John Murchison and Mohamed Eldebek

[00:07] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: My name is Mohammed Eldebek I am 37 years old. Today is September 27, 2022. I am here in Brooklyn sitting with John Murchison, and he is a fellow musician. Hello, John.

[00:25] JOHN MURCHISON: Hey, Mo. My name is John Murchison. I'm 35 today. It is still September 27 to 2022 in Brooklyn hanging out with Mo Eldebek who's my friend.

[00:43] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: How are you?

[00:45] JOHN MURCHISON: I'm doing good.

[00:46] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: I'm doing good, too. So I know you've been busy lately with work and music, but, you know, there's, I always have this question. What is your earliest memory of music? And. Yeah, like, what inspired you to play music?

[01:06] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah, for me, music, it took me a longer path to get to arabic music, but growing up, my dad is a musician, actually. Did you also hang out with my dad in China?

[01:20] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: I think Hadi did.

[01:21] JOHN MURCHISON: Hadi did? Okay. I was wondering if you were with him or nothing. So my dad has played music for, you know.

[01:28] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: What does he play?

[01:29] JOHN MURCHISON: He plays guitar and he sings also.

[01:32] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Have you ever jammed with him or performed?

[01:34] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah, we've performed and played gigs and, but growing up, you know, he would sit around and play guitar, and.

[01:44] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: We.

[01:45] JOHN MURCHISON: Had a lot of music on while we were playing or while we were growing up. There was always music on the stereo and on in the cardinal.

[01:53] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: So was he the influence that you pursued music or did he have.

[01:58] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah, I mean, I think so. And, like, I also, like, he and his friends who he, many of his friends are musicians also. And every year when I, when we were growing up, he would, they would all get together for a long weekend.

[02:17] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Nice.

[02:17] JOHN MURCHISON: They call it the musicale. And they would just, like, play all day and all night with, like, you know, there'd be like 20 people there, 20 musicians, and, and you grew up around that, and they'd, you know, they play a lot of Grateful Dead and old bluegrass music and old country tunes, and they play all day, and it'd just be like this long part weekend of partying and music, and that was like, you know, and I know all his friends, kids, as we were all growing up together, so it was like a big extra extended family that was all centered around music. So music was always pretty central growing up.

[02:53] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: That's very nice. And this was in New York?

[02:56] JOHN MURCHISON: This was in Connecticut.

[02:57] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Oh, cool.

[02:58] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah. Although we would travel all over the east coast to different, you know, they'd have it, they'd all take turns hosting the big weekend.

[03:05] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Wow, that's so nice. Yeah, that's so cool.

[03:10] JOHN MURCHISON: And then when I was young, I played a couple instruments when I was younger, like violin and piano. And then when I got to high school, my brother is two years older than me and we shared a cd collection and a stereo. And then in high school, I quit violin and piano to start playing bass in a rock band with my brother.

[03:34] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Why bass? Was there any reason?

[03:37] JOHN MURCHISON: Honestly, he was like, I'm going to play bass. And I was like, I'm going to play guitar because I just wanted to play in a band with him because I was copying him all the time. And then like a week later, he was like, actually, I'm gonna play guitar. And I was like, okay, I'll play bass. And boy, am I glad.

[03:53] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Yeah, that's so nice. Do you still practice, like, violin? Do you remember, like violin? Like how to.

[03:59] JOHN MURCHISON: I've actually, in the last, like six, I don't know, the last year or so, I started messing around with violin again in the arabic tuning now.

[04:07] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Nice. That's so cool. And just you and your brother that play music or. And your dad, so.

[04:13] JOHN MURCHISON: And my dad and my brother doesn't even really play anymore, so it's really just me, me and my dad.

[04:19] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: That's nice. That's very nice.

[04:23] JOHN MURCHISON: Do you come from a musical family too? I know it's a musical brother duo.

[04:27] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Yeah, musical family in the sense that there is a lot of appreciation of music and for music and art. My dad, well, I know that my dad and my mom, they used to sing together when, like, they were invited to like our wedding when they were young or to hang out with their friends. And I grew up around listening music, like in the morning, listening to Fairus, you know, it's like a morning coffee for us, but for the ears, you know. So Fayruz was always like, you hear it around the house or my dad and his memory about when he was younger, listening to egyptian singers from 1950, 1960 and around, like, you know, teenagers years. I discovered Ziad, the son of Feyrez. And we were like playing it like constantly, constantly, whether we studying or we hanging out with friends, friends in the background. So, yeah, I wouldn't say I had the luxury to play an instrument when I was young, you know, Lebanon and the political complication of it. So you're most focused on surviving in day to day tasks, but, and to be honest with you, I would never imagine I'll be playing music or performing on a stage. Growing up, you know, I had no clue or no vision about that, like me on stage or playing. And when I was here, when Hadi. So I came before Hadi two to, I think, two years or three years before him came to New York.

[06:21] JOHN MURCHISON: What year was that?

[06:22] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: 2002. And I think he came in 2005. So when I came to New York, Hadi was still back home in Lebanon, and he picked up the oud. He picked up the that my brother left. My older brother, he bought awood and he wanted to practice oud. But my old brother got a job and he left Lebanon. And he left the in Lebanon. So Hadi was the last one of us, of our siblings who stayed back, and he picked up that. Oh, he was like, all right. I mean, I'm bored of. None of my siblings are around. Let me play oud So my dad, he had a friend and he told him, yeah, you know, let me help you learn how to play oud So when he came back or came to New York, he started playing, you know, and he started to have musical friends playing music, and they start to come over, and one of them was Ramsey I think you know him. Yeah, Ramzi So I remember in 2010, Ramzi was over with a bunch of, you know, friends who were jamming in the house. And I always had love for percussion and drums and, like, bass, anything that in the background, I would listen to that. Like, this is the first thing that catched my ear. And I'm sitting next to Ramsey and I'm just looking at him, and this is a cool instrument. He was like, yeah, here, here, take this one.

[07:53] JOHN MURCHISON: Start playing.

[07:54] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: I don't know. I'll show you how. So he started teaching me, and he said, like, you have good rhythm and you have good fingers, and I would like to learn, like, yeah, come over to Queens. I'll teach you. For real? Yeah, yeah, of course. So I start, like, every week, every weekend, I will just go to Queens. And I sat with him for, like, 2 hours, 3 hours, just like, he's showing me how to play. And one, I think in 2011. So this is a year before my first performance, 2011, Ramsey and hadi was like, all right, come. You're gonna join us on a stage. What? Me performing? You know, like, and my heart was beating, you know, stage frighten. So, yeah. And after that, I started slowly picking up other percussion instruments, like the Rick, the frame drum. And then we start playing more and more. And two years ago, I went and I bought a buzzook from Lebanon. So I slowly, I'm trying to make some melody slowly on that song, but, yeah, mandy, I believe there is an artist in each one of us who hasn't been discovered yet, you know, in every. Every person. Yeah. That's why. That's my journey with music, and it has changed me, you know, and on a very deep level, like emotionally, spiritually. You know, when you, when you meet musicians, they really, like, share with you ideas and philosophy that you wouldn't hear if you haven't been around that kind of atmosphere or environment. And, yeah, and each, each time we, we meet the new musicians, like, there is a. Some philosophy shared. I appreciate that part of that culture.

[10:06] JOHN MURCHISON: I feel that way thinking about a philosophy shared or connecting with other musicians. I feel like this happens personally, but also on stage. I feel like I occasionally notice this where there's a maybe someone. Well, this happened with several people when I went to Lebanon last summer.

[10:36] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Oh, you went to Lebanon?

[10:37] JOHN MURCHISON: Oh, yeah. I was in Beirut for one month last summer.

[10:40] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: How was it?

[10:41] JOHN MURCHISON: It was amazing. Yeah, it was with one beat. As an organization, they put together musical residency programs and tours and things.

[10:51] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Nice.

[10:52] JOHN MURCHISON: So it was great. And there was like two Americans and ten, mostly lebanese, but Beirut local musicians, and we just hung out and played and recorded and stuff.

[11:04] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: How did you find the music culture there compared to here?

[11:08] JOHN MURCHISON: And it was interesting. I also, in New York, I'm mostly playing mostly more traditional maqam related arabic music and, like, some more poppy stuff and some jazz and, you know, some other stuff. But, but for arabic music, I think of it as, like, mostly traditional and then some other stuff. And over there, it was a big mix. Since it was my first time in the middle. I mean, I had been to Morocco, so this was really the first time I'd been in the Middle east. And after having been playing arabic music for, like, a long time and really dedicating a lot of time to it. And I was like, partly, I was like, I was a little nervous at first. I was like, I'm gonna show it with a canoe and play with these people who've been born into the tradition. But I actually was really reaffirming to, I just felt like totally, as soon as we started playing, I was like, oh, I feel at home musically with these people. But then it was also interesting. Like, the majority of the musicians that I met there were not focused on traditional music. It was just like, like, of course, like any, you go to a new city and it has a cool, unique music scene with different, you know, and there's some people doing more experimental stuff and there's some people who really just want to play jazz and there's something, you know, it's really, it was great. It was a great mix of people and.

[12:42] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Yeah, did you get to perform for, like, an audience.

[12:46] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah, we performed. Did several performances. Well, we did. I played a few times at Metro.

[12:54] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Yeah, yeah, Metro Beirut.

[12:55] JOHN MURCHISON: And then there's a newer place called Barzakh, which is like. It's like, it's like on Humra Street, a couple blocks away and across the street and it's like upstairs. It's like a library, used library slash cafe slash music venue place. So we did some things there. I think it's pretty new.

[13:14] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Nice.

[13:16] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah, it was amazing.

[13:18] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Nice. Well, you know, I read something while ago. It says, culture to society is what memory to an individual.

[13:34] JOHN MURCHISON: Hmm.

[13:35] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: You know?

[13:36] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah.

[13:36] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: And it's so true. Like, I grew up listening more to traditional stuff, you know, in the house. I mean, there was a phase where I listened also to pop music, lebanese 1990s kind of music, egyptian music.

[13:52] JOHN MURCHISON: I've been listening to a lot of nineties, you know, and I love egyptian, egyptian pop from the nineties in the last year.

[13:58] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: They were amazing, man. Even the Benz one compared to the one now. I feel like I. It's very hard for me. Like, I'm trying to be open, but I'm just not kind of, like, connecting with this type music. I don't. I don't know why.

[14:15] JOHN MURCHISON: Not connecting with. With which music.

[14:16] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: But, like, today's music, like, you know, the younger generation, some of them are nice, but it's different. Like, in the nineties, you were like, oh, this is, this. Like, there's so many variety and you could pick and you would enjoy them all. Now, like you said, experimental, the type of the lyrics. So it's just, you know, I'm. I feel like I am behind or I haven't been experiencing what's really been playing now around the new generation. I don't know if you feel the same way.

[14:50] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah, I mean, I think that I find that if I'm, like, walking around listening on headphones to music or something, I'm listening to older music. But I do enjoy some more modern music and, like, experimental music, but usually live. Like, I don't really listen to any, like, avant garde music on my own time, but I enjoy going out to see it live because it feels like it's. I don't know, it's. It's part of the experience for me.

[15:20] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: I hear you.

[15:22] JOHN MURCHISON: And I used to play some more. I mean, before I found arabic music, I was doing mostly jazz and some experimental stuff also.

[15:30] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: It's jazz. Like, would you call it home for you?

[15:35] JOHN MURCHISON: I would have in some way, because it's like, like further back in my. In my musical education or, you know, self education, I spent years on that before I found arabic music. But as far as where I feel comfortable and, like, I'm expressing myself, I think middle eastern and arabic music and other middle eastern music, I feel a little more at home now.

[16:04] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: It's amazing, like, how, like, you, your culture, you grew up. I don't think you grew up listening to arabic music. No, no.

[16:11] JOHN MURCHISON: I mean, I didn't hear anything, any arabic music until, like, 2013, so.

[16:18] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: And you found yourself, like, you instantly fell in love or how did it happen?

[16:22] JOHN MURCHISON: Well, I went to Morocco for, like, a couple weeks in early 2013 and was with a group of people, and we took lessons with local musicians for two weeks. And it was mostly percussion. There was a lot of bendir stuff and, like, a little ginawa and aisawa. And so when I came back, I eventually was like, oh, that was really cool. I want to keep learning. So I started taking Darbuka lessons with Rami. Rami, Alaska.

[16:54] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Yeah, I know Rami.

[16:55] JOHN MURCHISON: And then eventually I was like, oh, I think I really like this music. I should probably learn how to do it on my main instrument. So I asked Rami, like, hey, who should I take lessons to lessons with to learn macomb? And he pointed me to Sammy abu shumes.

[17:08] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Nice.

[17:09] JOHN MURCHISON: So that was, like, nice the way. But I remember, like, when I was in Morocco, I bought, like, a dozen random cds with Arabic on them. I didn't know what they. You know, I couldn't read Arabic then. I just was like, whatever. And one was an Umm Kulthum There was a Warda CD. There was a najat CD. I remember really digging the najat.

[17:30] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Nice.

[17:31] JOHN MURCHISON: But I think at the time when I put that on the Umm Kulthum cd, I was like, ah, this is a little slow, because I wasn't used to really taking my time listening for long periods to the same extent that I am now.

[17:44] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: That's amazing.

[17:45] JOHN MURCHISON: So it's not like I heard Uncle Thun was like, oh, my God. It was a little more gradual than that. Yeah. I mean, after a couple years, I was hooked.

[17:55] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: When you say home, like, now arabic music is home. Like, what. What is that home element? Like, what is it?

[18:02] JOHN MURCHISON: Well, that's interesting. Well, I think, like, musical home. Musical home is, like, where I feel comfortable and where I feel like I'm expressing myself, where I feel like I can be, like, solid and adequate and creative and, like, comfortable enough to be creative.

[18:27] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Expressing yourself, that's a key word as a musician. You want to express yourself, you're expressing your emotion and feelings and you feel that that music tradition is bringing you that expression.

[18:41] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah. And I mean, and I still do with jazzenhe when I'm, like, in practice and I've been playing jazz and I still hear, I mean, sometimes I walk around and I hear myself, like, putting little melodies over jazz changes because I just ingrained, I don't know, I still feel fairly at home with jazz, but, yeah, I just feel like it's like, what music? Are you able to kind of forget what's happening and only think about the music while you're playing it?

[19:11] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Just that kind of like, nice, man, that's so cool. Like, maybe you're in different life. You had, you were from the Middle east, you were an Arab. Who knows? Now you are. That memory is just unlocking.

[19:28] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah. Hmm. Just looking at some questions here. Well, one thing I'm thinking about, well, you said that, like, you're, like, performing a lot these days, and, like, years ago, you would never have imagined you performing. Do you have, like, goals about what you'd like to be doing musically or not musically, I guess, but it seems like music is such a big part of your life. Do you have goals when you look at the future? What you.

[20:13] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Sure, yeah.

[20:14] JOHN MURCHISON: Like, or imagine or, you know, like.

[20:17] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: That conversations always come happening. Me and Hadi, you know, he's like, you say duo, but one, one of the things that we like to about Ziad Rahbani, he is one of our kind of, like a reference and as a musical enigma, you know, or his phenomena that he made music that doesn't age, you know, like, and this is so powerful. Like, you can listen to this music and what I mean, not just by, like, the sound of it. I'm talking about, like, the lyrics, the meaning, the message. You listen, like, he made it like 30 years ago. You listen to it now and you'll be like, oh, my God, he's talking about what's happening now. And that was written 30 years ago and that's like, so powerful. And, like, we want to do something like, all right, man. Like, 30 years from now, another generation will listen to it and be like, okay, I connect with this now. I can relate to it. So, yeah, musically, this is one thing, one of the goals. Like, you want to create something can really doesn't age. And it's not easy. We call it in Arabic, which just means the easy but hard to attain. It's like, you know, it's so easy to make, but when you listen to it, it sounds so smooth and simple, but when you want to make it, it's just, like, so complicated and hard, you know? So I think that guy, he really accomplished how to create stuff like that.

[22:08] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah.

[22:09] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: And being involved, not just in, like, in performing on stage, because when I was in China, like, some. I don't know if you feel this sometime when we were in China, and this is really a story that comes to my mind when I'm performing for, like, a long time. And then suddenly I remember this shaman. He's also a musician or ex shaman in China. He had this motel that we were staying in, and he has his own group of musicians, and on the first floor, there was really this cozy stage that around, like, you know, nighttime, multiple bands will come and perform, and he would perform with his own band. We became really close with this shaman, and we went back to New York, and a year later, we went back again to the same motel, but he wasn't performing. So we were like, what's happened? Like, from that time till now, from last year to now, he said, like, he. He was tired to stand on stage and feel like he has to perform for a transaction, you know, or like, to please people. He want to play music just for himself and with his friends to enjoy it or to transcend or to feel that spirituality, connection. So, yeah, like, I. Do you feel like that sometimes when you are performing, you feel like, you know, like it's a job. Like, I am on a job right now. What? How? Like, you want to take a break from playing? Does it make you want to, like, step away?

[23:58] JOHN MURCHISON: Um, no. I mean, I never want to take a break from playing because I find when I have free time, I still end up playing.

[24:06] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Not playing. Performing, like performing.

[24:09] JOHN MURCHISON: You know, I. You know, at times, I. Yeah, I mean, yes and no. There's. I mean, it's. That's an interesting thing, is, as a musician, you know, if you're just making all your money playing music, you end up having to do gigs that are a little more about the money. And, like, maybe you don't really, really feel like, you know, traveling this far to go to this place to play music. You're like, only you're like, okay, you know, you're not that excited to play it.

[24:47] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Absolutely.

[24:48] JOHN MURCHISON: I feel lucky that I'm no longer playing gigs, playing, you know, when I was younger, I was playing, you know, any gig except paid, but I'm mostly almost completely playing music I like. But sometimes it's like, oh, this gig is a little more of a chore than it is a fun gig. So there's that side. And, like, sometimes you get so busy trying to make enough money to make a living in New York that you don't. I've heard musicians lament that they no longer have time for. Musicians generally only play together at gigs or at rehearsals. For gigs, you don't have as much time to just get together and jam and play and have fun. So I feel like at times it's like, yeah, maybe if I get to be a point when I'm like, really? I don't know. Sometimes I think, like, oh, if I could just say no or have the forethought to say no to certain things, I would give myself a little more free time to, like, do personal music things or do casual music things with Ren. But on the other hand, you know, especially for, like, tarab music, the audience is, like, the right audience is, like, a key part to having a great musical experience.

[26:08] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Absolutely.

[26:08] JOHN MURCHISON: So in that way, like, I don't want to break from performing in general. I just want to, like, if anything, like, be better at picking and choosing which performances I want to do and which ones I want to say no to, even if they have lots of positives.

[26:24] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Yeah, it's nice to have that say, like, no, I don't want to play for this audience. Yeah, well, it's hard and clicking on their plate, you know, that's something I like, a background. Like, no one is paying attention to the music you're playing. But sometimes I understand, like, you need to survive. You know, you need to figure the bills, so you have to take these kind of gigs.

[26:52] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah, sometimes I've talked to people who will ask me about what my life as a musician is. People who have, like, a steady. Like, they work on five days a week on weekdays, and they'll be like, oh, like, what is yours? Like, what is your life and your schedule? Like, and at first, I, you know, I want to say, or I often. I think two ways. One way is I set my own schedule. I can do whatever I want, freedom. But actually, I'm kind of at the mercy of, like, when people ask me to do things, because I don't really. I mean, I've done. I've worked. I've done some stuff as a bandleader, but I'm not really booking John Murchison gigs. You know, I usually just kind of wait for. I, like, help organize events and get. And have other bands play the events. But, you know, I mostly waiting for people to ask me to play. So I'm kind of at the mercy of other people's schedules.

[27:53] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: And this is, like, what most people don't understand about being a musician. It's just like, you're not just a performer, a composer. You're a businessman. You are a marketing manager. You are now social media also, like, influencer.

[28:10] JOHN MURCHISON: I don't know what you want to know.

[28:12] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: You are, like, six things at the same time, you know, just trying to make it so. It's a lot of work. I hear you, man. And I think it changed, you know, the definition of a musician. Usually you come and you just play. Back in the days now you have to do all these things together. Do you feel like pre Covid, post Covid? Has it changed the, like, what a musician has to do to survive now? Well, an artist in a general sense, yeah.

[28:49] JOHN MURCHISON: I mean, I think when Covid was really at its peak or, you know, it's like, you know, it's beginning to feel now, like, a little more. I know it's not post Covid, but it's like, you know, music scene is back, right.

[29:06] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Your future is back.

[29:07] JOHN MURCHISON: I feel as the last few months have been as busy as 2019, I've been really busy. So things feel pretty back to me. So there were, you know, people had to do things differently, especially over the course of the last couple years. The things that have changed for me are what I think has kinds of things that have changed for many people, artists or not, is a re evaluating of priorities and how you want to spend your time and what your time is worth. Like, I'm happy. A lot of venues in Brooklyn, as you know, they, like, maybe because of whatever way they're built or the way they're set up or the room is set up, they don't charge at the door. Everyone comes in, and then partway through the set, someone comes around and says, hi, we're. We'd like to make a highly suggested donation for $10 or something. And now everyone who asked for $10.02 years ago, they're asking for 15 or 20 now. So that's good.

[30:15] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: That's very good. Especially with the inflation and everything that's happening.

[30:18] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah, and that. So I was. Even before inflation was becoming a, you know, a big, like, pretty much as soon as, like, the gradual openings, like a place like barbette's, they couldn't pack their back room and get $10 from everyone. So they said, okay, it's $25 per person, and we're only allowing, like, 20 people, and we're gonna do two sets, and they're seated and ticketed. They did, like, a really ticketed thing, and then when they started opening up the back room completely, they're like, oh, we're keeping that up. We're keeping the price up to 1520. Suggestions?

[30:51] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: It's not coming down.

[30:52] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah, because frankly, it was a little frustrating that $10 was the regular price because it's pretty low and hard to make enough money that way.

[31:02] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Hopefully we'll reach the 30.

[31:05] JOHN MURCHISON: We just need one more pandemic.

[31:08] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Another catastrophe. That's so funny. Has your audience, when you used to play for, like, I feel sometime that the audience change from one place to another. But, like, you have this kind of very different spectrum of audience. You've started with jazz. Now we are arabic music and you're more Arabs. How that. How is that feels like, how did that feel?

[31:41] JOHN MURCHISON: Hmm. Well, the change is really gradual. I mean, I guess I still play different varieties of music, so I do do like, I still do quite a bit of theater.

[31:51] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Right.

[31:52] JOHN MURCHISON: And that's a different vibe.

[31:53] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: But the audience feel like, did it change? Did it feel that it's so different to read or to understand?

[32:03] JOHN MURCHISON: I haven't really thought about that much. I feel like the. I feel like when I'm playing a different kind of music, I'm coming at the audience with such a different thing that it's hard to ascribe the difference to the audience or the musical atmosphere.

[32:24] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Well, they are connecting, but sometimes it's. Sometimes you have to look. I mean, we always look at the audience to see, like, how they are reacting to the music. Right. I remember when I was in China, we were performing in Shanghaiden, and we were playing, but there was no, like, kind of reaction from the audience to understand, like, are they happy? Did I enjoy the music? Like, what's going on here? And we were like, we cannot read the audience. You know, they are listening to different music, and, you know, we are coming to a different culture that we don't know their, you know, the cues or, like, how they react. So our manager was chinese, and she. We spoke to her, like, are they enjoying she? Oh, my God. They loving it, really, like, and then at the end of the performance, like, one member of the audience, he stood up and he shouted, chinese song. He wanted to hear a chinese song. And we were lucky because at that trip, we were engaged in a musical workshop with the chinese musician, and she taught us how to sing one chinese song. And it took us, like, two weeks to just, like, make the sound and say the lyrics. And it's kind of, like folkloric song. When we started singing it in Chinese. The audience went crazy. This is the first time I was like, oh, my God. Now how. This is how they, they feel, but it's our showing it, so. Yeah, like, it's, it's, it's different to, from, from one culture, another. Like, the audience. I know our friend Navid, you know, he's a violinist. He was like, it's very rude to clap when, like, when the, when you finish playing music on stage. You know, like, if it's too, like, the music is so powerful. Like, you just kind of sit still, listen. I know, it's like. And he was like, he doesn't disagree with this because you have to show your emotion. That's a different comparing it to the Arabic and music. But like, when you hear the old song from Umm Kulthum or Abd al Khalim, like, in the audience, they know, they shouting and clapping and going crazy.

[34:54] JOHN MURCHISON: My favorite are recordings of Umm Kulthum where it appears to me like she finishes a section, she's about to go the next, and they, they keep clapping until she starts over the one before again.

[35:08] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: And you're like, yeah, yeah, exactly. That's ecstasy. They want more.

[35:12] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah. I mean, I think that having come from jazz, I think there also is a culture in jazz to, like, clap after a good solo. So there's a little bit not quite to the. You don't get maybe as much of an extent of a dynamic participating audience as you do in arabic music, but there's a little bit of it there still.

[35:33] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: So that's really nice.

[35:36] JOHN MURCHISON: By the way, where in China were you most of the time? And do you remember, like, what spot in Shanghai you were playing?

[35:42] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: National Museum of Shanghai. That was one of them. And we performed in the egg. I don't know if you know that.

[35:52] JOHN MURCHISON: Oh, yeah.

[35:52] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Form in the actuarial in Beijing. That was in Beijing. We perform, like, in really these, you know, what do you call underground spots where you see, like, so many different musicians from different culture. That was nice, too. It's, yeah, like, the music, like, my trip as a musician to China really changed me in very different aspects. You know, rethinking your choices in life, rethinking your spirituality. So, yeah, that this is like the power of music and or art, you know, because if I haven't been exposed to art, I would probably have been fixated in my own traditional upbringing that they won't be challenged. But when you go, when you travel, you get to, you know, some other people challenge these ideas and thoughts and even, like, inside the same band, you know, like, each one of us has his own kind of view, but it's not too distant still, like, in the same kind of, you know, Cosmo. So, yeah, it's. It's. No, I'm great. Very grateful to that journey, and I'm still learning my. I feel like my. My musical or my technical practice is not on very high steep, but it's going slower, you know, than what I want it to be. But it's still a progress. I feel there is a progress, but because I now have a full time job, too, as a teacher.

[37:51] JOHN MURCHISON: Oh, yeah. You know, how do you both work in the same school?

[37:55] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: No, I work in a different school in Bay Ridge. Lucky that. It's not far from. The commute is really good. It's really short, so. But, yeah, like, it's different, you know, now you are. You have a full time job, and then you still want to do music full time. It's crazy. It's so much, but it's working so far. Cannot complain. There's always a lot to do. And you want to collaborate with so many different artists and with different, you know, performing arts field, like theater, like you said, I with dance, with acting, you know, different disciplines, and you want to include music in it. So, so much to work with.

[38:51] JOHN MURCHISON: Excuse me, is there a question that.

[38:54] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: You'D like to wrap up with? Let me see.

[39:14] JOHN MURCHISON: I'm trying to think of a wrap up question that doesn't start another, like, 20 minutes conversation. You know.

[39:28] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: They all, like deep questions. Oh, this is a good one. What was your first encounter with remix art?

[39:42] JOHN MURCHISON: Oh, I mean, I just met. Well, I think I met. I'm not sure if I had met Hatim around town a bit, but in the last. But I actually, like, really met him and had, like, conversations with him, like, kind of for the first time in the last couple months. And all the sudden, like, I think, I don't know if we'd, like, seen each other or met each other before that, but all of a sudden, we met and we saw each other and chatted at, like, three events within one week. And we're like, oh, cool, new friend. And then that's kind of the beginning. And then he was like, oh, well, we should chat sometime. And I think so when I. When we actually chatted on the phone and he explained more about the organization with me, it was partly a conversation with John the musician and partly a conversation with John, you know, co founder of Brooklyn McCom, because of the, you know, similarities, or at least, you know, operating in somewhat similar arenas and I think Brooklyn McComb is much is probably going to be a co sponsor on the event in November. So, yeah, it's cool. I feel like I'm starting to learn it's great to be connected with another cool, interesting, Middle eastern, music focused, community focused organization in Brooklyn. It's awesome.

[41:16] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: That's nice. Yeah, he's great. I've known him for. For like six years. Five. Yeah. And it's always something new. You learn about Hatim. This is something I can tell you, but, yeah, him and his brother are really very beautiful souls. And what I like about him, they are, they both have this kind of.

[41:41] JOHN MURCHISON: Amino. Is amino. Yeah, I played with him, like, on like a couple funny gigs years ago.

[41:50] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Yeah, they have this fairness, you know, kind of like, how can we bring fairness to music, musicians and the economy of musicians and, you know, like, how can. And we support them without taking advantage of their art. So I like that about him and his brother. Yeah, they always have that, you know, kind of ethical value.

[42:26] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah, it feels. Everything feels really good going. It's like I still feel like I only loosely know what we're aiming for and what we're going to accomplish through these collaborations, but I feel really confident.

[42:42] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Yeah, of course. And they're gonna have fun.

[42:45] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah. And partly out of Hatim, setting a great tone.

[42:49] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Yes.

[42:49] JOHN MURCHISON: And just the kind of fairness and togetherness.

[42:53] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Exactly.

[42:54] JOHN MURCHISON: I'm excited.

[42:56] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Well, great talking to you.

[42:59] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah.

[42:59] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: Learning more about you.

[43:00] JOHN MURCHISON: Yeah, man. Yeah. It's nice. We've known each other for a long time, but I doubt we've sat down and talked to. To each other one on one for this long, like 45 minutes straight. So it's great.

[43:11] MOHAMED ELDEBEK: It does feel great.