James Devlin and Mary Harmon-Christian
DescriptionMary "Cathy" Harmon-Christian (55) talks to her friend James "Jim" Devlin (65) about his sickness with COVID, his spirituality, and his relationship.
Subject Log / Time Code
- James Devlin
- Mary Harmon-Christian
Recording LocationVirtual Recording
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00:07 My name is Kathy harmon-christian. My age is 55 years old. I am in Muscogee Creek territory of Decatur Georgia. Today's date is February 17th. 2021. My partner is Jim Devlin and they are my friend.
00:30 My name is Jim Devlin. I am 65 years old and I am in Peachtree Corners Georgia. Today is February 7th. 2021. Ash Wednesday. If you're Catholic, my partner is Kathy harmon-christian, although sometimes she likes to be called Kelly and she is one of my dearest friends and a incredible spiritual mentor to me and I love him dearly.
00:57 I'm sorry to jump in today's February 17th. Could you just go ahead and make that clear on the recording today is February 17th 2021?
01:13 Okay, Jim that was so nice of you. Oh my goodness. I just love it. What a wonderful thing to say you sweetheart. You got you throw me for a loop there. No. Well, I think it's fabulous that we get to record this on Ash Wednesday and you just spent this time together because we both know we've been anticipating being able to talk about your time having
02:13 I jumped right into the church. And of course, I got the whole conservative this that the other thing so is it gay man coming out divorcing all that kind of stuff and you know, I had to try to find my way. So I struggled a lot in the church, but and with the church, however, one of the things that I am that I don't struggle with is my connection with God and I I believe that
02:40 And I could be wrong in this I believe that most people that believe in God if they come to a Crossroads in their life it sometime and they pray it sometime will feel the overwhelming presence of God and however that presents itself and I've had that blessing a couple of times in my life when I was younger, but very significantly when I had
03:08 Don't let me just talk about that covid-19 ever experienced in my life. I did not have the congestion in the sneezing and you know coughing and all that kind of stuff but I did have is horrible body aches. I mean torturous body aches that were worse than rheumatoid arthritis and no matter what medication I took for the for the high fevers. It never affected the body pain coupled with that which makes it really really significant was I had insomnia so to have that kind of pain at night and lay there. I mean, the only thing you could do was pray, you know, I really I was sick enough to where I really needed somebody to care for me 24/7 without being in the hospital and that was my husband and we got to be home because the doctor believe the way we were set up and the medical kinds of things.
04:08 We had because our mothers have passed away and they that every medical device known to man with the exception of an oxygen tank. We had everything and they said okay will let you go home, but you need to report to us every day. So he dutifully I mean he was the best character in the world out there. I could have done better care anywhere in the hospital or anyting but anyways during the most difficult time and illness the serious illness. It started its first in a couple of days that it ramped up very quickly. So there is about 10 days during that two-and-a-half week. 2-3 week. That I was really sick spiking fevers over over a hundred and two and you know, you're sick when you have to look across from the look at your husband.
04:54 And say honey, do we need to talk about this because you know, it could have gone South is easily as I could have recovered. Right and my husband is practice. He has hell. Yeah, we covered all the financial stuff and I know everything I think it's okay. I'll take it like well, I'm really talk about the love. You. Okay. Well there was just brush that aside, but he's very practical, you know, it's so that's how he copes and so that's how we dealt with that. But I realized when you when you realize that you have to have that covers conversation with somebody that you love with all your heart, it's very humbling. And so that rammed right into mute getting really sick. My fever is my body aches were so intense that Jim would you know, he would rub my arms and my legs my back and my chest and you know his touch just touching alleviated the pain in the spot where his hands were and he would come and do that Kathy three and four times a day.
05:51 And he slept next to me every night, even though he could have gotten it anywhere mask every night just to be next to me while I was sick. So during probably the highest point of my sickness. And remember I said about everybody experiences God at some point in their lives and I believe that God presents himself to people when they are the most open. Well hello open. Can you be when you're laying there in pain and doing nothing but praying I mean I was praying for groups of people. I was praying for people by name and interesting ly during that process. I was praying for people whose names just came to me that I've never heard of first names and last names and the baby. I was delirious. I'm not sure but all's I felt was that I was supposed to pray for these people and that's what I did most of the night.
06:41 So one night as I was praying there was Jesus right next to the bed. I kid you not I looked at him. I said you were here. He said I'm always here.
06:55 He said I'm not going to leave you.
07:00 He said I will be by your side the whole time. I Am With You Always and he put his hand down on my hand. And when I look down it was Jim's hand on my mom and Aikido cheers. Just rolling down my face. I mean, I was just sobbing and during this time and this is really interesting. I am not a martyr nor do I care to be a martyr, but for some reason when I was in Jesus's company, I wanted to suffer more. I mean I said to him over and over again. I can take more suffering I can do more and it was almost like I wanted it so badly not even thinking about what the suffering but I just wanted to do it for him. And he said no. No, you don't have to do that. Everything is right where it should be and all that kind of stuff and then I just remembered that you only put it that when he put his hand on my hand and I was crying and stuff like that. I just I think I fell asleep and that's all I remember about that encounter.
08:00 Jesus other than the fact that I knew he was there and I knew that he wouldn't leave me and that he was with me through my husband Jim. He was caring for me through gym.
08:11 That was the first encounter the second encounter, which was
08:17 Even a little more intense was any way I could have been 2 days later. I have no idea how long it was but their Cheese's was again. And I said, oh you're here as far as eating rolls eyes and said, yeah, I told you the first time I was going to be here but yes, I'm here and as we were talking and I was praying and I was thanking him for being here and again asking him that I can suffer more if what I what can I do to help for the Salvation of souls? What can I do to help for the conversion of Sinners and I can do more and he was like No And then what happened was?
08:57 I was all of a sudden this light ever hear people when they die, they go into this light but it wasn't that kind of a life. It was a bright light and I realized when I was in that bright light that my mind and my heart were in exactly the same place and I am and that dawned on me because all too often in life. That's the problem with us. Is that our hearts and our minds just don't connect right and for me my heart and my mind were in the exact same place in this bright light with Jesus and I
09:32 I remember saying I can see I can see and Jesus said me what do you see? He said I can see all the people I can see all the people I could see into their souls. I can see the fire the light in their souls. I can see the murderer so I can see the child molesters. I can see the children that have suffered needlessly the women that have been abused people this sorrow in the hurt and the harm that we inflict on each other because we don't understand if we don't talk and we're so set in our ways and up sobbing again. Like I am now I made it just so you could see I could see so plainly to the soul of every human being and she just looked at me and he said
10:22 Every single human being is made in the image and likeness of God the Father everything is created in his Beauty your responsibility and the responsibility of all humanity is to look at each human being to their soul to know that that fire is in their soul and your job is to fan that flame that could be by a word of encouragement that could be by being silent and not speaking when you shouldn't that could be a hug that could be a letter that could be a variety of different things. The holy spirit will be with you and if they ask you they will give you what you're supposed to do and he said these Flame
11:09 Does not get extinguished until it's either extinguished by me or you do it yourself.
11:18 And I remembered asking him. What do you mean and he said when you distinct when you extinguish it yourself, it means that you don't want to be with me. You've just taken it upon yourself to should I ask him about people that commit suicide and stuff and he said that's a different story. He said those are emotional issues. I'm talking about people that you know just don't want have to do anything to do with with God and Eternity and all that kind of stuff and I said, okay and then I was back to the, you know, help me to help those people, you know. Give me more suffering cuz I'm not sure that I can do that on her. I mean it when I when I come out of this and he said just keep it in mind and tell people that when they look at another human being that they are seeing the face of God and that he created them perfectly.
12:13 So and then I remember kind of waking up or if that I went to sleep or whatever the case may be during that whole thing. I was just boo-hooing I was so you know, I'm an emotional iris mean. I'm one of those right there. I see I see a bird on the ground and it makes me cry. You do something like that. So I am sorry remember coming to on that and I remember
12:48 Thinking that I have to tell people about this and I don't know how to do that because I don't know that how many people would believe me or not and then I came to the place where I really didn't care what I really needed to do with his share with people that I love and that know me and then know that I would make this up and by virtue of the fact that I can still remember it vividly. I mean physically always leads me to believe that that is truthful right is typically things that aren't you know, you just kind of passed them off but I remember this so vividly that nothing will ever tell me that uses wasn't present those two times with me. They they are with me.
13:30 So, I've only shared it with a few people you being the third that I've shared it with.
13:40 I have not even shared it with my husband yet, but I will he's got to be in the right place. Otherwise, you know just like that conversation about you know, I'm really sick what's going to happen if he might be really practical blow me off. So I asked so that was that was my Coast experience and then from that no gym was still doing those things. I mean when it when Jesus put his hand on me and it was his hand. I realize that he was taking care of me and I mean Jim did unbelievable amounts of things to get me. Well, he did stay and he did tell me he said I was an excellent patient. Yay. Because you know, I was I couldn't do anything. I literally couldn't do anything. I was literally at the at the mercy of whoever was send it to me and I know I wouldn't have gotten a kind of care in a hospital. There's no way.
14:34 What an extraordinary you no experience you had and you said you've never been that sick, but just not I mean just like a your awareness of being really sick. You know that this is the first time and you're you know, we hear so many things about covid-19 serious. And so you're you're able to really sort of shit express your experience as it's really serious.
15:09 Vote for some people, you know, I had I was under the perception when I heard people say, oh, yeah. I had it was just like a little bit of a flu for a couple of days and it used to be really irritate me because I used to think they weren't taking it seriously and then after code that I thought God bless those people they've been blessed because they didn't have it any worse than they did right and they they were blessed as a result. So I you know, any other thing was as I was really on the fence about the vaccine because I know that it was tried and true or tested long enough and will now that I've had it covered. Ciolino question in my mind that I'm getting the vaccine because I never want to outside of my Jesus experience. I don't want to have to be that sick to experience them. Do you know what I mean? And with my gym experience I realize that
16:00 She's so tangible and all the people on I love you know what I mean? So tangible and you know, so that was kind of what my whole thing was with.
16:13 The Cove it was horrible thing.
16:17 Can I sorry Jim? Do you mind telling Kathy so just a bit about the chronology what when did you know you had?
16:58 Exit test so to speak on February 5th is when I was cleared of covid-19.
17:45 And that's totally knew since covid-19.
18:14 Vegetarian my friend go back to your your experience with Jesus and have you ever had an experience like that before? Yes, but differently in that was I was in therapy with her with a Catholic priest who I love and adore love and adore and he's what kind of brought me out as a healthy gay person. So to speak I was married at the time. My kids were young. I was in therapy with face to drive 45 minutes to an hour to him every week and and then go to work and he would we were together for about three years and he brought me through the process of it's okay to him that you're gay. You know, your wife probably already knows although I you know, I think she may have suspected but not because of anything.
19:14 I done but because of what other people might have said to her, but I did you ask the question is is that I can remember leaving therapy one morning driving in my car and feeling this entire presence of light light and that God was just it just in an envelope me while I was driving I burst into tears. I pulled over to the side of the road and I felt absolutely nothing but incredible joy to be who I was and the words that I heard were Jim. I love you Just the Way You Are
19:51 You need to live your truth. That was another really significant time when I knew that there was no question that God was there and he loves me just the way I was now. I wish I'd been able to carry that forward in my life because you know, I still want you to self hatred and all that kind of stuff and the people are hurt and all this kind of stuff but you know God's always there waiting for me to turn and come back. So yeah, I mean an end. So now that you've had this incredible
20:22 Covid experience and he's too incredible experiences with Jesus and your you know, kind of trying to get back into regular live. How do you think you'll carry that with you or how are you carrying it with you? Well, I think I told you that, you know, when you look at every human being and you see God, it's the first thing I tried to think of every time I encounter person especially somebody that whose user philosophies might not be the same as mine that I don't have to Bare my soul to every individual that I meet but I can be kind and compassionate and loving and recognize that they are on a journey to and that the hard part is to what can I do to Fan the flame and sometimes it's just listening being you know in it in that one-on-one in a relationship. So that's my goal and you know part of that is recognizing your own shortcomings and able to put them in check.
21:22 You know before you encounter another person right about why did you think about the Blessed Mother when you because I would have I guess I would have just assumed that maybe she would have come to you because you have such a Devotion to her.
21:42 That that's a good point. My spirituality is very merry and very much loved the Blessed Mother but for some reason over the past year, you know, Mary's always said, you know, the prayers aren't for me that the prayers are the cheese is direct all your prayers to Jesus. So when I pray the rosary or something like that, which I do off and I'm really thinking about Jesus and I feel this closest to Jesus that I've never felt, you know, so early on we were my coming-out story. God was just God there is no he wasn't Jesus. He was a dolly Spirit. He wasn't Mariana buces God. This was clearly two instances with Jesus. Now, I would have loved for married to be there. But I think that she likes the fact that I continue to pray the rosary know that kind of stuff and I am directing my prayers to Jesus. I think she likes that.
22:42 Because that's what she tells us to do direct all your prayers to Jesus. Don't worship me. He's the one you need to be worshiping and praying too but sounds like you like that. Well, I think it's about praying though in the open this but you know, he came to me at the time Kathy that I was helpless literally physically mentally emotionally. I mean and what do you make of that? What do you make him fly that would be the time and it could have been different for different people. I think that when we are our most vulnerable is when we are most open and so we're we're okay with hearing the voice of God.
23:30 Anytime, you know stories and I could tell story, you know, people that have talked to God they know that they've just been spoken to but it's that open. You know that The Tell-Tale sign of a really spiritual human being in my mind is when you're in their presence you feel nothing but peace nothing but peace God often. I mean if you look at history and so often you see st. Francis after the you know, he was laid up for over a year from being shot in the Crusades and that's what transformed his life is his his having to be quiet and still and listen and I also think about and I think about my brother who when you were saying that I made the direct connection because even though he's paralyzed list, he can feel pain as much of his life is he can't sleep he's counted every single infinitesimal water spot on the ceiling of his room.
24:30 Yeah, he doesn't sleep much and so I do understand that notion of body aches. And I mean, I think it can almost be you know, a it's almost an out-of-body experience to be in that much pain, right? Yeah. That's so interesting what you talked about that in that moment. You felt like you could you wanted to suffer even more if you know what that was about it was surprising to me too because I can tell you I do not enjoy thing people with people will tell you that you know, they think I have a very low pain tolerance and I'll say I don't but they think that I do and but I'm not one that would really like to suffer but there was something about in each of those moments that it was almost like a gift. It was almost like I wanted to because I want I loved him so much and I wanted to do what I thought he wanted me to give him and there was nothing about my being that
25:30 Reserved or held back. It was I was all-in if you need for me to suffer more. Please give it to me. I'll do it. I promise I I can handle it and all this kind of stuff which you know surprise me honestly, but I have to say that I'm happy that Jesus said no.
25:47 Cuz I think you have suffered a lot and I don't think I don't think he wants you to take on more than you have. I think that was a beautiful a beautiful message.
25:59 Yeah, and it's but still I still think to myself that I haven't suffered enough. I look at people in the world and I haven't suffered nothing in comparison to what people know how people in the world have suffered and I think how can I make their lives easier? And the only way I know how to do that is to pray for them right now that seems to be the way to communicate with God the best and you know, if you're a bit about it and then indiligent to discipline to doing it, I think that God reward you. You know, we don't see what God does that mean my little data sheet for my road. I did I sub been so very blessed in my life with just blessed in many ways. And one of the lines I put in there was that I've been blessed in many ways that I don't even know.
26:49 You know if we can't see all the supernatural spiritual kinds of things and we can't see all the protections that we may have gotten so I'm sure there's many ways that all of every human being has been helped but they don't know at all so a little bit unless it's very powerful and I'm glad you were able to share it. So thank you and your coming-out story. And so can you share that again?
27:23 Okay. So am I coming out story? It was really an interesting thing, you know Irish Catholic. My dad was in the Navy I got married had kids because that's what I was supposed to do and I don't mean to be rude or crude or anything like that. But when you're young you can really have sex with anybody. Let's say it I mean and can I would say because you're young and your body is doing all this stuff, right? So I thought to myself, you know at one point I thought about being a priest and then it was I learned that couldn't have sex. I thought that was completely out of the question.
28:13 I came to the place in my relationship ending take keep this in mind. I love my wife. I still love my wife to death. We had two beautiful kids together. She and her husband who I am introduce them to are some of my dearest and closest friends. Like I just talked to her yesterday for about 45 minutes. So we're very close. Right? And I love that that you introduced your ex-wife French Press friends now her husband remarried and they've been married for 30 years in the hole coming out process. We were going through all this marrying kind of learned of you know, she didn't know that I was gay, but she thought maybe I was have I was a slut let's put it that way and I was gay it was in a marriage with a woman really wanted to be with man. So I ain't ashamed to say it. I've offered it in confession. I was a slut I slept with everybody and it's amazing that even lived but does she thought something was going on and then she started hearing gossip and although
29:13 Kinds of things put two and two together and so through my therapy process. I remember sitting on her front porch and Maryland and coming out to her and she said I know we both cried we hugged each other. It was very humbling and very loving and beautiful thing and then you know, so we kind of decided we separated bedrooms and then kind of went down this path is moving toward divorce and what we can do with the kids. We even got therapy to for the kids family counseling for so that if they started hearing things, you know, they were young there only likes 10 and 6 if they would know kind of how to what to say and what not to say or what they thought and so that I have to tell my parents that I did and my dad said, well, I don't understand it. But I love you anyway, and my mother said, you know, I think I've always known I said, well, of course, you've always known I was to watch you put your not that I want to get dressed up in women's clothes, but I used to watch her put her makeup on with destination like this. Like wow I need
30:13 Well that and you know that I think I've always known so so it kind of started going down that road. I started coming out to people some people received it. Well, some people didn't receive it. Well the interesting thing about my kids by son Shawn who is 6 when we had the conversation with him. He said he said well I'm gay too because he said it's a long day too because I love my friend Casey, you know, so, you know who is just cute ski thing and then it's my kids got older and Mary and I were separated. This is really interesting to when I ask my kids about Mary and I are getting divorced. Both of them said no, it wasn't really a big deal for us. We knew that you both loved us very much. And now we had other people that were given a Time Rush us. That is precious. Okay, so we have I have to ask you how did you meet Jim?
31:10 Okay, kind of his CDs story. We met at a bar. I actually met him in a bar at the wee hours of the night. I was actually there with my ex-partner and he walks in our eyes met and we did not leave each other side until 4 a.m. We learned about cheese out of each other's lives. I like the fact that he Not only was incredibly handsome but that he was Italian that he was raised. He's a cradle Catholic and that he was very much into his Italian Heritage. I very much into my Irish heritage and was a cradle Catholic and we had a lot of that stuff in common and he lived in Florida at the time and was playing at the Opera at the Fox Theater. And I remember when he left he told me about a story about his acts that just got up in the middle of the night and disappeared with his dog and everything and Jim never heard hide nor hair. He could have been murdered for all he know so he went back to work in Florida and I sent him a dozen yellow roses cuz I told him at one point during the conversation.
32:10 I said you just need some old-fashioned wooing. So I sent to a work I sent him a dozen yellow roses and I stand it run on the car lyrics
32:22 Happy birthday is the office was like who is mr. Wu what did you do to me? Okay. Well, then that's how it started. Then we were on the phone every night together. He lived ironically enough to miles for my sister lived in Tampa. So thanks get we've been out Halloween Thanksgiving. I was their Christmas I was there and then finally after about a year. I asked him if he wanted move in the so and so this was the thing that your lovely husband was not supposed to tell you because this was a slight little trick because we asked him how he met you and so I wanted to ask you how you met him and I am so touched that your stories match up really well and and on top of that he added you both added detail to the real to the story and it's just lovely cuz you both remember it very fully and very clearly especially about you lie.
33:22 Eyes and you were you know with each other the rest of the night. He said the other folks because it was Halloween we're wearing costumes and you two weren't he added that detail but oh my gosh how beautiful you really are were absolutely meant to be together and I like going out on Halloween to gay bars because of the dryer, you know, they get wasted they have these big head dresses on and it be tilted in this way. And if you tilt in that way and the next thing, you know, there's nothing like a good drag queen. I'm telling you. I love a good drag queen gym. That is so wonderful. And now you've been together 20 years. You've been through a lot. You've been through a lot of a child and that's a lot of people died in our lives starting with my grandmother is starting in 2003, you know, we got together in 2011. So starting in 2000-2001 in starting in 2003 in my family start.
34:22 Finding his family died within five years 8 p.m. It only child and how do you guys have cared for all your mother just died recently after she lived with you for 8 years.
34:36 Just extraordinary and what was her name again? And
34:46 So recent I mean, how do you how do you feel about that now when my mother and I were so close growing up. I could have had a better mother. However when she got older and my dad started declining and they almost like changed roles my dad, why was not close to I got very close to the end of his life my mother who is I was always close to oh my God, she was a witch at the end of her life and we were just combative. But when she died I went it was unexpected. She did died home though. Thank God. It was so unexpected after they came and took her away. I laid in her bed for 2 days sobbing.
35:22 Because of the relationship we had at the end of her life and all I could do is apologize and I could hear her say to me. I love you Timmy, you know, I love you and she knows that I love her and you just use just the circumstances. You know, I'm taking care of. Nobody can prepare you for taking care of parent. It's you know didn't even see each other for so many Christmases because he was going to take care of his mother and you were taking care of your mother. I mean, it's pretty extraordinary, you know, and I just you know, I feel like sometimes I just want people to understand that for whatever they might feel about gay people. You're the heart heartbeat of our church most of the time. I mean, honestly the devotion the love and the way in which you keep a church-going in spite of the persecutions it's often persecution within the chair.
36:22 Search and then how you care for your parents, you know, I mean most of us to be quite honest. They're our parents are in, you know, or are not care for at home.
36:36 And you know, my my my dad my dad Jim became my dad's best friend for you. I mean literally it my dad would tell you that when things are really bad if they're place up in Alpharetta dad code if my mother was really being verbally abusive with him. He would say all with Jim and I are supposed to go to the movies of my mother know you're not no you're not so she would call him up on the phone said, you know dunk said that you were supposed to go to movie stuck with my dad's nickname dunk and Jim would say. Oh, yeah, I forgot to tell him I'll be there in 15 minutes and that was code for him to get him out of the house and they became very very close their house and when my relatives talk about what an asshole my dad was Jim would come right to his defense. That is not the man that I knew.
37:22 And it wasn't the man that I do with the end of his life either cuz my brother sister and I looked at each other one time and said, where is he then all of our lives change, you know, depending on what you know, and how interesting to that whatever your parents both experienced that they kind of flipped at the end. That's so interesting. But you knew that cuz you were with them, you know, I think that's extraordinary and an even now, you know, one of the things that this time of Covetous Shen is the four of us. So Ginger you me and your husband. We have created our own church we have and the first of the month we try to go to the cemetery to go see gingers husband Stuart to go see who died this year your mother who died this year a neighbor of mine son who died 12 years ago and you know that we've created these New Traditions that have come up in this time of of covid bringing devotions.
38:23 To our lives in an even more personal way and I think and I just love that you a detail that I think is so important when we first went out to the cemetery out at Mount Vernon Cemetery there you brought a little dust pan in a broom and you use sweep auger and kind of cut around each of the graves and you bring your own water bottles and you'd bring different flowers for the season and how we go and we would pray the whole Rosary at your son John Dublin's grave.
39:05 And we go over to Ginger's husband's Stewart Cassian and her whole family and pray there and we passed different priests, you know along the way that are buried along the way and we go over to to Kenny wieners grave and just just how all this kind of this communion of Souls and kind of praying over these folks and and I would say so much of that is your devotion and your your practice of the faith and I just I just feel it so important to shout out to the to the beautiful gay men like you and like gem who are so faithful to each other so loving and bring so much goodness into the world. And and what a shame that so many people miss that what a shame what a shame so so like I said, you've been blessed, but you also are a blessing
40:06 Your name your your memory your your life is a blessing to me and I want you to know that and I am so I know you are my found family.
40:17 You're my sound family and I am honored to have two wonderful men both named Jim who are my my friend Jim Joplin from our Spanish class. You will always now be gym Dublin instead of gym Dublin and and ginger and you and me. So I love you and I respect you and I am so glad we've had this time together.
40:43 Me to Jim. Do you mind telling Kathy what made you decide to go get tested for covet?
40:53 We wanted to get tested anyway, because it was going around and you know, I was feeling a little nostalgic, you know, a key and stuff like that. And Jim said well why we just go get a go fit test and and we just it was just time to make it happen.
41:09 Jewel so if you don't mind you tell Kathy so what did you feel when when you got that positive test what was going through your head?
41:18 I was a little nervous. Okay. So when I got the Cove salts, I was positive. I was nervous from the standpoint that okay. We don't really know what's going to transpire, you know, so this is when we're leading up to me having the conversation with Jim sitting in the bed or do we need to have a conversation about this me coming from a very serious place of you know, I could go south free quickly and die right as people. I'm 65, so I'm not the most hundred percent healthy person. So I was kind of nervous honestly and that it got really bad and I couldn't think of anything else but how I felt then I have the Jesus experiences. So it kind of any anxiety I had about dying kind of like went out the window as if you were going to die. I just
42:10 The very first time and he said not not yet. You said no. I'm going to be here with you. Wow. That's so cool.