Karen Kiely and Sandra May

[00:02] KAREN KIELY: My name is Karen Kiely I am 57 years old. Today is Saturday, March 19, 2022. I'm at the Greenwood Cultural center in Tulsa, Oklahoma, interviewing my mother, doctor Sandra Tilkin May.

[00:22] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: My name is Sandra Tilkin May. I'm 81 years old. Today is Saturday, March 19, 2022. We are at the Greenwood Cultural center in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I'm being interviewed by my daughter, Karen Kiely

[00:41] KAREN KIELY: Okay, mom. Well, I'm so excited to have this opportunity. First question is, describe where you grew up and what is your fondest memory from your childhood.

[00:54] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: I grew up, I lived born in Chicago, and then we moved. The family moved to east Chicago, Indiana, where my parents opened up a small supermarket. And that's where I grew up and went to school. And it was a wonderful high school with many different cultures and a lot of diversity. And one of my fondest memories of being with my parents was when we went to visit my grandparents on Sunday to meet the family. We had a very large family in Chicago. Remember that as a child, them picking us up at Sunday school and taking us to Chicago to meet with our cousins, our aunts and our uncles, and my grandmother.

[01:34] KAREN KIELY: And I certainly remember your grandmother as well.

[01:37] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Grandma Kate.

[01:38] KAREN KIELY: Grandma Kate. So what life lessons did you learn from your parents?

[01:45] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: I would say the first thing was hard work. Hard work pays off, and it did for them. I had a lovely growing up time. I even helped them in their, when I got to be a young teenager, I helped them in the store on the weekends and realized they tried to be as social as they could. And they just taught me good social skills and how to treat people kindly and be sensitive to others.

[02:12] KAREN KIELY: Oh, that's beautiful. I think you told me that you learned how to cut meat from the store. From the grocery store, right?

[02:21] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: I did. My father became a butcher, and he showed me how to cut meat. Held me in good stead all my years, being married and having children and entertaining.

[02:31] KAREN KIELY: That's why you always recognize a good cut of meat for a brisket, right?

[02:34] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Right.

[02:36] KAREN KIELY: So you are a second generation immigrant whose grandparents fled russian aggression, coincidentally, and persecution of Jews in eastern Europe. How did your knowledge of their experience influence you?

[02:53] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Well, I knew they. My grandparents came over and went to Chicago through the port of New York and went into business. My grandfather was a tailor. Unfortunately, he died before I was born. But they did well enough to be able to own some property. So my grandmother, while she wasn't a wholly educated woman, she was very, very smart and did very well for herself in this life.

[03:20] KAREN KIELY: I remember you told me a sad story about how she died.

[03:24] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: She was a very religious woman and went to the synagogue for services regularly. And while she survived cancer, she was walking home from services one day and was hit by a hit and run driver and never recovered from that. And she was 85, I think, at that point.

[03:45] KAREN KIELY: Sad. That always stuck with me, and I know I'm named after her.

[03:49] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Yes, you are, Kate.

[03:50] KAREN KIELY: Yeah.

[03:50] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Mm hmm.

[03:52] KAREN KIELY: So how has your jewish identity impacted you and the choices you have made throughout your life?

[04:00] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Well, I don't consider myself to be a wholly religious person. I think I'm spiritual. I am glad to be. I am proud to be a jewish person. I do belong to both a synagogue and a temple with reform and conservative leanings. And I guess my jewish background has just taught me to be very sensitive to others and do the best I can to help everyone.

[04:28] KAREN KIELY: Tikkun Olam. Right. Karen. And prepare for the world.

[04:31] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Right.

[04:31] KAREN KIELY: Repair of the world. Yeah. So why did you choose to become a teacher?

[04:36] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Well, part of that was, you know, at that point in time, graduating from high school, my parents, whether they were not educated, I was the first person in my family to go to college, and they felt that teaching would be a good endeavor. And I didn't disagree. So I did that. And I thought maybe I should have gone into retail, because I did a lot of work in high school, working in different clothing stores, selling children's clothes, women's clothes, men's clothes. But if I had it over again, I would have done the very same thing, because I loved teaching, and I loved. Then I became a psychometrist, testing children, and then I was a reading specialist, and then I became an administrator, and I loved making things work for everyone, helping teachers do the best they can in the classroom, and helping parents understand the relationship between teachers and parents to do the best they could for their childhood.

[05:34] KAREN KIELY: That's wonderful. And what made you want to become a school administrator and pursue your doctorate of education degree?

[05:41] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: I just thought I could do more than just being in the classroom to make things happen for children that had special needs, whether it be gifted and talented or with learning disabilities or anything else that would help them do the best they can, be more successful in the classroom. I felt that I could be helpful in that regard.

[06:03] KAREN KIELY: That's wonderful. So you were at Jenks public schools for 29 years before you retired. And what are some of your fondest memories from those years at Jenks

[06:16] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Well, I helped initiate several different programs, and one of the ones that I remember was having an after school tutoring program for children. I was always k through k through fifth grade. And you had children that needed more, who weren't eligible necessarily for special ed programs, but needed tutorials. So I worked it out with the person in charge of busing to bring these children, especially from this neighborhood, where there were some apartment complexes, and these children needed to have the extra help after school. So I did that. I also started the first full time, four year old program, I'm sorry, kindergarten program before it became legislatively done in the state of Oklahoma. And it helped those children that were actually going to daycare afterward. They could have full time. They had to pay. The parents had to pay for it, but they were willing to do that because they converted those dollars from childcare to having an exceptional teacher in the classroom. And then it became mandated by the state. So I was really proud of that. And then I tried to get parents involved, and a lot of it had to do with decorum in the cafeteria, and I invited parents to come and sit with their children at lunch, and that was something I enjoyed.

[07:44] KAREN KIELY: I remember there was another program you started. It was a dual generation program that.

[07:51] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Was at the Gray's living center, where I didn't initiate that program, but I took it over and built it to make it even involve more children and a couple different teachers. And to have seniors interact with the children. They built a special classroom for us and playground, and even had children had a little graduation ceremony before they went back to the elementary school.

[08:18] KAREN KIELY: That must have been a wonderful experience for both the kids and the seniors.

[08:22] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: That were living there. It was. It proved to be very worthwhile.

[08:27] KAREN KIELY: Now, you retired from Jenks but then you were drawn out of retirement to become a school director for Mizel Jewish Community day school. What? Why was that?

[08:39] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Well, the day school, it was undergoing some difficult problems, and I was asked if I could help them, and I was willing to be a consultant, but the way it turned out, they hired me to be the director. I lost my first husband, and I thought, well, I will give them five years. And I had to brought teachers with me from Jenks to do that and built the program back up until I met my second husband and then retired again.

[09:06] KAREN KIELY: Again. How many years were you at Mizel?

[09:09] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: I was there for eight years instead of the five thought I would.

[09:12] KAREN KIELY: Eight years. Wow. So how are you spending your time since your second retirement? And what activities do you enjoy the most?

[09:23] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: I would say for the most part, my goal was to become a docent at Philbrook Museum, which I did do. And it was a year's training and by doing that, I met lovely people and was able to actually help educate others in terms of art. And then I also went back and became a docent at the jewish museum to give back to that community. And so I currently do both and enjoy doing both, learning more about art and the culture every day and communicating that with the people that come to visit.

[09:57] KAREN KIELY: I think you've told me that because of your public education experience, you're often given tours with children.

[10:03] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Many children. Yes, children, all the way through college and adults.

[10:09] KAREN KIELY: That's fabulous. So you found love twice. You were married to dad more than 40 years before he passed away in 2005. And then you met Mike, and you were married for nearly six years before he passed away in 2020. What do you believe are the key ingredients for a happy marriage?

[10:32] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Well, I think the first thing is mutual respect for each other. And I think that one has to recognize we all have strengths and weaknesses and be aware of that. And I was told a very long time ago that marriage is not a 50 50 proposition, that it changes over the years depending on the needs of the individuals. But in both husbands, I found the same kind of, while they were different personalities, they had the same character values. That was kindness and dignity for everybody and just being sensitive to people's needs and the fact that they were both great fathers.

[11:12] KAREN KIELY: Indeed. Wow. Yeah. And Mike even became a second grandfather to my own kids, and he really strived to make them feel as welcome as his own grandchildren, so that he was a beautiful person as well.

[11:24] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Thank you.

[11:26] KAREN KIELY: I know we all miss him. So what are some of the most important lessons you have learned in life?

[11:34] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: I think one of the things is lifelong learning is something that I really, truly believe, and it happens to be a traditional jewish value. But I get great pleasure in learning new things all the time and communicating that when I need to. I think it makes you a more interesting person. I value, of course, I value my children greatly, but I value my friends as well. And this is why I like spending time with friends, whether it's going to the opera, whether it's going to the Broadway series Symphony, that's something I've always enjoyed. And fortunately, both my husbands felt the same way. I enjoy traveling and learning about different people, different places, and I just think it makes you a happier person to be able to take new ideas and people into your life.

[12:31] KAREN KIELY: Well, that's wonderful. And I know when I talk to my sister Lori and brother Mike, we always joke that we can't wait to retire so we can do all the amazing things you get to do all the time and have as active of a life as you do. So what are you most proud of in your life?

[12:53] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: I think the thing I'm most proud of are my children. They have done us proud. I regret the fact that my first husband wasn't here to see what they become, what they contribute to the world. And my grandchildren, I value all them the most. Next in line would be my friends and what I can do to make my life more meaningful for them and for myself.

[13:21] KAREN KIELY: Well, that's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. You know, the feelings mutual. So has your life been different than what you'd imagined?

[13:30] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: I never thought I'd be living in Tulsa, Oklahoma. That, I have to tell you, grew up. I went to Indiana university as an undergraduate student and lived lived in Munster, Indiana. North of Chicago, northwest of Chicago. Northeast, I'm sorry, northeast of Chicago. But it was the best movie could have made for all of us, for my husband, for myself. In terms of my career. I was home for ten years with children and don't regret a moment of it. And that's when I started back and went to school to get my master's initially. But I think my career took off after I got to Tulsa. And I don't regret anything I did for a moment. I'm just so pleased. And the one thing I used to tell them both is, I love my life.

[14:22] KAREN KIELY: That's great. Wow. And did you find Tulsa to be a welcoming city?

[14:27] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Absolutely. Yes, I did. Of course, working all those years, I met lovely people, but I have lovely friends. You have the same friends today that haven't moved away or passed that I had 40 years ago. So I'm grateful to all of those friends. It's almost like a second family.

[14:45] KAREN KIELY: Yeah, that's true. You do have a lovely group of friends that I know you've met almost on day one since when we moved here right in the seventies. Yeah. So what are you most grateful for in your life?

[14:59] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Well, I'm grateful for my parents and the love that they gave me, the love and support and they were my strength, you know, and, you know, almost told me I could do anything I wanted to do. And I truly felt that way. And that's what I tried to do to make them proud of me and pass that on to my children right now.

[15:21] KAREN KIELY: You have a brother. Do you want to talk a minute about Uncle Joel?

[15:24] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Uncle Joel? Yes. I'm almost four years older than he, but we've been very close over the years because he was my little brother. My parents worked six days a week, 12 hours a day. I spent a lot of time with my brother, taking care of him. And, of course, as a younger sibling, we had our moments, but he's been there for me, and I cherish his love and his friendship. Don't get to see him very much because he lives in Florida most of time and then in Illinois, but we still are close, and he's there for me if I need him.

[16:01] KAREN KIELY: Yes. And they know. He and Angeline have been so supportive of you.

[16:05] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Very supportive.

[16:06] KAREN KIELY: Yes, they are. So for future generations of your family, listening to this recording years from now, is there any wisdom you'd want to pass on to them? What would you want them to know?

[16:22] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Be open to people and be all you can be. Pursue your dreams and don't regret. I have no regrets about what I did, and I hope they don't either. Just go forth and be the best person you can be.

[16:44] KAREN KIELY: Is there anything that you would like to ask me? Me?

[16:49] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Well, I guess what made you. You've done so many things in your life, but what made you pursue your dreams? How did that come about?

[17:01] KAREN KIELY: Right. Well, I think I certainly inherited your love of education and lifelong learning, and you and dad definitely encouraged me to. To do whatever I wanted to do from an early age. And I think initially, I wanted to. As you know, I studied Chinese in high school, and I really wanted to live abroad. That was my initial goal. I didn't really care. Doing what? It just happened to be international banking for a while. But I fulfilled that, as, you know, being able to live in Hong Kong and Taipei and then eventually changed jobs and lived in Beijing for five years. So I really valued your support. I remember when I first told you guys I wanted to go study abroad when I was in college in Beijing, and you were not that keen on the idea. It was back in the eighties. And dad said to me, if you want to do this, it sounds like a wonderful opportunity. We're behind you all the way. And I remember you were a little bit tearful about it, but he was encouraging me, and I really value that you guys supported me 100%. So I think the language was what took me to Asia. And I think what has drawn me into this job as a nonprofit leader is, I think, the education, the value of education that you both instilled in me because dad was in educational publishing and you were, of course, an educator. So I think working for a nonprofit that's helping families who are low income and helping young children be successful and get a head start, literally, in life, I think I want to leave the world a better place than I found it. And I think that's a value that both of you passed on to me. And that's why I truly love what I do now at Cap Tulsa and what has drawn me into this, into this role. And I see myself retiring from capped Tulsa.

[19:03] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: Well, we certainly were grateful that you decided to, when you and Mark got married, that you came to Tulsa. We'd have been happy if you had gone to California, but the fact that you moved six blocks away had been fantastic and able to see the boys grow up, spend so much time with them. And then for me to be by myself now, to have you here has just been a real bonus for me.

[19:24] KAREN KIELY: Well, for me as well. And I think. I don't believe I never thought I'd return to Tulsa and live here as an adult, but after living in New York and then living abroad for so many years. But I think it was the best decision we made for. Well, for me personally, to be near you and dad and then Mike, and then also for the boys to grow up near grandparents, I think, is a blessing. And I know as the years roll on, Lori and Michael are really happy that one of us is here, right, to take care of each other. So I think that's. It's turned out to be a great decision for our families, for sure.

[20:03] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: I just feel like the luckiest person, and I'm just happy to say that.

[20:08] KAREN KIELY: Well, thank you. Well, you are a blessing, mom. And this has been such a fantastic experience, just being able to record all of this and to be able to make sure that we've got it for posterity for future generations. And I just thank you that you were willing to have the interview experienced today through StoryCorps.

[20:29] SANDRA TILKIN MAY: It's been my pleasure. And I'm so happy that you asked me to do this.