Jeffery Puente and Ravneet Tiwana

[00:02] RAVNEET TIWANA: So, my name is Ravneet Tiwana I'm 40, and today's date is December 14, 2021. I am in Bakersfield at Upstart Village. The name of the interview partner is Jeff, and my relationship to Jeff is that Sonia introduced me to Jeff through one small step.

[00:25] JEFFREY PUENTE: My name is Jeffrey Puente. I'm 30 years old. Today's date would be December 14, 2021, in Bakersfield, California, at the upstart village. My interview partner is Ravneet, and my relationship to her is. She's my StoryCorps interview partner today, and I met her through Sonia.

[00:47] RAVNEET TIWANA: So, Jeff, what made you want to do this interview today?

[00:52] JEFFREY PUENTE: I really wanted to do this interview because I feel like I don't talk to a bunch, anybody, really, who seems to be on the other side. It seems to be like a lot of the people around me agree with what I seem to be with or to think politically or whatever like that. And so I felt like it would be nice for me to try to reach out without there any animosity or any kind of arguing, just to have a civil conversation with someone. And I heard about this, you know, story corps and so. Or this one small step. And so I wanted to do it, you know, because I was like, hey, I feel like. I feel like I can get to know someone based off who they are, not based off of a political background or anything like that. And so that's. That's what made me want to do it.

[01:43] RAVNEET TIWANA: Well, that's good. I commend you for that. You're already breaking stereotypes in my mind, because you are open to wanting to speak to someone on the other side, for sure. And you already saw the limitation of. Well, the people around me are those who agree with what I believe already. So let me speak to somebody who believes differently. And there's not going to be animosity. It's not going to be what we see kind of in the media, correct?

[02:06] JEFFREY PUENTE: Correct. Yes.

[02:08] RAVNEET TIWANA: Thumbs up.

[02:08] JEFFREY PUENTE: Yes. Okay. So, Ravneet what made you want to.

[02:16] RAVNEET TIWANA: Do this interview today so very similar to you? I wanted to speak to somebody who has beliefs that are different than my own. I think I'm surrounded by people who believe similar to what I believe. But I grew up in an environment where people believe very differently than what I believed, so I understand where they're coming from. I see the human side of it because they're very much like the people I went to school with, very much like the friends I had when I was young. I grew up actually more on the rural side of Bakersfield. I grew up on a farm, so I understand kind of where that belief system comes from. And so now, I had counterbeliefs then, but I think I've grown more strongly in them over time because I left the area. I went on to college in Los Angeles, worked in other areas. But I would say that growing up here, it's my roots.

[03:13] JEFFREY PUENTE: That's right.

[03:14] RAVNEET TIWANA: And when it's your roots, you see counter viewpoints, not from kind of the other perspective, but more so of, well, that's their belief system. Now, where does it come from that we need to understand more? So that's why I'm here.

[03:32] JEFFREY PUENTE: Awesome. And so, yeah, I agree with that. That's cool. I'm glad that you come from here. So you understand that it's a lot different here with our culture. It's just I don't. I think us not agreeing is normal and healthy on a lot of things. You know, that's just how humans are. We're not all the same. So.

[04:01] RAVNEET TIWANA: So I'm going to read your bio now, Jeff. So this is Jeff's bio. Hello. My name is Jeff. Like the meme, I'm from California, but not your typical californian. I was raised by my grandparents, for which I'm extremely gracious. I technically have two siblings, but only interact with my brother. I started making children kind of early, and they are my world. I'm interested in reaching out to someone with different opinions and political backgrounds. It is extremely important that we do not lose our ability to communicate with each other, especially our neighbors. So what stood out to me here, Jeff, is the importance of communication. And I feel like part of that comes from you being raised by your grandparents. And so when we're raised by older adults, they have a more prolonged lived experience that they bring to raising us. And part of that is their experiences with relationships and their experiences with the importance of communicating through difficulty. And so I was wondering if you could speak more to when you say, we need to not lose our ability to communicate with each other, especially our neighbors, how do you think we could communicate productively where we feel like not othered by people whose belief systems sometimes we feel like are degrading our well being.

[05:33] JEFFREY PUENTE: Right. So I think in treating everyone like they're your neighbor, you know, even now I see it where the neighborhood I live in, we don't really talk that much. You know, people used to say hi a lot more and used to not say, be in your business, so to speak. But they would, you know, communicate with you a little bit more. And I started to see that that was kind of dwindling away, you know, and so, you know, I feel like I personally can have a conversation with anybody. I don't, it doesn't really matter to me. You know, we can get into a lot of the political things and have a debate, so to speak. But, you know, like, because I was raised by my grandparents, I was always raised to be with people. You're still human, you know, no matter what you think or what you believe, you're still a human being. And I got to give that respect due. And then most of the time I get treated like a human too. So there's no reason for me to want to argue with people based off of political background or religious belief or anything like that because you probably like pizza or you probably like cheeseburgers or certain drinks that I may like. We might have a lot more in common than we don't. And so that's what I feel like, you know, you're my neighbor, you're local, your family's my neighbor, you know, so we all need to be able to get along. So that's why I wanted to do it.

[06:58] RAVNEET TIWANA: That's good.

[07:01] JEFFREY PUENTE: Okay, so I'm gonna read Ravneet's bio. I'm a first generation south asian female, specifically Punjabi Sikh from a working class background who was raised in Kern county, specifically Arvin, in Bakersfield, California. I also grew up on a farm and left Arvin, California to attend undergraduate and graduate schools in Los Angeles, California. At Occidental College and UCLA, I was able to leave because of financial aid offered, otherwise I would have stayed in the area. Like many of my classmates, I consider Kern county as home. Okay, so what stands out to me, which would be, you went to UCLA, which I think is awesome because that's, I hear, you know, I didn't finish college or anything like that. I'm a high school graduate in some college, so I thumbs up to that. That's awesome. But you also say you grew up on a farm outside of Arvin, which I have connection to. My brother grew up in Arvin and went to school there. So how was that growing up on a farm? Because I didn't get to experience that as a younger kid. How was that for you?

[08:19] RAVNEET TIWANA: I would say first I grew up in area in Arvin mostly until about the age of twelve, and then we moved to the farm. It was interesting growing up in Arvind because I was kind of like the only south Asian, but a lot of folks would think that I was Latinx and so they would come up to me and start speaking Spanish. And so I very much know how to say, and, no, I'm indian and Spanish and what that means. Or there was the local market owner who was from Iraq, and so people thought he was my dad. And so I think there was, like, a point of, like, growing up wherever I felt, like, color wise, I blended in with my community there. But when it came to culture and religion, there was a bit of otherness there. So it was this really weird dynamic of growing up in an immigrant community where in some spaces, you feel very much aligned and attached to the people around you, but then you feel so different, and it's hard for others to understand how you could be so different. And your life at home is very different than what your life is like with your friends at school, the things you're talking about. And so, you know, like, there were, like, things where we'd come and we'd have, like, oh, present your culture day kind of thing. And so I remember doing that. And my grandparents lived with us, so I grew up in a multi generational home, and my grandfather, he would walk us to school. School. And so I remember, you know, walking to school and doing that whole thing, and people thought he. Because he wore a turban, people thought he was a genie. So, like, I think it was more like they were being derogatory towards me. Like, they'd be like, oh, can we rub your dad, your grandpa's head? He looks like a genie, and things like that. And that kind of just stuck with me through time. And then there was a point where he went to India for a little bit to visit family, and I had a friend, and I thought we were such cool friends. And, I mean, I still consider, you know, her and him to be my friends from my childhood because I have some great memories with them. But this is part of, like, to show the example, one of the memories I have is, like, I missed my grandpa so much when he left because he was. My parents were working, and he was the one that was taking care of us, him and my grandma, more him. Like, he walked with us to school and would have conversations with us. And I remember my friend saying, oh, your grandpa's gonna come back. I heard he's coming back. He's gonna ride in on an elephant. And I literally had dreams of my grandfather riding in an elephant as a little kid. But at the same time, I thought, why is my grandpa the only one riding in on an elephant? Like the circus, not other people's grandpas are riding in on a cardinal know other things like that. So I think growing up on a farm as well, like, I still went to school in ARvn. It's a tight knit community. Like, people who I went to preschool with, I went to high school with. So we saw each other throughout that time period. There's also like a, there's more like a looking out for each other as well. Because when we, we know kind of the dynamics in Arvna, it's an underserved community. We know, like the drug problem in Arvin and all those things that happen. But I never felt like somebody was gonna attack me there. And I mean, I still remember there was somebody who offered drugs, but they were kind of like, oh, I don't think it's gonna work with this one. And so they kinda just move on. But I know in Bakersfield, they had, like, the larger idea of what Arvin was like for people growing up outside of the area, or just living outside of the area was like, oh, it's so bad out there. This is what's happening. They have gangs on the streets and there's drug selling and this, and you see some of the big houses, it's the drug dealers, things like that. But I would say overall, I feel like my value system is from that experience, from kind of growing up in the farm, growing up in arvinous, being in a small community and just like seeing the same people over time.

[12:38] JEFFREY PUENTE: Right, right. Not having to, I guess. I guess, would it be, maybe you can agree being on the farm kind of gets you away from that sometimes. You guys are away from a lot of the stuff going on within the city, so you guys are kind of get to be home and like you said, talk about stuff separate than you would be talking about at school with your friends and stuff, I think that's important too, though, because, you know, I was raised in latino households, so we would do menudo and tamales all the time during Christmas. And, you know, I grew up in a neighborhood kind of similar to that. And I think it's just ignorance is a lot of it. You know what you're talking about, because I remember that kind of stuff, too. And really, you know, not wanting to participate in any of that, but a lot of people, you know, it's just like the thing to do and it's really not, it's really not nice is what it really is, you know, so sorry. Sorry. That that was your experience, really am.

[13:44] RAVNEET TIWANA: But, you know, when you asked about, like, growing up on the farm as well, like, when I went to school in LA. And I think in the beginning, I was really excited. I was like, I'm gonna leave this area. I'm gonna go to laden. And then I was like, oh, my God. I used to come home on the weekends all the time because I missed the lifestyle on the farm. I missed the lifestyle of, like, not having to battle the traffic all the time. And there was, like, when I left, it felt kind of like a new world out there. And this felt more like home. And so even if, you know, sometimes people will say things about being from Bakersfield, so I'm like, but it's home. It's home. Once home is home, wherever home is.

[14:25] JEFFREY PUENTE: It smells like cows out here.

[14:27] RAVNEET TIWANA: Do you go cow tipping? I'm like, I don't even know what cow tipping is. You're the first person to tell me what cow tipping is.

[14:33] JEFFREY PUENTE: That's right. That's funny.

[14:36] RAVNEET TIWANA: Okay, so tell me about one or two people in your life who have had the biggest influence on you. What did they teach you?

[14:47] JEFFREY PUENTE: Number one, my grandmother. So I was raised by my grandmother, my mother, and my. Well, I don't know my father. I know of him, but he was never around. So I grew up with my mom for a little while, but she kind of went her own way for a little bit, decided to do other things. And so I was with her mom, with my grandma, a maternal grandmother, and she took me in from, I'd probably say from about five to six years old all the way up to about high school around that time. So she was a huge influence on me because I would go to church with her. I learned how to be spiritual. I learned how to respect people. And then with my grandfather, I learned how to work, I learned how to make money, how to provide, how to cook some things. Not a great cook, but those two grandparents were huge influence on me because I could have gone into foster care or I could have gone into some other sort of orphanage type program where, who knows, you know, what could have happened to me at that point? And they actually took me in, raised me and made something out of me. You know, I can't say greatest, but really drilled it. That school was important, you know, that finishing school was important. Going to college, getting a degree was utmost importance. And at the same time, having some sort of spiritual, you know, anchor. And, you know, I think that's real important to me in my life because I've strayed away from a lot of that stuff. You know, in my teenage years, my early adult years, got myself into a few troubles, so to speak. And you know, whether people believe certain things or not, having those belief systems, for me is foundational. It keeps me, you know, it keeps me down from, you know, doing things that'll get me in trouble, doing things that'll stop me from providing for my children, stuff like that, you know, drugs and stuff like that. So that's why, you know, I have my grandmother's name and her dates. She passed away in 2007. I have her and her dates tattooed on me. And my grandfather, he's still around. So, you know, I don't. I really don't have any other people that I could say have influenced me as much as they have. There's a lot of other important people in my life. My mom is in my life, obviously, my kids, their moms, my brother. There's a lot of important people. But for sure, my grandparents, grandmother, and grandfather were the best. You know, I learned a lot from them.

[17:56] RAVNEET TIWANA: So you spoke about, like, spirituality being an anchor in your life, and you spoke about how when your grandma was, like, probably forcing you to go or, you know, trying to get you to go, it didn't. You didn't, it wasn't something that you kind of embraced fully at that moment. But later on in life, you're seeing how much of an anchor it is in your life. It provides you direction. I feel like sometimes, you know, seeds get planted. Are there other seeds that your grandmother has planted in you when you were a teenager that you see flourishing more now?

[18:34] JEFFREY PUENTE: With my kids, I think, yeah, being a father, you know, because I obviously, I didn't know my father growing up, so that was kind of, you know, alien to me. I didn't know what that was like. So I didn't care to not, you know, not have him around and to really show me the importance of being a father, because even, even now, you know, there's a lot of things that happen, and a lot of fathers are not in their children's lives for whatever reason. And so I was kind of, you know, wanting to, no matter what happened, to be a good father and no matter what that takes, you know. Yeah, definitely having that spiritual anchor is what was key. But not only that, just being a good father, being a good person, a good human, I learned that from them. I wouldn't have learned that from the closer generation. It definitely has to be from your grandparents.

[19:35] RAVNEET TIWANA: That's good.

[19:37] JEFFREY PUENTE: Tell me about one or two people in your life who have had the biggest influence on you and what did they teach you?

[19:45] RAVNEET TIWANA: So I would say it would be my mother and my maternal grandmother. So we use the term bibi, so I speak Punjabi, so we call her Bibi.

[19:57] JEFFREY PUENTE: Awesome.

[19:57] RAVNEET TIWANA: And so I would say with my mom, I feel like your first teachers are the divine power and your mother, or whoever is the maternal figure in your life or the caring, the person who's caring for you. And so I think being first generation and seeing how hard she's had to work in the United States to provide for us through life. And life has its ups and it has its downs. She's kind of. Her nickname is Pole, which means a softie. But this softie has had to, had to do a lot of work in life, a lot of laborious work, too. So I've seen her stick it through. I've seen her still have aspiration in her life. I've seen her be resilient. So she went from working in the carrot factory to being a CNA to working in the lab at the carrot factory, wanting to be a supervisor at the carrot factory, but not happening. But I sticking the course. And then she started working at the lab, and now she works at the post office. And so I think it's that resilience, that persistence. And then there's also language. So English is not her first language. And I saw her battle that and how it would at times take a toll on her self confidence. But then she had a, she has a real strong, like, underlying belief. And I think it's the spirituality to kind of say, no, I can learn it, I can go for it, I can try it, it's okay. If it, if it doesn't happen, it's okay. At least I try to have no regrets. And so I would say those are some big things I learned from her and being likewise a good person. So she talks about how the elderly and animals, they're some of the most. They need your service the most, they need your help the most. So if we think of, like, animals or dogs, for example, we call them dervish, which means that they're completely reliant on other people. Like, if somebody feeds them, they get fed. If somebody gives them water, they get water. So it's like holy work to give somebody who needs kind of that internal, like, real help. Like, if they can't walk and pick up the mail and you take the mail to them, it's a couple extra steps. That's holy work, that's spiritual work, and it's feeding your soul. And so we have the belief that your soul gets reincarnated. And so it's this idea that in each life, your soul needs a certain kind of education or experience. And so she feels like, and if you fulfill that, it's like good karma moving forward. So if you're gonna be a dog, then maybe you'll be a poodle, you know, so somebody will be taking care of you, giving you that fancy chicken and stuff. So I would say her, and then next would be my BB or my maternal grandmother. And so when I was born, she took care of me. And so it's part of our culture that your maternal grandmother initially takes care of you. And so for, like, a month or so. And so then my mom and I migrated to the United States. And so my mom would write her and she would write my mom back. And then she immigrated here, and she was an older adult when she immigrated. And she worked hard. She worked in the carrot factory. She was determined to get a home. And so her and my grandfather, they got a home. Like, even though it was really hard to work in the cold carrot factory, not knowing the language, I would literally write out things in English, in our Punjabi language, in our script, so she could go and say she needed a day off to her supervisor and she could read the script. So that was the way we taught her how to write her signature. So that kind of, like, really deep kind of resilience and persistence and hard work with, like, a big heart. A big heart for everyone and seeing that humanity in other people. Like, there's one lesson that kind of comes up over and over again for me from both of them would be that at the end of the day, my mom would be like, we live under one sky, and so no one's living above that sky and coming down occasionally and then going back up. So just remember that we're breathing the same air, so no one's below you and no one's above you. And so that's kind of something that stayed with me. So you give respect to the same kind of respect to everyone. It's the human thing to do.

[24:46] JEFFREY PUENTE: Right. You definitely will get the same kind of respect in return. And then. Yeah, that's pretty neat. So how old were you when you guys, when you migrated here? You said you were just a few months old.

[25:00] RAVNEET TIWANA: Yeah, I was an infant.

[25:02] JEFFREY PUENTE: Okay, so was it easy? Were you taught English first, or were you taught your native language first?

[25:09] RAVNEET TIWANA: So good question. So I taught my native language first.

[25:12] JEFFREY PUENTE: Yeah, for sure.

[25:13] RAVNEET TIWANA: So Punjabi. So I went to preschool not knowing English.

[25:17] JEFFREY PUENTE: Right. Okay, so how was that for you growing up with learning the english language? After that, I guess a fairly young age.

[25:25] RAVNEET TIWANA: Yeah. So there's like, one really big memory I have in my head of where. So, you know, we would get, like, a. The teacher would. We would be out for recess, and the teacher would call us and we would line up. And on my first day of school, I didn't understand what was being asked of me. And so. But my teacher saw me, and so she, like, brought me over, and I knew that this was my teacher, but I didn't understand what she was saying. And then I think it was difficult to make friends initially. And I remember I had a teacher, Miss Maria, and we were on the playground, and so I was a little bit of a shy child. Like, it wasn't that I wasn't. I like to, like, talk to people. I like to, like, play on the playground, those kinds of things. But I had a little bit of, like, reservation to me. And then on top of that, you add in the language. So I couldn't really communicate outside of using my own home language. And so miss Maria just got it. She saw that I was just hanging out there, like, by myself, and all these kids were playing on the playground. So she came over and we went down the slide together. She, like, helped kind of, you know, she was, like, the social navigator. And so she, like, helped me make some friends that could feel the vibe rather than the language. Right. So those were some of the initial memories I have. But I was young, so I think when you're younger, you learn language much more quickly. So I think the struggles were different compared to, like, say, my maternal grandmother.

[27:04] JEFFREY PUENTE: Correct.

[27:05] RAVNEET TIWANA: Watched a lot of tv, a lot of cartoons, but, yeah. So those things, like, stick in my head.

[27:12] JEFFREY PUENTE: Right? Okay. That's awesome. I'm just curious, like, how, I guess, how long, because I was, I was adamant about not learning Spanish. My grandmother and my grandfather, my grandpa migrated here from Mexico, so he doesn't speak a lick of English. It's very hard to understand anything he says. Like, my name is Jeffrey. He says Jeffrey with a Y. There's no j, you know, so it's real difficult to understand him. And they would, you know, you gotta learn Spanish. You gotta learn Spanish. And I never really, really wanted to because I was here already and we speak English in school. And so just people who speak, who are bilingual or speak more than one language, it just blows my mind because I never was really able to get that people speak their native language. Like, it's nothing. They turn around, they speak in English, and it just, I can't click to that for some reason. So I find that really, really fascinating.

[28:14] RAVNEET TIWANA: Well, it's never too late.

[28:17] JEFFREY PUENTE: Some Rosetta stone or something.

[28:18] RAVNEET TIWANA: Yeah.

[28:19] JEFFREY PUENTE: Yeah.

[28:19] RAVNEET TIWANA: You could always, you know, if you want to learn Spanish, you could always.

[28:22] JEFFREY PUENTE: Do it, you know, I guess it's different, you know, learning it culturally than learning it through books. Literature. Yeah, through literature, for sure. It's definitely different. Yeah.

[28:36] RAVNEET TIWANA: Could you briefly describe in your own words, your personal political values?

[28:42] JEFFREY PUENTE: Okay, so I guess I would be considered right of center. Just right of center. So I would consider. I guess I don't want to say I know the terms, but conservative would be where I guess I would lean. I'm not. I guess I would be a liberal 50 years ago. You know, a long time ago, I would have been more liberal. I feel like now I'm more. I'm considered more conservative just because of where, you know, if they're throwing us, if we're darts and they're throwing us on the dartboard, I would land right of sinner just based off of mostly taxes, less government stuff that I think, like, my grandparents are old school Democrat. There's no prying them from that. And that's how I grew up. You know, I grew up in wanting to be democratic party and stuff like that. But then, you know, I don't really want to consider myself a Republican either because, you know, based off of my spirituality. It's all wrong. You know, everything that they both do, both sides do, or any of them do is wrong. But if I'm gonna vote, you know, I tend to agree with republican side more, but not all the time. You know, there's certain times where I have voted for, I guess you would say, a libertarian or a Democrat based off of policy. And so I don't really want to say I'm not an extreme anything. I can't be extreme to one side or the other, but definitely right of center conservative thinking. I listen to certain conservative talk radio, but I listen to other. I listen to NPR sometimes, too, stuff like that. So it's. I listen to a variety of things, and I don't really, like, let one side influence me more than the other. I try to be critical thinker and think about it, but, you know, I don't, I wish there could be a new party or a new system or a new way to do this because I find, like I was telling you earlier, a lot of people that I work with that I interact with, not necessarily friends, just people here locally kind of tend to agree the same way politically on a lot of things. And that just kind of made me think, well, is that their background, you know, do they really come from this conservative thinking, or is that just the way the pendulum is kind of swinging? So I've always kind of felt like I'm right of center where I guess I don't, you know, we don't have to go down any of the issues, but where they talk about either taxes or abortion or I, civil rights, I guess I tend to land on what they would call the right side, you know, right wing side. So that's why I felt like this is an important thing because I know a lot of people who don't agree with me politically but won't say it because we don't want to argue. We don't, you know, it's when we bring up politics out in the real world or when we bring up anything, it's kind of like, oh, you believe that? Maybe, you know, you kind of get a label put on you and no one wants that. No one wants that kind of label put on them. So we kind of tend to avoid those conversations if we don't know the person. And I think that something like this program here is a chance for me to kind of reach out and say, hey, you know, maybe it's not like you say, they say it's not like anything on the media. You know, we're all human beings. You're human. We have a lot of similar background. And I think that that's really, really more important than me sitting here. They're saying, you know, I'm right of sin or I'm a Republican or a libertarian, but yes, that's where I fall. Sorry, I didn't mean to go that far into it, but that's pretty much it. So can you briefly describe, in your own words, your personal political views?

[32:44] RAVNEET TIWANA: Sure. So I would say my political affiliation is with the Democratic Party, but I would describe myself as socially liberal. So when it comes to social policy, I'm on the liberal side. I wouldn't say I'm a far liberal, but I'm a pretty liberal on that side. And then when it comes to finances, I would say the Democratic Party, the far left, would consider me conservative, but Republicans would consider me liberal. And so I'm kind of center left, but pretty like not just like left, like left, like here, but not too far to the left.

[33:30] JEFFREY PUENTE: So would that be considered, like, moderate? I guess I'm trying to figure that whole thing out.

[33:34] RAVNEET TIWANA: Okay. I would say probably moderate when it comes to finances, fiscal, and then socially liberal. I just think there needs to be more accountability for the funding that's given to social programming. And I think part of that is my background. So I do program evaluations. I look at effectiveness, and I see the amount of money that's put into programming, and I think there should be some results that are shown for it, and so that should be a part of it. But I think the reason why we give the money is good, and we should go down that. My personal belief is we should go down that direction. But your point about how it's, we're all humans. At the end of the day, I do think many people with my viewpoint sometimes shut out people who have an opposing viewpoint. That's what I have found when I've left this area. And what comes to my mind is I grew up with people like that. So I know that we can't vilify them to the degree that are all of them. We can't vilify all of them to the degree that we do, because some of the kindest people to me when I was growing up are people who are republican, conservative. And I think we're not supposed to get into politics. But I'll say that there. There was a. There was kind of the respectfulness of being a Republican, kind of the humanity of being a Republican. That's who I grew up with when I was younger. And so those kinds of values of, like, seeing the humanity in others but still being, oh, it's okay to have an opposing viewpoint. We have families where people have multiple differing viewpoints, but at the end of the day, we're still a family. And what is a family that we look out for each other's well being. At the end of the day, we have the best of intentions. Our perspective could be different. But I think on either side, you know, either party. Cause we have this two party system. On either side, you can have people who do not have good values, you know, who are not looking really out for the wellbeing of others, maybe more so for themselves. And so I think that goes on both sides. I think if we could get to a place where we could stop vilifying each other all around and sit down and have a more thoughtful conversation, I think we could come to a place of agreeance. It may not be 100% what one side wants or the other side wants, but it could be a place that we could live. And I think that's what we're all trying to do in this world is just live, coexist. Yeah. Yeah.

[36:32] JEFFREY PUENTE: Well, I think that that's a lot of us. You know, I feel like a certain percentage of people on both sides of the aisle, so to speak, are the louder ones. And most of us sit closer to the middle where we're just, you know, taking the, taking the force from both sides, taking the push from each side. And it's really kind of sways us to a position where we don't want to, where, you know, whether you get put in a position like everything gets politicized, you know, it shouldn't be that way. It shouldn't. A weather event or a pandemic or all these things shouldn't be politicized. And immediately they go to it and it puts us, it pins us to one side or the other. And it, you know, when we really should be on the same side to come to the conclusion that's going to really help everybody and benefit and the greed on both sides seems to pull us away from that each time.

[37:30] RAVNEET TIWANA: Yeah. Yeah. So do you ever feel misunderstood by people with different beliefs than you and how so?

[37:47] JEFFREY PUENTE: I personally don't feel misunderstood. I feel like it's more of a predetermined notion. Meaning, okay, hey, you're side with this side, or I'm automatically going to either shut you out or just not listen, hear you, but not listen to you. And I kind of experienced that a little bit. Not too much where, you know, I don't mind telling somebody what I agree with or politically, you know, I'll tell someone if they ask. Or I might have something that might identify me as an american flag or something on my shirt that might put me on one side. But I feel like a lot of other people who may tend to believe, like me, definitely either on social media, because I don't use social media. I don't use a Facebook, I don't use the Twitter. I don't use none of that because of a lot of it, I think is fake, meaning I think a lot of it's computer generated responding to really irritate you. But a lot of it, too, isn't, like, isn't sincere. You know what I mean? It's easy for me to text, to reply to something that you type and just to really irritate you. And so I think a lot of people on social media who tend to believe what I believe get shut out right away or get labeled as haters or get labeled as whatever it is, when that's really not the case. You know, there might be a few just like, on, you know, I guess, the left side or the democratic side. There's definitely a few people who we would consider the same, you know, extremist, but it seems to be where everything is, is social media now. And it seems to be like it's going, you know, you gotta shut republican side down or you gotta shut, if you agreed with Trump or if you even say Trump, it just lights people on fire now. And so I think that is where I feel like were left, or I'm kind of left in the social dark, so to speak, you know, because if I were to, let's say, get on Facebook or get on Twitter or go repost something of somebody that I agree with, I would get banned. I would get labeled as a extremist or labeled as false news or fake news or whatever it is. And it's like, well, you know, a lot of that stuff's really not the case. You know, a lot of us are just trying to inform or trying to be a normal person and learn the truth, you know, about COVID and learn the truth about what happened to certain things. So, yeah, we get labeled pre, you know, early on before we have a chance to respond. And I feel like that's not, it's not fair, especially here in the United States, where, you know, every, it's a melting potential. Everybody from different cultures, from different backgrounds, you know, needs to come together and voice their opinions. And so, yeah, I feel like that's definitely sometimes a problem.

[40:59] RAVNEET TIWANA: Do you think some of that comes from, like, that feeling? Well, I think it's, you know, if you feel like you're being stereotyped up front that that's part of where it comes from. But could the other thing be, is it, is it something you're feeling or experiencing, or is it what others are telling you that this is what we are experiencing?

[41:20] JEFFREY PUENTE: You can kind of see it, you know, like, so, for instance, I listen to a lot of conservative talk radio and media and stuff like that, and you go onto some of these platforms like YouTube or anything like that to search for them. And they're, I don't know the word for it, but they're, you have to search really hard to find, find what you're looking for, you know, and if I'm looking for a CNN thing or MSNBC thing, it's immediately at the top. You know, they almost filter out, or I don't know the word that I'm looking for, but they almost make it harder for someone to find content that you're looking for online rather than just having it available based off of some search criteria.

[42:04] RAVNEET TIWANA: Right.

[42:04] JEFFREY PUENTE: How many people look for it or how it used to be some other algorithm? And so it almost seems like no I see it on, you know, where I, it's like, why do I have to, I guess, subscribe to what you would consider a conservative news? And there's articles that I read on there and stuff like that that aren't even on, you know, what you would, NBC or CNN's websites. And then a lot of it, too, is like, if I say to someone, oh, I listen to, let's say a conservative talk radio host, you know, x, y or z, it's like, well, yeah, you know, you're fed all this trash. You're fed all this garbage. And it's like, well, you know, I could say the same thing to the stuff you're listening to or the stuff you're getting, but it really, it doesn't happen to me a lot, but I definitely do see it. You know what I mean? I definitely do. Do you ever feel troubled by people with the same beliefs as you, people on your own side and how they communicate those beliefs to others?

[43:15] RAVNEET TIWANA: I do, because I think just like, you know, stereotyping exists all over, so it's on both sides. And I think what ends up happening is people who have similar beliefs to me can sometimes feel like, oh, it's going to be a struggle to get through, but to me it's more so part of that then becomes like shutting someone out and then having, or they have felt like what has come out through the other side has been so dehumanizing to them that they feel that they can't engage in that conversation with somebody who has that opposing viewpoint because they feel like their humanity has been stumbled on. And so what ends up happening then is that that human link gets cut. And so what makes people change their beliefs are really connections with others. And it's how you, if you're able to speak to someone's heart, if you're able to speak to someone's mind, that is what is going to make them see things differently. I don't think just numbers alone are going to make a difference. I don't think news reports alone are going to make a difference. And so it troubles me because I grew up with people who had very different viewpoints than me, but I know some of them were the kindest people to me growing up. And as a first generation immigrant to this country who, you know, didn't always speak the language back in preschool and throughout, you know, there's always this kind of struggle of adaptation and adjustment and creating things that are your own. And not saying, you know, it's not, I'm not going to adapt to that, or I'm not going to adjust to that. But the sense of acceptance and sense of belonging that you get. Some of that came as I was growing up, by, I think, definition of where I grew up from people who believe very differently than I do. And I think my beliefs also became more solidified when I went away to college and when I went and worked in other places. So to me, I've always wanted to hear the other viewpoint because I grew up with it. So it concerns me that people who have the same viewpoints I have, and I can understand where they come from because they have felt so dehumanized. They don't want to connect with the humanity on the other side. But the very thing that they're trying to do will require that. And perhaps they've grown up with something very different. And so I know it exists. I know it's out there. I know that there's goodness in people and people who they feel like they have not seen that goodness in, and that maybe we could come to a place that would be the betterment for all of us. I feel like we're just pushing each other into different corners. That's where we're going. It's gonna become us and them. But at the end of the day, like my mom and my baby say, it's one sky and we're all under this one sky and we're breathing the same air. So we have to figure it out, right?

[46:42] JEFFREY PUENTE: So, I mean, I guess I have a question for you, if you don't mind. How did. It was interesting, because how did. When you left to go to school, how did that solidify your current beliefs?

[46:53] RAVNEET TIWANA: I think I saw other perspectives and I think I. I think the things that I was exposed to in college, so the professors I was exposed to, they gave me language to speak to what I experienced. So when I was living it and when I was seeing it, I didn't always have the language. Like, I didn't know if it was only happening to me. I didn't know why this existed. Even though, you know, I saw people trying so hard. Why was it that I had racist encounters? Where was this coming from? I was like, my parents are working so hard. Why is when we're at the, like, the fabric store, my mom's getting looked over by the person at the register and being told, like, the person behind her can come in front of her? And why is it that when they see this, like, ten year old or twelve year old stand up to them, they want to shut her down? And so I think when I went away to college, the professors and the things I was exposed to, the activities I took part in gave me language and to speak to that and also showed me that it wasn't just my experience, that it was something more system wide. It was systemic, and it was happening to other people as well who looked like me, Orlando, who had similar experiences to me. And so they also showed me the complexity of how things work together, that it's not just one thing, like, what does intersectionality really mean? And so. And how it influences our day to day lived experiences that we have. I think that's what I got when it went away.

[48:36] JEFFREY PUENTE: So me growing up similar, you know, where I grew up in a. Or latino household, where, you know, stereotypes are always around, I guess. How. How does that. Like, how does the stereotypes. I guess I forgot how I was going to ask this. The. Sorry. Hang on.

[49:04] RAVNEET TIWANA: It's okay.

[49:07] JEFFREY PUENTE: I lost my train of thought. Sorry.

[49:12] RAVNEET TIWANA: So you grew up in a latino household.

[49:16] JEFFREY PUENTE: You were saying about. I forgot what you had just said. I'm sorry.

[49:24] RAVNEET TIWANA: So I spoke about how I went away and there was language given to what I experienced, that it wasn't just me, it was, like, systemic.

[49:34] JEFFREY PUENTE: Oh, okay. So, yeah, the stereotypes, I guess so the stereotypes that I get. Do you often find that it doesn't matter what side of the aisle they come from, that there are the same type of people, ignorant, rude, hateful, whatever type of people, no matter what side they tend to agree with? That's kind of. I found out that that's just human. Like, that's just people. It didn't matter if they were Republican or Democrat or whatever the case is, you know, I'm light skinned, but I'm latino, so to white people, I look mexican. To Mexicans, I look like a white boy. So I really don't fit in with any of that group. And I found that on either side, you know, I was getting. I was getting, you know, stereotyped for whatever reason, and it didn't matter. So did you find that at all, that it doesn't really matter what side of the aisle someone comes from if they're just that kind of person? That they're that kind of person?

[50:33] RAVNEET TIWANA: Yeah, I think that's more of a personality thing. And then I think the people you're surrounded by in your corner either support that they feed that, or you're gonna. So it depends on, like, how much of your corner is feeding that. You know, my personal belief is some coroners feed it more than others. At this point in time. I don't think it was always the case, but it's becoming more of that case. So I think it's. You have those kinds of. I think that's a person thing.

[51:11] JEFFREY PUENTE: Right.

[51:11] RAVNEET TIWANA: And if we think about where do stereotypes come from? I think that was a big thing I was exposed to when I went away as well. Is that stereotypes? So it's part of creating a schema, but it's a schema that's gone array. Like, it's gone crazy. And so just as human beings, we're always creating schemas because it's how we protect ourselves and make sense of the world that we live in. And so rather than always having to go back and forth and be like, could that be, or could that not be? We build on our previous experience, but a stereotype is sort of like a schema that's gone crazy, because now you're taking it to the extreme and you're saying it's all or none. When we always know that there's a. It's not an all thing, that there's always variation, there's always variety, and sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't work. Not all people of one culture do the same thing. You know, they do it in different ways. It's even, you know, like, for example, you may, like, if you go to your spouse's house, they're going to celebrate the same thing you celebrate differently. And that's. But you would think, like, oh, growing up, if I celebrated it this way and they celebrate it, there's going to be some similarity, but there'll be a little bit of differences. And. But, so that's part of the schema would be, okay, they're going to. It'll be these general things that we'll do, but the stereotype would be like, they have to do it. And so, yeah, that's. That's what I'm.

[52:44] JEFFREY PUENTE: Yeah, it doesn't really matter where they come from. Yeah, yeah, I feel you there. Okay. Just curious.

[52:51] RAVNEET TIWANA: We've got five minutes left, so I'm gonna have you. Let's see. I'm gonna have you ask this first. Okay. I'll have you ask this last.

[53:05] JEFFREY PUENTE: Okay.

[53:07] RAVNEET TIWANA: Is there anything you learned about me today that surprised you?

[53:12] JEFFREY PUENTE: Yes, I would have. I would have a conversation with you on the streets, no matter what your political background would be, and I would have never have guessed or anything like that, that you were a democrat or anything like that. You seem like a normal human being to me. You seem like. I thought you would have looked more for an argument or for some sort of dig a little deeper. But no, you definitely surprised on that. You just had a normal conversation with me. You have a lot of similarities to me, a lot of differences for sure, but the people important in your life are real similar to people important in my life. And I definitely respect that you consider Kern county home because a lot of people don't like this place. And I. I definitely respect that you have a human conversation with me.

[54:14] RAVNEET TIWANA: Oh, great. Great.

[54:17] JEFFREY PUENTE: What are your hopes for the future?

[54:20] RAVNEET TIWANA: So my hopes for the future, I would just hope that we stop this kind of corner thing. I think it needs to. Like, I mean, politics at the end of the day, I think part of it is that we create social policies that influence people, people's day to day lived experiences. And those are the experiences they carry with them throughout life. And I feel like more and more we're getting into corners, and when we get into corners, it becomes this us them type of thing. And I just feel like where the world is going and how complex things are getting for just the world in general, but also in the United States, I feel like we're at this inflection point, and if we stick in the corners, I don't think it's going to be productive moving forward. I think it's going to be to our detriment.

[55:12] JEFFREY PUENTE: Agreed.

[55:13] RAVNEET TIWANA: And it's just a part of us reconnecting with the humanity in ourselves. So that's my hope. Both sides, that we can get to that place and just be accountable to yourself.

[55:23] JEFFREY PUENTE: We're becoming too tribal, for sure. Awesome.

[55:29] RAVNEET TIWANA: That's it. That's 50 minutes. Great.

[55:32] JEFFREY PUENTE: Well, thank you.

[55:34] RAVNEET TIWANA: Yeah. Nice meeting you.

[55:35] JEFFREY PUENTE: Likewise.

[55:35] RAVNEET TIWANA: Likewise.

[55:36] JEFFREY PUENTE: This was. This was awesome. It was excellent.

[55:38] RAVNEET TIWANA: Yeah.

[55:39] JEFFREY PUENTE: So cool. All right. I.