Karen Monroy and Ashlee Hunsbedt

[00:00] KAREN MONROY: Hi, my name's Karen Monroy, and I'm 60 years old. Today is Wednesday, June 16, 2021. We are in central New Jersey, and my partner's name is Ashley Hunsbedt and Ashley is my spirit daughter.

[00:18] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Hi, I'm Ashley Hunsbedt I am 29. And we kind of wanted to start our conversation today. I wanted to ask you about what got Ability to Work started and what inspired you to start the work.

[00:36] KAREN MONROY: Wow. So I had been thinking about what the world was like as I had experienced it through my son's eyes. And Zachary has autism. He was going to be aging out of school. And when he was going to be aging out of school, I recognized that there was really no life that he could have that had any kind of meaning to him or perhaps to even other people. And I had done a lot of work, over a decade's worth of work within the system of health, mental health, especially as it pertained to those who were, as we call them, differently abled, whether they had autism or whether they had downs or were intellectually disabled or anything like that. And I recognized that they were the most marginalized population in the world. And I kept thinking about this book that was a children's book that I used to read to Zachary's older brothers. And it was where in the World Is My Place? And it just really haunted me that the answer was, oh, he wasn't going to have a place. I mean, while Ed and I, my husband and I were alive, that he would definitely have a place. But after we died, that was really just a complete unknown. And so I thought, well, I need to change the life that I'm living right now. Obviously, Ed and I worked very closely together on this and put the foundation together for Ability to Work and then for all the projects that Ability to Work was going to do. And that's kind of how it all started. So the Ability to Work. I started Ability to work back in 2009, but we didn't really become public as the public knew us until 2013. And that was when we opened Grateful Bites in November. In November of that year. So do you remember how we first met at the beginning of this project?

[03:11] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. You know, my background was not in the differently able community. My background was I was classically trained at the Culinary Institute of America. I was learning how to be a pastry chef. I was in the food world. And, you know, I had just graduated, and life obviously was not going the way that everyone thought it would go. When you graduate from culinary school, And I had bopped around from a few kitchens and a few jobs that were really cutthroat and such toxic environments. And so, you know, just not conducive to work, life balance or any sort of living or having a life. And I knew there had to be something more and there really had to be a different way to live in the food world. And I had worked in the building that was Grateful Bites. When I was in high school, it was a different bakery. And I had worked with a woman who signed on to be front of house for you, and she had recommended you find me for the bakery. And what was interesting is I had come in and I had interviewed, and I wasn't really sure. I was a little tentative, a little worried. And I went back to the job I was working and the job I was working as, you know, a CIA graduate with my bachelor's in pastry. I was making sandwiches.

[04:47] KAREN MONROY: The height of your culinary aspirations?

[04:50] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: I was, you know, I could do all these things from scratch. I, you know, I could do Michelin star level food, and I was making sandwiches for the public. And I remember the people I worked for were also, you know, very toxic, and it wasn't a great work environment. And I remember I had turned down coming to work here because I was scared. And I finally had, like, this breakdown. And I was actually in the bathroom of the place. I was working in tears, like, I can't do this anymore. I can't do this. And my phone goes ding. And it was, it was you. And you were like, hey, we still haven't really found anyone who's a good fit for the bakery. Do you have any recommendations for, you know, other people you may know from school and all that stuff? And I was like, actually, I'm in. Like, I'm done. Let's. Let's just do it. And I remember I had. I was still really scared. It was a different world. It wasn't, you know, something I was used to. And I remember the first phone call we had with you. I got off the phone and I was like, oh, oh, no. Like, she, she's, she's got her stuff together and like, she expects the people who come work for her to be adults. And, and like, she was telling it how it is. There was no, there was none of that, like, beating around the bush. There was none of that. A lot of times in the culinary world, there's a lot of, like, false narratives of like, oh, we're family. And like, oh, we're family really means, like, we're gonna work you 80 hours a week and you're gonna die. But we're family, so it's okay. And you were very much like, look, I get it, the food world sucks. Like, you gotta put your big girl panties on and jump or keep suffering.

[06:39] KAREN MONROY: Yeah, I definitely knew that you were afraid. I wasn't quite sure what you were afraid of at the time. And I think one of the things that I was just very conscious of was that it was. I knew the spiritual truth, that it was impossible to change the lives of all the differently abled apprentices. And we called them apprenticeship because they're here learning, they're learning social skills, emotional skills, cognitive skills, not just the technical skills of self care and how to do things in a kitchen, but they're really, you know, we're developing them into whole people. And I knew that it was impossible for anyone to be working with them who was also, you know, not aware of how toxic their environment was. And it was a very conscious thing I did on my part to create an environment for everybody, whether they were entering from the food expertise perspective or whether they were entering from the therapeutic perspective that we would all be working together on. You know, there's. The differently able can't have a place if the food people don't have a place. And the food people can't have a place if the. The differently abled don't have a place. And that a rising tide lifts all boats. And that was really the core of our mission. And how it started was doing things a very different way. And of course, through the years, that's presented a lot of different challenges. When you think of the challenges of approaching what we've done differently, you know, what is like a big one that comes to mind for you, I think.

[08:39] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Really, you know, you can't heal and help other people without healing and helping yourself. And there, you know, it was very clear from the beginning my background in my life not only was, you know, the culinary industry very toxic and abusive, but growing up was very toxic and abusive for me. And so I, you know, I had, I had said before that I knew there was something more to it. And I was always drawn to helping other people. So coming on here, I really learned that you really had to clean up pretty fast and you really had to start healing yourself. Because even though the differently abled population might not have words to describe exactly what your behavior is, they understand it and they feel the energy and they get it. And with the turnover rate that this industry has, it was very clear it attracts very broken people. Culinary Is true, it did. It is just an industry where broken people go to find their home. And you know, there had been many people over the years that felt healed coming here and healing differently abled individuals. And then there was many people who, you know, self selected out and it was very clear that they weren't willing to, you know, clean up. And I knew what I learned mostly is to be an effective therapist, you can't be struggling with your own internal like self hatred and all these things to be able to help other people. And I think everything that you learn, the apprentices are learning as well. And teaching them how to love themselves in turn helps you learn how to love yourself and how it creates an environment where everyone succeeds and you have this kind of community that supports each other.

[10:44] KAREN MONROY: Yeah. And even teaching them emotional intelligence, like there's this expectation that they can learn it. You know, this is an entire population of individuals who most of the world doesn't think has emotions.

[11:02] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Yeah. The big, you know, false meme of your kid was diagnosed with autism. He's never going to love you. He's never going to understand the world. He's never going to do any of.

[11:14] KAREN MONROY: These things or it doesn't even have emotions like pride or want a pride in finding meaningful interactions in his community or wanting, seeking, you know, community connections. And I've noticed through the years of the number of different people, especially those who self selected out of this healing journey, when you would say to them, hey, the apprentices have to learn this too. And you know, you, you can't be the thing that's holding them back because they already have this huge list of things that's holding them back their entire life, you know, not just their neurological processing, but it's, you know, what the world thinks of them and so on and so forth. And it's like, you know, you choosing not to do this work, you know, you choosing to respond in anger or upset in circumstances where you're frustrated.

[12:14] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Oh yeah, there was no Hell's Kitchen happening here at all.

[12:16] KAREN MONROY: Oh gosh.

[12:17] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Yelling, no anger, no passive aggressive. Like, that's right. That doesn't fly.

[12:22] KAREN MONROY: And you know, and I just would be surprised sometimes at the various chefs who were like, yeah, I can't do it. And I would think, well, I appreciate your honesty, but you know, and you know, I wish you well. I hope that at some point you learn to do this work in your life. And so, you know, one of the things that I have to say though is obviously, I mean, we've been together for 10 years now.

[12:51] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: I still can't believe it's been a decade. Me neither.

[12:56] KAREN MONROY: I was a lot younger when it started, and, you know, and I. And I think to myself, you know, gosh, you're such a different woman than you. You were back then. And the whole wonder of you becoming a different woman and being willing to be vulnerable and just keep your heart in it, you know, I mean, this is a question I've wanted to ask you for a while, is when it's tempting to close your heart, how do you not.

[13:35] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: It is. It's. It's. Especially the past, you know, year has been incredibly hard for.

[13:41] KAREN MONROY: Yeah.

[13:41] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: For everyone. The whole world. There isn't. You know, and if you guys are wondering what I'm referring to, it's the pandemic and Covid and basically the world at stake, standstill. And I think it's. It's really easy to get lost in life, you know, the world happening to you, and it's really easy, you know, with all of the political turmoil and the world turmoil, it's. You kind of want to turn your emotions off. You don't want to feel those things. I mean, I'm the prime example of watching the news, and I cry. Like I have. You know, I feel everything super deeply. And I think what motivates me really, is showing that vulnerability and showing that emotion helps these individuals tenfold. Like, had I not healed, I mean, we have one apprentice that comes from an environment that's very similar to the environment that I grew up in. And had I not done the work and opened my heart, I wouldn't be able to communicate him in a way that he can understand the emotions he feels, and he can work through those things. And I think on the bigger picture level, you know, life would not be. If I turn off my emotions, all the pain and all the heartache and all the hard things that we go through, I would also miss out on all the happiness and all the joy and all the fun we have and. And our traveling and the milestones we see. And seeing in an apprentice's face the realization that they are whole, they are human, they are loved, they are worthy of love, and they are worthy of having that joy and that pride in themselves. And feeling like a part of community just makes every day makes it totally worth it. I'm like, no matter what I did, no matter what I went through, you know, the joy I have in my life and the ability to truly make an impact in someone's life, who, had they been left to the real world, never would have Felt the way they feel.

[16:00] KAREN MONROY: I think of one of our apprentices and when he first came, if you remember, you know who I'm talking about, he used to run in the building and he had always fallen asleep in the car and he used to run into the building and he would find the sofa in the Chillax Room room. And he would first clock in, but then he would run to the sofa and fall back asleep.

[16:27] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Yep. And wouldn't you love to do that?

[16:33] KAREN MONROY: He was morbidly obese.

[16:35] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Yes. And no one had challenged him his whole life. They just.

[16:40] KAREN MONROY: He was accepted. Yeah. He was a tyrant in his home. He ran everything in the house, including his. All his unhealthy nutritional habits, adult self care habits, so on and so forth. And when he transitioned out of here to go work full time, he was a completely different person. But his family also had the ability to transform. And you know, one of the things that I've noticed in working with families was that it's paralleled exactly our individual work that families come up to that edge of, okay, we're expecting our differently able child to transform and yet we're not changing. Right. We're not healing this, we're not healing, we're not doing the internal work we need to do to set up a, a co therapeutic environment. And then, you know, on some areas it's a yes and you make progress and you know, it's two steps forward and one step back. And I see families take such different approaches to this journey as well. And even within our, you know, our own family. Even within your spirit, dad. I mean, it's been so nice the last couple of years to watch him really embrace and finally step up this healing aspect of himself instead of feeling guilty because his son's autistic and instead of being angry or upset that, you know, he had a long day and there were demands, you know, being made of him or put on him to, you know, occupy that new co therapist rule that there were requirements, you know, he cleaned up things he said and how he said them. And the approach he took because the approach needed was the therapeutic approach. And so I've seen so much change for the better. And at the same time I hold in balance this constant thing of okay with all of this change for the better. You know, like, I don't recognize the individuals who are still here from who they were when they first started. And there's this realization that I try to have every week before our staff meetings where I remind myself a year ago or two years ago where this individual is showing up in their life today and how they're communicating and how they've established relationships. Like two years ago I would have said, I wouldn't maybe have thought that was possible. And this idea of no limits, no limitations, no excuses, that we aren't going to be the limitation. And like we just got back from our week trip with them. We all went down to Cape May.

[19:55] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Yeah.

[19:56] KAREN MONROY: And would you have a sleep away trip?

[19:59] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: No parents.

[19:59] KAREN MONROY: No parents. And would you have thought that that would have been possible and that we would have had so much fun and it.

[20:08] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Yeah. No. Years ago, even just two or three years ago, I, I would probably tell you, I'd be like, wait, what you want us to do?

[20:17] KAREN MONROY: What, what are you smoking?

[20:20] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: And I'm like, you know, and. Yeah, and it's, it's, it's a testament to what we've created and it's a testament to, you know, the road we firmly put both of our feet down onto. And you know, no one has ever done learning. There's no such thing as.

[20:46] KAREN MONROY: Yeah, right.

[20:46] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: We fixed it. It's, you know, and I feel like every step we take, we learn something new.

[20:54] KAREN MONROY: Yeah.

[20:55] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: And we tweak things, we make things better. But yeah, I just, a lot of times I'm, I mean, even taking Zach, we, we hiked on Sunday and we took Zach to. Yes, I took Zach back and it was a rock scramble. And even two, three years ago, Zach and his confidence in his body and his balance and his, you know, sight and how he could see things was very shaky and he was always very nervous. And I took him back and we did this rock scramble. And I'm prepared for him to be like, oh, no, I don't want to do this. This is scary. And I'm like, okay. And I gave him the choice, you know, big thing, always giving him choices. And I said, do you want to follow me? Do you want to go first? Do you want to go side by side? And he's like, I follow you. And so I took a few steps expecting what normally would be is him, you know, five or six steps behind me. And I turn around and his face is right in front of my face. And I'm like, oh, you're following me. And he's like, yeah, I got it. And I'm like, okay. And then I take a few more steps and again it gets a little harder and I think I'm going to turn around and he's going to be behind and his face again is right in front of my face.

[22:06] KAREN MONROY: Yeah.

[22:07] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: And you Know that even that little moment, I'm like, he couldn't have done that two years ago.

[22:14] KAREN MONROY: No, no.

[22:15] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: So what is that you see in Zachary now that you never thought would happen in your life or you were worried would never happen in your life?

[22:25] KAREN MONROY: You know, I think the dearest dream of mine was to be able to have him have a community, you know, the way us neurotypical individuals find a community. And I got to see that, you know, when we took them to Cape May, I got to see the challenges with them kayaking. And I, you know, I just, I got to see, you know, Zach being one of them, constantly building this confidence that he can go in the world and that it's a good thing for him, that it's this positive experience. And of course, I'm very aware that without the proper level of support, this just wouldn't be possible. So, of course, behind the scenes of all of that is the arduous archetypal syphilis. What's the who the guy who pushes the rock up the hill. Sisyphus. And you know, this, you're always battling the system that helps supply some of the funding for their therapy and for their support, which we, you know, incorporate into the nonprofit and what we're doing. But I. So, you know, sometimes when I'm watching him do these things, I feel very rewarded that I spend no less than 20 hours a week with the state of New Jersey, DDD support coordination, the fiscal intermediary in this what I call epic battle.

[24:07] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: That's what really fighting for the breadcrumbs that your son deserves.

[24:11] KAREN MONROY: Yes, yes. And that all the apprentices deserve, and that you do it for a year and then you have to do it all over again to get their budget, you know, reapproved. And I, you know, so sometimes I see that, sometimes I see that, okay, here's the reward, here's the payoff. You know, sometimes I just have this sense of relief, really, that's almost indescribable that the methodology that I have worked so hard on putting together for 15 plus years, that it actually works, that you engage people in a heart space and you invite them to join you and they say yes to the invitation and then they everyday say yes again, again, again, again, again. You know, it's one of the things I think of where it's like, okay, you, you know, the angels just mess up your bed every single day, so you get to remake it all over again and reaffirm that commitment that you really want this. You know, that you're, you're really doing it. And you know, and so sometimes I'm just so full of gratitude that I have people like you who have said yes to the invitation. And I think a lot of times, you know, there's a mix of relief that, you know, the parental side, so I have like the therapeutic side, I have the administrative business side, I see things through and then I'm a woman of many hats. Yes. And then I have the therapist side or the parent side really that I see things through. And you know, as a parent you just, you can't help but absolutely be worried in a way that is almost unquantifiable. You know, I have two other sons and they got everything they needed when they were growing up and they got to make, have their own agency and make those self determining decisions about, you know, things like where they want to go to school, things they wanted to do in life, you know, what they're doing now. And they've had that possibility of co creating their life. And without this support, you know, that just wouldn't be the case for Zachary. I mean the model, the system, the very dysfunctional broken system that is used not just in our state but in every state, you know, is centered around and the goal is safe, clean, occupied. And I just don't know any human being who gets up in the morning and says today my goal is to be safe and clean and occupied. Like it just doesn't make any sense. So this relief as a parent that what I am now seeing coming up through the future and I think I'm trying to continue to co create on these continuing higher levels is okay, safe, clean, occupied doesn't ever have to be an option for him. He can be in this thrive environment because there are wonderful people like yourself who are going to say yes. And you know, the other individuals we have working with us as therapeutic support individuals, you know, they're in a different category only because they're wonderful people. And who knows, maybe in 10 years I'll be thinking of them as spirit daughters too. But I kind of don't think so, you know, just because of how life goes. But you know, there's this extra layer of trust and intimacy that, you know, we have consciously restructured our family so that it's you and me and Zach and your spirit dad, Ed. And while, you know, we have other, Ed and I have other children and you have other siblings and so on and so forth, you know, they all have lives that are going in different directions and we've just chosen to make this the direction we want to go in our life because it is so rewarding for all of us, and it seems to be. You know, I just want to bring as many people as I can on this journey. You know, I don't.

[28:35] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Yeah.

[28:36] KAREN MONROY: I just don't want this for my son alone, for the other apprentices who are here. You know, I want it for them as well. I want it for their families as well. And, you know, right now I'm thinking, you know, maybe this group home is going to happen in ways that will allow other families to be satellite to the group home. So they're just like, I would like to be with Zach, to have Zach be independent, but yet at the same time, be near enough by that they're not, quote, away, away, they're away. As much as they want to be away, it's their agency that they're choosing to be away. And in order to be successful in that, one of the things that just needs to happen is this bond of trust that we have. And I was thinking about this, too. Like, you were just recently doing some paperwork that obviously involved a lot of trust. Do you. And I was thinking about. Do you ever think about it? Do you ever think about how much you trust me? How much I trust you?

[29:51] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: How I think. The way I think about it, in many ways, is kind of the story you always told to help me understand that. The mistaken zygote.

[30:02] KAREN MONROY: Yeah.

[30:03] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: And how, you know, I was kind of placed in, you know, a biological family place that I really didn't fit into. I never really. It never really made any sense. I. You know, I was always feeling like the out and the kind of person. And, you know, back to when we first met, that first couple of years, I felt that instant connection, and I was like, oh, she understands me. She gets me. She. She knows, you know, who I really am inside and is allowing me to be that person. And I don't. I don't think I think about it in ways that I like. I trust. It's just a feeling. Like, I just know that I can wholeheartedly trust you and Ed and, you know, obviously wholeheartedly trust Zach, even though I'm annoying and all those things that normal sisters would be. But at the end of the day, I know, no matter what happens, like, you guys will be there for me.

[30:59] KAREN MONROY: Yes. Yes, absolutely. That is an amen to that. And I think that's the reciprocal, no matter what happens. And, of course, Ed and I hope to live a long, healthy life. But, you know, no matter what happens, we know you'll be there for Zach, too. And I think what I've really tried to do with this, with ability to work is keep it in that very meaningful. You're going to get as much as you put into this so that everybody who is involved can be trusting that if they allow themselves to be part of this process, it is going to always continue to get better and better for everybody. Right. Not just, not just one person. And so it's this inherent trust in life that's kind of how I've. I've come full circle to see it, which is, you know, this, this pandemic year, the year of, you know, 2020. Right. And it's 2021 right now, and we're still having to deal with the Delta strain and what's going to happen with that. And, and, and there's this crazy insecurity out there. And I, in, in some ways, like, I, I don't want anybody to think that I ever would dismiss the suffering. I mean, my goodness, we just passed yesterday, 600,000 deaths from COVID I mean, that's just. That's incredible.

[32:44] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: It's heartbreaking.

[32:45] KAREN MONROY: It's just, it's heartbreaking for all those families. And yet what I feel like we've been able to do for us is we're so separate from that suffering experience because, you know, again, this level of trust we created with each other and our other apprentices and the families, we all agreed we were not going anywhere. You know, we agreed we were going to have a designated shopper.

[33:12] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: We really cared about each other and formed this nucleus in a way that we were protecting each other.

[33:19] KAREN MONROY: Yes, yes.

[33:20] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: And the other thing I think that we, you know, really realized for the world is that this experience of COVID of being isolated in your house and being cut off from people, it's a really good way to put yourself in the shoes of the differently abled population of this country and how they're.

[33:41] KAREN MONROY: That's their life every day.

[33:42] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Their life every day. They're shut in. They don't have contact with the outside world. There's no inclusion for them to have a community.

[33:50] KAREN MONROY: Meaningful inclusion.

[33:51] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Yeah. And I'm like, so grateful we created this meaningful community inclusion for us because our apprentices didn't need to suffer, don't need to suffer, that kind of thing. But I really implore people to think about what it felt like this past year and realize that these differently abled individuals, those who have autism, you know, downs, any sort of intellectual disability or developmental disability, often feel this way and often feel cut off from the world and are considered in society, in the world. I realize people interact with them thinking that they don't. They don't understand, they don't feel those things. They don't feel like they're not being included. But in reality, all of our work has gone to show that they have emotional depth, that they understand they're not being included. Yeah, they completely. And while they might not have words to be able to communicate that, and that's what they need to learn is, is the concepts and communicating and what those feelings really are, every human being needs a community.

[34:51] KAREN MONROY: Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, as I think about this future and how much trust we were able to have with each other in Covid so that we were able to really still operate. I mean, we made different breakfasts for different hospitals, we created things for different nursing homes, and so we volunteered with.

[35:16] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Our local Meals on Wheels, and we were being safe and delivering meals to the elderly who are also cut off from the world.

[35:22] KAREN MONROY: And, you know, I just. I want to take with us for our future, you know, this continued benefit of our wonderful, insular, trusting, embracing community where we can truly be us and we can all grow together and at the same time recognize for ourselves there's just still more places out in the world we want to keep reaching. Right to. Not. To not stay within, but use the power right of the within to continue to go out and out and out. And, you know, I'm. I'm looking forward to this summer because we have a couple of more trips signed up for the Apprentices, and we're going to be doing some wonderful art in the New York City museums, and we're going to go see the van go immersive. And I just can't wait to share that experience with them. I can't wait to share that experience with you. And, you know, I think, too, it.

[36:34] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Touches other people when they see us out and about and they see how we interact with each other and how we interact with the apprentices. I. I know many times the places we've gone, people have come up to us after words, and they're absolutely blown away. And, you know, being able to create that, plant that seed in people's minds, that community can be created, and, you know, everyone deserves it, and everyone deserves that. That those relationships. And everyone deserves to either choose their family if they're not.

[37:04] KAREN MONROY: Yes. You know, yeah.

[37:06] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: If their family doesn't make any sense, if, you know, they're, you know, create these soul relationships that we call, you know, really connect with the person on the inside. It's not this shallow world operation. It's.

[37:19] KAREN MONROY: You're pleasing me. So I like you.

[37:20] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Yeah. It's really this deep, rather connection of like, I. The human in me sees the human in you, and the human in me loves the human in you.

[37:28] KAREN MONROY: Yes.

[37:29] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: And, you know, being able to spread.

[37:31] KAREN MONROY: That to other people, the Namaste. I think that's a wonderful place for me to say to you how much I appreciate you, how much I love you, how much I adore you, and how grateful I am that, you know, you're just. You're blessing me by being my spirit daughter and I get to choose you.

[37:54] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Yeah. I have to say that, you know, I'm really thankful for.

[38:03] KAREN MONROY: Aw, sweetie.

[38:06] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Well, never in my life did I think I would get to the place I'm at and, you know, never did I think I could achieve all these things and it had not been for you teaching me and, you know, firmly but gently inching me up the pathway of like, come on, get your shit together. Like, you can do this. You want. You want this happiness and you want this joy. And, you know, I would have never known what.

[38:31] KAREN MONROY: Yeah.

[38:34] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: What unconditional love was.

[38:38] KAREN MONROY: Well, I want to thank you for sharing this time with me today and telling the story. And I am just so, so grateful for you. So thank you for being here today and helping us tell the story. And who knows, maybe they'll ask us again in 10 years.

[39:00] ASHLEY HUNSBEDT: Maybe we'll get longer time and we can tell the wild and crazy, crazy stories, things that happened. But if anyone learns anything from our conversation, I hope they learn that every human is deserving of unconditional love.

[39:15] KAREN MONROY: Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen.