Jesse Maroney and Amin Eshaiker

00:01 I say Bismillah, which is Arabic for it with the name of God, the most beneficent the most merciful Bismillah Rahman. Rahim. My name is Amina Shaker. I am 37 years, old. Today is Monday, April 26th, 2021 and I'm located here in beautiful, Anaheim, California sitting in our office for link outside, which is our nonprofit prison Outreach organization, and I am going to be recording my colleague. My friend, my Confidant, Jesse Maroney. Who works with me, here at link outside.

00:42 Bismillah alhamdulillah, what's a lot of us Allama last year in number? How many miles did he was happy with someone that means in terms? In Arabic for the Islamic faith. In the name of God, all praise due to God. And we wish peace and blessings upon the prophet Muhammad and his companions, his followers and all the other prophets. My name is Jesse Maroney and I am 37 years of age. Today's date is Monday April 26th, 2021 and we are located in Anaheim, California in the building which basically is our parent organization.

01:20 And the person who is going to be interviewing me today, or that we were recording with is my dear friend. I mean, the Shaker he is. My friend is also to the one who introduced me into link outside, which is a Muslim prison Outreach organization, which I and the program coordinator of, and we've been on this really amazing journey together. So we are here today. I mean, we are and I first met you six. I guess about six years ago, 2015, 2014. And you know, it's been an amazing journey and went out why I keep thinking is that so many things happened in your life for you to come to that point for you to come all the way to the right? Cuz really there's no reason for us to you and cross paths. I mean, you were kidding Connecticut, different lifestyle here on Suburban, Southern, California, so,

02:16 I never had a chance to see you prior or you going to get to meet you prior to that. So I'm really curious, you know, learn a little bit more about kind of the life trajectory of our life events that, you know, really shaped who you were in the direction in your life. So I'm taking it back to Childhood. So basically, like from what when you were born to maybe an adolescent, can you think of like a defining moment that really shaped? You know, that maybe the beginning years of your life or its best moments. I think, if the first to start that was born in November 18th 1983, which was a very interesting time frame in history, right? So, the 80s babies, they call him where

03:09 Lot of things are changing specially when it came to, if I start thinking a little bit, you know, I guess one of the first defining moments, if I had to take a look at my life, just generals me being born. But me, being born into a biracial family, and my mother was born in Connecticut, Naugatuck, Connecticut, and I live there pretty much, you know, most of her life before she was born there, and she lived there grew up there and resided in Connecticut. And my father was born in North Carolina, Greenville, North Carolina, back in 1945 or 1952 father's born in 1945. So he's born in the area where there was still was separation of blacks and whites in certain areas. So, you know, they could only go to a certain water fountains. That's. It was really quite a real reality. There is actually a lot of things that experience. So it just I kind of was born into that hole.

04:06 Interesting. Mesh, I guess you would say the other use that word because this kind of really was defined it for me because my father still held a lot of some of that experience with him, even though he was with my mother and trying to fight that. So I would say just that was really

04:27 It's refreshing 80s because that was supposed to be in the city of Danbury, Connecticut where I was born. This was kind of going against the trend has just kind of really going against the norm and in many areas and I was, you know, the going against the norm baby, right? So, I had a lot of things that I experienced through that, you know, so her side pretty, we do solid white Caucasian in your father's eyes that black African-American from the south. Just like they were born in the city weather for the South so totally different mindset, you know, why people going to kill you, check the mindset kind of going against the trend. It's us against the world a little bit, you know.

05:16 So yeah, just totally different than mine. And my mom's side was very

05:22 I don't want to say that you know, that they were racist at the really, but just this once knew this was something very revolutionary for the family. You know, this was something very against, you know, what they have seen and what they've experienced and licking it really. I don't think I understand why and also too. Just in general that it was a going to be a very rough decision overall for my mom. So she with her, raising me and Me growing up and do such things down. So that was

05:54 Very profound. So I think I would be the defining, you know, more which is my birth just in general cuz it was a pretty pretty complex. You know, there's a lot of different things that went on from there, but I guess we can go more into that into the interview later on. Yeah, so, you know, you're, you're born into that into that Dynamic and now you're going to school. Your ear problem is probably going to be that late 80s, early 90s Elementary School, Middle School.

06:24 What we know, what was the biggest biggest influence in your life at that? At that time, that, that I guess going to shape you at that, that, that point in time, at that time was first, my father. My father was actually the biggest influence. My father worked quite a bit. So he had a small business with doing the trash collecting or just get a actually, you had one of the first routes in Danbury Connecticut before big trash companies really came out and all that. He had a really huge pretty successful business for the successful small-business. So he did that, he did us to clean up. She did, you know, like landscaping and things of that nature had a full-time job. That was two things that he bounced out. So he worked quite a bit. So seeing dad was always like an experience because Dad would be, you know, maybe the weekend, we get a Sunday that we could go out for maybe three or four hours.

07:24 And do things. And just overall, my dad was a very muscular big man, you know, a very loud very, you know, kind of in a standout, you know, not so much that he was really trying to be just as overall his demeanor and just the way that he carried himself over all that. He was a very manly man. So I always kind of was attracted to that you when I was a kid, he would go out and mow the lawn. I would jump on his back and you carry me on his back has you know the whole time but he was mowing the lawn. So, you know, that was the big first big influence, you know, it's just that just ranks the the the confidence the courage, you know, those things those things really attracted. Me. That's my father quite a bit. I thought that was really amazing. So I've been getting kind of mold myself a little bit behind some of that and that was but and then also to just in general, my father's side of the family began to be a very influential because I had met my mom's side, quite quite a bit.

08:24 You know, just going back and forth is Naugatuck, Connecticut. We live in Danbury. So don't like 30 minutes away. Where my father's side of the family was in North Carolina and I didn't really actually meet them to us about. I think 7 years old. I didn't meet him until that because you know, there was a lot of tension, you know, my father had, you know, begin to be with a white woman now. Now, you know, this is my uncle was really upset. There's light, like a lot of different factors that kind of probably push my father not to bring me in the beginning. But then when I went down to North Carolina that was like a whole amazing experience for me, it was like, you know, going into like paradise almost here because he was up there was a farm there, you know, my father. My father is my father's father. My grandfather owned 100, Acre estate of land. And so there was like pigs there was chickens. There was a unicorn that was tobacco. Tobacco was the main thing. There's all this late.

09:24 And in all this different culture that I had never seen before and you know, we're eating all these beautiful sweet pies and these different types of fatty foods that I had never seen. Right? So it was like this whole thing and it was just a different way of people interacting with people wearing things on my mom's side, where maybe a little bit more formal, but it was this was a lot of informal, you know, like I had never experienced like people, you know, just inviting you over to the house, not really knowing you to a cookout and no, I never liked had a grape soda with a honey bun behind it that, you know, you just like experiencing, you know, the all these things, these different cheeses. And, you know, these different type of people and people talk differently and they get dirty. You don't work really hard and then they have a lot of fun, you know, so just as a kid, you know, and

10:18 It was a, it was a great stretch of being out there, being on a machine being on a tractor, you know, this this this kind of started to sway me to that so that kind of mentality and then, you know, it then it was also too. If I had to probably be really honest, it was

10:32 Really cool to kind of be different, right? Like I got half black like it was so many people in my school at that point when I was going to Sweet, have a mom and dad had moved into a small town called Bethel. And it wasn't that many. There was only maybe like three black kids. Maybe. Yeah. I think it's a time. I'll let you know and I was, you know, that the house right? The three and a half. So it was interesting, always kind of being, you know, the difference and, you know, my dad had other children before me from another marriage, so then being

11:04 Most of them. After my father used to be where make sure we were closed. I can even drop me off over there to the, you know, maybe stop by then, or we'll go different places together, right? At it was a different experience to a lot of my but I haven't experienced from going to school. So like I had different sneaker Styles. I had different things because they were, you know, up on the latest trends they were up on these latest things and, you know, into the Hip Hop course, I cross Colours and like, Boss jeans because I never seen some of these things and some begin to, you know, where some of these different things. And it was just totally different. So that was, that was kind of like influential person to fought my father and then from my father branched out into just my old father's, actual outside of his family. Coz I was like, you know, and I had if I had to judge it was probably because it was more the reason why is more impactful because it was we went maybe once a summer twice a year to North Carolina, then we are going to regular we go in the summer time for a little while.

12:04 And that we go at Christmas time. If you don't chew times, it's always very impactful. Like, we had this amazing time fun to Sanaya and then boom them back into the regular flow of things up here in the shop in, Connecticut.

12:18 Gotcha. Now you're moving into in your high school years and you know, a lot of times that helps, you know, shaped are our future at that point. So, can you think of a specific?

12:35 Event or specific, maybe decision that you made in, in that year in those in those years, you know, teenagers high school years that had the biggest impact into your life.

12:50 I think it before that but she wanted one, who are poor thing was before that? Like, like, I just kind of was mentioning how I kind of like begin to idolize like my father's side of the family. And one pretty, impactful person was my uncle, and his name was Seymour. And so he's very impactful just because of he had a very again, very courageous very outstanding presents, but also to use a business guy. So one of the things that he did do he did did farming, buddy else to do real estate. And unfortunately, one of the things that you did very well was a high-level drug dealing and backed, I didn't really become real to me or seeing to me until actually his wife when my aunt was murdered. And so that was really pivotal because that changed everything. And then as I began to get a little bit older, to begin to understand kind of what was going on and what led to that whole process now. So you got indicted by the feds.

13:50 That was a whole another situation as like a Kingpin buddy. Actually beat. It said it was a lot of things that began to kind of shape my mind. And to me going into the high school and some of the actions that I took later on in life, you know, obviously nothing that was really influential, be honest with you was hip hop, The Hip Hop music and culture that began to be circulating around and went from, you know, like a Melle. Mel, Laura like a, you know, Big Daddy Kane. And I we start to get into gangster rap and I listen to a lot of that. Now, it's actually was like my guidance and, you know, even though you have my father was a certain way, but my uncle was a certain way that kind of match that. Right? And so and then, you know, then also to just in general, my dad would tell me a lot of different stories just about in battling and going through different things. When he was a kid with with, with white people just in general, like, you know, he witnessed some pretty wild things of another try to hang a couple of his friends.

14:50 He witnessed these things and he actually had to shoot at a couple people. He was there would like the only family that was really kind of go against a lot of the different, you know, white supremacy influence that was in the area and it was a lot of backlash from that you don't like, but Michael's got beat up by the stuff happen. So anyways, there was like this rebellious or just wanted to kind of like be like rebellious like that. Right? Like my father was kind of like Against All Odds, right into my uncle took that to a different route where he obviously was like, okay, you know, Against All Odds, but we're all still going to you know, you make some of this money this different ways and I don't think they really saw how is going to be affecting their Community because it devastated it but this began to influence me. Now going into high school. Now, we're getting this to like 1992-1993. So you're talkin about, you know, big, you know, ready to die. Now you're talkin about Wu-Tang, you know, these are actually like pencil points in life. It's sad to say, but these are like big, you know, releases, you know, Wu-Tang 36.

15:50 Chambers, you know the Tupac you do. Now it's beginning to mow the lines of a lot of people, you know, and then going into high school. She was talking about like 1996, you know, it's just like, you know, life after death going into that, either going into this error type or that that time frame. And so, I think just in general,

16:10 Hop siwas, family influence kind of what was going on with the culture of the hip-hop culture and really begin to influence me, quite heavily to the point where then when I begin to get introduced to certain things and it began to kind of help me make certain decisions, you know, so when I first got introduced the marijuana, my first $10 bag of marijuana, you know, what? After we had smoke some and I was just like going on early into like, like 11, 12 years old right to 12.

16:46 It had change my mind to. Okay, cool. We're getting high. This is kind of cool. I'm a little dizzy and then, you know, the kids and mentions to me, one of my friends. He's actually passed away and now we're overdose, but he mentioned, hey man, you know, this is like the size of two of the $10 bags over here and that change into a whole different thing of. Okay. Now, we can sell this and I began to be a whole different, you know, process of just thinking. Just so, you know, just how I analyze that whole situation just went from having fun to now, okay, now we can monetize this and make this into something different.

17:21 High school. That's, that's the, you know, the 13th. I think it was. So I had already start doing that in Middle School, selling little bags of weeds or charge before that and then high school was with, really, the moment. Like that's when the momentum started with that because, you know, now I'm introduced from a small town of Bethel, right? With access to Danbury, which is a city cuz of my family lives there, but now, I'm actually go to a technical school because I was having so much problems. Actually, in that smaller school with fights being expelled. There's a lot of things different that happen just because of a lot of the tension that went on a guy, had continuous times of just being called, you know, but he's coming in Niger, sand Niger, sometimes cuz my color there a lot of things happened quite a bit and I would find myself in these predicaments all the time and giving to those fights, you know, sometimes I instigated some of them cuz I want to get back but I will find myself in these situations quite a bit. And so then,

18:21 Went into the pivotal change was obviously. Well, there's just one moment, you know, it sucks like it clicked in like a and all that, but

18:31 I would say it's a, you know.

18:34 Combination of those years. But then making the shift into the different school was really big. That was the big. That was one of the big ones.

18:46 I know a lot of times it from that point until 2 now and it's up to you how much you wanted it? You want to share but you know what to tell send a little bit about the start of the your next Journey that you know, I brought you to eventually to come out here for that. So, okay. So we're going to high school high schools in New Experience. Right now. There's a ton of different kids. There's Guatemalans. There's Mexicans just put a Rican just relax. There's all different spectrums of people, you know, most of the most of the school is really heavily color. I guess you would say that work properly. That's a note to tell you from experience and not only that, it's from different regions of Connecticut. It's not only from Danbury, but you have, like, Waterbury people. You have different people from all over the place. So,

19:44 And also to the class is there for me, were very easy know, I'm not super intelligent, but just enough that it just was pretty simple and I was able to get by there easily without doing minimal effort. So it look at that me to

20:02 Exploring everything obviously, you know, you're in high school, you start trying to talk to women and things of that nature, but I'll see you. Then. You meet a bunch of different friends and people that, you know, especially at that time, you know, like I said, again, the hip-hop culture, one of the things was being flamboyant, being, you know, being dressed really well, being me, know, you got the Big Chain on the oh, so you want to do all these different things. You start seeing all these different places, especially back, then love you guys are coming from the inner city and he's lady to come from the inner city to address certain way. You know, they take on the dresser like the newest hip hop artist or, you know, singer or whatever Alia or Jennifer Lopez, right? I was one of the big things at the time so you can start to meet this, right? And then you said to me that, you know, races in the issue no more here. This is not liking. It's not like, you know, nobody likes a Niger or you like to stand out the shoes. It's actually one of the crowd. And so, it's, it's and you can kind of phone is sync with a lot of people because this in a moto Multicultural, there's different culture.

21:02 Different foods, you know, it's it's really really amazing. Right? So but also to one thing that came in with that was

21:10 Introduction of a high amount of drugs because all these kids were in different places. And unfortunately, a lot of the different circumstances that they were in a lot of some of the other family members or friends were, you know, show me some type of drug and first it starts off at something very light. Right. Because everybody's kind of scared. So it's just like the introduction of marijuana and then little as you go on through maybe into sophomore year and now it's ecstasy pills. Were really big saying just a couple kids that are actually trying to sniff Coke. There is no, you're all the sudden now. It like, at one of the teacher shows up at the party. This thing happen like this. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that was there was there was different things that begin to happen like it did begin to grab as you know, cuz first the first year your kind of just hanging out with people, you know, you're still, you know, kind of thinking of a curfew

22:10 You're still thinking of things, right? And so, you're not, maybe I'm not as comfortable as jumping out the window and sneak out the house, right? Then sophomore year, you get a little bit more courage. And you begin to do this and things get deeper. Because now, it says it's only $10 bags of weed. Now. I've bought in a half a pound and now I'm trying to see how can how fast can I move this or what? Can I move this and what can this do for me? And thinks it is nature. Listen to self.

22:36 You know.

22:39 This began the process of my journey and then when I got into junior year, you know, things were really flying, you know, I had likes, you know, couple thousand dollar chain on, you know, you know what, I was making a lot of money. I was making you no more money than teachers and everybody faculty, you know, so you start doing these things right now to go through a summer, right? The summer. Really like like I guess it was kind of like this from the hip hop artist would say like Jay-Z you said it's a hot summer, right? So these Summers were like, really big. Do we look pivotal because you have so much time and you were out there for your meeting people and make money going all to different places. You know, I'm at like 16 years old, going to New York City and copy drugs.

23:24 Right? Because this is this is what all the connections from the school, began to meet. So she's like, what the Dominican kids, which one of my friends, he's actually just recently passed away. It was that his family, one of his family members was in Spanish Harlem. And so that was the KidCo connection, right? So, just let into like this deep Moschino like criminal activity, cuz he had the connection, because one of his family were. So we would go out there and actually top cocaine and had the best cocaine in that part of Connecticut. And so now, this is beginning to really snowball into something very special in junior year and then head to

24:02 A person coming to me and say, hey, look, I got this real bright idea, but she was probably the dumbest idea in the world book.

24:10 He said hey look, you know, I know this guy that I'm friends with and he's a jeweler and he has a lot of jewelry, you know, like $150,000 worth you want you want to come with me and go ahead and take a piss.

24:25 As we set this whole scheme together and he said look that you know, we could just go in the house with that. He has like $50,000 that he wears on him. So we got to wait until he comes in the house until that led to her basically a home invasion and that led to be going first getting the three-year prison sentence at 17 years old that she committed the crime when I was 16.

24:43 But me being in that Circle, this was an option United, and it was an actual option. For some people. This is not even an option, but it was actually option to get something more. And so,

24:55 That led to me serving three years in prison. And in that first initial three years, there was no, really, no guidance. It was basically just like the human it Warehouse 23 in one situation where we're basically 23 hours in a cell and one one one hour out at that age too. And we were just certain surrounded by just a whole other bunch of kids that were all just basically trying to come up with more ideas of how to be better criminals. Cuz that's the only option. I didn't see schooling as an option. They didn't see any of these because I didn't give any of that to us at that point. So I did about almost three years there with that whole experience and it was very traumatic that she shut down that facility because I think like seven kids hung theirselves when I was there because of that was really bad. It was I think about it now because we went outside maybe like twice a week. Sometimes not even that and then when it was winter time, we can go out at all.

25:52 And so they did that to us like very, very regularly. We get maybe 45 minutes in a recreational Room. Everybody was put in the same clothes, obviously, you know, you know, this very traumatic before, you know, it's very traumatizing for individuals, you know, so that led to that and then I came home with the bright idea like, oh, you know, I did a robbery but I never got caught caught selling drugs. And

26:17 Then I just wanted to sell drugs in that car and I spent a good amount of time out when I bought a year. So I was actually about it and but I did a lot in that time when it came to drug-dealing that. And I got sentenced to 12 suspended after 9, which meant another nine years that I would have to be incarcerated for an outside of that situation with what ended up happening in this, in this incarcerate, this time of incarceration. I was actually around grown individuals who have gone through life. And so that was a better thing because then I could sit there and I can learn from people kind of deducing the donuts. But what ended up happening was I actually found Islam as a religion. And dynamically, you know, it's changed me.

27:08 The reason being is because it, it pushes you to look at yourself and pushes you to look at your character in. One of the first things that I noticed. I'm from just being around them. Listen to incarcerated was their character.

27:22 And so, through the process of that, I was

27:26 You know, I was taking college courses and what not, but I got really intrigued about just studying this long because I thought it was really amazing. I thought it was.

27:34 Really something phenomenal, you know, I would read the books of Islamic law, but then also to books of spiritual refinement, you know, stories of the Prophet, peace be upon him and you know the stories of the prophets just in general cuz we've on all of them. And it really began to show me that, you know, life is much bigger than just a human accumulating material.

27:57 There's something that has to be developed on the inside. There's something that has to be experienced in the Consciousness. There is an actual, you know, you know, God is real, you know, there is a divine order in this whole world and if we conform to it more in fall in harmony with that we were truly experienced ourselves, and that's kind of what I acted against it to kind of experience.

28:22 So that's that's the point. Now you want to ask me some things about what you first, get him out or you know, because a large part of what you do is in the work of prison. Outreach will get into it. Hopefully before we wrap up. But you know, your current role would like outside, you know, you take care of a lot of the underground services to provide support for pick, those were incarcerated. So I know people probably aren't familiar with the phenomenon of conversion to Islam in prison, but it's not the mix. And where were the terms? Like, people like Mike Tyson and the hip hop artist Kevin Gates, but there's probably not too much discussion about

29:08 The needs of those who are incarcerated, who happened to look for it, specifically Islamic material. So just if you could just briefly talked a little bit about what that was like in your facility or in your exit incarcerated experience. Just for those who are who happens to be Muslim, who want to practice her face? Know what was available for them. Well, there was at 1.8., Mm. Am I think it's name is a skill that he was at our facility and I was before actually, I converted, but I used to see him walk down the hallway. And I always have the job a volunteer at the bong down on enough to the cookie and he always was very few. No outstanding a very

29:55 Various presentable, you know, Justin is old demeanor and also to just with his character in this beautiful smile. So that kind of turned me on just in general but we had an email and then that left and basically threw the whole course of my incarceration, the way that one would learn the Slime is that. If basically if you bought your own books from Islamic book stores, there was no real presence of any Islamic organizations or any of the Islamic volunteers.

30:27 My mother actually went to a lot of the different events across the country such as like, why Aslam icna event. You would go continuously specially when it was in Hartford, Connecticut, and she met many awesome friends through that that. That really actually helped out quite a bit with just getting General materials at some point. But even with that, she was very special. During that time. I think we need to talk about 2007/2008. Internet wasn't as robust as it is. Not with a bunch of information was just kind of in a developmental phase, right? Where is it? Now? You can Google anything so she didn't have access to that special that time. So we had a lot to do with just actually heard me looking at an Islamic bookstore catalog. And then beginning to choose kind of what to pick and one of the biggest influence you can come to you. So I think actually just because some of the different things that

31:24 He had put out like miracles of the reaction. I was actually able to get CDs and so I order them never very expensive but it sounds like he leaned out $50 for a set not to where it's like, you know, so it was like a big deal for me know. And it was, it was life changing. It was. And then from that, I learn different authors and different people that I could look to for guidance from that much from a traditional standpoint. So he kind of gave me the, the roadmap specially when it came to Spiritual Development because there was a certain type of Islam that was propagated, that really didn't address a lot of those issues. And so what was manifesting around me? A lot of time cuz actually I guess you would say like almost advocating almost somewhat at some level not so much that it like an extreme mindset and certain things very mannequin. White and black, this is right this wrong, but it wasn't too much. Alright, so at last

32:18 89 minutes. We have to talk about now, your release and UniFirst, your journey back into society, cuz that's obviously a huge experience for anybody. And then eventually how you ended up to where you are today. So I was released in 2012. I was released to a halfway house for like the first 90 days. That was a good experience because I was my first actual experience of going to like Islamic services or jummah prayer, the Friday prayer in real Society. It was a struggle to get there. I got to take the train and I was like, 3 Mile Walk. There's a lot of things I had to go from that, but I'm just not that was my first experience is just being in the halfway house. And then I finally went to back home which was a

33:10 In Bethel, father's house. And with my mother. And so,

33:19 I found a community called Al hidaya Islamic Center and it was a small little Community member 23 people in Newtown, Connecticut that accept me like it was at first, I went to a primarily indo-pak, e Bangladeshi Community mosque and I to go there and I still have the Germans there and everything. So, but just in general, it was very, you know, culturally centered, you know, just kind of to that culture and they'd kind of recommended that I should actually go to Al hidaya, which was very interesting. So. And so I went there and I'm done. There was like a smorgasbord of different cultures and different things. And they're very open and became a very big part of that Community began to be like the youth counselor and give speeches and do all these different types of things. And

34:10 But still inside of me, was a drive to want to study Islam, to learn this lot more and just because, you know, just I've learned in inside and I was still wanted to go out and do, you know, at least leave the state and begin to venture out a little bit until finally at one point. And it was a very. I guess this is another pivotal point, right? There was so I had applied for a job at Kimberly-Clark which was a really good job. And I finally had build my resume enough and built some of my learning and skills and abilities to actually be able to kind of qualified for the job. And so I had they said well, it will probably get back to you like six or seven months after you take the First on this test was quite a bit of time. So in that time, I finally had come to the conclusion specially after I was, you know, I was sentence actually incorrectly when my probationary. So they actually notify my probation cuz I was still, would have been on probation for another about five years. I've been 2017. I finally would have been cleared to basically leave and go wherever I want to go.

35:10 But they found they were there was actually a Miss sentence on that. I was missing since on that actual thing until they let me go early. So I had freedom inability to kind of move wherever I want to go get my password. If I forgot my password, I was ready to go. And finally I said, okay then I was talking to my friend Ruby and who actually had been in the Anaheim area. One point then came over there to move our marriage and he was live right up the street from me. He said, you know, if you really want to study as long as we should talk about it some more time cuz you post them and we are going he's going to walk and go to different places and he said if you want to say it's time, I was suggest that you go to zaytuna university. But what you should do first is go to Anaheim at the Islamic Institute of Orange County and just go there and just get you, let your bearings a little bit, gets go study with them, go connect with them and then go up to zaytuna and I had called shaykh Hamza Yusuf, you told me that I should come. And so, I made the decision finally, just kind of pack up my stuff and go in my car until it literally was funny because

36:11 Like the week before I was about to leave the place calls back to the job and said, hey, you got it. We want you, can you come and it's a great opportunity, right? You know, you're literally work a hundred eighty days out of the year. That's really what happens to how they schedule. So and so I was like man, you guys called a little too late and I just made the kind of the ride, it kind of tripped over and now things got real being told me about my friend was that he had started like a little prison outreach program that he would go to the jail to visit these different guys and he said, maybe you can hook up with army and you guys can maybe do something together and I didn't really think anything of it. So I kind of just drove out and found the campsite and just started going to the classes here at the salon mixx Institute of Orange County. And from that, just started, you know, meeting everybody. Just a couple of lectures, did a couple speeches at different places, start learning, you know, then started traveling.

37:11 What to do in the prison outreach program? That's one thing. So I actually started doing answering letters writing and started content development and we start actually doing the College of Islamic University of California, Islamic University courses, start, extending those out and all the rest is kind of history with that one and, you know, just traveling across to Morocco turkey in different places and trying to bring back any of the little knowledge that I gathered in beginning to kind of place it into the, the prison outreach program and try to give brothers and sisters across the country material that I didn't have access to or opinions, are trying to influence them to kind of take a look at their lives, a little bit differently and try to give some of the

37:57 Some of the advice and give some of the different knowledge that has been gained and experience. That wasn't overall, you know, available to meet myself for not in the during the time incarceration. So maybe just something profound that kind of sums up everything that you're doing or your your, your purpose really. Cuz I think that's kind of how we. Like, I see ourselves at the purpose that we live in history. Right? Those 2021 is pretty interesting events that happened. So she when it comes to really well, it's been going on quite a long time, but actually being highlight, a little bit more of, you know, racial disparity and economic, oppression, and all these different things that have happened to the course of history, especially when it comes to minorities, right?

38:57 I think just for anybody, no matter if they're Muslim non-muslim. Whatever situation is in life. There's a couple two things that I would say. Number one is that if you really want to find your fulfillment in life, that it comes from a being service to others.

39:15 And that's where you'll find your yourself cuz a lot of people, especially in these times, right? They're all looking for a purpose and I can't, you know, I don't know what my thing is and, you know, it will my life is about, I don't know what, you know, I don't find any just happy being service to others. You really find something really deep down to just the last thing is, there's this Maxim. That's that's quoted. Too many books is that if you don't solve other people's problems will become your own.

39:41 So, you know, I think that's dad found those to be true,. So, you know, you have to do, we have to begin to address some of these situations that go on around us or not. They will overburden us become a reality inside of our own home inside of our own lives and become something that or take us at some point. Jesse. Maniccia. We did it. Thank you. I'll talk to you. Okay.