Jordan Schreiber and Casey Daugherty

[00:03] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Hello. My name is Casey Daugherty. I am 50 years old. Today is Sunday, April 24, 2022. I am in the Ozarks in Missouri, and my interview partner is Jordan Schreiber, and she's a former student of mine and a friend.

[00:26] JORDAN SCHREIBER: I am Jordan Schreiber I am 32. Today's date is Sunday, April 24, 2022. I'm also in the ozarks of Missouri, and I'm here with Casey Daugherty, who is my former teacher, mentor, friend, all of the above.

[00:50] CASEY DAUGHERTY: All right. So I have no idea where to start, Jordan, but your wife just told us that she sat and listened to us talk for 7 hours. So I hope that we don't go over 7 hours.

[01:01] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Exactly. So let's start with how we met.

[01:05] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Oh, okay. That's not the classroom, actually.

[01:09] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Right. Not the classroom.

[01:10] CASEY DAUGHERTY: I was a volleyball coach in Willow Springs, missouri. And you were a 9th grader. This is my recollection. You were a 9th grader, and I had just got a new job in that area again. Actually, I taught there before, and then they asked me to come back to teach there again to do a special project. And so I was also, at that time in my life, in my teaching career, I was coaching volleyball and tennis. Like, whatever came along, I would coach. And so you were on the volleyball team, and that really is our first. I guess I don't even remember the first day, but.

[01:51] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Well, what I remember is it was summer, and we were doing like, our all out, like two a days volleyball type schedule, and I knew this new coach was coming and. But we heard you were stuck on the beach somehow. I don't know, like sanded the engine or something that delayed you by a few days. And so it was like.

[02:17] CASEY DAUGHERTY: So I didn't show up on the first day.

[02:18] JORDAN SCHREIBER: No, it was like this build up of when's this person coming? And like. So it was a little terrifying in that. But you eventually came. You eventually got off the beach and decided to come play volleyball with us.

[02:30] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Gosh, when was this?

[02:32] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Like 2000? This would have been. No, I was ten years old.

[02:36] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Yeah, this would've been like 2004.

[02:38] JORDAN SCHREIBER: 2004. I was 14 years old. Didn't have understand what it was like to tweeze your eyebrows or, you know, try and make yourself look nice. You know, wear my hair in a ponytail every single day. And just the awkwardness that comes with being 14.

[02:54] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Oh, my gosh.

[02:56] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Yeah. So we met through volleyball and you hated me.

[03:03] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Yes. That is the story. That is the story, but that is not true. I remember, you know, the first time I heard that story. You, your mom. Well, actually, I was at a football game. Right, like, a local football game. And your mom was in the stands, and I don't know that I'd ever spoken to her, and I'm pretty sure you weren't my student yet. You were just my volleyball player. Do you remember this story?

[03:27] JORDAN SCHREIBER: I'm ready to tell, yes.

[03:29] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Okay, so just confirm, like, were you a. Were you. Were you in my class yet?

[03:34] JORDAN SCHREIBER: No, not yet, because you taught me as a senior, so I did build up to that, but this was at least a couple years into playing volleyball. So this is by the time I was a sophomore or junior.

[03:44] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Had to be your junior.

[03:45] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Probably my junior year could be the.

[03:47] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Beginning, because I remember specifically where I saw your mother at the football game and asked. And, like, I saw her, and I don't know. I mean, I'm sure we had talked before, but this probably the first time I had a real conversation with her, even though I had been coaching you for two years, and I made this comment about how much I loved you and your mom. I can still see everything on her face. Complete shock. Like, complete and utter shock. And she says. She puts her arm on me. She's like, really? I'm so happy to hear that. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, yes, I love Jordan so much. She's, like, my favorite person. I mean, I remember being overly then, like, yes, of course, I love her so much. And your mom then saying to me, like, well, she thinks you hate her. Oh, my gosh.

[04:42] JORDAN SCHREIBER: What I did, I literally thought. I don't know. I just thought you did not like coaching me or did not like me at all. And I have to think that's such a pattern in my life. Mara, my now wife, I thought she did not like me at first. She had to literally beat me over the head that we were dating, so.

[05:05] CASEY DAUGHERTY: That's true.

[05:06] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Yeah. But, you know, I think about that thinking that you hated me. I think a lot of it had to do with you were always on me about having confidence in what I was doing. That was, like, the biggest thing that you would be like, stop looking at me whenever I do something right, be like, stop looking at me for approval. You, like, outright said that to me.

[05:29] CASEY DAUGHERTY: And I did eventually. I didn't say that early on. I know, but that was a tendency of yours. Like, you know, I would be on the sidelines, and when you would do an amazing play. Cause you were so good at setting. You're so good at hitting. You're so good at the volleyball game, and you would do something really amazing, and then you wouldn't even celebrate. You would turn and just look right at me, and I'd just be like, good job. Like, celebrate. Come on. And it seemed like all you wanted was to make sure I was okay with what you were doing.

[06:04] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Yes, absolutely. I have to please everyone around me, right? Make sure that I'm doing the right thing. So, yeah, I think that once I found out you liked me, I think things changed a little bit, which was great. Going into my senior year of high school, where you were my college composition teacher, and I feel like that was where. At that point where I really started to not only, like, really enjoyed your class, and I know I'm not getting bonus points for that right now, but I really enjoyed your class. But also, I really started to look to you as a mentor during that time. Just someone I could come to and talk to about anything that was going on in my life. And also, I didn't have to say anything. I spent a lot of time in your room, just, like, eating lunch and stuff, like, not actually doing anything, just a safe space for me. And, you know, during my senior year, and I don't know how much of this you knew was going on, but during my senior year, I was going through a lot of mental health struggles. And, you know, I was the. During that time, you know, I was top of the class senior. Like, I was the type of person you would think, no, of course they're not dealing with these kinds of things, but at that time, I was dealing with suicidal ideation. I was dealing with mental health issues. And not that we even talked about that, but you were a person I knew I could come to just to be. Just to be myself. And it didn't matter. There was no judgment coming about what I was doing or, you know, how I was dealing with things. And that was really a time that, I don't know, I had never had that in my life. I had never had an adult care about me. Just for me, there was no expectation put on who I was supposed to be, and that was something that meant a lot.

[08:03] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Thank you. That means a lot. Hearing it now, of course. But I'm, like, real curious about. I mean, I think in retrospect, I know some of those things were happening, right. At the time, I also knew things were happening and that you were a person who needed approval. Right. Like, you needed me or the adult in your life to say, like, you're okay. You're okay with you being you, right. Like, that's and that's who I want you to be around me. Like, I. And so now I'm, like, curious, like, how. How were you able to get through that time? And even with someone like me? Like you said, like, I just ate lunch in your classroom, right? Or I was there all the time, even when I wasn't knowing all of the dark details happening, right? Like, how. How did that space. I don't know. I don't even know what kind of question I want to ask right now, but I just am thinking about what made that so available to you. And is it just okay to be with someone and them not know the things happening with you, but you still.

[09:19] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Feel accepted by them, you know, for that time period? Retrospect tells you everything, right? I mean, I was 17 at that time. I was dealing with all of the normal things about being a 17 year old. It's just chaotic being in your adolescents. But also I was deeply struggling with being. Knowing or not knowing, not acknowledging that I was gay in a very small, conservative town, a very religious town. And I couldn't even admit that to myself, but I knew something was wrong. And I had a brief relationship with my best friend at the time, and only to have her leave, saying that I had basically ruined her and that she had to leave me so she could follow her religious path. And I was, you know, just trying to figure out who I was, and I wasn't. I wasn't there. I wouldn't. I didn't come out until I was 21. 22. 21. No, 22. I was 22, so I didn't come out until I was 22. So there was this long gap of just trying to figure it out. And, you know, I remember just going through the fall of my senior year thinking that everyone would be better if I wasn't there. And it was this very terrible buildup of self harm and falling into just this self imposed isolation from everyone around me, all of my friends, everyone. And to eventually trying to commit suicide and living through that experience. And part of that is I realized something, wanted to live. I didn't know what that was. I knew in the moment where I attempted that there was something I regretted part of that. And I was very lucky to be a survivor. And so then I tried to get out of that fog. I was like, I'm going to follow this pathway. I'm going to explore what is it that wants to live? And so it was a hard journey out of that. There was no, all of a sudden, key, you know, to it. I think about in your class, you had us do all these writing exercises and daily journals and stuff like that. I wrote a journal. That's what I did. You inspired me to write every single day, and that's what I did. And I still have that journal. And I look back at that time and now through, I mean, honestly, years of therapy, I can look back, and I have such an empathetic view of 17 year old Jordan. I used to beat myself up about the decisions that I made. And, you know, when you have this kid who everything seems to be going right for it, right? Like, I was top of my class. I had all A's. I was everything. The future was mine to grab. But, you know, I would beat myself up about that. But now I'm just like. I have this view, almost like protectiveness of an adult over a child. And I'm like, wow, that's so cool. You made it through. And, yes, it did matter that just, even if you didn't know, because I couldn't voice it at that time, there was no way I could put words to it. But you let me just be. You let me be with you. You let me. I never felt judgment, and I knew you were different. I knew, whether we ever talked about it or not, that you were safe. And I just gravitated towards that. And I remember in the spring of my senior year, you went, and this is like April, this is right before graduation. You were like, what are you doing with your life? Because I had put everything on hold. I had not applied to colleges. I had not done anything, because I didn't think I would be there. And I don't know that we really talked about that at that time. But I remember you being like, you've got to get a hold of what your future is. And that was the shaking I needed. I needed to think about how I could move forward now that I made this decision to live. And it was really you who pushed me to take the next step of where my college life would go after that.

[13:51] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Gosh, Jordan, can. I want to go back to this thing about how does a student. I want to. Can we generalize this a little bit? I'm sorry, because this is an amazing story, but you. Some. Many of the things you haven't said to me and as far as, like, that shake up, I don't even recall that. I think I recall multiple times like, Jordan, what are you doing to. I guess, how do students. What do students look for in an ally, in a teacher?

[14:29] JORDAN SCHREIBER: I would say, I remember if you.

[14:32] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Think about someone that you knew wasn't an ally for you. Even though they didn't know, none of us knew. Right. Like, how does it happen?

[14:42] JORDAN SCHREIBER: I think that there are, like, students are picking up on those nonverbal cues. They're picking up on everything you're doing, whether you say it or not. Like, the types of literature you would have us read, the types of writing we would do, those kinds of things signal to me, like, it was an inclusive space, that there were inclusive writings that we read about. And you would, when you talked about partnerships or whatever, you weren't just, like, male and female together only that's it. You know, and honestly, too, our school at that time, and I would imagine very closely to a lot of rural schools in the Bible belt, walked a really fine line on the. Of having church and being involved in the school system. And it was very obvious who was down that line and who wasn't. And I was also struggling with that at this time. I was from a very strong evangelical family, like, so I wasn't out of space that I wanted to give up my faith either, but I knew my faith wouldn't accept me if I was true to who I was. So, you know, I think just realizing that students are listening, even when you think they're not listening, they're looking for those cues. And it could be, you know, now I see my job. Now I'm in higher education and do a lot with recruiting of high school students. So I spend a lot of time in the high schools, and I see teachers have, like, a pride flag, or I see them have a thing that says safe space, and I'm like, whoa, what is this? Like, even in 15 years, the amount of change that has occurred, I just, like, it blows my mind. I see students who are out and proud, and I just, you know, we're not where we need to be. But I'm so amazed by that. I can't imagine or remember any pride flag of any kind anywhere in my entire time growing up. No, I wouldn't have known what that was until college. But, you know, I just think, you just know. I knew that it was safe, and I could say whatever it was that was on my mind and it was okay. But we also. You had the hard conversations with me, the things I couldn't talk about with my mom about college and my future. And, you know, I could drop the front of. I could say, I'm not okay, and I don't really know why or what's going on, but I'm not okay. And you're like, all right, cool, let's figure it out.

[17:22] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Be in this space of not okay, and let's.

[17:26] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Right. I know.

[17:26] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Make it okay. Let's get there. Right.

[17:28] JORDAN SCHREIBER: I know I spent a lot of time crying in your classroom, and I don't know, you maybe not even knew why, and I didn't know why. You know, just fear of the future. And I think that's really natural for a high school senior, too, that. I mean, everything else piled onto that, but just this fear of what the future would hold. And you have to make these big decisions about what the next step is and what you want to be with your life.

[17:49] CASEY DAUGHERTY: And then when you can't even be who you think you are, exactly. Outside, and this might have been the only space where you could feel, at least even though you weren't announcing who you were, you felt more comfortable to acknowledge. This is in me.

[18:05] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Exactly.

[18:06] CASEY DAUGHERTY: This is who I am.

[18:08] JORDAN SCHREIBER: It helped me start that personal inner journey that, like, whoa. Not everyone hates this identity.

[18:15] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Yeah. Yeah. And there are people who will accept it even if they don't talk about it. Or they're like. I mean, I heard you say, like, the. When a teacher has. Teacher can be, you know, fly the lgbt flag in their classroom, or they can put it up if they're allowed to. Sometimes not allowed.

[18:37] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Right.

[18:38] CASEY DAUGHERTY: But if they're allowed to, or. But it's really also these non verbal cues in the classroom that mattered. Right. It is welcoming.

[18:48] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Yeah.

[18:49] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Experience.

[18:51] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Yes. And it was the ability to explore other viewpoints that you encourage that in your classroom. Like, hey, let's look at this person who has a different religious value system or something, just like, that openness to acknowledging that not everyone has the same walk of life that, you know, our very homogeneous group of people did. You know?

[19:14] CASEY DAUGHERTY: So do you think it's important for kids to have that exposure?

[19:18] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Yes, absolutely. I think about, you know, I think kids are looking for. They want to see themselves in something. Like, they want to say, that's me. And I think about all the stuff that's coming out now, whether it be in TV, film, books, where for LGBTQ characters, the main thing is not coming out. They're just normal people, but they happen to be LGBTQ. And I think that's so amazing because even in the literature that did exist, that was always the central plot. Like, how do I deal with coming out? And kids are looking for something that says, it's okay. There are others like you. That doesn't have to be your main crisis in life. Right. You can just be this. And I think about our, like, even today, I've been watching a new show, and it has numerous queer characters, and it's not queerbaiting in the sense of, you know, they never get together like that. Oh, it just wants you to think there could be a relationship there. They actually get together. And I actually was really emotional about it the other day. I was talking to my wife about it, and I was like, why? And she's like, because we don't get to see this. We don't get to see ourselves in things naturally. Naturally. And I think that's something that every kid is looking for. It doesn't matter if you're on GBTQ. Any kid is looking for that connection to the outside, to connection to people like them that have been through a similar experience. So I think it's incredibly important to learn about people like you and people who are not like you. I got to college, and that was a whole new world that shook me to the core. And I think there's something great about that in college that you get that exposure to other things. But why can't we start that earlier? Why does it have to be so scary in that moment? You know, you're already going through adolescence and, like, this transition to adulthood, and you have to figure out what your beliefs are throughout that time. But if that's the first time you're hearing that Catholics are also Christians. Whoa. You know, like, it was mind blowing for me. And that's why I ultimately ended up studying religious studies. Like, I love the study of motivation in how humans interact with each other. But I do think earlier on, just the turmoil of adolescence to have something as a guiding light, something that says, hey, it's gonna get better at the end of the day that this is actually just a really terrible time in life. And I couldn't imagine with today's social media stuff, but I think every kid is looking for that.

[22:04] CASEY DAUGHERTY: And then you said something like, when you go to. When you went to college, it was, like, mind blowing, right? But, you know, I mean, you think about your graduating class. Like, not everybody went to college. Everybody did have me as a senior teacher, though, right? Like, so am I, you know, sometimes an English or sometimes a teacher. Is that last stop for. Have you read other opinions? Have you. Have you seen other perspectives? Am I the cat? Am I going to have to be the caveat to do that, right or not the caveat? That's nothing. The catalyst, right? To make sure that those all students have this exposure to ideologies that are exactly like theirs and ideologies that are not exactly like theirs. And then the critical thinking to know their story. Right. Know where they fit into because I mean, when you went to college, like you said, like, oh, that was another mind blowing experience. Right. But then some of your peers didn't have go to college, so.

[23:04] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Right. And it, like, it made me a better person. At the end of the day. At the end of the day, I can be empathetic and I can understand others. And even if we don't share the same viewpoint, I think that is what is so necessary. It makes you a better person because you have to understand, like, the fact is there are people not like you out there. So at the very least they exist. So, you know, to be able to work with them and try to at least see where they're coming. Coming from is an important skill. And, you know, I just, you know, to that you're saying that teacher is that last stop.

[23:42] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Sometimes it could be right in public education or, you know, at the highest grade level.

[23:47] JORDAN SCHREIBER: And something I want to bring up with that is, you know, I think the national conversation against with teachers right now, there is a mass exodus of teachers right now we see people leaving. Even in our local school district, over 100 teachers are leaving at the end of the school year. And so this profession that used to be, I feel like used to be very valued and prestigious is now being just put down upon and seen as less than we know. The pay is low. We know that now. There are lots of bills and laws out there trying to regulate what teachers are able to say and the parental role in that. And just, it seems exhausting. It seems exhausting. So, you know, I want to ask your view on that right now as a person, as an educator who has been there, I believe you said, near 30 years now. How has that perception of teaching changed? How have you seen that play outd?

[24:55] CASEY DAUGHERTY: So I'm finishing year 27. I am currently not a classroom teacher. I work in a different. I still am public education, but I work with curriculum and instruction and assessment, and I am talking with teachers more than I am with students. I still teach local classes at the community college. So I still have had my foot in the classroom for 27 years now. But it's changed a lot. And I forgot the word that you just used. You know this. But my word, my first word is fear. Like, there's a big fear coming from teachers right now. Like they're scared to lose their jobs, they're scared to even support. Sometimes it feels like a minority student or a student that's marginalized in some way. It feels very difficult, I think, to support those students. And so I think the conversation that you and I are having, like, you've given me these ideas of there are so many ways to support people, and it doesn't mean that you have to fly the flag. It doesn't mean that you have to put down. I support my minority students on your board, right? Like, these non verbal cues of being inclusive and these verbal cues of verbal cues also of being inclusive of your students and all of them and accepting them for who they are, where they are, whether they're crying on that day or whether they're nothing. You know, they. Everybody gets this teacher who is their support and their point of light at some moment. You know, I'm hopeful of that. It's changed so much in this 27 years because I would have never been afraid when you were a senior in high school to talk about racism or to call someone out about being racist. I would never be afraid to talk about being gay or to call someone out for pushing back on someone else being gay. Like, I would have called that out in a minute when I was your teacher. Didn't have to happen very often. But I do have cases in my mind, I think I can recall. And then I also have cases of, like, sexual harassment that happened in the classroom, right. That I'm just like, hey, kid, that is sexual harassment. You cannot do that, right? Like, I've been able to do that in the past. If I were in the classroom today, I don't know. I don't know how I would behave. I don't know how I. If I would still have a job. Only because I'm being inclusive of everyone and ethically, morally calling out behaviors that aren't about that student, you know, like, it's just a behavior and they're 1415, 1617 years old. You don't know how you truly feel about other races right now. You don't know how you feel about being gay sometimes. I mean, if you do, great, right? But you don't. Sometimes you're learning. And I think for me, that's what I always kept in mind with my students, is that we're all learning here. And it's not my job to judge you because you've just made a racist comment. It's my job to help educate you and say, like, this is a racist comment. This is a comment that pushes against another human being's sexuality. Like, that's not cool. And we're here to be supportive humans of each other, right? Like, this is a safe space and I don't know if things were, like, pushed, maybe that was never had. I never had to say that. I never had to say that. But I did call students out individually, or I might say something to them and say, hey, that's. That's not right. But I don't know. Today, I think, getting back to your question, I. It would be very difficult. It's changed a lot. And. And that does make me, like, we were talking a little earlier about, like, you know, 27 years. I'm just a couple of years away from retirement, and I'm thinking, well, was this career worth it? Right? Like. And at the same time, I'm also just pushing people to stake in it because it is like, I know that it is. And then I talk to students like you and I have other students, and I'm just like, I know this is worth it. You don't get paid. It's very difficult to hear the national pushback right now and to want to stay in it. Why would anybody want to stay in that profession? But then I talk to you, and I'm like, we're such good friends now. And I love your wife. I love your dogs. I love your family. I love everything about you that we have, you know, grown to in friendship over the last 1415 years, 1920, I guess, since from the first time I met you.

[30:34] JORDAN SCHREIBER: But, yeah, I. You know, just to make it very clear, this career matters 100%. No doubt. I think about. It's with sadness that I think about people leaving the system. Good, well meaning, and well intentioned teachers leaving the system because of politics, because of the red tape, because of everything that they're dealing with, because there are way more kids like me out there. And it's not just LGBTQ. There are kids growing up in homes that they don't feel part of, that they are scared to be themselves, that they feel they have no role model, they have no one to look to. And I don't. From just my perspective, just my experience, I don't know if I'd be here today without someone like you. I don't know if I would have lived. And that may sound extreme, but I don't think it is. I think there are plenty of kids going through the same thing. And I think about when you were talking, it made me think about those cues you can give a student right now. The national conversation seems to be really highlighted on transgender students. And I think about putting your pronouns in your email signature, putting your pronouns somewhere that, to me, signals you value me as a human. And that's something that in my career, I've always put it in my email signature, I use it in my zoom link, all of that. And I've had people say, hey, this matters to me. I had a, not too long ago, a parent say, my child is transgender. This means a lot that you have this and not that everyone will say anything or that I'm looking for someone to thank me. But it's small things like that, little things like where I was saying that they're always listening, they're always paying attention, and they're looking for those affirmations. And so I think that it's something to be aware of that sometimes we write off children, adolescents, as, like, they don't know what they're thinking or they're just emotional, like, you know, just like these whirlwinds and. Yes, but it's very real emotion to them. It's very. It means something. And they're looking for things to help them get through that turmoil. And even just your normal, average kid who even fits the total mainstream is still dealing with stuff, still feeling like everyone is looking at them and judging them. So, you know, just the fact that a teacher can make that difference in a kid's life can be that mentor. I wish that and hope that we'll be going towards a place nationally to where that conversation changes with teachers, that it's truly respected and valued. And I think we're for years have been heading in a place where people are isolating with those they agree with and they don't know how to interact with those they don't agree with anymore. And that's a real problem. It's a skill we've lost. It's not that everyone has to agree at the end of the day, but we don't know how to talk with people who disagree with us or be exposed to something and say, hey, at the end of the day, I don't agree with you, but I still value you as a human. Every human deserves dignity, and it doesn't matter what that viewpoint is. There are a lot of people out there I don't agree with, but I still value them as a human being and still want them to have the dignity of being a human being. And so I think that we get caught up in this, that it's a huge political discussion or this debate. It doesn't seem so political if we talk about the value and dignity of being a human being, that at the end of the day, that's what matters, and teachers are providing that and they should be able to provide that they should be able to validate each human that comes through their classroom.

[34:48] CASEY DAUGHERTY: I love that. I mean, that makes me. Sometimes it makes me want to. Oh, I want to go back in the classroom, right. Because I think in the end, for me, that was what it was about. I mean, I love to be validated. I wanted my students to feel validated in what they were thinking and feeling, and probably more importantly, that it was okay to be who you are and that the person sitting next to you is okay for them to be who they are. And that when we do come together, that we are accepting of that and that we are safe together, but we're better together because they are not who you are. Right. Like, we bring together these all different people and honor and respect that. But if the honor isn't there, the trust isn't there, the respect isn't there, then it feels like we don't dignify each other. And I think about the classroom that we had when I was with you in the classroom, and it was a fun place for me for people to say what they wanted and do what they wanted. And maybe there were some students in that classroom who didn't feel that way. I don't know. But for the most part, it feels that way or felt that way coming out of it.

[36:07] JORDAN SCHREIBER: But there was definitely a bond in that class. You know, we were all going through the same transition into adulthood.

[36:16] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Sure.

[36:16] JORDAN SCHREIBER: But, yeah, I would say that, you know, I think to all the different types of people that were in there, and we had a uniting factor to that. It didn't matter what the belief system is, what the home life was, all of that. We could bond and see value in each other. And that's something I think about when I look back at my time in college. That was one of the few times since then when we get into our careers and stuff, we kind of go with those that agree with us. It's just naturally you pick your friends, you pick your family kind of thing. But in college, I really had this space of. I sat next to and talked to people that I 100%, fundamentally disagreed with, but we valued each other and saw it as a space to learn from each other, even if, at the end of the day, we walked away, didn't agree. Like, there are still people that I talked to from college that and from my program that I'm like, yeah, we still don't agree on anything, but I value them, and I value their insight. And I realized that not everyone who doesn't agree with me is just, like, stupid. Or ignorant. Right. I realize that they're very smart people, but we value things differently. There are things that are more important to me that are not as important to them or vice versa. So I think about that educational space. For me, a lot of that exposure to different viewpoints came in college as I had worked out my own viewpoints towards things. But I don't think that can be lost in the k through twelve system either. I think that can exist there. And it is a time for. In a protected space for students to figure out their belief system, to figure out who they are. It's natural to transition through things and be maybe on the extremes and then trying to find somewhere in the middle. And I think that should be such a protected space for students to work through that because it will make them better humans in the end.

[38:18] CASEY DAUGHERTY: I love that idea of protected space for that to happen. Right. So I do, you know, I'm always just emotional. So I think I do want to say I'm so proud of you.

[38:36] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Thank you. You know, we spent a lot of time on that high school experience, but we didn't, we didn't get a lot into post high school. Right. Yeah, we haven't even gotten into all of that. I know, but I think to, that space is like, that was a very formative time in my life that would determine who I would be as an adult, that I would persevere, that I would go to college, that I would fulfill everything I was seeking to do. But, you know, I, from my side, thank you. Because of that space, I came to you as a 22 year old and asked for help to come out to my family. And when I came out, I came back to your house afterward completely emotionally devastated because it didn't go well. And you were there for me. You've always been there for me. And, you know, you've helped me grow in confidence to, you know, I still, I think, look for your approval every day, but I, like now I can do things that I never thought were possible because you believed in me. I had someone who told me, you're good, go do this. Like, I believe in you and it's okay wherever that path winds to. But you have to always be striving for what your best self is. And you always push that with me and continue to. To this day, even as friends. But I think I get to push a little bit too now.

[40:10] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Yes.

[40:11] JORDAN SCHREIBER: For you. So. But I, you know, I just thank you for being there for me because I. This relationship has been something that, you know, I think the mentor mentee relationship exists for a lot of people, but to see it grow to a true friendship is something that I just feel really honored to be a part of. I would wish this for anyone to have that kind of relationship. And you know that you stuck around after 14 year old awkward Jordan all the way up to 32 year old Jordan, who's still trying to make it in this world.

[40:48] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Equally awkward. 32 year old Jordan, equally awkward.

[40:52] JORDAN SCHREIBER: But I attribute a lot of my growth as an adult and as a young human being to you and to helping me when, you know, maybe my family wasn't what it needed to be, my society, my town wasn't what I needed it to be. My friends weren't what I needed them to be, because they were also ingrained in all of that. You were a constant, and that's something I would hope for every student to have, to have someone who says, I believe in you no matter what. And I think that's incredibly important.

[41:28] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Thank you. I, again, just want to say I'm so proud of you. And, yeah, I also want to say that you don't have to look anywhere else but in you. Right? Like, you just. All you have to do is look in you and approve of you, and you will shine, because that is what has happened to you. You were looking for so much outside approval, and that's not where you needed it. You needed it inside of you, and you got it and you grew it. And you're an amazing educator yourself today, and you're an amazing new job. Director of admissions, you know? So you're a new job and encouraging so many kids to go to school. And I just. I hope that you continue that. And I can't wait to see in 20 more years what our friendship is.

[42:21] JORDAN SCHREIBER: Going to look like. I know, right? And I. Yeah. I can only hope that in my career journey that, you know, you inspire me to now be that person for someone else. And that's what I hope as I meet these 17 and 18 year olds, that they look at me and say, that is me. I see me. I see success. I see someone who's happy living their best life and, well, best life could clean the house a little bit more, but, you know, my best life. And I think. I hope I can be half the mentor for those students as you were for me.

[42:59] CASEY DAUGHERTY: Thank you, Jordan. Thank you.