John Evans and Andy Phelan

[00:06] ANDY PHELAN: Okay. My name is Andy Phelan I'm 53. And today is Tuesday, January 7, 2020. And we're at StoryCorps Atlanta. And I'm interviewing Mr. John Evans today. And I've known him as my time as a journalist for all the great work that he's done in the community, especially DeKalb.

[00:26] JOHN EVANS: My name is John Evans I'm 86 years old. Today is Tuesday, January 7th, 2020. We are located here at Story Corps Atlanta. Name of the My interview partner is Andy Pelham. And the relationship. I've known him over the years as a journalist.

[00:48] ANDY PHELAN: Well, John let's get started, because you've got a lot to talk about. And you moved here from Chicago in 1965 at the height of the civil rights movement in what can really be described as sort of a reverse of the Great Migration, moving from the north back to the South. So tell me a little bit about your time in Chicago and then really why you decided to move to Atlanta in 1965.

[01:17] JOHN EVANS: I went to Chicago because I had a couple of relatives there. My stepfather was there. And, you know, you just kind of did what you thought you needed to do at the time. And then my wife came up after we got married in Vicksburg, Mississippi. And so we proceeded to have children. And then I went to work for Corporate America and was kind of remotely involved in the. In the politics of Chicago, but mainly working at Standard Oil of Indiana at the time and the Commonwealth Edison Company, public utility. And so it was just. Just living and working and taking care of your family and planning to have children and kind of peeping in and understanding what the civil rights movement was about, but not a major role.

[02:33] ANDY PHELAN: You were not majorly involved in the civil rights movement at that time.

[02:35] JOHN EVANS: At that time.

[02:37] ANDY PHELAN: And so talk to us about. Tell us what prompted you to move to Atlanta in 65 and how that all happened.

[02:44] JOHN EVANS: Oh, my minister, United Methodist minister, and I'm United Methodist, got a job teaching at the Interdenominational Theological center in Atlanta. And so after he was there a few months, he called me and said, listen, we're trying to find a business manager for the company. And he said, well, do you think you'd have any interest? I said, well, I don't know, but I'll come down and talk with him and those involved. I came down and talked with him, and knowing my wife really wanted to get out of Chicago, and I didn't have any trouble. What I had said early on, I was going to have 10 years, which I was too short in The North. And then I was going to consider coming back south. I didn't know where. And so I decided to come to Atlanta at that time.

[03:55] ANDY PHELAN: And you went. So tell us about. You were hired and you worked at the AU Center. You worked down near Clark and Morehouse.

[04:06] JOHN EVANS: Well, that's where the Interdenominational Theological center was. It still is. It's a school that has about seven or eight denominations relating to it. And of course they go into the Masters of Ministry and so on. It was a great time. I was leaning towards and had been involved in the church anyway, and I had an opportunity to not only be the business manager, but to provide courses for some of the preachers who needed some courses in administration and finance. And so that was a nice role and had an opportunity to interact with them and. And to be a part of that life. So I stayed there 13 years and then I resigned.

[05:09] ANDY PHELAN: So board on the street is that you played pro baseball back in the day. So tell us who you played for and what was your experience in playing baseball?

[05:22] JOHN EVANS: Of course, you know, I played baseball.

[05:23] ANDY PHELAN: In college too, and I'm sorry, that was at Mississippi Valley State. Mississippi Valley State, that's right. Okay.

[05:32] JOHN EVANS: And so my experiences with baseball in college was just playing and enjoying what we did and incorporating that sport with my basketball, which was a major sport for me.

[05:50] ANDY PHELAN: You preferred basketball?

[05:52] JOHN EVANS: That's right.

[05:52] ANDY PHELAN: Okay.

[05:53] JOHN EVANS: And because my parents at the time didn't want me to do too much that was strenuous, especially like football at the time. And so they didn't encourage me to do that. Sometimes we had to do a little on the side anyway. They didn't know anything about it, but you know how that is. But I think the experience was great, especially in the seminary for me. I got a chance to be closer to the religion and et cetera, et cetera. And I think things really worked out for me while I was involved also in a civil rights movement when I came to Georgia, not full fledged, but as I saw it evolve and I was glad to participate in it. I wanted to participate in it because that was a piece of my history. That when I was in Mississippi, when Till got killed.

[07:07] ANDY PHELAN: Emmett Till.

[07:08] JOHN EVANS: Emmett Till got killed. And I had sparks of wanting to do something about that kind of stuff, you know, And I think it just evolved as I moved around and moved to the various places and wound up in Atlanta.

[07:25] ANDY PHELAN: And so let's go back to that. So you played. You went to Mississippi Valley State and then you ended up playing some basketball and baseball. But baseball was what you Kind of did on the professional level. But then coming back to you move into Atlanta at the height of the civil rights movement in 65, and you've spent your career as a fighter for civil rights and human rights. Talk about your civil rights work.

[08:04] JOHN EVANS: Well, I believe, I always believe that what blacks involved in the United States were at risk all the time and would always have to stay up with what was going wrong to try to make it better. And of course, you know, with Dr. King coming in, we had a movement going. That's what's missing now. We don't have a movement in this country. We had a movement going, and that movement was clear. Public accommodations, human rights, being able to be involved in that which was public. And so therefore I felt the real need to participate in it.

[08:53] ANDY PHELAN: And by being in Atlanta, that gave you sort of a front row seat.

[08:56] JOHN EVANS: That's right. That's right. Absolutely. And it was just a situation where you knew that we were being used and misused, black folks, and there wasn't anything strange about it. So we did everything we could to change, especially public rights. And those changes were made legally. It didn't mean that we were being misused otherwise. And so that's still happening today. But there was a move that brought me into the civil rights movement and got me involved in politics and got me involved with the naacp. And I had an opportunity to do something which was important, help people try to make their living easier, where we could change laws, where we could have an understanding of all of this and how it happened. And it's been going ever since.

[10:11] ANDY PHELAN: Well, I'll get back to that in a minute. About your work kind of moving forward in civil rights and naacp. But I'm kind of interested. You talked about Emmett Till and Were you in college?

[10:24] JOHN EVANS: I was in college.

[10:25] ANDY PHELAN: Were you at Mississippi Valley State when that happened? Take us back to that. What do you remember and what do you feel about all that?

[10:34] JOHN EVANS: We had a sense. There were several of us in school, some of us were athletes and a couple others were not. We had a sense of concerned about that, that particular case. And it just evolved in your mind, and you wanted to do everything you could to help. And I think that was the strength of it. And while we were there, we got into the demonstration mod related to the school and some things they were not doing. And we demonstrated in that school for five days. Nobody went to class, nobody did an extracurricular activities or nothing. We fed all the students at that time ourselves and made the school pardoned themselves for doing what they did. And it was simply an incident where a young fellow was taking his girlfriend to the gym and he kissed her and they wanted to put him out of school. And we demonstrated and took advantage of the fact that we didn't want that. And they didn't send him home, nor did they send any of us home for participating in that process. And that kind of just stimulated what I wanted to do, and it just carried on from there.

[12:20] ANDY PHELAN: So, going to fast forward a little bit here. You were DeKalb County, DeKalb County's first African American commissioner in 1983. Tell us about being the first and how you set the stage for public officials that came after you.

[12:38] JOHN EVANS: Well, I was comfortable when I went in because I had been with the NAACP before that in terms of helping people. I saw it as an extension of community work, especially for blacks. And it wasn't any question about how I looked at it. I looked at it like, this is the district I represent and I'm on lookout for the people and I'm not going to forget others, but this comes first. And that's the way I went through it my whole career.

[13:14] ANDY PHELAN: What district was that?

[13:15] JOHN EVANS: District three.

[13:16] ANDY PHELAN: District three.

[13:17] JOHN EVANS: You would know it when you see it now, Right, because.

[13:21] ANDY PHELAN: Is that Larry Johnson now?

[13:22] JOHN EVANS: That's right.

[13:23] ANDY PHELAN: But it's a different area.

[13:24] JOHN EVANS: Oh, yeah. They manipulated it and changed it around a little bit.

[13:28] ANDY PHELAN: But it's what we call South DeKalb.

[13:30] JOHN EVANS: That's right.

[13:31] ANDY PHELAN: And so. Well, let's touch on that and come back. Tell us a little bit about launching the DeKalb county or breathing life into the DeKalb County Branch of the NAACP in 1976 and then talk about that and then segue back to your days as a county commissioner.

[13:49] JOHN EVANS: Yeah, I was naturally, I got into it. I joined, of course, and so I got involved. And one of the, you know, there's always something to trigger something. We raised some money with the. With the VFW to send some youngsters to the Junior Olympics, I think it was in 1980. I may be off a little bit on that. We raised the money and the president of the branch decided that he wasn't involved and raised the money. And we don't want you to use it. We're going to use it here at this branch. And we said, no, we're going to spend it for what we got it for. And so there was a whole conflict between the president and members of the board. And so they fired him. And we went on and did what we had to do, and the people wanted to see me be the president. And they elected me. And it was from there we began to move in the direction we thought the branch needed to go in. And it was just good to be in a situation where you could help people. That was my whole focus all the time in the civil rights movement, Any other movement we might have had was to help people because they needed help.

[15:37] ANDY PHELAN: So you are already in the community helping people in your role as the president of the DeKalb NAACP. That's correct. And you parlayed that into being a DeKalb county commissioner. And how was that? What are your. I used to cover the DeKalb County Commission. And how was it being the only African American on an all white board?

[16:06] JOHN EVANS: Well.

[16:07] ANDY PHELAN: And was Emmanuel Maloof the. The CEO back then?

[16:10] JOHN EVANS: Oh, yeah.

[16:11] ANDY PHELAN: Talk about that a little bit.

[16:13] JOHN EVANS: Well, I think one of the most important things that could dramatize what I believed in was at that time, students from Ohio School of Medicine could not go to Grady. They could not go to Grady. And of course, I'd have to give the chairman a great deal of credit in this. He was always concerned about Grady. And when we got into this little fracas about it, here's what we did. We went to Grady and said, listen, if you don't take the students from OI School of Religion, we're going to cut your money off, pure and simple. Wasn't a big deal. We didn't have to do a whole lot. So, you know, it says that people who are sensitive about things and who can do something about it usually will do just that. And that was the issue there. But other than that, I had an office and a community at that time. I think they did the commission of one office, and that was the chairman's office. And the only time you got a chance to be in there is when you go see the chairman. So I fought and got an office on Canterlot Road.

[17:53] ANDY PHELAN: So you could meet with your constituents.

[17:55] JOHN EVANS: That's right. That's exactly right.

[17:57] ANDY PHELAN: Yeah. So let's go back to Grady for a second. So. Right. So DeKalb is one of just a small group of entities that actually give dedicated funding to Grady Hospital. And so when you say the chairman, you're talking about Manuel Malouz. And he agreed with you. And he, he. You went to. So this is in the, this is in the 80s, and they still weren't. Or they weren't allowing Morehouse School of Medicine folks to work there. You changed that. That's one of the things that you changed. What are some other things that come to Mind, during your tenure in the 80s as DeKalb County Commissioner, I mean, you've seen a lot of change. What kind of started changing back then in the 80s, do you think the.

[18:49] JOHN EVANS: Big item was contracts going to minorities, as they call it? I never agreed with it. I always said going to black folks and you deal with the others as they want to have you deal with them. And I know I stayed under a lot of pressure for taking concrete positions. Minorities had too much of a spread. I said, if the Chinese or anybody else wanted to be involved, they have to come hustle themselves. And I meant that. So. And that's why I've always said. That's why I've always said, you know, you have to look out for your folks. Yeah. You have to look out for your folks. No question about that. No question about that. You have to look out for your folks. And so I stood on that ground.

[19:58] ANDY PHELAN: Yeah.

[19:58] JOHN EVANS: I didn't care what anybody said or how they said it.

[20:04] ANDY PHELAN: Well, let's. Let's keep on that theme. You conducted an interview with the DeKalb History center in the late 1980s, when you were still a county commissioner, and you talked about all the changes that had taken place since you arrived in 65. Talk a little bit. Tell us a little bit about changes you've seen in DeKalb, in Atlanta and DeKalb since the 1980s. I mean, you were the only African American on the commission back then, and now African Americans are a majority of the commission. Talk about some of the changes you've seen since your days as a county commissioner in the 80s.

[20:39] JOHN EVANS: Well, for the most part, you know, you would think four or three blacks on the commission would have a different view of what they could do, but that has not happened. They have just taken the liberty to over talk blacks and put them in positions where they can't do much. And I think those people have come on and commissioned and they see it different. They see not necessarily taking hard positions where they can benefit blacks. They talk about being fair and understanding. Well, I believe in being fair and understanding, too, but we were so far behind in the race that we had to push harder to see that you could gain something in that race. And of course, you know, that was different, but I think it did in some sense early on, which was in the 80s, give blacks a sense of hope that some of these things could be accomplished, especially in the areas where they could make more money and be a part of the business community. But anytime you mix with the majority race and you don't have nothing you tend to take on the flavor of the majority race as it has happened right now. And we are not in any form in the development areas. For those African Americans who've made great strides, it's all been in service, service. And when you have that scheme or that pattern, all you do is you work for the system and you make money and you have to spend it with the system because we don't have anything for you to spend it on. And so it's a situation that looks good on the surface but has no depth. Has no depth. And it's just like a nice form of where we have to rely on having somewhere to work, which is also with the system. And somewhere with the system where we have to spend all the money. It's just like real good, clean looking sharecropping. That's what it is. It's a new form of sharecropping because you're dependent. I don't care how you look at it. We keep talking about exceptions to the rule where somebody's doing this, somebody's doing. That's not the rule. The rule is black folk are still at a high level and struggling to survive. And that's where it's going to be for a long while.

[24:31] ANDY PHELAN: So you kind of feel like, even though you said it looks good on paper, the makeup of the DeKalb County Commission, that there's missed opportunity in forming real and permanent wealth.

[24:44] JOHN EVANS: Oh, yeah. And we just got to do that. We have to start that. And people in this country will have to feel that the fire has been ignited and they are moving in the direction of business accomplishments. None is seen because you can't take one or two. Always you're going to have one or two that creep into the process. Nothing wrong with that. But there's no control. There's no thought of it being powerful or influential or anything because it's still dependent on whether or not you can get a majority of the system to work with them. They work with their own folk. And if you don't have your folks working with the ones in the black community who have a success story, they ain't going to succeed long. And so we just have to. We just got to talk about what the truth is and leave the fiction out. The truth is we don't have anything, including our own history. We still short on that. Most of our history has been written by white folks. So we're just out of the ballgame in many areas, some more significant than others. And until we decide that we're going to do something it ain't going to happen. Not in this country.

[26:33] ANDY PHELAN: Well, let's change courses for a second because I want to kind of take you back even to talk about your family, because you told me, you know, you grew up in Nashville and that your mom was. Did you say she was a nurse.

[26:48] JOHN EVANS: For Vanderbilt, An RN at Vanderbilt University Hospital?

[26:52] ANDY PHELAN: So talk about growing up in Nashville back in the day and talk about your mom and your dad or your family.

[26:58] JOHN EVANS: Well, you know, it was clear. We knew where our ground was. We knew we couldn't come out, we couldn't participate, couldn't go to places. But our people were pretty religious and they had great standards in those communities. Raggedy, yes, but that didn't keep them from doing that, what they had to do to train their children, their young uns, and that others in the community were also concerned about them. So you had kind of a. A good thing. And we had a great culture of our own. Wherever we got it from, we had a great culture of our own. And even if we call it in my house, fearful, if you didn't do what your parents said you supposed to do, you were more scared of what they were going to do than anything else. So it wasn't that we didn't want to do some things just like young unsthat we were scared to do because, you know, your parents didn't support that. And the same is true with them. Even the same was true then and carried on until integration came. That was a benchmark where we dropped our culture, lowered our culture and mixed in with the majority. And that's always a problem. I don't care what country you're in, that's always a problem. And so goes the country. So goes your thing if you want to keep up with what's going on in the country. And I think that's where we are now. But we had discipline. We had cleanliness. We didn't have any grass in our front yard. But, you know, they swept up that dirt every day, every day to keep it clean. We were living in shanties and they kept them clean. We didn't have any inside water. All of our water was outdoors. We had to draw the water, heat the water, take a bath, prepare food, and they did that diligently under those conditions. So, you know, that's the truth. So many of us now want to live in fiction because of what we see and what we've been able to participate in, but it has not improved that lot financially, and it has not significantly improved the conditions of our people in this country.

[30:00] ANDY PHELAN: Interesting. Let's go back to your family for a second because we were talking on the way down here, back when I was a journalist, I guess it would have been about 2006, 2007. I was writing an article and I needed to interview you. And you were at Emory Hospital, I believe, making sure everything was okay with your mom. Talk about. So your mom obviously was. She was a nurse. Was she like sweating or rock growing up?

[30:29] JOHN EVANS: She was an rn. And the reason she went into that field was because she got tired of working in white folks kitchens. Clearly she did. And she wanted something else. She was going to school to be a nurse when I was in high school.

[30:47] ANDY PHELAN: Well, and what's your mom's name?

[30:48] JOHN EVANS: Margaret.

[30:49] ANDY PHELAN: Margaret.

[30:50] JOHN EVANS: Margaret Napier at the time. And she was concerned about that. So she went to school and got her LPN and started working at Vanderbilt University Hospital. She worked there for 32 years.

[31:13] ANDY PHELAN: Wow.

[31:13] JOHN EVANS: She didn't want nothing else. That's what she wanted and that's what she stayed in until she passed.

[31:22] ANDY PHELAN: All right, Listen, you. Your 87th birthday is coming up, January 29th. What are the most important lessons you've learned in life, do you think? What are some of the most important lessons you can look back on?

[31:36] JOHN EVANS: To tell the truth. Most important thing. And to be concerned about one's family and people in general in terms of what you could do to help them. I think that sounds pretty good for me, and I'm still the same way right now.

[32:03] ANDY PHELAN: All right, for your great, great, great grandchildren listening to this interview many years from now, is there any wisdom you'd want to pass on to them? What would you want them to know?

[32:19] JOHN EVANS: I want them to know where they came from and the conditions they came under and the history of this country in terms of their being treated by the majority race and to get themselves educated and understand what they need to be doing in the future to improve a lot of black people, period.

[32:51] ANDY PHELAN: Do you have grandchildren? You do?

[32:54] JOHN EVANS: Good, great grandchildren.

[32:56] ANDY PHELAN: How many children do you have and what are their names?

[32:58] JOHN EVANS: I have three. Malia, Harvey and Dawa.

[33:08] ANDY PHELAN: And do they, Are they here in Atlanta?

[33:10] JOHN EVANS: Uh huh. All three? Well, my son's over in Augusta. He's a disabled veteran in rehab over there now. But everybody else is in Atlanta, our metro, we had five grandchildren by one daughter.

[33:33] ANDY PHELAN: Okay, wow.

[33:35] JOHN EVANS: And we got two great grandchildren by one of the oldest daughter, grandchild.

[33:43] ANDY PHELAN: That sounds like a nice family. You did good. That sounds like a nice family.

[33:47] JOHN EVANS: Well, it's a growing family because in my family, everybody died that we even know about. I Don't have anybody over here.

[33:57] ANDY PHELAN: No brothers and sisters, you mean?

[33:59] JOHN EVANS: Nothing.

[34:00] ANDY PHELAN: Huh?

[34:01] JOHN EVANS: Nothing.

[34:02] ANDY PHELAN: Did you have brothers and sisters growing up? You're the only child.

[34:06] JOHN EVANS: Nobody in the family wanted over two. And all of a sudden, everybody's gone. No cousins, no nothing. And I was the Lone Ranger. And keeping the family going.

[34:23] ANDY PHELAN: That's good. You did good. Well, on that Note, about your 87th birthday coming up, how would you like to be remembered? What would you like people to remember you for?

[34:35] JOHN EVANS: Well, there's one thing. We started having birthday parties in 1981, and we've had one ever since. Even when I was in the clinker, we had a part.

[34:55] ANDY PHELAN: Is that right? Yeah.

[34:57] JOHN EVANS: And, you know, we ought to all be thankful for another year that we're alive. Just simple and basic. You don't have to spend a whole lot of money and this, that and the other. But the fact that you are aware of it and you want to give thanks for another year of life and continued prosperity.

[35:25] ANDY PHELAN: So you're kind of the. You're progenitor. You're sort of. You just said, you know, it's coming down to your family. So you have a birthday party every year for you every year, and people gather to pay homage to you because you're sort of the Grand Poobah of the Evans clan.

[35:44] JOHN EVANS: That's right.

[35:45] ANDY PHELAN: How does that make you feel when everyone comes together, make you feel good.

[35:49] JOHN EVANS: Let you know that you're keeping the name alive and to share as much information with it as you can so they'll have a better life as they move on in the future.

[36:06] ANDY PHELAN: Where's the party this year?

[36:09] JOHN EVANS: Piccadilly, South Dakota.

[36:11] ANDY PHELAN: Okay. South DeKalb Mall. Okay.

[36:14] JOHN EVANS: On the 25th of January from 6 until 8.

[36:19] ANDY PHELAN: Okay. I don't think this interview will be out before then, so people, folks won't be flooding your birthday, but that sounds pretty nice. How many folk do you think will gather for that?

[36:29] JOHN EVANS: Well, you know, they don't have a big place. It was full last time we had it there last time it was full. People standing up and some were eating in a regular side, you know, it's just a fun time. It's just a fun time. And I think we all need to consider having fun at some time or another and advocating something. And, of course, what we're advocating is the future.

[37:02] ANDY PHELAN: Well, speaking of which, my next question, actually, perhaps as we get to the end here, what is your dream for the future of DeKalb? What is your dream for the future for African Americans in this country? What are your dreams for the future.

[37:17] JOHN EVANS: We'Ve got to make it as fair as we possibly can given the circumstances that we live under. There's two things going to always be with us, race and politics. You can't stop it under the condition that we live in this country. So we've got to get as much out of that as we can for ourselves and we've got to understand what it takes to really get yourself known in this country, known as an entity in this country. And we have to want to be like that. So far we have not. And I would want to make sure that people understood that so that we'd be working on it. It ain't something people going to hand you. I don't care what you think. They're not going to do that. They're not going to hand you nothing. You're going to have to make it yourself.

[38:21] ANDY PHELAN: So the future of true equality, as equal as we can be as human beings. Real empowerment, permanent, lasting wealth. Public Transit down the I20 corridor. MARTA down the I20 corridor.

[38:39] JOHN EVANS: Yeah, they talking about setting on up speed trains up in Charlotte. So you know, we want to be a part of it, right? We want to be a part everywhere. And that's, and that's the basis for maintaining communities. See if you running, white folks running, you running and everybody's running, communities are going to get lousy for the most part because they never stay put. And that's a situation that causes for destruction. Seriously. And you know, I've got another term. We're morally and spiritually bankrupt in this country right now. Everything is do what you think is good for you, not what's best for the country. And that's a dangerous sign.

[39:51] ANDY PHELAN: Do you have any hope that we can get beyond just the celebration of the self and be more of what Dr. King called the beloved community?

[40:01] JOHN EVANS: Well, let me tell you, based on my religion, you know that there have been plenty of powers in this world. You've had the Romans, the Greeks, Great Britain, Genghis Khan and the like all in power at one time or another. So the question comes, how long will we have power in this country?

[40:40] ANDY PHELAN: Well said, my friend. Well, I just want to. I think we're kind of coming to the end of our time. I just want to thank you for doing this and joining me because I think I could talk to you for 10 story core sessions and we still wouldn't cover it all. But I want to thank you for coming in here and giving us your thoughts. You're a historic figure and we really appreciate you coming in and doing this today.

[41:08] JOHN EVANS: Thank you.