Joy Dickinson and Rick Kilby

00:07 My name is Rick Kilby. I'm 55 years old. Today's date is January 25th, 2024 on the 5th floor the Orange County Regional History Center in Orlando, Florida.

00:19 Name of my interview partner is Joy Wallace Dickinson and my relationship to Joy as we've been friends and we work together. We've been friends for.

00:30 I don't know long time. I first met Joy when she came to interview me about a calendar that I had done for self-promotion many years ago.

00:42 My name is Joy Wallace Dickinson. I am almost 75 years old which means I'm almost twenty years older than Rick today's date is January 25th, 2020 in Orlando, Florida at the Orange County Regional History Center. And the name of my interview partner is Rick Kilby and is he just said I was thinking about it. I think it's nearly 20 years cuz I started writing them flashback 20 years ago and I suspect it was pretty early on in that so it's nearly 20 years that we've known each other and work together and I really love by Beverly told him this but I consider Rick probably my most important work partner ever. Wow.

01:34 Wow, well, I know you've been a great mentor to me and I've learned a lot from you mostly about commas. But also my favorite thing I think is to not

01:50 When you're writing about history, you can't just say something is true. You really need to verify that you have to be somewhat skeptical. You have to really look for sources and you just can't

02:01 You just can't say that's the ones I was dating the crowd because he has a mustache you have to do the legwork and do the homework and make sure it's true and that's really really worked on my behalf. I believe boy that brings up so many things for me and I think I have such a clear memory of the first time I met you I think we'll why don't I remember it before I interviewed you I remember either you calling me up and you said or maybe when I met you for coffee or something to talk about history you said well, I've got a project and I'm going to need a rider and I have thought cuz Rick was a graphic designer. Mostly then and continues to be a really excellent one including for the History Center. But since then he has become his own Super Rider. He's he's written a couple of books and has become a ride or so, both of us Cher.

03:01 I love of writing and writing about history or at least we struggle and writing about history and and what it takes and also a love of visual images and how to tell history through Visual images, which is of course one of the things that a museum is engaged in two and as we sit in this Museum

03:27 Well, how did you get started on the road to history? Do you think was it go back to your childhood? I think it came from my grandmother's attic Milan Michigan. We used to go up there cuz you know in Florida you don't have attics and basements in those kind of things and that's the gist was stuck all the old stuff up there. So there wasn't a whole lot to do when we ever went to my grandmother's house. And so I wake up in the attic and rubber see the treasures and she kept everything.

03:55 He Alda femora. I still have some of the brochures and stuff. She had from trips to Florida, you know, Weeki Wachee and silver springs and things like that. And actually I've used images that were her in her attic in my books. And I think that's what kind of gave me an aptitude to it. If I'd really the big thing was working at Church Street. That's where my whole way of looking at the world change being surrounded by all Olympic torriana and trying to learn how to design in that theme. My office was in the Depot on the third floor and they had one section of it was a library of Victorian references my gosh. We should probably just talking about Church Street Station, which it one point was in Orlando and at one point was one of the major tourist drawers in Florida and maybe the 70s would you say it open in the seventies and eighties up until the time when Disney opens? What was it called?

04:51 Downtown Disney Downtown Disney than it morphed into pleasure is Pleasure Island that really really took a bite out of their business at Orchard station, but for a long time the restaurant there was one of the top 10 grossing restaurants in the country. Will you were talking about the the historical aspect of it? Say more about that cuz it's great to record. That was a guy he was a big collector. He was a former Navy air pilot. He started to simmer property in Pensacola called Seville quarter, but he would do it all these auctions and he'd buy stuff. I can buy pues from an old church or an old train station torn down and eat take the benches and then you repurpose them and put them together and make them look like they've been there forever and created an attraction than they were different shower rooms that were theme is Rosie O'Grady's Wizards Dixieland Jazz themed Cheyenne Saloon was The Incredibles base.

05:47 Then look Western but was Modern but he rebuilt the style so perfectly you'd think it was from the old west. And then he had the Orchid Garden which is like a Crystal Palace you would see in England or something and he was Bob snow Rob snow and he was kind of a Visionary but being in that environment that atmosphere and learning how to design appropriately for those turn of the century Victorian kind of heat that eat those that ethic that I was trying to create really helped how to change the what I was interested in and you know, really what got my juices flowing is that when you you think that's how you came to the History Center for your work at Church Street. Yes, definitely definitely. So when I started my own business that's that one one of my former bosses was on the board here and he recommended me into when I had a chance to do some work to audition to get their business. Remember my dad was

06:47 In town for some reason I said this this is my dream job. This is my dream client if I can get this this is this is all I've ever dreamed about in this was perfect for exactly what I want to do and that was 2001.

07:02 Wow, well I'm learning all kinds of things like, you know, as long as I've known you I I really didn't know that you had that you had visual Treasures that were in your your Grant was a great grandmother grandmother grandmother kept everything so years after she died we find books and then we'd open them up and there'd be all these newspaper articles pressed between the pages and money money. So she kept everything she kept everything and it's great cuz I have some of her books and you know like Moby Dick with illustrations by Rockwell Kent wonderful Treasures like that and it's so she was very literate too. And that's kind of a theme that is in her side of the family.

07:48 I was thinking trying to think about childhood memories of associations from history and my family was from Pennsylvania. And we moved to remove the Orlando when I was four and I think when I was a child, I had a strong sense and I feel guilty about this in retrospect that I think it was because of the the prominence of the television shows of the day that were set in an America that didn't look like Florida. I mean this was in that this was in the fifties probably so that was a popular show for example called Father Knows Best and everybody lived in a brick house and lived on a street called like Elm Street or something and you know, and I read Nancy Drew books and they were all set someplace that you know was where they had

08:48 Trees that lost their leaves in the fall and I think I really felt that as much as my family, especially my grandfather loved Florida and love being here that I felt like the real America wasn't Florida when I was a little child, so

09:05 I know we went to places that had to do with history, but I'm thinking it might not have even been until I was in college and I studied history that I started reflecting on it and then I lived other places and I think it wasn't until really I came back to to Florida as a an adult of some years that I began to appreciate its history. Didn't you live in Williamsburg and where Fry historical price at my first job at Florida State University in Tallahassee, and I studied English and history there. But you know, I can remember I had some teachers that had a big effect on me and

09:55 The history Department I think was really good. In fact, I would stack the history my history education up against anybody said really I think it was great for a State University. I want to go off and do all different stores what I wanted because when I first so one of my professors knew about this job at The Institute of early American history in Williamsburg, Virginia, which is a sponsored partly by the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation that runs the restoration and in the whole operation of Colonial Williamsburg and the College of William and Mary and

10:36 It's a a sort of scholarly Institute that publishes books and the William & Mary quarterly and has a sort of exalted place in studying colonial American history and I was taught in undergraduate school to really upsets her know about who had a doctorate degree and you had a master's degree. And you know, when you address your professors you were really clear to say doctor doctor so and so do the people that had a doctorate. So the first day on the job, I addressed my boss as doctor and he said doctor doctor, I don't think anybody sick around here. I don't know how they did things that Yazoo state or wherever you went to school. But you know, you don't have to worry about Helen people doctors here. So I really had a feeling that I mean in some ways people were lovely and it was a lovely place to work and I learned a tremendous amount but

11:35 I did feel somewhat that haven't gone to a publicly supported State institution in a not grown up State like Florida that my education was I find that I learned a lot and I guess I got interested in history there and then it in Williamsburg. I think that's where I learned. It was nice of you to talk about accuracy in in in that sort of thing the importance of that in history, but one of my jobs as a lowly minion and an editor was too when we would edit a book manuscript, we checked all the footnotes and all the sources and that's sort of a little boy that was quite an amazing thing.

12:20 So we went nature that not only the form of the footnotes was right, but we supported the authors and in just making sure their documentation was in good shape, but I did I think I learned I learned a lot by example from the people who were there. Some of them were pretty important American historians and the people on the board where Alfred Knopf was on the board Lyman Butterfield who edited the

12:51 Which papers did he edit? I think Benjamin Franklin maybe not but he added one of the great series of papers.

13:00 I'd have to remember Benny way there were some eminent people but humble and really really good examples. I think of how to be in a teacher and a scholar in the good sense. It's funny cuz my when I think about Colonial Williamsburg, I'd bring some different memories cuz we went to we did a trip and with my family a family vacation. We stop there. I think it was around the time of the bicentennial and I was really into the bicentennial I forgot so now I'm back in 1986. I've been 12 years old. I was way into the bison bison tell carpet Bicentennial bedspread Bicentennial sheets. I had pictures of Martin wash Martha and George Washington on my

13:47 In my bedroom, everything was red white and blue in my bedroom. I painted blue and white stripes. I didn't have red for some reason. But anyways, I was so into it. So we went to a colonial muster and Williamsburg and I remember thinking the buildings and all that was boring. But the coolest thing was to get to stand next to the people in their uniforms and I have a picture of my brother and I standing next to these guys and it was is one of my favorite pictures because I remember what a thrill it was to see someone in it and uniform from that era and I read all the books about it.

14:17 But I also remember that that trip we went to the Smithsonian and that's some of my first Museum memories because it was the first time I ever went to an art museum and saw a real painting that I'd seen him in a box and art history book or something and it's like that's you know, Washington Crossing the Delaware or whatever it was. That's the real painting and it was such a thrill to need to see that in real life and I still get a rash every time I go to a museum and I see that you know, that's you know de kooning that's Jasper John whatever, you know, that's the real thing. You see in the book you say reproductions. That's the real thing and you get up close look at the brushstrokes and see details. You wouldn't get to see in real life. This is so much fun because again learning things I never knew and you know, it's it's funny about age and difference in it because here you are at 12 and you're in love with the bicentennial and had that same time that you were there. I was living there and I was you know,

15:17 Worldly thirty-something who I don't know why I can remember and remember certain things about the bicentennial and how it affected me in and that sort of thing and maybe going to some things in Washington. It would we would drive the 3 hours to Washington my friends and I get some real culture but it's so it's so wonderful to me that we were there at the same time and I had at the Museum Association. I think one of my strongest one that would have been a few years earlier before I went to Williamsburg, but very similar growing up here. I think we went once my mother wanted me to go when I was a child. She made sure we went to the Ringling art museum in Sarasota because it's sort of

16:10 The most major I suspect in terms of his collection Art Museum in the state to wanted me to see the the Rubens and other paintings that were there but beyond that I had never really been to a world-class Art Museum and I went with the same Professor who helped me get my first job David amerman who has died last year took a group of students and we went to the march on the Pentagon one of the big first any War Vietnam marches and we drove and and I remember that it was an amazing experience, but I suspect in retrospect and I could say more about that but

16:53 What really stands out for me from that trip was the first time I had ever encountered a major Art Museum and I think it was the National Gallery of Art and I went in I was going up a stairwell and there was a really big Picasso. I think it was one from the blue. That was painting in the stairwell and I just felt like I've been hit in the chest, you know, just the impact of and I think I learned in something I've learned over and over again to particular with a big painting. It's just

17:29 No matter how good the reproduction is you can't really reproduce in on paper the feeling of seeing the painting for real even with smaller paintings by particularly the big ones, you know, and I remember I never really got

17:49 Okay, the famous art. I'm having a senior moment, but you can help me the famous artist that did the splatter painting Jackson Pollock Jackson Pollock. Okay, I I sort of it always known about Jackson Pollock that I never really seen one of them until in the MoMA in New York. I think it was the first time I did and I felt like it is and it's it was walls. I mean it was long wall-sized mirror again, I just felt like it was visceral feeling about I really felt like the energy that he had poured.

18:22 Into that pain I could feel so both of us have you know a real passion for art and for art museums and I'm thinking about this Museum and

18:35 One of the things we've talked about the long time is how museums change and how

18:41 In a history museum to you try to combine visual elements with other things and how you you know, how you engage people. I mean, do you have a favorite memory about about this Museum or experience here or or I think about some of the exhibits that I really liked the you know, the Muppets was first class. They had a toy exhibit. I really like there's a science fiction one. There was a the rock and roll exhibit. I'd like a lot. I mean, I think they've had a number of really outstanding as if it's the one they just had the accident was Dorian was very good. The one thing I think that's a bald as I do think they have real Museum professionals here now and I think they had Talent on staff before but I don't know that they were, you know firmly rooted in what it takes to put on exhibit and now they really do and I would I think that the ones they created house.

19:37 Are as good as those traveling as if it's that good and you know with the their own take on the local scene, but I also think if they ever wanted to travel those they could because they're good enough to take outside this Museum that they could stand on their own because the level of skill is he is here and so that's one thing it's evolved.

19:59 I've been in terms of the permit exam. It's I'm always drawn to the tourism area and I like the reproduction of The Wigwam motel that's got that kids thing and that's the part of Florida history that I keep finding myself drawn back to his tourism history. And I I just love the little all the souvenirs in the different stories. They tell their in the different items and I see different things every time I go in there but for impact, I think the place that has the most impact is the big airplane wing, you know in the military area in the area about Aviation. I love that in terms of just, you know, you most museums have that big item. That's just

20:42 You know how to scale the dinosaur the dinosaur when you gonna to let you know, I'm using him up north. That's that's kind of their Dinosaurs the big airplane. Yeah, that's what got me thinking about a lot of things.

20:57 We touched on you touched on The Wigwam Village and that's one thing that you and I share to Is This Love of of circular fantasy Chi-Chi elements of of of Florida tourism, but then I guess sir with our theme park pass and then I I think it's funny that I I said when I was a kid, I always thought Florida assertive wasn't as serious place or I don't know. I didn't think it was a real America because it didn't have leaves that are trees that change their leaves and that sort of thing, but when I came back and sort of appreciated it from a greater perspective, I think the thing I love it.

21:40 Are that how even from the beginning when people came to Florida they could sort of be a different whoever they were they could they could be less serious. They could you know, maybe they could go swimming where they couldn't at home. They could enjoy the beach they could cut loose a little they could they could go to places that they might even have known were pulling your leg, but had a fantasy element and can have fun, you know, and I love that part about Florida and one of the things that you mentioned that was here.

22:18 What's this Wigwam Village Motel that we still there still three of them? It was it was a group of hotels that were Loosely linked but they looked like a $10 bill to look like large concrete teepees. And I mean large, you know that I can't remember the dimensions but maybe 40 feet for the biggest one or I don't know they had a big one in the middle. That was for the gift shop in office was that was a really big and in the little individual units were smaller. I stayed in the one in Holbrook, which was it was very cool. I remember going into the bathroom and it's kind of disconcerting because the walls are on an angle and so the mirror is really close to your face cuz it's coming in on an angle. But you know as you drive closer, it's like have you slept in a wigwam native Billboards everywhere? I have you sleep I slept in a wigwam and you get the closer you get the more frequent they get and it's like you have to do it when you go there, you know, I mean, I would do the same thing. I guess if I'd had

23:18 Kids, but I remember desperately wanting to stay there, you know, but but I mean we lived here so my parents, you know wouldn't ever have spent money to stay in a motel where it was in the same town. Now, I would do that in a minute and I actually dream about driving a thousand miles in Cave City, but you know still here because I really like that but looping back for a minute. I I do think that the professional Museum staff we have here is really has done a tremendous job on the exhibits and of course.

24:00 Minnesota bus

24:02 A sad connection but I think one that's important. Noting is that the the award that the museum got that sort of makes these this interview possible and storycorps connection had to do with I think partly are rolling in helping document the aftermath of the pulse shooting Pulse Nightclub shooting and I think the vision of the staff to see that it was up to up to them and to preserve things for the history of tomorrow. You'll tell the story of the past, but to to collect information oral histories and artifacts that would enable people to look back and try to understand

24:52 That incident they were ready. They were really ready for that moment. Yeah, you know that this was

25:01 Ukiah had the staff been different they might not a roast that occasion and I think they did and I think their work is probably impacted other museums in the way that they see the immediate past and because of their ability to that I think they've taken this institution dump to the next level which I think it you know, my interest is further history, but I think in doing that and raising the level of this institution, it helps raise awareness of all with history, you know that did this makes it easier to tell the stories at the trying to tell if you have that connection with people and then that's what the post thing. Did it allow them to connect to people in a different way and a whole different segments of the audience and it's really they did an outstanding job with that, right?

25:51 And I think you know how important it is. I'm going to think a lot about what is going to make.

25:58 What what helps inspire people to believe museums are important when their children and you know thinking back again. I'm trying to have been trying to think back about how I got the message that it was important. And you know, there was in the old red Courthouse that used to be torn down in the 50s that used to be I think I remember my mother taking me there to that history museum when I was little and it was way up at I have the Vegas memories of it in one of the things I wish I could bring in more clearly was, you know, one of the one of the Sun or sort of funny individual artifacts that we have in our collection here is this example of Taxidermy called Billy this one and

26:52 We were talking earlier trying to explain to visitors. Why swans were important in Orlando's history and they've always been a trademark and how there was one. That was so famous and beloved it in the 30s. He was he was stuffed and put in a glass case.

27:09 After he passed away and we still have him and

27:13 I have a vague memory that maybe he was maybe I saw him, you know how when I was a kid and went to that museum that I don't know if it's because I I would like to believe that or if I really did if I did it didn't do any harm, you know me that didn't I wasn't horrified I know but I did get the idea that museums were important and how

27:38 So many kids come in here so many school children come to visit and is it just

27:45 Is it just a fact that they visit is that going to be enough? I mean I think in some ways it's a lot if you remembered you went to a museum you sort of are imprinted with the idea that that's one of the things we do, but you want them to have a good experience to believe history is important. So I grew up in Gainesville and they had what is it the Florida museum of natural history in a used to be in the Siegel building which was a boom time skyscrapers the only skyscraper in Gainesville on it was a hotel very short time, but they did for a brief time and had the museum there and I have a very vague memories of that but then they moved into on campus and they had his buildings that looks like Mayan pyramids very low kind of a mid-century reinterpretation of a mine. And they were very cool. And you know, I wasn't in the architectures kid, but I knew these are cool cuz can you eat it almost crawl up the sides?

28:45 So we used to just play on the architecture and all that stuff. But I remember you would walk in and they had a reproduction of that. I'll told him that they found on hontoon island right in the entryway and then they had a reproduction of a cave that you could go into and it was a lot of fun. But my favorite memory is my mom would always make us do something every summer. So I would get enrolled in classes like our summer camp and they would be themed but they were very immersive. So I took one on ichthyology and we would go around to all the area lakes with gnats and catch fish and bring them back into and put them in our aquariums in I can't

29:30 The colors that we found at the fish, like they look like tropical fish in finding a new pet store would find those in the lakes and creeks and I remember we went into Cross Creek with gnats and people got leeches on them. And I remember pulling the leeches off by these great wonderful Vivid memories of that. I took a class on Native American studies and they probably didn't call it that but at the end we had a picnic where we cook venison over a fire and had succotash

30:00 And I remember one more class and it was geology and we went to

30:07 Where we would look for rocks and we split rocks out for not remember there's a scorpion and stuff like that. But so I kind of grew up at that Museum and went whenever we had visitors from out of town and they had drawers you would open that would be you know, I have all the Taxidermy like the dead birds and things like that, which I love that kind of stuff now, so it's kind of my hometown Museum in a special place. And so one of my best best best best adult museums was when I first book came out getting to speak at that Museum and having my parents in the audience is only time my dad ever saw me talk about my back and it's

30:45 Sperry special that's very meaningful. You don't just hear you talk to it. Sounds like what you really got what you still have. You know, I mean intense really flowered Is This Love for Florida's environment in in when you talked about the fish going out and getting the fission and even though even though somewhat scary parts like a week just that you were immersed in in natural Florida at sort of a young age and and exploring and then help and that's connected to the history of the state to Natural History in the East part of the history of minutes. You know, I kind of made me into a museum. I mean that's my favorite thing is to take a day. I mean every day when my wife when I go on vacation we have several days that that's all we do is go to a museum and spend the morning there go to the cafe and see the rest of the stuff. We didn't see in the afternoon and we do that. That's why

31:45 My favorite thing to do because it expands your eyes and would that do new Museum in Ringling that they made out of the old high school. I wish I could remember the artist name the show just like wow, you could do that with our you know, that's really pushing the boundaries and that means you can do so much. You know, it's not just paint on canvas what that means. It means I really want to go to that museum on that you're talking about sending Museum in Sarasota. I haven't gone that too and that's another thing we share I it strikes me, you know one great gift if you can get it when you're a kid in the helps with is if you're just inspired to be curious about things and that extends through, you know, many different many different things and disciplines on to the Natural History and

32:38 And all kinds of things that is really a good memory. So what is your favorite museum? What is my favorite music see him if you have one if I have one that is a big question it probably I don't know. I went to Paris for the first time in the spring. I'd I think for a person of my age and intellectual pretensions. I'm not I'm not very widely traveled and that was a Big Thrill to go to Paris and see actually we did not spend as much time in the Louvre as we did in some of the other museums including the Picasso Museum and I really was

33:29 I think driving my friend's Crazy by they had the

33:34 There's a sculpture Picasso made out of a bicycle seat and the cows had and they had the real thing there again. It's just that I kept explaining how that was in my art history book.

33:51 It's worth a try the feeling, you know, and they did such a great. I don't know if it's my favorite museum like I suppose it would be Museum of Modern Art in New York because if I lived in New York, I just would go in there to look at the Monet water lilies or the big Jackson Pollock or and that's a museum that I was in enough to be familiar with it. The Metropolitan Museum of Art is almost there from use them has too much of it. It's it's wonderful that has too much stuff. But I I need to be close enough to it where I can go again and again and I would do that in San Francisco. They were done. And then the Museum of Art there there was a room that they had these big paintings by Clifford still and I just would go and try to visit and just check in on the paintings. So but it's it it's hard to say just one but I

34:51 I guess the Museum of Modern Art, but mostly because I'm familiar enough with that. I can draw back to the feeling of seeing that the water lilies and and Guernica is there at least one of the garden acres? Is there by Picasso so but it is it is definitely something that I'm glad is part of I would be so sad if we had no museums and I sad that we don't fund them as much as as I would like us to as as a society and I hope that we do more.

35:27 I've been researching some of the odd little Museum attractions that they used to have in St. Augustine in the 19th century. So that was kind of a thing like, you know, A Roadside Attraction was just make your own museum. It was fall Taxidermy, you get stuffed alligators and have shells and rocks and things like that. And so there were a number of them everywhere. They said they were kind of Museum of Flight curio shop. And so everybody could have one and you know, so this doctor better guy who is a dentist a self-trained Dennis had some stuff died on this in his dentist office in he got more attention for the stuff. Adam has been is Dentistry. So he basically open his own museum and of course, you know, they had a zoo to where they were living items and the rattlesnakes would always get out and get in people's yards in like I've seen that story couple different places where people had their little homemade zoos in their Middletown and rattlesnakes we get out and get in people's yards and it was all the problem.

36:25 But I it's just so fun to people would start there on a long as you let me know you kind of have that today and some of these Outsider artists in the fall car tradition. I remember there's one in New Mexico called tinkertown and you created this whole little world and the slogan is this is what I did while you were watching TV, please Empire is sort of an extension of that started with you know, this one man collecting all these curiosity and it's it's a very weird mix of

37:02 Yo Curiosities from around the world and then there's paintings of like Elvis made with jelly beans as well as when all these just strange things. They have a weird Fascination. I never made that connection till now that I kind of think that's what replaces Krueger out of that which kind of links back to this whole kind of romantic era were people started discovering nature again and getting outside and finding Beauty in the sublime in nature and then but it was okay to kind of kill nature and stuff it and put it in Taxidermy. And so there's this whole kind of weird thing and that all links to replace which new guys on today to remember

37:45 I think I can remember when I was a kid. I remember being aware of them that you know, he did these sort of cartoon panels in the paper. I mean there would be things that would tell you about Ripley's Curiosities that would be in the Sunday paper. And and so it it would remind you to that the world was bigger than just your little town and I was I think one thing I'd like to acknowledge to as an influence on me. I was thinking as a child there were these wonderful books by men named Richard Halliburton who remains a great interest of mine and they were written mostly in the thirties and he was this sort of swashbuckling adventurer who lived who wrote newspaper column said these books for young people. One of them was I think

38:37 The Royal Road to romance but you know sort of the wonders of antiquity and I remember reading them and they just had great effect on me about learning about the pyramids and he would travel to see the Taj Mahal and and that there was a bigger world out there. You know that that you could explore or should you be daring enough? That's true cuz you got a lot of green library is equally had the same kind of impact on me because my dad's office was in city hall right next to the library. And so we go to the library and it see my dad and quite often. So in the summer we go once a week and

39:29 I look forward to that and I would I would check out the maximum number of books first. I was looking at the pictures of a lot of not read but I always would and then you know, that's how it that's kind of expanded your world and universe and that maybe that's where all that intellectual curiosity comes from. That's definitely something I I was trained in as a I mean just that was just what we did. We went to the library and and got a lot of books and and my mother had before in the little town she grew up in Pennsylvania and it does, you know, I lived away from Orlando a lot of my adult life, but it really makes me happy that a building. That's just a block from here is the

40:13 Do you know the library that I went to as a child is the precursor of that one is on the very same spot and then I went to the children's Department in and just was raised with the idea. That's what you did. You know you you read books and

40:33 And I read plenty that were just as you know that we're not necessarily that were entertaining. I've saw the movie Little Women recently and I really remembered how much that book affected me, you know, and you know the portrayal of the sisters and everything. I think that just

40:53 Had a great effect in shows the power of a story, you know, that that can have over Generations power of a story that seems like a good place to wrap it up.