Jeff Hren and Camille Mojica

[00:00] JEFF HREN: All right.

[00:09] CAMILLE MOJICA: You mean. You're talking to him, aren't you?

[00:11] JEFF HREN: I was talking to both of you.

[00:12] CAMILLE MOJICA: Oh, no, it's okay.

[00:17] JEFF HREN: If you can tell me what you had for breakfast. If you had breakfast.

[00:20] CAMILLE MOJICA: I had three eggs over easy, toast and two slices of bacon, sir.

[00:24] JEFF HREN: Over easy.

[00:26] CAMILLE MOJICA: Thank you. Camille what did you have for breakfast?

[00:28] JEFF HREN: If you had breakfast, I had a protein shake because I need to get these gains, Ben. I gotta be strong.

[00:33] CAMILLE MOJICA: Excellent breakfast.

[00:37] JEFF HREN: There is no bad breakfast as long as it makes you happy. I think so. The only bad, like, if you legitimately hate eating, like, non fat yogurt and that's your breakfast, then that's sad. Non fat yogurt and fruit and granola. That's my bother.

[00:51] CAMILLE MOJICA: So I see Camille putting headphones on.

[00:53] JEFF HREN: So I like them. Just be. Wait, there we go. I like them just because I can hear myself clearly. I know that sounds super self centered. No, it helps me keep track of, like, how loud I'm being. Because if. When I'm listening in the headphones.

[01:10] CAMILLE MOJICA: Audio reasons.

[01:11] JEFF HREN: Yes, yes. Track of how loud I'm being.

[01:15] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[01:16] JEFF HREN: In this business, you end up paying very close attention to things that almost no one else would pay attention to. And, like, the end product, it's just for us, it's like we'll hear it and we'll know. Like, there's a little hiss or like, I popped that pee and be upset about it for days. No one else in the world is, like, driving down Martin Luther King Parkway and hears that, goes, I'm never supporting NPR ever again. Yeah, that's what happens with the job, you know. You know, the tiny little things behind the scenes that the everyday person will not pay attention to.

[01:45] CAMILLE MOJICA: Right.

[01:45] JEFF HREN: But, you know, it still bothers us. Right? Yeah. But I think we all keep each other in check of. You know what? This sounds fine. You don't have to keep trying to fix this.

[01:54] CAMILLE MOJICA: How long have you been here?

[01:56] JEFF HREN: Me?

[01:56] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah.

[01:57] JEFF HREN: A year and two months.

[01:58] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay. You've been here a while.

[02:00] JEFF HREN: Yeah. You have been. Yeah, been. I've been here for, like, it was two years in October, so. Two years and two months.

[02:06] CAMILLE MOJICA: Oh, okay. Yeah, for some reason, that's longer than that.

[02:09] JEFF HREN: I was a guest a couple times. I was a friend of the show for coastline. Okay, so if you're a coastline listener, you probably heard me on there.

[02:15] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay, I'm nothing talking about.

[02:19] JEFF HREN: Story for another time. All right. I want to be respectful of your time because I know you've got Christmas Eve to do, so I will make with the speech. This is the these are the ground rules that one small step in story corps make us present. You both seem like very nice, civil people. I don't think we'll need it, but.

[02:38] CAMILLE MOJICA: They'Ve asked me to present these, please.

[02:40] JEFF HREN: So these are pretty good ground rules for, like, any conversation. I haven't had anyone violate those rules. So if 48 people can do it, I think the odds are in your favor. I think we can do this.

[02:59] CAMILLE MOJICA: Maybe.

[03:00] JEFF HREN: Maybe, yeah. Yeah. So the goal for today or this morning is for you guys to have open, honest, civil conversation. It's likely you'll disagree about stuff, and that's totally fine. We're not looking for you to win over someone about a particular political belief, but we want you to be free to express it. As the kids say, this is a safe space. You're not in trouble for what you believe, no matter where on the spectrum you are of political beliefs. But at the end of the day, our hope is that you sort of either see where the other person is coming for or see the other person as a person and agree to disagree. That's the whole project in a nutshell.

[03:44] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[03:44] JEFF HREN: So my goal is to stay out of the way of that.

[03:46] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[03:47] JEFF HREN: And we'll start with a couple of introductory questions that I'll ask you, and then at a certain point, I will leave you to the conversation, and I'll only really interfere if you're agreeing way too much.

[04:00] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[04:01] JEFF HREN: And we need, you know, we need to move on to something else. Or when we get towards the end, we have about five or ten minutes left, I'll kind of let you guys know, and we can do some closing thoughts and get you on your way to Christmas shop.

[04:13] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[04:13] JEFF HREN: And you on your way to work. Cool.

[04:17] CAMILLE MOJICA: Where's work?

[04:17] JEFF HREN: Right back there. So do you have any questions about any of this, any concerns? No. And so when we're done the recording, there's a little bit of paperwork to fill out, which you can do remotely if you've got to go for time. And that is mainly there's what's called an acknowledgement of risk, which just means you came here in person during the pandemic. Okay. I think this is a little silly, but they've had us fill it out. There is. There's a data sheet. This is for archiving purposes only, so this is not public facing information. You can add as much or as.

[04:55] CAMILLE MOJICA: Little as you want.

[04:57] JEFF HREN: And then there's the general release for Storycorp.

[05:00] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[05:01] JEFF HREN: And that is, again, not a decision you need to make today. I think they ask you to do it within a month.

[05:06] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[05:06] JEFF HREN: You can do it today if you want. Basically, this means, you know, you agree to let Storycorps archive this conversation in the Library of Congress. And that's in their folk collection, I believe. And if you guys have a good conversation, they may use excerpts in their promotional material in their attempts to recruit other people in the future to do this kind of stuff.

[05:25] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[05:26] JEFF HREN: And if you don't want them to do that, there are levels. You can say, yeah, archive it, but don't go ham with it. Or you can say, you know what? I don't feel comfortable with that at all. I'd rather it just be the experience we had today. And all of those options are fine. I don't have a dog in this fight, so you won't make me sad, regardless of what you choose. Cool. If you do choose the general release, either way, you get a copy of the conversation for posterity. But if you do choose to release it, I think it's four to six weeks. They'll send you a link that you can share with friends.

[06:00] CAMILLE MOJICA: Cool.

[06:02] JEFF HREN: All right, so that's pretty much my opening spiel here. So we're already recording, but I will clip off all this part.

[06:12] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay?

[06:13] JEFF HREN: No one needs to hear me explaining the rules. And what I will have you guys start with is we could flip a coin, or whoever wants to go first can go first.

[06:23] CAMILLE MOJICA: And just you go first. I'd rather you're used to this radio thing.

[06:27] JEFF HREN: Oh, okay.

[06:29] CAMILLE MOJICA: Sure.

[06:29] JEFF HREN: I can be a little bit of an example. Introduce yourself and say a little bit about, you know, your political beliefs. Okay. Doesn't have to be, you know, a treatise, but. All right. And then we'll go from there. Okay. Ready, guys? Yes. All right. Hi. My name is Camille Mojica. Ever since college, everyone just kind of calls me Camille which is totally acceptable. I would classify my political beliefs as on the continuum of left leaning. So I can be slightly left of center, or I can be pretty liberal with certain things, but I would definitely describe myself as on the left side of things.

[07:13] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay. Yeah. My name is Jeff Hren People call me Jeff. And Jeff is on my birth certificate. Not Jeffrey or anything else. It's Jeff. And I'm very. I consider myself to be very conservative. Okay. My mother was a social studies teacher, and so she's always growing up, it was always and more from the belief of people need to earn their own way, kind of thing is where it's centered. I would think, more than anything else.

[07:52] JEFF HREN: Okay, so my next question for you guys is, what made you want to participate in this project. I'm sorry.

[07:59] CAMILLE MOJICA: You okay? What made me want to participate in this project is United States. Across the United States, we can't talk to people anymore. And I look back in the times of the sixties and seventies and eighties, and there was a, there was a dialogue that was occurring, and that dialogue is no longer, is no longer occurring. I don't want it to be part of creating dialogue because sure, we can think differently, but there needs to be a, an understanding even if we don't agree.

[08:37] JEFF HREN: I think having been so, I'm 23, I was born in 99. So I have pretty much grown up mostly post 911 during the Middle east conflicts and then going forward, you know, into the Obama administration, the Trump administration, and now the Biden administration. So I have seen a, as a kid growing up, the lack of conversation between people who lean left and people who lean right. When I went to college, I will say I went to a very liberal university. I went to Boston University in Boston, Massachusetts. There's not really that much opportunity to talk to anyone who is conservative. And if they are, they're very closeted and will not say that out loud on campus, which kind of hurt my heart to understand that. Wow. We have reached such a point where people my age are afraid to say whether or not they are conservative because they're afraid of being ostracized by their own peers. So that's why I have seen that side of it coming from the, I guess the side that doesn't really have to deal with that kind of ostracization. So I kind of wanted to be part of the conversation because I was like, well, yeah, I mean, dialogue is really important, and we're not really having that at all.

[09:55] CAMILLE MOJICA: I find it interesting, you say. Cause one of the things that, as I watch news and. Right. I turned 60 this year, I'm starting to grow beard just to mark my 60th birthday. I'll shave it at 61. But that's one of the things I find very disheartening is on college campuses. A conservative goes there and they get boycotted or ostracized, you know, to speak, and they get shouted out in meetings and when there's something to learn there. Yeah. So I agree with you.

[10:35] JEFF HREN: It's, it's frustrating. I think it personally is frustrating.

[10:40] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah. Because if you get in a conversation with somebody, somebody thinks exactly the same you are. There's nothing to learn in the conversation.

[10:49] JEFF HREN: Yeah. You know, there's a lot of just agreeing. I think a little bit of conflict and challenge is necessary for both parties to understand why they believe in what they believe in. And again, to try and reach an understanding. You can't do that if there is already a mutual understanding and agreement. So.

[11:06] CAMILLE MOJICA: Right.

[11:07] JEFF HREN: If I could ask, is there any particular political belief you've had a, that you've had doubt about? You know, so as a conservative, something you doubt, and as a liberal leaning person, that you've had doubt about something that you've gone, hmm. I don't know if, I don't know if I agree with that.

[11:29] CAMILLE MOJICA: I got one.

[11:30] JEFF HREN: Okay. You go first.

[11:31] CAMILLE MOJICA: Then it's, I have grown up a anti abortion my entire life. And recently with the Supreme Court decision. Now let me say first, the Supreme Court from a civics perspective made the right decision recently regarding Roe versus Wade. The prior decision put the, and I'll explain this for a second. I dont want the Supreme Court being oligarchy. Right. And by doing, by making the decision earlier, they were legislating when they allowed abortion to occur in the United States. Okay. They were not looking at abortion from a pure, I want as a citizen, that decision should be made in the legislature because thats where our laws are made. Right. And so therefore, I don't want nine people telling the country what is right or wrong. That should be with the citizenry, the legislature. That's the right place for it. Now, the act of abortion itself. Right. I have been against that my entire life. But now that the Supreme Court made the right decision from a technical civic standpoint, I'm sitting here going, oh my. Are we as a people ready for this right decision? Because there's a mother there and that mother needs such compassion and such grace for the situation that she's in the, that when I look at the conservatives around me, are we ready to take that responsibility of providing compassion and care to a mother in great need? And that, so because of that, I found myself softening my year long, my years long position of, you know, that's wrong. You know that. So.

[14:06] JEFF HREN: Hm. I think for me it would have to be about the United States immigration policy as a whole. So for context, my dad is colombian from Bogota and my mom is from.

[14:23] CAMILLE MOJICA: You said Bogota, right?

[14:24] JEFF HREN: Yeah.

[14:26] CAMILLE MOJICA: I can't do that.

[14:27] JEFF HREN: It's just a little accent, that's all. And then my mom is from South India. So my great grandparents technically became my grandparents because they adopted my dad from Colombia to come here legally. Because now once he was adopted, he was their child, it was easier for him to immigrate here legally to do so. And he was in the fourth grade, dad went on to be a marine. Went on to go to architect school, go to design school. Now he designs clothes because the guys in his platoon told him he drew really well. So my dad made a really great true american life for himself. He believes that he has lived his american dream. He brought my mom over when they got married. Right. So again, my mom also came over here legally. She went, she waited. She did the whole process. My brother, from a different dad, same mom, was an indian citizen, and he waited until he was after 18 to apply for a green card here. He just got it 13 years later.

[15:28] CAMILLE MOJICA: Oh, wow.

[15:29] JEFF HREN: So my brother has done the process legally as well. When we talk about, you know, I think there's a little bit of fear mongering when we talk about our southern border. However, I have a lot of friends. I do have some friends that fall under DACA that are dreamers, and they have their argument of, well, you know, people are coming here because we claim to be a great country, because they're fleeing something else. Right? They're fleeing political strife, they're fleeing persecution, and they need somewhere better to go. And they're coming to the United States. That should say something about the United States, which I agree. I say, yeah, that says something really good about the United States. But for them, they're very, very strong on having more lax regulations on how we give citizenship to people, especially people who come here for asylum. For me, sometimes I would get hung up because I would say, yeah, I mean, these people are coming here for asylum. Let's help them out. And then a part of me would say, but my entire family did it legally. They waited. They went through their whole process. You know, they spent the years of strife, of the paperwork, the interviews, the visas, everything. Right? My family did it, quote unquote, the right way.

[16:50] CAMILLE MOJICA: Right.

[16:51] JEFF HREN: But in my heart, the reason why I still agree that we should make some sort of immigration reform is because I, in my heart, cannot find it to tell these people that they do not deserve to be american citizens because they have come here, quote unquote, illegally, through the border to escape something. You know, for me, I think if a mom is crossing the Rio Grande with her two kids. Cause she's trying to flee, you know, a government that's corrupt, that's run by drug lords, there's crime everywhere, to come here to have a better life, how can I tell her no, right? You know, who am I to sit there as an american citizen who has lived and had all the benefits? Tell her, no, you don't deserve that because you weren't born here, I just can't find it in my heart to say that. So that's where I've gotten a little hung up. But I think I still will lead.

[17:44] CAMILLE MOJICA: Toward, I think that that's one of the things that in immigration, I think theres a lot of room for liberals and conservatives to Im Jeff, im a simple guy. Right. When I just came back from Japan, when I came back from Japan, I went through immigration, naturalization, immigration, right. They wanted to make sure. So I think it makes sense that everybody should go through that kind of thing. The analogy would be, let's say I wake up when I go to bed at night, I lock the doors of my house, right. And then when I wake up in the morning, if all of a sudden I found my neighbor sitting at my front table having a coffee, okay, I'd kind of go, huh? You're welcome. But there's a way to get in, right?

[18:43] JEFF HREN: Yes.

[18:44] CAMILLE MOJICA: And so we need to make sure that our weight again. So I'm pro immigate immigration. I'm also pro wall because we need to know who's coming in as far as the people who are here, I'm not smart enough for that one. Right. And I think there needs to be more discussion there. But if you're going to come here, I want to know who's sitting at my kitchen table. I want to know who's there.

[19:13] JEFF HREN: And that's understandable.

[19:15] CAMILLE MOJICA: And so to your point. Yeah. There's a process to follow, and the process is horrible. Right. It's bureaucratic, it's long. It's. But there is a process. Process needs to be improved. Yeah, there's still a process. We need to know who's sitting at the kitchen table. You know.

[19:41] JEFF HREN: Is there any particular belief you have that you hold? You believe that and you feel like people misunderstand how you think about that or misrepresent how you think about that? Yes. I think for me it's two. So both of my best friends are lesbians. They are part of the lgbt community, and one of them is nonbinary as well. So she goes by she, her, and they them pronouns. They're my best friends.

[20:19] CAMILLE MOJICA: Help me out for a second.

[20:21] JEFF HREN: Yes.

[20:21] CAMILLE MOJICA: What does non binary mean?

[20:23] JEFF HREN: So nonbinary. So the binary, right. Basically means two. So the binary, you got the bath, right. Exactly. So you have man and woman. That's the binary. Someone who says they're non binary says, well, I don't subscribe to that. I don't have to be either or.

[20:39] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay, you can be both.

[20:41] JEFF HREN: And, yes, I can be both. I can be in between. I can be neither.

[20:44] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay?

[20:45] JEFF HREN: That's what non binary means. Means. I don't subscribe to that man woman binary, okay? It can mean a whole bunch of things. It just means not those two. So they're my best friends. Emma, who is the non binary friend? I've known Emma since I was five. I'm 23 now. That's almost 20 years of friendship, which is insane. Absolutely insane to me. Angelina. I've known Angelina since sophomore year of high school. Again, over eight years of friendship. Both of these people have an integral part to play in my life and how I've developed as a human being when I had no one else. I always had those two. I will always support candidates that support LGBTQ rights. Unfortunately, even if I agree with a candidate and suddenly they say, well, I don't support LGBTQ rights, whatever, I'm not voting for them. I cannot.

[21:41] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay?

[21:41] JEFF HREN: Because I love these two people so much. I cannot say that I love them and then go vote for someone who doesn't believe that they deserve rights. I can't do that because do I really love them if I say that? So I think sometimes people. People also get confused when I say that I am pro choice. Again, I think it's very important to make the distinction between pro choice and pro abortion. I don't think anyone is ever pro abortion. Like, hooray, let's have an abortion. That's not how people view it.

[22:15] CAMILLE MOJICA: You know, it's a strife, it's a struggle.

[22:17] JEFF HREN: It's a struggle.

[22:18] CAMILLE MOJICA: Oh, my goodness.

[22:19] JEFF HREN: Awful decision to have to make.

[22:20] CAMILLE MOJICA: Holy cow.

[22:22] JEFF HREN: So, again, I'm pro choice. But I think a lot of people in the religious community tend to label me as someone who views sin as, okay, I am a Catholic. I am a confirmed Catholic. I do believe. I pray, I do all that. But to me, I believe that my God, the God that I believe in, would not forsake his own children that way. Otherwise, why would he put us on the earth just to suffer for him to say, okay, well, I created you, but now I'm going to let you suffer and live in sin. Why would he do that to me? That doesn't make any sense. So when I say that I am pro choice or that I am pro LGBTQ rights, I'm not saying that I'm pro. Like, these people live such an evil lifestyle, and I'm totally on board with that. I don't think it's an evil lifestyle. I just want people to be able to be who they want to be and not be persecuted or bothered for it. And I believe the same thing for the other side. Leave conservatives alone. There's no need for persecution. Let them be who they want to be and who they're going to be. You know, live and let be. That's what I like to look at things. So those are the things that I hold that I think people tend to misrepresent sometimes.

[23:42] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah. I really don't know what to say as a dude. Right. I can't imagine the horror it has to be of waking up single and pregnant without plants. I can't imagine that. And then, therefore, decisions that need to be made. I can't imagine that. So I don't know if I ever write the speaker. Yeah, I am. If you want to put me in a camp, you can put me as religious, conservative, religious, church going, born again, saved individual. I've come a long way in this LGBTQ DQ thing over the years. Most recently. The thing I need to say, I would say is, I understand your friendship. I understand that so well, and that makes so much sense. Give us time. We've come a long way. Real quick. I mean, real quick. Right. Clinton, it was don't ask, don't tell. Obama's first few years was. And then all of a sudden, the doors went open, and we've had a change. We've had to make a change in how things have always been. You know, Ward and Beaver Cleaver back in the sixties to now. And so give us patience. You know, I learned a lot from conversations I had with actually a gay ex priest who actually became saved and joined our congregation. We met weekly just to talk back and forth. He was a buddy of mine, and we had the conversation about Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman because they were popular at the time. They were married at the time. And I chose Nicole and he chose Tom, you know, on worthy dating. But anyway, so. And that was really my first exposure on a deep, intimate level with someone who has that preference. But, yeah, no, give us time. Give us time. Because really, Jesus is about love, about loving and accepting other people. And if there's changes to be made in their lives, he makes it not us. And we don't do it in a political way. Jesus was not a political individual. He was a loving person. It's more. And a mantra that my family has is more important to be loving than it is to be right. Being right is easy. It's easy to be right. It's hard to be loving.

[27:28] JEFF HREN: You know, I will say I will have endless patience for people so long as there is a willingness to learn. I will say that.

[27:40] CAMILLE MOJICA: Take, and I think I need to learn this about people think differently than me, too, is when people get frowned with a new idea, our immediate reaction is to circle the wagons. Right. So I think there's a grace involved with both of us, of saying, of sitting there and going, oh, yeah, I gave you a new idea. You're reacting.

[28:06] JEFF HREN: Mm hmm. Yeah. You know, I think that's fair to say.

[28:10] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah. Because you give me a new idea, I'm gonna go, well, that's wrong. You know, that's the first thought that's in there. That's a little guy in the back of the head is gonna say, that's wrong. You know? So, yeah.

[28:23] JEFF HREN: Let me ask a very different kind of question. I'm curious if you could say something about someone or maybe two people who had a, you know, big influence in your life, sort of maybe set you on the path to be the person you are now. And if you leave someone out, then we will contact them.

[28:47] CAMILLE MOJICA: First the most. That's easy for me.

[28:50] JEFF HREN: Okay.

[28:51] CAMILLE MOJICA: I thought of my pronouns. Okay.

[28:54] JEFF HREN: Yes.

[28:54] CAMILLE MOJICA: My pronouns are his, hers, his. The person made the biggest impact in my life is Jesus Christ. I belong to him. He has molded me, shaped me, helped me become the person I am, hers. My wife, Wendy. We have grown together so much, and we're both different people because of our action. I was just thinking, when I get to heaven, Jesus is going to look at me, he's going to look at Wendy and go, well done. My good and faithful service because of who she has helped me to be. And then again, who I have helped her to be as we share this life together.

[29:55] JEFF HREN: That sounds like a wonderful marriage, though. It sounds like something everyone should strive to have in their marriage.

[30:01] CAMILLE MOJICA: But it's hard. Damn, it's hard. Oh, damn, it's hard.

[30:05] JEFF HREN: You know, I mean, I'm only 23, but, I mean, I'm sure it is.

[30:09] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah. But, yeah, it's. But it has been. We've got it good.

[30:17] JEFF HREN: I will say, I always say that I have four parents. I've got my mom and my dad, my stepdad and my stepmom. All four of them have influenced me very differently. My dad, he's a very funny person because my dad. Yes, the Marine Corps. He's about two inches taller than I am. When he was in the Marine Corps, he was his platoon leader. He was tough. No one bothered my dad, and everyone did what he said.

[30:47] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[30:49] JEFF HREN: And now my dad is a very soft, gentle, loving man who was like the epitome of girl dad. He was the one who did my hair every morning. He's the one who always wiped the tears. He was the one that took care of the scrapes and bruises on the knees. That is what my dad turned into being. So he taught me how to be soft, loving, patient and caring. My mom was a very hardworking woman, and she has been independent ever since she was very young. While I do think that there are positives and negatives to that type of lifestyle, my mom has taught me to accept no less than I deserve and to know my own worth in order to be able to determine what I do deserve and what I don't. So she's taught me to be very, very protecting over myself and my heart. My stepdad believes in work hard, play hard. Perfect practice makes perfect abilities. That is his whole thing. Practice means nothing. It has to be perfect practice every single time. So my stepdad was the one who taught me how to study how to do well in school, right? I was that kid that didn't have a job until I was 21, because he said, no, no, no. Your job is school. I'll pay for everything else. Your job is school. You get a's. Good for you, but that's your job. I'm not gonna congratulate you for that. Your job is school. So. Okay. So my work ethic comes from my stepdad. Now, my stepmom, she's like the second coming of Mother Teresa. She is so sweet. She's nice to everybody. Everyone. You know, she sees someone who's a little cold on the train. No. She takes off her gloves.

[32:36] CAMILLE MOJICA: Here.

[32:37] JEFF HREN: You have my gloves. She is the kindest woman I have ever met. And she was my dad's high school sweetheart. They found their way back to each other.

[32:45] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[32:46] JEFF HREN: And she has taught me to be kind to everyone, regardless. Despite. So those four parental figures that I have in my life and have had since I was very young have each had a hand to play in a different aspect of my personality that makes who I am today that you're sitting in front of.

[33:08] CAMILLE MOJICA: So who did you live with?

[33:10] JEFF HREN: Mom and Joe. So, my mom and my stepdad, they were my primary years old. Yeah.

[33:15] CAMILLE MOJICA: And then you'd visit your dad and stepmoms?

[33:18] JEFF HREN: Yes.

[33:19] CAMILLE MOJICA: Same area.

[33:21] JEFF HREN: So I grew up in Long island, in New York.

[33:24] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[33:24] JEFF HREN: And my mom was in Nassau county. She still is. Same house I grew up in. And my dad was in Queens, which is one of the boroughs that borders Nassau, so not too far. About 30 minutes away by driving. That's where my dad was.

[33:37] CAMILLE MOJICA: So not super far. I went to college at Kings Point.

[33:40] JEFF HREN: Oh, you did?

[33:41] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah. Okay, so, somewhat neighbors.

[33:44] JEFF HREN: Yes. I like this question a lot. Is there someone in your life or, you know, in the world who has different political views than you, but you still respect that person? My stepdad. My stepdad, he is a hard conservative. He's not religious, but he is a hard conservative. Um, when I was very moody in high school and all the hormones, and I was always upset and grouchy about something. Trump was also president. He was elected when I was in high school. So my stepdad and I, every single day at dinner, because our small dining table is in the kitchen, and there's a little tv by the stove. So he would be watching Fox while we're eating dinner. Every time someone would say something, I, you know, being a little fresh would roll my eyes, or I'd sigh or I'd scoff. And then my stepdad would ask me a question, and then I would approach the conversation very aggressively, and he and I would just fight over dinner. And at a certain point, my mom was like, you know what? No more tv at dinner. You two are not allowed to talk about politics at dinner because you're ruining it.

[35:01] CAMILLE MOJICA: So this is Mother Teresa?

[35:03] JEFF HREN: Yeah. No, no, this is my actual mom.

[35:05] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay. This is the actual mom.

[35:06] JEFF HREN: Yes. So, my stepdad, like I said, he's still a very hard conservative. I think he's very fair when it comes to certain things. Now that the older I am and the more conversations I've had with him to understand why he feels the way he does, I believe I can label him as fair in certain things. I don't believe he's fair, and he and I will disagree vehemently on certain things. But like I said, I think overall, he's a very fair person. My stepdad is a bit of a rags to riches story, and he pulled himself up by his own bootstraps. So I've seen it work. I know it doesn't work for everyone, but I've seen him do it. He is a very motivated individual. He has five kids, including me and my brother, his stepchildren. He's taken care of every single one of us as if we were his own biological kids. He loves us to death. Like, I can call him up right now. He would do anything for me. This man is so loving, so kind, and he believes that all of his children can be successful once they look inward and see what their strengths are and their weaknesses are and learn how to use that. I respect the hell out of my dad, my stepdad.

[36:18] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah.

[36:19] JEFF HREN: Because he is such a hardworking guy. Everything he has, he earned on his own dime. So, you know, again, while I disagree with him on certain things, like whether or not transgender people deserve their own bathrooms, I still respect him as a human being immensely, and I don't think that will ever go away.

[36:49] CAMILLE MOJICA: You brought up something in that. Fair. What is fair?

[36:55] JEFF HREN: Fair.

[36:57] CAMILLE MOJICA: And I'm not. I don't. I'm not trying to capture anything. No.

[37:01] JEFF HREN: Yeah.

[37:01] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah.

[37:01] JEFF HREN: Okay.

[37:02] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay, good. I just don't want you to. Don't want you to feel defensive or anything.

[37:05] JEFF HREN: No, no, not at all. I think when I. When I say my stepdad is fair, even though I disagree with what he has to say a lot of the time, my stepdad does his best to try and understand the other point of view. He does his best. So when he and I, you know, after Biden got elected, I asked him, I said, why did you vote for Trump the first time? And he said, well, he did every. He said he was going to do everything that I wanted a politician to finally do, right. So I voted for him. And I said, okay, well, how did you think that went? He was like, there were certain things that did not go well, I will tell you. And be honest. I think he's a buffoon, but at the same time, he ran this country like a business, and he did a really good job with the economy. Look at the numbers, Camille. You can't say he didn't, can you? And I'm like, okay, I guess I can't, you know? But at the same time, he's like, do I think he's a good world leader on the world stage? Absolutely not. No. I think his behavior is reprehensible. I think he's a liar. I think he's a cheat. But did he do well for this economy, which is what we needed at the time? So in that way, I can say that my stepdad is very fair. Again, he voted for him again. Cause he was not. You know, he didn't want to vote for Biden. He was like, I could not bring myself to Camille. I'm sorry. And he said, I think that's the same reason why you voted for Biden over Trump. Is it nothing? And I was like, absolutely. I could not find it in my heart to check his name off on the ballot box, even if I don't like Biden. And then my stepdad at the end will always say, isn't that such a goddamn shame? That at the end of the day, these are the two people we're left with.

[39:00] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah. You know, cause I can say that one of the proudest votes I ever made was Trump over Hillary Clinton.

[39:09] JEFF HREN: My stepdad says the same thing.

[39:11] CAMILLE MOJICA: It's one of the proudest votes I ever made in my life. Second time around, I was, week before, I couldn't tell you who I was going to vote for cause Biden was darn close, but I wound up pulling the Trump lever and I'll never pull that lever again. It can't happen. He's dangerous. He's a dangerous man. Yeah. Because I think fairness, right. Right. There's really two different ways of defining it. Right. But we'll go binary. Right. There's a lot of gray in between, but we'll go binary. One way of defining it is that you look at the circumstance and everybody's given what is quote unquote fair in their circumstance. Another way of looking at it is everybody plays by the same rules.

[40:26] JEFF HREN: Okay. I understand. Yes.

[40:28] CAMILLE MOJICA: Right.

[40:29] JEFF HREN: Yeah.

[40:29] CAMILLE MOJICA: And therefore fair. And I think our two political leanings, one of the roots of that is how you define fair. You know, fairness, you're looking at the circumstances or fairness, is everybody playing by the same rules?

[40:51] JEFF HREN: Wow. I didn't think about it.

[40:53] CAMILLE MOJICA: And the natural, you know, disposition towards things. What was the question originally asked again? Because I do not have an answer for it. And when you say, oh, I'm glad you led because I don't have an answer, but I don't want to teach you. I don't want to be, I don't want to cheat Kabil.

[41:09] JEFF HREN: So the question is, is there someone either in your personal life or in the public sphere who has politics that are different than yours, but you still respect that person?

[41:26] CAMILLE MOJICA: I have a more difficult time with people who call themselves conservative, I guess, who are not. Okay. Trump would be one of them. President Trump, we should, thats an arc of mine is when I watch the news and theyre talking about a president and they call him just by like Biden or Trump, we should put President Trump or President Biden even though theyre an ex president, you know, because thats their title. Right. And they should have that title instead of just being, you know, hopefully if they, if you guys refer to me on the air, it's Mister Ren, you know.

[42:12] JEFF HREN: Yeah, of course.

[42:13] CAMILLE MOJICA: You know, instead of just Hren you know. So President Biden or people who call themselves that, who are not, who are looking for political gain, I'm more, I guess, self critical for people who identify with what I think is right, you know, so, yeah, no, yeah, I guess I almost give liberals a hall pass. You know, I'm gonna bring it back.

[42:54] JEFF HREN: But I'll take it.

[42:56] CAMILLE MOJICA: I'll take it, you know, because, and don't take it from a conceited standpoint of give them a hall pass because they don't know any better.

[43:09] JEFF HREN: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[43:10] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay. It's more of a, it's more of a, they've had a different experience. They don't. But somebody who thinks similar to me, I'm much more critical on, okay, that's fair. I irked my friends who are, who are Trump fans. And I said, lets talk about our last conservative president. And they said, they go, whos that? I said, bill Clinton. And I said, why? So he balanced the budget. I said, sure, he got a lot of help from a Republican Congress and doing it. But if you get down to the bottom line, thats what were about as conservatives balancing the budget. Trump went the other way, President Trump went the other way, Obama went the other way, Bush went the other way. You know, they all went. So, yeah, I guess I'm much more self critical than on political leanings. So.

[44:10] JEFF HREN: All right, swing for the fence this time. Why do you think the american people are so divided right now? Or alternatively, is this not a new thing?

[44:23] CAMILLE MOJICA: What was this the alternative? What?

[44:25] JEFF HREN: Or alternatively, is that not true? Are we not more divided now than.

[44:29] CAMILLE MOJICA: We have been in the past? Well, I think I can say, excuse me for interrupting.

[44:35] JEFF HREN: Yeah, no, that's right.

[44:36] CAMILLE MOJICA: The question is why?

[44:38] JEFF HREN: A lot of people seem to believe that the american people are much more divided these days than they have been in the past. So if that resonates with you, why do you think that is? But if you don't think that's the case, you can say that too. I don't want to beg the question.

[44:51] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[44:53] JEFF HREN: You were running, I think, like I said, because I was born so close to 911 and basically lived my entire life post 911. Right. I mean, again, my dad was in the Gulf wars. That's why he was in the Marine Corps. I have only been able to see and like properly be aware of consciously of the american political diaspora for maybe the past eight or so years. Right. So I've only ever seen really the United States and been able to understand. Right. I'll make that clear with the Obama administration, starting with the Obama administration going into the Trump administration and now the Biden administration. So thats for kids my age. I think we have to keep in mind this is the only gap or area of political America that weve seen. And I think personally its gotten worse and worse and worse. I am a bit of an outsider with my friends when I say I dont think this division started with the Trump administration. I think it started with the Obama administration. I think the seeds were sowed in the Obama administration. I really do. But again, I can't really say much more because, you know, my stepdad, he's 72 turning 73. You know, he went to Vietnam at 18. Yeah, he lived through all of that, you know what I mean? So sometimes I ask him, I'm like, what was it like going to Vietnam and then coming home? You know, he doesn't really talk about Vietnam itself as much. But he's like, I came home and I had molotovs thrown at my head. I had shoes thrown at me. You know, people hated me. People hated me because I went over there, I was treated like literal subhuman trash when I came home by my fellow Americans. And for me, I keep thinking, and I'm like, have we been that bad? I mean, I think on the whole while, I don't think the United States takes care of their veterans as much as they should. I really don't. My partner is currently in the military. I, both my dads are vets. I don't know if, if vets from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were treated just as poorly. Like, I don't know, I don't know what political life was like back then. So I don't know if it's worse. I just know it's really bad right now.

[47:45] CAMILLE MOJICA: I think we've learned a lot from the Vietnam, how we support the troops thing. I think it's all cast from the Vietnam war era.

[47:53] JEFF HREN: Okay.

[47:55] CAMILLE MOJICA: Because we've learned our lesson as a country about how to treat people who have supported us in a war we support or the war we don't support. Still, they're carrying out their duties. I think we've learned a lot there. The roots, I think the roots of why we're, yes, I agree. We're divided. The roots are in two things that I see it. I think the media was incredibly harsh with President Bush, and I think it started back then as the first one. Clinton got some harsh treatment from the media, but that's just because of his philandering. Okay. But Bush was a good guy trying to do good things and he was really lambasted by the media. And I think Fox News grew out of that and that started the division. I think the second root of it is all the way back to President Nixon. Right. He was the guy, the first guy who started talking about a liberal media bias. They asked him, why do you think that is? He says conservatives are out building factories and bridges and stuff like that. And conservatives go into media, liberals go into media. And so the media kept moving liberal. I dont think Fox News was made out of any ideological construct. I think theres a bunch of businessmen that got smart and said, hey, we need conservative news and there's money to be made right now. I think CNN is like how they are or CNN, MSNBC is like how they are because they have a following that watches them and does their advertising. And Fox News is like they are because they have advertising and followers. I think it's more money driven right now and in a manner we're being duped.

[50:09] JEFF HREN: Hmm, that's interesting.

[50:14] CAMILLE MOJICA: I think we're, there's, yeah, there's the Fox says what they say and they have their evening people on because they want ratings. Yes, MSNBC does the exact same thing and they get the ratings that they want and they're making money.

[50:36] JEFF HREN: Am I allowed to ask questions? Are you the only person that's allowed to ask questions?

[50:40] CAMILLE MOJICA: I'm interested.

[50:43] JEFF HREN: Okay. So I guess that leads me down. The question of how. So first question.

[50:51] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay. Not that I have a good answer.

[50:54] JEFF HREN: Which news outlets do you typically like? If you watch news on the tv, what are you watching?

[50:59] CAMILLE MOJICA: I don't watch news on the tv.

[51:00] JEFF HREN: So where do you get your news?

[51:02] CAMILLE MOJICA: Washington Post.

[51:04] JEFF HREN: Okay.

[51:04] CAMILLE MOJICA: I read Washington Post. Listen to you guys.

[51:07] JEFF HREN: Thank you.

[51:09] CAMILLE MOJICA: And you know why I listen to you guys?

[51:11] JEFF HREN: Why?

[51:12] CAMILLE MOJICA: You tell the whole story. At least you try to, you spend five or ten minutes on a topic, you know, and sometimes it's, you know, banjos in South Africa, but you get the whole thing.

[51:29] JEFF HREN: Yeah.

[51:29] CAMILLE MOJICA: You know, so we used to be newspaper readers until the Star news. I saw the Star news out there. We used to be newspaper readers, actual physical newspapers until four months ago when they removed their opinion section and we said, okay, we want diversity of thought. If you guys aren't providing it, you know, and there's several things they kept on cutting back and cutting back. I feel sorry for them. Cause they have to for financial reasons. Right. So, yeah, so I get mine from Washington Post and NPR are my two main outlets. And then YouTube or whatever feed.

[52:15] JEFF HREN: Yeah, yeah.

[52:15] CAMILLE MOJICA: Recognizing that they're duping me towards conservative thought.

[52:22] JEFF HREN: Okay, so again, like, how does that make you feel? Because I'm always curious about this. As someone who does work for the media.

[52:32] CAMILLE MOJICA: Right.

[52:34] JEFF HREN: You do have this sphere of conservative news and conservative news outlets, and it's the same thing on the left. You have this sphere of liberal left leaning, like news outlets that very clearly have a bias. Either it leans right or it leans left. And this is like well known information.

[52:54] CAMILLE MOJICA: Mm hmm.

[52:55] JEFF HREN: What do you like? How does that make you feel about the media in general? The fact that we even have partisan media that exists like that, and that's so big. It's so big in this country.

[53:09] CAMILLE MOJICA: Well, it's not news. Right. If that's the case, a news what, in the sixties or seventies or even fifties, let's go back to like Dick Tracy.

[53:24] JEFF HREN: Okay.

[53:24] CAMILLE MOJICA: You had that gumshoe out there, you know, with the pencil behind his ear trying to get the story and digging to get the story, the news cycle so quick that you don't have the gumshoe out there, you know, getting to the bottom of things, the Woodward and Bernstein type of thing. You don't see that everything's a reaction. We talked about reactions earlier. Right. One of us gets, all of a sudden gets a new liberal. If I get a new liberal idea, my immediate thing is the walls are going to go up. Our media does the same thing. You get a new idea immediately. They're primetime people, whether it's matto or whoever's on Fox now, Carlson Tucker. Right.

[54:21] JEFF HREN: Tucker.

[54:22] CAMILLE MOJICA: They're just going to immediately react to what's there and not find out the why that's there earlier. My wife listens to BBC or watches me and gets BBC. That's her newsfeed. And so because she's, that I get her input from the BBC.

[54:44] JEFF HREN: See, that's so interesting to me. Cause you are the first conservative leaning person that I have ever met that has said no. I get the majority of my news from WaPo, from NPR. And my wife also watches the BBC. I'm so used.

[55:01] CAMILLE MOJICA: Wapo, Washington Post, right?

[55:03] JEFF HREN: Yeah, that's what we call it. Wapo. That's what the cool kids call it.

[55:07] CAMILLE MOJICA: I'm sorry.

[55:08] JEFF HREN: You can join the club. I'm so used to hearing, I get it from Oan Fox News, my political pundit, talking heads on YouTube, conservative political commentators on YouTube and social media. And that's where they're getting most of their news from. So I find it super interesting that you say that you do listen to NPR that much.

[55:33] CAMILLE MOJICA: Well, I listen to the news. The main programs are all things considered in the evening.

[55:40] JEFF HREN: Yes.

[55:41] CAMILLE MOJICA: And then Morning Edition.

[55:44] JEFF HREN: Yes.

[55:44] CAMILLE MOJICA: And I used to commute. I don't commute anymore, so I don't listen to you all as much. I work from home, but yeah, in the car or, you know, when it's newscast time, I get the five minute newscast, that kind of thing. Where do you get your news?

[56:02] JEFF HREN: Where do I get my news? A lot of different places I like to read still a lot. So again, I don't get the physical newspapers, but I do have a lot of subscriptions to the various newspapers from places I've lived as well as you know, there are just some other papers in other parts of the country that I'm curious about. You know, there are a couple in California, there's a Texas Tribune that I do like. And then I do get a lot of my news from NPR as well because I work for NPR station, I might as well. And I also like business news. But again, business news has also become very political, and different business news outlets have different sways on things. It's amazing to see, like, wow, the economy and numbers also have some sort of political sway. Can't believe this.

[56:58] CAMILLE MOJICA: This should be a math thing.

[57:00] JEFF HREN: Hello. Hello. I mean, you and I agree on that one. So I try to get my news from as many different places as possible. And I will say sometimes I do turn on YouTube and I will watch a segment of a Fox News show that ran the night before so I can see what they did the night before or what they did this morning. My stepdad is always sending me a bunch of Breitbart articles and stuff from Fox every day, and he and I will have nice conversations about it, really, because he's very receptive. And I try to get it from everywhere I can. But I also do like peeking into the other world to see how they're getting their news.

[57:43] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah, we don't have cable tv or any type of thing like that. Neither do I do now because college football bowl season, I need to get ESPN, right. So I'll get it for a month and then turn it off.

[57:59] JEFF HREN: That's the way to do it.

[58:01] CAMILLE MOJICA: But I like, listen, I'm such a strong conservative in my beliefs that if I listen to someone who one distorts it, it irks me. Or two, if I just listen to somebody telling me what I already know, then.

[58:29] JEFF HREN: Yeah.

[58:30] CAMILLE MOJICA: You know.

[58:30] JEFF HREN: Yeah.

[58:33] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah. It's not as exciting.

[58:35] JEFF HREN: Yeah. Well, we're just about at the end, and I know that you have Christmas shopping to get to, so I want to give you both a chance just to, you know, maybe a minute or so, give you just sort of closing thoughts, and then we'll pack you up. I just want to cut you off cold, right?

[58:54] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah, it is. I can't make the turn that quick. It looks like you're ready to go, Camille

[58:59] JEFF HREN: I've personally enjoyed the conversation. I think you remind me much more of the type of conservative that my biological and my stepfather both lean more toward. I think for me, when I think of the word conservative, I think of the conservatives that are more about my age or slightly older than me. I tend to immediately associate it with white supremacy and people who don't like members of the LGBTQ community. You know, like those people in Ohio with Patriot Front that were walking fully kitted out, ars and everything just to protest a drag reading event at a library. I think all of those worst case scenario things I associate at the very front of my head with the word conservative. I understand that that is a pitfall of myself, and I will do better to not do that as much and assume that every conservative believes that type of way of thinking. I really appreciated this conversation. It did open my eyes a little bit more, and I was. I don't know. I feel more like we're all just human beings past the labels, you know?

[01:00:18] CAMILLE MOJICA: And we're a mess. When you get right down to it, we're just all a mess. And people believe things for reasons. There's a reason that we believe what we believe about things. Yeah, there's a stereotype. I think there's grace that needs to be provided across the political spectrum, and I don't know how to get back there. You know?

[01:01:01] JEFF HREN: I don't think I have the answer either. I really don't know either.

[01:01:04] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah.

[01:01:05] JEFF HREN: But I guess conversations like this is a good step forward in that direction.

[01:01:12] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah, but more of them because.

[01:01:14] JEFF HREN: Well, yeah, more of them need to happen, for sure.

[01:01:15] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah.

[01:01:18] JEFF HREN: Well, I thank you both so much for this. Taking an hour out of your. Out of your day. Pretty incredible. Probably part of the reason we're in the pickle we're in is that no one has an hour to just take out of their day, so. All right, so a couple closing things. Again, this is totally optional, if you're willing. Storycorps asks that we take a photo if you're not.

[01:01:40] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah, sure. Yeah.

[01:01:42] JEFF HREN: I have to take my headphones off, though. I don't want to be like a little monkey.

[01:01:46] CAMILLE MOJICA: Let's see Jeff sitting here. Where? Do you want me to come around here? Yeah, please.

[01:01:50] JEFF HREN: Otherwise, I have to do, like, a super wide angle shot, and it looks weird.

[01:01:53] CAMILLE MOJICA: Then we'll be fat.

[01:01:56] JEFF HREN: To be candid, yes, I did. I mean, rectangles and it was. It was like a very, like, he was a, like a pretty fit, you know, like, 45 year old guy. And. And the woman he was with, she's like, I look fine, whatever. And he was like, I don't know about that photo. I thought that was funny. All right. Give you a one, two, three, go. All right, here we go. So much. All right. What I will do, since I know you have to get going.

[01:02:29] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah, I'll sign anything, is I'll get.

[01:02:32] JEFF HREN: These up and running.

[01:02:33] CAMILLE MOJICA: Here we go.

[01:02:34] JEFF HREN: Handy dandy iPads. Handy dandy iPads. Yes. I know. It belongs to my organization. It's the whole reason we're using it. I will say you guys are both permanent employees, right? Yeah. Yeah.

[01:02:47] CAMILLE MOJICA: Do you have, like, my boss really? So he said you had to be here today.

[01:02:58] JEFF HREN: Camille that's for you. Just gotta put it in your email and then it'll.

[01:03:02] CAMILLE MOJICA: Isn'T put in your staff. That's a conservative.

[01:03:06] JEFF HREN: I'm probably. Our business manager is a staunch conservative.

[01:03:09] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[01:03:10] JEFF HREN: Barbara Bush. Okay.

[01:03:12] CAMILLE MOJICA: She has a southern accent, right?

[01:03:14] JEFF HREN: Very southern. If you.

[01:03:15] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay. If you listen to the one that.

[01:03:17] JEFF HREN: Just comes plowing through during the pledge drive. Yeah, that's her.

[01:03:20] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay. Yeah, that's.

[01:03:23] JEFF HREN: And I'm probably closest. I mean, I'm a centrist. I'm a. I'm an affiliated voter. I have some very liberal viewers.

[01:03:30] CAMILLE MOJICA: I am independent, and I have some very.

[01:03:31] JEFF HREN: I have some very. I wouldn't say conservative views, but I grew up in a very conservative, you know, catholic household where I was pro gun. I was a hunter.

[01:03:41] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah.

[01:03:42] JEFF HREN: I'm still for conservative gun ownership. I butt heads with my liberal friends about that, but I also butt heads with my conservative friends because they talk about, you know, gun control being a slippery slope. And I'm like, now you know how women feel. Abortion. And also, I was like, look, I'm for gun control because I've driven in Wilmington, and I can extrapolate if you're that bad at driving, I don't want to give you another lethal weapon. You already have one. Okay. So that's for you. You got to put in your email and it'll bring up the forms.

[01:04:14] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[01:04:18] JEFF HREN: I would say I don't know what Ken's politics are. I feel like Ken's an old school Democrat. He seems like an old school Democrat to me.

[01:04:30] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah.

[01:04:30] JEFF HREN: I mean, one of the, you know, it's. To be candidates. It's hard to find conservative political reporters who don't want to go into the more show busy side of it.

[01:04:44] CAMILLE MOJICA: Okay.

[01:04:45] JEFF HREN: Because there's a. Like, I mean, you're not wrong. There's a. I don't want to put this on tape, but I agree with you that there's, you know, the financial incentives are somewhat perverse, but there's a market to be a certain kind of conservative commentator or a quote unquote conservative commentator. And it's not to be a journalist. It's not to be the gumshoe that you're describing. It's more like to have a YouTube channel and react to stuff. So Biden does something, and you're like, another bonehead mood from Biden. And, like, there's. But there's money in that, and it's. It's. And you also. You get to become a.

[01:05:20] CAMILLE MOJICA: That just work my way down. Yeah. Okay.

[01:05:23] JEFF HREN: And you. You know, it's awesome. And you get to be in. In your world, you get to be a bit more of a rock star. Cause you're a public facing person, you know, as opposed to a reporter who just does a lot of boring. Like, a lot of her work is a boring grind. It's not very. It's not very sexy. Yeah. That's why Camille was telling the other day about, like, her love of going over legal documents, which for reporters is just like catnip. It is. Everything's in there. But you can't imagine, like, a film about your life where it's just 2 hours of you pouring over legal motions. It should just be a time lapse. A time lapse of highlighting and looking through the documents. A time lapse would help. Are you retired? No, I am not. You are not.

[01:06:09] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah, you're way ahead of me.

[01:06:24] JEFF HREN: Okay, awesome. Now I have to do this one. Yeah. This is the less fun part, the paperwork part.

[01:06:32] CAMILLE MOJICA: Oh, of course. Well, when's the last time somebody said, hey, let's do some fun paperwork?

[01:06:42] JEFF HREN: Yes.

[01:06:43] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yes.

[01:06:43] JEFF HREN: That is. I feel that is true. What? No, I am not signing on behalf of a minor. I am not a minor. You are not a minor. I am not 23. Real quick, just grab something.

[01:06:59] CAMILLE MOJICA: Yeah, go. And leave the door open, and I'll leave this.

[01:07:01] JEFF HREN: It's warming me. It's feast or famine with art. Are you from Wilmington?

[01:07:16] CAMILLE MOJICA: I grew up in Ohio and then went to Merchant Marine Academy.

[01:07:21] JEFF HREN: Okay.

[01:07:22] CAMILLE MOJICA: And then from there, went to. I work for Ge right now with the nuclear.

[01:07:31] JEFF HREN: Oh, really?

[01:07:32] CAMILLE MOJICA: Side of the business. Yeah. I'm a project manager there, but.