Joanne Hurt and Tammy Mann

00:03 I'm Joanne hurt and I am 55 years old and today is December 7th 2020 and I'm in Washington DC and I am with Tammy Mann and I are partners that we have a project that we're working on and we're also colleagues in the field of early childhood education and before and after school program.

00:32 And I am Tammy Mann. I am 56 years of age. And today is December 7th, 2020 and I am in Fairfax, Virginia and I am here with Joanne hurt a colleague of mine. We work together and early care and education issues here in the DC metro area.

00:59 So Tammy, I guess there's so much that we could talk about but

01:07 I guess we should talk initially about how we met even though it was I guess 4 years ago. Now it feels like we've known each other longer than that and some ways. So do you remember when we first started connecting around the project of the equity in early learning initiative? Yes, I remember Lindsey at colleague in common that we both know who heads up an organization School Readiness Consulting being very excited about the opportunity to create energy in the region around how early childhood programs are addressing issues of race equity in organizations. And in the work that we do with young children, and I remember being very energized about the possibility of working together, even though I know that were

02:07 It's really really hard. But it was it was energizing thinking about having a chance to connect with others in the region who were of like minds and wanting to make progress in this area. Yeah. It was well, I remember because I think at the time you were the chair of the board of the National Association for the education of young children is like meeting a rockstar and then I was so excited that you

02:41 It's just such important work to make sure that children are in early learning environments where they feel like their identity development is being supported in multiple ways and see how the project that we are doing that looks at teaching and learning and Leadership of programs and and family engagement is some such a great approach to it because it it makes it more holistic and I think one thing we've learned is especially with working with our Educators in our classrooms that this work needs to be integrated into everything that we do. It's not just an add-on to other parts of the curriculum that if it's really you a child is and how a child identify the center of

03:39 Indeed and well, you know in some ways I feel like the work has been.

03:46 Part of my professional Journey well beyond the years I've spent at Campania. The truth of the matter is no matter where you go. This work is always going to exist in an in vases that may make you feel like you're at the beginning again because it's an organization that's not spent a lot of time thinking about these issues and quite the way that we're speaking and so it's just it's it is at the core I think of what it means to to value and affirm.

04:23 Those those characteristics of children that make them who they are from a racial perspective all of that and so it's been quite the journey and I can't believe for years or years has seemingly flown by and terms that start

04:54 And I'm not only are we simultaneously working on creating ways for to be supporting children, but also supporting, you know, early childhood teachers because for many people this is a New Journey for them like a framing, you know, early childhood education and really creating an environment where teachers are able to have hard conversations and reflect and a lot of it is sort of what people are bringing themselves to the work and these conversations don't always

05:36 In the moment, we're living has you know in a lot of ways just created an enormous opening for

05:58 Accelerating the commitment to be in tune with how the ideas we have about.

06:10 Who are the children are that? We're supporting and their experiences and I just I feel like in a lot of ways the the the weight of of living. This work is just been a part of my lived experience because as a black woman, it's hard not to be aware of that reality and I

06:41 I feel like an ins in so many ways.

06:47 What we're faced with in terms of the pandemic and all that. It's an Earth around who's more affected by this remote a negative perspective. It's just it's it's really been interesting to be doing that work in this moment and have something like that catapult certainly you and the board my board into sending this in ways that again, it's been it's been very very important.

07:23 You're all the in early conversations around the pandemic and and some of the friends that I think people now her and I've said almost talking points of people are these two of like essential workers and who's most at risk in terms of you know, really negative impact Co bed and Anna sui is an organization as a field. We're recognizing how we already knew things are fragile, but when covid-19 and programs had to shut down and then, you know, could we get our teachers to come back into the classroom and we keep our classroom safe in terms of mitigation. So having all of those conversations were really

08:21 Hard because people were afraid and then that's were preparing to open up the summer then the racial Justice in a movement that took to the streets with just a whole other compounding of just like so much going on and and I think because of the workforce

08:49 In early care and education that's predominantly women of color and it just the vulnerabilities and the trauma that we lived in some ways. You know, we had a lot I had to make sure I was creating time to just have conversations and love you talk because there was it just was so intense.

09:19 Hello, it's so it's still struggle cuz I can you know, when we have our staff meetings and people are masks to wear on Zoom. You can still see in people's eyes that there's a lot of worry and anxiety. That's right. That's right, and it's coupled with

09:40 On the one hand there is concern for personal health and safety and then there's this Dynamic of but I want to be able to work. I need to be able to work and the tension between you know, those two poles. It's not easy for people to navigate and for sure that the responsibilities that I think we have is individuals charged with running organizations has to be in touch with that and to create space for that and in some ways, you know, the opportunity that we will have with this next level of work tied to the original initiative that got us involved Early Learning Equity initiative. We're going to be able to bring the beer some data supports.

10:40 As our staff move through this moment, right? That's that's really meaningful and that the idea that there are investors foundations that are interested in recognizing the need for those kinds of support and I'm willing to see resources be put to Bear behind it. It's important because if if teachers are stressed and anxious and it's a heart this work is hard under normal circumstances. You have to really be able to be fully present with the children then and so with the added stress and anxiety that that means that can erode the relationships that are so important in the classroom. And so by having this focus on mental health and well-being I think is

11:40 Such an important recognition of not only just the core of the work that we do because it is all about relationships, but the important moment in time that were in the reality of how

11:56 All of these external factors are impacting what's happening in our classrooms because the kids, you know pick up on the anxiety and and that could be a challenging behaviors can be really tough.

12:22 Yes, and then I think the broader question of

12:27 You know, we're recognizing what teachers need in and it's becoming more and more apparent certainly can see it in the news that what families need in terms of child care that it's really should not be up to individual families have to figure out what they need in order to work. And now I think there is sort of national acknowledgement that child care is not only really important for building children's brains and getting children ready for kindergarten but it's it is an economic engine. It is how families are able to work and enough. If if there is possibly Silver Lining that that maybe we'll get public investment.

13:23 In early care and education and before and after school programs in ways that you never work forces and subsidizing the field anymore, right? Because some people don't even really realize what it means to think about the workforce subsidizing the field. But in fact when you look at the kinds of supports that are in place to actually help ensure that families have access to this we know we know those supports are inadequate that they're there is a basis upon which we can and should be growing. How are providing support when it you know, when it when a family has to effectively pay College tuition on the front end of a child's place an order for families to be able to participate in the workforce and taking care of themselves is it's a it's a it's a tough proposition and

14:23 That weird we have not.

14:27 We have not had the will to to look at that for what it is and to find ways to to lessen that burden for families, you know is is very problematic and I agree. I believe the pandemic has certainly made a parent that when that sector is not operational there are going to be repercussions that we feel from an economic perspective and maybe that will be the thing that triggers policymakers certainly at the federal federal level lot of supports come through that channel to to re-evaluate the systems that we haven't placed to help families manage through that.

15:13 Yeah, and I hope to that them the value of this work is fully recognized because I think it's been viewed as Woman's Work. It's been viewed as in the responsibilities of moms to try to figure out what they're going to do while they're working and

15:34 And I Sing Because of

15:38 That because of where we are right now. We're seeing it in terms of the labor market and the impact is having on working moms. And you know, I think I heard someone say that the games that can namekians Workforce or workplace games of working moms of a generation is potentially being lost right now. That's staggering. Yes, especially when you consider the fact that wages over time have not kept pace, you know for many families right that there's been some progress for a select few but you know by and large wages for most middle middle-income families. It's been stagnant and will have had to take on working two and three jobs just to keep up. So yeah, there's there's

16:38 A lot that we need to use this moment to help challenges said reshaping when we think about coming out on the other side of this. So on these days where you can take a moment to think about the work, you know, what is it that brings you Joy or makes you feel hopeful about the future.

17:10 You know on some levels. I just have to be honest and say

17:15 Absent being hopeful, it would be very difficult to do the work. And so just that the idea of believing that things can be better. The act of being willing to be hopeful for me is essential because the reverse or the flip side of it makes it really

17:38 Can't can be very debilitating to think about right we had this weekend and opportunity. We had about 450 families that we serve this Saturday providing a range of supports grocery gift cards and

17:58 Books to a stocking stuffer for children and you know as I talked with families that came out this Saturday.

18:08 I am always inspired when I hear families talk about how much it means to have access to the things they need and that there are places in the community where people are willing to show up and be present and provide support despite, you know all that we're contending with, you know, from a public health perspective. Of course, those conversations are always there uplifting, but for me die, I like to think the active just being resolved to remain hopeful that it can be better is if it's his got me through a good many days when it's been hard, right?

18:51 Brian and I think

18:54 I think there is a certain amount of results be hopeful and resolve 2.

19:03 Lead by example and because if it were not hopeful, it's really hard for the staff that we work with to be feeling helpful and I

19:18 I feel like we need to find those moments and and really be encouraging of Hyuna because things are it is challenging. You know, we are our programs are operating at

19:35 Fraction of what they were before because of covet and the worm

19:43 Please about 10% of the families that we used to serve this time last year and our tuition revenue is down about 80% But our Personnel costs are down just 40% because of the ratios that were you have to maintain and that we will need to maintain and I know this and nothing we've already been through layoffs earlier on and dumped and I know people are worried, you know, they're worried about Economic Security for their family since themselves. And so just

20:29 I think what I have found this team really in addition to being as transparent as possible and communicating And Timely ways and just being honest the people, you know, I say stop the night like, you know, we we are operating in a pandemic. There's no way around it. And so we have to be able to manage.

21:05 Best of our ability the things that we have control over these because otherwise so that's too late for me keeping it focus on what I actually have control over and then

21:29 No, I agree with that very much. And just when you said transparent, you know, I'm being honest.

21:44 I do I do believe that.

21:48 When we are able to communicate and those ways with people that we we employ it makes a huge difference because like you we've had to execute a furlough and

22:07 You know, that's never an easy. That's not an easy act because you know the impact that is going to have and

22:22 As I as I look back and man. It's been 9 10 months. It's hard to believe but

22:31 But for sure in in cases where we've had to make those hard calls to have, you know members of our team come back and I did I have had a few people come back and just want to physically and Brace and say hey, I know this was really really hard a we appreciate everything that was done how it was done. Just that the manner in which you step through these experiences with Nina people that have been a part of your your your organization. It matters a lot as your as your as you're having to make these decisions. So honesty and transparency people really value and appreciate that.

23:20 Create an opportunity to really reassess and the firm what are core values are, you know as soon as colleagues in a partnership with families really have to

23:37 How to cut through a lot in order to make sure

23:46 In focus on what's most important because everyone is that

23:51 They can only manage so much in conversations about you know, as as word of vaccines. Do you know come on to seeing you know, there is interesting conversation about what that will mean in terms of the expectation that staff or participate in this and just you know, if there are other things that you're doing doing during this time that you feel like Borat not for this experience. You might not have realized that this is something we should definitely look at trying to maintain because it's been so it's been it's been effective in a way that we would not have known word not for having to shift how we engage and how we work and so I'm wondering if if

24:51 Wondering what's come up for you is you're thinking about that one of the things that I have.

25:02 Realized it's really important this.

25:05 Team able to delegate a little bit more and and share the responsibility in the ownership for certain aspects of our policies around health and safety like what we're doing and what were just an event. You know, who's who's details about like who's even making a call to the health department if we have you know within the community and and so having

25:48 I need more people take ownership of different aspects of keeping us. All whole in plants has been helpful.

26:00 You know what? I have started to talk about vaccines. I see nothing talking about flu shot and just making sure the people are getting the flu shot. Even if we're at least talking to their healthcare provider about it because if they haven't done in the past

26:18 And I think that the facts seem peace and who's going to who's going to be?

26:29 Getting it first and who's going to be willing to get it because I do think they're within our community there is going to be some.

26:39 Skepticism because of the Legacy around

26:45 Health Karen and experiments with in the African American community in this country. It has to be attended to in ways that you're going back still exist.

27:05 Emotional aspect of it and anxiety around that and also just the Legacy

27:19 I haven't started to talk about it with the staff, but it's it now that word of it is coming is percolating and I think because of the the nature of the work that we do, I mean one thing that I am I'm curious about is will there be brought our policy moves that require vaccines to be taken?

27:52 I wonder about that and end and what that would mean if that were to happen and

28:02 I agree because it has to do in our field teachers need to have medical exams and tests is the required tests. That one has to take a right and and we know that our Workforce has aging and there's not a great pipeline. So it does so it because of the pandemic there already people who have left the work for.

28:37 People are feeling

28:42 For instance. It is another Exodus from this field and and who who is coming up through the pipeline to enter this field such a low Paine Field and it's not recognized for the value that it does bring to Children's morning out and I think it I think the question of how will we we should probably anticipate the likelihood that it's going to happen and then the questions become how will we be prepared to respond? I mean there's a

29:42 Organizational response but there's also I brought a response because these things they they can have repercussions for the capacity that exist in the community to provide these services. And so I am thinking on the other side of the New Year this becomes, you know yet another piece to factor into the problem solving that we have to contend with the round operating through a pandemic, you know early on it was trying to figure out the different phases of opening and you know, what's the financial model to support your ability to do that without completely going under there was all the work around that and we're not completely, you know out of that mold, but certainly as as the opportunity for vaccines come on the scene and then there's the response of people perhaps buying it or not, you know.

30:42 How how can we sorta get ahead of that and think about what it would take to not sort of BB caught in a bad spot with that and I mean more so what was the field thinking about that real?

31:00 I also think that one of the things we've learned or we're learning continuing to learn. I know you're doing a measure of in person. And at one point you were doing some virtual work we're doing in person and we're also doing some virtual work because we also had other we were doing a home visiting program it so but what's been interesting is this idea that

31:25 There is some dimensions of parent engagement that feel very different and very powerful through these contacts that are with parent and child together and teacher together that we often don't have the opportunity to do in the course of a full day is people are dropping off picking up and hustle and bustle of getting in and getting out and being on time, you know for work and all of that and it has been interesting to see a bridge is being built.

32:00 Homeschool Connection in ways that I think technology has been afforded that we're going to be putting our heads together to think about what what elements of that do we want to maintain cuz that's been pretty powerful to see. Yeah. Yeah, definitely and I think that's their there will need to be some new for with the field and

32:30 And I think having parents voices.

32:33 Elevated as a result of this will be really important to getting some action around public investment enough to the police recognition that early care and education is is really a public good to that. I could just really change the whole landscape of what people do is, you know children's education start.

33:11 First prenatal actually, so that's exciting moment and

33:21 Yeah, so I think I'd also like that.

33:25 Pediatrics I think too. There's been this interesting that's been building this connection between early childhood education and M Pediatrics and what quality Early Learning

33:42 Off. The fuel to help educate parents about Early Childhood programs in high-quality programs, but I I see more intersections, I guess because of co-ed. So so I think a general

34:02 Greater understanding them acknowledge that about the importance of early care and education in terms of unit children's growth and development and just the developing brain and how it is. Like what happens in these first three years of life really does have a significant impact on the rest of their entire lives.

34:29 Throughout all of this, but have you found to be helpful to you to kind of be compressed into yourself? So I took a bike riding. I've been doing some walking early on and you know that after after while I needed something a bit more active. So I have definitely found is cold now, so I'm looking at my bike sitting over there on the other side of the door. Do you know unable to do and I'm not as you know cycling in place. I don't I don't have the resources to be doing that here, but

35:13 But bike riding was just it was just such great joy and being able to just get out there and get going and get moving and ride for you know, an hour hour and a half two hours. I love that getting cold outside. So I don't know how else to get through the winter. I don't know what it said. But that was a huge help this fall I go into the office every day. And so I still have a measure of them about my my getting out of the house but to shut it all off you just I need something. I need something. What about for you? Yeah this summer we got paddle boards and so going and we went out on that Anacostia River and and that was great and it was hot and I was something new

36:13 Getting outside and being on the water was really relaxing and and I think one of the things that I found early on taking walks as good early on in that last spring.

36:29 I would have to I would take walks down to the National Mall. I just needed to be able to see wide open space was so focused on the computer screen. I needed to just have sort of a different point of focus. And so I think being on the river also helps with that to know where you're going. So so it again like you now that is cool good and it is nice to be able to from you know, my house. I can pretty easily get to different places downtown that are just nice and open.

37:23 Yeah, well, I really enjoyed our conversation. I feel I feel fortunate that we've been able to have this time to just talk, you know about what it's been like for the past 9 months cuz it really has been unbelievable. Yes. Mike wise I was really delighted to have been invited to have a conversation and it is always good these kind of moments to contribute to what it takes to get through this right he able to talk about what's working and we're we're we're we're finding challenges and to hear how other people are sort of moving along through it. It's that's all like the sum total of how we get through how we get through. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. It's been I've been glad to have you as I can connect with

38:24 Banquet. Thank you.