Janne Shirley and Dorothy Chin

00:04 My name is Dorothy chin. I'm 56 years old and today is Friday January 31st, 2020 and we're in Santa Monica California. My interview partner is Jan Shirley and she is my heart mother.

00:24 My name is Jan Shirley. I'm 81 years old and today's date is Friday January 31st, 2020 and we're in Santa Monica California. The name of my interview partner is Dorothy chin my heart daughter.

00:42 Okay, so Jen we met when I first came to the United States with my family and I was eight years old and you volunteer to teach English to my mother we came from Hong Kong and we were in San Francisco. And this was in 1971. So you were with this program called English in action and can you can you tell me a little bit about that how that program worked in?

01:09 Well, I was living in San Francisco for just a little while. As you know, I came from Los Angeles and then was up in San Francisco for a couple of years teaching and then knows about time to can I change directions? So I decided I needed to do something more in life. And I looked at heart English in action and I said well, let me sign up for this and there I was given a family and it was happened to be your family my beloved and it was it was a you know, a wonderful experience basically English in action was to take the person that you were tutoring out into the community. So you can go to different the market and you say you know, this is an apple from their good person would say this in there and then you know, so and then you'd go to the another store and so it was a series of just kind of

02:01 Street walking. Well, not really sweet Walking Dead the community and what the words were in in action and what they would use so I remember the cool thing about that was like you're saying, you know, you take my mom to Golden Gate Park and things like that and eventually we all wanted to go right. So the whole family would want to tag tag along because it seem like fun and I remember like I knew it was I was just going to see Serena chin. So I was like expecting to meet one person and so I get there and kind of a little story. I don't know if you remember cuz you were just a child but I go in and there is your mom, but with no words, but lots of laughter, you know it at the time like I was a little nervous to and appearing around the the corner of this wall in your apartment. I see another little head in and it was your dad.

03:01 And your dad says me too me too, and I'm like, okay. Well someone to Fort okay and then all of a sudden I see another little head pop around and she goes

03:12 YouTube and I said okay come on for months and I've left three and then there was another little head popping around and then another and I think this had was yours and you know all the pretty soon before I even left the very first day. I had the entire family and there we were going to go out English in action outside. So we were quite the scene, you know, five of us and me six of us going out into the community talking about apples or trees or boats or whatever. We we came in contact with so I always wanted to ask you what would you like to do? You know sort of take this immigrant family under your wing, you know to teach them English but not only that to teach them about American culture. Like what was it like for you?

04:00 You know, I never I really haven't given that much thought except, you know that I came across this wonderful family my family your family, but really just coming into this family that I can give the culture much thought that we were so different in culture, but then it became clear that I was teaching you things about a land in the country that you didn't know about. So I just think it was something that was just went to my heart and opened it up and it was it was quite a beautiful experience, but that's really interesting because that's the way I think of it right? I think that I think of you as our gateway to American culture, but you didn't think of it that way. I mean, I remember one of things I remember is that we saw July 4th fireworks with you for the first time. So that was an American thing and it was down here in San Ramon.

05:00 Actually, yeah, that's interesting. Yes. I actually tell you the truth and forgotten that but I do remember when we came to after being in San Francisco, then I left him a little pretty maybe six months after we met and came back to while I was living in Encino at that time. So it came back to our family home in Encino and invited had invited you all down for a little tour of Southern California. So it was in that was in itself an experience as you probably know because you were driving with the family all your family you driving down the coast and so our experience at in Encino was very interesting for me because the home that I was in was my parents home and they had a pool and so I I said to you know, I said well, do you know hey let's do you know

06:00 Swimming, you know is what you do and if we are already liking you no cable. Let's go swimming but you know still limited English. Let me say that remembering that and so off you guys went and for some reason I came back because I had a phone call or something that I left the pool and pretty soon. I see your dad coming running up and goes down up down up and I'm like what I'm on the phone system is down down up and no no no, no just a minute. And so then I go I think it's a little serious so I run down and Shirley the four little chin kids are down up and one of you has made it to the side and another one is kind of struggling to get to the side and your sister and was in the middle of the pool and not quite making it to the side. So I guess I have to just jump in here and do something which I did jumped in and of course I saved because I had CPR or whatever or tumor Red Cross I pushed her to the

07:00 Why didn't they are always well, but that was an experience in a moment of our our relationship that I will hold dearly. American but we didn't get that until I don't think that there was even a depth of pool unlevel and you could walk in and still he just jumped in and it was 8 Theater 9 ft deep, right? We didn't know how to swim in Hong Kong. We didn't we didn't really have that. So but I remember that summer and it was our first my first vacation, you know ever I think I was about 10 and I remember we stayed at the Pacific Sands Motel which is right down the street from here over that yes, I do the sign is still there, but I think the motel is gone cuz you know, it's one of these old Fast Signs and yeah, so it's still there, but then the next summer we came again and this time yeah this time you took us even to San Diego and Tijuana.

08:00 You spent a lot of time with us and I always thought you know, I don't know anyone who would do that, you know who piso open to taking a whole family, you know down to do all the stuff. I mean, I don't think this is a question but you deserve claim that says as your family and you know, it was very true. I mean it was just I didn't have children at the time. And so I think it was something I just opened my heart to your family and you became my family. So it was it's a beautiful relationship one that I cherish. And so that's probably what I did, you know, I mean what we did and that's what you do with family right come back and yeah, but you only we were only together in the same city for six months. So it was I mean you didn't you didn't plan that did you order and we just happened to her plan?

09:00 No plan to have us forever. Have me forever in your life. I mean now, you know, it's like almost 50 years later, you know, and we're sitting here.

09:11 No, I didn't plan it but just happened and I know I certainly never thought of that is anything that you plan I don't think you can.

09:23 Projector project something like that. I mean you just accept it and then if you know your heart opens your heart opens, and that's just a Grayson and a blessing and I think that that's what happened with us. You know, I mean, you just came into my heart and we shared many moments of laughter and struggle and living and I just think that that's what happened, you know, so your heart expands and you accepted you and Bryson

09:54 That's why you're my heart daughter.

09:57 So now we all speak English. Obviously, I even my parents speak English and my sister and and and I have phds and you came to both are graduations. I did was there within two days of each other one in Arizona and the other in Hawaii. And so I wanted to ask you do you take any credit for?

10:22 You know D flat. Do you feel that? You've played a role? I would only wish no, I don't feel that. I mean, I know I mean, I wish I could say that but well I can tell you play the role of a big growth introducing us to America and you know English and basically, you know performing a family with us. Thank you and interesting family right still still still.

10:56 So

10:58 Yeah.

11:07 Yeah, that's a really good question.

11:12 I think you know Jen was probably the first non-chinese adult, you know, really that I became close to and so initially it was it was strange. I mean, you know, she's probably the first non-chinese person, you know, Jenna was you're probably the first non-chinese person that we were close to but it was just so much fun, you know going out and laughing and learning all this stuff about, you know, the park or the market and so forth. So I came very easily. So I think it was a big deal. I mean I meant so much I think to me.

11:51 Although in a mall throughout in the beginning and then after that

11:56 Well, I was going to ask you as an eight-year-old child coming across and mean what was your your feeling? I know I mean, I now look at my grandchildren at 8, and I think they're going to change go to China would how would that be in so I what was your feeling in?

12:14 Concerns if any about coming to America in the whole different world different culture different language. How did the how did that resonate with you at 8 I think it was just so stressful actually, you know if when I I don't remember it, but when I look at the photos of us before we came and you know an end of memory of being on the airplane and then coming, you know our first flight ever you can see how stressed my parents were and all the all the kids, you know, we can see it in our eyes and you know our faces so it wasn't, you know, a Carefree experience. You know, we're going to leave everything behind every everybody we knew my grandmother. We didn't speak English, you know, when?

13:05 And there was a little bit of excitement on you know, because first, you know plane ride ride, so that was kind of exciting I remember but it was just so strange, you know people drove on the wrong side of the street. I remember that was my first impression coming out of the airport, you know, cuz in Hong Kong they do at the British way when when we live there. And so I think it was all just really stressful actually and then going to school two weeks after we came we came end of August and you know, we were in school right after Labor Day, you know not knowing anything. Nobody told us what to expect, you know, no English, you know, I was in third grade, so it was rough.

13:51 Like I can well, imagine what you all did so very well in school. So what was what was what inspired you to buckle down and to learn English? I might as well do I know when I met you that you certainly didn't speak English. So did they have English as a second language or what was thrown into the bath water? They had your cell but the funny thing is that when I wasn't yes, I was with a bunch of other chinese-speaking kids. So when we were together, we all spoke Chinese we didn't actually learning English, but it was good socially, so I think the way that we learn English was TV, you know, like with everybody else probably would like with all immigrants, you know, it was The Carol Burnett Show was Brady Bunch Partridge Family over and over and that's what we thought America was it looked just like that and that's how I learned. You know, it's really wasn't ESL.

14:51 At all and as far as school, I mean, you know, we were good in school and Hong Kong and so the academics came easily like math. I think you know, I was like four grades ahead she know but they would take me out of math and give me a workbook in English so that I could try to catch up in in English. So that part wasn't hard but socially it was really hard like no friends, you know, things like that being bullied to some extent. Yeah. Remember your first American girlfriend like Playmate or did you friends? You know, I I remember I went to school in the Mission District. So it was you know, largely African-American Latino and you know some Asian Americans and I had a friend Norma so and I think she was Mexican and so, you know, I've made friends eventually

15:46 Yeah, that's important part of it. So, what do you remember I mean after you came at what was the most influential part of your

15:58 Experiences during this time. I mean, do you have anything that really stood out for you during those formative years like from 8 to

16:08 When you went to college, yeah those trips with you or a big eye opener, you know, like we had never gone on vacation, you know in Hong Kong, you know, or at any point before then and you know, just to see a different place going to your mother's house. I mean, like I think I was telling you earlier that everything was too strange like the way that you guys interacted with each other, you know, and now it's not strange to me because it's just being American but you and your siblings and your mom, you know, you were so open then you joked all the time with each other and you know, we were more shy, you know, like specially around other people non-family members, you know, so

16:58 It was just you know, we we didn't hug. And now we know we have all the time, you know to another American saying so just you know learning it's becoming American really, you know, while retaining, you know, our family traditions and being Chinese and you know still so has that part Dorothy been hard for you because I see your family is kind of still holding on to some of the old traditions a little bit more reserved and I see that you all are going to moving in your different directions and with your families and just in life and you know that and how certainly conservative your family at. Your parents are has that been hard for you and in what ways has it been hard? I think the now that I have kids, you know, actually I'm trying to introduce them more and you know and raise them, you know.

17:58 In in the Chinese culture knowing that they were going to get the American culture all the time. Anyway, you know until for example for New Year's, you know, which is actually is happening right now. I'm trying to continue certain things for them, you know, and they don't speak Cantonese, although they're learning Mandarin in school. He knows all these things are important to me that I want to pass down to them at the same time, you know where American Ride so I think the challenge is to try to balance and put put all those things together, you know in the best way for for my kids. So that's all I think about right now is Dino from my kids for myself. I'm comfortable in both cultures, you know, I'm comfortable myself. So it's really like, how do I raise them? Either? That's why I think about like all the time.

18:55 I am just love the way though that you are so close to your family. I mean, I know you take these family vacations and you know, you don't believe he is not just you go in with your your kids and your mom and dad. It's you it's the whole family, you know, if you go to some place for skiing or four

19:16 Some other places that you go, so I didn't you just recently go to Napa and had it all if you lived in a home and all your vacation. Is there a big family outing except you recently taking some vacations with your kids with your beautiful, but that's why I admire that I think that's great. And I know that that's part of you you who you are and then for your your boys to experience their grandparents too and the tiger knit family, so it's been great for you. Not only that you sort of claim us as your family. I mean you have your son Raul and your grandchildren and

20:03 And you know you were at a chaplain at juvenile hall for for a long time and feel like you know, your your life has been about giving why you adopted roll so informed a family with him.

20:23 And so is that what you had envisioned for your life was just you know, be such a giving person.

20:35 I don't want ever envisioned something like that. I don't I mean I I envisioned being married and having my own children. That was my dream. I didn't happen, So I maybe it's just

20:53 Circumstances, whatever

20:58 I don't know kind of God's Gift back is that I I had you and your family as my first family and then Raoul came into my life and now I have a second family. So and and yes, I've you know adopted him. So but I think that that's you know, my heart's dream is that I would have had my own children and been married and you knowing but it just didn't fall in the cards with the cards didn't fall in place. So I just think that I have been very blessed and I I I hold onto that dearly because I think that that's

21:40 On what has happened in my life that I've been blessed with the family, so

21:46 Wasn't my dream but it has become my dream.

21:51 Yeah, that's what you know, sometimes I tell my my kid's dad, you know when when something isn't it doesn't go perfectly you do for them and and they're actually you know, there's so much better than I am because they'll say even when things are not perfect. They can still be really good, you know, and so my life has been that way to it. You know, it wasn't what I thought it was going to be your when my parents maybe thought it was going to be but you know the stuff that happens you can anticipate like our story and it's you know, it's a beautiful story it is and I think that you know, you can anticipate it and and you I think we all need to be grateful where we are and how we lived our life. I mean, I I hate you know, what 81, you know, I'm not exactly going up the hill anymore. I'm cruising down. So I'm thank you know, I I just

22:51 I don't want to regret anything in my life. And I don't think I have there's not a regret. I have except not having my own children, but I mean, I think I've been very blessed and I've been able to

23:04 Except what I mean or not without any complaints or what ifs and I only wish know I'm I'm very blessed and you know blessed with you and hold you tenderly it is my heart daughter and I will always because I think that's very very important very important for me and to to know that it's a very positive thing and I don't have any regrets. So why just think about that, you know that window of time, you know that six months that you were in San Francisco and then we were growing up and and how Serendipity works and here we are so I feel very blessed to have you as my heart mother.

23:44 I do too funny. I love you. I love you, too.