Jennie March and Patrick March

[00:04] PATRICK MARCH: My name is Patrick March. I'm 28 years old, and today's Wednesday, May 18, 2022. We're in the Ozarks, Missouri. I'm here today with my mom, Jennie and she's my interview partner.

[00:21] JENNIE MARCH: Hi, my name is Jennie March. I am 51 and a half. Today is Wednesday, May 18, 2022. We're in Ozarks, Missouri, and I'm here with my son Patrick. So, Patrick, I'd like to ask you, at what age. At what age did you realize that you were trans or that you were more comfortable with an alternative lifestyle?

[00:54] PATRICK MARCH: Well, I think those are two very different questions. Finding out when you were trans or coming to that understanding of yourself versus, you know, if you're more comfortable with an alternative lifestyle. In terms of understanding who I am as a person, really, I don't think that I had words for it growing up. I had feelings that I was maybe not so different from my brothers, my two brothers, as I imagined. Being the middle of two other brothers kind of gives you a strive to want to be just like them, in any case. But for me, it was a little something more. But it wasn't until I would say, probably my middle 20s, 24, 25, I started to communicate more with people who were transgender, who were gender neutral or gender fluid or no gender at all, and realizing that I had more in common with them than with people who identified as the gender that they were born as. It wasn't even until I was 26 that I really started to question, could I be transgender? Is that even something that's possible for me? So I guess a long journey that ended.

[02:14] JENNIE MARCH: Wow. Wow. Now, during this journey, while you were growing up, was it difficult for you to relate to other kids your age or females or males?

[02:33] PATRICK MARCH: Definitely. I always. I grew up feeling like I was more interested in being outside, being active, doing what the guys were doing like my brothers were. But even on the playgrounds, I found myself gravitating more towards, you know, trying to be one of the guys, being in on the action, and sometimes getting in over my head because, truthfully, I couldn't quite keep up with them. But I also struggled to find a place among, you know, the. The groups of other girls. I didn't think like them. I could put on a pretty good pretense of trying to fit in. But at the end of the day, that only goes so far. I wouldn't be able to form real bonds within the female groups, like, say, I didn't become a cheerleader, although I had some interest or I struggled too make friends in Girl Scouts, because fundamentally, I didn't want to be there. I wanted to be out doing things that other guys were doing. I just didn't have the words to say it that way.

[03:47] JENNIE MARCH: Wow. So if you could describe trans, you know what exactly it means for other people to understand.

[04:08] PATRICK MARCH: It's difficult to say in a few words, such a broad topic that encompasses so much for so many people. Our flag is blue, pink, and white for a reason. We have people like me who are more transmasc. We have people who are more trans femme, and we have everything in between and everything that's not in between, and that's what our middle line is for. But I would say if you could sum it up into just a single phrase, then I would say it's being yourself with a purpose, because everybody goes through life trying to be themselves. But when you go through a transition, or even if you just investigate or question into your gender or your sexuality or what it fundamentally means to be who you are in your place in society, you can take whatever conclusions come from that, whether you be transgender or you're not transgender, and that allows you to live your life with further purpose moving forward. You can make decisions based on what's authentic to you without having to worry as much about if it'll be the right path, because you've already investigated the alternate paths and you know which one is right. And that's exactly what being trans feels like for me. It's. I know what the path is now when I didn't know what it was before, and I can move with purpose now when, before, I felt lost.

[05:44] JENNIE MARCH: Wow. That was very well said. No, I just remember just recently, there was a post on Facebook and you said. You described it as, it's like coming home, but inside of you.

[05:58] PATRICK MARCH: Oh, it's very much like that.

[06:01] JENNIE MARCH: And I thought that was a great, great description that you just gave.

[06:07] PATRICK MARCH: And coming home, coming home, being authentic with a purpose, they're all different words for the same feeling of oneness with yourself and who you are. And I don't think that I could have found this. This feeling of oneness and completeness within myself if I had never begun this journey. Truthfully, the greatest thing I've ever done in my life was beginning to take testosterone a little over a year ago. It was kind of like a hard reset, a hard rewiring of my brain and the way it functions. But when the shuffle stopped and everything settled out, it was like, you know, a calm after a storm. You look out over the water and the light's peeking through the clouds, and you feel that sense of peace and wonder for a moment. And that's exactly what I feel like some days when I wake up and I look at myself and I see myself in the mirror.

[07:09] JENNIE MARCH: So you take testosterone once a week, right? By injection?

[07:13] PATRICK MARCH: Yes, I do. It's a very small needle. If you're afraid of needles out there, it's not a thing you have to worry about. I take it in my tummy. But you do have the option to take it in your leg. I personally just like to be able to see what I'm doing better, but I haven't seen that any option is better or worse for other trans men out there. At first, I struggled a little bit. I never hated needles, but I'm not, like, a super avid fan. But after a couple of weeks and help from one of my other adopted moms out there, who's a nurse, she gave me a pep talk and basically said, suck it up, let's go.

[07:56] JENNIE MARCH: You suck it up, buttercup.

[07:58] PATRICK MARCH: Since then, it's been a lot easier. I didn't think I'd ever get used to doing an injection, but now it's just like, oh, it's Friday. Time to do my shot.

[08:09] JENNIE MARCH: So when you started on testosterone, have they increased the level or is it just the same dosage throughout the whole last year?

[08:22] PATRICK MARCH: It's different for every single person. I'm very, very fortunate in that my body takes the testosterone like sponge, and I have stayed at a very rather low dose the entire time since I began. But that might not always be the same. There are chances that your body starts to absorb it less efficiently over time, and I may have to up my dose in the future. But right now it's very low. Just enough to help me feel like who I am and help with my transition. But of course, everything's done with my doctor and blood tests, and we monitor the levels every three months. So if ever anything does change, I'll be able to make a change in what I take.

[09:14] JENNIE MARCH: That's awesome. That's awesome. Now, where did you go to start on testosterone?

[09:23] PATRICK MARCH: So around here, there's a place called aids Project of the Ozarks apo. It's an organization that's been in Springfield for a very, very, very long time. Multiple places over the years, but when I first found them, they were downtown. Now I visit their location over off Glenstone. They provide all sorts of services there. Not just hormones and help with transitioning like me, but also free STD testing, all sorts of resources. Anything you can think of, they can probably help in some way if it's health related, especially for those of us who are more at risk. I've even seen posters inside their waiting room that help with finding hot weather or cold weather shelters. It was going there was honestly the only choice once you get to know the people there, because they actually care. Unlike some offices in bigger cities or other places you hear stories about. I knew going to APO that they would make sure that I was on the best possible path.

[10:36] JENNIE MARCH: And they are wonderful people. I remember when they were just off the square on Friday and Saturday nights and we used to go in and get free snacks and condoms. And the people that worked there were. They just. They were wonderful. And yes, they do free STD tests. They also free HIV tests. So I'm glad that you are going through this with them. I mean, not necessarily the same people that I used to see, but they're very supportive. And I think that is the key with you, is support having people be supportive of you. Patrick I agree.

[11:17] PATRICK MARCH: And for every single trans person out there, I would say support is the biggest possible factor. Too many of us, you know, we already go through life and we are told by society that we are different from the norm. You know, whatever the norm is, we are different from that. And it can be difficult when you have family that doesn't support you, or you have friends that don't support you, or you are isolated. It can be difficult to take the steps to become who you feel like you are without someone to have your back, without someone to say, yeah, what you're doing is good. And honestly, so many of the other people in the country who are transitioning, like me, or who don't fit into the gender binary suffer due to a lack of resources, a lack of understanding. And, you know, I personally have friends who we've lost to suicide in those circumstances. So I feel like it's so important to share and to make sure that people around me understand that supporting one another and spreading that awareness is the most important thing we can do. Because I don't feel like we can afford to lose another person out there like me. I mean, we can't afford to lose anyone, really. But in a time when so much is changing in the world and there is so much conflict, we need the people who are truly different from us to build a better understanding of the world around us. And if we continue to lose them, we continue to reject what's different through, you know, senseless violence or through even shunning your friend. Down the street. Eventually there'll come a time when there won't be anything different left.

[13:20] JENNIE MARCH: Well, when you were growing up. Let me back that up. When I was growing up, nobody really talked about different things where somebody was not normal. I mean, in high school there was one gay boy and he was treated really horribly and he had to use the. They let him use the teachers bathrooms because if he went into bathroom, you know, he'd get beat up a little bit and shoved around and bullied really horribly. But other than that, when your father and I were together and we were raising you guys, there was still, was no. There was no information out there or information that people shared with us on what it means to be trans or what it means to be bisexual. You know, there was no knowledge out there for us to learn. And I'm wondering now if I knew then what I know now. I think it would have been very different for both of us.

[14:30] PATRICK MARCH: There's no doubt about that. Especially knowing how to support a child who is in any way experience experiencing some sort of gender questioning or who has a desire to transition or doesn't seem to be quite in the right place for themselves. It can be difficult to know what to do or say with a child like that if you have no basis, no understanding, no education. I am glad to see more and more these days we have people who are speaking out, who are trying different ways of raising their children. I know for a fact my aunt has changed her style of parenting over time to be more open and understanding of her daughter's desires to express herself and her gender. And that's something that you see a trending towards. But I don't think that we're quite there yet in terms of educating our parents especially. We have so little support for parents who do have children that want to explore that gender identity, you know, either at school or either at home. It's difficult to find the right balance in today's society to support your child's desire to grow.

[16:00] JENNIE MARCH: Absolutely, absolutely. And I'm so very thankful that you let me ask questions and you've helped me understand. And I remember the day when we were in your car, you had picked me up from work and you said, mom, I'm trans. And I said, okay, can I still call you fucktard mom? And you said, yes. And that was it.

[16:30] PATRICK MARCH: I'm pretty sure I said, oh my God, mom. Maybe not that, but the sentiment is you got the spirit. That's what's important.

[16:43] JENNIE MARCH: Well, and I also told you it didn't matter to Me, if you wore a skirt or pants. I just wanted you to be happy with yourself, be happy and love yourself and to have healthy relationships. And, you know, I think you're definitely moving in the right direction. I do have to say that in the last year that you have been on testosterone, I've noticed a huge change in you. You're more self assured, you're confident in everything that you do. You smile real smiles, not little posing smile for a camera. You smile real smiles, and you just seem so much more comfortable with yourself.

[17:33] PATRICK MARCH: That's a good way to put it. The journey of the past era, in terms of the changes in the growth, a lot of what other people see is the physical side of it. You know, I have a mustache now. My voice is a lot lower, I can lift a lot more, my jawline, whatever. Those kinds of things are easy to see. But the internal stuff, that has been the biggest change. And it's almost impossible to show to anybody aside from just normal talking. I can't open up and say, look at the way my brain has rewired. All of the pathways are different now. But if I could, I would, because I truthfully am a scientist at heart, and if there was a way to do that, you could jot me down to be a guinea pig. However, it's crazy to think about how I used to feel inside versus now. I used to never have a quiet moment. I was always thinking about, how am I sitting? Is it feminine enough? How is my smiles feminine enough? Am I passing as a girl? Do I look pretty? You know, things that I didn't realize were crazy thoughts that I shouldn't have to have all the time. You know, I shouldn't have to think to myself, oh, is my face going to look right? Because that's not something that you do all the time if you're comfortable in your body. But as I've developed over the past year, those thoughts and feelings, they disappear. I buy clothes that I like and then I put them on. And I don't change into five different outfits before I leave the house because my body feels wrong in all of them. I don't.

[19:19] JENNIE MARCH: I can't say the same.

[19:22] PATRICK MARCH: And I. I don't stress if my hair is going to look wrong or if other girls are going to look at me and be able to tell something's wrong with me. These are the kinds of things that plagued me before I began testosterone. But now I look at myself in the mirror and I go through my day and I feel like, Patrick, when I once did not And I don't wonder if I look correct. I just live. I don't wonder if I'm gonna offend somebody by a hair being out of place or by sitting in the wrong position for a lady. I just go, I just do. I just be whatever I want. And that's the most freeing thing I've ever experienced.

[20:07] JENNIE MARCH: Wow, that's a very good description and I appreciate that. So prior to you taking testosterone, your anxiety level must have been out the roof if you were so worried about the way you looked and what you were wearing and trying to please other people.

[20:31] PATRICK MARCH: I think of it kind of like being a spy. You're wearing this outer skin of someone else, like this facade, right? And all of your energy is taken up by trying to maintain that facade, even if you don't know why you're doing it, you know? So I was always so, so tense, wondering, you know, I felt different and I felt wrong and I couldn't have the words for it. So I just assumed that if other people found out I was different, I would be shunned or disrespected or hurt or something, you know, some sort of anxiety driven fuel for the fear there. But honestly, since I have begun to be comfortable in myself after starting testosterone and being on it for a while now, I would say I have maybe a tenth of the anxiety I once did. I don't struggle with it all day, every day like I used to. I feel free to make moves and choices and take chances and grow.

[21:40] JENNIE MARCH: That's awesome. That's awesome. I know that there are so many people who are transitioning that do not have the support of their families. It makes me sad. You've actually introduced me to a couple people that do not have that support system and it's really, really important. Do you mind?

[22:06] PATRICK MARCH: Well, you know, you're the parent figure in this situation and you have a trans son. So what would you say to those other trans kids that don't have a parent in their life? What sort of encouragement would you give to them?

[22:26] JENNIE MARCH: Cool. Good question. I would tell them, believe in yourself. Believe in yourself. You be you and everything eventually will fall into place. Just be you. And whatever version of you that is, be you.

[22:45] PATRICK MARCH: That's really good advice. I would say to those same kids out there that regardless of if your family or the people around you accept you, there is a huge community of us other trans, non, binary, gender fluid agender people out there and we will if they won't. Even if you don't have your immediate family around you, you have an enormous one everywhere you turn. Just because you don't see us there doesn't mean we aren't. And I would say, no matter what, you always have a community all the way across the entire United States, across the world. If the people around you don't give you the support that you need, that's okay. Seek out the rest of us, and we'll be right there for you.

[23:37] JENNIE MARCH: And I'll be there, too. Be the mom.

[23:40] PATRICK MARCH: That's it. You heard it here. My mom will adopt all of the trans kids in the entire world. You're all my siblings now. Congratulations.

[23:48] JENNIE MARCH: I might have to make the garden bigger.

[23:53] PATRICK MARCH: I don't know if we'll have enough vegetables.

[23:56] JENNIE MARCH: Great.

[23:59] PATRICK MARCH: I've always wondered what it was like for you, having your. What you thought was your only daughter come out as transgender, you know, and come to you and say, hey, actually, you've been wrong this whole time, and I'm a man.

[24:20] JENNIE MARCH: When you told me in the car it was okay, because you had been talking about it previously where you said, I think I might be. And I was like, okay, I can't.

[24:34] PATRICK MARCH: Commit too harshly there. I'm not sure you know, but, you.

[24:38] JENNIE MARCH: Know, of course, I've known you your whole life, and I have seen some of your struggles. And as a parent, I just want my children to be happy, well adjusted. Happy relationships love themselves. And you didn't. And you didn't have healthy relationships.

[24:58] PATRICK MARCH: That's true.

[24:59] JENNIE MARCH: And you did not love yourself. And so for me, with you identifying that you're trans, it was a huge step because you were doing the work. You were putting in the time and the work into digging deep into yourself and figuring that out. So I was happy. Honestly, I was happy. Sounds crazy, but I was happy. And I'm happy today. Every time I look at you and I see your face, fur, it makes me happy.

[25:31] PATRICK MARCH: Heats fur. Honestly. We were in the car on the way to our interview today, and it's hot. My car is noisy. My mom reaches over and tries to tug on my beard hair. So I'm like, please. Now I'm driving the car. But now I understand exactly how my brothers felt when theirs was coming in, because I used to watch her go over and yank on him. And I would laugh, too. Well, turns out karma will come back to bite you. It doesn't matter if it's 10 years.

[26:02] JENNIE MARCH: Later, especially Steven, because he's not a hairy person. And at first, when he first started growing in the little beard hair, I've.

[26:11] PATRICK MARCH: Been very blessed to have a family of People who support me, both my brothers, both Kevin and Stephen, as well as my mom and all of my grandparents, have been incredibly supportive of my journey. I haven't had to endure nearly as much hardship as some of my friends out there have, and that makes me incredibly grateful every single day. But it also makes me feel almost a sense of duty or something like that towards the other people who. Who don't have as much support as I do to say, hey, what you have going on is fine. You can be whoever you want to be, and there will be people who will support you. It sometimes almost makes me strive to work harder because I have opportunities that other trans people don't have. I can be a retail store manager, and I can be out to my coworkers and my friends, and I can live my life openly, and I don't have to wonder if someone's going to come for me in the night. So it almost feels like because I'm privileged in the support that I have, I have to strive for greater understanding, greater education, and greater support for those who don't.

[27:38] JENNIE MARCH: And you would definitely make a good role model. And you are very. I do. And you're very supportive of your trans friends, and I think that's really good because you're in a position where, for people that are just coming out as trans, nervous about taking testosterone, you can use that knowledge and your empathy to help encourage other people.

[28:09] PATRICK MARCH: And the more that each of us shared about our journeys through transitioning, both the good and the bad, the more normalized it'll become and the easier it'll be for the future people to gain the support that they need.

[28:26] JENNIE MARCH: Very true, Very true.

[28:28] PATRICK MARCH: Now, given the current climate in the United States, there have been a lot of different attacks and just violence towards trans people across the country. Do you ever worry, as my mom, that something will happen to me because of being who I am?

[28:54] JENNIE MARCH: You know, sometimes. Sometimes. Because in downtown, you know, there's parking garages and there are places where somebody could target you. I don't think it'll happen, but the mom and me always worries a little bit, like, you know, like, you have this big target over your head. So, yeah, I do worry, but as your mom, I worry about everything. I worry that you'll trip over your toes or something or, you know, that's.

[29:29] PATRICK MARCH: Not a big stretch there. I do trip quite, quite often on the way to rewiring your muscles. Makes you a little clumsy. Turns out.

[29:38] JENNIE MARCH: I think one advantage is that we live in a town with our. It's very diversified and There are quite a few colleges, so we have quite a few of the younger generation, you know, throughout the school year. And I think that that has been really good and has helped this area become more tolerant. And I don't want to, I don't want to say that in a bad.

[30:08] PATRICK MARCH: Way, but I've definitely noticed a shifting in the general climate of Springfield over the last decade or so. It seems like people in the Ozarks are wanting to grow and, and change and become more understanding. There's a feeling in the air that this area is growing and revitalizing in some ways. You see a lot of development, but you also see an influx of more liberal minded individuals. So I would say this area is kind of in a transitional period for that, but still a little sometimes. I would say that I have noticed myself a little bit of a climate here, almost like a pushback. But I wouldn't say I necessarily worry about my safety ever. As a trans person in the Ozarks, it's. Although there are people everywhere that would reject who I am or who would have a problem with that or who would wish harm on me, I can't say that I believe in living my life according to the fear of what someone else might do. So I'm glad that although you have worries that you still allow me to make, you know, my stands and to, to have my life and to not over worry about those things. Because I don't think being trans is over something you should be afraid of. Honestly.

[31:46] JENNIE MARCH: No, no. And as a mom again, I can find something to worry about all the time, which is very, very true. But I'm very, very thankful that you felt comfortable enough with me to tell me straight up, mom, I'm trans. That took, in my opinion, that took a lot of courage from you, a lot of courage. And at that point it could have gone either way. So thank you for trusting me.

[32:25] PATRICK MARCH: Well, you're welcome. But knowing you, I don't think it could have gone either way. Just saying. But I would say that it was a nerve wracking thing to do. Coming out to the people close to you. There's always that chance for rejection. However, the support that I've received since then made any fear at that time worth it. I was lucky to be able to come out. Not everybody can. And I was lucky at the reaction I received henceforth. But I would say just being able to speak up about myself, like you said, that first step, coming out and saying, this is who I am, it's a big step in my growth and I was happy for it.

[33:10] JENNIE MARCH: Big step in the right direction, in my opinion. Just because of the changes in you. And you're happy. You're happy, and that is huge. You're happy.

[33:22] PATRICK MARCH: Would you say that having someone who was trans in your family changed your perspective of what transgender people were like and what their journeys were like?

[33:38] JENNIE MARCH: Yes. Yes. I had a pretty good understanding from a heterosexual point of view, and it wasn't completely accurate. But during the last two years and during the last year especially, I have been able to meet other trans people through you and see that they're just normal people. They're normal people. They aren't. They don't act weird. You know, they're It.

[34:12] PATRICK MARCH: I act weird, but that's for everybody.

[34:17] JENNIE MARCH: But it's. You know, I think that is really important because bringing me over to your friend's house, seeing other trans people, and realizing this lady right here. Oh, she's really cool. And it was just normal people. And I think that that is the biggest understanding that I've been able to grasp as far as having a trans son.

[34:43] PATRICK MARCH: It's just that trans people aren't some boogie monster that you talk about on tv. We're just normal people going to work at their store job, going to the movies. You know, just. We're trying to do normal stuff like everybody else. And transitioning is just one more piece of our happiness puzzle. Some people's piece is a big boat. Mine just happens to be testosterone on a boat. I'm really grateful for all of the work you've done in building your understanding with us, you know, with the. I don't know, the entire concept of transitioning. But more importantly, with the struggles and journey that I personally have been through and been on, thanks to your understanding and support, I have been able to feel more comfortable in myself. And I can't say that I would necessarily be as comfortable now if. If I hadn't had it.

[35:44] JENNIE MARCH: So very true. Very true. Well, I really do appreciate you answering my questions and helping not only me, but our listeners understand what it means to be trans, how it has improved your quality of life, and how a good support system is so, so important.

[36:10] PATRICK MARCH: I definitely agree. It's been illuminating to discuss it in the setting as well and kind of put words to thoughts that I've had for a long time.