Jay Parker and Pamela Lehman
DescriptionOne Small Step Conversation partners Jay Parker (55) and Pam Lehman (73) talk about growing up in a military (both Airforce) family, the can-do spirit of High Plains people, racism/segregation (not in military, but off base), how travel informs perspective, role religion plays in life and their perspective on former President Trump's impact.
Subject Log / Time Code
- Jay Parker
- Pamela Lehman
Recording LocationVirtual Recording
Venue / Recording Kit
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00:04 Good morning, J. My name is Pam Lehmann. I am 73. Years, old, today is September 2nd 2021 and I am sitting in my home in Amarillo, Texas. And my conversation partner. Today is Jay and my relationship to that conversation. Partner is your conversational. That's who I am.
00:42 Well, I might hot air. My name is Jay. Parker. I am 55 years old. Today's date is September 2nd 2021 and I am sitting in my makeshift office Lash Studio in Amarillo, Texas. So I'm we're just simply right now conversation.
01:11 Okay, hold on. Just a second and I have
01:19 Thank you for your patience.
01:32 Will Pam. So what what made you want to do this? In a
01:40 You know, we live in such a divisive time and it's my goal or my dream that we could build some kind of relationship. And that getting to know each other through this venue that we can take, literally one small step to bridging that that divide that we seem to find in our country today.
02:12 You know, I'm married. That sentiment exactly it. It's, we live in a time where there's so much information that would have access to. So the question that we have to ask ourselves is what is the truth. And and so like, critical race Theory? I feel that everything is being everything. Racial is being accentuated for some reason when it doesn't have to be. So I'm really excited to get to know you. I read your bio and we have a lot in common.
02:55 Yes, we do, you know a guy as I read that I thought they made a mistake here. We have too much in common to be to be talkin about things that divide us. Yeah. Yeah. It's so we can actually look at the world through a different perspective.
03:15 It's so I was military. My whole family is military. So I was a military kid like you, my dad was my dad. Mom sister brother, all my cousins either their West Point or Air Force Academy and it so that I served as well so we can look at things a little different in regards to the racial divide. I didn't know that there was a racial divide until our until until Roots came out.
03:45 Well, that's so interesting and I hope we can pursue this line of conversation after we do this Necessities here. So
03:58 That would be great. So yeah, we
04:06 So, okay.
04:08 So the question should J red pants by out loud as written. And I did found that we had a lot in common. So what in the Bible would? I like to know more about? I like to know more about your experience as a military brat like I was
04:28 Well, I tell you.
04:31 I had what I consider, maybe a unique relationship with the military because during the time that my dad was serving and he was career Air Force, but my mother was extremely ill. And so we lived apart from my dad because of that.
04:59 And also because much of the work that he was doing was Secret.
05:06 And so much of the time probably until the end of his career. I hardly ever knew what it was he was doing and so that was different, but we did move a lot and I encountered
05:25 What I would later learn. They're wonderful people everywhere. And there are people everywhere that are suspicious of people. They don't know people that are different from them. And so as an Air Force brat, sometimes I faced what I would consider out white out. Right rejection just because I was an outsider and but sometimes within the military families themselves,
06:02 There was a lot of bonding that took place because we were all kind of in the same boat. Literally.
06:12 Yeah, again, we have a lot in common that you're right. As a military kid off base, was a very unpleasant experience and to exacerbate the fact that I was an outsider and a military feared. The fact that I was African-American was really I really had to be careful on. This was back in the NBA in the seventies. And even though my mom and dad broke up, when I was 11. We still went to see that and we were all over the world and I brought it was much, it was a much more enjoyable experience, but it was when we came back to the states, that we really got to see the racial divide. And yeah, but when we're on base, they were softball games. And Thea do their barbecue and with, with our military families and, and we had occasion friends.
07:12 Friends, Asian friends, black friends, everybody sharing the same experience as a either. The United States Air Force member or a dependent. I really enjoyed my, my time in the military, but the great thing about it is, I didn't know that there was racism until I was 11. So that was kind of already instilled in me. That's why I didn't see color even even though there was a lot of a lot of people that that would, you know, that were rude to me because I didn't see it, because we were military, red, white, and blue. As I got older, I got to see it, but and it took a lot of Light Within me to hold my G.
08:06 Because I'm a Christian.
08:09 To hold my ground and not to judge, and not to retaliate, and it hurt a lot. But, but it really serve me. Well.
08:22 You know, perception seems to be everything and when I was growing up and course quite a bit older than you are. But in the military, I saw, like you said, there was no color barrier. Everybody was who they were. Even though the ranks of people, there was still, we were all in this together and I am like you color was not an issue when I was in that world.
09:03 And it wasn't until I went to live with my grandparents.
09:09 And I can remember, for whatever reason. I don't even remember why now, but we went to the courthouse.
09:17 And I saw the signs that said colored water fountain and colored restroom and I had to ask, what in the world is that? And so we're me, the military was a place where those barriers were not there. So that was a good thing. Growing up for me.
09:44 Yes, ma'am. Yeah, it was it was pleasant. It was it was I was allowed to be a kid. I mean, you know, and it was amazing. It wasn't until 1 when I was 11 we moved from from actually Panama to d.c. That's what my mom and dad broke up and DC is predominantly in our community was predominantly African-American. And that's when I saw it. I was like, oh my God, and then, then we would come back to Amarillo cuz this is where my, my mom is from to see my grandparents. And then, that was another culture shop.
10:30 You know that. But then I got to see the hearts of people and the ignorant of of not even wanting to get to know someone of another race intended to see their care alive and well today, but in a subliminal way is even more atrocious to me to see how when we're driving in the car and a and a white guy cut you off in his pickup truck. What's the first thing that comes out of your, in your mind, always goes for Ray. So we all have a job to do in order to suppress.
11:25 What what the environment says is acceptable? It's not except. We know it's a pastor. I see this same kind of thing. Happening with religion, is that we seem to stand in Judgment of those that are different than us for whatever reason.
11:54 And yet, what I have found is that
11:59 There are many religions that have things that are of value. They may not be like us, but they still have, they have things to teach us, just like, just like the Jewish people in their love of the Sabbath is so much greater than Christian people, find that phone was ringing, and I didn't know that if I put on airplane mode, it would just kill my service.
12:44 Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Miss Pam or religion, or gender, or whatever it is and we make those judgments. And yet when we are open, as you said, when we open ourselves to learn from other people, we're all, we're all alike. We're all human. And so you're a faster and I hope you can appreciate what I'm getting ready to save. The Bible says that in the last days what Jesus said in Matthew 24, that the number one thing that we need to be watching out for his deception and so is widespread. And so you got a lot of of of people that are in the church that
13:43 Are kind of like playing Christian and in the race issue. Exacerbates the whole thing. We got black churches with that white church, that off all Hispanic. We're all in one body, you know, and so I believe that the racial divide is just one weapon that we decide to use in order to to keep the chasm open, you know, and it's so all of the, all of the, the the things that we've learned or her, not even having experienced them. They shouldn't even come into play. If we truly are Christian. We should, we should give him and the respect of being a spirit. I'm never speaking Spirit, a solar, a creation of almighty, God until they prove you wrong.
14:43 Created in the image of God. Regardless of what we look like on the outside, about all the places that you had lived and how that formed who you are today. And so that was different, stay there long, but then, we ended up in, in Texas at Lackland. And then when I was about,
15:20 I guess about 4, we ended up at Grissom in Indiana, and then Dad got got orders to Turkey. And so he spent a year in turkey, and then it got ordered the grease. And and so then we went to Greece. So I spent my between 4 1/2 and 5, 1/2 years old. We lived in Greece. It was amazing. And to see the other cultures and in to see how intitle we are as Americans, which, you know, cuz I would ask my mom, something out in public as a five year old and she was like, are, you know, you don't want to let them know what we have. We kind of would like you to know, we can pass it, or should be quiet. And so then, so then after that, we got station.
16:09 In Panama, and that's where I got to see the overwhelming poverty. And and I was I was blown away. So I was about six or seven at that point but I was old enough to realize why we've got it. Good, you know, and yeah, so I think I stink when you go to church much back then so I was just, I was partying, you know, they're in their twenties overseas with money. And so we're just kind of forced to some old ourselves out of what we saw. We realized I realize now that my parents couldn't couldn't teach us how to be better because they were in their early twenties. And I'm they didn't know how to be better. It wasn't till later that that me and my dad had a really good bargain. He became the places that I live really taught me a lot. And then as a military member
17:05 To go to places like Panama in the gold to England and Germany in and Korea. Korea is what build my whole belief system.
17:16 Because now I'm I'm in my mid-twenties at this point and I'm going to my first sergeants and why can't I have my card? Because because you don't have reckon up. But and then I realize that after I looked into the community and so no one had a car if they really work. We're doing what we had a moped or a bicycle. And so I think that made me grateful.
17:47 It's over. I think my whole Persona is built around gratitude cuz I should be dead and stinking in my grave people. And that's what I do for a living.
18:03 Oh, I am, I never the only time my dad was ever overseas. He was in Korea right after the Korean War. It's a, we were not able to go with him, but I have gotten to travel overseas twice.
18:22 And each time that has taught me something valuable. We went to England, one time. And I can remember riding on the tube in London and seeing such a plethora of different kinds of people speaking. So many different languages, and yep, there they were all getting along with each other. So, insightful to see that we can do that. If we are willing to do that or willing. So, do you believe that?
19:09 Do you believe that I know that we're all subject to our environment and you know, things we learned from, you know, our development and things like that. But do you believe that that's something that we can overcome the racial divide?
19:27 Play. Make sure I understood that do. I believe we cannot overcome the Rachel divide Weebly? Yes, I believe that we can and I think the way to do that is just like what we are doing today one-on-one or in small groups, getting to know other people and their experiences and what they've been through and even the bad things that they experienced a good things to save experience. We have way too much in common. We do I've been I've been when I got over knows how I went when I was in Atlanta Atlanta, I spent 27 years and that's predominantly
20:27 African-American chip. And so,
20:32 Moved back to Amarillo because my mom wanted to come home and there's so much work to do. Once I once I stop concentrating on myself, family united citizen. I'm going to change the name because I don't believe color is, it should be an issues Multicultural. But I have I have ran into a lot of people that serve the center and I serve them through the center at white and black affluent. You do not affluent and I tell you, I this era was such a multicultural place, it it could be, it could be
21:27 It's a diamond in the rough all red, but it could be the most enjoyable place. If if we have programming that that you know that push diversity and like we're doing here. I think that this is I think we could be friends after this, but I think that it's really important to understand if I have money that that guy doesn't have money enough to put gas in his car. So we don't have, we don't have empathy for people because we have never experienced it and I believe that if we open up that we can better understand the plight and then and then be a service in some way to them. So I'm having an amazing time will tell me the name again. I mean, I know you're going to change it then. Black historical cultural.
22:22 Center. Ok. Amarillo, United citizens Forum best the nonprofit that it's under but it's actually a community center and when I got back, I left it 84. I think they broke ground and completed it in 85, so I never saw it. And so when I came back this time, is it, what is that sounded? So abrasive right there, you know, but but that was I guess that was the environment in which they were, they were developing their concept of community. And so I do believe that Heights.
23:10 Bit because everybody's welcome. You can come there and you can get some food. If I have the funding I can pay your bill, you know, I don't want to do that. Everybody was just exacerbated. The races are just going to come and get you jealous. Yes, exactly. So it looks like we have another question.
23:52 Who has been the most influential person in your life? And what did they teach you?
24:00 Okay, Miss Pam, who is Ben? Because growing up, I was not always with my dad and my mother was not well when I married, my father-in-law was such an influence on me. He was a strong Christian. He was compassionate, he was
24:38 He loved the Bible and what it stood for.
24:46 He was he was a door. He was involved with lived in a really small little town in the Panhandle and but he got involved in the community and tried to make it a better place to be. And so, he taught me about service to the community and about reaching out and trying to help other people and trying to understand where they were coming from. And so he was that kind of influence to me and even though my husband and I divorced he was always there for me, my father-in-law and I think he was very understanding of the trials that both my husband and I were going through
25:45 Students are non-judgemental.
25:52 That's amazing. It is really loves you. And so I would say that it was my father, too. But, but my story is different. My dad was a party. Oh my God, it was a hot mess and I used to just sit there and go. How can you drink so much and not go to sleep so hard for the world. He did, he was, he was a handsome guy. He was a Ladykiller. You they thought and, and then, then he was, he was kind of grimy. Do you know? Because he would do whatever he needed to do. 22 to fulfill his objective.
26:48 But then, but then he got saved. And I saw, I saw him move in the opposite direction was in a few months. And, and that really impacted because I was struggling in my, in my Christian walk to and I have no one.
27:08 You know, my elders that were really walking it out. We were just playing Church, you know, Dad got saved as hard as he works.
27:19 On self in the world. He did that for the Lord that I was blown away. When he got said, I think I was almost thirty and I have been saved for maybe ten years but not really take herself off center stage and help people. And so I haven't really short story. My dad. Did, I did a mission trip to Guatemala after he retired and they the people of Guatemala. The indigenous people were having Church in what seemed to be, but had no floor there trying to raise money.
28:04 Tip to get a fluoride. And so they didn't raise much. And my dad is his first time on a mission. He was the only black guy on the mission and so he wasn't really respected. It was a new Christian and so they took him there as not to show the people but to the cleanup retired. Retired of South Dakota. So that's that's predominantly Indian and Caucasian. And so they were watching it and and so he was cleaning up and they left intentionally left the offering in the basket. I'm by the altar to see what he would do. They set him up they start but God was good in him. And so he picked the basket up, you looked at it. They said he looked at it for like 10 seconds. Trying to decide what he was going to do and then it went in his pocket and pulled out of nausea.
29:04 Probably just dropped it all in there. Walk out the back door. He never said anything.
29:09 But that's the extent of his transformation and I believe that if we if we just concentrate one day at a time to do better every day. I believe that we have the potential to make those transformation won't always succeed. But if my dad can do it, what a wonderful story. What a wonderful story.
29:41 Okay, so so
29:49 So your dad was was influential could, but it says here. Could you briefly describe in your own words, your personal political views?
30:04 Until Trump came along. I was pretty much what I would call a political. I didn't involve myself in politics. I didn't talk about politics and that I learned that from my father because in the service, you don't talk about the commander and chief and so 6. In Rome, when Trump came along, help me to Define what I thought I believed. And I'm still very quiet about what I
30:47 Believe, but I saw in him someone who did not tell the truth and who did not live up to what my expectations were of a Christian. And so I found myself just taking a stand against the things that he proposed. So I would have to, at this point, call myself a Democrat, even though there were many times in my life and I voted Republican.
31:27 I see that both sides of the political Spectrum have value and benefits Army leadership is key. And if the leadership is corrupted, then I think that just trickles down. I think people need to stand up for what's right? Not for what's red or what's blue.
31:59 I agree in part, hit the stage and it was disingenuous. And anybody hit the scene as a businessman turned politician, so he was already used to shoot.
32:19 Downgrading is value system, in order to move forward, and whatever, whatever he was trying to do. And yeah, you are absolutely, right. I feels a lot of things that I didn't agree with them, but I do believe that he made some Sound business decisions regarding the country, and I guess I learned to tolerate him cuz it was much hasn't changed at the same time.
32:59 And like you said, we never talk.
33:02 Negatively about our commander-in-chief even as retired or veterans we don't, but I can talk about the situation at the truth. And and how in both Administration, the truth seemed to be something that they didn't subscribe to do a shin here in this country that we've got to open border. We're sitting here in Amarillo, Texas. You got I came from the capital of human trafficking which is Atlanta. And I see it happening here. I'm getting amber alerts on my phone at least three, four times. A week children are coming up. Missing drugs are flooding the heights, but people that don't live in underserved Community, don't necessarily see that
33:54 It's the most amazing thing. How we can leave, we can leave our service members and fellow Americans Behind Enemy Lines. And she doesn't necessarily understand what's going on over there. And like I said before, we were flooded with so much information. What is the truth? And so we got to ask
34:19 The Lord. What is the truth? We got to search our word. What is the truth and actually be open to see. And what is show series, you know, because the session is widespread and I don't think one president is better than the other. They both have have monumentous flaws.
34:39 But I don't believe that I believe that it's up to the people. I believe that we need to, we need to get stronger at the poles so we can vote in who?
34:50 Cool window. Well, we can't know, but who we discern to be somebody of of great moral fortitude and then help him to stay that way. Because when they get the Congress, man, they change that become Millionaires. And so we got to make sure that we stand up for our community and be honest about it or buying at the hold them accountable and it's our money. It's it's are you work for us? And they've been missed that point and they've done a lot of things without our input. And and I'm done here, we are so well, and I certainly agree with you. It seems like
35:35 It's just a human flaw that power corrupts. And
35:41 And so I don't know how we overcome that except through the boat and thank goodness. We live in a country where we can vote. So but why? I think, I think we have lost sight. And you're right, democrat or republican. There are people who
36:05 Who are not accountable and who have made bad decisions, and who make many decisions based on the fact that they want to stay in office rather than for the good of the people.
36:24 And so I don't know how we overcome that. I have some ideas, but
36:30 It just seems like we got to vote with not only our hearts but our heads and be able to trust the people that we elect, you know, ultimately Miss Pam is our fault.
36:47 It is because we are I live in a community that is underserved. And and
36:56 Most of the time, the community as a whole gets the short end of the stick, but it's not the municipalities fault. It's not the folks, the people who govern, it's not their fault, if you buy a pitbull,
37:12 You can best believe if you don't treat him, right? He's going to nip it. You just going to bite you. And so I believe that the accountability is to fold. We only, we allow things to happen and we don't stand up and what bad things happened and so, you know, if if you can see your, Let The Pit Bull bite you, he's going to use. One day is really going to take a chunk out of it. So that's what that's what we are. So we don't hold those elected elected and appointed officials accountable and then when they slip or dropped the ball or are disingenuous, we don't call them out. So the phone can be shared, you know, and it's it's our fault. We will let
38:01 The governing body. And if we allow those things continue to happen and we can come to it, we can agree to disagree but I'm willing to do that. We just kind of sit back and I hate that happen and you just suggest to it. And that's not that's not God's, that's not got the best for us. He says that government has put in place as as a strong-arm for him. If you do it. We see we see our political, we see, our elected officials, stealing and cheating, and withholding information.
38:35 Wow, these are we allowed to happen. Then. We're all is well and we can see if this is right in your face. Well, I agree. And there's a, there's a story and I cannot remember who the author was, but it goes kind of like this and it was about Hitler and he came for a certain group of people and I didn't stand up cuz I wasn't in that group. And then he came for my people and this just keeps going and going and going until he says. And then they came for me and there was no one left to stand up for me and that we do have to take a stand as painful. Sometimes is that is we need to stand up for what's right? And hold and hold those people accountable.
39:36 Yes, ma'am. I think that that we're so afraid of public opinion. I was the same way. I was just like my dad, you know, he has Medicare young black man, getting a manicure and a pedicure. And it wasn't, until he showed me that that we can't be Center Stage. Our whole existence is, is a we exist for other people. Wear that we are the answer to the prayers of people and God doesn't rain man. Out of the sky anymore. He uses men and women to bless men and women. And so I think that there's so much negative press being put through our devices in our TV that we don't see the good in the world anymore. That's a week. We concentrate on those things.
40:36 Grace abounds, all the more. So as we stand
40:42 Is as we stand without self in mind, I don't care about my reputation. I do I tell you, man. I don't care. I usually, I don't anymore, I don't care about.
40:54 You know, Carlos, I just don't care. I mean I wanted to run to love our brother as we love ourselves when we first have to have some stuff love, you know, in order to love somebody and there's no better feeling than then bring the gospel to somebody or more paying, somebody is Bill and expecting nothing bad knowing that they're gross, you know, in 90 days to get it again, but you know, in doing the right thing, I think that we've lost that and in the people that do have a heart to serve.
41:38 Don't have a hard to stand. I stand.
41:47 Yes, ma'am. Sorry about that.
41:50 So our next question, what does it mean to be a resident of the high plains? And what are the traits or characteristics of people living in this region that but they share characteristics, they share
42:07 That's an interesting question. You know, I think we have in this area as opposed to some other places that I have lived kind of a can-do spirit and yet I see you especially like in churches. They always say 20% of the people are doing 80% of the work. And so I think one of the things that we need to do is to nurture those people that have that can do spirit and continue to teach that. And I don't know whether is because we have such Pioneer Roots out here or because they're so few of us, but I see this, I think you and you animated this that that there is opportunity in this area to
43:07 Be a more Multicultural place that we we don't 10 to 2.
43:18 Put people in boxes as much as other places that I have lived and say, well, you're there. So therefore you can only do that. I don't see that in this area because it takes all of us pulling together because there are not, as many of us to make things happen. That's one of the things I think about this part of the world.
43:46 I agree and you know Miss Pam I was shocked when I came back to Amarillo and saw how diverse it was. I like a little while but this is my home now. I love it and Amarillo.
44:06 That will the high. Plains, actually, is a really, really great place. We've managed to more than other regions in the country, hang out to at least a core value, you know, and I see that, I see that. I see the diversity.
44:29 In Amarillo and in the high plains Plainview and and Canyon is really amazing. Cuz I've never seen that before. I've lived in in either predominately all African-American or all all Caucasian, you know that those sorts of environments with the sea come together on thing. One thing we need now is Christ wife, daily Revival. So we could do what you're leading to discipleship. But Miss Pam here in 79107. We've got almost 50 churches and you can count on, on two fingers fingers, who are actually doing for the community outside of their own congregation. And that's sad. That's, it's sad.
45:27 It's so I think that week we just we need Revival, we can do what what we have and experience. We can truly love people to the point. Where will begins at 2, really help.
45:45 I'm if we if we don't if we was our price we can so we can. But wouldn't it be in your ZIP code? If those 50 churches could find a way to come together to have some of these kinds of conversations. I know, I served in a town outside of Amarillo, a church that had I mean a city that had 50-plus churches in it with as much smaller, much smaller place.
46:25 But they had so many churches because they couldn't get along with each other. Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing to try to bring them back together and have those conversations, like we're doing right now? Value system that built this country if you know, they got critical race theory in the schools. And in everybody, put their in Battle Creek.
47:02 Who built the railroad that slaves built? I mean, it's the truth, but it's not it's just not the totality of the truth isn't. Truth is built this country together. We did it even though we had differences, major differences, but we all built this nation and to lose sight of that is is the most egregious thing. We have to we have to bind back together. Like you said and have these conversations in in order to agree to disagree if we have to but at least agree for the direct well and I one of the things and I don't know where this address is our next question or some other question that's going to be further down the line but
47:50 I've lived for two years, very short. Of time, but in New Mexico and that was in a culture. I've never been exposed to before the indigenous people. First. The first people, I think they liked most of the ones that I encountered were Pueblo, Indian people and
48:25 And the sins that we have.
48:27 Done to those people. And so, that's a whole nother group of people that are that don't have a place at the table, a lot of times. And I, and I don't find those people here in Amarillo, but that's just another place where we need to have some healing for our for our country.
48:49 Yes, ma'am. Wow. Yeah, my dad lived in in South Dakota and there are a lot of lot of indigenous people there too. And you're right. They, they've been, they've been given a Band-Aid with the casinos in the and some of the land, but that, that does not let that doesn't solve the problem. They need to see the table. I understand, but we all have a responsibility to ensure that and we need to stand up and you have a lot of Indians in Spanish and people that are coming over here that do stand-up, but they kind of feel. I believe that they kind of feel powerless because we have such a monster.
49:39 Charlotte Ritchie.
49:51 To come to this country and began to participate in meaningful ways because they're struggling just to make ends meet to fight the fight. Exactly. Exactly. It's okay. It's so what are we going to do? Agree on something complicated? I hope political system is just over complicated. And like you said, I believe that it's it's a roadblock to any sort of success, unless you have the means to the fight the fight, which most people do.
50:51 To reach out to another and say, Let me let me help you. Let me be let me be a stepping stone for you. So you can receive Meet Your Potential. I know the little town that I spent so much time in had a tiny packing plant and lots of the people that went to work there and that were drawn to that Community Or Hispanic and they came because they were jobs. And so one family in particular came, they couldn't speak a word of English, like so many of them, but someone took that family under their wing and one of their children, then grew up to be one of the principals in the in the school. And so what a success story just because someone was willing to reach out and help.
51:51 Wow, what a story and you don't miss them. I believe that.
51:57 Most people.
52:00 Don't want to put themselves out there because we've been we've been burned before, you know, and the Bible says that in the in the end days, the love of many shall wax cold because of how would treating one another. And so we don't take a chance and what an awesome story. I like. I like I can't grow up and become a principal. That's amazing. So maybe that's the answer or take away from this conversation today. Is that
52:33 We've taken a chance talking to each other and I made us both helped us both grow and see potential in that I believe so too. I really enjoy talking to you. And it's so there's really only one point. We we really didn't agree on but weak, but we agree to disagree there. It's so I really enjoyed it. I would like to keep in contact with you, if that's okay. Sure. I would like to do that also, so maybe we can facilitate after we finish this recording.
53:19 You know how you hold conversations, Emily. Never, when we start these they have their organic and they have a life of their own. And so I just your thoughtfulness and the the depth that you both went. I really appreciate that. Just
53:55 But also within your question, are you saw yourself differently in terms of like on the scale of conservative beliefs, in in social economic and political there was a huge difference, you know what I mean, but I have to tell you, I love hearing your military experiences and your your spiritual connections as well. Thank you so much. I'm going to stop the recording.