Joseph Singer and Angela Singer

00:03 Hi, my name is Joseph singer. I'm 29 years old and today is Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021. I'm currently in Oak Park Illinois. And today I'll be talking with my mother Angela singer.

00:19 And hello.

00:25 For today on Wednesday, February 3rd, 2021 in Swampscott, Massachusetts, and I'm talking to my son Joseph singer.

00:35 OK Google I mom so I figured since Danielle and I are having our first kids you and I wanted to ask you a few questions a kind of similar to that a little bit more peripheral. So the first one I thought it was good was can you describe yourself as a child and then furthermore do you think you were happy when you were a kid?

01:00 Okay, so I think for a soldier has a tremendous influence on

01:07 The people that we become I was a middle child. My sister is two and a half years older than I am and my next sibling is 5 years younger. And then of course, I have another sibling that's 10 years younger, but I think I think my childhood I prestige at the time to be fun. I remember distinctly not wanting any more siblings and being kind of surprised when my brother was born when I was five. I think I

01:46 Reacted more positively to my brother's birth when my second brother was born 10 years and years after that.

01:57 But you know my father and mother I think tried very hard to raise a very close-knit family, which I think they left us with that Legacy and I think I've tried to keep our nuclear family really close as a result of that and I consider that like the focus point of my life. That seems pretty true. I agree with that Uncle pretty clothes you had

02:34 Interesting situations growing up, but did you ever get in trouble when you were a kid? And what was like the worst thing that you ever did?

02:42 I know I have issues.

02:47 I remember a couple of of events when I was.

02:51 Say under 10 where I got into trouble. I got into trouble once for a climbing on some exposed pipes and causing like major water leaks in the house. That was interesting. I remembered like not wanting to practice piano sufficiently.

03:13 But for the most part, I think there were very few things that I kind of got into trouble with until I was a teenager and as I mentioned to you before I came of age during the Vietnam war so when I was in high school and college the social focus of the whole nation really had a very invasive impact I think on most family lives and I think certainly, you know, the events of covet and the last election and the previous presidency, of course had a similar impact, but I think

03:56 My opposition to the Vietnam War became

04:01 It certainly was a strong philosophical focus when I was in high school and college and my father didn't agree with my position in opposition to the war in that caused a lot of strain between us. I was also really always a very independent child. So once I was like in high school age and college-age, I really want you to do things.

04:27 That I wanted to do without without no inquest from my parents. So if I wanted to attend a concert that was far away or if I wanted to enroll in a certain program or participate in in certain demonstrations against the war those were all things that I really did without my parents approval. They weren't please. My father was particularly not pleased and I think it's set a barrier between us are huge barrier, but definitely a barrier that lasted for a long time and

05:10 I think that was really unfortunate because my father ended up dying when I was fairly young as you know, he died when I was 30 and I felt that there were a lot of Lost Years there and dumb.

05:23 That could have been spent differently and we could have had a better relationship for that. Of time. I think by the time I was 30 things he had really even doubt but I felt that I had been somehow she did out of that time. Okay, actually a pretty good segue cuz I was thinking about this kind of one questions. I wanted to ask you was kind of looking at the world right now. I know we talked about how I don't think it looks great a lot thinking about the future in the country and just kind of like the direction of how I like the planet. I sometimes think about that in relation to the kids and bring me into the world.

06:13 And I'm wondering if I should be doing something different or trying to fix things or living my life in a different way.

06:22 I wonder when you first had Anna and then pollen and I that was in like the early 80s 90s, what was like your position or what was your opinion of like the things going on in the world and was itself that worried you were worried about the world that we would be coming into there are certainly right now with the political situation and and with the kobuk situation. This is an extraordinary time and absolutely unprecedented time. But to a lesser degree, there's always problems in the world is never perfect and there are no perfect time so I think

07:05 I think I feel that you should always be moving forward and I don't believe in like in postponing happiness because like you're waiting for time to be perfect, you know in many ways.

07:23 You and Danielle are going to be having a child at a very complex time in your life with schooling with residencies with being away from distant enough from family that they can't be a lot of help. I think that's all problematic but as problematic as it is, I think you'll figure it all out at the time that your sister and I was born. I was 30. Your father wasn't working. I was teaching we really had no money.

07:58 But you know we went ahead and we had your sister and that was like immense happiness for us and even though your grandfather passed away when she was 3 months old and and that time was fraught with all kinds of

08:17 Terrible tragedy. I think you move forward with life and your personal life can't be on hold because the world isn't ready for your next step.

08:33 Resent things that work was there things that you think that I like more globally worried you or that you gave pause like I I think about like

08:42 I guess like my kids going to be growing up in Chicago probably which is a very different-looking place in Boston and theoretically more diverse and they'll have different friends and different experiences, but they're also coming into a time when things aren't super great in the country. I'm on that friend. Was there any like sort of like conflicts or issues that were really pregnant in the 90s that you thought would be things that would affect my childhood.

09:09 Well, I mean there were definitely issues there was so you can hear what's always trouble in the Middle East and there was you know that the rock around situation was like a huge problem your father and I were against that war as well and I brought your sisters when they were very young to demonstrations.

09:34 Climate change, you know all kinds of issues that

09:40 Politically were allowed to make climate change more.

09:48 I'm always worried you as a parent. But again there things that you don't have any individual control over. I think you know, you tried to you try to

10:05 Do the best you can in and have an impact on the world in a positive way from your from your Limited?

10:17 Roll it felt like it was at anything was like a personal crisis. I feel like covid-19 very personal crisis and I'm much better equipped to deal with it now and then I was like, it's like I had a kid like 9 months ago. That would have been like a nightmare, but I'm just wondering

10:39 I guess you did anything feel as out of your hands as like you said Dad wasn't working and you were teaching like was that one of those things all bigger concerns than everything else in the world?

10:51 I think so because you know how much money you have any given time I'm not originally materialistic but having money always makes life easier it just us and I'm having more money makes life. I think in some ways even more easy cuz it gives you options that you don't have if you don't have any money. I mean that's not the only contributing factor. There's lots of things there's lots of things about having children and creating a family that are just

11:27 You know, joyful that are just wonderful and I think you have to

11:35 You have to involve yourself in that in that present tense. Like you have let you know you have a nice my my first grandchild his three now.

11:48 And she's just like I view her existence as just like a wonderful element of my life. And your your child will be another wonderful element and sure like covet is going to be in influencing. Maybe I will be able to fly out to see that baby in Chicago as quickly as I would like to but you know that it will happen and I will I will spend time with with you. It will just be a challenge and as much as you and Danielle are challenged by all the complexities of Parenthood.

12:31 It will also be just incredibly incredibly joyful and they'll be those like Saturday mornings, you know live for the weekend. So we do Saturday mornings. We are you know, you just you just are the three of you together.

12:50 Helpfully, the covid-19 will be less and less each month. I I don't know.

12:57 I know shifting gears a little bit.

13:03 I don't know a ton about your father. Everyone is always really spoken very highly of him and said that I would have liked him. Dad says I would have liked him and would have liked me. What's your best memory of your father?

13:16 My father was a very

13:20 Really generous man. And you know when I was younger, I didn't realize the significance of his generosity for a long time as a police detective he worked at night and I don't know thinking back. I don't know how much she ever slept because he didn't come home from work and like go to bed and we have to be quiet cuz he's sleeping. So I am not quite sure when he's left. But like I remember in when I was in high school. He he drove us to school pretty much every morning.

13:55 And I mean I was capable of that one. Yeah when he came home in the morning and you know, I could have walked in there was certainly a trolley that I could take like a few stocks to go. So it wasn't a really far distance. I like not only did he

14:15 Did he drive me to school he picked up like a couple of my friend picked up my cousin.

14:23 And like that was just something that he didn't I remember she lived on a my cousin lived on a dead-end street. So it's it looks like really a little everyday was in with an automobile Adventure like going down that dead-end street and then turning the car around and pulling out again, but she just like always did that and

14:46 With or without being asked and and I knew that there were a number of things that I could like ask him to do like help with my car help with things at the house and

15:02 You know, that's I think that's what I missed when he wasn't here anymore. And it's always been like the saddest thing for me as a mother that you did. You guys didn't have him as a grandfather.

15:14 Because I think that would have been.

15:18 Raising

15:21 How is he different from Nani?

15:24 Though he was very different from my mother. You know, my mother had her own challenges and

15:32 You know your grandmother really had a very difficult time in accepting the idea that life should be. Joyful. I can laugh about that now, but you know, she really she's really didn't.

15:46 Said a hard time seeking happiness or even enjoying happiness when he came and my father was less like that and although he didn't have a lot of opportunities to like, you know, what to go to college to meet different people and stuff like that. He really took advantage of the opportunities that he did have his life, you know, like working as a policeman detective. It was interested in lots of things and and he you know, he was way more conservative politically than I ever was and he was religious and you don't think that was a very big deal because I never words with letters.

16:33 But he really he had a

16:37 You know, I think of anything my mother held him back like I think he

16:42 Add more had more desire to move forward and open his life and open his world than she did at but that being said, you know like

16:54 My parents had four children who were raised four children who were like very successful and

17:03 Capable of meeting the world. So they I guess it did something right front with all their limitations. When did you first find out that you would be apparent?

17:19 And then I have a follow-up question after that. I'm kind. Well, we were home. We actually decided to go ahead with some.

17:28 You know with with some.

17:31 Sister said that go. Let's have a baby and then we got pregnant right away instantly would you guys cuz I said, you know, like it wasn't like perfect timing in any way, but it was incredibly wonderful also.

17:53 So once you found out you were going to have Anna on where were you guys living?

18:00 We were living in.

18:03 When we were living in a house that we owned and I was working of course full time at the teacher.

18:11 And your father was working as employment, you know as a recruiter, but you know, he had a lot of ups and downs around that. In employment and

18:24 But

18:25 You know, we did the best that we could I think in terms of everything is different, and you'll find out like a difficult like with childcare and scheduling and responsibilities and sharing, you know, childcare responsibilities. That's like all really really difficult and that's unique to every situation every night. So it's something that you'll

18:53 You know you owe me Daniel workout and they'll be some days that are really frustrating and other days that are

18:59 You know.

19:01 Wonderful. How did your family react when you told them that you and Dad were expecting?

19:10 I

19:12 Yeah, I think they were I think that was something you have a super memorable reaction.

19:18 No, it was funny or actually when you were born cuz I was like 40 then almost 40 then and was like, oh you're going to have another baby. So your sisters were like, I guess more anticipated cuz I was like 30 and 33 when they were born and you were like less into the faded, but but also happy.

19:42 Okay, that's fair.

19:48 Very selfish question, but I'm wondering what were some like Florida hardest moments you had when I was growing up, I guess specifically for my childhood cuz I feel like some things when I was a teenager when I was older I could like pick up when you and Dad were like stressed about stuff or run happy about things, but we're like hard mom if you had one me and the girls were all you

20:13 Are always like a hard moment that you and the girls have when I'm around when you were a child. So, you know, of course you don't remember it specifically but you know when you were a year-and-a-half-old you were found to be like poisoned and some weed moved into we've moved from one older house into another old house and

20:37 You know, we went to a doctor's appointment for a regular checkup, and then they called me and said oh, you know what that's these high levels of lead and

20:47 And that's your balls into like a whole bunch of things that happen right away. Like we had to move out of the house and then have all the all the light painting the house abated indoor now and that was like a really really challenging time. But of course

21:04 Although we were worried about the

21:08 Problems of taking care of where we lived like no concern was you and like what would be the impact of of that on your life for the rest of your life. So I mean, I just want to say I'm in medical school now, so it's fine. I know I know but that was me that that happened and I will never not feel responsible for that and you know as the doctor at Children's Hospital tell me at the time, you know, yes, he's doing well, but you never know why she would have been which is a scary and frightening and horrible. They will let you know as a teacher talking to parents has lots of things that you consider like what would a conversation be but anyway, she said that to me I said like, you know, he's

22:06 Because I I was very aggressive in in your treatment because I did not assure Follette poisoning but there are chelating agents as you know that you've taken and those agents in your body binds with the letter and remove it and so we pursued a really aggressive treat and so your lead levels went down really quickly and stayed down and that was great and part of me felt that you know, like then that challenged was like a little bit over and then the doctor know his conversation with me was like to let me know that it wasn't over and

22:51 And we always being elements of your life. So.

22:56 I just want to point out. I feel like it turned out. Okay, mostly glad you feel that way.

23:08 You're only as fast as happy as your

23:13 Least happy child

23:16 At any moment historically at that me or is that pollorena? I really believed that birth order has a really huge impact on the people that you become so I think that

23:36 You know, it's your sister cellular like much younger than they are. And so that means you were born that a time that I was like further along in my profession and better paid and we had like more money and stuff. So that have an impact on your you're growing up that was different from your sisters and that's why they always say that they think that you're the youngest in your spoiled.

24:01 Was my life like way better than their lives cuz I feel like we often have that conversation that my life was like very much born with silver spoon in mouth and we have no Silver Spoons, but you you did have I guess you had more spoons than they did. So, you know, you went to Disney World when you were for your sister was like, you know,

24:29 13 almost 14 when she went for the first time and you know, you learn to ski when you were four and they probably didn't learn to ski until they were like

24:40 Well for 13 so they they perceived that you had more.

24:45 Do you wish you had a little more Advantage than they?

24:49 Okay, cuz we were older.

24:57 And we were all so I think more relaxed. I was more relaxed as a parent when you were born because I had already been through that experience a couple of times and I was 20 and I was tired so

25:11 When Anna was born, where you

25:14 Did you have any idea how do you start raising a kid free worried about like what did you do? I never read non-fiction and I didn't read like those children's books and I just, you know made a lot of mistakes I think and

25:35 But you know you get better at things and I think you know, you have the best instincts, you know in some ways. I think I you model you always end up modeling the behavior that your parents provided and sometimes that's good. Sometimes that's not good. My mother was like a harsh disciplinarian and I and I

25:57 I model some of that behavior. I wouldn't do that now if I had my life to do over but I think it's something that I learned as a parent and I developed as a parent and I think I got better as a parent as I got older.

26:18 Okay.

26:21 Let me ask you a question that worried about you and I'm about to guess having children or family or anything like that. Who's one person in this is something I don't think I could answer on my own. Is there someone outside of your family who has had a really big influence on your life like living dead Mentor friend someone?

26:49 Pinkish huge influence. I don't think there's been like a a driving influence of everyone of anyone.

26:57 On my life. I think I've had some friendships in my life. I think you know my friendship with whis is running can is probably like one of those strongest of my life and I think

27:09 That's been it's been helpful for me to have her as a friend in my life. So I think that that's an important. I have, you know, a strong relationship with my siblings particularly my sister and that's been like a good thing and a bad thing at different times in my life. I've certainly but really significant, you know, I would say not necessarily always a positive impact, but definitely an impact on on my life, you know when you were starting off teaching and who is someone that you looked up to or thought was a good teacher remembered as a good teacher when you were in school

27:58 You know, I didn't have a lot of teachers that I work with that I thought were.

28:05 Incredible role models for me as a teacher, I think.

28:13 I think as a teacher I developed with like more and more experienced. I think one of the strongest influences on my success as a teacher came when I had my own children and I think as my children Grew Older and like Wednesday the school system and became like middle school students are high school students. I think my teaching improved because I understood a great deal more about what kids were going through and I feel so I think throughout my career I thought more and more of students as individuals and

28:49 I considered like what my impact would be on them as a teacher. I think that really shave my teaching women anything else. Is that make sense?

29:00 I think I can ask you this now since it's somewhat common knowledge you're considering retirement very soon and all the cool things that will bring what's something really concrete that you'd like to do in the next 10 years. Now that you'll have more free time and not necessarily be tied to work like rather than just travel. Is there anything really particular you'd like to do?

29:26 I mean, I think I think you know, it's taking me a long time to come to this decision. And I think now that I should have like officially made this decision. I feel

29:37 For your and less worried about it. I was always I'm I've always been that kind of person who like Chris ever write something for a long time before I make a decision and then when I make a decision finally then I'm liberated from thinking but I mean I do, you know, I look forward to like I worry but I still look forward to setting my own schedule long and I I definitely want to like still do stuff that I guess would be like in the occupational call him. So I like I would like to talk to her and I would like to still work with kids if that's possible and maybe I would like to do some teaching part-time. I'd like to be able to travel like times that are different from school vacations. You know, I'd like to have that I'd like to be able to like to be present in my in the lives of my grandchildren in a in a in a significant way.

30:36 I would like it. That means like flying out to Chicago a bunch, you know, I would like to be able to do that.

30:48 Well, I don't know about that. But I would you know when your sister lived in DC. I used to fly down there all the time. So I mean I

30:58 You know I want I think you do you make choices in your life. So if you want to be close to someone you just make yourself do that and if they live in another location, you just make yourself go to that place.

31:10 And you know, I see that as part of my future whether you aren't you do and you might not be in Chicago forever. Who knows where you'll be and

31:21 And we will always with you a bit of a kind of a different question that another one I wasn't quite sure. I know we're very secular humanist family. We're not very superstitious. We don't fit a lot of the Italian stereotypes or Jew stereotypes for that matter. Do we have any Traditions that we've like held onto or that you passed down or even that are just things that are familial that I might not notice. I do cook a certain things or a certain order. I mean you don't

31:58 What's the culture right I mean I always felt like a little bit bad that I wasn't religious because I felt that if I had been and you were members of like some religious community and that would be a thing in your life and as a child, I was a member of a religious community that meant something to me apart from it was a community and I felt bad that you guys didn't have that that being said though, I think culture is many things and I think you do for us. I think it's getting together. I think it's getting together with like different rituals around food. We all eat a lot. I think when we think of getting together with menus and we think of of how we make things for each other we can make make nice experiences that way and we also have a large presence.

32:58 Dogs in our lives and I think that's part of our family culture as well. That's true. Is there anything that your mom used to do that? You still do or even don't think about I know you still carry around the pieces of cloth with you and Anna still does that and Bobby does that is that a thing that you got from your mom or is that something that I think that

33:35 Percentage a kind of thing. I think that

33:42 I think that the strongest things that my mother kind of left in terms of community was

33:49 Like this idea for communication. I mean she was impossible in a way because she always expected me to call her and her not to call me. So I try I try to live apart from that and I reach out to you as much or more at a given time to send you reach out to me, but I think it I think the connection is important and however, the connection is created, you know, and you just have to be open to that. So like yesterday we had a snow day in Boston like Ryan came over to work and she is sister. I'm coming to all my meetings yesterday.

34:33 Was she a head?

34:40 She said she I guess she was a hit.

34:43 Did her coloring in her?

34:46 You know the more you bring in with life, I think the more you so people enjoyed seeing her that was just like a positive thing and one guy who is on one of my meetings like when he got his dog and put her on the screen and somebody else's child like then saw that she was there and then insinuated herself into the screen as well. So I think I think it's just I think it's what you bring and letting it in and whatever that whatever that means. So if you see if you have like a family gathering

35:25 Or you have a business meeting then ends up having family members and then I think you just you have to go with it.

35:36 Okay after Tran be more open with things.

35:52 And I think you'll find that when you when you you don't have your child. You'll think like well, my mother would do this. Like what do I want to do? You know and you'll think differently. Are you all think the same but you'll make a decision on how you want to behave.

36:09 I know you've always had goals for us for an Impala and I and I know you consider yourself a t-shirt kind of like internally forever. How would you like your students and all the people that you've taught over the years kind of the remember you I know you want them to like have a chain skills. But how would you like them to like remember you when I think about you was there something you know, there's a quotation in education, which I think is the most important one and

36:42 I'm paraphrasing but it's it's something like, you know students will never remember exactly what it was that you taught them exactly that skill or

36:53 That

36:55 Literature where that story but they always remember how you made them feel and I think that's

37:07 100% of

37:10 What you are in life so that the lives that you touch the people that you know

37:16 How do you make people feel because they're in your life do they feel like important do they feel?

37:27 Shared for do they feel?

37:32 That their significant enough

37:34 See you that you think about them and I I think that's that's how I always wanted students to ultimately feel.

37:46 How do you as a teacher at some point? I feel like it's still married and we miss you succeeded in that regard. So now I'm a you know, I'm a much better writer because I knew that teacher but barring that I want them to feel good about ourselves and feel that I love him.

38:16 I think kind of shifting gears. And again, this is somewhat annoying of me. She told me a lot of things and usually very honest, but is there anything that you've never told me that you would like to or be willing to tell me now?

38:32 About about family about our family about our relationship about your relationships. I don't really know.

38:46 I think sometimes you know you always I think most parents trying to protect their kids from knowledge of things that are not so great. So, I mean like they were probably times that we struggled financially and then share that necessarily with you and then I'll be there was like a crazy time. When are one of our furnaces like stopped working and we took all the money out. If you're like little kids savings accounts to pay for the new furnace. And of course we put the money back but I mean like,

39:20 Hello moments and I felt kind of bad about that. Even though I knew was just a temporary fix said there were times like that. I mean obviously I mean there were times when you guys were in college that you know, just call Ajay Casa Brazilian collars that it was really hard and I'm glad you have your Boston College shirt on because I certainly so I think you know, I think they were Financial complications that you guys didn't know about that. I think, you know, I'm very glad that you didn't know about the one they happened because

39:56 One person is apparent the other person is the child. So I don't think having kids worry about stances is

40:05 Appropriate

40:08 I mean you can be open with your kids, but I don't think you should let them know that necessarily so I think I get that from you and Danielle is completely undermined said because she wants to be really open with her with her when we talk about letting our to go to college because like they're going to pay for college and they're going to do this my parents help me pay for college. I'm going to pay for college that you can do that. We're going to be honest with them with finances and help them manage things.

40:38 And I know that's going to be 18 years, but

40:43 What about anything less?

40:47 Really, I guess hardship wise. Is there anything else? I don't know about you that or anything interesting or anything different?

41:03 Worried a lot about things and I think sometimes you guys were aware of that. Sometimes you weren't but

41:12 You maybe I don't even know how much you perceived my worries about things. So that's probably like something for another 40-minute conversation. Okay, how much did you know? I was worried about anything at any given moment.

41:31 Now I just assume you're worried about everything so that makes it a little bit easier you are exactly I know I am exactly as worried about a 38 year old child as I am about an 8 month old child. You always want your kids to be happy always want life to be easier for them. And you always want them to achieve their goals and find happiness and find love that never find a dog and that never goes away that never gets any less for your entire life kind of enclosing then

42:19 I'm starting a new part of my life kind of in a big way and you've done it. Do you have any advice for me? I guess beyond the generic, you know, you'll figure it out the most important thing and I don't know if I realize this when you guys were younger, I think you really have to enjoy I think your responsibility to yourself to enjoy it as much as you can so I think all though I'm a warrior and I think in some ways you're a warrior I think enjoying it and stopping to enjoy it or the most important is the most important thing because life just goes by really quickly like everyday and taking joy in what you have in that moment whether it's like a silly moment are ridiculous moment or a challenging moment. No chicken joy in that moment is the most important thing.

43:12 UK I think you have time

43:19 Sorry, I was just asking so I was I guess I would like to leave this conversation with that thought for you. So when you're up in the middle of the night and this baby is crying. You don't want to know what to do with this, baby.

43:36 Like that moments never going to happen exactly that way again. So there's like some joy to find in that moment.

43:47 All right. I'll try and keep that in mind. I think we're at time.

43:52 So no head and just quickly that was an amazing conversation.

44:01 All right. Anyways, I just want to say thanks Mom. I really am glad that we were able to do this even from distance.

44:12 I think this is a good good positive conversation.