Jess Benston and Ana [No Name Given]

[00:09] JESS BENSTON: Hi, my name is Jess Benston. I'm 45, and today is October 10, 2022. We're in aloft. In Soho, in Brooklyn, in not Brooklyn, in downtown Manhattan. I'm here with Anna and we are new acquaintances.

[00:35] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: This is right. I'm Anna. I lie about my age, but I will tell you the truth. It's 38. Today's date is October 10, 2022. We are in Soho, like Jess said. Jess is my new friend. Let the games begin. Do you want me to. You can ask me. Yeah.

[00:59] JESS BENSTON: Okay. Can you tell me your abortion story?

[01:02] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yes. So I was 19 years old. I was about to go study abroad in. Just for the summer in Italy on this, like, program with a teacher who I really admired and this group of people who I got close with before the trip. And my boyfriend brought me into New York City. I grew up in Connecticut, and we, like, I guess, had a night out. We, you know, we were young. We rented a hotel in, like, midtown. Something gross, but affordable and so fun. And I don't even remember what we did the rest of the night. I don't remember even really having sex, I think. Not because I was intoxicated, although maybe I was, but mostly just because I don't remember the memory that well. Like, there. It's a. It's a lot in pieces. And I feel like up until that point, we had always used condoms, so I don't know why this time would have been different. Anyways, I go to Italy. I'm there. After a certain period of time, I don't get my period. I'm pretty regular. I start feeling nauseous, which was really the kicker. And I called my parents, and I was like, I think that I'm pregnant. And my parents. My mom was like, my mom's from the Philippines. And she's very funny and very foreign. And she was like, you're just tired. And I was like, no, no. I've been traveling the world my whole life. Cause half of our family's in the Philippines. Was like, I don't. This feels different, but okay. I had a lot of anxiety and was self medicating with anything I could get my hands on. I was eating aggressively. I was gaining weight. All the signs were there. But I was in denial because I was such a smart girl and I had always taken care of myself. I'm the youngest of three. I don't know. I was always self sufficient. I'm the third kid, so they're always like, that one will be fine. So I'm in Italy. I don't know what's going on with my body? I join a gym there where everyone at the gym is wearing jeans and a dress shirt. And I'm this young girl, you know, working so hard, trying to lose whatever this sudden weight gain is. And it's dramatic. It's like a tube of, you know, cushioning and all this stuff. And I feel sick, and I feel terrible. My mom comes to visit me, but it wasn't so much to see how I was. It was more like because she wanted to come to Italy. She grew up very catholic. I was sort of indoctrinated into that. Even though my father's jewish and I was raised by a yaya who also was, like, no sex before marriage. My first boyfriend, she used to chase us down the street and scream after the car, like, you are not an american girl. I was very treated very catholically, and I was very unsure what was going on. I thought maybe I was sick. I was hoping I was sick. My mom didn't acknowledge it. We didn't even talk about it. And I was just happy she was there, even though we weren't that close. And the trip ends. I'm pregnant. I'm fully pregnant. I remember my roommate was turkish, and her mom came, and she was sort of a mystical person. And I was like, is something happening to me? And her response was, I'll tell you right now, you will never be happy in your life. And I was like, damn. But, like, believed her because I was like, I'm not okay right now. But I just remember being like, she's right. I think she's wrong. I'm great. But at the time, in 19, feeling very vulnerable and hormonal. Okay. So then the trip ends. The summer is basically over. I tell my boyfriend. I call him, and I'm like, I don't think I'm okay. I've also never been to an ob gyn at this point. I've been sexually active since I was 14. I'm 19. I couldn't tell anybody I was sexually active, so I was just kind of sexually active. And I told my mom I wanted to see a gynecologist, which took so much courage when I got home. So I went, and she sent me to the one who, what's the word? Gave birth to me, helped deliver me. And she was this older chinese woman, and she was like, you're half asian. I remember your birth, whether or not that was true, whatever. You come from such a good family. And immediately I was like, I can't. Like, I felt judged. I felt scared. She gives me a pregnancy test. I've taken a pregnancy test. At this point, it's positive. I don't believe it. I take another one. It's positive again. I really can't believe it. I'm, like, squeezing my son. I'm so ashamed. All this stuff. I'm home. I'm so angry with everyone. I'm so hormonal. My boyfriend is in Seattle doing an internship for who knows what. Something that you do when you're a teenager. And he, I think, flew me there. Truly, this is where it gets hazy. Flew me there. I went and stayed with his very christian family, and they wouldn't let us sleep together. And they didn't really know why I was there. It was his aunt and uncle. So we were. I was, like, in a. I don't know, in just a separate room. He knew I was pregnant. And then we went and got an abortion. I don't know where we went. I don't know. Couldn't tell you where it was called. I just remember there were venetian blinds, and there was, like, light coming through the venetian blinds. And the woman spoke in hushed tones and seemed like she knew what she was doing and asked if I wanted to know the sex. And I don't remember responding, but somehow I knew it was a boy. And just, I think, like, at that point, my nervous system was just like, I'm going to numb you out so much that you don't take any of this in, because I truly don't remember. And then I know I was on anti. I know it was over. I know I was drowsy. I know I went back with his family, who were very sweet people, but also very christian. And, like, you know, you can't sleep together, even though, like, I'm already pregnant. And it just feels, again, super judgmental. And I remember I was put on antibiotics for a week, and she, the woman at the clinic, they're like, don't have sex for a week. And I was like, I never want to have sex again. But my boyfriend did. And he was extremely sweet and extremely bare for me. And any way that a 19 year old boy knows how to be. And he wanted to have sex, and I let him. And I remember fully dissociating and being like, sex is not a safe place. Sex is dangerous. Sex leads to shame and just kind of leaving the family dishonor, all these things. And I come back to New Haven, where I grew up. I think there's, like, a tribal parade happening outside, right?

[07:42] JESS BENSTON: It's indigenous day, right?

[07:45] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yes. Yes. It's a very important day, and I'm just, like, extremely volatile. I'm angry with everyone. I don't tell anyone. I don't tell my nana, who's sweet and much older filipino woman, but very strict. Like, I'm yelling at her. I wanted to go see finding Nemo. I don't know what was happening, but I carried the secret with me for a very long. I didn't tell either of my parents until my boyfriend. I broke up, I think about a year later, and I left school, and I came home unannounced, and I was completely. I couldn't sleep at college. I wasn't sleeping at all. I didn't know anything, you know, and I was just so overwhelmed. And it was. I went to Barnard Uptown, and it was an aerobics teacher. There was, like, a form when you took. You had to take Jim at Barnard, which is funny. And one of the questions was like, have you ever been pregnant? And I circled yes, thinking like, no one's gonna read this. And she called my phone, and she was like, hey, this is Ashley, or whatever her name was. I think it was Ashley. And I'm just calling. I'm an aerobics teacher. And I saw that you were pregnant. Are you still pregnant? And I was like, no. And it was the first time I sort of, like, acknowledged that this thing, it happened to me. And she was like, do you want to talk to somebody? And I was like, oh, I'm not. I'm not that. I'm so. I'm tough. I'm smart. I'm cool. I do drugs. You don't know me. And I did. And it sort of, like, that sort of opened up the discovery to what I had and the process of processing things. But I think, like, a really interesting thing is that, like, when I went home to tell my dad after my boy, I didn't even know what to do. But I went back to my parents home in New Haven, and my nana opened the door. I was probably very underweight. I was probably very strong out looking. I remember exactly what I was wearing. I remember the hoodie. I remember the jeans. I remember the tank top. And I went upstairs to see my dad, who had just gotten out of the shower and was in, like, tighty whities and a v neck. And I was burst into tears. My dad was like, what's going on? And I said I had an abortion. And he just opened his arms and didn't say anything and just, like, hugged me. And it was the perfect response. And I could not believe that like, I couldn't tell him. Like, I had whatever was in me, however I was programmed. It was like the most shameful thing that could have ever happened. And I didn't tell my mom, and I said, please don't tell mom. And he was like, I won't. And we never talked about it again, really, which is kind of crazy until the ro stuff came up recently. But even then, it's like a thing we can't really talk about. And then with my mom, she was driving me back to Barnard one year, and she was. I called her a bitch and she heard me, and she was like, you're too old to say things like that. And I was like, oh. And then I felt. Cause we were like. We were very fighty and crass and my family's got potty mouths, all of them. And she. We were in the car driving, and she was driving her, like, commercial white van she sells or sold wicker. I don't know. That's her thing. And she pulled. She was driving on the car, and she was telling me. She was really angry at me. I mean, I hurt her feelings legitimately. And she was like, you have never taken a fucking risk in your life. And then for whatever reason, my adolescent whatever was like, you know what? When you came to Italy, I was pregnant, and I had an abortion, and I never told you. And she pulls the car over, bursts into tears, and is like, what did I do that made you feel like you couldn't tell me? Which was not. My mom was not a warm, maternal mother, and that was the beginning of our relationship. And I cried very hard. And she said something crazy, like, you can sell dead fish, which was her way of being, like, you can do any. You're so wonderful. Like, I love you. I don't. Like, she's a mother who never says, I love you, but you feel it. And that was, like, the first time she had ever expressed kind of any real love towards me. And it's wild that something like, I just wasn't expecting those responses. And so then the healing sort of started, but it was really rough, like. And I don't want to take up all the time, but basically, like, yeah, like, I. I was really anxious. I felt. I didn't sleep in college for the first couple of semesters. I was sick all the time. They tried to put me on Zoloft. I didn't like it. I was put on Ambien. I didn't like it. I was just so anxious all the time. Like, there was something about that fundamental break and then a lot of other things that happened heretofore in my life that, you know, everyone survived, but it was tough, tough childhood stuff, but it was sort of like a, nothing happens to me. I'm always the one that. I'm the survivor. I'm like the tough little scrappy girl who, like, you know, and there was something about that. And also, I had no idea how many people have had abortions. There was no communication around it. Everyone did it in secret. And when I started kind of being less afraid to share that part of myself, everyone was like, I had one. Well, these women, these moms, these moms of my friends were like, I had two. I had one after this girl was born. And I was like, wait, what? Everybody has. Not everybody, but so many people. And I felt a little silly, but also, like, it's crazy that there's no communication around this and how much suffering comes from being so alone in it because of the stigma, because of the pro life, because of the religion, because of whatever it is. But it really, really derailed a lot of my, like, you know, formative years. I mean, in a way that I'm grateful for now, but it was not an. At the time, it was, I'm absolutely getting an abortion. Not thinking about it. I can't be pregnant. I shouldn't have done that. That was crazy. And there are many times, you know, I'm in my late thirties, I'm, like, thinking about starting a family, and I think about that, and I'm like, I didn't think twice because it was so stigmatized. I was just like, I can't get in trouble. And it was like, what if I had. I don't know. It's like something about the stigma prevented me from seeing any other option. Not that I regret my decision. I'm so lucky that I had that choice and those resources and those people around me. But I don't know. It's like, it's not just like, a flippant decision. Like, I think about. I'm a creative person. I think about, like, that child would be 19 years old. That child would be walking around like, would I have been able to go to college? I don't know. But he would have been loved. I don't know, but it's like, I don't not think about it. I don't think, oh, I just did that. Of course I did. It's like it's affected my whole life, and I'm talking about it now with a lot of courage, but it's taken me so long to get to this place, and, yeah, I think sharing stories about it is extremely important, and I feel really lucky to, like, be here with you, Jess. And, like, I don't know, I'm very. Thank you for listening, and, yeah, yeah.

[15:02] JESS BENSTON: There are so many points in your story that I just, like, resonated with me. Like, there are so many different things, like growing up with religion, and I was really struck by how your parents reaction was so different than what you were expecting.

[15:19] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah.

[15:21] JESS BENSTON: What was that like, for you to have these totally different.

[15:23] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: I could not believe it. I mean, I have extremely loving parents, and, like, just in a nutshell, like, you know, not to Tmi, but, like, I grew up in a house where, like, our house burned down. My middle brother had, you know, terminal cancer. He survived. My father had cancer. Then he was in a terrible accident. Then my aunt committed just, like, a lot of stuff happening to this very eccentric family. And I was always told I was lucky. And then suddenly I had done this thing, but I did it. It didn't happen to me. I wasn't just, like, I did it. Like, I made a mistake, and it's not a small one. And when my dad just so openly, unconditionally, without any questions, I just remember him. He was still a little, like, wet from the shower and just, like, hugged me, and I was like, oh. And I just collapsed and was so, so shocked that. I mean, I'm sure he knows lots of women who have had abortions. He's an endocrinologist. But I just didn't know, like, I was so alone in that experience. And then to have my dad and my mom, who has no role model for maternity, was very hands off. I was completely raised by another woman, you know, like, she got it. She just got it.

[16:39] JESS BENSTON: She got it.

[16:40] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: She got it. I want to ask you about you, though, you know, and then we can maybe go back and forth, but tell me about your abortion story.

[16:48] JESS BENSTON: Okay. Well, so I was 32. I was in the middle of grad school. Like, literally, like, it was right at the point where I was like, there's no way I could have a child, and this would not completely derail me and, like, take me out, like, completely just throw me off track. Like, it's the worst possible timing ever. Yeah. And, yeah. So I was 32. I'd been married for, oh, maybe about three or four years, I guess, with a long term partner who I'm still with. And I was. I had been taking birth control pills, but then I stopped, and because I couldn't get an appointment with my Ob Gyn, and I just got really annoyed with the process and was like, it'll be fine. I'm sure. I probably can't even get pregnant anyway. I don't know why I didn't believe in science, but this definitely reaffirmed my belief in science. And I just remember, like, it was. I think it happened on spring break. Hell, yeah. And finding out, like, around early May, towards the end of school, when I was just, like, sitting in class and was, like, watching someone or smelling someone open a tuna fish sandwich and feeling like I was gonna die. And then my partner had pointed out, like, hey, why are you throwing up in the morning? And I was like, oh, I think it's just something I ate. Like, I was really in denial, too. So then I took a bunch of pregnancy tests, including the ones that say, actually pregnant or not pregnant. So it was like, there's no misreading this. I was still. But I was still in shock. I'd never wanted to have a child, and I was always like, well, if it happens, I'll have an abortion. But I just never thought I'd be in the position to have an abortion. I didn't think I would ever be pregnant, but obviously I was. And it was around the time of our wedding anniversary as well, and we'd already planned to go to Niagara Falls. And when I told my partner, I remember he was really. I'd called him on the phone just to tell him, like, hey, come straight home from work. I want to tell you this. I want to tell you something. And he was running through all the possible scenarios of, like, what could possibly be wrong while you're on the phone. And I was just like, no, no, just come home. Just come home. I'll tell you. And then I remember he was pretty mad. Like, how could this happen? You're on the pill. And I remember saying, like, well, I forgot. And I didn't forget. I just stopped doing it, which I can own now, but at the time, I couldn't.

[20:00] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: I think there's a lot of reasons to stop taking birth control. So I don't. To me, I'd be like, I get it.

[20:06] JESS BENSTON: But, yeah, but, yeah, mine was. Cause I was like, I can't possibly fit in this appointment in the middle of, you know, my internship and all my classes. So, yeah, so I was pregnant. And I remember realizing it when they had a few weeks of school left for that semester, being like, this is so weird. This thing is happening to me, and it feels like it's taking over my body, and I sort of can't tell anyone, because then I have to admit to something. And we went to Niagara Falls. We did go on that trip. I remember him just, like, marching up and down, like, wanting to hike everywhere, and I'm just like, I just want to lay somewhere and drink a million v eight s. Do you remember what you craved?

[21:04] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah. Because I was in italy, and there was a sandwich shop, and they made these paninis that were objectively huge. And I could eat, like, four of them. And, like, even the people who worked there were, like, this little girl just eats full of sandwiches every day, and I would eat them ashamed, like, in the corner of, like, a portico in this, like, old town. And because I didn't want my friends to know that I was, like, so ravenous, I felt gross. Do you remember how. Okay, wait, keep going, keep going.

[21:34] JESS BENSTON: Yeah, I remember feeling, like, really gross. I remember, like, buying all these sleeves of saltines and, like, bringing them to me to my internship, and being like. I also felt like, I have to hide. This is gross, because I want to eat the whole sleeve of saltine and then going and having the abortion. It was the planned parenthood in Manhattan, so, like, pretty close to here.

[22:02] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Margaret Sangere. Yeah. Oh, I know her.

[22:06] JESS BENSTON: Yes. We can acknowledge that's very problematic. But I was very happy to be at that center at that time. I feel like I remember a lot of sort of inconsequential details about the day of getting the abortion, too. Like, I remember I was reading a tree grows in Brooklyn.

[22:27] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Amazing.

[22:33] JESS BENSTON: I remember, like, there was a girl who. Or there was a person who was in the waiting room with all of us when we were all, like, in our sad little cloaks of. What are they called again?

[22:48] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: I don't know. Doctor. Doctor.

[22:50] JESS BENSTON: Dressed medical dresses.

[22:52] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Gowns. Gowns.

[22:53] JESS BENSTON: Gowns.

[22:54] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: They call those gowns.

[22:55] JESS BENSTON: Not remembering the important parts. Okay. Remember wearing the gowns, and she was talking on the phone and telling the person on the other line that she was with a bunch of really boring people at the planned parenthood, being like, okay, that's fair. But, like, yeah, you didn't even ask me anything, right?

[23:16] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: I could be so fun.

[23:20] JESS BENSTON: And then. Yeah. So then it happened, and I remember just being, like, really relieved. And the weirdest thing that I remember feeling is, like, really patriotic, which is a feeling I've never felt in my whole life. Just being like, I'm so glad this was not a pain in the ass, that it was legal, that it was easy, that I could access it, that my health insurance covered it, that no one was making me prove. Because objectively, I guess I could have continued the pregnancy. Sure, I could have, like, had a kid, raised a kid, but that's not what I wanted to do. And I just felt so relieved that I could choose myself.

[24:05] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: It's huge. It's really huge. I just got chills. Do you remember how far along you were?

[24:11] JESS BENSTON: About nine weeks, I think.

[24:13] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: I think I was twelve. But it is like, at any stage. At any stage, there's something in there and it needs things. And I feel like it's like, I don't know. When you said your health insurance covered it, I was like, I remember we needed cash for some reason, and I didn't have any cash. And my boyfriend was like, I'm gonna pay for it because you're going through it. And he got cash. And, like, the cash aspect of it was like, so I don't know, I felt like we were in some sort of, like, I don't know, heist movie where it was like, first we get the cash, then we get the turkey baster, then you close your eyes and we wake up and it's all over. But it didn't go away. Like, it. I mean, I love to hear that you felt so relieved and that it was so, like, that choice is so powerful. I really struggle. Like, I. Because I'm very. I've always imagined having kids and that was what it. I don't know, it was just like, this is not, you know, when I, being from a catholic background, I just, and I don't know if you relate to this. You mentioned religion.

[25:12] JESS BENSTON: Mm hmm.

[25:13] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Like, when I got my period, I was on a field trip back from medieval times. I was gonna kiss this boy in the bathroom, will Madoux, who was the other half asian kid in my class, we were like, ready. And I went to the bathroom and I thought I shit my pants. And I was like, I can't kiss him. I've, like, pooped myself. Like, I have no idea. And I went home and I told my parents. They were like, on the phone and writing things. And I was like, I pooped myself today after I ate chicken with my hands at medieval times. And then my dad wrote on a post it, you got your period. And I just remember being like, what? Like, there's no just the communication around women's health in general. It's like, how is that possible? I went to, like, a, I went to public school, but it was a good public school I went to. How are they not? I don't know. There's just like, I felt. So everything was this, like, huge revelation. Like, it was just not anything that you expected. It's, like, not movies. It's nothing. Stories. It's not. I don't know. So I just feel like. Yeah. And then. So since that you're with the same partner I am. Are you back on birth control?

[26:17] JESS BENSTON: Yes.

[26:18] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah.

[26:18] JESS BENSTON: Yes.

[26:18] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah.

[26:19] JESS BENSTON: Yes. I got an IUD, though.

[26:21] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: I've never. I tried birth control after getting pregnant, and it made me so angry that I thought I was off it. So then I've only been in, like, long term relationships, but, yeah, it was. I don't like. I don't like birth control. It makes me not feel good. And then I was like, well, how am I supposed to have sex if I'm verbally abusing everyone near me inside and externally? Yeah. Do you ever. Do you think about it a lot about. About, like, having your abortion or.

[26:54] JESS BENSTON: I do, but I think about it in terms of, like, I was thinking about that secrecy that you talked about before and about how finding out after you tell someone that, oh, all these people have had them. And I remember having a really powerful experience maybe about five years after I had my abortion at a party and just talking to some people about their experiences, and I remember us being a little lit and just right, and just probably being a little loud about it and. But still feeling like there's this, like, layer of judgment. Like, people want you to, like, treat it like it's really sacred and that you have to talk about it in a certain way. And, like, to me, I just felt like it was a relief, and I didn't feel bad about it at all. Yeah.

[27:52] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: No, I. My best friend from high school, just a lot of people I know who are close to me had such a different experience, and even that was so helpful because I was like, it's my cat. It's Catholic. It's just like. And I don't. I don't feel Catholic. I'm not. Like, I was born in sin and that naked hot man is my maker. Like, I don't know, but it's in me. Like, I felt like I. When you say that, it's not. It doesn't have to be sacred. I. It doesn't, but I was like, if I'm gonna do this, I should suffer for it. Like, you know? And I don't feel that way anymore, but I did for so long, and that's why religion feels. I don't know, teach its own, but, yeah, it just. Filipinos are very catholic. Yeah, it was very tricky. I don't know. What else can I ask you?

[28:43] JESS BENSTON: Well, I grew up Catholic, too. Oh, okay.

[28:45] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Where did you grow up?

[28:46] JESS BENSTON: A bunch of small towns, like, in the south.

[28:49] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Oh, in the south?

[28:50] JESS BENSTON: In the south. For a little bit in New Jersey, you know, Maryland, South Carolina.

[28:56] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Why did you move so much?

[28:57] JESS BENSTON: My dad had a job that required him to move. He wasn't in the armed forces.

[29:02] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah. I was. Like. He was military. Oh, no, he wasn't.

[29:03] JESS BENSTON: He was not. So we moved a lot. Right. But the catholic thing, like, I feel like I. That's a very strong presence in my life, too. I'm not religious.

[29:15] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah. I like story. I don't live by it. Yeah.

[29:20] JESS BENSTON: But I feel like there's something about the. Like, there's a really strong sense of you have to suffer and, like. Yeah, there's really something about, like, the consequences and, like, there's something about that religion about, like, you have to be responsible for things, and there's consequences, and so, I don't know. I sort of felt like, did I get away with this?

[29:45] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah, babe. Yeah. Because, you know, USA, baby. I mean, I don't know. New York. Not USA anymore. Yeah.

[29:59] JESS BENSTON: How do you feel about the restrictions now and what that means for people?

[30:05] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: I mean, when I found out I was visiting my boyfriend, well, I was in London shooting a movie, and I just remember being in a terrible mood that day, but I couldn't. Like, I couldn't figure. I was just like, it's news, and it's terrible, but they'll figure it out. Like, you know, it's gonna figure it. This is too crazy to be real.

[30:25] JESS BENSTON: Yeah.

[30:25] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: I was in a bad mood when they finally announced it. Whenever that was over, the summer, I was in St. Louis, and I just. I was, like, at the. It's a great museum in St. Louis with a bunch of slides. Oh, I wish I could say it. I don't remember the name, but I just burst into tears. Like, whatever it was, I just. It just hurt so badly. And I know I'm safe, and I know I'm lucky, but I'm in Missouri, which will lose the right to choose. And I happened, for whatever reason, to be right near the planned parenthood, and I just went there, and I was surrounded by like minded people just screaming and crying, and it was really cathartic and also just, like, what world is this? Like, we are not second class citizens. We are not. We are. I don't know. It was just. It felt so barbaric and so personal and so, like, I don't know when I see, little girls, I feel like such. Just got. Yeah. Just like, I feel so sad that this. This is a world that's actually even somewhat real. I don't know. It's just like, this is not kindness. This is not good. This is just hurtful and sexist and painful. I don't know. I mean, did you have a visceral.

[31:39] JESS BENSTON: Yes. I felt like my veins were gonna pop out of my skin. I was so angry.

[31:46] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Rage.

[31:47] JESS BENSTON: Rage?

[31:48] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah, like, for my rap gift for when I left the movie, I gave everybody a hat that says 1973, which is, like, raises money for narrow. And I was like. They were all like, okay, it's a little political. And I was like, no, it's not. It's not political. It's mankind. It's womankind. It's, you know, whatever you want to call it. I don't know.

[32:07] JESS BENSTON: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's not. It's not political, but it is. But then it's like, it's not. It's just this human thing of, like, please don't make people do things that they don't want to do for decades of their life because they did something.

[32:22] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: That they made a human error.

[32:26] JESS BENSTON: Yeah.

[32:27] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: I don't know. It's like, people make human errors all the time, and we're just sort of like, it's fine that he slapped that guy in the face on national television, you know? It's like, no, whatever it is. Yeah. What was I gonna ask you? Oh, when you were going to the planned parenthood, were there people outside protesting?

[32:47] JESS BENSTON: There weren't? No.

[32:48] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Huh?

[32:49] JESS BENSTON: Were there people protesting when you went?

[32:50] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah. And I just remember being like, oh, you're mentally ill, and, like, maybe that's not a nice thing to think, but I was just like, you have lost sight of humanity. Like, I know it's a religious thing, and I want to respect that because that is how I was raised and how I want to be. But, like, you're hateful. Like, it seems hateful to me. And I don't know who's right or who's wrong, but I know that, like, people are allowed to live how they want to live, for better or worse. I don't know. I just. It feels very personal, like, the sort of canceling of a woman's right to choose. It's like. It's common. It's absurd.

[33:32] JESS BENSTON: It is.

[33:32] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah.

[33:37] JESS BENSTON: Yeah. I'm at a loss for words, even when I try to think about, like, where to go with that. I wanted to ask you one more thing about your restraints, too. You mentioned that at some point, you stopped feeling so bad. And I was wondering what that was like.

[34:01] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: I think. I'm trying to think about it. I mean, I felt. I think it was into therapy many years and sort of being like, I made a mistake. I didn't do anything. I didn't deserve that. I, you know, my boy, I was. I mean, I broke up with my boyfriend because I couldn't be around him because it just represents so much grief of, like, who I was before and who I was after and the secrecy. And I think it was the combination of my parents having this information and me just being like, whatever you expected this world was gonna be, it's not. And you're a part of that, and we're gonna figure out how to feel okay in that. And there was something there that shifted. And I had really. And I do. They're still my best friends from college. I had really great friends who kind of, like, championed us being kind of coming into our own. And they really held that for me. So. Yeah. Have you seen Allison Leiby show?

[35:16] JESS BENSTON: No.

[35:16] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: She's amazing. And she's sort of. And it's not, you know, everybody's is so different, but she. Yeah, it's worth seeing. I'll say that. I thought it was great.

[35:25] JESS BENSTON: I appreciate the recognition.

[35:26] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[35:30] JESS BENSTON: As we're coming towards the end of our time, I wonder, you know, what is something that you wish people knew about the experience of having an abortion?

[35:39] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: For me, I think the big one was so many women have been through this and we are all out there, and I'm sure painful. Not painful. Sacred. Not sacred. Would talk to anybody going through, like, you don't have to do this alone. And that. Yeah. To me, that was the biggest reveal. It was like, oh, so many people have been down this road. And I. I thought it was just me, that I was the only bad one. And. Yeah. So that's my. I think things like, when I heard about this project, I was like, I just think it's important to have this archive, to have this, you know, ability to hear a bunch of different sorts. Of all kinds. What about you?

[36:26] JESS BENSTON: Absolutely.

[36:27] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Absolutely.

[36:28] JESS BENSTON: I totally hear all of that. Well, for me, I felt like it was important to tell my story because I feel like mine is, you know, I was, like, pretty well into adulthood. Yeah.

[36:40] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: And married.

[36:41] JESS BENSTON: And married.

[36:41] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah. People are like, well, you're married. You have everything. That's everything.

[36:46] JESS BENSTON: Yeah. And also, as a non binary person, like, I felt like it was. It's important to, like, tell those stories too.

[36:55] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yes.

[36:58] JESS BENSTON: But I think that the thing that, to me, feels really important for people to be aware of if they haven't had abortions is just that you to, like, leave space for people to talk about their abortions and don't expect it to be in a certain way. Don't couch it in a. Well, I would never have one, but because that's not helpful.

[37:24] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Isolating.

[37:25] JESS BENSTON: It's othering. Yeah. And to just. I don't know, I think. Just think back to that party where I felt like people were trying to, like, shush us about, you know, having our experiences and, like, this isn't an inappropriate topic.

[37:40] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah.

[37:41] JESS BENSTON: But, like, it absolutely is. You know, like, I would love to see in the future, like, people just, like, talking casually on the subway about. I know, like, their experiences and, like, their end of hushed tones and secrecy.

[37:58] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: I'm not ashamed of. I completely agree. I love that. Yeah. Anytime anyone sort of brings it up, even just, like, you know, just, like, terse, like, my abobo or whatever it is, it's just like, I'm gonna give you a hug. You are not alone. Whatever it is to you, I feel like I love you. I just do. It is what it is for, you know, it's just. It's a thing that happened. It's a. Yeah.

[38:24] JESS BENSTON: Yeah. I feel like it's a thing that made me more human.

[38:27] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Me too. For sure. Yeah. I definitely think it's a thing that made me more human. This was really nice.

[38:37] JESS BENSTON: Yes. I'm so glad we got to talk.

[38:38] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yeah. Thank you.

[38:40] JESS BENSTON: Thank you, too.

[38:43] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: I'm gonna give you a hug. Oh, thank you for sharing, too.

[38:50] JESS BENSTON: Great.

[38:50] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Yay. We did it. You did. What does your partner do?

[39:01] JESS BENSTON: Can we have six more?

[39:03] ANNA [NO NAME GIVEN]: Tell me everything.