Jasmine Trotter and Krystal Lockett

[00:02] JASMINE TROTTER: My name is Jasmine Trotter. I am 25 years old. Today's date is November 10, 2023, and we are located in Mobile, Alabama. And I am here with the illustrious Doctor Crystal Lockett my friend and my associate partner.

[00:19] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yes, yes, yes. This is Doctor Crystal Lockett. I am 36 years old, and I am here on November 10 in the birthplace of Mardi Gras, Mobile, Alabama. I am here with my friend, my sister, my colleague, Jasmine Trotter. So, Jasmine, we are here. Yeah, we are here on this dreary day here in Mobile, Alabama, to just talk about some things that we've been working on with our foundation. But before we do that, I want to bring up something that happened last week. Do you remember that? There was a shooting at the fairgrounds? Did you hear about that?

[01:00] JASMINE TROTTER: I did hear about that.

[01:01] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Did you hear any details? What were your thoughts when you first heard about it?

[01:05] JASMINE TROTTER: I was scared and not surprised. Mostly every time we go outside in mobile, especially with the just amount of guns in Mobile, it seems like there's always a shooting. Last New Year's Eve, there was a shooting everywhere you go.

[01:25] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: And it's almost like it is something that we are pretty much hearing on a daily basis. And it bothers me, as you shared with me, it bothers you, and it's something that we are truly trying to find a solution to. So when it comes to stopping or solving this particular dilemma, what are your thoughts on that?

[01:49] JASMINE TROTTER: I think the main thing is community engagement, which is our goal and our calling. It's important for young people to be busy and focused, and I think that's really lacking in the mobile area, especially.

[02:06] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah. When I think about a shooting, mass shooting, that really shook me. All of them do, of course. But there was one in particular, July of June of 2015. Excuse me. And it was when Dylann Roof, which I really try not to say names, went into a church and killed some of those church members that were having Bible study there. And I remember just feeling, well, fear, because being in the Bible belt, we've been used to going to church services and going to Bible study and going to revival and all these different programs at church, but feeling fear and then also just wanting to do something about it. And shortly after that, I felt in my spirit, and I would say it was something that came from God, that, you know, let me look and see, like, what are the response of the family members? And it was through looking at the response of some of the family members. I mean, I've talked to you about this before, that the response of some of the family members and how they responded or reacted to this person that took their mother or took their pastor away was phenomenal. And some of the family members, they basically showed only love and just wanted to show the grace of Christ to Dylann Roof. And being able to still look at him as somebody that still loved, that was phenomenal to me. And shortly after, that's when the. The thought and the seed of our foundation came into place, which is the pure vine foundation. So when you, of course, have heard and we've talked about our foundation before, what made you want to kind of get involved in what we're doing with the purebound foundation?

[04:05] JASMINE TROTTER: I believe it was about a year ago, maybe a little bit over a year, that someone my age that grew up in the community with both of us in Theodore, Alabama, was shot and killed in Theodore, and he was shot by somebody that we both grew up with and went to church with. And it seems like the violence was just senseless. And I see his mother all the time. I definitely see her on Facebook and how just broken she is at the loss of her son. And it just made me want to dig in a little bit more into why mobile has such violence, especially in our black community. What can we do to solve this violence? And how have we been absent in the past in perpetuating this violence? And then recently, I found out that mobile was on the. Was the second most dangerous city in America, according to. I can't remember which study it was, but it was a study that was done based off FBI data that found that mobile was the second most dangerous city in America. And everybody I talked to in mobile is surprised by that. Every time I tell somebody that, it's a huge surprise to them. And it made me take a step back and say, why? Why are we the second most dangerous city? And I don't know if you want to get into it now or if we can talk about it later, how the mobile police department disputes that fact and has disputed the numbers that were put out by the FBI as far as the crime rate in mobile, Alabama. But it still begs the question, what is the problem in Mobile, and why do we have so much violence?

[05:54] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah. And not only that, like, it seems like it's continuing to be a cycle. Just like nationally, it's a cycle that's going on in communities. It's like a generational thing that I've seen, even in families. I mean, when you said that the. The woman from church that so hurt, still devastated from that gun violence, of course, doesn't just affect the victim. You have families that are forever changed from gun violence or the pain that comes from that or the disability that comes from that. So, yeah, we've got to explore deeper meaning behind it. What is really going on? Is it that people don't have the resources needed to deal with their mental health or deal the financial aspects that cause them to do some other crime that may lead to violence? I work in a prison. A maximum security prison or medium security prison actually is found in correctional. And I ask my patients all the time, like, why, you know, what is the reason that you felt you needed to do this particular endeavor? And a lot of them, it's the environment. It's the environment, and it's the people that they're brought up around that just change their mindset or introduce them to their own crowd or introduce them to a way of life that they see no way out, they see no other solution to it. And so finding a way to show that there are other options available and exploring that deeper. Our mission with our foundation, we unite people to promote wellness and bear spiritual fruit in our communities. What does, like, spiritual fruit mean when people hear that, well, spiritual fruit is the fruits of the spirit, of our Holy Spirit, when you believe in Jesus Christ. And so one of those is self control. And a lot of times I feel like with this instant gratification that we have nowadays, the self control really, really isn't there, in a sense. And that's one of the things that we're missing. And the peace that you're missing as well. Being able to be content in what you have right then and there and being able to work hard to get the things that you want, the self control aspect. But, I mean, you are of a different generation. You're a little bit younger than me. So when it comes to that portion of the fruits of the spirit that we talk about in christian cultures, do you feel like self control is something that's missing, too, or you think it's maybe another aspect of character?

[08:31] JASMINE TROTTER: I disagree. I think it's different from the fruits of the spirit. But I think the main thing that we're missing in this day and age is community. I think you can't have self control if you don't have. They always say it takes a village, and we're missing our village. A lot of people are growing up without a father in the home. They're being raised by their grandparents. They're, you know, having to be fed at school, not being fed at home. They're lacking in community. And I think that's a major point that we're trying to reach with the pure Vine foundation is bringing community back into the mobile, Alabama area. And a point that really bothered me the most when I wanted to get involved is that Alabama is one of the most historical places in terms of civil rights history. We have all the civil rights history almost.

[09:24] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah, we do.

[09:25] JASMINE TROTTER: A lot of things happened here. Some of the most major things in american history in terms of civil rights happened here. The bus boycott, Selma, SNCC, all of those things were created in Alabama. And yet, and still we have some of the least community activation. I don't see anybody out here addressing the violence, addressing the disparities between white people and black people in mobile, Alabama, even just addressing youth engagement, I don't see it. And I think that that's a huge contributor to the violence that's happening in Mobile, Alabama, as well as other cities, other larger cities. But particularly in mobile, Alabama, there is nothing to do. Genuinely.

[10:16] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yes, it's a smaller city. Yes, it's true. But, yeah, I think the lack of community is a big factor. But when it comes to people not being in community, they think that community is social media. And then I, when I say self control, I mean, you have a lot of people that you end up grabbing your phone and you're strolling on social media and you don't even know. It's been 30 minutes, hours that's passed by. And then the next thing you know, you're also looking at different people promoting violence or promoting guns on, you know, I've seen it here, young men from this city that's promoting, you know, the lifestyle that comes with that, of having the guns and feeling like that makes you someone by putting it on social media. But I've seen that circulated, and people will sit there for hours and look at this kind of content, content and then feel like that's some type of community by commenting on your social media pages. Like, we've got to get past that and we've got to get out and serve and get out and figure out, like, how can we reach them on a different way? In a different way now when it comes to people not being active like they used to, I mean, we've had some phenomenal leaders and from our home church that were active. I mean, Mary Walker, she is amazing. And I know you've spoken to her recently, so I would love to hear something that she shared with you that I might have missed when it comes to how she got active or, you know, the reason why she's still active even at an older age, going back.

[11:54] JASMINE TROTTER: To a previous point that you made about social media, that's a big pain point for me. And I think the biggest thing is when kids are looking around at their world and they don't like what they're seeing, that's when they look down.

[12:08] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah.

[12:08] JASMINE TROTTER: At their phone. So in order to get them to look up further than their phone, we need to give them something hopeful to look up from right now. They look up from their phone and they see nothing but destruction, violence, you know, disengagement.

[12:23] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah.

[12:24] JASMINE TROTTER: And in order for them to get back into wanting to be involved in their community and not wanting to be involved in the violence, we have to do more, especially as my generation, we need to do more for the upcoming generation. And I know you feel that same way as well, and Miss Mary Walker feels that same way. She has been active in her community forever.

[12:49] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Forever. We don't want it. I don't even know what her age. I don't want to say her age, but we're grateful for her leadership, for sure.

[12:56] JASMINE TROTTER: She's been active in NAACP. I first had my first contact with her when I became involved in the NAACP Youth council, and she was our youth counselor. And she. Every time that there's an election, she gets on that microphone at the Mount Missionary Baptist church and educates her people about their rights, about the time that they need to vote. And she picks people up and takes them to their polling location. And she's been doing this for years. And we just. We have a lot to learn from previous civil rights leaders. Another huge aspect of it is just education. Yeah, I think that's lacking, for sure. I did some research, and it seems like the governor, Ivey is trying to give more in terms of monetary funds to teachers in the public education system. But it takes more than just money. It takes curriculum. That's a huge, huge aspect of it.

[14:03] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: And knowing your history and making it interesting for people to want to learn from it, go back and learn from it. But that's a whole other topic when it comes to opening our horizons here in this state regarding adding different topics in the curriculum for the educational system here. But I wanted to piggyback on another statement that you made, and it was regarding, like, our young people wanted to look down instead of look up because of the things that they're surrounded by. And a lot of the things that they see, especially from leadership, is division bickering. Yeah. You know, they see just little petty fights and things of that sort that just divide people and not, it's not love. You know what I'm saying? It's not something that you feel like you want to be a part of. I mean, we just saw recently one of our mayors in the state had committed suicide because of the bullying that was happening on social media. And instead of loving that person and actually seeing the value that they add to the state, you know, mayor, he was very active in the community. Someone decided to bully. But that goes back to whatever the topic is. Instead of being divisive, we need to unite individuals, even if they are diverse from us in a sense that instead of, if they don't share the same christian principles, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, we've got to still unite our community because our community is made up of different people, different religious affiliations, different preferences. And those are hard conversations to have in this state. In the state of Alabama, it's hard, but we know that we are stronger together when we are united. And I know that, like you said, our youth are turning away from wanting to participate in certain things that we have done throughout the years because we as leaders are not doing a great job of showing that respect and that mutual love and understanding that diversity is okay. There is unity in diversity, but these are some things that we've just continued have to work on and continue to explore. When I going back to my patient population in the prison setting, I talked to a lot of them about their mindset. I ask them, like, what is it that you're getting ready to get released? Do you have a plan? Do you have things that you want to work on when you get out? And sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. It's like a lack of hope for some of the ones that I speak to. And I think that comes around once again with the environment that they've been associated with through being incarcerated. It almost gives a sense that there isn't any hope, even outside in the free world. You know, of course the hope is challenged when you're incarcerated, but to know that you're about to get out and still don't feel hope moving forward to the community, it's very scary to think about.

[17:17] JASMINE TROTTER: Yeah, I think a huge aspect of the lack of hope is lack of economic hope. And mobile is a little bit unique in that we have so much industry here. We have ship building, we have airplane building. We have opportunities for people to get involved, but it's still not enough. The wages are not enough. The work life balance is not enough. And a lot of people, like I said, they look up from their phone and they see nothing. But like you said, lack of hope. And I think organizing is a huge part of injecting hope back into the people and especially the prison population, because not only do they have lack of economic opportunity, even if they wanted to go get one of those amazing industrial jobs, they have a record. So that puts one more barrier. They are disenfranchised, not able to vote to change those laws, to be able to go back into the workforce. They're isolated. So what do they do? Go back to whatever.

[18:27] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Recidivism? Yeah, they go and they're. I'm like, I always tell them, now, don't come back now. When they're about to release now, don't come back now. You know, as in a. In a way to say, don't let what happened to you before bring you back into this. This environment. But unfortunately, it does occur at a percentage that we would be surprised at. But when I ask them questions, in depth questions like, about their mindset, even of that day, that kind of sparks something in them, because it's someone even asking, even caring to ask, what is my win for this week? Or what is my plan for someone to even care? And being able to explore the scenarios or the backgrounds of these individuals. Individuals, I think that also allows them to have a platform to change. And if we don't ask, we can't change the narrative. We can't change the cycle that's been going on. So the exploration, the investigation is critical in order for us to see where can we see a pattern that's going on with our prison population or with gun violence as well. Where can we see a pattern in order to find a solution to those issues?

[19:51] JASMINE TROTTER: And I know you wanted to involve some of the people that you work within the prison in the purvine foundation. Do you want to talk about how they could get involved?

[20:00] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yes. I was hoping, you know, being able to go to our parole office and have a conversation about wellness and have a conversation about ways that they can give back by sharing their experiences. As I stated, the investigation is the only way that we can know how the root was formed for some certain individuals that have had generational cycles of being incarcerated. When I look at my family, my father was a prisoner of fountain correctional. My father had several duis, and from that, he ended up being incarcerated for pretty much a majority of my high school years and majority of my college as well. So he didn't get released until, I think, fall of 2009. But after that, I didn't really have much time with him because he was diagnosed with cancer, multiple myeloma. So I didn't have much time to spend with him before he passed away in 2014. But my father is incarcerated, and then my uncle's still at the same prison that I serve at. He's still there. He doesn't see me because we are in two different buildings. I'm at a building behind the main site. And then I had a nephew that was incarcerated as well, but he was released a couple years ago. But looking back and seeing these generational cycles that are in a lot of families. Yeah. And not having the conversations between the older generations and the younger generation to say, you know, how can we prevent this? I have a nephew, my great nephew. Oh, that sounds like a great nephew. He's only six years old. But I. I just, like, already want to swoop in and show him love, you know, show him how to exercise self control, you know, being able to. To show him the most important thing is just family and that you are loved unconditionally. And those different things, character traits, you know, emotional intelligence that helps us, guide us when we make decisions. Like, being able to be a light for him in that aspect is something that is really heavy on my heart. Our young men, it's really heavy on my heart, especially knowing what we're struggling with in the city. Making sure that he, to the best of my ability, is not falling in the footsteps of his father or uncle's or grandfather. And that goes back to the community. Right.

[23:04] JASMINE TROTTER: I think that's awesome. Adding a positive example of masculinity. I think masculinity is a huge, like, hot button topic right now.

[23:16] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah, it is.

[23:16] JASMINE TROTTER: Because people think masculinity is all bad. And I don't think so. I actually don't think so. I think masculinity is equal to femininity. It's needed just as much as femininity is needed. But we have mothers and grandmothers raising an entire generation of young black men.

[23:38] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yes. And that's why our men, we've got to find a way to get them to understand. Like, you got to have that activism. You have to find a way to reach another generation. We can't just go to work and that's it. Like, we're being involved. Which reminds me of Mister Jackson.

[24:01] JASMINE TROTTER: Yes.

[24:02] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Oh, man, what an example. I'm. I mean, what an example. And we're talking about one of our church members who doesn't even have any sons, but he, you would think he does because he's coached and he's always bringing, you know, young men around him and to church.

[24:27] JASMINE TROTTER: And I passed by Theodore the other day, and he was picking up trash. Yeah, they have, like, some community group that gets together and picks up trash in the theater area. And I was just like, of course he's out here picking up trash. That should be our generation doing that. He is. He's done his job. You know, Miss Mary Walker, she's done her job.

[24:53] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah.

[24:54] JASMINE TROTTER: It's our turn.

[24:55] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah. Service, definitely. Both leaders in service when it comes to not only the community, but their families as well, which, of course, our families are critical. That's our heart, that's our priority. But sometimes, men, women, we get just focused on our families, not realizing that there's families out in the community, too, that need you, that need your voice. And there's a lot of our young men that need a father figure, whether it's the actual blood or nothing. Gosh, man, I think that would change everything, in a sense, when it comes to what's going on with the gun violence, because most of the offenders are young men. Most of them are. So, yeah, I asked my patients all the time, I'm like, how you're gonna give back, you know, these kind of questions to get them thinking, because everything starts in the mind. Your. Your outlook on if you're gonna be successful, on the free will, if you're a prisoner, or your outlook if you're gonna be successful, if you're one of us talking on this opportunity. It all starts with the mind.

[26:08] JASMINE TROTTER: And let us not forget that a lot of the absenteeism in the black community, as far as our black men, is not of their own doing or it's not. The responsibility doesn't solely fall on their shoulders.

[26:23] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Let's hear that. Come on.

[26:24] JASMINE TROTTER: They are disproportionately represented in the prison system, disproportionately targeted by the police department. All across the US. A lot of people don't know, did you know the police department or just the police as a concept, began as a way to control slaves, roundup slaves. And that history has carried them throughout the entire history of the US. And now, if you ask any police officer, you know, what. What are you looking for when you look for a criminal? They'll give you a good description and they're talk. Our black men are targeted. And they're. A lot of them are, in their mind, they feel like they're already a criminal. They feel like by the time they're 25, they're gonna be dead or in jail. And that is that's even harder to overcome in some ways than the reality, like you said, because it starts in your mind.

[27:32] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah.

[27:32] JASMINE TROTTER: And like you were saying, like, I've had an uncle that's been in jail, I've had, my cousin was killed due to gun violence. It is a huge problem, especially in the mobile area. And, you know, we have to do something. We can't just sit back on our hands and do nothing.

[27:54] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah. And it's interesting that you brought that up because that goes back to history. Right. A lot of people don't know that. And you think about how families been separated when the family unit is destroyed or separated in whatever way, when you think about in slavery, they would separate the husbands from the wives and the children. All of that brings down your morale.

[28:23] JASMINE TROTTER: Even in the like, in the sixties, when welfare was being created, they made a rule that you could not receive any financial assistance from the government if there was a man in the house. That trickles down. You know, men had to be absent if they wanted their families to eat. And shortly after, like I was telling you, they removed all the Ydev big factory jobs from a lot of huge cities and sent them overseas. And that just leads to more economic despair and a breakdown of the family unit.

[29:00] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah. Because a lot of people's identity is tied up into what they do instead of, like, who they are, which is capitalistic society. Right. And as, I mean, our foundation, the Purine foundation, is remembering your identity. Who you are is tied up to your faith, you know, being a believer of Christ. And it is through that that you have the power to exercise all those spiritual fruits, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generous and self control, all those things. And without those, it's like there's this inability to truly be effective, in a sense. And so when we talk about someone losing their job or not having a way to provide for their family, that's. That decreases their ability, their sense of self worth or self esteem. And we have some men that believe on just that alone. So, yeah, I mean, it's discouraging. We have a lot of opportunities here in our city, but sometimes that because of what they've done, they can't, they can't get those particular jobs that are available. So it's like finding another way to help them or they go back to their old way.

[30:20] JASMINE TROTTER: Yeah. And there's, there's lots of barriers. Just transportation.

[30:24] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah.

[30:24] JASMINE TROTTER: Is a huge barrier. We do not live in a walkable city.

[30:28] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah.

[30:28] JASMINE TROTTER: We don't. A lot of these huge plants are 20 and 30 minutes away from people's homes. That's a big barrier as well. People aren't, don't have the ability to finish high school. Huge barrier.

[30:41] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah. And there are resources, but they, I think I getting that information to them and that comes with a lot of things that we do as far as promoting and using our social media or using our email list in order to reach people. But the most important way is to go to them. And so that's where we're at right now in our exploration stage of finding a way to go and reach them where they are. And one of the next steps that we've talked about is going to the parole office because they got to check in there, some of them, in order to be in compliance. And that is where moving forward, we want to hear their own stories and see from their point of view how we can help them now that they're out, but then how to help anyone that's been incarcerated when they're in the prison setting. What kind of resources do they need in order to be productive and have that shift in the mindset and the skills needed to be successful out here in the free world? So that's that. And then also, you know, going, being able to find a way to go to the root cause of why some of them who are incarcerated for any type of violence, how did that, how did they get to that point? So we have a lot of work left to do, you know, when it comes to the, the thoughts and the, the things that have contributed to where we are with a gun violence here and I, our city and nationally. But I think the conversation has started and the steps that we've taken and other organizations have taken are leading us to finding the answers.

[32:28] JASMINE TROTTER: And we're guided by God to be able to do everything that we're doing and blessed, to be able to contribute back to our community and just have the spirit of service.

[32:41] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Spirit of service, yeah. And realizing that there are so many individuals that are diverse. But if we come together and unite on this, this very important topic, because it's affecting all of us, gun violence, mass shootings, incarceration, it's affecting mental health, it's affecting all of us. So we unite people to promote wellness and to bear spiritual fruit. When we are able to truly do that, we can come to solutions quicker and truly change our communities for the better. So we got some work to do.

[33:19] JASMINE TROTTER: So if you could name your biggest dream for the purvine foundation for the year of 2024, what would that be?

[33:29] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: My biggest dream for the Purvine foundation is to see our community with not a single incident of gun violence in 2024. That's a very big dream. But also, and I like to say something that is big and beyond our control, but also to have an event that brings people together and shows those spiritual fruits that I mentioned earlier without any incident or occurrence of violence in any. In any way, that there. That there is an event that brings us all together that promotes wellness and demonstrates those spiritual fruits. Nine fruits. That would be phenomenal, because it would plant the seed. Everything starts with, you know, a beginning, and it would plant the seed for the next event to come. So it'll just be like a domino effect, in a sense, but that's my vision. What would you say?

[34:38] JASMINE TROTTER: So, right now, we're at Story Corps, which is a really amazing opportunity to be able to share our story, and I have a vision of something similar for the mobile area. We have a lot of huge, big name rappers and musicians that have come out of the mobile area. I think it would be amazing to have a place where young people could come and. And, you know, explore their artistic talents, whether that be music, art. I think that would make a huge dent in a lot of the instances of violence, because, like I said, it's boredom. Maybe not boredom. Maybe boredom is the wrong word, but just a lack of activity in the area. And I think I dream like, a dream of mine is just to be able to give just a place where young kids can go and explore their own talents because they're so talented. If you give them a chance to draw, sing, dance, speak, they will. And they will blow your mind with the things that they can do. And I know that from experience working with. With a lot of our children, and I think that's long term something that purvine could definitely do. I believe it.

[36:03] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: I see it, too. And, man, I would love for that to be 2024, being able to have something tangible that will. They can work on and unite our community. Wow, that would. That would really be something that can change and shift the atmosphere when it comes to gun violence and division in Mobile. We have some work to do.

[36:27] JASMINE TROTTER: I'm really inspired. I'm really inspired by this conversation.

[36:31] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah.

[36:31] JASMINE TROTTER: Yeah.

[36:32] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: So thank you so much for your willingness to serve with us and your willingness to have this conversation with me, and I look forward to moving forward in that. That event.

[36:44] JASMINE TROTTER: Yes, ma'am.

[36:45] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: We speaking into existence.

[36:46] JASMINE TROTTER: Yes, ma'am. Thank you for your leadership, and thank you for your dedication and your love and your many, many talents.

[36:53] KRYSTAL LOCKETT: Yeah, I appreciate it, too. Thank you.