Jillian Cogbill

00:06 Hello. My name is Jillian Cogbill. I'm 38 years old, and today I will be interviewing a colleague of mine, Andrea Reed, and we're going to be discussing caregiving. So, hi. So I just want you to kind of tell us a little bit about yourself, however much you're comfortable with.

00:28 Okay. I am a practice manager. I've been doing that for 20 years. I oversee a practice for a primary care physician. I'm 50 years old, and I am the caregiver to my 94 year old mother.

00:45 Your mom's name?

00:46 Dorothy Petrucci.

00:48 Very good. And if you don't mind telling everybody, how old is your mother?

00:53 She's 94 years.

00:54 Did you tell me?

00:55 Yes, I did. That's okay. Sorry.

01:01 So when it got to a point with your mother where she really needed a caregiver, was that something that was predetermined? Who was actually going to be taking care of her? Cause there's. How many of you all that are siblings?

01:15 I have two sisters. They're both older than me. One is 67, and one is 63. I'm the youngest of my siblings. So when my parents got to a certain age where we knew that, you know, they needed a little bit more help than they could do, you know, on their own, they've always been kind of self sufficient, independent, and they both had. My father passed away four years ago, so that's what I'm saying. Them. They both were. We were blessed that they had their mind. They were independent. Their bodies were just becoming frail. Strength wise, they couldn't do. But they managed their bank accounts. They were driving up until their early nineties. So we were both kind of blessed. We were all blessed at that point. But my mom had, right before she turned 94, she had two different stages of illnesses that hit her, and it seemed to change her. So that's kind of what I call caregiving. I mean, we've been caregivers our whole. Her whole lives, you know, since she was 70 or 80. We would check on them every day, bring them meals. Yeah, yeah. But full time caregiving, making sure she is bathed, fed, medicine is given. That's kind of where we're at right now, 24 hours caregiver.

03:03 So did you know when, you know, this really all started recently with her needing more help, more care? Did everybody just kind of get together and decided you were the best person for the job? I know that your sister's kind of, you know, they're with her during the day while you're at work. You're kind of the main person calling the shots.

03:24 Yeah, I guess as far as healthcare, yes, because I have more access to, you know, what's out there, what's available, and what we should do medically. My oldest sister Kim, she takes care of the money. She is on the account with my mother in case something happens, she can't access her funds. We all three have power of attorney, financially and medically. So that was something put in place when I was in my early twenties. I didn't even realize until later when they told me that we were all three power of attorneys.

04:02 So for anybody who isn't aware of what a power of attorney is, this is actually like an advanced care directive. This is where in the instance that she is incapacitated, is unable to make decisions on her own, then y'all would take over that decision making for her. Right now, does she already have some things in place, like a DNR, do not resuscitate, or is there certain requirements that she has listed that she would prefer not to happen?

04:35 Yes. My mother is different than most people her age. She wants to live forever, and she wants to see her grandkids, her children. You know, she just. She loves her family, so she wants to live as long as she can. And in my line of business, I see other people, elderly people that are her age, and they do not feel that way at all. They want to, you know, just, I've lived my life, you know, I'm ready to go. That kind of thing.

05:14 You know, we're talking like life sustaining.

05:17 Yes, yes. She has made her wishes clear, so.

05:21 Okay, and I'll get into a little bit of that here in just a bit. So was this kind of spontaneous thing, like, I know that you said that y'all had been taking care of her kind of, you know, mentally, she was still able to do most things, but, like, y'all were bringing her meals and things. So to the extent that it is now, was that kind of a spontaneous thing, or did it just kind of progress?

05:51 It kind of progressed there due to when Hurricane Harvey hit. We were trying to get prepared for the storm. My dad was on oxygen. We were worried about having a supply. Cause the news was really, you know, stressing, hey, you know, you might be at your home. You might not be able to access the roads. It looks like we're going to. It's going to flood in our area. You know, we were trying to prepare. So that is when my mother and my father, about four years ago, moved into my sister's home across the street from their home. And it just kind of stayed there. And it progressed where we were like, okay, they're not able to do this anymore. They're not able to do that. We gotta step in to be full time caregivers. So.

06:49 So do you think that there's any part of that with the caregiving process where she had already kind of taken them in? So that process had already kind of started, but then after you tend to get people moved in and you're taking care of them a little more, a little more each day, do you think that there was ever a moment where, like, they really just kind of quit? Like it kind of got used to being taken care of and kind of quit those things or that they were more medical?

07:16 Well, my father, he kind of enjoyed it. You know, he was always had someone to have coffee with in the morning, always, you know, enjoyed my sister when she took him to the appointments or I took him to the. His doctor's appointments, which at that age are a lot. It seems like every day there's a different doctor's appointment. So.

07:43 And just quickly. So since you're talking about that, do y'all have. Is it always the same sister who goes to the appointments, or do y'all kind of alternate, or do you all go together?

07:54 It was primarily myself and my middle sister. My older sister does not participate in taking them to appointments. It's just primarily two different people switching off. So. And it's so many appointments at that age and trying to maintain the different doctors, the nephrologist, the cardiologist, the pharmacy, the actual primary care visits for sick, just different things like that, that it's quite a bit. So we trade off as best we can for maintaining my work schedule and then her schedule because she has grandchildren and children that need her, you know.

08:40 So what does that look like with you and your sister? Like, obviously, you know, everybody has their own doctor appointments and everything also. So you're going all of these for your mother and then also trying to squeeze in yours. How has. Has that been more strenuous on you? What does that kind of look like for you?

09:01 Yes.

09:02 You don't have to go into details.

09:03 About, you know, that's been the most stressful part because I feel like in this process of being a caretaker to my parents, primarily my mother now, since my father passed, but I feel like I want to do my part. You know, my mother is more comfortable with me driving. She doesn't care for my sister's driving at all. And she tends to, you know, she likes how I drive. If she tells me to slow down, a little bit. I do, you know, I try to put myself in her shoes because I know I like to be in control of my vehicle. I don't really like to be a passenger, you know, and she, she misses that. She, she feels like she can't control the, the call of the decision making, you know? So she might say, so slow down a little bit. And my sister's like, I'm fine, you know? And I'll say, okay, I'll just give her peace of mind. So she prefers when I can take her. But, you know, with my work schedule, it's a little bit difficult. But, you know, my sister tries to be a little bit more patient with her when it comes to that. But it is stressful that I can't be there for every appointment and get her to every appointment and that I have to depend on somebody else.

10:33 And I guess to a certain extent, you're really putting the health of your mother and the, the care of your mother ahead of your own needs and taking care of yourself health wise, mentally and physically, emotionally, those are probably pretty challenging.

10:53 They are. Anyone at a certain age, once you pass 30 years of age, you have your own doctor's appointments, dentist eyes, primary care mammograms, pap smears. That kind of appointments, you have to. It seems like we're always canceling something personally for, you know, an appointment for my mom. Cause these days it's a little bit different. You know, every doctor wants to see them. They do offer telehealth, and that has helped us out a lot. If they're willing. If their office is willing to do that.

11:33 Do you have a lot of offices that are not willing to do that?

11:37 A lot of the specialist office offices, the nephrologist, the cardiologists, those types of specialties, specialists, they are not, they're more prone to want to see the patient in person. So that's really not an option. Yes. Yes. So, but it's been lately, the last couple of months, it's kind of been really helpful for her primary care physician. She offers that a little bit more. So it's really helped us out, that is.

12:10 So what has kind of been, what has been the most joyous about being a caregiver? What have you experienced for yourself that you have enjoyed the most about doing it?

12:28 I would say what brings me joy is when I see the smile on my mom's face, the one on one time I get with her. My mother and father had me when they were older. My mom was 39 and my dad was 41. So hence, that's why I'm the youngest and my sisters are altered. So I experienced the laid back parenthood, the more cooler parent. They were strict, very, very strict on my sisters. They had to make up their beds. They had chores. I think they were just kind of worn out when they were raising me. So I got the more laid back parent. It was like, you know, okay, let's go shopping, that kind of thing. So I love to be with her. And we start talking about old times, good times. You remember when we did this? You remember when we went to the beach? Exactly. Reminiscing. And we weren't poor raised growing up, but we weren't the typical family. It was back in the seventies. You know, we all were kind of in the same boat. We just kind of went down to the beach for on vacation, but we didn't have, like, ski trips to Colorado or Disney or anything like that. We just went to High island and, you know, got some fruit at the fruit stand and packs a big lunch and just went down there. And that was our vacation. And it was really enjoyable, you know, great memories, great times at the beach. So we just kind of talk about those and a lot. She's a beach person and so am I, so we always kind of bring that up and then we'll talk about funny things that happen, because when they were younger, we used to play dominoes and cards a lot every Friday night. So those were really good times, too. And we try to, if she feels like it, we'll say, how about a game of dominoes or something like that? And she, we might even unpack them and not ever get to the game, but, you know, but that one on one time with her has really meant a lot to me because I've missed it. And it just, you know, she'll start telling me old stories and we'll just talk a lot. So just that one on one time with her is what really has been nice.

15:11 What has been some of the more difficult things you talked a little bit about?

15:27 Well, some have. Just the number one thing, I think, for me, being my mother's caretaker has really been seeing the decline. The decline mentally, hoping another four years or three years or one year of quality life. I do. I have spent a lot of time in my thoughts and with my sisters. We want as much time as we can with her, but we want it to be quality. I don't want her to suffer. And I'm seeing a lot of decline right now, so it's really hard to see that every day, you know.

16:29 And you don't have to answer this if you don't want to. Do you feel like your sisters kind of look to you in this, you know, kind of towards the end? What's the burden of that?

16:43 Like, I have a burden on me and that burden, and it will uplift me, you know, or something like that. So we do depend on each other, but, yes, they do depend on me a lot. Lot. And what. Why can't they fix this or she's going through, you know what I mean? I just can't just take all of her problems away. And that's what I'm used to.

18:02 I'm a fix it person, and that's what it's wanted.

18:06 It is. It's like. Yes, it's like if I don't. This is. Personally, I feel this way. They might not feel that way. You interview them.

18:15 I mean, everybody kind of sees things a little differently, but I feel like.

18:20 I let them down. In other words, like, if I can't resolve the issue or give them an answer, and sometimes in life, you find out there are. There are no fixits or there, you can't fix everything, you know, just gotta.

18:34 Give it to God.

18:35 Yes, absolutely.

18:42 So I know that your sisters, you know, they're kind of in this with you and you're not doing it all alone, but with your family, and maybe not even just with your siblings, but what about your outside family? Because I know there's, you know, some cousins and things like that. So how difficult or how easy is it for that communication for you to be able to get all the information?

19:27 Any family member, I try to give her confidence and what I say, you know, we're going to do this, we're going to do that, and hopefully this is the outcome. You know, I know a lot of people don't do that. And I found that really is a plus with my mother because she's not asking a thousand times, where are we going? What are we doing a cardiology appointment and what it's for? So I'm a big communicator. I try to be on the worst part of that. Sometimes I'm so busy, I don't explain myself or I don't communicate well. And I'm just like, you know, I told you or whatever, and I try not to do that because I think that that's big communicating with my sisters and my mother. The outside, there is a lot of family, a lot of friends that are constantly trying to communicate. Hey, can we come by? There's church people in the church very religious? Yes, very religious. Very religious beliefs in her faith, in her God. So.

20:57 So how important is keeping her church congregation up to speed? How important is that? Where does that land on y'all's priority list in terms of that, since that seems to be, like, one of the most important things?

21:10 Well, I think it's very important because we have a lot calling from the, from her church. My sister attends the same church. My mother is classified as what? A shut in. So they have a team at her church that calls and checks on the shut ins. And now, which I think is wonderful because it's always. They're very uplifting. There's older members of the church that come and visit. They'll bring pies and cakes and little goodies and little uplifting, you know, things for my mother. They've been all very supportive. So that's, that's a good thing, you know, but I try to always keep them in the know how, where she's at, what's going on. You know? If you could keep her in your prayers, that would be great. So I usually try to communicate with everybody that reaches out to me, but not be, overstep my bounds where I feel like a burden on them. You know what I mean?

22:21 Yeah.

22:21 Can you do this? Can you do that? I just ask them, always say, keep her in your prayers. That's the most important thing to her. I, you know, and they do. It's a wonderful church.

22:35 Have you ever been a caregiver to anyone else? I know that you mentioned briefly that y'all kind of went through the same thing with your dad.

22:46 Yes.

22:47 How was that different from the caregiving that you're giving your mother now?

22:55 It had its. It has quite a few differences. I didn't really start out to be my caregiver for my dad. My dad was always so strong and my hero in my eyes. I was super close. I was super close to my dad, close to my mom, but really close to my father. We thought alike, we acted alike. I mean, that was the difference. He was more of my friend, and he never really. I never saw myself as a caregiver to him, but yet I did caregiver, you know, stuff. It got to a point where, you know, we knew he needed us, and we tried to hire caregivers outside the family. It was just. It just didn't work. My father was really scared. He was experiencing some cardiovascular dementia, and that's the way the doctor had, you know, described it. Not full blown dementia. He knew who his children were. He could remember who the president was at the time, you know, President Trump, a funny thing, I'll tell you about this, not that you asked, but we always laughed. And at the time, his church was being, there was a new pastor that was coming in and his name was Tuttle. And at the time, President Trump had just been elected. So he was like, did Trump get it? Did Trump get it? And so we were like, yeah, well, we were trying to get, trying to introduce the pastor into his family. Hey, we've got a new pastor. And he would get them confused. So he would say, President Tuttle, you know, it's President Tuttle there. And then when the pastor came and he was like, you know, Pastor Trump, you know, he would get him confused. So we always laughed about that. But sure, the pastor, for sure.

24:56 Yeah.

24:57 But my relationship was different with my father. I didn't look at myself as a caretaker, and I took him to some appointments and so forth, but I really was just more of a concerned daughter. And whatever he needed, I would have give, you know, but I really am a following in a role of a caretaker for my mother because we manage her, like I said, her day to day, you know, functions, bath, food, medication, bill, pain. Yes, yes, yes. PT, physical therapy and stuff like that. Trying to be encouraging because she refused, refuses to do it. If one of us is not involved, you know, we have to be that encouraging element in the room because she'll just, she's at the point where she doesn't want to do it, you know, so a little bit different. It's a 24 hours job with my mom where it was not with my father. We had some, some help, you know, it ended up being that way. But I, this is, we're at the spot with my mom where it's 24 hours care and we rotate, you know, when one can't kind of take it anymore or I'm at work, they, they know what they have to accomplish and pull for the day. And then I, like, you know, tonight is Friday, so I'll be more hands on Friday, Saturday and Sunday, you know, or after hours, after I get off from work, you know.

26:34 Yeah. So my final question, what are you doing as an outlet, and how are you finding ways, outside of being a caregiver to take care of yourself?

26:55 I really try to keep my mental healthy. It's physically demanding and physically grueling. And if you don't think it is, it is. And I have a lot of empathy for anyone that calls themselves a caretaker actually does caretaking or isn't employed as a caretaker because it is physically and mentally demanding and grueling. And I try to. I try to keep my mental in a good place because I feel like the more mentally stable I am, the better care I can give her.

27:44 So what are you doing to ensure that? Are you practicing hobbies? You're reading a book?

27:51 I like to read. I listen to a lot of music. I try to relax a lot mentally. We live. My neighborhood backs up to a horse farm or ranch, whatever they call it. I don't really know. But in the morning time, I take a lot of time, as much as I can, peacefully. I watch the horses and it just brings me peace. I pray a lot. Um, I try to, anyway, um, I try to surround myself with peaceful stuff, and that does. I say that every day and it never happens. So, uh, as much as I can. Uh, because, you know, when you work outside in the public, it's demanding and grueling too, and there's always deadlines to meet. Uh, but I try my best that I can to just bring some type of calm and mental peace to myself daily, in whatever form I can get it, you know?

28:51 Yeah. So. So I know your mother. Kindness. I've met her. I've had some interaction with her. She is a lovely, lovely woman. And your sisters are pretty amazing.

29:05 That means a lot. Thank you.

29:06 And you're actually my boss, so you've been pretty amazing at work, even going through all of this. You're very concerned with the welfare of everyone else in your company, so we've appreciated that. And for whatever it's worth, there is something beautiful in the caretaking process.

29:28 Yes.

29:29 And, you know, our parents take care of us.

29:32 Yes.

29:33 And then we take care of them in the end.

29:35 Yes. I thought that was beautiful.

29:37 Cycle of life. Yeah.

29:40 And you don't realize it. And I'm much older than you, and you're pretty amazing yourself because I get to see that daily. But it's. You don't realize that when you're young and I'm at a season in my life where I am, I'm seeing that it's a beautiful cycle of life there such good things about being a caretaker, especially to your parents, or even if you choose this as a source of employment, surely you've chosen that for a reason, that you can bring something to their lives. And if you haven't chosen it for that reason, you might want to rethink it. But because, like I said, it can be mentally and physically grueling. And to me, if I chose that as employment, I chose this out of love, because, like, you said, that is such a beautiful point to me. They took care of you all your life, and now you're in the circle of life and you're taking care of them, you know, but that's where I'm at on the caretaking spectrum. But if you chose this for employment, I would hope that you could just try to bring something to their little.

30:50 Lives and gain something.

30:52 Exactly. They are if caring for the elderly, to me, and I will add this, and I hope it's not too much, but I have found them to be so much, so interesting if you really can get them to tell you little things about their lives. Again, my mom's 94, so she was even alive during the depression, you know, and I. Cute note, my little. He would be my great nephew, but he feels like just my nephew. He was doing a, you know, assignment in school, and they were like, if you could find somebody that, you know, knows about the depression, and he was telling us what his assignment was, and I was like, son, you have a person that lived through it right there, you know, so he was able to really tell you a lot of. She was able to tell him a lot of interesting things. She also was a, you know, a child during Pearl harbor, and she remembers thinking that they were discussing a girl named Pearl, you know, so they're very interesting, that generation. They have so much to offer, and they. They know how to sew, most of them, and cook and, you know, build things. They're so much. So different than ours generation. I mean, I can't even look, sew a button on.

32:20 There's definitely a sadness in the law, the generation itself, because we're losing so much valuable information and also, hopefully have gained.

32:29 Yes. Typically, caregiving is to the elderly. I'm not saying caregiving, but typically it is to the elderly. So. But there's so much to learn and so such interesting stories that you can, you know, learn from them. But I've really enjoyed it. I've. I've learned a lot from my mom, even at this age, that some things I didn't even know, you know, and she's my mom.

32:55 Yeah. Well, hopefully you have, you know, quite a bit left with her.

33:01 Yes, I hope so.

33:02 Andrea I really appreciate you letting me interview for this. I know it was a little short notice also, so I'm very grateful.

33:10 Jillian thank you. I'm grateful for you, and thank you.

33:12 For sharing your story.

33:13 Thank you for your kind words.

33:15 Cool.

33:24 Is that okay?

33:26 It's a.