Julie Kerwin and David Kleeman

Recorded February 24, 2020 Archived February 24, 2020 41:49 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: ddf000479

Description

Julie Kerwin (50) speaks with her friend and mentor David Kleeman (62) about the origins of her female action figure company, I Am Elemental.

Subject Log / Time Code

JK speaks about being an “accidental toy inventor,” and reflects on the male-dominated action figure segment and its hyper-sexualization of female toys as reasons for her concept and company’s creation.
JK recalls using the internet to find a designer and factory for her action figures. JK speaks about support from Kickstarter, and a large portion of her supporters being adult males. JK recalls her husband’s advice to “not emasculate men to empower women.”
DK asks JK for her observations on children’s play, based on gender. JK speaks about the way toys shape the ways children play, and recalls a mother telling her how her toys enabled her sons to envision women as heroes.
JK speaks about initial challenges with funding and production before finding word-of-mouth support and spread.
DK recalls meeting JK at the Toy Fair. JK speaks about being categorized outside of the “Action Figure” section at the fair, and being named one of TIME magazines’ top inventions of 2014. JK speaks about seeing other major toy brands follow suit after her success.
JK and DK talk about how popular characters that are already defined only narrow down imagination in play. JK speaks about her brand’s encouraging kids to “pick their own power.”
JK speaks about her own superpowers: creativity and ingenuity. JK talks about literacy as “the ultimate superpower,” and her love of books.
JK speaks about reading books with her sons every night even as they enter adulthood, and reflects on how reading books with female protagonists to her sons has shaped her them.
JK speaks about the team she works with, and the next steps for her brand.
JK shares childhood memories and speaks about the book “Free to Be…You and Me.” DK and JK talk about the toys they played with as children.

Participants

  • Julie Kerwin
  • David Kleeman

Recording Locations

Jacob K. Javits Convention Center

Venue / Recording Kit

Partnership Type

Fee for Service

Transcript

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00:00 Hi, my name is Julie Kerwin. I'm 50 years old. Today's date is February 24th 2020. I'm in New York City at the Toy Fair. My interview partner is David kleeman, and he is a dear dear friend and long-term mentor.

00:21 And I'm David kleeman. I am 62 years old. It's February 24th 2020. I too am in New York at the toy fair. I'm interviewing Julie Kerwin and we've been friends ever since I first met her on the floor of the Toy Fair probably about 7 years ago.

00:40 6 years ago we're here today to talk about. I am Elemental which you are the founder CEO created at wholesale out of your mind. Can you just tell us a little bit about what I am Elemental is is a company that was founded as a form of creation of the world's first female action figures designed specifically for girls, but loved by everyone so that you have two boys yourself, but the Genesis of I am Elemental came from a talk to you heard. Can you talk a little about what you were seeing in the world around you and how that talk inspired you to create the company gets really interesting I think because I always say that sometimes new ideas come out of unexpected places. And so I am Elemental was born out of a question and the question.

01:40 Why was why does Spider-Man appeal to a boy of 4 and a man of forty but there's no female equivalent and that may sound like a really odd question in 2020, but in 2012, that was an actual legitimate question. For example, Wonder Woman's purchasers or 90% Now the movie was not even in development yet. And so there was this question about why action figures and superheroes were so male-dominated. I went to a lecture at my son school and it was a brain expert name Joe antique and she was there to talk about the brain and development and one of the things that she said that night were has was girls and boys are as different from the neck up as they are from the neck down and I wrote it down and I went home and that night as I went to sleep with my husband. I started talking to him and I said

02:40 I have to do to win action figure to make it appeal to the female brains. And this is an absolutely true story. I woke up the next morning and I said I have the answer. It's not super heroes. It's super powers. My boys were both in science programs at the American Museum of Natural History in New York and two science was a big part of our lives and I printed out a blank periodic table of elements and I reimagined the periodic table as the elements of power and I wrote down creativity courage wisdom all sorts of powers that day and my husband came home from work that night and I made him by 32 main names. That's a true story which episodes you were not in the toy business of the time not at all. I call myself an accidental toy inventor. This was not anything that I was involved.

03:40 Didn't or planned on the idea that came to you was was for toys was for the action figures not any of the other kids relate to its actually an interesting point because it acts very much was immediately about action figures my younger son had a million action figures and they were hyper-sexualized in a way that I felt was inappropriate as a plaything for a child. Sometimes their breasts were bigger than their heads their waist were so small. They clearly had no rib cage their legs were, you know, kind of inappropriately long and the bums really got to you know, people talk about other parts, but the bums were really

04:33 Not proper. And so I am Elemental was born to do three things. The first thing was to create a figure that had what we call a healthier breast to hip ratio less Hooters more heroin with one of our taglines. The second thing was that we did reinvent the superhero myth. So in the IM Elemental Universe you David are the superhero and the figures are the personification of your powers the very first series that we developed was courage. So it's the seven building blocks of Courage bravery energy honesty industry enthusiasm persistence and fear and the third thing that we tried to do and I think this was very much born out of the fact that I had a house full of action figures and a son who loved them was. I knew that they had to be super cool and fun to play with or else there'd be no point so we try

05:33 It'd be really forward-thinking in the design and Engineering from the beginning when you have this idea and you know that the action figures that are surrounding you are completely inappropriate. Do you take one of those figures and remake it or did you have to start from scratch and go to experts in action figures and say if I if I draw it like this will it work? Cuz they were all of the inappropriate action figures in the things that we didn't like and that was the inspiration. You know, I always explain to people that if I had had this idea just a few years earlier. It would have remained an idea. I called the internet a Genie in a Bottle.

06:16 And it was transformative it democratized Innovation. And so because of the internet I was able to find an action figure designer who was willing to help me bring my idea into existence. I was able to find him Factory in China. I've never been to China who was willing to email and Skype with me and create an action figure that they could ship here that I could sell. I was able to find a warehouse that I've never seen that I can monitor from my house and I was able to do all of these things because the idea was born at a time when there was access absolutely and I always say to people they would be amazed if they saw the notes from my very first week at the ideas were flowing. What's the saying it was like a fire hose out of a spicket.

07:16 And so I was writing and writing and writing and I had been one of the early Kickstarter backer people. I was an early adopter and So within a week, I knew that I wanted to what I call test the hypothesis on Kickstarter and so I felt that we saw a hole in a market that there was a market for female action figures designs for girls. The industry was not creating them. We felt that there was interest that there would be interest because I was living it. I was a mom with kids and so Kickstarter was 100% always the decision first week that we were going to take this idea crowdfund it and prove that there was a market for this product never imagining that we'd have the success that we did. How long does it take to get to your goal?

08:16 Actually going to say from idea to Kickstarter October 2012 is when I woke up and like I say the idea was born like Athena out of Zeus's head and Mars May 2014 is when we launched on Kickstarter, we had a $35,000 ask we thought that was very rational and thoughtfully planned. You know, it's very interesting though because despite all the research I did and I'm a research freak one of the things I didn't realize until later. Is it something like two-thirds of all successful kickstarters raise $10,000 or less? So we thought we had picked this for a healthy $35,000. Ask the miracle was that we were fully funded in 48 hours and the fascinating thing about that funding was that the bulk of our first 35

09:16 $1 backers were adult male collectors. So one of the things that happened to be this amazing happy accident is that we thought that we were filling a hole and creating something for a certain audience. But sometimes you end up having a much bigger audience and you expect me to prove a point that there was an audience out there for kids needing something different in their play and what you got was adult collectors.

09:52 Remarkable there to this day. They're my biggest cheerleaders. I get more emails from fathers who are collectors buying for their daughters who are thrilled to be able to do this to play with or to collect play with and collect. It's been a really interesting thing and it just to go back one of the things that I do want to talk about because I think it was The Key to Our Success at Kickstarter is that when I was creating the storyboards for our Kickstarter, I thought that it would be absolutely hysterical to use reverse tropes Hazard imagery and so for example, my plan was to instead of having Luke Skywalker swinging across a ravine with Leia under his arm. I was going to have one of my action figures swinging Luke across the Ravine and this I thought it was hysterical and my

10:52 Open sat me down one night after my children were asleep. And he said to me, you know, I love you. You know, I'm all about the girl power your mywellesley woman, but I do want to remind you that you are raising two boys and you do not have to emasculate men to lift up women and honestly David I've had so much incredible advice over the last 6 years. You are one of those people who helped me so much along the way so many people in the toy industry. I've really been so lucky and grateful but I always say that my husband who had absolutely nothing to do with the toy industry gave me my single best piece of advice because what happened is is that it was like a lightbulb moment and I understood that what he was saying was not only

11:52 True but was important because what ended up happening is we opened up our product to everyone. So we say we're girls targeted boy inclusive and I argue as the mom of two boys that it's just as important to put a strong healthy female action figure in the hands of the boy is it is a girl and if we want to talk about gender equality and we want to see it happen in our lifetime. We have to educate both sides of the aisle. So this is jumping ahead a little but how does that play out in how kids play with iamelemental? Do you do find the they mix them in with their other action figures and create cross across the brand games do they see them as somehow different or does it just all become part of play, but they now have an option for a female to take the lead as well.

12:52 I think it's it's actually different depending on gender. Actually, that's what I have discovered because one of the things that we say one of our taglines is we are not anti dollar anti-princess. But if you give a girl a different toy, she will tell a different story and if you'll allow me to go off track for one second. I want to explain why that was something that we believed my younger son's best friend when he was little was a girl.

13:23 Whenever we would go to her house to play by the end of the day, she and her sister will be dressed as princesses and my son would be a knight wielding an imaginary sore saving them from some danger, but when the girls came to my house to play by the end of the day, all three of them would be dressed in armor with shield and swords or robes and Wands saving the day together. And so we saw this distinction in the play pattern depending on the toy. And so we really are very careful about arguing or explaining that the play that you do with a doll is different than the play with an action figure and sew a doll has hair that you brush clothes that you change an action figure has multiple points of articulation, which is meant to

14:23 Be used in active save the world play. And so what we were trying to do is we were saying we want to children to change the way that they think about the way that they play and about the way that they think about the world and the possibilities and that that would carry forward in their life boys on the other hand had never had an issue with an action figure and so one of my favorite favorite stories actually about this is that I had a mom whose boys I wouldn't say that they were about seven and nine years old and she gave them I am Elemental action figures and for them, they integrated them into their typical play pattern, but she came up to be one day very excited and she said to me Julie I just wanted to tell you the most remarkable thing happened the other day. She said I was walking past the living room and the boys were playing with their

15:23 Action figures and I heard my son say here. She comes to save you. She's coming to save the day and she said And Timely occurred to me that I had never ever heard him use she before as the one who was doing the saving and so these are the moments David that you know,

15:50 Reinforce everything that were trying to accomplish. Let's take it back to right after the the kickstarter-funded right after the kickstarter ended there had to be a little bit of a reaction like the dog that chases cars in one day catches one and it's like now I've actually got to do this. So what what happened right after the kickstarter is that about 80% of all kickstarter's either don't deliver on time or don't deliver it all and so we had a real goal in from the very beginning of making sure that we delivered on time because as I say whenever I do a Kickstarter panel or I advise someone who wants to do a crowdfunding campaign, the first thing I say to them is running a crowdfunding campaign and running a business or two very different things and you have to make sure that you want to do both

16:50 Before you actually engage in this very exciting Kickstarter project. So what happened is that we were fully funded in two days as you know, and then we went on to make $163,000 over the course of 30 days. We had backers in all 50 states and six continents at thousands of backers. And so now we had to produce a product and we had to do it before Christmas. So, it's June 13th that the kickstarter is over. We should be actually should we did keep selling week at the pre-orders. We ended up with another quarter on another quarter million dollars in pre-order sales and we had this wonderful wonderful group of team of women who had created their own Kickstarter called ruminate.

17:43 And they paid it forward like I tried to do now and they gave us their Factory the funeral so Stanley was our Factory Point person and so are action figure designer has minor he was helping me to take my imagination and realize it in the figures which we had done obviously prior to the campaign and then he worked with me and Stanley to make sure that we got everything ready for the molds and were able to go into production and we did where everything was working really beautifully and we were very excited and then the unexpected happens and we just got very very unlucky and December of 2014. There was a dock worker strike in, California.

18:39 And I actually find this very funny now because my grandfather back in the 50s had been the president of the Dock Workers Union in Philadelphia. So there's a certain kind of beautiful. Irony. All of this and so we found ourselves in a bit of a pickle. We ended up flying in the back product from our Kickstarter backers, obviously at an expense that we were intending to spend at to make sure that we delivered on time and then I personally emailed every single pre-order person explain to them what was happening and offered them a refund because I was not delivering for the Christmas holidays.

19:25 And I have to tell you I think I lost 12 orders out of everything people were so kind and so gracious and I always say that this was the best worst thing that ever happened to us because if this is not happened I would have sent all that product out into the universe and I would never have talked to her or anyone ever again. But instead I ended up with pen pals all over the world. If you had set out a generic email saying sorry, we're not going to be able to deliver on time. Let us know if you want to refund it would have been very different response this funny cuz that's one of the things that I didn't anticipate about running a company and selling a product is I really

20:09 Me Maybe it's embarrassing to say this but I wasn't thinking about customer service at all during development. But when the problems happened I all I cared about was customer service and making sure that everyone was happy and so it really transformed my business. I will also say that from a long-term perspective backers are not customers their cheerleaders and they continue to this day six years later to be very productive and engaged kind of what's that, you know, I told you friends and she told you friends and he told two friends. So they're our best marketing a nice. Happy Story So Far of being a nice small business operator, you mentioned how you and I first met and it was at I think you're first

21:09 Toy fair. I was just walking the aisles looking for Innovation and was completely stopped by by what you were doing. Just that I had to spend spend some time looking at it and then sought you out and talk to you afterward because if you're not buying or selling toys stay out of people's way during toy fair, but what was that first experience like to go from a big experience about the kickstarter and having to fulfill a lot of orders to suddenly being in the midst of this massive event. That is Toy Fair in trying to stand out.

21:41 First of all, it's funny just the other day. I found photos of you at my booth in 2015. So there's actual photographic evidence of you and me having that very first conversation. We fear was really important to us because I mentioned earlier we really we we wanted to show that we were not a novelty crowdfunding act that we were in fact a legitimate action figure company. And so toy fair was something that we viewed as a really important moment for us was to show the industry that we were legitimate. So to speak by the time they got to us there was no space in action figures and so they said to as we'd like to put you in modern design because we feel that you are figures really are so

22:37 Cool and different from the norm and so we said great sign us up. So we showed up to Toy Fair and it was really a remarkable thing because I understand your point exactly right here in this massive space and how do you get anyone to pay attention to you? Because we were in a situation where we had had this massive success and if we should back up for a second and and probably note that one of the things that happened to us, it's that time magazine named us one of the top 25 inventions of 2014. So we had gotten a certain amount of attention Prime to to look for you at solutely. And so we we had a constant stream of people for 4 days not understanding Annalise that that's not necessarily normal.

23:37 But it was our experience and so in addition to you. I have so many people that have come into our lives and become mentors friend supporters, press collectors Distributors designers.

23:57 That that came that toy fair in those four days. With whom were still close. We also I have to tell you how to steady steady stream of Executives from both Mattel and Hasbro. I joke and it's absolutely true that they all came to us with their toy fair badges turned around so we wouldn't know hahaha who we were talking to but we happen to be what ended up at the Forefront of this cultural Zeitgeist our Kickstarter opens with the question. Where are the action figures for girls and it was a question that no one had ever asked before and so we answered it. So you might not be surprised to learn that a few months after Toy Fair Mattel NBC announced DC. Superhero girls. Not long after that.

24:57 There was an announcement that there was a development deal to create a film around the Wonder Woman and the rest as they say is history. But one of the things that we were so proud of is that we were able to help move the needle now, obviously we are not metallon Hasbro so we could only move it so much but we started a trend which was amazing and it turned out it wasn't a zero-sum game because you've thrived as well as there is they have so there was room for for both did the the DC figures look like yours have they made the same adjustments of the breast to hip ratio and the

25:44 For two reasons. First of all know they make their first iteration was something that they called an action doll. And so the very first iteration of the DC superhero girls were the standard all they had real hair. They had this almost like a Barbie type body all day really did call it an action doll. That was how that was to them. That was their Gateway into introducing. I think the action figure into the girl play pattern, right so they were going to have different outfits in different clothes and try to see where it would take them. Obviously. They were using characters that were already designed and an existence. I'm going to Wonder Woman and Batgirl and that kind of thing and one of the things that we have to kind of circle back around on is that I am Elemental are not super heroes.

26:44 Their superpowers and so we were trying really to accomplish something very different Wii because of maybe my background and education and my interest in parenting at the time where my children were developmentally one of the really important aspects of I am Elemental is that we believe the kids are capable of understanding these Concepts younger than many adults give them credit for so we never dumped it down. I always say the figure wasn't Betty bravery or Patty persistence. It was bravery and persistence and when the child got the action figure there was a little booklet there and we would give them both the definition and a super power and so the definition was obviously asking them to think about their powers and then the super power was for the play engagement saree.

27:44 If you give someone a superhero, especially one that's known through other media through story your kind of narrowing their play experience. This is how you play with Toronto. This is how the story goes. This is the back story. If you give them a superpower, it really opens it up for them. That's that's where they say. What does courage mean to me was that before we launched we sent all of our friends a list of the definitions of the seven building blocks of courage and printouts of signs that the kids would hold up and say I am bravery or I am honesty and we asked the parents to ask their children to pick up hour and we got the most amazing response because the parents were saying I'm having conversations with my child that I've never engaged in before and they were learning. I took that when you pick your power it says it window into your soul.

28:44 So I take actual much nicer Signs Now of our Shields everywhere I go I take them. I brought them here to toy fair. I take them to Comic-Con whenever I go to a school and I say to people girl boy man woman, you have all of these Powers inside of you. I want you to tell me which one you're channelling most today. And one of the funny thing is that in seven years. Not one person. No matter their gender no matter their age. No matter nothing. They always take the time to pick up our no one randomly grabs. No one's like all just be this they all think about what the powers are and which one appeals or feels like them at that moment. So that's one of the things that I think has allowed us to transcend also be on just this early action figure for girl idea.

29:42 Well, I have the mall inside me to get it when I was creating. I am Elemental. I always the creativity but right now I've been using Ingenuity a lot enginuities just another word for problem solving and so I do think as someone who entered an industry with zero experience and if you know what ended up being a bootstrap startup, you know so much of what I'm doing is problem solving and so that's the that's the one of my identifying with the most now, I would love to achieve Mastery someday, but and and outside of the world of toys outside of the world of all of the stuff who are your Heroes 2 ended they shape what I am Elemental became

30:28 One of our taglines is literacy is the ultimate super power and books were my pleasure and salvation. I had some you know, my mother died when I was very young before she died. She made sure she had bread a book lover I suppose and so I was someone who always had my nose in a book. And so when you asked me that just now the first person who popped into my head, actually, I'm going to tell you a funny story about it is that we recently moved live in New York City and move Apartments. I moved to a new building and some new neighbor and passing said to me. Oh, yes Judy Blume lives in this building and David I swear to you. I I started hyperventilating. I almost had heart failure and the idea that Judy Blume lived in the same building but I lived in was

31:28 Ball thing powerful thing to know and I had read all of Judy blume's books. I always say that in second grade. We all had to write a letter to your favorite author and every single girl in the class road to Beverly Cleary, except me. I wrote to Judy Blume you can only imagine what it was like when I did finally get to meet her and my younger son afterwards it to me not so bad. You do something really really still read to your songs every night. You're the one is just about to graduate from college one is high school almost high school and you read together every night out loud. Where did that come from?

32:18 Okay, the truth is is that parenting was exhausting and I was never I wasn't reading any books anymore. Right? And so I wanted to read a book. And so when my older son was 3 years old, I basically said I'm going to repeat him a chapter book and I took one of my favorite chapter books from my childhood office shelf was Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and I sat next to him in the dark and I said to him I'm going to read a book to you. It's a listening book and you're going to listen to me and you're going to imagine her head what I'm saying? And that was how it started really a selfish need to read but it's I call it my parenting superpower and you know, my older my older son and I read and read and read and if what he's home from college, I read aloud to the whole family. We have books that we read together and then my younger son and I have a book in my bag that we read at bus.

33:18 In taxis waiting in line for things in New York City and then we have another book that we read it and night that it was that one and then honestly, we have a third book David if you can believe it that we read with my husband because he's not always around and he would get mad because he was he was afraid for him. But I do think interesting way. I do think one of the fun things that I did which maybe was a little bit of a seed for iamelemental is that I intentionally read a lot of girl power books to them. I read books with female protagonist constantly and I said to people I'm just going to keep reading them until they make me stop and guess what ever and so I think that's probably one of my Great accomplishments as a mom, you know, it was wonderful. I was allowed to read books to them that maybe were a little more

34:18 Developmentally ahead of where they were but because I was reading them we could talk about them. They would ask me what does that mean mom? So they say because I think it helps them in school because they were never afraid to say I don't know what that means. You know if there were so many benefits of it but I always say at the end of the day that you know, listen we both know David parenting is hard right and you know, it's a work in progress. And so I always said that no matter how annoying I was to them how many times they roll their eyes at me at the end of the night. We met we ended every single day the same way and it's a wonderful wine. So many of the things that you've described when you read together are things that have been subsumed by media that way instead of reading at the bus stop or take out her phone instead of

35:18 Reading it bedtime. We can go watch the television show but you really put books and reading and literacy rate in the center there a conversation so far has been about you and about with the help of your husband and help us some advisers but you've built a team. It's not a big team and that's really critical that that you have managed to grow a good size business with a very small team. How did you go about putting together the right team to be limber and Nimble and all those important things unsexy startup. We are we are small But Mighty and at one of the things that I really really love about us is that the there's four of us that are the core and we've been together now for the entirety of the whole thing and so it's funny Vanita and I penitas my co my partner in crime and she and I were talking about this a little bit

36:18 Recently and I think that you know, one of us one we have a lot of headlines me. I am Elemental universe and one of them is shared everyone's Powers were stronger and we obviously all bring our own powers vanitas her superpowers logic, you know, I mean, everybody's got their own superpower Angelica's my PRI David when we had the success that we had. I had no social media. We had nothing and we were suddenly getting phone calls from so I was on CNN, you know days later after launching and so we got very lucky Angelica carry came into our lives in a 411 moment and we never let her leave and she's amazing causes my designer and you know, he's a talented artist an engineer and I bully him around and make him Bend to my will but all of us live in four different cities and we make it work and we are problem solvers.

37:18 Flexible, you know, I just think we're hard workers. We never pretend to know something. We don't know and it's really it's beautiful a beautiful thing in Elemental. Well, it's funny because one of the only things that the collectors didn't like and challenge Tucson was the fact that we had no backstory. In fact, some of them may have called us lazy, but it was a deliberate decision because we were arguing that we didn't want to spoon feed story to kids. We wanted them to the creators of story of their own invention. However, you have to listen to your customers and our customers wanted story and so for the past year-and-a-half we've been in development working on story. It was very hard who is going to be a villain very deliberately. I didn't want to mail villain because I didn't want it to be girl versus boy, but I also would like I don't want a girl villain either because I didn't want what I call girl-on-girl Prime so, you know, it's taken

38:18 Five years kind of it's also not Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, you know, we have it's more it's more Mount Olympus because they're so we have 7 series of action figures courage wisdom. Next up is justice. So we have a lot to unroll and so it took some time to come up with the concept but the story of Bibles done. I love it. I love our villain, you know, she has very good intentions, but she's doing things she shouldn't be doing and I think it's going to be really exciting. Once we get there is one of the taglines is real heroes Walk Among Us and I think anyone who steps so far out of their comfort zone from what you were doing before you creating. I am Elemental to really Empower boys and girls to fight the toy industry of times but also being a critical part of it to win the kind of awards you have I think that's a real hero who walks Among Us. So Julie Kerwin. Thanks for sitting down with me.

39:18 You so much David. That is so lovely. Thank you.

39:31 Can you talk a little bit about what toys you play with when you're growing up to your member Yes, actually my mother was, you know, a woman who was coming of age as a mother during the 70s during the Yom is movement and one of my actually clearest memories and childhood was her sitting me on my bed and handing me a book called free to be you and me by Marlo Thomas and it was exactly the perfect dude put into the i m Elemental pot because it was really all about the notion that you know girls and boys were all the same and we were all the same and you could be anything you wanted to be. I had it as an album too. And I would play my record player in my room all the time. And then in our we had a playroom and my playroom was lots and lots and lots of wooden blocks.

40:29 Milk crates we had milk crates full of wooden blocks. My mother was I'm not going to lie. She was anti Barbie. I never had a Barbie. I had family dolls. We had tons and tons of Playmobil. I love my brother and I love Playmobil and we would set up all of these imaginary scenarios. And those were the toys that I remember the most and I think that those are you know, that those are very good examples of what how to seed a child because they absolutely came back around. I'm the youngest and I'm the only boy in my family and youngest of four in the only boy and my parents were very anti-gun and I wish I had asked them this while they were still alive because when they finally relented and but I wanted a gun to play with and when they finally relented they not only bought me a gun they bought me the ultimate gun sling come Johnny 7 Oma you can still find ads for it online.

41:29 There was seven guns in one. Oh my gosh. Talk about Overkill. That's very funny.