James Johnson and Nicole Johnson

[00:03] NICOLE JOHNSON: My name is Nicole Johnson. I am 48 years old. The date is April 15, 2022. I am in the StoryCorps virtual recording booth, and I'm here with my father, James Johnson.

[00:26] JAMES JOHNSON: My name is James Johnson. I'm 82 years old. Today's date is April 15, 2022. I'm in the storycorps virtual recording booth, and I'm here with my daughter. I'm sorry. I'm here alone.

[00:52] NICOLE JOHNSON: All right. Okay, so I'll start with my questions. Dad. So my first question for you is, can you tell me about where you grew up and what it was like?

[01:11] JAMES JOHNSON: I grew up right here in Beaufort, Georgia. I was born here, graduated from high school here, and I had a happy childhood. I had lots of friends, and I never regretted growing up in this small town. It was a wonderful childhood, and I'm just happy that I was able to experience this small town atmosphere.

[01:59] NICOLE JOHNSON: That's great. What are some memories that stand out to you from your childhood? Do you have, like, a favorite memory that you can share?

[02:12] JAMES JOHNSON: Well, my favorites are really my childhood with all of my brothers. There were seven of us. We all grew up together in the same household, and we just had. And we were all boys, seven boys. And we just had a happy relationship and had lots of fun growing up all boys together.

[02:41] NICOLE JOHNSON: How has your life been different than what you'd imagined?

[02:51] JAMES JOHNSON: Well, going into the military made all the difference in the world for me. It gave me a chance to travel, see things that I never dreamed that I would ever be able to see. Traveled halfway around the world overseas a couple of times. I met lots of people and friends from other states and countries, and it was just a wonderful life. And if I had it to do all over again, I think I would do the same thing.

[03:30] NICOLE JOHNSON: Okay. Well, speaking about the military, when did you enlist?

[03:41] JAMES JOHNSON: A friend and I went down in 1957 after we graduated from high school and took the test for enlistment. And I passed, and he didn't. And he was going to come along. He was eligible to retest six months later, which he never did. So I went on into the service. I left Beaufort and went to Lachlan Air Force Base, Texas. That gave me my first opportunity to fly on a plane. And so at Lachlan Air Force Base, I went into basic training July, 1957. Okay.

[04:24] NICOLE JOHNSON: How did you tell your family and friends that you were joining the military?

[04:31] JAMES JOHNSON: Well, first of all, I had to get my parents permission to join. There wasn't very many good jobs, nice jobs right here in Beaufort. And rather than to grow up living the same life that I've seen others live right here in Beaufort I decided to follow my brother's footsteps and go into the air force. He went in a couple of years ahead of me, and he stayed two years and got out. And as he was about to get out, I went into the service. My parents was proud and happy that I decided to enlist in the Air force because a lack of good jobs, decent jobs right here in Beaufort. So they were very happy that I went in the air Force. And I went into basic training, and I completed that and left all of my friends behind. And we all moved in different directions. And I came back home for a few days vacation, and then I was assigned, reassigned to Patrick Air Force Base Space, Florida. So as far as my parents were concerned, they were happy. They were happy that I enlisted in the air force. Okay.

[06:14] NICOLE JOHNSON: And so when you said it was your brother, you're talking about Uncle Clyde, right?

[06:20] JAMES JOHNSON: Yes. Clyde went in. He was the old. He was the oldest of the seven siblings, and he joined the air force for two years and got out. And I decided that I would also join the air force.

[06:41] NICOLE JOHNSON: And how did you imagine military life before you joined? And how did your perceptions change after you joined?

[06:52] JAMES JOHNSON: Well, I got some clues from my older brother, Clyde, and also two or three guys that was in school with me had joined the army and Navy. And I would see them when they came home on furlough. I would talk with them and get some clues as to what to expect in the military. And that was it. I went on into the military, and I lived a good life in the military.

[07:35] NICOLE JOHNSON: What was your basic training like, dad?

[07:42] JAMES JOHNSON: Basic training was tough, totally different from what I expected. I can now look back and see what they were trying to accomplish with the new recruits in basic training. It was very rigid, time wise. Everything had to be on time. Everything had to look alike. It was just. It took some getting used to. But once I got used to that way of life, it made it a lot easier for me. And I was able to. I was able to do well in the military.

[08:42] NICOLE JOHNSON: Can you describe a funny moment from boot camp or something that you can remember that was pretty funny from your experiences in boot camp?

[08:55] JAMES JOHNSON: Well, I can remember one time as a new recruit. It seems like a few times I was always late when we have to go out for reveille in the morning in the formation. It seemed like I was among the last few to go outside. And I remember one time the training instructor told me that if I'm late again, he was going to. Well, he didn't say it like this, but he said he's going to kick me and all the way down the stairs. And consequently, after, after that time, I was never late anymore.

[09:48] NICOLE JOHNSON: You were talking about boot camp, and I know that you are a Vietnam War veteran. Can you talk a little bit about how you told your loved ones that you were going to be going to Vietnam?

[10:10] JAMES JOHNSON: That was tough. The air force is a laid back organization among all of the armed forces. The air force is probably one of the easier branches to go into. So consequently, I was expecting to go to Vietnam. When I was notified of Boeing, I was expected to go over and really not see much activity. However, with my luck, I was selected to go into a combat engineering unit. So therefore, unlike the air force, I had to get combat training. So I went to Forbes Air Force Base in Kansas, and I got 16 weeks of combat training for combat engineers. This engineering group was called Red Horse. And I got 16 weeks of combat training for Red Horse. And then I was in a squadron of 400 people. There were six squadrons, 400 men each. Two squadron went to Thailand, and four squadron was in Vietnam. So I was in 823rd Red Horse, and we ship out as a unit with 400 men. Went to Bien Hoa Air base in South Vietnam. And the majority of the time over there, I was in detachment of 40 people at Da Nang Airbase, north south Vietnam. And unfortunately, it was not a great experience. There was times when I just didn't think I was going to live to come back to Beaufort Georgia. So I can't say any great things about being in Vietnam, except that some of my comrades was. I became very good friends with some of them, and even today, we are still in touch with each other.

[12:42] NICOLE JOHNSON: That's great. Can you, in speaking about that, can you talk a little bit, maybe about someone you served with that you remember very well? And what can you tell us about them?

[13:01] JAMES JOHNSON: Well, at this late stage in our lives, some of them have already passed on. But when we left Vietnam and coming back to the States, three or four of us were all assigned to the same air force base here in the States, Minot air force Base, North Dakota. And we became pretty good friends. And one of them is still alive today, and he lives in Roanoke, Virginia. And we stay in touch by phone on a weekly basis. Another friend of mine, of all of them, this friend and I became very, very close, and he was from South Carolina. I met his wife when we came back from Vietnam, and I never saw her or him again. I never heard from him. I went online looking for him. I tried every way I could to get in touch with him. And finally, through the air force, I was able to find out that he passed on in 1990. In 1991.

[14:30] NICOLE JOHNSON: Wow.

[14:31] JAMES JOHNSON: I have tried. I have tried since then to contact his family, but I was very. I was not successful, and I will still try today if I just had a clue as to where they are located.

[14:50] NICOLE JOHNSON: Yes. Can you talk a little bit about some of the fun things you and your friends did while you were in Vietnam? What were some of the. I guess, some of the activities that you can remember? Did you play any pranks on each other, anything like that?

[15:17] JAMES JOHNSON: No, not really. We just had fun joking and laughing and talking together. Sometimes on the weekends, we would have cookouts and drink beer and talk, and that was about it. That was the most fun we had, was just being together when we had leisure time. It was not a fun place to be. My life was threatened too many times, and I was concerned. I was more concerned about getting back home alive rather than just having fun all the time.

[16:05] NICOLE JOHNSON: Yeah. How did you stay in touch with your family while you were in Vietnam?

[16:17] JAMES JOHNSON: Well, unlike today, whereas with cell phones and skyping and everything, troops are able to stay in touch with their family, but during that time period, the only thing I could do was write letters and receive, write and receive letters, and that was how I stayed in touch. No phone calls, nothing but mail. And during each day, I was very happy to, during mail call, and they would call out your name, that you had a letter or something from home. And my mother used to send me cakes and cookies and all kinds of things.

[17:05] NICOLE JOHNSON: Oh, wow.

[17:06] JAMES JOHNSON: And I was newly, newly married in Vietnam at the time I went to Vietnam, and I also received a lot of, we call them care packages from my wife, Dolores, while I was in Vietnam.

[17:31] NICOLE JOHNSON: Yeah. Dad, can you talk a little bit about how you felt coming home from combat and what that was like.

[17:49] JAMES JOHNSON: Coming home? It was different. It was almost like I didn't have anything in common with the people at home that I used to know. I was happy to see them and we would talk, but I just didn't have the rapport with them that I had before I went to Vietnam. And consequently, even today, it's still the same way. I don't have any local friends that I communicate with very well, and I see people along the street, some I know and some I don't know. I just throw up my hand or say hi to them and go about my business.

[18:53] NICOLE JOHNSON: And why do you think that's the case? Do you think it's just because of the experiences that you had while you were over there and just having a different perspective on things now or, you know, what do you think is? I guess, sort of the reason for that?

[19:16] JAMES JOHNSON: Consequently, I think the reason is because they did not experience what I did, so therefore, I don't have in common with him. However, there is a Vietnam vet right here in Beaufort that he and I are very good friends, and we talk on the phone sometime on a daily basis.

[19:39] NICOLE JOHNSON: Wow.

[19:40] JAMES JOHNSON: And I get along great with him, but as far as the other people around, they didn't experience what I did, so I really don't have a whole lot to talk with him about.

[19:51] NICOLE JOHNSON: Yeah.

[19:52] JAMES JOHNSON: But my Vietnam friend and I, we get along great, have a lot in common, and I just like being around him or communicating with him.

[20:04] NICOLE JOHNSON: Yeah.

[20:05] JAMES JOHNSON: I think he and I both have post traumatic stress disorders, and I can communicate with him a lot better than talking to civilians that don't have a clue as to what I have gone through.

[20:33] NICOLE JOHNSON: You know, dad, there's actually. I was hoping you could talk a little bit about. There's a story that I remember you telling me about your return from Vietnam that I was hoping that you could talk a little bit about. And you. I remember you telling me you came home, and I can't remember if you were boarding a train or boarding a bus, but that you still had to get to the back of the bus, or you still had to get to the back of the train after you had gone and, you know, fought for your country. Do you remember that story that you shared with me?

[21:13] JAMES JOHNSON: I don't remember that particular story, but I do remember those instances where I did have to buoy the back of the bus just because of my skin color. That also did not sit well with me after risking my life and at times not knowing whether I was going to come back home alive. I did not like the idea of having to go to the back of the bus just for a ride, which, to me, did not make any sense whatsoever. And the enforcement people that was enforcing that rule didn't have a clue as to what I had gone through. Right now, I can't remember. I can remember in one particular instance when I was on a bus, and I was the only. I don't think there was another vacant seat beside me other than the one beside me on the whole bus. And a white lady got on the bus and came and asked if I mind that she sat there, and I said no. And she sat down, and the bus driver stopped the bus and came back and said, no, no. No, no, we're not going to have this. Says you sit back there, and then when one of them back there can come and sit up here. There was white people behind me at the time, and so he asked me to sit back there in the back with one, where one of them was sitting and asked one of them to come up and sit next to the white lady on the bus. Those were discrepancies that I encountered and about every southern state in the United States. Only in the northern states, when I travel in the northern states did I see less discrimination than I encountered down in the southe.

[24:00] NICOLE JOHNSON: So, dad, I wanted to kind of switch gears a little bit, and you've kind of talked a little bit about this after, you know, coming back home, you know. And I wanted to talk a little bit about what it was like when you left the military and you transitioned back into civilian life. And I know you kind of talked about how it was really hard for you to connect to other people, you know, especially having served in a war and coming back and what it was like to try to connect to other people and build friendships and things. When did you leave the military, and kind of what was that process like for you?

[24:46] JAMES JOHNSON: I retired from the military in August of 1980, but I came back home. I had enough leave time available that I came back home almost 90 days prior to my effective retirement date. So I was still on military payroll during that time period until I retired. It was pretty difficult to come back here because to me, everything was different. I was. Had lived my life in the military. I grew up in the military and had a. Got married and had a family while I was in the military. And coming back to Beaufort, Georgia, where the people having the mindset that they did when I left Beaufort it was totally different for me. And, yes, I did have a difficult time coping and getting back into the groove of living here in Beaufort. I came back with the intentions of going to work for General Motors, which at the time, the car weren't selling very well, and they asked me to find something else to do until later, and they would call me. So I decided to use part of my GI Bill and go to school, and I studied industrial electricity and graduated. And during that time period, I was able to get a job with Bell south, working in the headquarters building as an electrician. A very good job, very good paying job, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I still missed my military environment, even though some of the people that I worked with were prior military still miss my life in the military. It took years for me to get back into the groove and feel more at home as a civilian.

[27:27] NICOLE JOHNSON: Wow. So how do you think your time in the military, how do you think it's impacted you? It sounds like it's had a very positive influence on you. But also, on the other hand, it also sounds like, too, that you kind of struggled to adapt after being in the military.

[27:50] JAMES JOHNSON: In the military, as a black man, I had problems because of. During the time period, discrimination was running rampant. My promotions. I was lacking promotion due to being black. Even after I retired from the military, with all of my experience in training, I had problems even at Bell south as a black man getting promotions in the military. The white guys were being promoted, and I was waiting years for a promotion at Bell south as a civilian, the same thing. I was trained and passed tests for a higher status, but it was denied to me. They did not admit to it being discrimination, but the white people were being promoted, and I wasn't. Even though I was more qualified, I still had to wait till my time came for a promotion. So it was just a bad experience. My whole life, all the way up to today, I have experienced nothing but racism. When I came back to Beaufort wanted to build my home, I applied for loans. All the loan institutions would tell me, well, Mister Johnson, you make enough money, but they've always come up with a but. And it went on and on. So I went to one location and I was able to obtain a loan. But it was a loan that it was the only loan I could get. I didn't want the loan. I didn't like it, but I had to take it because that was the only one I could get. So it took three years for me to get a loan to build my house. And it was just tough adjusting out here. Even though discrimination was in the military, it wasn't. Well, I need to back up. I was going to say it wasn't as bad as out here, but actually it was because 23 years in the military, um, I should have retired at a higher position than what I held when I retired. Yeah, but it was only because of discrimination that I didn't obtain a higher grade. I retired as a master sergeant, which was great for the short time that I had to struggle to make as much ring as I could. Master sergeant was great, but all of those years prior to my struggling was when I was not being promoted. And that created problem for me to have to struggle to try to make as much as I could right on up to the time I retired.

[31:48] NICOLE JOHNSON: Right? Well, dad. And sort of thinking about that and. And I know we'll be wrapping up our interview here. What are your hopes for the future? You've seen a lot. You've done a lot. What are you. What are you hoping for? For the future for your children and your grandchildren and great grandchildren, all of that.

[32:17] JAMES JOHNSON: I'm just hoping that they're able to live in a world where they won't have to put up with the discrimination that I've had to put up with. And hopefully they will be able to advance and live a life like God intended for them to do. Things are changing, but it's not changing fast enough. And if things had been right from the beginning, it sure would be a much better, different world than what we live in today. So, as far as my kids and grandkids, I just hope that they don't have to live through the situation like I did, and hopefully things will go much smoother and better for them and their kids.

[33:25] NICOLE JOHNSON: Yeah. Well, thank you for that. And I'm really glad that we've been able to have this conversation. I know that we've talked about a lot of these things, but all of the sacrifices and everything that you've done have meant the world to me. And I certainly know I wouldn't be where I am if it wasn't for you and everything that you've done and all that you've been through. So thank you for that, dad.

[33:54] JAMES JOHNSON: Well, I'm very proud of you and my children and my grandkids, and I wish all of you well and just continue doing what you're doing. I think you're doing great. And you and your family, me and my son and his family, I just wish the best for all of you. And I love all of you.

[34:20] NICOLE JOHNSON: Love you, too. Thank you, dad.

[34:24] JAMES JOHNSON: Okay, sweetheart.