Jennie Dalgas and Jennifer Mickelson

[00:00] JENNY DALGAS: Jenny Dalgus. I'm 38 years old. Today is Thursday, December 10, 2020 and I am recording from Corvallis, Oregon. I'll be speaking with Jennifer Mickelson, who is my friend and former co worker and the site director at our former Wonders Early Learning Center.

[00:27] JENNIFER MICKELSON: My name is Jennifer Mickelson. I am 28 years old. Today is Thursday, December 10, 2020. I'm recording from Tillamook Oregon and I'll be speaking with Jenny Dalgas who is my friend and former boss who owned Wonders Early Learning Center.

[00:47] JENNY DALGAS: And now you own and now I.

[00:50] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Own Tilly Totts Preschool here in Tillamook It's an exciting adventure. So Jenny, what did a pre Covid day look like for you?

[01:05] JENNY DALGAS: Oh, pre Covid, it's hard to think back that far. It's been an interesting year. Pre Covid I would get up very early and rush around and get my kids breakfast and off to school and then, you know, probably stop at the grocery store and pick up whatever items we needed for that day or that week of snacks or whatever. There was always something and then get to work. And I was always late, always. And rush in and get lots of Good morning, Miss Jenny. Hi, Miss Jenny. Miss Jenny show. Let me show you this. I lost a tooth. Miss Jenny. Miss Jenny. Miss Jenny. Miss Jenny. And I would try to put down all of my bags and my coffee and I'd always lose my coffee and my phone and it's all somewhere. But yeah, the day started early and I was always, you know, keeping my own kiddos in the back of my mind what they're up to that day and who's picking them up from school and what's happening. And most days I would leave work at 5:30 or 6 and get home and try to hear about their day and try to listen and try to help finish off homework and catch up on laundry and then flop into bed and do it all again the next day. So pre Covid days were busy but a lot of fun. No two days were alike. There was always something to do and you know, somebody needed something and somebody had a fun project going and there was always something happening and it was fun, but busy juggling my own family and other parents and other kids and teachers and their families and there was a lot going on. What was it like for you? Ms. Jennifer.

[03:14] JENNIFER MICKELSON: It was amazing. Having my son at work opening up that infant program when I was pregnant was a blessing. Infant care was really hard to find and so getting to have him there was a huge bonus. It was very early Mornings and long days. But, you know, it was. It was amazing working with the families that we had and the children that we had and the teachers. I think we had, you know, this last year. It was every evolving with the teachers. You know, they come and go a lot. But I think this, the last year that we were there, I think we had a really great team and it was. It was a lot of fun. It was busy. I know it was. It can be a lot of parts of childcare is definitely stressful, but the kids make it worth it for sure.

[04:15] JENNY DALGAS: Definitely. It's kind of the best of both worlds as a parent. Getting to be a parent and also working and being a teacher and, you know, there's a lot involved that it is worth it, but it's hard work.

[04:31] JENNIFER MICKELSON: It is, definitely. Yeah. Getting to still do what I love, you know, still provide for my family and know that my son is safe and in a good place. And hearing him down the hall is. Was amazing. I loved it. For you. What was the most challenging issue?

[04:51] JENNY DALGAS: I think the most challenging was just all the financial pieces, like, if I could just hang out with the kiddos and do fun projects and play and paint rainbows, like that was the best. But the hardest part was juggling licensing and taxes and paperwork and immunization records and all these other elements that were part of it. You know, that just isn't. That's not my strength. And so I could do it. I know it's part of it, but I know that there were definitely other people that do that better. Like that's. That's where their comfort level is. So that was the challenging part for me is juggling like, here's what I want to do. I can dream really big. Here's what I want to see happen. But actually executing it, you know, getting through licensing, getting through paperwork, zoning, whatever it may be like, that was definitely more challenging to me than anything. And hearing from families about what they need, but then not having the community support to meet that need was tough. I understand you need a full time spot. I don't have a place to put you. I'm sorry. And I can't manifest one somehow. So that was really challenging for me and for us as a program ultimately. So tell me more about your new program and how this all came to be.

[06:41] JENNIFER MICKELSON: So right after finding out Wonders was closing, I had accepted a job in Tillamook with the school district here. And right after we moved down a couple months later, we found out that that position was no longer available because of COVID They Lost a bunch of funding and, you know, therefore lost positions that they just hired for. And so I started applying for other jobs. I had accepted a position, thought that I had child care in place, and child care fell through. So ultimately I couldn't move forward with that position. And then another position I had wanted was working until 7:00 at night. And then those hours when you are a mom with a young child. It didn't work for me. I didn't want to miss out on my son's entire evening. Like, I hadn't done that since he was born, and I wasn't about to do that now. And so that's kind of how it came into play with opening up Tilly Tots. It was. It's a huge need here. You know, there's only, you know, there's not really any licensed. There's one licensed place in Tillamook itself, and then, you know, there's home cares, but everybody has wait lists. There's. It's a need. It's a big need. There's nowhere that takes infants. And so just having a place for my child to go, opening up an early childhood education program is something that I really wanted to do, and it felt like the right time to do that. And so, you know, the support here has been amazing. You know, it's. It's been challenging. I am doing this by myself right now, but it's also been really fun. It's been a good balance. I've been able to balance life and work, which has been huge. And. Yeah, so that's kind of how Tilly Tots preschool came to be. It was, you know, I needed a job. I still needed to be able to provide for my family. I needed a place for my son to go. And just seeing a need here was, you know, kind of what sparked it to get Tilly Tots going well.

[09:05] JENNY DALGAS: And that's huge because, you know, anybody can just watch a kid and, like, keep them alive for a few hours, but to actually educate them, to have a program where they're, you know, learning and they're happy, not only are they safe and they're getting good, healthy snacks and, you know, love and attention and all that, but they're actually learning. There's a curriculum, like, it's based on national standards for early childhood. They're getting something out of that. Not just babysitting. We are not babysitting.

[09:45] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Yeah, well, that's what the families that I've talked to here love about the program that I'm offering is. We are using the Same curriculum we used at Wonders. You know, the Experience early learning curriculum. You know, just from being at Wonders, I have over seven years of experience, so they love that I'm bringing that experience in that curriculum here. Right now. My program is for children three to five. My goal is to have, you know, to turn it into a center offering care for more ages. Because that is such a huge need here. But because of how crazy this year has been, this is a good start. This is a really good start. I'm able to balance this by myself right now. And I definitely have goals for what the future might look like for Tilly Tots. But for right now, this is a good place to be.

[10:40] JENNY DALGAS: Yeah. Avoid burnout. Just go slow.

[10:44] JENNIFER MICKELSON: That's exactly why I'm offering right now. I have three preschool classes. I just couldn't do the 10 hours a day, five days a week by myself. I didn't want to start this and get burnt out in the first few months of having it here. Like, I wanted to be able to bring my best to the families and the kids and myself and my family. So it's a really good, really good balance right now, which with everything that's happened this year, I think is really important.

[11:15] JENNY DALGAS: Yeah. So tell me more about. You know, obviously we both know what the challenges were pre Covid times, but being in the field now is quite a bit different. So tell me, like, obviously there's challenges, but what are the challenges now and how are you kind of accommodating adapting for these ever changing protocols?

[11:44] JENNIFER MICKELSON: It's definitely. I mean, it was challenging before and it is more challenging now. You know, the protocols were constantly changing all summer long. And I, you know, we opened up in September, but it took us all summer just to get the paperwork done. You know, once you. We are a recorded program. So once we had that sent in, then we had to apply to be an emergency childcare provider just to be able to open during COVID And that is in effect for as long as the state of emergency is in effect, which keeps getting pushed out. That took a long time just to get that processed. It really did take most of the summer just to get that back. And our certificate that said, yes, we can open. There's a lot more. You have to have a mask or a face shield. You have to check temperatures. You have to have, you know, I mean, we did a lot of cleaning before and now it's. It's way more like, you know, between classes before and after, you are bleaching everything, you are wiping everything down. You know, Just doing your best to keep everything. Everything clean and everybody healthy. So there's a lot more supplies that are involved with that. You know, you're going through bleach a lot faster. You're going through wipes a lot faster. You know, it's. There's a lot of paperwork. You have to record, you know, symptoms and, you know, if you did their health check and who dropped off, you know, you just have to keep track of all these pieces in case something did happen, in case somebody was exposed to Covid. So there is definitely. There's more paperwork involved now with all of that, and, you know, just all those safety protocols, staying on top of it, you know, being in communication with your families for things that change, you know, that are out of our control. But it's what we have to follow to stay open. So just a lot of communication.

[13:50] JENNY DALGAS: And you're the best for all of that, staying on top of things.

[13:55] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Thank you.

[14:00] JENNY DALGAS: What do you think Covid has taught you about childcare and this work?

[14:07] JENNIFER MICKELSON: I've always believed that childcare is important, but, oh, my goodness, it's more important now than ever, I think. You know, Covid has closed down centers. You know, it's been the reason for preschools to decide that they just can't move forward, you know, and, yes, there have been grants. There's been a lot of grants that centers are able to apply for and receive. But, you know, even that only keeps them afloat for so long.

[14:39] JENNY DALGAS: And it takes so.

[14:41] JENNIFER MICKELSON: And it takes time. It takes a lot of time to even get the money once you've, you know, sent in the application. And so, you know, I think, you know, it's. Child care is so important. It's needed for families to be able to go back to work to support their families. You know, it's just. It's really important, and it's a huge need, and it's really hard for centers to be able to meet that need given the current circumstances.

[15:13] JENNY DALGAS: Yeah, definitely. I think that's the hardest part, is like, you know, everybody wants to go back to work. Everybody needs to, you know, find this new normal. And yet, you know, with even fewer programs available, and even the programs that were available before had wait lists. So now what, you know, I mean, it's a huge need. And I. You know, when that decision came about way back in March, that was the hardest part about it, was knowing that for so long we were trying to be part of the solution, and we were pushing to be part of the solution, and all of a sudden, we were really Part of the problem. Like, we really. There was nothing else we could have done at that point to change the outcome. Like, it is what it is, and that was horrible. There's nothing that we could do about it. And yet out of that, you know, some really great things have come of it. Families have figured out new solutions, new programs were able to come out of dying programs, you know, for better or worse. That's. That's what was happening. And I haven't heard of a whole lot happening here in this town. You know, it's the same issues that we had before. So being able to, like, you know, start something fresh in a new place, taking the knowledge and, you know, skills that you already had and to use that in a new way is so cool. I'm so excited for you and just.

[17:05] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Thank you.

[17:06] JENNY DALGAS: Yeah, I mean, it's a bummer here, but at the same time, you know, I think both of our families needed something different. And, you know, because of all of this, I. This is the first time in 12 years in my children's childhood then I. That I have been able to show up for them and listen to them and teach them for who they are and not in the midst of what everybody else is doing and what everybody else needs, and what time do I have to be where and dragging them along. You know, this is the first time that's ever happened. And when they were tiny and they were with me all the time, that was fine. But as they went off to school and kind of had their own plans, I was always trying to navigate their plans and my plans and how are we going to get everybody where they need to go. And, you know, this is the best thing for our family right now. It stinks for everybody else that, you know, things didn't work out the way they wanted. And this certainly isn't what we thought we wanted, but, you know, we're making the best of it. And I'm grateful. I'm grateful to be with them as we approach teenage years and be able to really listen to what they're saying and, yeah, just show up. It's different.

[18:37] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Yeah. Yeah, it. It's just really interesting how everything played out. Like, you know, I don't think that I would have been moving back to Tillamook if I knew that that job was not going to be available. By the time we'd already moved down here, the Corvallis house had sold. It was too late to go back. And so moving forward and doing what's best for our family and being available for my own child And I think that's. It's still been really good. It's been really scary starting this up, and that's why I was so hesitant and tried to find other jobs first.

[19:19] JENNY DALGAS: And everybody around you was like, let's open a center. You can do it.

[19:24] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Yeah. Everybody was telling me, like, you should open a preschool. You know, you have the experience. It's a need. Another preschool in town had just closed after several years in business, and my son was actually on the waitlist for there. So, you know, it was just all these things kind of happening at once. And, you know, it was a scary time to open a new place because you do have families that are worried to send their child anywhere because of COVID or, you know, they lost their jobs and don't have the money to pay for school right now. So it was kind of scary not knowing what enrollment would look like. You just. I just had to take that leap of faith and kind of trust everybody around me saying that you need to do this. And luckily, like, it's been a blessing, and it's been. It's worked out really well, you know, better than I thought it would for its first year. But Covid definitely has taken a toll on so many things this year and so many programs.

[20:28] JENNY DALGAS: Yeah. Yeah. When we look nationwide at, like, over half of the programs in existence are no longer in existence, it's like, okay, that's a big problem. What happened there? But I think the issue was just that we didn't put enough emphasis on early childhood education programs before now, and that makes a big difference. Like, this was a problem a long time in coming when we don't value our early childhood teachers. As teachers, we don't value our early childhood families. And those little children that they don't just need to be somewhere so their parents can go adult. Like, they need to be somewhere where they're loved and they're being educated. They're being cared for and taught. They're being taught manners. They're being taught, you know, basic curriculum. Yeah, whatever. We need to teach them how to be kind and how to, you know, pick up the messes they make and right the wrongs. Like, if they throw something, they don't need to just, you know, take a time out. They need to go fix the problem. And we need to look at why they threw it. Are they tired? Are they hungry? Are they, you know, needing attention or whatever. And so all of these little tiny pieces that we haven't figured out until all of a sudden, it becomes very, very obvious that these teachers These people that we trust with our young children are way more than, you know, just looking out for the kids, keeping them alive. You know, this is a way bigger job, and we should treat these professionals as such, you know, helping with funding these programs, getting them the resources, getting them the PPE they need and the cleaning supplies and whatever like this. They really shouldn't be out of pocket. You know, there should be programs in place, and we're getting there. But it's taken this type of an issue to make it so obvious where the pitfalls are. Like, you know, yeah, parents want to go back to work. They can't because there's nowhere for their kids to be. Yeah, and it's an even bigger problem now because we have half of the options available, and the options that are available have very limited space because they have to have small cohorts and, you know, all of this that didn't exist before. Bigger issues. Yeah. Do you have any, like, thoughts on. I mean, I've kind of pulled out of that scene, and I'm looking at, like, kind of the older age bracket, and, you know, we have a little pod here with our kiddos and one other and her parents work. And so we've kind of adopted two families together so that we can all kind of take care of each other and take care of the kids and keep up with their schooling and all of that. But, you know, in early childhood, what is your sense moving forward? Like, what do programs need to be successful? What kind of support? I mean.

[24:14] JENNIFER MICKELSON: What do you think? They definitely, definitely need more funding, more, you know, more help. Like you said, early childhood professionals. They aren't really treated like professionals so much of the time. And I get told so many times, I don't know how you do it. I don't know how you could do this all day. It is hard. And there are people that understand that, and there are people that value early childhood professionals, But I think we need more of that. We need a bigger understanding of just how important early childhood is. We are teaching them so many life skills that are going to benefit them when they get into kindergarten. And all those years, you know, later, they definitely need more support. I know the biggest issue in Corvallis was zoning for us, you know, and it may be the perfect building, but it's not zoned appropriately. And I think that's something that really needs to be looked at as well, you know, because early childhood professionals are very creative, and we can make a lot of different spaces work. Yeah, we can make a lot of spaces work. And I think we need more support just in that area in general of, you know, we can make that space work, but we're being told no or you have to pay thousands of dollars to let that space work.

[25:40] JENNY DALGAS: Yeah.

[25:41] JENNIFER MICKELSON: So I think there definitely needs to be some more support about zoning and have that looked at because, I mean, that was the big issue in Corvallis. Like you said, we turned families away because we didn't have space for them. And then you try expanding and we can't because of zoning and how early childhood centers fall for that or fall into that zoning. So I think that's something that we definitely, definitely need to, you know, have help with.

[26:13] JENNY DALGAS: Tell us about the building you're in. That's an interesting connection, I think.

[26:20] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Yeah. So because I'm a recorded program, there are rules with that. As you know, I can't have children in care more than four hours a day. And it is strictly like a preschool class versus, you know, your child care for 10 hours a day. It is really families that are wanting their child to have social interaction and they want them to learn. They want them to have a preschool experience before kindergarten. There is no the Early Learning center here in Oregon. They don't care what the zoning is for recorded programs. Now, if you are a center, that's a different story. And as we saw in Corvallis, so I was able to find a place that we couldn't have had wonders at because of the zoning. But it worked. It worked. Yes. I was actually told that they had had a Head Start classroom there. So when I walked in and having this experience for so many years, when I walked in, I'm like, this is the perfect place. He had shown me several different buildings around the port. And when I saw this one, it was definitely one that I could just picture. Hey, this will be our math room. This will be literacy, like circle time. You just kind of start putting it all together in your head. And he had talked to their board and they were so excited that we were going to be there and offer this program. And I didn't really do a lot of advertising for my program. It really spread by word of mouth, which tells you just how much of a need just even early childhood preschool program is. It doesn't Even cover the 10 hours a day that we need here for childcare. But just to have a preschool program for children, it really shows the importance of that and the huge need for that.

[28:19] JENNY DALGAS: I can take that four hours and I can get a whole lot done by myself in four hours time.

[28:27] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Definitely, definitely. And Right now I have two classes, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And so because of all the cleaning and all the rules that we have to follow, right now I'm doing a three hour class in the morning and a three hour class in the afternoon and have an hour between the classes to clean and like deep clean everything and get everything set up for the next round. But yeah, you know, parents appreciate that three or four hours because it is helping them go do something that they need to do or, you know. Yeah, so it's been, it's been helpful, I think, for families. But yeah, it's definitely, it's interesting that the types of program that you're doing, you know, it differs. I was going to originally do like an in home thing and then I really wanted to get out of the house. I really wanted to be able to get up and go to work, you know, and I had contacted so many places that just weren't a good fit once looking at them or, you know, it was because you had to be nonprofit. And that takes, as, you know, a lot of time to make happen. And I didn't have that much time.

[29:38] JENNY DALGAS: And money.

[29:40] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Yeah, and money. And, you know, just starting out, I didn't have six months to wait or that money to put into that right now and all that paperwork. So I was so thankful for, you know, where I'm at now. And it, you know, because overhead is a huge, huge cost for childcare places. And so, you know, it is an affordable rent that I feel like, okay, I can afford this. You know, I'm not to the point yet where I can have on staff. And I want to, when I do hire staff, I want to be able to pay them a livable wage.

[30:16] JENNY DALGAS: Um.

[30:19] JENNIFER MICKELSON: You know, and that's a whole other overhead expense that I just, I'm not there yet.

[30:24] JENNY DALGAS: Yeah. And then there's workman comp and all these other things that go along with having staff. Yeah, I think, I mean, what you're doing is awesome. Just pacing yourself with what's manageable to you and your family. But, you know, making it work in that way is awesome. Like, you'll get to staff eventually, but I wouldn't rush. It's hard to find just the right people that you click with that work really well together. And that's hard work. And you know, from the beginning you have to say like, you know, this is, this is how it is. There's going to be no drama. We all work together and that's hard to find. So, you know, take your time finding the right people and then Taking that one step at a time, because all of a sudden, you really want to take care of these people that are your staff, that have trusted you for their job, and you end up giving to meet their needs and forgetting about your own and your own family. They're like, oh, that doesn't matter. It's fine. Everybody has what they need. It's like, wait a minute. But you don't have what you need. So, yeah, balance it is.

[31:47] JENNIFER MICKELSON: It's a really fine balance and, like, a really fine line of keeping that balance of, you know, work and life, your own life, your own family, their needs, you know, so I'm. Like I said, that's why I looked in. I didn't even know recorded programs existed until I had reached out. No, I hadn't either. And so I'm like, this would have been useful to know in Corvallis because of the different rules and stuff, but it is the perfect program right now for me because I am able to keep that balance of work and life. I'm just kind of doing my own thing. We're implementing that awesome curriculum. I'm bringing in all of my experience into this new place. And it's exciting. It does have its stressful moments, because, you know, some days you just feel like it's a lot for just one person. But it's also, once you start adding more people into that, it does get harder. It does. And it gets harder to keep that balance. So right now, because of the year that we've had, and it's just been a big roller coaster, you know, we're just taking day by day, and I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing and, you know, kind of see what next year brings. But, yeah, it's definitely. It's a lot of work. Definitely a lot of work.

[33:13] JENNY DALGAS: Yes, it is. I'm proud of you, though. You. You know what you're doing, and, you know those families are in good hands, and it's an asset to your community. And I wish you were here, but I'm glad you're there.

[33:31] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Yeah, I. Yeah, I'm definitely. I've learned a lot from you and @Wonders, and I'm really thankful for that because I've been able to bring so many of those things into my own program.

[33:44] JENNY DALGAS: Yeah, I mean, I can't. It's hard for me to go back to the day we decided to close because it was just such a hard decision, but at the same time, I knew it was the right thing to do. Just, you know, the position we were in. I knew that we couldn't provide for all of our teachers with no income. There was going to be no income for who knows how long until, you know, some of the close or some of the mandates from the state were lifted. And I just couldn't figure out a way to, you know, kind of what we were saying before, how to take care of yourself and your own family and everybody else at the same time, it just wasn't going to be possible to continue to provide for everybody. It definitely took a toll on our family, like on me personally, to have that stress level. And I just. I just. It was the best option to let everybody go and let everybody figure out their own path and find their own way, find their own joy again, find their own happiness instead of, you know, trying to meet everybody else's needs, like everybody, you know, go figure out what it is that makes you happy, what it is that makes ends meet for you. Because it's not going to be here, unfortunately. I wish it was. I wish I could hold it all together for everybody, but it's just. It just wasn't going to be possible. So, yeah, it was a tough call. I know a lot of teachers and a lot of parents still haven't spoken to me, and that's okay. Everybody takes things differently and I can't shoulder everybody else's feelings about it. It just is. It is what it is. And it was time to move forward in a different direction. So that was the end of wonders. But a lot of good things have come out of that anyway. Things that we didn't expect or couldn't foresee or couldn't even fathom. Really amazing things. So I'm so glad that you were able to take that experience and move forward and have your own program with your own set of rules and your own structure and structuring it in a way that make sense for you and for your family in a manageable timeframe and all of that. It's so cool. I'm so excited for you. It makes so much sense.

[36:47] JENNIFER MICKELSON: It did. It took me a while to, you know, to jump on this train, I guess that everybody was telling me to, you know, go on and to open up my own program. But it definitely took that leap of faith and that decision of, I do want to still be a mom mom that, you know, set up a ten.

[37:08] JENNY DALGAS: And a half hour day agenda. No.

[37:12] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Yeah. Like, for me it was, you know, I had had him at wonder since he was 11 weeks old. He was always with me, and so it was really hard for me to Even think about dropping him off somewhere else for the day and hoping that it went well. You know, that's really hard for me. So, you know, because he is. He's three, he's still really young, and it was important for me to offer a program that he could attend and get that social interaction and get that education and offer that to other children in the community. And it has definitely been a blessing this year just to have my own program and taking that leap of faith. It's working out and it is doing better than I thought it would. So, yeah, I mean, a good thing to hear.

[38:05] JENNY DALGAS: Yeah. It's so hard for kids right now to get that socialization. And the academic part, again, is important, but really for early childhood, it's learning how to work together and be kind and share space and take turns and for not only him, but also those other kids that you're able to involve for all of them in these crazy Covid times, for them to have some sort of sanctuary where it is predictable and it is consistent and it's fun and they get. They have friends and, you know, that's huge. Children before the age of five, I mean, five and under is when we're developing all of their basic moral code, their right and wrong, their personality, all of that is developed by the age of five. So for you to be able to take this really important time for those families, including your own, and, you know, instill good things into them is so crazy important. You know, I wish there were more programs just like yours all over the country that were able to do that on, you know, even if it's a small scale and you're able to meet the needs of 10 children, those are 10 children that are going to grow up and make better choices and be ready for school and be ready for lots of things that they probably won't even remember where they learned that, but they did learn it, and that's important as they grow up. So it's huge that you're doing that, and I wish you all the best. And yeah, I'll keep sending some books your way. I have some, by the way. I need to get those in the mail.

[39:57] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Thank you. I appreciate those. Yeah, I think it's been. One of my biggest goals this year was to create a sense of normalcy for all of these kids because they had been through so much. You know, it's really important to allow them that sense of normalcy to just come and play, to come and have fun, to do art, you know, to have fun with science. You know, we are learning so much, but also instilling those really important life skills, you know, at such a young age is so important. And it's been fun.

[40:29] JENNY DALGAS: Yeah. Even if you have to wear a mask, you can still have fun.

[40:33] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Yeah. Yes.

[40:37] JENNY DALGAS: Well, that's awesome. Goodness. It's so good to see you and chat with you and you hear about all of this. Yeah.

[40:49] JENNIFER MICKELSON: It's been an adventure.

[40:52] JENNY DALGAS: We like adventures, right?

[40:54] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Yeah. Yeah, it's an adventure. Especially working with young ones.

[41:02] JENNY DALGAS: Yep. Every day is an adventure.

[41:06] JENNIFER MICKELSON: Yes.

[41:09] JENNY DALGAS: Well, best of luck to.