Josephine Rosner and Jonathan Schwartz

00:00 One second here.

00:05 Hello, my name is Jonathan Schwartz. And I'm the director of Jewish life here at the selfhelp home. I'm 51 years old. And today is Friday December 13th, 2019. We're here in Chicago, Illinois, and I'm thrilled and excited to be interviewing Josephine finis Rosner who is a resident here at the selfhelp home and my relationship to finis is her friend.

00:35 Oh.

00:38 I don't really high and Jonathan. My name is Finney Rosner.

00:44 And you want my age?

00:47 95 years old. I'm really agent.

00:53 And today's date is December 13th, 1920 19 and where in Chicago?

01:02 The name of the interview Partners Jonathan Schwartz who happens to be one of those instructors of this of this place?

01:11 But he's also my dear friend. I look upon him as a friend.

01:20 Okay. I'm so glad we're going to just chat Finney. I'm just going to ask you some questions maybe reflect on your childhood a little bit what you've learned over the years.

01:34 No, right or wrong answers. Of course. We just want you to speak from I just want you to speak from the heart.

01:40 Avenue five

01:43 As you know, I'm very fond of you and I think you've led a remarkable life. Can you tell me a little bit where you were born where and when you were born in a little bit about your early life. I was born in Vienna, Austria.

02:02 And I lived there until I was until the Articles happened and then we left Jenna and I came here.

02:12 What do you remember about the apartment you lived in in Vienna was a lovely apartment seven rooms. Nice big apartment.

02:22 And very comfortable and my grandparents my oma and opa lives with us.

02:27 And they had a big.

02:29 Room in the back of the apartment

02:33 And

02:36 Well, you put you can put a card down if you want if it's yeah, what did the describe the apartment a little bit? I know them feels apartment.

02:47 It was large.

02:50 And I spent a lot of time Terry.

02:54 And I can walk in there right now and tell you where I'm going.

03:00 As I walk in the front door.

03:03 And I make a left turn.

03:06 Which is my father's office.

03:09 And then I made a right turn.

03:13 In the kitchen was on my right and my grandparents lived way in the back.

03:20 And my mother and father had a beautiful bedrooms a little further and I had a little bedroom.

03:27 In that same area

03:30 I spend my time.

03:33 And

03:36 I love being there.

03:38 I truly loved being there.

03:42 I think it was a beautiful apartment. I love being there. I didn't expect if I have to leave there, but I had to leave.

03:50 What did before the onslaught? What do you remember? Do you have memories of celebrating Shabbat in the holidays holidays, we we we set a guard at the high holidays. Yeah, but in the house did your mom or grandmother cook was there while they cooked for the house? You have a hired cook we had a maid.

04:14 But everybody had them made in those days. Are there any special Foods or Roma's you remember from those early years in Vienna?

04:25 I remember.

04:27 The food was was very good.

04:30 And Myoma used to bake

04:33 Highway only in the high holidays

04:37 And she didn't cook much else.

04:39 She was busy combing her hair.

04:46 At curly hair like Oma as you can tell and she was busy combing. Her hair was very is Essences and things that you had on Earth.

04:56 And her little

04:57 Beauty table

05:02 But you used to take me for walks.

05:07 So is my old phone?

05:10 He told me for walks a lot. No matter what the weather was.

05:16 And I had whooping cough.

05:19 And in those days you haven't called you were out into the fresh cold air cuz that was supposed to be Curative.

05:27 Today at work. I guess it did my old photo before work and we went into usually when it's in the boonies.

05:37 A little suburbs and

05:42 We went we went to the ice officer and which is the place of paper.

05:50 Logo on it.

05:55 I just love you. Don't I just love this. I don't let it ice skating. Yes. Yes. I just kidding me. I had a beautiful ass kicking me, Indiana.

06:03 And I used to feel the especially on weekends and we stand there and watch them skate cuz I didn't know how.

06:11 And besides

06:13 And it was my grandparents should I wasn't allowed to do anything that was going to give me a sore throat or a cold or something. So I never went any place that could give me a call.

06:26 We went there on Sundays and we went to the park and then my uncle used to have me stop and I could pick out.

06:35 Whatever, whatever pastry I want it in and whatever beautiful little pastry shops available.

06:47 I love being with him. He was a wonderful man.

06:53 That's a wonderful memory. He was a wonderful man. What language did you take when you were younger?

07:06 How when you were younger, you know growing up in this apartment.

07:13 Were most of your friends Jewish or were your friends everything and anything?

07:20 A kiss it went to school with me with largely Jewish, but we had a number who were not.

07:28 But my old friends were Jewish and who did not survive.

07:38 So how old were you when you started high school they give you went to a gym now seeing which tells a little bit what that is, maybe not everybody knows what I've given him is a higher level high school.

07:54 And tell it was Private School.

07:59 And you have to pay tuition.

08:04 And I like going there was not far from where we lived.

08:08 Boys and girls are just girls just girls.

08:13 Just girls

08:15 I like the school. What did you do? What were some of your favorite subjects or what? Do you remember enjoying are excelling at liking the English was very important to me and I was doing well in that.

08:30 I never liked math or science particularly.

08:38 But we have all these of the professor we called them professors hit me when little kids movie called some professors.

08:47 And I'll never forget Professor Vista and she taught.

08:54 English

08:57 And she talked laughing.

09:02 And I have great memories of her. She was very tough.

09:07 Very tough we have to stand at attention until she came in and it was seated at her desk. We did not sit down until she was seated at her desk.

09:16 That was the routine Professor. We said we could hear her coming clap clap clap with the hills. And once she was seated at her desk having front we were able to sit down.

09:30 And I should take her attendance very good teacher. She taught me grammar like no one else did.

09:38 To this day. I know grammar.

09:40 Anyone want to be an English teacher right here in America? Yes.

09:45 So you really credit her with your starred in your love of little English literature essay.

09:56 Tough lady when she was wanting she cried when she we went to visit her my friend dirty and I burn to visit her before we left and she cried.

10:07 Virtual vision

10:09 If the children came to visit her she cried, I don't think she survived.

10:18 All right. She had no one to go to.

10:21 Her mother was an old lady and had died.

10:25 The lovely apartment

10:29 And she was a single woman surviving as a single teacher single woman. So how old were you?

10:37 Wendy on Schloss began when I came to this country. I was 13. Okay, so when they are sloths began in 1938

10:49 I don't know if you want to talk about it a little or if it was not it was not a pleasant thing in my life.

10:58 I knew it started and I know when it happened and I know I have to go to school and my mother have to go to school in and sign me up and pay tuition and all that.

11:13 The Angelus was unpleasant part of the law of life.

11:19 We could not do what we wanted.

11:24 Was it sudden or was it gradual restrictions on your life as a Jew or was it the answers was part of the annexation from explain that you sure the annexation of Austria to Germany.

11:41 Know when I say annexation, I don't mean he was a

11:47 Voluntary or

11:50 Something that they plan to do.

11:54 It just happened.

11:58 Austria was put part of their.

12:01 They thought of themselves as Austria spite of their country.

12:06 At the annexation happen because they wanted Australia be part of their country.

12:11 And we all spoke German.

12:16 And I remember the first.

12:20 Professor that we had

12:23 And it was put functional.

12:25 What's a nice man?

12:31 And he found some sort of it was from what I understand. Is he found some sort of?

12:37 Job

12:39 In Southern Illinois is a small school.

12:42 The teach

12:44 Chris Pontius make lovely, man.

12:49 What are you?

12:51 Remember, I know you want to talk to me about.

12:56 Sing the Nazis March down the street from your window and I.

13:03 Yeah, go ahead.

13:05 We are apartment faced.

13:08 The main street in the neighborhood fish called top, West Asia.

13:14 And I remember seeing the street. I remember them Nazis March down the Main Street.

13:21 And they drove down with the the wagons.

13:26 At the flags

13:28 And whatever music they had.

13:31 And they marched down the street. What did your parents tell you about what it meant or did they not listen to my mother? You better write to your sister today? Not tomorrow.

13:46 And tell her what's happening.

13:48 And she brought her sister Miriam.

13:51 Who lives in Chicago with her family?

13:56 And she sent us if it Davis.

13:59 It's how we got you.

14:02 She sent us a David's will be spoken English. We all spoke German.

14:11 And I went well, you're not too familiar with that schools. I went to Sullivan High School.

14:18 It was the local.

14:21 High School in the area

14:27 And I didn't know so.

14:31 I didn't know a soul and I didn't speak English.

14:35 And they were all cute kids nicely dressed and then there was me with the curly hair.

14:43 United I enjoyed being in the school

14:48 Stop. School.

14:53 Evan French classes

14:56 I couldn't get used to the French teacher because her ex and was horrible awful.

15:05 But I went to the class.

15:10 And did one Professor whose name was Coby Weiss.

15:15 Jacob Weiss

15:17 Free and Manfred Mann, I don't think you made it.

15:22 And he taught the classes and he called us all sorts of names because we were stupid.

15:29 I've been against Halos Azle. So he was a teacher back in Vienna in Vienna.

15:42 So you are young woman young teenager growing up here in Chicago.

15:49 Did you still feel Austrian or did you simply just close that door and say now? I'm an American and let her get on with Bill.

15:59 No, I didn't feel an American.

16:03 No, I stressful as we spoke English.

16:09 And we did all the things that we did those of us who is still in the city.

16:13 I went to a sticker to a theater into it all kinds of things in my parents did their thing.

16:22 And I was used to being Indiana.

16:26 I was not really looking around going any place else.

16:30 When did you start to feel like an American was there an event? I guess when I came here? Okay. Yeah, that's yeah, that's kind of what was there a particular event or time when you either mastered English or your first American boyfriend to her know or knows a moment when you began to feel American?

16:52 I don't know. I just live there.

16:56 In My Home In My Father's House. You didn't hit walking with any first boyfriend's it just didn't exist. My father was very rigid very strict.

17:13 And we lived it on everybody who came for homeschool German.

17:19 We had whatever festivals we not home all the holidays when I hope

17:26 But if we had a maid and Myoma twice a year

17:32 Coke twice a year, she made the meaning of English practice.

17:44 Tell me the German word. Maybe I can she bake the braided braided fitted it once a year.

17:56 For which holiday holidays?

18:03 High holidays and she also made of the things he made the get filter fish.

18:08 They weren't particularly wonderful.

18:12 But you made them.

18:14 And she never really

18:16 Her cooking was really Limited.

18:19 To the kitchen

18:22 She didn't have time.

18:25 And she was busy.

18:29 Over here

18:31 How when the war was over and you were settled here and beginning your life as a young woman here in America?

18:41 How did you feel about your former neighbors your your fellow austrians? The non-jewish ones did you?

18:48 Was it a conflicted feeling or did you have nobody else has difficult?

18:55 We left them as you left the school.

18:59 You have to leave the school. I couldn't stay there.

19:04 When you say you had to leave the school where you kicked out?

19:08 Or was just understood that you were not detected. You were not to come back LV. The Jewish children did not stay.

19:17 Did you ever go back to Vienna after the win X I have come to stare your weather.

19:28 And I have cuts and I'm very close to and I go there whenever I and she comes and visits us.

19:35 And I love I love it gotta understand something. I love being, Indiana.

19:41 If you gave me a ticket today.

19:45 And said, go ahead we'll get Leaf tomorrow morning.

19:50 You have to wait for the door to slam behind.

19:54 I couldn't wait.

19:56 I love being in the city was a wonderful City.

20:01 I'll show you pictures you've ever sure.

20:05 Was

20:08 I don't know how to I don't know how to ask this. But how was your love for Vienna?

20:16 On the minister. How did you keep that intact knowing that you and your family essentially where exiled you were kicked out or if not you left voluntarily. But if you hadn't you would have been murdered, how do you how do you reconcile that with your lovely head to leave? Right it was that simple we had to leave and we knew that our

20:38 Did our apartment was given to some deserving Nazi family.

20:46 It was left Sarah with all the furniture and all the paintings and everything. So we took nothing with us.

20:56 I didn't my thoughts which were

21:02 I had to leave.

21:05 I had to leave and I did not go to the same place where I used to live.

21:13 So when you went back, you didn't go visit or look at the apartment building that used to live in that. You took my children. Oh, you did go by children. Also leave the home that we lived.

21:25 Yes.

21:27 They birthday loved it. It was interesting.

21:31 No white when I go to VN, I see my cousin my cousin Monique and she comes to visit us here.

21:41 If ever you have a chance.

21:44 There's certain places in Vienna that you should see.

21:48 Because it's a gorgeous City.

21:52 It's a beautiful clean City.

21:57 It is beautiful buildings.

22:02 Beautiful museums and beautiful

22:06 And I remember exactly how it looked from right here. And right now I know exactly how it looks.

22:13 The building where we live so I can tell you exactly how it looks.

22:19 It's really quite remarkable that you were able to compartmentalize or put away any.

22:27 Bad feelings are negative feelings about the Nazis or the austrians and just focus on your love of the city many people would have a hard time doing that. I know I love the city.

22:38 I love the theater I loved all that.

22:43 Which does not?

22:45 Override my feelings about the Nazis the Nazis came and did what they did.

22:53 I never never gave it a positive thought to them.

23:00 Because how could a

23:08 They were strange group. They walked into a room apartment once

23:14 What's a uniform Center?

23:18 The essay storm upside down looking for my mother.

23:24 I consider this the miracle of my whole life. Why were they looking for your mother?

23:30 They walked in looking for my mother.

23:33 Because one of the maze

23:36 Had claimed that she did not pay her enough.

23:40 She went and did that to another woman that was with it where she worked.

23:46 It's just amazed. She was a real.

23:50 From the country a real country boob

23:57 And she's claimed that they didn't pay her enough.

24:01 So they came and picked her up.

24:05 And my mother went with them.

24:07 They took them to the

24:11 Building worlds of the Nazi officer's where's the house?

24:16 Not far from us.

24:20 And my mother said she walked in.

24:24 In one of the offices with Saturday at the front realtor.

24:33 Tell my mother I said hi.

24:35 I need to put next to it to another office.

24:39 And there another official set?

24:43 And said to my mother last tunze here, what are you doing here? And I hope that you are an idiot why you asked you?

24:53 They can pick this up.

24:58 And then

25:02 The miracle of it all was the man at the office as we walked in was an old-fashioned of my fathers.

25:11 Your father was a doctor. And you said the man at Nazi headquarters who was processing people said to my mother, so I was upset.

25:24 He called her see in Germany and Austria if your husband is a doctor you are called file doctor.

25:34 Which would an English B misses? Dr. Rosen?

25:39 And I said to my mother giving you money with you my mother at 10 marks with her.

25:45 And he's asked her to make a donation to the part. I

25:50 Got the party has the party party. She had to TenMarks with her. She gave him her TenMarks, and that was the donations of Part. I

26:02 And they sent her home.

26:05 And I told that the miracle of my young life.

26:10 Cuz it was an absolute miracle.

26:13 They sent me home and my muzzle. I didn't expect to see you again.

26:24 Phinney let's let's switch gears a little bit and talk about the mean you had a great life. You live 95 years so far.

26:37 Accomplish great things beautiful children that successful career as a teacher here.

26:43 What what are what's the greatest joy of your life as you look back even though there's more to come but as you look back, what's the greatest joy, I love living there.

26:57 So the greatest joy of your aunt and your whole life and I'm not trying to tell you the truth. I loved living in Vienna.

27:05 I love the city. I love my home. I love my school. I love my friends.

27:12 Who's question ended up dying?

27:15 But I loved my home and I left all the stores and everything else. Did you ever consider moving back after the Warsaw in the 50s or 60s?

27:25 Out of question

27:28 Why if I Married An American you loved it so much. Why was it out of the canary? Did American who was born in Chicago and like most Americans spoke only English?

27:43 I had no.

27:45 I just loved it. That was my great. Love I was a real Viennese.

27:52 And I love the city. I love going to concerts. I love to go to the museum. So you going everywhere.

27:59 And I learned a lot I mean everything. I know I learned as a young child.

28:08 So what is as you look back at your whole life in Vienna and here in Chicago? What is what does it mean to you to be Jewish?

28:18 And

28:20 Does it mean something different today than when you were young girl? No, I didn't think of it. I mean

28:26 It was just part of me.

28:29 Do you know what I mean?

28:31 I did not go up to anybody insist. Guess what I'm doing.

28:36 I don't.

28:38 It's okay go on. Whoever you are. I did not.

28:46 Claim to be I just it was what I was.

28:52 It is cool. I just was a group of Jewish children taking was because Jewish Education was

29:01 What do you call it?

29:04 Mandatory mandatory mandatory

29:11 Effect on my papers it says

29:16 Mosaic

29:18 Swish

29:22 What did what did it feel like?

29:26 To be Jewish here in Chicago. Was it a big part of your life or just sort of part of who you were? Do you know what this part of my life? I mean I joined

29:35 There is organizations in the school among Jewish.

29:43 And other night I died.

29:46 Did a lot of things to do with people did.

29:51 I don't know.

29:54 We didn't do too many unusual things.

30:00 I went to see her.

30:04 I went to films.

30:07 I joined Steuben a bris.

30:10 It seems like that.

30:13 It didn't draw me.

30:17 But I joined them.

30:20 Any urine a Zumiez match?

30:24 Is being Indiana.

30:27 You're in a unique position.

30:30 Having lived through the beginning of Nazism of the on Slauson being a refugee of the Holocaust.

30:39 To evaluator of feelings about the current rise of anti-Semitism that we're seeing here in America, and of course in Europe and other places

30:50 What's your perspective monitor are people taking it seriously enough or they overreacting or neither. I don't think people takes hit only in the sense that they didn't realize what was happening to have no idea.

31:07 You know what? I mean? Why do you think people are more aware or conscious more Vigilant today? I think they are today.

31:17 But living in Vienna, we just

31:21 This is part of life.

31:24 Can my old pup got up in the morning went to the he was a seat on the bus with just means what it was the the breast.

31:36 The portal conversion

31:39 That was the name of the production process.

31:41 I need to see them there for many years. Is that a stock exchange is a seat on the stock exchange? Yes. Yes.

31:52 It was big nice building not far from my house.

31:55 And used to go there. He sometimes take me to Sis look around.

32:02 And strangely enough more than I thought at one of my daughter Ellen's friends.

32:08 Married an Austrian who works at the building

32:15 Auntie lives there

32:21 So I just want to wrap up first of all, it's wonderful to talk to you and I feel like you taking me back to pre-war Vienna and I have a picture of it.

32:31 What if you were going to be Anna I'd be very happy to take you a long and I would like no one better to be my guy than you cuz you know, I went to Prague last summer and I wasn't he went to get a Vienna. So that'll be the next trip. So, what's the first place you would show me in Vienna?

32:51 Well, I would show you the different parts are used to spend time.

32:59 The beautiful streets to shopping States

33:04 The downtown area

33:07 And we could go to the to the

33:10 What does a beautiful day at the Museum said to museums for Maria Teresa said in the center?

33:22 And the art museum was on one side and Thea.

33:27 The museum was on the other side of the Maria Theresa.

33:36 And it would take you there.

33:38 My kids love going there.

33:42 And they love going to the

33:45 There's a museum there we could step outside.

33:49 And you look outside you see the entire city.

33:54 It's just beautiful and sounds lovely. I hope we get a chance to go together someday help you the old I can please do you have my word? I'm going to make it a point to get the Vienna. At least it would not go with you and it's been a real pleasure. I love to hear your your wisdom your memories and and it's so important share that with all of us. Thank you so much. So easy to talk to you. I had such lovely friends.

34:25 My girlfriends

34:28 Dirty

34:30 And kitty

34:33 And they were shot.

34:38 They took them to the woods.

34:45 And they designed them up.

34:50 Because that's what they did.

34:54 And what it was?

34:56 Left Behind series another group and I forgot what it was shot them in the bag.

35:04 And I never got a chance to see them.

35:07 But these are my good friends my good little friends.

35:16 Thank you for any.

35:21 Are you done with me?