Jered Cooper and Reese Barrett

00:01 My name is Reese. I am 18 years old. I'm in Charlottesville, Virginia. It's September 29, 2022, and I'm talking to Jared.

00:11 Jared, I'm 20 years old. I'm in Charlottesville, Virginia. This is September 29, 2022, and my partner's name is Reese.

00:23 Very good. All right, so I want to ask you both how you came to find out about one small step and what.

00:31 Made you want to have this conversation. Well, for me, I have a class in which we talk about political dialogue. You know, my professor, she loves all sorts of things that involve talking within politics to better understand people. And I believe she mentioned. I want to say she mentioned this program on the first day, but it's been so long ago, I can't quite remember the first day of class. But I think she did reference this.

01:04 Yeah, I was in a similar situation. I was in an engagements course titled who should lead? And my professor kind of talked about this and introduced us to it. I think there are really two reasons that I was interested in actually doing it. The first one is because I like talking. I was a debate kid in high school, so this is like. Like, my favorite thing. And then I also just enjoy people and meeting new people and talking to people and stuff like that, so.

01:33 Great.

01:35 All right, so the first thing we.

01:37 Always do is have you introduce your partner based off the bio that they've provided.

01:42 So in front of you, you have.

01:43 A copy of what your partner wrote about themselves.

01:46 So I'm going to ask each of you to take a moment to read.

01:49 Out their bio, and then after you.

01:52 Read your partner's bio, take a couple of minutes to ask any immediate questions.

01:57 That come to mind.

01:58 If there's anything you want to follow.

01:59 Up on, and I'll give you each.

02:01 About five minutes to do that, and.

02:03 Then we'll open it up to the.

02:05 Remainder of the questions. Sound good?

02:08 Yes.

02:08 All right, so you can decide who goes first?

02:13 I could let the first year go first.

02:16 Okay, so I guess. When did you move to. Oh, wait, so first, read out your. Oh, read.

02:21 Yeah, read it out loud.

02:22 Out loud. Okay. Gotcha. Out loud for us.

02:24 I love the enthusiasm, truly.

02:26 And then go in with the questions. Okay. Hello. I'm Jared. I'm from Maryland, but I consider Virginia to be my unofficial home as I become older, I grew up right outside of Washington, DC, and that has shaped a great deal of who I am. Some of my earliest memories are visiting the monuments and museums of our nation's capital and feeling a sense of wonder and awe. I still feel that way. Today, the issues of greatest importance to me, broadly speaking, are government efficiency, fiscal policy and foreign affairs.

02:55 My name is Reese, I am from Jupiter, Florida, and I am a student at UVA. I moved to Florida from VA at nine and I lived in a single parent household since I was six because my father passed away. I'm a first generation college student and I'm interested in government and sociology and big questions. I was a debate kid in high school, so I love talking and thinking. All right, fire away.

03:23 Okay, so then I guess I'll just ask. The question I was asking earlier is, when did you move to Virginia?

03:31 Well, see, that's a little. It comes to a little bit of the way I worded that. That was not the best wording. I still live in Maryland, but I went to high school in Virginia. I went to community college in Virginia and now I go to four year college in Virginia. So it feels like while, yes, technically I am a Maryland resident, the commonwealth feels more like my home. Okay. Now, do you still live in Florida?

04:00 Yes, my mom still lives in Florida and that's where I'm a registered voter and that's where I have my driver's license. So I currently live in Florida.

04:09 Yeah, must be nice.

04:13 It's nice. Sometimes it's a little hot year round. I like the seasonal change in Virginia a lot more. Okay, so then I have another question. I'm interested to know you mentioned the monuments. I'm interested to know why you have that sense of wonder. Both you mentioned that you had it before and also still today. I'm curious why it still maintains that.

04:40 Well, because. Have you ever been to Washington, DC?

04:45 I have, yeah.

04:45 Okay, now I can go with this. There are all sorts of these grand statues and plaques and buildings of not just presidents, but of generals or everyday people who just. They did very heroic things or they did life changing things and we honor them in some way. And that makes me go, hey, maybe I can do something like that. Maybe there is hope for me.

05:08 Interesting.

05:10 It feeds into, I guess I have what some people might call an overhealthy sense of idealism.

05:18 Do you think that the monuments in DC represent an ideal?

05:24 I think they do. The best we have to offer as a nation.

05:29 Do you think that's a reality or is it a just an ideal? Is it?

05:33 Well, I think it can be. Can mean different things for different people. To me, it's a reality and an ideal. But I know there are those who would challenge me on that one very quickly.

05:44 Interesting.

05:45 Okay. All right. Do you have any siblings?

05:51 I do have one sister. She lives in North Carolina. I think she's 26 now. So of a difference between our ages. So I lived, I think, the majority of my, I guess, conscious life or childhood, rather, without a sibling, but I still have one just in a different state. Yeah. What about you?

06:14 I'm an only child, so I've always been that one of want.

06:20 And then why did you choose to go to school in Virginia? Or was it a choice both for high school, community college, and then college?

06:28 Well, the schools in high school, they were better in Virginia than in Maryland. Sorry, I don't have Covid. I just have allergies.

06:38 But.

06:39 But for college, there was a choice. I could have gone. I could have gone to North Carolina. I could have gone to Pennsylvania. But I really liked, I liked the options here. Again, I liked the University of Virginia. I liked William and Marriott, the schools that I contemplated attending. So while I could have gone, I just think. I think I like the educational quality. But even then, that's. They all had good educational quality. So it's not a knock to the other states. It's just that. And my transfer credits did move easiest from a Virginia community college to a Virginia four year. But that's something, right?

07:19 So what do you think it is, then, that made you choose Uva over even William and Mary, the other. The other schools that you're considering?

07:30 I think what really moved the needle for me was its rich history of traditions and the beauty of the whole just grounds and the landscape. I still feel a sense of, whoa. When I walk. There's, like this one path on central grounds. If you walk the lawn and you just like. And you can see the rotunda, and if you look the other way, you can see old Kavalan just like, wow, this is beautiful.

07:59 Right?

08:00 I think I really wanted to see that on, like, a daily basis. Compared to the University of North Carolina, which, it's a great school, it's equally old, but it's just not as pretty.

08:10 Right.

08:10 Completely fair, superficial reasons. But, hey, you know, I think equally.

08:15 Important, though, because I think I chose Uva for similar reasons. I like, I think it's pretty.

08:20 It's pretty.

08:20 Yeah, I. So. Well, you mentioned tradition. Oh, sorry. You mentioned tradition as well. I'm just interested to know, because obviously not all of the traditions at Uva are good traditions. So how do you kind of navigate that aspect of it? Like, do you only appreciate the traditions that are good, or do you ignore the ones that are not? Or do you see those too, and appreciate those and take those into account?

08:43 Well, to tell you the truth, I don't really focus on the negative ones. I take things in more of a broad stroke, face value. I see. Oh, my goodness. Jefferson designed the academic village. I don't think about the slaves that built it. I don't think about the fact that African Americans weren't allowed into the fifties. I don't think about those sorts of things. I look at it in more of a look at the architecture on that building. How wonderful.

09:09 Why do you think you do that? Is it just out of, like, a discomfort or I. Do you? Maybe just. It's better to focus on the positive aspects than the negative aspects.

09:18 Not a discomfort. But, I mean, I've always been that way. I don't typically, I'm trying to think how to word this, but most of the time I'm not bothered or up in arms about certain things and the way other people are. I bet there is a better way to work that. And I know maybe tonight I'm gonna have, like a. Ah, that's the word I should have used. That was.

09:45 So then do you think that it's important, like, in any case, to think about. To have those thoughts or to think about the fact that maybe Uva doesn't have a good history or maybe some of the traditions aren't good, per se?

10:00 As with everything, I think personal choice and opinion. If you would like to focus on the negative and the positive, that's great. If you'd like to only consider the negative, fine by me. And if you wanna look at the disneyfied version of everything like I do, that's perfectly acceptable. I think it's important to have everything on the table available for people to take. They don't have to take everything, but as long as it's there and free and available for people, I'm okay with that.

10:32 Interesting.

10:34 We might have you revisit this kind.

10:36 Of, like, topic soon. I want to take a trip back, though.

10:40 We have a couple of questions we.

10:42 Like to ask about growing up and first, memories. And so I wonder if you can.

10:47 Kind of ask questions three and four, very, you know, get a little bit of background for each of you, so.

10:54 You can feel free to ask each.

10:55 Other in whichever order you prefer. You want to start with three or four?

11:02 Three.

11:03 Okay, let's see who has been the most influential person in your life. What did they teach you?

11:09 Hmm. I think this is a hard question. I think that the most influential person in my life is probably my mom. I don't think that there's someone else that, like, had more of an influence on me. I think she's probably taught me the most about life at large. The reason for that is because obviously, I grew up in a single parent household, like I mentioned. So, you know, really it was. And for a long time, it was only me and her. So I think, like, watching her go through life and seeing her be strong and resilient as we kind of, you know, navigated all the things that life has to throw at you, that was definitely very, very influential for me growing up especially. So. Yeah, what about you?

11:56 Well, I have the same answer. My mother, I don't come from a single parent household. My father is. He is still around. They have separated, but a lot of. But even so, even when he used to live with us, it was always she and I. We were the. We were the parent. Even when I went to college, people always said, can you two handle this separation, this prolonged separation? Can you manage? I know how close you and Jared are. I'm like, wow, okay. And she's taught me a great deal about, I mean, from her love of politics came my love of politics. The things that she likes and a great deal have shaped what I like. It's like I'm her shadow or just an extension of her at times. And she had resilience. She came from a larger family, and so that shaped a lot of her. Never quit. Don't be afraid to get confrontational attitude at times where I'm more of a, let's not rock the boat here. Maybe let's keep it simple.

13:01 Interesting. So then you mentioned that your mom kind of brought you up in politics. What do you think your first memory of politics is?

13:09 The only reason I can answer this question is because in my political dialogue class, they ask this question. So the memory is still fresh on my mind. Make you sit through a ten minute head scratcher.

13:20 Right.

13:22 But my earliest political memory, I think it was 2007, late 2007. It was when they called then President George W. Bush a lame duck. And I remember that well because I thought, why is the president a duck? What does that even mean? He's a. He's. I'm pretty. I was five. I had no idea what that even meant now. Only later did I realize what the term meant. And now it was appropriate to describe where he was at that point in his presidency. But I just remember being so confused.

13:53 Right.

13:59 What is your first memory of politics?

14:02 See, this is a little bit harder for me because I don't have a political dialogue class to rely on. But I think the earliest memory that I have of politics was, I think the first time I was conscious of politics was maybe I knew that Obama was the president, you know, first and second grade. And then I think in third grade was his second time, actually. I don't really know. I remember him running against someone. I can't remember who it was at this moment. And I remember that my third grade teacher had lived down the street from me, and she had the sign for his opponent in her yard. And I remember distinctly someone, she said something in class, and I was like, oh, is that why you're voting for this person? And that's like the first time that I remember actually being cognizant of politics or just like government, really.

15:09 You went for it?

15:10 Yeah, he did.

15:12 Because I think it was the 2012 election. I think he ran against Mitt Romney.

15:16 That's the one.

15:18 So are you. That's funny. I'm gonna be chuckling about that for a few hours.

15:26 Yeah, keep going.

15:29 Okay. And I don't have the full question list, so at times I have to rely on you.

15:34 Oh, good. So then I guess ask the next question is if you could briefly describe your political values.

15:44 Briefly, that's the key word here. You can elaborate, too.

15:48 It doesn't have to be too brief.

15:54 I think my personal political values are things like limited government, personal freedom, personal responsibility. The idea that we're not, it's going to come into a lot of different Ronald Reagan quotes. I hate to do this because especially here at college, people always give you a look when you use a Reagan quote and anything, but we the people, it comes from his farewell address. And it something to the extent of we are the drivers of the car. The government doesn't tell us where to go. We tell the government where to go. And I think all of these, like, these very hands off, get out of my way. Let people do their own thing. I think also, I'm not quite sure how to answer the question, so I'm gonna let you do it. And based off your answer, I'm gonna come back and amend my highs, because I don't think I answered it correctly.

16:52 No, I thought that was insightful. I think that my political values, I mean, I think government should work for people. So I think that if people aren't doing well, it's a reflection of how well the government's operating. And I think that I'm generally in favor of the government being able or not being able, necessarily, but taking a more affirmative stance on social issues and saying, like, providing more social impact, I guess programs like expanding healthcare helping people financially when they need it. I think that the government should be compassionate towards its people. So I think that that might differ from you and. Oh, yes, it does. I don't really think, I'm not too pro limited government is how you put it. I think that the government should be available and accessible to people and that it should work to help people. But I will also say that I'm a very, very strong believer in liberty as a general principle. So I think that it should do all of those things out of respect, also for the fact that people should be able to have freedom and liberty to do as they please. And so.

18:19 Yeah, interesting, interesting.

18:22 Does that kind of help you answer?

18:25 I think I may have answered it.

18:26 Correctly, yeah, I think you did too.

18:29 But it's interesting that you take that view of a more compassionate government that can do things for people, whereas I have. The more the government can't do anything right, therefore we should just let the private sector handle it.

18:41 Well, I think, like, I think the reason, I think the government perhaps should not take away the opportunity for the private sector to engage in certain policy issues. But I think the government is a good competitor for private industry to engage in those policy issues. Like an example of a policy that I guess I generally support is a public healthcare option, which is what the government kind of has now with Medicare and Medicaid. But I think expanding that to allow for just an outright public option, I think driving down healthcare costs by having the government as a competitor with private healthcare would be a good thing. So I guess that's a less limited government, but I think it's also competing with the private sector.

19:33 Where do you think that view comes from, if you want to elaborate on that?

19:38 Yeah, so I think it's difficult to put my finger on it, but I think I've always been a compassionate person. I really don't want people to feel bad. I think everyone, the government should generally provide for the common good because I think that everyone should have the opportunity to be happy and have equally good experiences. So I think that that's kind of generally where it comes from, just kind of a deep seated value of mine that I've always had. But I think also more generally as it relates to the specific policy manifestations of that. I think that my experiences as a debate kid in high school really kind of shifted my policy views quite substantially because I think that exploring and researching all of these different topics and having hard conversations about really difficult issues really helped me to kind of set some parameters around what I was thinking or rather what I felt and how I felt those things should, should manifest.

20:42 Interesting.

20:44 What about you? Where do you think your views come from?

20:47 Well, I don't want to say my views are a lack of compassion.

20:50 I wasn't trying to suggest that.

20:54 I think it's more of a, I don't know. For the longest time, I think I've always just kind of looked at things not on a personal level, but more in like a dollars and cents cost benefit analysis. I don't look at, like most government programs, I don't look at them as, look at how many people they've helped. I look at, okay, here's how much money you're spending. You're not spending this money on this. Therefore, the care is not good, so you should not be doing it. And, but I'll be honest with you, a lot of this, for most, for a great majority of my life, it was something that was in the background. You know, I watched, I watched the politics. I hear the discussions. But it wasn't until my senior year of high school that a lot of the way I feel about political issues did it finally start to cement. And it was, it was the summer after I graduated, it was 2020. That was the summer where a lot of the positions and platforms that I hold now, they kind of started to solidify because prior to that, they were always kind of there, but they weren't as they were more, I guess we could say mild. It was always, I don't think the government should do that, but maybe we could have a happy option. But that was more, that was what 17 year old, 16 year old apolitical Jared who was just trying to go home.

22:30 Well, I guess my question then is if you mentioned that, or maybe this is just how I understood it, the primary reason you're in favor of a more limited government is for the, the dollars and cents aspect of it. Curious why that's important to you, why the government fiscal policy. And I guess budgeting is something that you value.

22:51 Well, my mother worked for a federal agency that dealt with the budget at one point in time, and she's a very analytical person. I like to think of myself as an analytical person. I try succeed at least maybe 50% of the time. And I, in my senior year, I took an economics class. I struggled in microeconomics. I was awful at it. But macroeconomics, the part that actually dealt with things like stimulus packages and actual government intervention in the economy, things like that, they made sense to me, and it started clicking. It felt like a light bulb turned on in my head, I'm like, hey, why would we do this if this obviously isn't working? The charts don't lie. Assuming I drew them correctly, if my teacher said yes, Jared, you drew the chart correctly. I feel like, hey, maybe they shouldn't be doing this. Let's get out the way and let somebody efficient get in there to help people.

23:53 Interesting. Do you think the best measure of how well government's doing is how much money it's spending?

24:00 Oh, yeah.

24:01 Okay. And then what do you, like, measure that up against? Because, like, they're spending a lot of money, but it's doing something that's really good. Like, what do you, how do you, like, navigate? Like, is it if they're spending a lot of money and it's not doing enough or it's not having a proportional like result? Like, when does it become too much money? Not enough. Good.

24:22 I would always look at it based off of our, our national debt, which isn't going away, and how much of a deficit do we run in our yearly budget, which we haven't had a balanced budget in 20 years. So that's how I would look at success if we could have a balanced budget. Now, we may not have all the social programs or even the non discretionary spending that people have come to love, but if they were balanced, I think that would be pretty great.

24:51 Interesting.

24:51 People may be hurting now in the short term, but their children and their children's children will thank them for their sacrifices and their austerity.

25:02 Interesting.

25:03 So I want to jump in for.

25:04 A second because I think, you know.

25:09 As conversations around policies get kind of deeper, I want to make sure we ground them in, like your lived experiences as well.

25:16 So I want to return to a.

25:18 Couple of things that you both mentioned.

25:20 And ask if you want to maybe explore or dive into greater detail with those.

25:26 So I'll start with you, Reese, and.

25:29 Then I'll go to you, Jared, and.

25:30 Of course, add on to this.

25:32 I'm just going to give you some starting questions. So, Reese, you're first year and first.

25:39 Generation student, you said, and on the younger end, I think of our participants.

25:44 Who have done this program. So I'm curious to ask you, you know, how some of the reasonings behind.

25:50 Your views have also been shaped by.

25:52 The time that you've grown up in.

25:54 And if you've noticed or how you.

25:58 Kind of think about the past, maybe eight years or so that you've been kind of thinking about these issues? So I'll start there. Okay. Respond, and then I'll come back for you, Jared. Yeah. So I think it's like, I think it's undeniable that, like, where you're growing up is going to have an impact on, or. Exactly. I guess, the social aspect or context in which you're growing up is going to have an impact on how you view the world. I think that, for me, I grew up in actually a more conservative household, and I'm less conservative than I think the average person or the average American at least, might be. But I think that despite that, I think I really have to, like, give it to my experience in high school as a debate student, researching and thinking about these issues and thinking about good policy decisions. I think that's really what shaped my policy views today. And I will also say that perhaps over the last four or five years, specifically, as I've both paid more attention to politics and compared our politics today to what I understood politics to be, you know, 1015 years ago. And even before that, I think it's, it's kind of, it's a, it's, it's become my belief that we're in a different place now than we've ever been in politically, both in terms of polarization, how well our government's operating. And I think that now more than ever, we need something. We need something to change urgently. So I think that both researching, learning about and then talking about these issues has kind of shaped my understanding of them. It's a very individual basis because I don't really think that I had, you know, like a big, I guess, political, political influence in my life. And I think that even, even though, like, perhaps in, like, high school, my friends were more liberal and stuff like that, I think I've always questioned why people believe things that they do and whether or not I truly believe those things or if I'm just, you know, hopping on the bandwagon, I've always tried to be very cautious of that just because I don't think that I really want to latch on to something that I don't genuinely agree with. So I think that's where, where my policy views kind of come from in my life, specifically over the last four to five years. And I'll ask my question for you, Jared, and then, of course, keep going with each other. I want to return to a point that you brought up, that in the.

28:47 Summer of 2020, after you graduated, a lot of your views solidified.

28:52 2020, obviously, election year, tons of unrest around violence and brutality from the police.

28:58 And a lot going on.

29:00 The pandemic.

29:01 Could you describe what was going through your kind of mind, how you were.

29:05 Processing that and how or what events kind of you attribute to that metamorphosis.

29:14 Well, you know, 2020, you know, that election, your eye. I was really plugged in for the whole event. I started when the democratic primary debate started in June 2019. I was there glued to my tv, ready to, because I wanted to hear both parties out. I assumed there'd be republican primary. There weren't that. I watched all primary debates. I listened to all the early state coverage, because I wanted to approach this election with an open mind, thinking that it would just be a referendum on the economy or Donald Trump or some other thing. And then Covid came in the whole 15 days to slow the spread. Oh, yeah, look how great that worked out is. We're on what day? A thousand or something. And then the George Floyd protests that happened. And I remember sitting, sitting in my room looking at the television, and I. I could never quite understand where the people on the streets were coming from because, I mean, yes, this is awful that this man has died. This is bad. This is awful. But then I would see people with signs that said, defund the police, abolish the police. And I would. It didn't make any sense to me why anyone would want to get rid of law enforcement. Like, that's not the problem. What you're describing is overkill. And then as the summer continued with more unrest and just, it seemed to be a time where people were losing faith in their government and when Americans were losing faith within themselves, I think a lot of it. And I listened to the rhetoric of, at first, both major parties, and then as nominees were chosen, you know, Joe Biden for the Democrats, Donald Trump for the Republicans, as I listened to what both of them had to say about the issues that were currently plaguing the nation, I began to realize that I had some pretty strong feelings on some of them. And then, now, granted, not all of them lined up neatly in the red blue column, but on some of the big ones, I had a pretty deep understanding of how I should feel about this. It was always so odd to me because a lot of people out there were people our age who were doing this, and I could never quite understand that. Like I am. I bothered, yes, but you don't see me going out there knocking over cars, and not all of them were violent, of course, but that's what I saw from my tv set and on these social media and just as a whole. And that just made me very. Made me very wary of, I guess, a certain section of the political, not compass, but spectrum. There we go. That's the term I was looking for.

32:11 Interesting. Well, then I guess my first question would be, you mentioned that you were opposed to the defunding the police movement. I'm kind of curious how you reconcile, because, well, I guess there are two ways to approach this. Police, obviously, are probably one of the more invasive aspects of our government, and then they're also pretty. We spend a pretty good amount of money on policing in America. So I'm kind of curious how you reconcile your limited government views and your fiscal policy views with a very prominent police presence in America.

32:52 Well, first, I'm not going to sit here and say we should give them more money. That's definitely. I'm not the person who's ever going to say that. I think they get just enough money. They're doing. If anything, we should give them just a little less instead of defund. If they had said, let's reallocate some of that money and train them better and maybe spend a little less so they can interact with communities in a more effective way than I would have been right there with them, with a sign saying, yes, reallocate funding. Whoo. Limited government dream. But I know police, they have a very invasive presence in a lot of people's lives. And I know for a lot of communities of color, the police are a negative thing. Now, I can't speak to that personally. I know it will happen one day as I age. But for me personally and the people that I know, we've never had negative experiences with law enforcement, but I know very well that there are those who have had these negative experiences. And I think a lot of that shapes my view is I can only judge something based on how I have been treated by said entity or organization. And I think, no, they shouldn't be that invasive. They shouldn't be. You know, this semester I'm taking a commercial law class, and we talked about what the police can and cannot do to you. Like professor said, you have to ask, are you being detained? Don't be afraid to ask and say your rights. You have a right. And I just. But I do think they could be a little less invasive. You know, promote the public good, keep people safe. But maybe we shouldn't be docking down people's doors at 03:00 a.m. you know, just a thoughtful way.

34:31 Yeah, well, that's really interesting to me because I feel like part of the defund the police movement was the reallocation aspect of it, and perhaps it wasn't reallocation within policing it was more. So take money away from the police forces and then reallocate that to social programs. So how would you feel about something like that? And I guess I should say the social programs from at least what I understood would be something like, instead of police having being the people who respond to mental health calls or things like that, it would be perhaps a social worker or someone who's more trained to deal specifically with that issue. So how do you kind of. How would you feel about that, perhaps.

35:17 Well, I wasn't always the biggest fan of the reallocate the money to social workers because there was a. It never seemed like a really good idea to send a social worker in there to a person who has mental problems because they just might get violent. Most of them probably don't, but one of them could. And that just seemed a little too pie in the sky for my liking. You know, I wasn't. I was more of a, let's give them a little less money, train them better, and we take that money and we send it back to the government, you know, use that money to pay down a bill or something. We don't have to rock the boat. We can just. We can make this work. But why not? Because just to defund and to reallocate without the proper tools in place just seemed dangerous to me.

36:18 We're not quite at 40 minutes, but.

36:20 We'Re edging there, and I want to.

36:21 Ask a question that I get to ask because you are both UVA students.

36:27 And I want to know, you know.

36:29 You'Re both actually, this is your first.

36:30 Year at UVA for both of you, too, right? As a transfer student in the first.

36:32 Year, how have you confronted or, like.

36:37 Have you dealt with interactions with people.

36:42 Who have different views from you as a student?

36:45 And how have you maneuvered those. What have. What have those experiences been like for you?

36:51 Yeah. So I guess I'll go see first. I personally make it a goal of mine to seek out people and talk to them. I big proponent of deep conversations and hard conversations. So I think I have engaged with a lot of people that I disagree with. I'm living in a suite, and so I think at least once a week, I'll sit down in the middle of the lounge and just talk to someone about their life and their experiences and their beliefs just because it's something fun to do in the off time. So I think, like, in terms of how I kind of navigate that and maneuver that, I think the best way to do it, obviously, is diplomatically and respectfully. I think a lot of times, especially on college campuses, people are very quick. And I think particularly on UVa's campus, people are very quick to treat people in a negative way because of their viewpoints. And I think that that's really, really dangerous. And so I try to make space so that people can have conversations, and I try to have conversations where people feel like their views perhaps not respected, but are at least acknowledged and heard, and the people are respected. And I also try to push back both when I agree and disagree with people to try and get to the root of why they believe what they do, because I think that both a lack of discussion and a lack of self reflection is really kind of put us in a bad place, especially on college campuses at our age, in terms of what people are believing politically, and I think culturally as well.

38:34 It's very interesting that you actively and you seek out people to talk to who are different than you. I think that's just fascinating. I'm the complete opposite. I agree with a lot of what you said. So there's not a lot I can really contribute to the conversation on that one. But I just, I know that ideologically speaking, I am a really, I actually might be a super minority on grounds because I don't neatly fit within any of the, I don't fit in the liberal camp, but I also don't really fit in the conservative camp. And it's like, eh, I don't really fit here. And it's just, I just don't talk about politics with people. And I have friends who I know believe different things than I do. In a lot of cases, they are diametrically opposed to the same things that I 100% believe in. And I'm okay with that as long as we just never talk about it. So there will be, you know, I have friends, and that's always the way I've been. Because to me, discussing politics with people is like the plague. And just because we differ on that issue, but we're great in conversation on other issues and you're an emotionally supportive person, or we go way back. I don't see a need to taint a friendship with political discussion. And mainly because I've seen here how if you don't believe the status quo, the people will. Absolutely, they will go after you. Like the turning point, USA people or young America. I don't know, one of those organizations.

40:06 They wanted to, probably all of them, actually.

40:08 You know, they brought Kellyanne Conway, and then you have all these people putting up opposition posters. Right? I'm not a Kellyanne person. But I respect the right of these people. If they want to bring her down to talk, let them bring her down to talk. You don't have to get all aggressive and put a competing poster next to. So this is, it just seems college is not a safe place to express ideas unless you believe what everyone else believes, which takes away the experience of education.

40:39 That's the exact danger that I was alluding to, was the fact that people don't want to talk, because I think that's the only way anything happens. And I'm curious about this because you said that you don't enjoy talking it. And I definitely understand why people don't want to talk, but I'm interested to know how you kind of harmonize that, because you mentioned at the outset that Reagan had said that the people are the ones who drive the cars. And one of the, I guess, more fundamental beliefs of at least american democracy is that the people are able to drive the cars and make the decision collectively because they go out and convince each other of their viewpoints. So that's how, you know, people decide who to vote for and what policy things they're trying to vote for. So I'm curious how you kind of. How, how your hesitancy to have conversations kind of squares with your, with your more larger views of government and democracy, I guess.

41:42 Fair. Yes. In a perfect world, like, if we were looking, we were like, we had a democracy simulation and we had people here. Like, that would be how it works. We exchange thoughts on the marketplace of ideas, and we pick the best one and we vote on it. But it doesn't seem that we have a true marketplace of ideas. We have a censored version where the majority idea, or, I guess, the loudest voice, people gather around the loudest voice and the opposing side that isn't very popular or people don't like, well, then they just. They either self censor or they subject themselves to the consequences of whatever the loudest voice people want to do to them. And, yes, I think that in an ideal world, yes, we would be able to share and make these collective decisions, but because of how just tribal and aggressive politics have become in the past, you know, like ten years, I think. Is that a threat to our democratic republic? Yes, but I guess we're not really here to solve that problem. That's out of the scope of our conversation here. But you asked a very tough question. I'm not quite sure how to answer it, to be fair with you.

43:05 So you've both touched a little bit on this idea of feeling misunderstood by maybe your peers, especially in a college setting. I'm curious if you were to kind.

43:18 Of think about where you align yourself, even if it's not cleanly within a party or a box, if there are moments where you disagree with people that you typically kind of identify with, whether it's on political issues or just kind of values in general.

43:39 I think this is something that I encounter daily. I disagree. I tend to align myself more so with the democratic party. I have trouble saying that because I'm not a registered Democrat. I'm a registered independent. And of course, I would not feel uncomfortable voting for someone who is not a Democrat. But I just think that more often than not, my policy ideas align with, with those in the democratic party. And I think that a lot of times I do disagree with them and what they're doing to the same. Well, not to the same extent, but perhaps to a comparable extent in the way that I disagree with how I think a lot of Republicans may be doing things and running the democracy, or I guess the government rather. I don't know if it's, if it's a, a value thing. I don't know if I really have distinct values that are different from the democratic party, but absolutely in the way that policy happens and just in the cultural sense, I find myself getting very frustrated with how political leaders and even non political leaders who align themselves with the democratic party, I often find myself getting frustrated with them with how they navigate politics, how they navigate culture, and how they navigate where the two things collide. So can you give me examples? Perhaps not a specific example right now, but I think generally what I find myself most getting frustrated with is a lot of the political rhetoric between the two sides. It's that polarizing rhetoric where people are saying the good versus the bad or the superior versus the inferior. And I just don't think that's the right way to portray people who obviously have genuinely wealth, they have genuinely founded beliefs and what they think. So I think more often than not, it's political rhetoric. I don't think I could point to a specific, like, piece of political rhetoric or polarizing action right off the bat, but I think that's kind of where I lie.

46:07 I definitely understand that. You know, I don't really think I fit neatly within either major party. But if we did dig down deep and we kind of get into maybe feelings and ideas, I think I do lean more towards the Republican Party. But even then, my biggest complaint, I have two big complaints with that party. And the first one is they never seem to outline a realistic plan for governance. It's always these kind of smoke and mirrors issues that sound great, and they get the base route up, like, well, how are we going to solve this problem? We have to solve problems. We can't just lecture about them every four years. And the second one for me is the abortion issue. I've always been a pro choice person. I went to a catholic high school surrounded by pro life people, and then there was me, the pro choicer. I didn't say that part. And it's just the aggression that they fight for that one singular issue. It's very unappealing to me.

47:08 I think that's my example. You just really helped me out with that one because that would be a perfect example of political rhetoric that is very harmful in the left. Yeah, well, on both sides. Because I think obviously, this is one of the most fundamental questions both in politics, but also in someone's belief systems. And so I think that to superficially dispose of those types of beliefs is really, really disheartening to see because I think that a lot of people genuinely believe that the pro life movement, and a lot of people genuinely believe the pro choice movement. But neither side is really willing to get down to the nitty gritty about why they believe what they believe and then convince each other on that basis of their side. And I think that's, that's pretty frustrating.

48:05 I have kind of a, just a quick question just on this topic, which.

48:10 I don't remember what you have expressed when you signed up for this program, but does a role, does faith play.

48:18 A role in either of your lives? Is that something that is ever been important or is important to you? You mentioned catholic school. Was that. Well, I mean, for me, it's, I come from a very religious family of Baptists, but I don't really like that religion. I prefer Catholicism, but I'm not Catholic. I like to think of myself as a Christian, but in broader terms, I don't think it affects two strong, strongly how I conduct myself. I mean, that's just more of a personal journey that I find myself walking on. Would I like to be able to say, in five years, oh, yeah, I'm this religion and I'm happy and it gives me comfort. I would like to say that, but at this moment in time, I can't say that faith plays too much of a role in how I go through this game of life.

49:18 I think I'm similar. I went to a christian school from middle school and part of elementary school. And I think perhaps as a middle schooler. It shaped my ideas, but I don't think it has any effect on how I view the world today. I don't really think that faith plays a big role in my life in any event. So I don't think it has really any effect in my policy viewpoints or political ideology. I think really that just comes from who I genuinely think that I am as a person and then what I value because of that. So we're coming towards the end of our time. So before we ask a few concluding.

50:01 Questions, I want to know, is there anything even beyond the realm of kind of ideology and politics that you'd be curious to know about your partner? Well, what's it like being a first generation college student?

50:14 To be completely honest, I didn't know I was first generation until I got here, because my dad went to some college. I think he did one or two years. So it was always my understanding, like, oh, he went to college for some time. So I'm not a first generation college student. So I don't think it's really had a big impact on my life or how I view my education. And I don't come from, you know, a lower class family. You know, I think I'm squarely in the middle class. And I know, like, pretty much everyone in America is going to say the same thing, but I think I'm a pretty middle class family, so it never really played to be a role. Yeah, but, yeah, I don't think it played that big of a role in my life. Well, actually, I'll amend that. I think it's. I've never seen any of my family go to college, and they've worked jobs that don't require a college degree. My mom was a title researcher when we lived in Virginia, and my dad was a police officer. So those are pretty, you know, standard jobs for, I guess, like the working class. So I think perhaps it shaped the way that I was brought up, because I wasn't brought up by people who really focused too heavily or valued highly academics. And of course, my mom never put any pressure on me to do well in school. She wanted me to be happy, and if I was happy getting bad grades, then, you know, that's just what I wanted for my life, I guess. For me, luckily, I wasn't. And grades is something, or school is something that I really value and learning something that I really value. So I think it played a role in my life to the extent that my family didn't focus too heavily on academics and schooling. But that's kind of where, I guess, where it ends.

52:12 That is very, very interesting, because my family was the exact opposite. Multiple generations have gone to college. I had a great aunt. She went to Columbia University in New York, and that was something she talked about all the time, according to my mother and my parents, from the time I was four, always said, get good grades so you can get into a good college. My uncle said that, oh, if you just gotta. Yeah, be like your cousin the doctor. You can be like your cousin the doctor. You gotta go, and you have to do, and you have to. So I think for all my life, I've had the weight of get the best grades, so you can get into the best college, so you can get the best job. And I think that I'm fortunate that I don't do poorly at school, but that pressure sometimes it would be nice to have lived a bit of your lifestyle without the immense pressure from everyone.

53:12 To be the all star, I guess I should say. There wasn't no pressure, no external pressure. It was all internal. So I guess I kind of brought it on myself.

53:22 I had internal and external surprise.

53:24 I didn't crack somewhere. Right? Yeah, right. So, well, and I want to ask you, you've talked pretty extensively about kind.

53:34 Of views, and I'm curious to know.

53:36 If there's something about your partner's perspective that you can respect, even if you.

53:41 Maybe disagree with it, and if you could share maybe what that.

53:45 What that is for you. Yeah, I absolutely respect the limited government. I think it's not a bad policy framework. It's not one that I personally agree with. But if, I think if we lived in a government that was more limited than we are now, we probably wouldn't be. We wouldn't be that bad off. So I think I can respect the limited government position.

54:19 Well, I respect your compassionate view of government that it can do these things and that it should help people. You know, even though I might disagree with how it helps people, and I might, you know, poke holes in the bottom line, but I think at face value, it's something that's very noble. It's something that maybe we ought to strive towards, if not completely implement. Maybe in time, maybe, maybe 10, 20, 30 years from now, maybe we'll be at a place where we could do that. So I'll just have you read the last two questions. You guys can close on those two. So you can ask each other. Go for it.

54:59 Okay, I'll ask the first one. Is there anything that you learned about me that surprised you?

55:05 Oh, so that's your first one? Oh, that's my second. Yeah. So, anything about you. Okay, well, I. I was surprised, I think, by your open mindedness going into this. I knew I would be paired with someone who wasn't the same as me politically. And I'm like, that's good. That's great. That would be a very boring conversation if we just say, yeah, right on. But I was surprised because, typically, in my experience, when I do interact with people who don't think the same way I do, I get the side eye. I get the looks. I get the. But you were very honest and open, and I. You've accepted what I said, and you didn't try to convert me, which I really do appreciate.

55:59 Yeah. I don't know if there's anything that necessarily surprised me, because I was really kind of. I wasn't really sure what to expect in the first place. So it's hard for any of my expectations to really be broken because I didn't have any. I will say that I found it interesting just hearing your perspective about being, I guess, in the political minority, and that you don't fall into either of the two categories. And, of course, even if you did fall into one, the one that you would more likely fall into is the more ostracized one on the college campus. And so I thought it was interesting hearing that perspective, and I think that your insight did. Did surprise me just in that way. Oh, and then I guess I have the second question as well. And then, oh, it was I who you expected me to be.

56:52 Is that the same part of the question or the second? It's kind of related, yeah, second kind.

56:55 Of part of that closing question.

57:00 Well, I think based off of your bio, I think you kind of were not the minute details. I couldn't have picked all that up from a paragraph blur. But I think, for the most part, I think you were kind of what I prepared for. It went well, so it was a pleasant surprise. But I didn't come in here with low expectations for conversation.

57:27 Yeah, I think I was the same way. I feel like there was nothing that differed between you and your bio. So I guess the bio was really all that I had to frame my expectations. So I don't really think that it was really different. I think you were pretty spot on. So my last question for you is.

57:52 What are your kind of hopes, I.

57:54 Guess, for the rest of your time.

57:55 Here as a student, and maybe beyond.

57:57 That, personally, or maybe just more broadly.

58:01 In terms of the direction the country goes or where you hope to see your values manifested in different ways.

58:11 I guess, in my time here at uva, I'm hoping to learn as much as I can. I will be going to the Kellyanne Conway discussion tonight, so trying to take advantage of all the speakers that come here because. Because I don't really think that that's an opportunity I'll ever, ever have again. So I guess that's my hope over the next four years. And then, I guess in terms of government, over the next, I guess, long and in terms of longer or broader scale? Longer time scale, I would hope that our government becomes more both representative of what I think the real american people are and what the real american people believe, because I don't think that it truly is representative of just how similar everyone is. I think that there's a lot of humanity in America, and I don't think that that gets represented well, or if at all, in politics. So I'd hope that in the future, our politics become a little bit more tame, and I'd hope that government changes in the ways that it needs to, to accommodate for the values in society that I believe are changing as well.

59:28 Well, in the accelerated version of the time I have here at the University of Virginia, I hope to learn as much as I can. Maybe I'll get the bravery to go to a Kellyanne Conway event, but to really take advantage of all the things here and hopefully get some sense on what I'd like to do with my life. I hope to be able to say that I lived the type of life that helped people, you know, made people think, you know, that when I'm gone, people have nice things to say about me, but that's like, what, 70 years off, you know, you got time.