Joyce Brake and Adam Brake

00:00 This is Joyce brake. I am 44 years old. Today is Friday, May 21st, 2021. I'm in White, Salmon, Washington.

00:10 My partner's name is Adam brake and he is my husband with my wife and White, Salmon, Washington.

00:25 Excellent, so

00:29 I really wanted to start. This is all part of the military voices initiative, and so I just kind of wanted to start by you sharing an overview of your experience. In Darby. You played so many different roles. And so maybe just give us a quick overview of, you know, how you got started and how you evolve over the years. So I enlisted right out of high school and started in the 82nd Airborne and then went to the 2nd ranger battalion in Fort Lewis, Washington the night. I got out to go to school but missed soldiering. So went back in.

01:17 Through the reserves to the special forces. And after a few years of Reserve by wanted to do more so I enlisted after being selected for a specialized organization and then stayed in for about six more years and then got out the continued in the reserve and ultimately ended up in the National Guard for my last few years. When I retire,

01:48 And what role did you play in your, in your final role as a Jag officer? So, I evolve from from infantry and Special Forces to the jackets Cora while I was in the reserves. I was in there. I went to law school and after five years of soldiering. I'm going to do something with this lottery. I probably shouldn't do it before too long. So I, I apply to and went into the Jag Corps while I was still in active duty in the army.

02:26 They started out in the 82nd Airborne, tell me about that unit. What are they known for things? What they like to call themselves? The the All-American division. They would Fort Bragg, North Carolina and they are classic light infantry. The time I was there it was still cold war-era in Ann, Arbor are basic job that we trained for was the eventuality of a Soviet invasion across Western Europe in our job would be in that event to get on an airplane, fly behind the Russian front line and then disrupt or to fly into Europe and jump in front of where they were quickly. Create a defensive position and try to slow down there. There is ants. So the training for that boils down to from granular mechanical.

03:26 And lots of nights jumping into the woods of digging holes and sitting waiting for Russians to arrive.

03:34 Can helicopters are airplane with this. The unit. That was famous during World War II first. Flying over. They conducted operation Market Garden, which was the part of where the Airborne Invasion into an into your backpack. I last few months and give you second. I was selected to go as a small group to go to the 82nd Airborne Association.

04:07 And that was a lot of those guys that actually did that work then and jumped into Europe getting together for like an annual reunions, which was a super fun party. Like they might my regiment was the first of the 504 infantry and that was a unit that had jumped into go and capture a specific Bridge did the Nazis were trying to use in adults and there's a movie called bridge too far. I'm starting, Robert Redford. And when I met the guys inside at the banquet table that night, like they were all teasing each other about,

04:43 In all the different things that they have done their job and they be there for anyone that like, yeah, he's Robert Redford played in the movie very, very Smokey Bear. Look like and then had a great sense of humor and Prospectors on.

05:06 About how many jumps do you think you had throughout your career after a while? Cuz I like we jump out and there's a goat connected to the plane to push it open for you. But after in the Special Forces, I did freefall where you step out on your own and so remind me to turn 2830.

05:36 Free phones. Glad that's one of the things that I've never understood about your military. Career is how time and time again, you

05:49 Summoned up the courage to just jump out of a helicopter or their, what was your, what was your Technique? I never really looked at it. The first time I did, it was all these exposed wires and bras and things, never stinks leaking down onto my lap. And at dawley Street Sounds. And all I could think of was like, I want to get out of this. I got a parachute on Preston and I couldn't get out of the airplane fast enough and then when I started playing the first time they lowered the ramp and your 14,000 ft looking down at the ground and thinking like, wow. Yeah. I'm just going to jump out of here and you know, trust the training in the equipment and everything works the way there.

06:49 And so yeah, just okay. That's what we going to do.

06:58 Nerd friends that position never had the urge to jump like that.

07:03 So, tell me about your soldier, identity. I've known you for about 12 years and you have shared with me several times. That you always felt like you were born a soldier. So, tell me what that feels like.

07:24 Put words to, so am I.

07:32 Stumble a little bit on that, but I don't know. I mean, I think from the time I was a kid. I always just identified with that. I think that he knows, you know, when I was a really small child and I think I started drawing military pictures of guys on castle, walls, fighting with swords or airplanes. Flying ships in their back when I was a really small kid at one point. I think it was probably preschool level, but I remember my art teacher took a picture that I dropped my mom, cuz she was really worried about the graphic level of of of battle to pick did with swords and arms cut off and I was looking for the sweet things. So, you know, from a very young age. That was always something that I just had a natural.

08:25 Proclivity for will certainly Draw 2.

08:30 So I don't know yet. I was felt like when I was in uniform, I was forbidden in my own skin. If that makes sense.

08:40 What was your most challenging assignment?

08:46 Oh, I don't know. They're all they're all challenging in their own ways. Our own kind of things. You don't like, when what I really wanted out of the military was to be a challenge to the limit of my ability. Whatever that happened to be. And, you know, like in the Special Forces assessment selection course, there's a sticker. That is, of course, it's basically designed to just give it to test you physically, mentally, and otherwise, and

09:11 They they come up with all sorts of creative ideas to just push you physically. And one of them is, was simply carrying a stretcher that has like a 300-pound and bagged up on it. And you would contraction Cindy, Rosen, Carolina woods, and there was like, one specific time that I'd very much remember, like he's got to be on the way down your back holding this thing that you're on your shoulders and we came to the spot. That was like slightly uphill and I remember like stepping forward.

09:58 And not really looking at literally took all the effort I could summon to.

10:04 To get my foot down drive to step down but I didn't physically know if I was strong enough to take another step.

10:12 But once I did and once I kind of got through that I was like, this is what I came for.

10:20 You got over the hump.

10:35 So you mentioned the graphic drawing that your Elementary School teacher sent home.

10:44 What were your parents reactions to having that Soldier ethos?

10:51 That's a good question. I mean, I necessarily obsessed over and my dad served in the Navy. During the Korean War are currently on my father's side. There was a history of military service and my my mom's grandfather had served in the Cavalry in just after World War II, they were there. But yeah, after I graduated from high school, I was home for just a couple of weeks in the phone rang and it said, hi. This is so ugly. She's the one that called the recruiters I get my son out of the house.

11:48 So I got to leave at some level, she was supportive.

11:53 Sounds like it.

11:59 You've had a lot of kind of quirky mission.

12:08 What would you say was, was your quirkiest mission in the military?

12:20 Yeah, I don't know. I mean I mean cuz you know what I spent. I spent a few years doing things that I'm not serve with Liberty to talk about in some of the work. He's things were probably in that context.

12:33 But there's all sorts of different flavors right in the, in the Special Forces assessment of the Special Forces, qualification course, the last thing you have to do your set of culminating graduation exercise is premised on this idea that you're you, you go into this country where there's gorillas or rebels in the woods and they're fighting the government that is adverse to the US interests. And so your job is to go in there. Meet the grill out of the sand in endear yourself to them. Get invited onto the gbase, as we say. And then ultimately find ways to bring their goals and objectives into in Confluence with the United States, national security, objectives, and and gold. And so in the combination training exercise that they set up these little camps out in the woods and you know, you walk through the woods all night and then trying to get to the Hampton Inn, you have to talk your way on and and and

13:33 In and start your mission and usually as part of that, there's some sort of harassing face or there's some sort of kind of teasing that they do to you and usually when I did it and it involved lately, they meet up some like nasty go to the auction on crackers and we had to eat it because that was like their native delicacy and they were being nice to put. In fact, it was like just you know that I did we went down to Vanuatu and we were too small to you going down there to try and their forces. And the first thing that they did was this with little welcome ceremony for us all and the welcome ceremony involved, amongst other things are coming up in and toasting drinking their national drink with your call, and it's made from a very bitter roots that they dig out of the ground and grind up and then straight through water. But ultimately what it really is it sort of tastes like muddy water that has

14:33 This is sort of a very quick numbing effect. It was soon as you start drinking at your tongue, in your mouth and throwing everything starts to go completely numb and you feel like you're drinking dirty water and into the first little coconut bowls like us to come to your country and then down this little cup of dirty water stuff and all I could think of was like, wow, it really does happen like that. Sometimes, you know, it's a country, but I'm still like to try to adhere myself to these people and and ingesting exactly.

15:16 Tell me about a funny moment from your early days. You can or one of your one of your earliest training mission of cultural shock moment. Yeah, I don't want everything. I always think about basic training where you're still kind of learning. What is this new crazy world? I'm in and I was in his Old World War II Barracks. That used to be rolled bunk beds and Metal Wall lockers. And so I had to talk on and at night I took the keys to the truck and put them on top of the locker. Next to me, right? So

15:59 It's the middle of the night. I hear all of this like rattling and crashing and I wake up and there's some guy standing like she mostly just a shadow standing at my locker, pulling everything out and just like this tremendous clatter on the floor. And I jumped out of bed and it was a drill sergeant who it seem like he's there decided that that was not secure and then let them he was going to teach me was to open my locker and rip everything out on the floor and shows I jumped out and I started to say something like just read everything and you know, the lock of new place, carefully and folded and all that kind of stuff. And then after get everything out of the locker, the last thing in there was this little box of laundry soap. And he's like he's shouting at me as if he was done and then he looks back up and grab the laundry soap.

16:59 In the morning.

17:14 Lesson, learned and learned. Don't leave your keys with a drill sergeant.

17:20 So you joined the military in the 80s. Is that right? And post Vietnam era and yet they stated quite a bit since then, to be desert ground. So you you witness decades in the US Army and I'm sure a lot of changes with that. And you also have this, you know, kind of unique policy perspective having worked on military policy and Congress. And so what would you say is the most positive change that has happened within the military over the up since you joined an 80s?

18:08 Oh, I clearly the public perception.

18:13 Of the military. And I went when I, when I was first going in or just being a big trying to decide, we're deciding where I wanted to go, and I was talking to everybody, I could think of, in terms of trying to figure out where I wanted to go. But what I wanted to do and so many of the people that I talked to were shocked that I would be going into the military voluntarily because

18:39 You know, their mentality was, you know, that that's kind of where the riffraff of society go. That's kind of weird people who don't have

18:46 Options in their life, go and

18:52 Did the general perception, you know, what kind of was the military service was significantly, less than honorable. And so I can certainly do it, serve with plenty of people who, you know, wouldn't want to get on an airplane in in a uniform or wouldn't want to, you know, go out on the street in in military uniform has a reputation, was was still that's for the baby killer, high school teacher who, you know, used to talk about Vietnam. Veterans in a broad sweeping prejudiced overall, baby killers. Come away.

19:33 So the yeah, I can meet you on the evolution of the social perception is society's perception of the military. Now, couldn't be more different and it's so, you know, everything from the Unicorn routine. Thank you for your service, you know, to the different Veterans Preference. And you know, the number of different settings is it is a complete. One-eighty changed. That's been really great to see. How do you think that I am pretty sure 9/11 was the major Pivot Point to the right when to begin with. And you know, we are one of the few countries in history that's never been invaded by a foreign army and had to worry about the safety of our homes and Families.

20:33 Kids from soup. I think 9/11 911 was clearly in our modern history, right? The one time when people like, oh, maybe we're not Invincible made or not, you know, completely isolated from the world. Maybe we actually

20:59 How do you say? Maybe? We actually do need, you know, soldiers to protect us.

21:06 And so I think that's from my, my memory, least. That's when all of the thank you for your service start at, right. That's when

21:17 People really started to show a significant level of appreciation for your form, and how did 911 change your career in the military?

21:32 I don't necessarily know that did. I was in the military on active duty when 9/11 happened and, you know, the organization that was with the people that was working with were already pretty dialed in to Al-Qaeda and

21:50 That whole network and we had already been doing exercises and training Focus specifically on that problem set. And so I made her remember the morning that it happened in somebody's office checking on some routine personal thing and I was walking back to my team room, Pastor television set, were they the second plane that just hit?

22:21 And call it came out for like a media arts and accountability, get everybody together. And my sergeant major hit was down and put in your by river. Conducting some some water operation stuff. And so I could get it to get down there and get back here.

22:40 So,

22:42 So I drove down there and I got in the truck and he was out on the Water by flag them down. Here. He came in like I told him showing two points just hit.

23:05 Where to find a jet hit. The inner planes ubl cancel, while it and it was funny to me. Because so many other people that you like, on the news that day and and even in some subtle days, were like, who could this be? What could this be? You know, my sergeant major league. Absolutely no end. And I knew right away exactly what it happened and what, who's behind it?

23:43 Wii U.

23:46 Are you able to talk about all of your different deployments or some of them at least?

23:58 Yeah, I mean Bosnia Afghanistan and Iraq similar places in in the Arabian Peninsula, Central America, South America.

24:11 What was your most memorable deployment?

24:16 Oh, you know I hate that. I wouldn't say there's never one survive in there. Also, you need right inside mention like going down to Vanuatu, you know, even though it was even though that was a training that was still pretty fun and memorable because

24:33 The weather in the history of that country and then that island is to have known in that, in that vicinity is one of the places where that was where cannibals you are were popular. And you know what, I left. One of the soldiers gave me a club and he said, you know, this is the club like my grandfather used to kill his enemies. He was a warrior, Your World War II and things are not what they can. That's that was obviously in places like Iraq and in working Baghdad with the wits with the Iraqis is sitting at a table where, you know, you have different personalities around summer Subaru. Eager to work with us and talk with Shannon. And some, like there was an older guy that was one organization that I was working with on a regular basis. Will we meet once a week older guy would like, look, right ass and go you sticking Invaders? And while he wasn't outright hostile. He would certainly be a very blunt about the fact that we were in his

25:33 We were invited as far as he was concerned with the sooner. We leave the better, you know, but then you go to like, you know places like Afghanistan with you-know-who super grateful and never wanted us to leave. So you have, you know, that they were really hoping it Afghanistan would turn out something like Germany. Where us would have you? No enduring presence for a long time, not based on fighting a war which is based on Mutual cooperation and and corporate security arrangements and dumb.

26:11 Yeah, every trip has its own special set of memories and moments.

26:18 So, you returned from Afghanistan a little over a year ago, and we're coming up on another 9/11 and a pull out, and I'm wondering over the past.

26:39 20 + years. What have we?

26:45 What have we accomplished there?

26:48 Very complicated question, right? In the, in the sensitive, in the list of goods, what we are going to accomplishment, you know, many things that dances in human rights opening up. Many people are affected their to what's happening in the broader World. Many women's rights and and children's, education and women's education, huge amounts of accomplishments there and you know, that's often over.

27:20 Shadowed by the end of the problems, persist there.

27:26 Can insert lie for my overall overarching, kind of national security contract? If you have to question, what have we accomplished their that furthers, the security of the United States of America? That's yeah. That's a that's a good question. And I think the jury's still out. Right? Are we going to see rinse and repeat of what happened? You know, in the late 80s, post Soviet invasion, where all the crazies are going to come back in and, you know, set up the crazy Camp Sentara Sentara Central. Or you know, the people that we work with that it is understood and appreciated and respected the kind of values that that we talked to them about it work with them to achieve. Are they going to be able to, to protect their society / me? There's very clearly on a large swath of their population that would like to but they're up against a very brutal enemy that.

28:26 Dad fights with under very different rules and doesn't follow the same code of morality. And so that says it's a very difficult equation.

28:37 We both studied international relations. And I know when I studied it in college, there was a big debate going on about cold war vs, post-cold war and which era was more dangerous and more threatening. Our national security Cold War politics versus, you know, the fear of terrorism worldwide.

29:11 As we reach this twenty years past 911, Mark. What do you think? Is this new era in terms of National Security?

29:27 It continues to be nonlinear. It continues to be difficult for, for us to really understand and you know, where the bad guys are right, where where were the people who are actively working against our interests are going.

29:46 The doctor now is we've got, you know, larger animosity with China with Russia dinner with with more established Powers School actively be working by proxy or otherwise to to undermine us and to try to fundamentally restructure and change the world order to their benefit and away from our. So it's going to be a combination of the the the nonlinear district threat that we faced in the post-cold War era combined with a little bit of that cold war-era where you do actually have very stylish great Powers who are actively working to the NICU. Late is many different pieces on the chessboard as they can.

30:34 Berkeley honey.

30:43 I want to lighten it up a little bit, and ask about one of your favorite or two personalities from your appointment day service days. I've met so many of your military friend.

31:04 What, who, who is your funniest friend or your favorite friend is funny because there's so many moments. You can think back to her. Like, you know, you couldn't get it. Any better. If you went to Central casting a neck asked for an archetype and ask them to do like a specific thing. You know, like when I was a young stallion private, I had a first sergeant in the 82nd who he was a, former ranger battalion guy in, and he was always pushed us, really hard. He always wanted us to be the hardest toughest Nut Company in the 82nd. And, you know, it was one of those great leaders such as naturally led by example, but he was straight up Central, Casting hard-bitten, you know features and there was

32:04 Play where we were standing in the doorway of the barracks and this after work and it was just doing that. Classic Carolina raining, like crazy outside. I just buckets but you know, how to read this so hard. You can't even hear me talking to you. And we were standing there in a few people getting ready to try to make a run for their cars. And the first sergeant Watts, a piece smoking, a cigarette,, and he skied looks around is like, what are you all waiting for you, like what you waiting for the rain to let up for certain these? He's like ain't nothing but a thing and he slowly walked out into the rain, any states affected, another drug of a cigarette, but he just continues slowly pretending to smoke a cigarette and slowly like an exaggerated form. Walking down the sidewalk out into the street.

32:56 It was just one of those like, classic scenes, where all the young soldiers were like. She's so cool and slow motion. That's what he clearly knew what he was doing. But it was just like it was

33:16 Ain't nothing but a thing.

33:22 Oh, I always love your stories about the seven. I said that they are near and dear to my heart.

33:32 What about your so you went through a lot of you. No. Active duty to reserve duty to serve in Congress. It's so what was your toughest transition to civilian life?

33:50 Definitely the toughest was to go from the military deployed setting to the Congressional policy settings. So I was in Afghanistan. I was working amongst other things. I was the officer in charge of detainees for my Battalion and that's when I was a Jag officer for a special forces Battalion. And so, I helped oversee everything with the detainees were taken, from the battlefields by the team's, they'd be very limited amounts of time. And very strict legal guidelines on how long you can keep them thresholds of evidence to be able to continue to keep that on the transfer to our level up a little bit more time to develop more evidence, but all very strictly regulated. So very heavy roll for the legal adviser for the unit and within the context of that.

34:46 Do you know, we we also understood that there was a huge political turmoil coming, you know, raging about detainees and and treatment and all that stuff happening back in DC. And so, so happy that I left Afghanistan, went back to the Fort Bragg and for a variety of different reasons. I ended up it in a job interview for US, senator. And then was offered a job to go and work for him on policy that was related to all of that and I meant it. So many strange things such that. I was literally just within a few weeks went from sitting in Mountain City, and he's sitting at Bragg watching Senators, drill senior, officers in the committee room, to being a DC and sitting behind one of the Senators watching them Grill, senior officers.

35:46 And I think the really the toughest transition was just the level of disparity rightly. We were at the Forefront of some of that policy and we were in very heated debates with the White House and in a week late night meetings with White House staffers and you're my boss used to look like to call me out of somebody, come from working, all of those issues, you know, you know 6 or so to speak. As you look around the room that you've got a bunch of soda.

36:21 Policy makers that have never been in uniform that have never been down range in the end of the people who had no real, you know, sort of practical experience, without all kinds of opinions and ideas. And the degree to, which they were listening to their own uniformed officers to their own uniform services to people who had much more pragmatic experience in the end, the disconnect between the the political agendas and the pragmatic realities. I found very hard to, to, to reconcile into working frankly. I mean, I think that the job one of the most as much as there's more work orders. And you know, big fancy cars and you know, leather couches on Judson and stuff like that was probably in some ways.

37:13 The most unsettling job. I've had in terms of his terms of being. It being in that suit in the proverbial Ivory Tower, while people were still out on the front line, still doing all of that kind of work right now, as you know, within a year of that, I transferred to the reserves and they got called up and had to go back in the day that I touch down to put my feet on the ground in Baghdad.

37:42 I'm back where these people will be more honest.

37:50 We've got a little less than two minutes left and so quick question.

37:58 What part of this recording is it's for our kids? What do you want them to know about your military service, or what message? Do you want to convey to them about 47 years in the army?

38:16 It was fun. It was a great adventure. It was. Yeah, it was it was all worth doing it. I don't know that I would never push our kids to go into the military service unless they tell you don't internally drawing and compelled to, but I will certainly want them to just would have know and understand the importance of that role in society overall, it.

38:47 You know, we collected we did our part right to go back to you and the family is at home are just as much a part of that effort. Most of the people that, you know, that they leave the country to go, do it right at the heart of job. We did get to go out and have all kinds of Great Adventures to stay here, and make sandwiches, and get dinner on the table. And that's you do.

39:20 Thank you for your service. Thank you for your. We got to see you have this son adventures. And as I always said, every time I saw you on video chat, you were on fire and lit up. So.

39:35 I love seeing that and you thank you so much for the interview for Sharon.