Joshua Gilmour and Killion [No Name Given]

[00:02] JOSHUA GILMOUR: Today's date is November 6th of 2020. My location. I'm in Wichita, Kansas, and my conversation partner's name is Killion and I have no relationship to him. We are complete strangers and I'm looking forward to this.

[00:20] KILLION: Very good. My name is Killion and I'm 56 years old and today's November 6, 2020. I'm in Cheney, Kansas, and Josh is my partner and he is our one small step partner.

[00:36] JOSHUA GILMOUR: So, Killion like, why did you want to do this? What was your, like, personal reason for wanting to do this?

[00:44] KILLION: Well, I think part of it was I look the part, but I don't fit the mold and I'm an old white guy. But I've been staying quiet for four years and seeing lots of mansplaining and not being able to be able to talk a little bit and reach out and talk to somebody a little bit different and find some middle ground.

[01:05] JOSHUA GILMOUR: What do you feel like you've been quiet about?

[01:08] KILLION: Oh, I think just where I am. I always say I'm a radical purple moderate. I'm right square in the middle. But anything left or right in a smaller town and in a lot of family connections feels like it's in left field. And so trying to find some normal out there, I think is part of it.

[01:31] JOSHUA GILMOUR: Fair enough, Fair enough.

[01:35] KILLION: Good. Josh, why did you want to do this interview today?

[01:42] JOSHUA GILMOUR: So I have a family that's full of dramatically far right folks. I love every one of them, but it's very difficult to have a conversation like this with a family member that has such dramatically different views. I feel like your description of yourself actually is a relatively accurate description of myself as well. I mean, to be honest, and even with that moderate, left leaning but moderate disposition, it's still difficult with the people that I'm around most often, which is my family. And when I heard this while I was listening to npr, I was like, oh, wow, this is an amazing opportunity just to listen to someone. I feel like we don't listen to people enough from a real perspective. And I say we collectively like, as a society, it doesn't seem like we listen enough. And I thought it's a great opportunity to listen to someone that may be different than me.

[02:54] KILLION: In a way. I think that's true. I think there's so much in life that's good to talk about outside of things. And I think the other part is that I think so much time we spend on trying to say instead of trying to figure out what's the right thing to do or just to lighten up a little bit and share what's in common. I'm with you.

[03:15] JOSHUA GILMOUR: So I see your bio. I'm just going to read it out loud so I can process it again. Which is your lifelong Kansan, lifelong learner. You're a teacher's kid who grew up in a small town. I grew up in a small town as well. We got that in common, for sure. Sense of community and leading by example instead of with words. While working in high school, you. While working in high school and at college, apparently I need a new pair of glasses. Killion While working in high school and college at a newspaper with a local economy law and the law enforcement courts, local politics gave you a lot of exposure to a lot of different people. I can see where that would be the case for sure. What, what did you do working with the newspaper? What was your role there?

[04:10] KILLION: Well, as I started out, I was planning to go into journalism, so just really wanted to learn about a little bit of everything. So kind of that ace cub reporter and had a good editor who was just good about mentoring and learning, but just really getting out and talking to the local sheriff, going to the city commission meetings, sitting in court. And sometimes it's watching a civil court when somebody's getting the car repossessed. Sometimes it's criminal court. And that's life. You know, a lot of times people, we don't have those opportunities to see some of those things going on. So I felt pretty lucky about that. It kept me humble, too, because, you know, whatever you wrote about or worked on, you usually saw that person the next day or the next week. So it was hard to be anonymous. I was humbled very quickly a couple of ways. One is that I wrote up. I wrote up my first accident report and was reading a police report, and it was a fender bender where a gentleman in a truck had hit a deer. And as soon as the paper came out, he came in the next day and he says, this look like my left front fender. And I go, no, it looks like your right front fender. You know, you learn by wisdom sometimes. And that was one of them. Another time I was. I just graduated high school and the society editor had been there for years, and I walked in to start my summer, and she had gone to Topeka for her grandson's graduation. Fallen and broken both arms. And of course, we were still with IBM, Selectrics and typewriters. And she was a society editor and had written up weddings and engagements and all that stuff. So I was having to write weddings for about three or four Weeks. And I knew nothing about taffeta or pink or dress types or anything. So you just, you just learn to make do and go. And I think the other part that was neat about that is I, as I delivered bills up and down Main street, you learned what people who paid their bills and who didn't, and kind of the backside of Main street that didn't make the headlines every day. So you learned.

[06:12] JOSHUA GILMOUR: You learn a lot of ways and not really like to know all that about what's going on in everyone's life in such a small town. Like, I grew up in Augusta, Kansas, so it's probably about the same size. And I, like, I can't imagine what it's like to know all that. These intimate details that you're hearing in court that, like me, for example, would never know. But you also have to not look at them differently as just another citizen in the town.

[06:41] KILLION: Right.

[06:42] JOSHUA GILMOUR: That's got to be hard, right?

[06:44] KILLION: It is. It is. But some of it's sympathy, too. You do you just realize it's impacting them? It's not something that just like watching on TV and it goes away the next day. It's impacting them. Yeah.

[06:58] JOSHUA GILMOUR: Did you. Did you find yourself judging them ever?

[07:03] KILLION: You know, I don't think so. I think it was more of empathy or sympathy. You know, what was done was done. It was just trying to figure out what happens from there and how they.

[07:11] JOSHUA GILMOUR: Recover from it, how they fix it.

[07:13] KILLION: Yeah. Yeah. Let's go to your profile. Here we go. My name is Joshua Gilmour I grew up in Kansas, but have lived in Seattle, Denver, Colorado Springs, San Francisco, and Northwest Arkansas. I'm a franchise business consultant for an international home services franchise. I'm a divorced father of four amazing girls, ages 20 10, 8 and 7. They spend half their time with me and half the time with their mother. I'm mostly agnostic. I lean left on most political topics. I'm a reasonable, understanding person, but still hold strong opinions, so. Good. Well, guys, the thing that popped out was mostly agnostic. So I was curious there. What was the one moment or event or things that you found out how or when you were agnostic?

[08:02] JOSHUA GILMOUR: So, you know, when we were getting prepared for this conversation, I knew that was going to be someone's first question. And on one hand I dreaded it, but on the other hand, like, okay, you know, it's not like I haven't talked about it before. So I grew up as a Jehovah's Witness, and that is a very different religious existence than your standard. Like, I go to Catholic church, I go to a Lutheran church, I go to a Protestant church, I go to whatever. And so because of, you know, growing up in what essentially was a really high control religious environment, it molded the way I thought about things very quickly from a young age. And I specifically remember when I decided that this God stuff was for the birds. And I was very young, I was 12. And like, I feel like no 12 year old should be having to have that conversation internally.

[09:19] KILLION: That's a lot. That's a lot at 12. Oh my God.

[09:22] JOSHUA GILMOUR: It was, it was a lot. But it was also, I'm like, I also try not to like, I'm on, I'll be 40 in April, so I'm many, many years past that. And you know, you can ask as much as you want about this. If you want more details, happy to share it. But it was a, it was a very rough existence from a social and religious standpoint. Like we just couldn't be a part of the regular society. You were completely bifurcated. There was no mingling with anyone outside of the church. And if you did, then that was, you know, that's it, you know, you're, you're, you're shunned and you're kicked out and whatever. And so that really formed my very young opinion on, oh well, if this is what, if this is what God's all about, then I don't want anything to do with that. And it turned into kind of an agnostic, semi atheist belief, to be honest with you. It's changed over the years to a certain extent, but I believe that I still strongly hold a lot of that formative experience and my personality as it sits today.

[10:40] KILLION: Major, who you are for what you are. Right. Wow. So curious question. And through that, as I was thinking about last night, what I wanted to ask is I think about the concept of faith. So do you have faith in something or faith in somebody? That was just a curious question. I didn't know how to answer.

[11:08] JOSHUA GILMOUR: No. I guess the short answer is no. But as you, I'm sure you fully know and understand it's far more complex than just a two letter word. You know, I can't just say no to that. And that's the honest truth. Do I have faith in, you know, the same, the same concept of like a God that, you know, many, many, many people do. The answer to that would definitely be no. Do I think that we're all just a bunch of, you know, free radical molecules just. No, I don't think that either. But is there some Sort of human and, or otherwise connection that exists. Is that possible? 100%. I can't deny it because I can't prove 100% that it's inaccurate. Right. The existence of God or a higher power or a creator. I can't deny it because it's. I would be, I would be false. Right. I would not be looking at accurate information because that's just not real. I just have a hard time believing it. And what you said about faith, like I have a heart, like I think about things very analytically. I mean, it's part of my job to be right. Before our call, I just got done doing a gigantic budget for a $40 million company. I like numbers and analytics where my mind goes right. So I think of such a concept of God where I've got to have faith. It's really difficult for me to grasp. Be honest.

[12:53] KILLION: Well, and I think, you know, we're both dads and we're both. And my late father in law, he always talked about we're all on a similar journey, we're just taking different paths, you know. And I think you and I are both trying to provide for our children. And you know, older I get, I find out things about giving and gratitude and that's not a religion thing. And I think, I think hope and love aren't a religion thing. I think we have all those things, they're just expressed a little bit differently.

[13:22] JOSHUA GILMOUR: Well, I think you're right. Like if you look at a child that doesn't know anything about religion or anything about human defined morals, etc. Etc. That's just the, that's the purest, you know, it's the purest sense of being a human. Like they're just, they're kind, they're loving and all of the things that, that make them otherwise, they learn they're not born, you know, vicious or they're not born resentful or they're not born, you know, riddled with anxiety or you know, all the things that we have forced upon us. And to your point, Yeah, I see it. My kids all the time, they're just, it's wonderful. But I also see the impact of, you know, interaction with just people in general and some of the learned behaviors that they get over time.

[14:14] KILLION: So that's true. You know, I felt fortunate with my father and he's Christian, but I'm not sure. Very religion specific, church based. But he always has said God gave you a brain and use it. So it was more about questioning things and figuring things out. And I think maybe There's a little bit of middle ground in there that we all have some intelligence, and we don't have to shut things off in the face of beliefs.

[14:41] JOSHUA GILMOUR: How did that work for you, though? Like, God gave you a brain. Music question things to me, based on the way that I grew up, there was no questioning anything.

[14:51] KILLION: Right.

[14:52] JOSHUA GILMOUR: And when I hear questioning and religion in the same sentence and it's not a negative thing, it literally blows my mind, Gillian. Like, I just don't grasp it. To me, from my experience, it's been that, like, that's got to be pretty awesome, right? Like.

[15:09] KILLION: Right. You know, I was pretty fortunate, and it was more of a concept, and I grew up Methodist, and it was more of like, you go to church because you want to, not because you have to. And there were times, too, we sometimes struggle with pastors, and mom was in the long run to say, pastors come and go, that the church will be here. Oh, she's not like a smart person, man. No kidding. That's all. But. But as I question things, Josh boy, when I turned about 19 or 20 in college, I'm going, well, why am I Methodist? You know, I've been around it. I knew it, but I wasn't sure. And so, you know, my. I took a little bit different turn than you did and found some things about faith and some things that happened in my life. And then seven years ago, my wife's Catholic, and I actually turned and joined the Catholic Church, which I. If you would have told me that 20 or 30 years ago, I would have fallen over. And I'm more of a social progressive Catholic from probably stuck in the 60s than what's. What's pretty strident now, but I like the structure. I like the structure of the service in. With Old Testament, New Testament, and just having some structure, predictability one day a week that I don't have the rest of my week. And I grew up in a musical household, and part of my expression for that is music, and that's where I can get some of that. So everybody's different on where they get value and worth from that. Hey, let's go on to the next question. Sarah Jane's kicking in here on questions. Let's see. I'll do this. Who has been the most influential person in your life, and what did they teach you?

[16:50] JOSHUA GILMOUR: That's such a hard question.

[16:52] KILLION: It is.

[16:57] JOSHUA GILMOUR: I think. I think it's my dad, as much as I can say that maybe from a negative perspective about the way that I grew up religiously, from just a family standpoint he's literally the best person I've ever met in my life. He had a. Sorry, he had an accident when he was 27, before I was born. And he was in a coma for three months and he was hit by a car. He was pulling up from the stop sign. There was a car going like 90 miles an hour down a side street, you know, and just his head swelled up. He was in a coma for I think it was nearing three months. And one day just like came out of it. It clearly wasn't the same. He had to relearn how to walk and talk and read and write and use the bathroom like he was an infant. And to this day, he still just. He has tenacity that is unparalleled by anyone I've ever met. And I got to learn what it meant to go do hard work and to be proud of something and to literally never give up. I just. I just don't give up. And I got that from him. And I would say that given the trajectory of my life, clearly, as you can tell, I'm 39 and I have a 20 year old, actually 21 year.

[18:54] KILLION: Old as of three days ago.

[18:56] JOSHUA GILMOUR: Yeah, 21 on election day. So that was not the easiest start to life. It just wasn't. But I just, I don't think I knew that I was applying the things that I learned from him. It was just the example that was set. And watching someone, you know, be tenacious and always, you know, always keep going and never give up. That even through some really, really tough stuff growing up, watching them deal with, never gave up. I would say that's unequivocally, now that I'm saying it, there is no one else that could even compare. Lots of influential people, but hands down, formed the person I am today. No question.

[19:42] KILLION: What a gift. That's a great gift.

[19:46] JOSHUA GILMOUR: What about you?

[19:47] KILLION: Well, you know, I thought that my short answer was probably my junior high civics teacher. That got me interested in Kansas history and American history and politics. And I've been on overdrive for three months lately. Love Kansas history. I think Kansas leads the country. A lot of times when things happen, you think about Civil War, you think about Summer of Mercy, you think about evolution debate, the brownback experiment. A lot of that stuff happens here before it goes nationwide. I like that. It's fun to follow, but if I dive a little bit deeper, I'm back to my folks. I'm like you, you think about that. And my folks very much had a sense of community. You lead by example. You do the right thing. You're not vocal about it. You're not braggadocious. You show by what you do. And I think that's been very helpful in my life and helped me in raising my children. And I think part of it is that I really like being part of a larger group or more bigger. Good. And so watching that growing up, they took me to the polls when I was 8 years old and 10 years old and going to learn how to vote. And dad was in Lions Club and when he had the band director, we had Memorial Day services and that was strictly voluntary because school was out by then. But we had, we would have 50 to 60 kids at the cemetery on Memorial Day playing marches for the, for the community, you know, and just teaching. Teaching people. Yeah, teaching people those things. There's things that are bigger than you that you need to be a part of. And I think that was good because I, you know, a few years ago I thought, well, Sesame street really helped me to be open minded and everything. I go, well, there's a lot of kids my age that watch Sesame street. But it didn't soak in. That really goes back to my folks. Right.

[21:36] JOSHUA GILMOUR: How do you think that that impacts like the, you know, the way that you deal with or raise your own children? Like, do you see some of that bleeding into your own rearing of children?

[21:47] KILLION: Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, you know, you had to push them a little bit on things in school and, and as they've gotten graduated and got out of college and things too about getting involved. But you know, there's different ways to make a difference and just trying to show them by example, but also just pushing them to do their part, to contribute, to step up.

[22:07] JOSHUA GILMOUR: So I mean, the next thing that I would, that I would ask you is kind of in the same vein, but did your parents, it sounds like your parents really informed your current view politically and maybe some of your political values. Is that a fair statement?

[22:34] KILLION: I think they were good about being open minded, but they were on opposite sides most of the time and didn't push me to be on one or the other side. And so I think they were good to push me to the middle. So I think that open discussion and talking about it helped me.

[22:53] JOSHUA GILMOUR: That's an enviable position from my perspective. I never had that. Like we actually. That religion is. They're not allowed to vote at all. Yeah. So like I'm hearing you talk, I'm like, oh my gosh, that sounds amazing to have grown up like that and to get that experience because Everything politically, they were just politically asexual. It was nothing. It was.

[23:26] KILLION: Wow, vacant. I wish we could have had you for supper, Josh.

[23:31] JOSHUA GILMOUR: Yeah, me too, man. We should organize this.

[23:38] KILLION: Yeah.

[23:39] JOSHUA GILMOUR: That sounds like a pretty cool existence growing up.

[23:42] KILLION: Well, thanks. Thanks. You don't realize sometimes don't realize things at the time until you get a little older and appreciate it. Next question. Could you briefly describe in your own words your personal political values?

[23:55] JOSHUA GILMOUR: Oh, my gosh. Be nice to each other. That's it. Be nice, for heaven's sake, be nice to each other. So, yeah, I'll go a little bit deeper than be nice, but I feel very strongly about a lot of things on the left side of politics, such as not the people on the right are not interested in equality, but I feel like the left's view of equality, as is generally portrayed, fits my view. And the way that I see everyone, I just. Although I'm not perfect, I think that there should be absolutely no judgment about anyone. Like you were kind of talking about earlier, that really, that. That made a lot of sense to me. Like, you were. You were talking about, you know, knowing the things from court, just not judging people, just seeing them as, hey, they had a hard time this day and they ended up in court or, you know, whatever. Like, not judging people and not making assumptions about people is important. Important to me. Even though, unfortunately, I'm human and I still do it. I work really hard to not do that. And I feel like that is a part of the conversation on the left of politics in this country that I really agree with, much like yourself. I feel like when it. I feel that when it comes to political conversation, a moderate view is always best because there is two sides to every. Every discussion. I do feel like some things are just flat wrong. I think that, you know, treating someone differently because they have a disability, treating someone different because of the color of their skin, treating someone differently because they're just different than you. I think it's just flat wrong, and I'm vehemently opposed to it. And sometimes I do struggle to see. To see that same. I struggle to find that same view when I'm talking to someone that's on the opposite side of the political spectrum. I feel like it's not the same coming from the other side. And even though I know, like, inherently, like, that's not correct, it feels like that, and I struggle with that quite a bit. Other political views that I have, you know, I'm very much on the left when it comes to helping people in, you know, rough spots. You know, government programs I'm 100% okay with. In fact, my brother and I were talking about this yesterday, and it was an interesting conversation. It was a good preparation for this conversation, to be honest. A lot of tolerance was displayed in that conversation by both parties.

[27:12] KILLION: Good.

[27:13] JOSHUA GILMOUR: But I really do feel like we have a moral obligation as a society to help each other. And I feel like the way that I think it should be done, maybe it's just different than the way other people think it should be done. So I try to keep that in mind. But I definitely lean far left on, like, social programs and things like that. I just think there's a massive need and a massive place. I'm not a massive fan of redistribution of wealth. I think that's kind of going a bit far.

[27:52] KILLION: And it's a ways.

[27:54] JOSHUA GILMOUR: I do think it's a bit far. But on the other hand, I think that without completely going down like, you know, a Marxist path, there is a way that we can help each other as a society. And people that do have more can help, and a lot of people do have more do help. And I certainly don't want to discount that, but I feel like there could be more of that and it might be a catalyst for really changing some of the things that are in our society that maybe are. Could be better. Right.

[28:32] KILLION: Right. Good. Well, mine, I kind of go back to the radical purple moderate. I used to say I was fiscally conservative and socially moderate, but fiscally conservative, I'm probably pretty moderate about that. I think if things make sense from. You think about schools or healthcare, if it makes sense to take care of things, I'm okay paying a little bit more to make things work, you know, we so intent on. So for me, it's like, if you can, if you show a good argument to me and a good reason to do things, and it's better for the community. Right. Better for the common good. Let's talk about it. Yeah, through there. So that's probably me. I think the other part in just watching with the coronavirus, but with other things, too, it's like it's not real till it's real and then it's real.

[29:22] JOSHUA GILMOUR: Yeah.

[29:23] KILLION: And so people can have pretty strident beliefs on things, and then life hits them in the nose and they go, oh, wait, maybe we ought to have generalizations and go, so, you know, my house, we joke where the house of compromise. Wife and I are from rival schools, and two of my three kids went to her school. So that didn't work out. So we have fun with It. And we were in two different churches. And now I've joined up, but very different through there. But early on, I had a monsignor talk to us. He said, you know, 85% of your two religions are the same. He said, those are the same. And then celebrate the 15%. And so I think from the political side, there's just a lot of noise there, but I think we have. And we just haven't done anything. I think if people just sit down and say, we've got to do things and let's figure out what works and both give up a little bit, let's do it. So I think I'm hitting that purple middle.

[30:24] JOSHUA GILMOUR: You know, clearly we were partnered up to have this conversation because we see certain things differently. What, What. Whether it's politically or religiously, because those. Those two topics, really, I think there's a lot to unpack there. A lot. Not between you and I, but just in general. Like, what. What are some of your. Really your core beliefs, you know, religiously, that inform your political view? Do you have anything like that? I have a dearth of that. I don't have any of that. I just have the political view. And then just what I think is being a good human. But you have something else that informs that.

[31:12] KILLION: Right, Right. And I think it's very much about. And it sounds like a broken record, but we're here for the common good. We're here for a bigger thing, things bigger than ourselves, that we need to take care of others. And how do we go about that and provide that? And sometimes it's in charity within churches, sometimes it's how we. In different ways that we can do that. But I think it's. For me, it's all God's children, no matter color or back or what it is. And everybody needs that. Everybody needs to be offered the same opportunities to succeed. And we're not there right now. And so we've got to figure out how do we get everybody to the table. Right. And I go back to that one video on YouTube where they have the kids lined up, and they said, if you have this, this and this, take a step forward or take a step back. And how many people are just so privileged and way out there before everybody else got started?

[32:06] JOSHUA GILMOUR: So do you ever feel like, you know, when you meet someone that's different than you or believes differently than you, that you're completely misunderstood? I can only imagine you would be as moderate as you are. You're Catholic in a small town, and you're conservative. Like, you've got to be completely misunderstood when you can't sit down and have a conversation with you like we're doing now.

[32:31] KILLION: Right, right. And sometimes, and I'm with you with family members, sometimes you just try to bring things and toss out a thing to talk about, and it's. You can't even get to the table. You try two or three different times, and it's a challenge. You're right, it is. And so it's just by luck sometimes. And as you talk, you find a few people around town that you can trade notes on politically and religiously. But it's. It's sometimes clandestine, unfortunately. But there's people around, they just aren't as. Not as vocal to be in the middle sometimes either.

[33:07] JOSHUA GILMOUR: Yeah, well, that's. The moderates don't get hurt often because we're quieter.

[33:14] KILLION: Oh, gosh. Well, let me ask you question through there. Do you ever feel troubled by people with the same beliefs as you and how they communicate those beliefs to others?

[33:24] JOSHUA GILMOUR: Can you. I think I see it, but could you repeat that? Because I didn't hear you very well, bud.

[33:28] KILLION: Oh, sorry. My apologies. Do you ever feel troubled by the people with the same beliefs as you, People from your own side of the aisle and how they communicate those beliefs to others?

[33:38] JOSHUA GILMOUR: Every day. Every single day. And yeah, every single day. I turned off my Facebook notifications about six months ago. And I did it because of the way that people communicate something that perhaps I would 100% support. So, for example, since this may go on the air, the person will go unnamed, have someone on a friend on Facebook that has very similar views as I do in regards to the Black Lives Matter movement. Right. I'm 100% in support. 100% in support. And have even been out a couple times as a demonstration is happening. I'll voice my support. I have no problem voicing that support. It's not a private, hidden support. It's an active support. And the way that this person was communicating their support was just over the top. It was vicious. It was violent. It was not. It wasn't with the spirit of what was trying to get done. It didn't have the same spirit. That disturbs me. And that's just one example. But yeah, man, all the time. I feel like tempered communication and calm words do a lot better.

[35:09] KILLION: Right.

[35:10] JOSHUA GILMOUR: And yelling and screaming. Even though the yelling and screaming gets heard louder or is heard because it's louder. Yeah. What about you? I mean, if you're. I gotta get this right. You're a radical, purple conservative, moderate. Moderate.

[35:26] KILLION: Or Moderate rpm.

[35:29] JOSHUA GILMOUR: Do you feel the same way? I can only help but to think you might.

[35:33] KILLION: Well, yeah, there's. Sometimes it's like, you know, what you're trying to say is good and you're on the right side of history probably. But boy, you're so strident about it. You're not going to win anybody. You're making the division further. I want to make sure I get this question in and keep going. So I apologize, but we're both dads and I have a 19 year old daughter and you have a now 21 year old daughter. Was 20. What do you want the world to look like in the next few years for our daughters?

[36:00] JOSHUA GILMOUR: Any percent better than what it is now? And I know that's generalized, but sincerely, I want, you know, all the opportunity that I have as a white male right in my late 30s for my, for my kids that are and will be women and wage equality, period. No questions. That has got to happen for my kids in particular because of the question you answered or you asked. But for everyone, it's just, it's got to be something we do something about. If there was one thing I had to pick, it would be that because so much of the challenges people have in life can really come back to earning potential or lack thereof. That's what I would say. What about you? What would you like to see for your kids change in the world in the near future?

[37:01] KILLION: Well, I think it's getting, like I said before, kind of getting everybody at the table and everybody having opportunity and things in the community and in society representing what it is. So if you think about a legislature that should be 50% female.

[37:18] JOSHUA GILMOUR: I couldn't agree more.

[37:19] KILLION: We're a long ways from that. And I think there's, there's value and in a lot of different ways for having a lot of different voices there. And we're just missing it right now. And gosh, I got a lot of work there. So everybody brings their value. And you know, I have two sons that are white males, but they have value as well too. But let's just get everybody to contribute and make it a better place.

[37:43] JOSHUA GILMOUR: And the only other thing I can think of that I would want different for my kids is less rancor, less divisiveness, less angst. I think that that's a nasty world to live in. And if just this conversation has just a tiny bit of impact for anyone or, you know, the multitude of these conversations that are happening all over, I hope that we as a collective group of people that have chosen to live Here. If we can just get it together and start communicating a little more, I'd like to see that for my kids as well.

[38:27] KILLION: Yeah, yeah. I think we've got to break through that fear and fear of others and fear of things that might or might not happen and life's too short, you know, it really is.

[38:39] JOSHUA GILMOUR: So I don't know who you voted for, but how do we come together? Because as a country after this election, this is like it's not even over. Right. We're still in the process. How do we all come together? Because we are ripped apart right now.

[38:54] KILLION: Regardless, I think we have to think of the long game. We have to show our own patience and I think we have to show some of our calmness with it too. My 94 year old father, he said, when Harry Truman took office, and if you remember back then, Harry was a vice president and then was in control of the atom bomb. My dad and dad was a lifelong Republican, a strident Republican at that point. He says, I thought the world was going to end. He said, you know what, Truman was a pretty good president, but if you would have talked to him on election day in 1948, probably wasn't feeling that for a while. So I thought, I kind of take some of that wisdom, go, okay, we got to think about the long game. Let the dust settle. But we've got to do our part to reach out to people and talk about things and say, let's go, let's, let's, let's get some things done.

[39:42] JOSHUA GILMOUR: I couldn't agree more. I know it's, it's basic political rhetoric like bring the country together, et cetera, but we really need to, like, we've got to talk to each other.

[39:50] KILLION: Yeah, yeah. And we gotta be comfortable to give each other a little bit of, not to tease each other, but give each other a little bit of trouble and go, look, it isn't that serious. I had a friend I worked with at a previous job 15 or 20 years ago and we disagreed on sports, religion, politics, and we were best friends. Yeah. And we loved going to lunch. And I miss his direct friendship living in the same town now, but we were healthy and we were okay. So I know it's possible. We just, we just got to get back to that, get back there and to have a beverage of our choice.

[40:25] JOSHUA GILMOUR: That's right. I think that's a great. If everyone could just sit down, have a conversation and a cocktail, we're all good. Right? Or beverage of choice.

[40:33] KILLION: Maybe it's an orthodox. Well.