Joan Pleune and Connie Norgren

[00:03] JOAN PLEUNE: Hi, I'm Joan Pleune I'm 83 years old. Today is April 29, 2022. I'm at the YWCA on Third Avenue in Brooklyn. I live here. My interview partner is Connie Norgren, and we're friends.

[00:23] CONNIE NORGREN: My name is Connie Norgren. I'm 76 years old. Today is April 29, 2022. I'm here with Joan, my friend, at the YWCA in Brooklyn on Third Avenue. And we're going to talk about Joan's life. And I thought it would be really great to start to do this chronologically. And, Joan, I want to know about your childhood. I know you were born in New Jersey.

[00:53] JOAN PLEUNE: I was born in Newark, New Jersey. I don't think I lived there very long. I think my parents lived there a year, and then they moved to Livingston, New Jersey. They bought a little Cape Cod style house. My sister was born a year later. My sister kit. I'm here today, I think, probably because I was a freedom rider. My sister Kit also was a freedom rider, and we were in jail together in Jackson, Mississippi, for five and a half weeks in the summer of 1961.

[01:30] CONNIE NORGREN: Can you talk a little bit about your parents and your early life in schooling and the schools you went to?

[01:38] JOAN PLEUNE: My father was from Holland, and he was 16 years older than my mother. They got married when my mother was 30. So my father was pretty old when I was born, and I was the oldest one. I think he was 49 when I was born, and my youngest sister was. He was 53 when my youngest sister was born. My father was a funny man. He said that he did not like people of color, but it wasn't true. Everyone he ever met, he invited into the house, sat down in front of the television, had a scotch and soda. So basically, my sisters and I grew up with no racism in the house, you know?

[02:30] CONNIE NORGREN: And you went off to college, you went to California.

[02:36] JOAN PLEUNE: When I went to college, I first went to college in North Carolina.

[02:40] CONNIE NORGREN: Right.

[02:40] JOAN PLEUNE: I went to the women's college of the University of North Carolina. It was very interesting. It was the first year they integrated the dorms at the women's college, and there were all these kind of young women there who didn't quite know what to make of this situation. They weren't hostile, but they didn't know what to make of it. And I was pretty comfortable with it because I grew up in south Orange, in Maplewood, New Jersey. And so I kind of served as an intermediary between the young black women who were handpicked to go to the women's college the first year they were all dressed out in dupes clothing, which is equivalent to Saks Fifth Avenue. And it was a very interesting experience.

[03:38] CONNIE NORGREN: And what made you decide to leave North Carolina?

[03:43] JOAN PLEUNE: I don't think it was a good decision. In retrospect. It wasn't. I applied to go to Chapel Hill for my junior year, and I applied to go to Berkeley. My sister was living out in Berkeley, so I was accepted by Berkeley and I went. It's not a decision I wish I had made.

[04:00] CONNIE NORGREN: And what was your main area of study when you went to.

[04:03] JOAN PLEUNE: Oh, I studied experimental psychology. So I went to Berkeley in 1957. In 1959, I was there. And in 1960, the Greensboro sit ins happened. And I had been in Greensboro. Right. And I was just so upset that I was not in Greensboro to participate in this. Now, I don't think there were a lot of white people participating in 1960 in Greensboro, North Carolina, but I was really unhappy that I wasn't there. And I knew some of these kids from a and t. So. Yeah.

[04:46] CONNIE NORGREN: So how did you make the decision to, you made a huge decision when you were 21 years old to be on the freedom rides. How did that come about?

[05:00] JOAN PLEUNE: Well, then. So there was Greensboro.

[05:03] CONNIE NORGREN: Yes.

[05:03] JOAN PLEUNE: And then there was the sit ins in Jackson, Mississippi, in 1961. And James Farmer, who I hope people know about. James Farmer, lovely guy. He was the head of core Congress on racial equality in New York. And he sent Michael Harrington, who actually was an old socialist, out to Berkeley and other places like Chicago to recruit people. And Michael came to the student peace Union house, which was the Young People's Socialist League, and there was a meeting there. And he recruited 16 of us. Yeah, that's a lot. And we went, you know, I always thought, like, we had months to think about it. It was like a week or two.

[06:02] CONNIE NORGREN: Wow.

[06:03] JOAN PLEUNE: And then. And then we went.

[06:04] CONNIE NORGREN: And suddenly you were. And I understand from that you went. You went on a train from, like, tell us the journey from California to New Orleans to different groups, from different.

[06:19] JOAN PLEUNE: Parts of the country went in different ways. We went by train. So we went by train from Berkeley, Oakland, I guess, probably to Los Angeles to New Orleans. And then from New Orleans, we spent the night there. Presumably. They said they trained us in nonviolence. I don't remember it. And we went from there the next day to Jackson, Mississippi. We were in a train car. Rita and I were together. She was my partner. And we were on a train carved, which was full of FBI agents in those hats, like FBI agents used to wear. Right arms. These guys were armed. And we rode that way into Jackson.

[07:12] CONNIE NORGREN: And tell us about Rita. What? She was kind of a special person.

[07:18] JOAN PLEUNE: Rita was very young. Rita was a young african american woman. She was 17 years old. And I don't know whether they got her parents permission. I guess they did because my sister was 20 when she signed up, and they got my mother's permission. Yeah. So I was Rita's partner. I saw Rita a few years ago. Oprah had us all come to. To Chicago for a reunion. I. Oprah paid for this reunion. And so Rita said, you remember me? Yeah.

[08:02] CONNIE NORGREN: And you had a special job with Rita in a way, because you were an older person.

[08:08] JOAN PLEUNE: I was an older person. I was 22.

[08:10] CONNIE NORGREN: You were supposed to sort of be her protector.

[08:13] JOAN PLEUNE: That's right.

[08:16] CONNIE NORGREN: I. Let's go back for a minute and think about the effect of making this decision on your family, on your mother, particularly.

[08:24] JOAN PLEUNE: Yeah. My father had died the year before. My father was a CPA, and my mother was. I certainly am croaking. And my mother was a secretary, and she could do CPA work. And when my father died, my mother took over the work for his clients, and it was her living. And his clients threatened her. They threatened that if she did not disown me and my sister over this freedom rider stuff. Right. That they would not continue to give her work. But she refused to do it. And she kept working and she kept supporting us. And she had the FBI all over the neighborhood asking neighbors questions about us. It was like that in those days. If you were a radical, the FBI was looking for you.

[09:20] CONNIE NORGREN: So she was very. So she was very brave to keep supporting.

[09:25] JOAN PLEUNE: She was brave. I mean, she would have rather we didn't do it. Right, right. But when it happened, you know, she supported us. She used to call the jailer every day or so.

[09:38] CONNIE NORGREN: Wow.

[09:40] JOAN PLEUNE: In Mississippi to ask how we were.

[09:43] CONNIE NORGREN: And once. And when you got arrested, when you got to Mississippi, what happened to you?

[09:50] JOAN PLEUNE: We spent a week, a really fun week, actually, in the Hines county jail, where there were 42 women in one large cell. But then they moved us to Parchman State penitentiary, where we were all put in six by nine cells, either two or three to a cell. Mine happened to have three women in a cell. We never got out of the cell except twice a week. I thought it was once, but people have said twice to take a shower, a quick shower, and they gave us lye to wash our hair with, so we all had hair that was, like, sticking out like that.

[10:33] CONNIE NORGREN: And how long were you in jail?

[10:35] JOAN PLEUNE: Five and a half weeks.

[10:36] CONNIE NORGREN: Five and a half weeks like that.

[10:38] JOAN PLEUNE: Right.

[10:38] CONNIE NORGREN: And what was it like, to get out. What was.

[10:43] JOAN PLEUNE: I don't remember. We went to Tennessee, and then cor flew us back to New Jersey, actually, not to California. And when I remember, we drank a lot of.

[10:57] CONNIE NORGREN: And when you were on the train and going into the south, were you afraid? Did you have. Were you scared? Were you.

[11:09] JOAN PLEUNE: I seem to have a deficiency of fear. I'm not often, I can't remember being afraid, you know, I mean, I'm not well now, and I'm not really afraid of dying. I just don't seem to be afraid.

[11:29] CONNIE NORGREN: And you are a person, I have to say, that goes out into the world and goes to vigils and goes on subways and stuff. And I see you as very fearless up to this, up to this day, and I expect to see you fearless for a long time to come. So what were the next steps after jail? Like, how did your life continue after you got out of parchment farm?

[12:04] JOAN PLEUNE: I went back to Berkeley. I hadn't graduated. I hadn't done statistics. That's why I hadn't graduated. I did all the statistics work, and then through the statistics, out with the Sunday Times. And so eventually, a couple years later, I redid it and graduated. When I graduated, I tried to get a job in Berkeley or Oakland or Alameda, any of those towns out there, and I couldn't. I couldn't get a job. The Mississippi state sovereignty commission had put the kibosh on all of us, and we could not get state jobs. So I eventually came back to New York, and Mayor Wagner, I found out not too many years ago, had issued a proclamation that if people had been civil rights workers, the jail thing didn't hold. If you were arrested at doing any kind of civil rights work, you could be employed by the city of New York.

[13:10] CONNIE NORGREN: Wow.

[13:11] JOAN PLEUNE: Yeah. So I became a caseworker like everybody else.

[13:17] CONNIE NORGREN: And how long did that last?

[13:19] JOAN PLEUNE: Six months. And then I got pregnant and got married.

[13:23] CONNIE NORGREN: And I do want to say that, Joan, that you have had an incredibly busy and full life and have also raised three extraordinary children during that life. Well, thank you, Vandy and Kojo and Gavin. So this is. So tell us what happens next. Like, what then? You got work as a literacy teacher. You got work.

[13:54] JOAN PLEUNE: I worked as a caseworker for six months, and then I got married and had kids, and eventually I got divorced. Right. And I went to work for the literacy assistance center as sort of a glorified secretary. But as part of that job, there was a guy there who taught literacy in New York libraries, and he would take me with him and I learned to teach literacy from this really amazing guy. He died of AIDS in the late eighties, but he was really knowledgeable, kind, you know. And so we taught literacy in the Harlem library, the Mount Haven Library, a number of them. And eventually I just got into the field and ran programs at the Mount Haven Library and at the Harlem Library and at the St. Agnes Library. Yeah.

[14:57] CONNIE NORGREN: And you were raising children and you were also. You were also continued to be a political activist, less so. Right.

[15:05] JOAN PLEUNE: I mean, because when you teach literacy, you work at night.

[15:08] CONNIE NORGREN: Yeah. You know. So can you tell us from all this incredible busyness to your activism in many, many causes, starting maybe with the war in Vietnam or grandmothers against the war and meeting people who were activists against the war?

[15:38] JOAN PLEUNE: Yeah. I'm not quite sure how I. Thank you. How I got back into being an activist. I know I was on a march with vets for peace and was marching up Fifth Avenue. And the Granny Peace Brigade, which at that time was grandmothers against the war, was in front of Rock Center.

[16:03] CONNIE NORGREN: Rockefeller center.

[16:04] JOAN PLEUNE: Yeah, rock center, we called it Rock center in front of Rockefeller center. And so I started going there on Wednesday evenings to vigil with them every Wednesday from five to six, and that's what I did. And then we formed the Granny Peace Brigade. We would meet afterwards. We formed the Granny Peace Brigade, and we became quite an active group of older women. Not so active anymore, although did you notice we have a bunch of birthdays coming up?

[16:43] CONNIE NORGREN: Yes.

[16:47] JOAN PLEUNE: But, yeah, very active. So they vigil that there. We were very active with the city council in getting them to get Jay ROTC out of the schools. That was a big campaign of ours. I've also recently, not so recently, the last seven years, been active against solitary confinement in New York state.

[17:16] CONNIE NORGREN: Could we go back? Because there's a lot of different important issues that you have had a real effect on. But could we go back to the Granny Peace brigade and the war in Iraq and when people got arrested at Times Square recruiting station.

[17:37] JOAN PLEUNE: Yeah.

[17:38] CONNIE NORGREN: And then we'll go on to all the other things you have been involved in.

[17:42] JOAN PLEUNE: I want to say that most grannies do not risk arrest. However, there was a handful of us. Yeah. Actually, half of us who did risk arrest, so we blocked the. One of the things we did was we blocked the recruiting center in Times Square so nobody could get in to sign up to go to any of these places. And we were arrested doing that.

[18:14] CONNIE NORGREN: And what was your, and what, what did you say? Why, why were you blocking, what were you asking the recruiters to do at that time you were saying, oh, we.

[18:24] JOAN PLEUNE: Were asking people not to go in.

[18:26] CONNIE NORGREN: Right.

[18:26] JOAN PLEUNE: We knew the recruiter. We knew the recruiters.

[18:29] CONNIE NORGREN: You said, take us into the war and leave our grandchildren alone.

[18:32] JOAN PLEUNE: That's right.

[18:37] CONNIE NORGREN: And what happened after those arrests? Did you go to trial?

[18:43] JOAN PLEUNE: We went to trial, but basically we spent the day in a cell. We went to trial and trying to think whether we served any real time in New York. I mean, I was in jail cells in New York a lot. I was in active with Reverend Sharpton in a massive blocking of tunnels and bridges and stuff around New York over Amadou Diallo, I believe was the case. Yeah.

[19:19] CONNIE NORGREN: Yeah. And the Granny peace brigade continues to be very active today. I mean, they less so.

[19:28] JOAN PLEUNE: But we're still there.

[19:31] CONNIE NORGREN: Yes, absolutely. You're still there on the streets with vigils and penny polls and talking to people on the street. And could you talk about some of the other things you've done, anti racist work and all kinds of, and solitary confinement work and counter recruiting work to keep, keep young people out of the military. Could you talk about some of those?

[19:57] JOAN PLEUNE: Evidently you can better than I can.

[20:03] CONNIE NORGREN: Well, how did you get connected with halt or.

[20:11] JOAN PLEUNE: Through Fran, what was the name of the young man, Fareed, who was, he spent a year in Colorado under a rock.

[20:27] CONNIE NORGREN: I don't remember.

[20:29] JOAN PLEUNE: You don't remember the Paris case?

[20:30] CONNIE NORGREN: No.

[20:33] JOAN PLEUNE: Well, anyway, so I met Fran Gatella Shapiro there at a demonstration having to do with, I forget why he was in jail. I will remember.

[20:51] CONNIE NORGREN: It doesn't take much sometimes in our country.

[20:54] JOAN PLEUNE: So I met Fran there and she said to me, oh, I know what you would like. You'd like to be part of halt. So she invited me to a meeting of the anti solitary confinement group, also known as halt or humane alternatives to long term confinement. And that was just my kind of thing because it involved racism. You know, I wasn't happy with just simply anti war stuff. I wanted things that involved racism. And solitary confinement in prison definitely involves racism.

[21:38] CONNIE NORGREN: And you also worked with, you also continued to do anti war work against the war in Yemen. You attended the vigil, the Yemen to this very day. To this very day, which has been going on for five years. The war has been going on for almost eight years now. And that's been going on for five years. And I have to say that you and I worked, I met you through a mutual friend, Eleanor, and we worked with a group called Booklet for Peace. And we did counter recruiting work. We went to high schools and we gave out information at six in the morning. Yes. When it was dark, lots of mornings, and we gave out endless, very long leaflets about alternatives to the military.

[22:31] JOAN PLEUNE: That's right.

[22:32] CONNIE NORGREN: And then I followed you, and then you said, you're doing this Yemen vigil. And I followed you there. And to a much less extent, I followed you to the people at halt doing anti solitary work. I did a little bit, but you definitely are a clear inspiration and to many, many people.

[22:56] JOAN PLEUNE: I don't feel that way. Well, you're an inspiration to me.

[23:03] CONNIE NORGREN: I would like.

[23:04] JOAN PLEUNE: You were talking about Carmen before.

[23:06] CONNIE NORGREN: Yes.

[23:06] JOAN PLEUNE: Carmen Trott is this man who is at the Yemen vigil all the time and who spent. How long was he in prison?

[23:21] CONNIE NORGREN: I'm not sure, but longer than.

[23:25] JOAN PLEUNE: Yeah. He was one of the ploughshare seven who were arrested in Georgia for breaking into an army base and hugging a nuclear missile. And they were arrested, and he spent not quite two years in jail. He got 20 years, but they let him out in two years. And Carmen is a catholic worker, and he's at all the vigils that I'm at, and I think he's just the best.

[23:58] CONNIE NORGREN: Can you say a little bit about what the catholic workers do? I mean, daily or every minute of the day?

[24:07] JOAN PLEUNE: The Catholic Workers, they live either on third street or first street in Manhattan. There's a couple residences, and they pray a lot. But they're also political activists, and they feed the homeless, they go to church, and they get arrested. And Carmen managed to be arrested in St. Patrick's Cathedral for yelling at the priest. And so they told me he spent a couple days in a mental warden.

[24:49] CONNIE NORGREN: And one of the questions from StoryCorps that we thought was intriguing was if you could interview anyone from your life, why? And you said, carmen. Carmen Trotter. And I guess you kind of did explain why, but I thought that was a very.

[25:09] JOAN PLEUNE: He's the best. He's kind. If somebody homeless comes up to the, the vigil, he goes and he walks them away and he talks to them. And if they need a little money or a little food, you know, takes care of that, you know, he educates.

[25:25] CONNIE NORGREN: Himself about, about issues, and he really does. Well, he can. He can speak on the street and make people listen.

[25:34] JOAN PLEUNE: Yep.

[25:36] CONNIE NORGREN: And he's not, you know, he's not full of himself. Yes. He's just saying this is what's happening, and we have to stop it. Could you say a little bit, just anything about your life that you'd like people to know? I know you're incredibly modest, so that you probably. But something that we might not know that you would like to talk about a little bit?

[26:12] JOAN PLEUNE: No.

[26:14] CONNIE NORGREN: Okay, tell. I would like to hear a couple of stories that you told me before, which is, what a perfect day when you were small, when you were a child, what would a perfect day be like with your family? And you described car rides.

[26:37] JOAN PLEUNE: You don't mean to talk about. When I was little, we had one of the first cars in the neighborhood, a 1948 Oldsmobile. And my father and mother and two sisters, we would go for rides on Sunday afternoons. Just go for a ride. People don't do that anymore. You don't get in a car, because it's a fun thing to do anymore. You know, then we'd go to apple orchards and either pick apples or buy apples and that kind of thing. We didn't have a lot of happy family memories, and so that actually is one of the rare ones. My father had a really violent temper. He was a sweet man. But, you know, if the dog peed on the rug, my father threw a boot at me. And it was hard. I mean, you know.

[27:30] CONNIE NORGREN: Yeah. But he also. You told to me a story about his funeral, and I think it was. Must have been very hard. He died just about the time when you were. Before you went.

[27:44] JOAN PLEUNE: Year before I went on the freedom ride. I sometimes wonder whether we would have gone if he had been alive, you know?

[27:51] CONNIE NORGREN: Yeah. Can you tell the story about his funeral and how. How. And one thing about your father that you told me was that he loved music. He also loved education, and he made very sure that you and your sister ended up at good schools.

[28:09] JOAN PLEUNE: Well, ended up in school, but we really ended up in school because he thought we should meet a rich man and get married. That was my father.

[28:22] CONNIE NORGREN: And he loved Beethoven.

[28:24] JOAN PLEUNE: My father loved Beethoven. When he died, a lot of people coming to the funeral were in Europe, and so the funeral was put off. The burial part was put off for five days, but my father still lay in a casket, an open casket, mind you, in a funeral home. And my sister and I. My sister in, closest to me in age, brought my father's Beethoven records to the funeral home because the, you know, funeral music is pretty terrible. And they had a, you know, Victrola. Victrola. Wow. But it had all this old funeral music on it. So we put Beethoven on it, and Beethoven Washington. Well, Beethoven tends to go from very soft to very loud. You can almost see my father sitting up in his casket.

[29:30] CONNIE NORGREN: You majored in psychology, and you majored in visual perception and cognition and memory, and you also have a fascination and a passion for rocks and for, I guess, paleontology. Can you talk a little bit about all those things, about what your passions are, what you love to study and think about?

[29:55] JOAN PLEUNE: They're great hobbies. I love studying cognition. I think the brain is the most fascinating thing, how it works. Why, you know, rocks are just pretty.

[30:11] CONNIE NORGREN: But you went on. You have gone on digs and looked and looked for fossils and things like that, and you're knowledgeable about.

[30:21] JOAN PLEUNE: There were these two guys in graduate school with me, and every summer, they would rent a car or get a hold of something and go out to South Dakota. And I was like, hey, you know, my kids were old enough to be by themselves, and I went with them.

[30:38] CONNIE NORGREN: I also know that you. And that you rode a motorcycle as a younger person, and can you. How did that come about? And where did you go on your motorcycle?

[30:54] JOAN PLEUNE: Okay, that isn't working.

[31:00] CONNIE NORGREN: Do you want me to open it?

[31:01] JOAN PLEUNE: Yeah, I guess. I didn't ride a motorcycle for very long. Okay. My ex husband bought me a motorcycle when I was 30, and it's gonna squeeze and come up when I was 30, and we rode some in New England. My mother took care of my kids, our kids, and we went to New England, but then we got divorced, and I really thought it was dangerous for me to ride a motorcycle with two young kids. Yes. Yes. So I sold the motorcycle. You want to hear a story about me selling the motorcycle?

[31:49] CONNIE NORGREN: Sure.

[31:50] JOAN PLEUNE: Okay. This was Ellen Matthews husband, Bill Matthews, from park Slope, and I was going to sell him the motorcycle, and he came over the night before I was moving to Chicago. Right. And he didn't have any money. He had pounds of pot. So he said, I got to give you this pot. You can sell it. I'm like, oh, no. So, okay, I took the pot, and I took it on the plane to Chicago. I never did sell it.

[32:27] CONNIE NORGREN: I also want to say that there's a book that was, I should know, the year of its publication called Breach of peace, and it's called Portraits of the 1961 Mississippi Freedom Writers. And Joan is featured there, and her sister, Katherine Kitt Ploon, are both in this book and interviewed.

[32:49] JOAN PLEUNE: And there's magnificent pictures, as well as 300 other people.

[32:53] CONNIE NORGREN: As well as 300 other people.

[32:55] JOAN PLEUNE: That is, we weren't the only ones there.

[32:59] CONNIE NORGREN: And that you have been honored. You have been on the front cover of the New York Times for those who want Medicare for all because you blockaded Schumers office, because you wanted him to support Medicaid for all, and also Jews for racial and economic justice. Jay Fredge honored you in 2011, along with CT Vivian in their program, because you were on the front lines for freedom and along with Jose Antonio Vargas. And you and CT Vivian were honored that year. So. And what, how did that feel? I remember when you told me you were going to do it, you kind of said, you said, oh, they want me to go to this thing, and they want me to talk a little bit. Jay Fredge wants me to go to this thing and talk a little bit because you were never, you were incredibly modest and, well, not modest, but I.

[34:08] JOAN PLEUNE: Was funny that night.

[34:09] CONNIE NORGREN: You don't. You were funny that night, and you talked really, really well, and you talked off the cuff, which always impresses me because I'm very bad at that. I would have to have notes and everything. You were terrific. And it was a wonderful evening.

[34:27] JOAN PLEUNE: It was fun.

[34:28] CONNIE NORGREN: Yeah. It was lots of fun. Yes. And you have lived a life of very impressive actions, and I wish I could do more.

[34:41] JOAN PLEUNE: I wish I could do a bunch of them again.

[34:43] CONNIE NORGREN: And what. And what would you like to see? What would you like to see for.

[34:50] JOAN PLEUNE: The earth right now and into racism? It's always been at the top of the list of priorities. It doesn't go away, and I find it really heartbreaking.

[35:06] CONNIE NORGREN: Yeah.

[35:06] JOAN PLEUNE: You know.

[35:14] CONNIE NORGREN: Five minutes. Okay. Can you tell? Let's see. Let me look at. I just think of you as living a life out in the world and on streets and talking to people all the time about what you believe and learning about what you believe and teaching people. Can you talk a little bit about what it was like to be a literacy teacher at the end of this interview? Like, what did you love about.

[35:55] JOAN PLEUNE: I love being a literacy. A teacher. I loved it. I was with people I wanted to be with. Who, when you're a literacy teacher, you're not really a do gooder. It's not like being a social worker. You're working with people, hopefully on a level playing field. And I learned so much from the people that I helped learn to read and write, much more, I think, than they learned from me. I learned of life experiences that I, you know, I had no idea. No idea. I have this home health aide now, and today, last hour, we didn't have much to do. And she was telling me about her life, and it's so great hearing about other lives, you know? And so that's about it. I loved being a literacy teacher.

[36:59] CONNIE NORGREN: You got to work in libraries and.

[37:02] JOAN PLEUNE: I got to work at libraries, which was really special because we had books. Yeah.

[37:12] CONNIE NORGREN: Well, for me, it's been, you know, an honor and lots of fun to know you mainly. And to ask and to talk with you today.

[37:23] JOAN PLEUNE: Okay, we're done.

[37:30] CONNIE NORGREN: What did I leave out?