Jennifer Rackliff and Priscilla Acosta

[00:03] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: Hi, I'm Jennifer Radcliff I'm 38 years old. Today is December 8, 2020 and I am outside of Tulsa, Oklahoma. I am being interviewed today by Priscilla Acosta, who is a friend and colleague.

[00:22] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: Hello, my name is Priscilla Acosta. I am 33 years old. Today is December 8, 2020 and I am in Reno, Nevada and I am interviewing today with Jennifer Radcliff who is a friend, colleague and mentor. So, Jen, why don't we jump right in? You gave an introduction to everybody, but can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your family?

[00:48] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: I have a five year old daughter who is kind of my whole world at the moment, particularly when we're all always indoors or on our own property. We live on a farm outside of Tulsa, Oklahoma. We have, with my parents are very near. We have cows, a dog who I guess is still a puppy. And we, you know, we love to be outside, we love to travel. So this has been a very, very difficult, difficult, a very difficult time for us. Amara, who is 5, is actually a dual citizen. She is a Rwandese American, so she's. Her dad is from Rwanda. She is both American and Cherokee Nation citizen as well, like I am. So that's a little bit about us.

[01:48] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: It's so interesting hearing you say that Amara is five years old because I remember when she was just born and so seeing her grow up and now be a five year old is just so mind blowing. But she's such a cute little curious and such an intelligent child for her age. Has she been in child care since she was an infant?

[02:10] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: We actually were living in both Uganda and the United States for the first two and a half years of her life. So we were back and forth and sorry, not two and a half years, only a year and a half. So we were back and forth from there. So when we moved back to the United States when she was a year and a half years old, I got put on the waitlist at the program that my mom runs for the Delaware Tribe. And I had to wait for quite some time to get care, but she then went into care and I work at home for myself. I'm a consultant for, well, as you know, Priscilla, I'm a consultant for various organizations, the National Indian Childcare association being one of them. And when that happened, I was able to kind of rent a spot near her center and was able to like go have lunch with her all the time, breakfast whenever I wanted. So it was really cool. And in this time, so she was there for about two. Oh, she's five already. Oh, My goodness. For about, I guess, probably three ish years, three and a half. And we were in the process of moving from her care in one town that's about, about 30 minutes away to the same program, but a different center that's a little bit closer to our house. It's only 15 minutes away. And so she had transitioned there. She went for two days and we found out about COVID and I brought her home and we kind of. She was transitioning during. It was actually this time last year, so it was like Christmas time last year. And so we travel a ton already. And we had holiday, like Thanksgiving plans, we had Christmas plans with family. And then I had a work trip that she always goes with me on in February. So we just sort of like lengthened that out and decided she was just not going to go back for those, that small period of time. So I didn't really make a plan for her to not be in care because it was just like, oh, we're just here for a couple of months. Like, we can make it work. We'll figure it out. And then I just remember, like, it was a big thing for her first day back because she was so. She's, she's like super social, you know, Priscilla, she like loves to be talking to everybody and playing with people. And so in March, when we took her back, I think it was, I want to say it was March 16th, we took her back and she just like had so much fun that first day. And then the next day I think we had had some rumblings about COVID and I took her back and I was like, I don't know if this is a really good idea to take her back for a second day. And so I did, and she had so much fun. And then the next day I was just like, I'm sorry, we're not going to be going back again. So that was really, it was really, really hard for her. I mean, she had just grown so accustomed to having friends, but on top of that to having new friends. Like, she was super excited to like reengage with people. So I was sort of like fully ripping a rug out from underneath her. So that, that has been a really big, huge challenge with us. And her program stayed open and they continued to provide care. They did ask for people who were not essential employees to keep their kids at home. So they really gave more of a choice and they didn't necessarily turn anyone away. Like I said, this was a program run by the Washington County Child Care foundation, who provides services for the Delaware Tribe of Indians here in Oklahoma. And they already recognize how important childcare is and how people can't do their work. They can't function as really as adults in society unless they have someone who they trust and can rely on to care for their kids from. I mean, this isn't even just zero to five, which my daughter happened to be, but even when we get to school age and they're not in school, like what happens to their kids between hours of three and six when they get off work, or 2:30 and six when they get off work. So I'm very thankful that her program really gave the option for that. But my background is in public health. I also know substantially about communicable diseases, and it's just not. We had the choice enough that it didn't make any sense. And there are families who don't have the choice that I do, which is I work from home already. So if my work day is disrupted, it's less of an issue. And I luckily have that option. And I know so many people don't. So really, I mean, I took her out because really of the danger of exposure, but also less important. But important also is that, you know, there are people who don't have that capability. So anyways, that was a lot of that. So she's been home with me, and we've just been making it work. And her. Her center, actually a good segue into that is her. Her center that she would have been going to. She's now fully unenrolled. I have no intention of sending her back at this point, but her center just decided to close for the whole rest of the year. To close completely. They're not even open for essential workers. It's completely closed. We live in an area of Oklahoma who. Where the cases are just becoming, like, astronomical and the town that her new center is in is just exploding with COVID cases. And, you know, when I go, I very rarely go out once or not. Probably not even once a week. And over the longer period of this, I was going out way even less than that. But now I probably go out about once a week where I just pick up groceries, you know, deliver a Christmas present. But, you know, I. It's just hard for me to see so many people not being safe about this. And the people who want to be safe don't have the option because they still have to go to work. They still have to provide the services. Amara's childcare center. They do have the option. I mean, they are required in her center to continue to wear masks, but if not everybody is practicing safety outside of that, they just don't have the option. They are required to go and surround themselves by that and surround themselves by the kids, too. And the kids. Kids. Families by extension. So, you know, I guess I appreciate the level of care that her program offers to the families that are in our area. But even then, I mean, they have air purifiers, industrial air purifiers. They are all wearing masks. They come in and change their clothes in a changing room, including shoes and socks. Their clothes never leave the facility. They're washed and dried within the facility. Temperatures are taken, masks are worn, face shields are worn by some people. No one enters and exits the classroom except that one or two teachers that are in that classroom. You know, families can't come in anymore. They don't do family style dining anymore. You know, and like, there's almost nothing else else you could do that the heart center is not doing. And they still close for the whole rest of the month. And, you know, I just, I just feel for all of the families across the country who are having to. I mean, now the families at that center have to figure out what to do for the next month.

[10:57] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: Yes, it's a scary and humbling experience when I feel you do so much, but then there's so much still that's out of your control that you. Yeah, it's just. You hear all the time.

[11:13] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: I kind of feel like we're like babies growing up again. Right. So Amara's learning how to ride a bike. And, well, she knows how to ride a bike, but we just got. She kind of just learned about. During COVID actually, she learned how to ride a bike. And we, she. She's too big for the bike. We already got her to ride on. So now we got her the ginormous bike that she barely can get on and off of. And so I was just thinking, like, I now have to, like, just let her go. I just have to let her fall. And I feel like we're all sort of in that space. We just have to, like, let ourselves, like, fall because we're all just. Everything is scary.

[11:53] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: You brought up something that I want to touch upon. And you said that you have a background in public health, but you find yourself in the early education and early development field. And I think that's a bond that you and I share because I also have a background in public health. And I know we've had this conversation a few times, like, how did we end up here? But with our background in public health, for me specifically, I know this time going through Covid and everything that you just said has been super hard on me as a. I feel fully functioning adult. So I have oftentimes, during this whole pandemic, wondered if I'm struggling and having a hard time, and I fully develop my coping skills and mechanisms. How on earth are young children dealing with all of this? So can you tell us how Amara has been reacting to all these changes and her whole world just being completely upside down?

[12:52] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: I think one of the most salient things that comes out from her is, I guess there's two things. One is when coronavirus is over. There are so many things, like, when coronavirus is over, can I see Priscilla? When coronavirus is over, can we go back to wherever we went last? When I, you know, when coronavirus is over, can I hug Melanie, which is my sister, you know, who lives the closest to us? Outside of my grandparents, we're sort of potted together. But I just, that is. I mean, this is going to be sort of the event for their age. And I mean, that's. She's five, so she's going to remember this. I mean, I think at three, I think if she had been three, I think she would have remembered this. So we're really talking about from anyone from the age of three to, you know, where we are. And I don't think of anything older, but up until this point, I think 9, 11 was the biggest thing in my life. And, you know, this is. This is, you know, the next big thing of my life. And I think that this will probably be that for her. And I, you know, I guess I just. Yesterday I, when we were. We had to pick up our dog from the vet, and I was just like, thinking about just how weird it is that when we interact with another human being, we're wearing a mask. And Amara now just says when we. We don't ever get out and actually interact with people. But if I have to roll down my window, I have a mask on. And she says, did you get my mask? When we walk out the door, and it just, it's so sad. And, you know, we're not. I mean, we are being really restrictive. Like, I don't even let her go on playgrounds and stuff. So, you know, over the summer we took one. We had to go to the dentist. And I kind of. That was the first real outing that we had. And I decided that at that time, going to the dentist, because we have our own concerns, teeth wise, we had our own concerns that going to the dentist, it was worth A little bit of risk to do, so. And so I was like, we're gonna go, but we're gonna do something fun. So we ended up, like, finding a little community park, but I was really apprehensive the whole time, and it luckily turned out there was only one other family there, and they were on one section of it. And then when we left the section we were on, we sort of, like, migrated and switched. But she kept just saying, like, I want to go play with those kids. And I was like, I really want you to play with those kids, too, but we can't right now. And it just makes me so, like, she's super, super outgoing, and so this is going to really leave a mark on her. But I am really, really thankful that my parents live nearby, so she at least has another human besides me that she can be around. We can't really be around my sister and her husband anymore. Given the caseloads now, one of them has to go into an office, into the restaurant that he owns, so he's constantly exposed. He wears a mask and does everything he can. But, you know, that's a level of exposure that we just really don't need to subject ourselves to. And we did get together with them at Thanksgiving, and we were really. There was a bit of trepidation about that. You know, we had windows open, we had an air purifier going. We're not going to do that for Christmas, though. It's. We just can't. It's just gotten so bad that we can't even risk that. And so I feel like Amara is just. I think that the second that we are going to be feel safe and we're allowed to sort of, like, I think even just touch people again, I. Mask or no mask, I don't care. But when we're allowed to touch people, she's probably just going to be, like, hugging everybody on the street everywhere she goes. Like, the UPS guy, like, hugs the postal worker, the grocery store checkout person. So that's kind of what I expect her to be and how her to act.

[17:37] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: I think Amara and I are cut from the same cloth because I definitely miss hugging people so much. And I've seen so many, like, funny, like, memes that people share online. And it's. People are saying, if you're an introvert or, like, not a touchy feely person, this has been, like, the best eight months of your life. And for me, it's like agony. Like, I just want to hug people. I want to touch people. I don't have any kids, as you know, but I have a few close friends in town who have had kids within the last year, and I haven't been able to see them. I've been able to see pictures and see them from afar, but I wish so badly that I could, you know, go welcome the baby, hold the baby, hug the parents, and, like, be there with them. And I. It's just not a safe time, I feel, to do that. And so it's hard, and. And you really realize how fast time goes when there's a baby or a kid involved, because it's already been a year, and there's so many milestones, and I'm like, oh, did. Did baby do this? Did baby do that? And they're like, yes. And I'm like, oh, I'm missing out on that. But, yep, just definitely.

[18:53] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: And, you know, you're in this field, like, you know that they're doing all of those things. You're like, oh, the first step.

[19:00] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: Exactly.

[19:01] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: Oh, I'm missing them sitting up, and I'm missing them, like, reading and engaging with reading and. Yeah.

[19:08] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: Yep. Yeah. I asked.

[19:12] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: Because, you know, Amara's dad, William, is outside. He lives about an hour outside of Boston, and so he hardly gets to see her on the. On a regular basis because he has a job that he works hours that are really difficult for him to get vacation aside from, so. Well, actually, that was prior to Covid, and then in the middle of COVID he changed jobs, so he has a little bit more of a stable job at this point that he can request time off, but, like, that's not an option. Massachusetts had quarantining requirements and, you know, airplane flights and stuff. So we just. We had talked about him visiting her for Thanksgiving, and I had considered, because since I work at home, that I was like, well, maybe we could just drive up there and we could limit our exposure and all that. And it just sort of came to be like, we. We would be exposing ourselves to probably hundreds of people having to even just stop at bathrooms. Like, even if I. You know, I usually pack our food when we do road trips anyways, but if we would still have to stop for bathrooms and gas. And so I kind of just ended up telling her dad that it just wasn't an option for us to do that, but if he wanted to fly, we would just do the best we could do. But it wasn't an option for him because when he went back, he works in healthcare, he would have to go back and quarantine to work. So he hasn't Seen her in person for. Well, actually, fortunately he saw her in February right before this happened. But he's never missed a birthday, so he missed this year. And at this point, I mean, he's probably in line for one of the first vaccinations. Whatever, you know, whatever that looks like. We are not. We are in. I did some like, thing the other day where it told me how far in line I was. I'm the next to the last person, so I'm not ever getting it. But anyways, so, you know, even when that happens, it's going to be a while. So who knows when she's gonna get to see him again. I mean, that, you know, that's sort of. She hasn't seen my other sister who lives in Philadelphia and is also quarantining pretty heavily. But, you know, no one in her life, everybody in her life is doing just what you said. I mean, she has like, zoom dates with her dad. I mean, her papa calls her every day and. But that's kind of the extent of it.

[22:06] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: And that's so sad. It is. I have said that during this time, I don't think I have been as many calls or seen friends who are far in, like, distance, like, geographically as much as I have. Like, I've had so many zoom dates with friends and family and talked to them more during this time. But surprisingly, despite that, I've never felt more removed and secluded from everyone before. So it's like a weird, like, opposition of I'm more engaged in communication, but emotionally, it. It's like not a reciprocal relationship. So I, I found that to be very odd and challenging, as I said before, but, I mean, it's just. I. I don't know, I. I'm. I'm hopeful, but I'm also just gotta remind myself that I'm. We all are doing this to be safe and even though it's hard, we have to do it.

[23:11] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: And there is a little bit of comfort knowing that the whole world is in it, I guess. No, you know, I don't know. I feel kind of bad saying that, like, I'm so glad the whole world is suffering, but, you know, but there is a little bit of comfort saying in recognizing that literally every corner of the world, no matter how remote or removed you are, literally every single person is experiencing this.

[23:39] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: That's very true.

[23:41] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: And so I think there for me, there's a little bit of comfort in that. And I, you know, I really hope that it. It brings a little bit of like, I don't know, like, world unity. And a little bit of, like, empathy across the world for, like, just acknowledging that now we have, literally, we all have this one thing that we all know. Like, how crazy is that to think about?

[24:12] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: Yeah, it is. It's a very interesting thing to think about. Everyone in the world is going through it. I think that also has, during the hard days, reminding myself that everyone is going through the same struggles and hardships right now that I am. So I also feel like you a little guilty saying that because I don't want the world to suffer. But there is some camaraderie in the fact that I'm not alone and I'm not the only one that's feeling this way. So in a weird way, it does bring me some comfort. Jen, do you want to pivot into talking about how we have known each other over the years in our experience with tribal communities, in particular, tribal childcare? And like, what does that look like? How does tribal childcare differ from the day to day childcare that, you know, when people think about, they might envision?

[25:11] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: You know, I think during this time, it has really highlighted, I think, the similarities that we all have. And I think when I'm talking with people across the country about the challenges in tribal communities, it seems so strange because in normal times we have all of these uniquenesses where each different tribal language is spoken or is taught or different customs are shared. And there are 567 federally recognized tribes, and then there's, you know, hundreds, maybe more of state recognized tribes and then tribes that aren't even recognized at all. And so just the diversity in them. And I get so used to talking about everyone is every tribe, every person, of course is. But every tribe is so unique in the things that are happening in their communities. And I think what came, what has come out of this is that. And we're finding, like, how not so unique we are. And like, we're all struggling with these same issues, like we can't get supplies, we don't. Our families aren't coming, so we don't have an income if I'm a provider. But the one thing that I think has been the most salient in that is that for all of the communities that. And people in the field that I have spoken to, they have these same issues. But the issue is that it's so much harder. And I think that the equity point of all of this has really, really reared its head. And, you know, a couple of stories have come to my mind, and one of them is in Seattle. I think it was the Seattle Indian Health Board. I don't know if I'd had a chance to tell you this story before, Priscilla, but at the Seattle Indian Health Board, they had requested supplies for dealing with this with COVID and just supplies, like, all sorts of supplies. You know, sanitary masks, like, everything. And they were sent body bags. No supplies. Body bags. And, you know, and, like, the Seattle Indian Health Board is like. Is a big institution. Like, it's not a little tiny, you know, thing. And so I'm just sort of left thinking with, like, I. I don't even know what to say about that. It was. Was it an accident?

[27:56] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: Yeah, I was just gonna say, was that an accident?

[27:59] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: And then, you know, I know. In. In South Dakota, one of the Sioux nations actually closed their borders, and they're situated right on an interstate, and they closed their borders, meaning the people going on the interstate in the state of South Dakota could not drive through their reservation. And I don't actually know what happened from all of that, but they did. It was a big, huge thing. And they prevented people from coming out of the reservation because our people are getting hurt by this so much more than many other communities of the country. One of our colleagues, Priscilla Candice, was telling us. I don't remember if it was a call that we were on together or a conversation I had with her at another time, but she is. I think she's a member of the Hualapai Nation, but she, or at least lives very nearby. And she told us that hundreds of people in her community got Covid and that a substantial portion of people died from it. And I didn't have true context for that. And so later I looked it up, and the reservation that she was talking about is near the Grand Canyon, so. Right. Kind of. Well, I guess, relatively speaking, in your neck of the woods, still pretty far. But they have. I looked up their population. They have, like, 1600 people on their reservation. 130 or more got Covid. And 13 of those people passed away. And that was back in October. So we're still humans. Out from that. Thirteen people passed away. So to kind of put that into context, like, one in 100 got Covid, and of those, one in a hundred, one in ten didn't make it. I mean, like, that is crazy.

[30:04] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: Those numbers are so startling and just jarring. Like, there's, like, not even a word anymore for that.

[30:13] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: Yeah, I mean, like. So I don't personally have a true fear of passing away from COVID My fear for Amara, and I don't for Amara either, but my fear for Amara is that we don't know the long term implication. My real fear is that like, like I'm just thinking, I don't remember where I was going with that, but my real fear was that, oh, that's what I saying. So my thought was that I don't have a real fear of passing away from it, but can you imagine, like if you were to get it, you had a 1 in 10 chance of not making it. Like, that's crazy.

[31:00] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: That is really crazy. I think my biggest fear in all of this is I, I feel that I am a healthy, young enough person that I don't think I would have any serious complications you touched on. We don't know what the lasting implications are. So that is a fear. But my, I think my biggest fear is that I would then pass it on to somebody who is not in the same health range that I am. And I would feel immense guilt if I knew that I pass it on to someone who maybe would be those 1 in 10 who didn't make it. And that is just like, I'm getting goosebumps now just thinking about it because it is just unfathomable to me to think that. And yeah, and I think like, I.

[31:51] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: Have just really been so concerned about what like I think that our kids are going to have some lasting implications of this, but I really, really am concerned about our people who are taking care of those kids. I know that in Amara's center, like there is so much fear, like what you're explaining of, like, I'm doing the best I can, but there's only so much I can do to prevent that spread. So think of that amount of stress on the people who are caring for hundreds of kids and then by extension their families.

[32:33] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: And we've talked about that. We've had trainings, we've hosted trainings, national trainings about the amount of stress and personal self care that early childcare providers need to have for themselves on a pre Covid and how daunting and demanding that job is. And so I can't even imagine like you and I are both in this field. But my hat goes off to those providers because that is a lot of hard work day after day and you have to be on top of it and dealing with the 20,000 new things that they have to meet as far as like regulations and safety and Covid requirements. It's yes, it's, it's so, so much. And yes, my hat goes off to them because that's a lot.

[33:28] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: You know, one thing that I think about Because I'm. I recognize all this in the day to day that they're doing. And I, And I hear it. I hear it from all of, you know, all of the people that I work with who are admit, who are running these programs, and they're really stressed about it. But one of the things that I. That have really kind of come to light for me is what we're doing right to deal with this. And I think that there's so many tribes across the country that are doing it right, and some like. And I think for them, you know, I don't necessarily. They're doing it right and everybody should take a look at that and do the same. The Hualapai nation closed itself and for, you know, a while. And I know that some of our tribal nations here in Oklahoma shut down services. Largely, their reasoning for that was because so many people were working within their. Within their government and the government was, you know, still functioning but closed in person. And they could do that. They could keep everybody safe from doing that in other places. You know, they were just. I guess what I'm getting at is that they could so easily pivot and take care of what they needed to do in their communities. And, you know, I recognize that not everybody can do that when you're talking about an entire state's worth of programs or services. But the Cherokee Nation covers a larger area and bigger population than a large number of states in the country. And, you know, I think they had a pretty good handle on this. And, you know, like, I guess what I think is I just really hope that we look to these examples of communities and people that were quick to respond to what was necessary. I don't know that we will, but my hope is that we can. Can do that in the future.

[35:43] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: I. I feel like I have similar hopes, Jen, here in Nevada. Many of our tribes, especially the small rural tribes in reservations, shut down their borders. And I know that a lot of tribal members at the beginning were not in favor of that, and they opposed and were very vocal about why they felt that shouldn't be the case. But seeing as how the numbers went in Nevada and seeing the numbers within tribal communities and the number of individuals who contracted Covid, I think it was a good response. And I think that you do see that these tribal leaders, these tribal communities are making those hard decisions, but always putting their community first. And they think that, you know, you. Earlier, you said prior to this call that they've had generations of resiliency training. This is nothing new to tribes. And I feel Like I'm using your words again. They're flexing their muscles and they're showing us that when it comes to tribal communities and tribal families, that's it. They're going to put tribal families first and through this, that's their beacon, that's their northern star and that's how they're going to get past this. And my hope is that through this COVID 19 pandemic, the silver lining is everyone realizes the importance of taking care of each other. But most importantly when it comes to our work that people understand the importance of childcare and why it's so important. Because like you said, it's not just zero to five, it's those school age kids who's taking care of them if parents are at work from 3 to 6 or whatever the time is. So do you have any closing thoughts on that?

[37:34] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: Yeah, you made me think about something that I think is really important to show just how much tribes across the country were protecting and supporting this field. In some of the research that we did the we actually heard from providers who were not tribal but served tribal families that the only way they were able to keep their doors open is because tribes continued to pay based on the number of children that were enrolled in their center. And I state that didn't happen but the tribes did it. And so the tribes were the ones who were able to be, to show that flexibility and to show that, to I guess understand that need. And like that's sort of like the soapbox that I get on. I'm like how like let's all like there's, there's all this opportunity to work together and to come together and share why are we not doing that. But anyways, I just thought it was really awesome to hear stories of how tribes are continuing to support the field because that didn't happen in the rest of my state. I agree other states as well, I know had a little bit of better handle on it.

[39:09] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: But no, it was very similar here in Nevada. We kept paying our non tribal providers as well and they reached out and said similar things. You're keeping us afloat and I think it's unfortunate that we find ourselves in this situation but I think that it's really shown a light on the leadership within the early childcare field in the tribal communities, but also tribal communities dedication to future generations and basically their future leaders. So I'm really proud to say that you and I, I think can, can take a small little chunk and say we helped do that and it helps me sleep better at night. And it definitely makes me feel like we are doing important work. So way to go, Jen.

[40:00] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: You too, Priscilla. I'm just, like, happy to be going through that. This experience, I think, while. While working with tribal childcare, because like you said, it's. It just feels so awesome to be a part of something that. That very truly and outwardly and monetarily and obviously appreciates the efforts of. Of their community, tribal or non tribal.

[40:37] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: Yes. It's all for the kids and all for the future generations, like I said. So I'm so glad we got to have this chat today, Jen. It was lovely to hear from you.

[40:47] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: I do this often.

[40:48] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: I definitely do. I'm definitely looking forward to the days that we can see each other in person. And I can hug little Amara.

[40:57] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: Oh, we can hug too. Yes, I'm all for hugging. I'm ready to, like, hug people. I know. I'm just not going to be hugging the strangers. Although by the time Covid wraps up, I might be hugging strangers too. Walk out.

[41:11] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: Yes. While sending you back, the Radcliff family.

[41:14] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: Will be coming at you.

[41:17] PRISCILLA ACOSTA: Thanks so much. Virtual hugs. Bye.

[41:20] JENNIFER RADCLIFF: Thanks, Priscilla.