Joshua Slotnick and Philip Burgess

00:00 We go.

00:01 Hello Unison storycorps. My name is Josh slotnick from 55 years old. It is June 10th. We are in my backyard on the back porch here in Missoula Montana interview my good friend Philip Burgess.

00:19 There you go with my friend. Now you go through the same thing. My name is my name is Philip Burgess and I'm 75 years old. It's Wednesday, June 10th. 2024 in Josh's backyard.

00:38 Missoula Montana and Missoula Montana and Josh slotnick and we're friends.

00:47 Leblanc's London ferry go. Okay. So Philip exist anymore in rural Montana and Farms wondering if you could just start describing what what that was like usually physically what was it like where you grew up?

01:12 It was a beautiful piece of landscape and that's a really important part of it. And it was just it was just a lovely space and the ranch buildings were on a hundred foot Bluff looking over the Missouri River Valley. We could see a mile and a mile and a half a river from our backyard and the Badlands came up from the far side of the river on the North side straight up in the air and the Great Northern Railroad east and west on the far side of the river. So I grew up.

01:51 With the river

01:54 With the visuals of the river and I grew up with the audio of the trains running and it was still Steamin I meant in so I would I remember as a child laying in my bed at night hearing steam-whistle bouncing the sound of a steamer bouncing lock the sides in the valley and it was the first Restless coming over me with the sound of those steam whistle. Resting was the blind wondering did you wonder where those chains were going? I didn't care and the so the landscape was beautiful. We were back behind us words was Rolling Hills and broken Badlands interspersed and but at the same time it was a beautiful place, but

02:54 Same time. We were a Hardscrabble working Ranch farm, and there was a sense of kind of desperation.

03:03 Attached showing one hand we have this beautiful landscape, but at the same time we were we were we were scrambling to survive in the midst of this landscape. And in the midst of the pretty dysfunctional extended family around the ranch together. My dad said that sometimes it was like Purgatory with a wonderful View. And so I also grew up with watching my mom and dad suffer.

03:36 You know, we did not have running water. If we did not have telephones. We didn't have electricity until I was six or seven years old. And so they did everything the hard way.

03:51 You know, it was extremely stressful for both of them to server four of us kids in this little three rooms three rooms in this little tree. I don't even remember for sure where we slept. I don't know where they put us in that little spend a lot of time outside. My mother was quite happy to have is outside a lot, but the landscape became a refuge.

04:26 From the dysfunctional extended family and from the stress of the almost claustrophobic physical thing three little rooms and do early on it became a refuge for me being outside and being outside by myself. Did you work with your dad at all? Well, as you know, the it was kind of a cultural thing where the kids as long as we were little and cute people knew what to do with this, you know, it was like play with us, you know about the time you stop being so little and cute around 5 or 6.

05:09 You are kind of on your own until you could start working.

05:16 When did you start working when you were five or six you started working as soon as you were because we didn't have running water. For example it involve carrying buckets of water to wash around the place, but it was my father could begin to relate to me again when I started getting an Alexa 13 and I could start doing men's work. And then we that was when our relationship became form because we started spending hours and hours together with our relationship.

06:02 He was

06:04 The least communicative person I've ever known and he was the best company. I think it was because I always felt accepted by him.

06:23 He never raised a hand to me.

06:26 You never yelled at me and his presence was so comforting. He was he was like the essence of protectiveness. It was like a papa bear or Laurel Papa wolf. You saw himself. He was there to protect couldn't talk to him, but he was there to protect and I just I just love being with that man and in his silence.

06:59 I said wow. Did he bring you around when he was working on the ranch? Did you just go with him or I had to you know, and again part of it was it was absolutely necessary not being given to me to teach me how to be there to be precise. It was like the work had to be done and I and I saw him everyday people.

07:24 I saw the physical results of that on his body. Did you feel any stress even as a 13 or 14 year old that you had a duty to relieve some of the stress or very much so, you know anything that I should do I wanted to do and I could take the pressure off him and intercourse.

07:48 You never thanked me.

07:50 Which was really funny until he was in his double ditch, you know when we were young but he had to read him like what kind of things we had Four Hundred Acre cropland out in the Hills that should never have been plowed and it should never farming at ground, but you couldn't just take it out of production that have three or four years we would have started. I didn't needed the money we had to have them and so there was this ambivalence about what we were doing out there. And one of the things that I could do is I could run the heck out of a tractor. I know you mode.

08:50 I go out there and they have to practically take me off the tractor because I would run that thing around what kind of operations were dating seating most of the tractor work out. There was some superficial plowing sit there and I will watch the cloud come up in the West End track that call.

09:21 Alter to landscape where you're not seeing another house another town another anything. Oh, I remember when the neighbors build the house about a quarter of a mile away, and I am interested put in our relationship and we couldn't see it from what you could see from up. There was just country.

09:51 It was just country we had you know, we had a lot of single and even Pelicans in the misery. They will follow the river. And so you would I would watch these tokens would come up and follow the tractor and stuff making its way across the sky in a Hardee's in the fall. Oh my God, you know what is washing stupid DC. So but you left it sounds beautiful and you left what what what happened there?

10:38 I consider myself in many ways to be a refugee.

10:45 From there

10:47 The Isle of the land but that ranch was not a place to be with the family. What do you mean? Well the extended family would like my uncle farm with my dad, you know, I'm selfish. You know, they didn't watch Oprah. They just did their job and their job was to take care of family, even if the family didn't deserve it until we were raised to leave.

11:43 Not to some degree. They wanted us gone, you know, you did encourage you to go to college. There was never a debate.

11:57 About going to call and they didn't go to college they my dad a sixth grade education. So what do you think the college was not so much of a reverence for education, but just a medium to get you out. It was both because the educational one of the sad memories that I have is that the school house the one they built three miles down the road this thing was built to last forever.

12:37 You know, it was in the monument. It was a money and dude that my dad was on the school board for like 25 years and education.

12:52 And and he was a Believer and as with my mother and when the time came my mother did the paperwork and they decided what school I was going to go off you went. I was not at $15 set of 10 luggage. I mean 10:10 like a real fragile weird stuff and I have $50 in my pocket cheapest it in Richland County and not know I was ready. Where'd you find that that that not scared us about the great. I know I wanted to go and where did you go? What do you call a very good?

13:52 Did they made financing available? Cuz we had no money to naive to be intimidated. How was it similar places in the midwest that can you find yourself?

14:20 Alone in your background

14:23 See I was so comfortable with being alone talking about how I saw myself in the world. So being alone.

14:44 You know, I which was really lucky because I had terrible study habits in the night shift gears wrapping me to think of you as someone with bad study habits, but they go together cuz I was going to read what I thought it was great when I finish with this racism exist in you know, so they were these things going on there were kind of on the dark side and the same time.

15:30 Sitting and listening to a live Orchestra in classical music. I couldn't get out of my chair.

15:40 You know, I mean I grew up they had to radio stations and it was all country western and in a Bobby didn't so there and being around these teachers were so excited.

15:57 And he treated me as though I had some significance. I got more individual attention in college than I ever had.

16:06 In that little grade school with 18 students into teachers. So how did that affect you in terms of the things I Never Told?

16:32 I've made up my mind to be a hobo by the time I was 11.

16:41 This is a great story timeline cross the river the same no good with cars and trucks. You had to be a little careful when you go.

17:14 One day and I must have been in the 5th grade.

17:19 Cancer

17:21 And I didn't pay too much attention that I was daydreaming as usual. I just watching the bridge. I was sit there and meditate on this shoot natural homeless man came walking down the road.

17:39 Around there a man walking on the road met a horse that Johnny more but the truck is broken down and a stranger.

17:51 Until I'm going

17:54 And he's got a net. I'd never seen.

18:00 And here's the thing. I came to recently I think he was at world war after he was in the right age group and he walked.

18:09 Barry reckley

18:14 In down the road and walked up the driveway and the teachers lock is in the reason he wanted a drink of water after some negotiation. He got a drink of water and I don't know anything. I don't guess him. I don't know where he came from. Okay, I got bored after a while. So I stopped paying attention.

19:04 Windows by

19:06 And he squashed I think for a moment.

19:13 Got on the train and ride it train you could ride the rails and I had this moment where I my God, he's free, and then I went to

19:35 I actually went to whisper the less fear you have fear. You are the less you have fear you are.

19:51 And that was the moment I was going to do that. So what did you do when you left college with this education College was a preparation. My mom wanted. Yes, I would be confined to go so I thought okay, I'll do that.

20:34 The college was kind of a barrier but also kind of help part of the preparation. So I'm doing this thing and I'm gearing up inside boy. I'm going to be out there.

20:44 Vietnam, so what year we talkin 66 do this? How do I handle because in terms of freedom, I made my decision to go into the army in Vietnam based upon my desire for personal freedom. And when I came to was that the only way I could really be free with people, you know, if 66 as a new college graduate, would you have been drafted if you didn't join up? I don't know how it will yes in all probability, but I actually had sense enough to see it more in terms of what was in here. Okay being free in here. If I if I let somebody, you know, you made the choice me making the choice.

21:44 I was raised on a ranch. Where is that you had to do the clean the chicken coop in it, right or turn and going to war to me was the equivalent of cleaning that was a combination of a sense of Duty and obligation and do what needs to be done. And also seeing this as an Avenue for getting out into the world. I didn't see it mean to DS patriotic but Duty as there's work to be done. No one to pay for your free right I hear is that no one and I actually got that early on just like I have to if I'm going to be free I have to do it in such a way that the burden

22:37 I'll be free if I don't survive. So what did you find when you want to be at now?

22:45 Vietnam was kind of actress. There was a Christian. Do you know what your college graduate going to be an officer? I was going to be an infantry officer.

23:03 And so there was a year of intense infantry training.

23:10 Which expose me to men who have been there?

23:14 I went into the army not with Illusions or delusions about the war because I had a lot of questions and I sense that the government really didn't know what the hell they were doing.

23:27 But I wasn't clear on whether or not we should be there. I didn't think anybody knew in that point as time went on is this Crescendo built of boxes in men that have been there, you know and everything it became clear to me that this was not.

23:47 Good idea.

23:49 And I also the realities of being an infantry platoon leader of realizing that my job was to get

24:00 Part of my job is to get people killed.

24:04 Part of your job was to get your own people killed. What do you mean?

24:16 You're going to die every minute going to die and

24:20 You're going to make mistakes that get people killed.

24:24 That's part of your job part of your job.

24:28 That was the reality that was sinking in to me during those two years of going and prepped for going over there was that and I was going to get men kill Vietnamese that Americans for a cause that didn't exist.

24:48 Did I didn't believe in the how how far into it were you when you had this realization that that cause wasn't there? It was kind of a growing. I was not I got it I had problems with some of my

25:04 The officers in school and I actually had a confrontation that were being physical and I and I blew up I wouldn't accept abuse problem. But the problem is Nate brought home my doubts. And so what happened was I ended up going to the doctor?

25:31 Of all things and saying put it on the line.

25:36 I had I had to wave my eyes to get into infantry. You know, I had to my eyes are too bad.

25:44 And I went to the doctor and I stuck on I said about my doubts and I said if there's any but I want is a physical.

25:53 A complete physical and if there's something there that get me out of the Infantry.

25:58 On Bell

26:01 But if there isn't

26:03 I'm in Missouri stupid what happened?

26:08 He found some complication in my eyes.

26:13 That would require me to sign another waiver.

26:17 The interesting thing to me was that when I got out and had my eyes checked that complication didn't exist. And where where were you where were you in that? I was at Fort Benning Georgia. And so I end up getting a branch transfer and I end up going to be

26:39 Basically is a desk for sure and bad things happen, but I have waited.

26:48 Getting men pill review in in the schooling to be a platoon leader. You learned that that's what you were going to be doing.

26:59 You know that that was part of your job.

27:06 You know, we were not Confucius and I'm not quoting confusion confidently, but he talked about.

27:17 Life before you send the person to war you should be like 6 years of education philosophy was in other words. He was recognizing the magnitude of the very thing we're talking about.

27:33 And saying you owe it to these men to prepare them intellectually, and spiritually. Well, we weren't we were McNamara's band. We were under trained and experienced in experience.

27:49 It was a travesty.

27:51 It was a trap and especially with the officers guys were ready to do with it. I mean, I knew then I went through training with these guys, not God, you know, they were just going into a meat grinder and will not a lot of attention being paid to

28:14 People don't realize

28:18 Call Beth.

28:21 How long were you there for you? And then when you came back, where did you go?

28:30 I came back spend a couple of weeks driving too fast and drinking too hard. And then I had my brother drive me off into a spot that I picked out years before in the middle of the night that was part of the fantasy had to be in the middle of the night had to be in the middle of nowhere at the worst possible spot to catch a ride in the universe.

29:01 And my parents are

29:04 I just announced it.

29:07 I came home from 24-hour drunk.

29:10 And then said I'm gone.

29:25 What where'd you go? What happened?

29:29 I hitchhiked across the country.

29:31 DC

29:34 See, I been hitchhiking and so where a woman I've been in love with before.

30:07 The number to say goodbye by not. Hello.

30:16 I was not explaining myself. I was not what could I say? Well, I have this one.

30:31 Unfortunately, she had attempted suicide.

30:44 Sushi one of my moments with her showing me her wrist and me being totally

30:59 I'm on the road in the swimming pool.

31:07 Attica prison

31:11 Watts

31:17 Goodbye to my brother and sister.

31:27 That's what I was doing. I was going to say goodbye.

31:32 The jump-off Point, New York

31:36 And I was like

31:39 The compulsion was lost.

31:45 I didn't want to know where I was going.

31:48 I don't want to have a distribution.

31:51 I didn't want control.

31:55 And I couldn't explain that to you in a hundred years.

32:00 I just wanted to see what would happen.

32:05 Were you in some way?

32:08 Addicted or attached to the

32:12 Real love not knowing what's going to happen next.

32:16 Thrill at the wrong word

32:21 Mystery mystery

32:25 Cuz you can't replace that doesn't sound like there's a lot of Mystery.

32:34 You know where the place I came from his people desperately trying to know what was going to

32:41 But at the same time knowing they couldn't mean being at the mercy of the weather.

32:49 You know, it wasn't whether or not you were going to get nailed by that whether you were going to get high. Oh, it was some people handled it well and some people but also the spirit of the spiritual spirituality of the landscape.

33:15 Was communicating itself to me and it was a mystery, you know, I didn't have a Glock.

33:28 And talk to her and talk to the store that you can feel me. I know you can tell me.

33:35 I love Walking In This Storm and kind of Define.

33:41 When you were out into the world New York City, did you feel the same attachments of landscaping weather and all that?

33:52 I think I felt just at home.

33:56 Just moving and you didn't do this for a couple months you did this for a while you

34:04 You know, it wasn't that simple, you know that I would find a job rule of thumb was I to take any job iPhone.

34:23 One person build up a steak and move on.

34:30 Consequently

34:33 The story of my life. I was constantly in over my head. I mean Vietnam in over my head, you know, I walk under this job, you know roughnecking in high steel working in a leadmine and stuff. I I was in over my head. I never knew what the hell I was doing in about the time. I would figure it out.

35:02 How would you know when it was time to go?

35:05 There always will come a time when I have to go.

35:09 In my heart

35:12 I was just flying by the seat of my pants were the people that you encountered mystified by this artist of the narrative. You know that dream ghosting.

35:30 I would just disappear. I didn't have explanations.

35:34 I can say to a woman and I loved a lot of women in a lot of women were trying to me. I didn't have exclamation.

35:44 I didn't know how to explain myself disappear. I thought it would be more of us. You know how to take care of a lot of predators in the reverse was actually true. I was constantly having people watch out for me.

36:08 It was amazing some of the stories people just

36:15 In the game of people reaching out. Did you ever find people reaching out to you to unload? What was in them seeing you as a someone was a part of their world so they can tell you Secrets or or emotionally unload in a way that they couldn't with people who are part of their Community making that happen to life found that in hitchhiking.

36:49 I think people saw in me things. I didn't know were there and maybe weren't

36:56 I think they saw things in me. Sometimes they were meant to size me, but I had you know, redneck Cowboys.

37:08 You know pull me out of trouble, you know stuff. You know, I have I walked on two.

37:19 Disney World

37:21 When the first building under construction

37:29 And I was on my motorcycle and I had had kind of a rough time and and I didn't have food to eat living in a case of beans under the under the bed and I will get up in the morning have a good down to the smoke a favor. I knew the waitress and I had to order a cup of coffee or a ketchup and sugar and everything into this. It was my morning suit and this waitress look the other way when I did this and then at lunch time cuz I didn't get paid for 3 weeks.

38:04 I would skip lunch and then I would come home and have a canopy and Charlie that my for me.

38:13 Charlie was a redneck guy. No action.

38:30 I know she's not eating with the boys and I gave him some story about.

38:38 Is $5 go down to the corner store and get yourself something to eat for god sakes and after that somebody in the crew always had an extra sound security and then when I got ready to leave, so I told him ahead of time when I was leaving the same thing. It takes me aside.

39:17 How long does it take to talk to your dad?

39:21 I said it's been awhile.

39:24 One way to go to long since you never know.

39:34 1969

39:44 And those sorts of things.

39:48 I came out of that 10 years incapable of cynicism and years.

39:56 I could not I could not be cynical because about time in a tree.

40:13 You know what? I think I think that part of it is.

40:20 As old as humanity and attitude towards the building towards spiritual journey.

40:36 Sometimes I think that I was on more of a spiritual journey than have you regardless I think people suck and they would reach out.

40:49 Sing it Elmo says a duty to help somebody.

40:56 And I was being a good kid. I was not.

41:06 We had a real wrap up. Maybe maybe I'm a part of that Journey here getting getting these words down.

41:14 I want to thank you that way.

41:16 Thanks a lot for letting us we are part of one another.

41:25 I keep my thank you so much.

41:32 Forget

41:37 My Sands