Karen Vacaliuc and Michelle Scott-Huffman

Recorded July 28, 2021 Archived July 28, 2021 41:54 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: ddv001022

Description

One Small Step partners, Karen Vacaliuc (53) and Michelle Scott-Huffman (49), talk about their children and their experiences as mothers, their career paths, and their faith.

Subject Log / Time Code

MSH and KV reflect on influences in their lives.
KV talks about her three children and their career paths. MSH talks about her two children, one in college and one about to start college.
KV talks about her path to becoming a doula. She talks about how birth is one of many areas where women can feel empowerment.
MSH on becoming a pastor. She talks about growing up in a family that wasn’t religious but feeling drawn to religion from a young age.
MSH on realizing she was gay and how that impacted her marriage and career. She talks about going back to seminary school.
KV on being raised Catholic, moving away from her faith but ultimately returning to Catholicism in college. She talks about meeting her husband and the experiences he had in coming into his faith.
MSH talks about an "obsession" she once had with Pope Francis and how she hopes to write a book about that someday. KV talks about the book she hopes to write.
KV on her Catholic identity and the importance of seeing others as children of God. She talks about making face masks for people at the start of the pandemic.

Participants

  • Karen Vacaliuc
  • Michelle Scott-Huffman

Partnership Type

Outreach

Initiatives


Transcript

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00:00 Hi, I'm Karen vacaliuc. I am 53 years. Old. Today is Wednesday, July 28th, 2021. I am located in Harriman Tennessee, which is near Knoxville by recording partner is Michelle scott-huffman and I am a one small step partner with her.

00:24 And I am Michelle scott-huffman. I am 49 years old today, as Wednesday, July 28th, 2021, and I'm in Springfield, Missouri. My recording partner is Karen vacaliuc. And we are one small step conversation partners.

00:44 So, one question that I've been thinking of is, what would you would say? Who would you say is your most influential teacher? Either in a traditional setting like a school or a non-traditional setting? And why would you say that they influenced you that way?

01:04 Just a really powerful question for me, because I used to tell this story, when I worked for the teachers union in Missouri about how deeply influential the, the public school teachers in general, were for me. I grew up in a family that I'm not sure sometimes who was Raising me, but we lived right across the street. And I feel fairly certain that it was teachers, who were raising me for the most part, but I think probably the most, influential one would have been in high school. He was my history teacher. He was a horrible teacher, but he was also my basketball coach. And so, he was deeply influential in my life because he really taught me about commitment, and responsibility and accountability, and all those kind of things. And I feel like I might not have learned those things, very well.

02:04 In the spaces that I was in otherwise, so so he held that space for me. When I left school world and spent a little bit of time in the military. I felt like he had. He was former military. I felt like he had prepared me for that life as well. And so just as my life unfolded I continue to see all the ways that he had influenced me over the years. So yeah, how about you keep in contact with them very long?

02:37 I did keep in contact him for with him for quite a while. He actually passed away, just a couple of years ago and I was able to go to his memorial service. Setting have a really great conversation with his wife and his daughter and kind of reconnect with them. So yeah, that's really nice. I would say, you know, I would say that there's definitely one in a traditional setting for me and maybe one in ten of non-traditional studying definitely like to just a traditional setting. It was somebody in middle school and I do think Middle School. Teachers have to have such a, I don't know, a dedication to teaching middle-schoolers because middle schoolers can be. I mean, I look back and I was so smarmy. I was just full of it right eye. I was so I can't even explain.

03:37 How bad I was, you know, but I had this one teacher. Mr. Coggin and mr. Coggin, it was around the time when I don't know Saturday Night Live was doing this little thing about mr. Bill and it was like

03:52 And it was all this like, funny little stuff, right? And so, mr. Coggins, first name was Phil. So we always tease him and say,

04:02 And I mean, he took it no problem, but he taught us so much. He taught us. I just remembered, he would pick things out of like just common, you know, everyday culture TV shows different things. Anyways, he taught us English, and social studies, because that's what they called it back then. And he, he taught us so much. And he shared so much of his life. He, he was in Vietnam. He was an English teacher in Vietnam in the war, just like that to do. Good morning Vietnam, you know, he taught English to people there and he shared his his life there with us and was very open about it. And we we found that interesting fascinating, you know, and I kept in touch with them for many years. He taught all the way through and my kids had him when they were in middle school too. So I thought that was a very, you know, passing the torch kind of thing.

05:02 And he always wanted to know what we were reading in high school. What we were reading in college. Are they keeping up? Are they keeping you educated that kind of thing? So he also instilled in us an absolute love for science fiction. He I mean if he could throw everything else away he would and he would only focus on science fiction. We did short stories. We did books and he will, he just instilled in our class, especially I think I love her science fiction, and the classic science fiction, Isaac Asimov, that kind of thing, Ray Bradbury. And, you know, I just, he did also passed away and I didn't, I didn't know about it till afterwards, but I did send his wife. A love a long letter saying, how much that he is going. I think our whole class, but me, especially

05:59 I say in the non-traditional setting, I have a really good friend named Betsy. And I swear every time I meet with her like I learn something new from her and we have a lot of things in common. We've done, you know, Girl Scouts we've done sewing, we've done all different things theater. And so there's always something new that I was I can like and learn from her and I think that I definitely see her in that sense.

06:30 So I saw in your bio that you are a mother of three grown children and I'm a mother of just recent adults. So 18 and 21 years old. And I'm always looking toward people who have survived longer than me. So I will you tell me about your children and what are they like? So I although my husband would say, yes, they are. Technically adults that they really haven't reached really adulting as they say it, but I have a 20, I got to think she's 25, and she is probably always lost.

07:20 She's always one of those kids who you have to, like. Okay, let's redirect your hero. Okay, we're going this way. You know, she graduated with an associate's and then started doing childcare work. And, you know, she'd never would have thought that somebody would ever call her essential until a pandemic hit. And she was essential, she kind of struggle through the pandemic with her, her co-workers, a lot of her co-workers left and took unemployment. And she did not. And because of that she was kind of given a bonus. She was given three weeks extra pay for that year and she was given three weeks extra vacation. So it'll work. We commend her for sticking to it. She has now decided to become a massage therapist. So she's going to stop at and she starts her certificate program for massage therapy. She really likes people and she really feels that it would be good to work in that field. So,

08:21 So that's our oldest Anna. As she always says as in Princess Anna.

08:30 And then our second one is Gabriel, who is?

08:36 A very good description of him. He's a really smart kid. I mean, I'm not going to, I'm not a mom who brags all the time, but he's pretty smart. One of his chemistry teacher said, you know, your son he's going to he's going to rule the world or he's going to be in jail for trying to rule the world.

08:56 Is it? Okay? Good to know? I hope it's the first. He's working for a company that does work in the healthcare industry and he's doing all of the programming and Tech for it and he's working remotely right now. He could work from anywhere and he's he's living in the southern part of Tennessee and I'm working remotely. His company is in California, but they found, you know, two really appeal to the young people remote, work is a good thing and our youngest is starting College in September at Savannah College of Art and Design in vocal performance. So she's flying The Coop but although she in her mind she's already flown. So but yeah.

09:52 It's good to see it's funny, Mike. My son said at Christmas. He goes. Wow. It's really interesting. We're getting gifts for you. Now that I know you guys make money, you can buy me a gift. So that was actually kind of funny.

10:12 It's funny. I had last year. I bought a pair of Vans tennis shoes. Look a gift card that my daughter had given me and it felt like this fun like reversal of roles that, right. So you have to you said you had a couple of kids. I do. I have two oldest and she is Twenty-One. She's a junior at Drury University, which is here in Springfield. It's a school that's affiliated with the Christian Church Disciples of Christ and the United Church of Christ. Although they would very adamantly point out that that's a historic affiliation, but she wanted to go to a small private school because she gets a significant discount there. And so I said if you want

11:12 Before we lived in Springfield. So we lived a couple hours away. And then I was offered a campus ministry position that brought me here too. And we checked in pretty heavy heavily about that if she was okay with that and she said she was so. So we followed her before she started school, majoring in criminology and political science with a minor in Spanish and she'll be starting her senior year this fall, but she just woke up like two months ago and said, I think I want to be a nurse. There's not a lot in her current programs that translates into a nursing program. So in her final year so that she has those under her belt and can just jump into a nursing program.

12:04 Okay. Well, that's that's her story. And then our youngest is 18 and she's about to start college. Also. She's going to Pittsburg State and Kansas which is just about an hour and a half from us and she's a homebody. So she'll we'll see how that goes. She. We haven't told Missouri state, which is the state school here in Springfield that she's not coming. Just in case I decide what to do with it a hard year, cuz it, I think I thought it was a hard year for my daughter as a senior year.

12:50 And the applications to colleges was. I think I think it was harder. You know, everybody said we're not going to look at test scores. But I mean if they were going to look at them, probably just say it was a little tricky and she wasn't looking at too many places. We were kind of looking mostly in like a geographic Circle of Life. What's an hour and a half to two hours. And you know, we have a program in Missouri called A+ where or if they do they keep their attendance at a certain thing and they have a metal bowl like minimum GPA and do a number of service hours that they can do two hours or two years of Community College. So basically an Associates Degree for free and so we have the school year and so it was hard for her to make that decision because she's always been Frugal and

13:50 Worried about, you know, whether Mom can afford something or not so much applied to scad. You know, that where she's a-goin that was her back up school. And she really thought she would get into my husband's and my alma mater which she did not and it was I think it was very disappointing for her. But I also you know, I told her it's a crazy year. If you know, there's going to be a lot more people applying to different colleges and it was hard. It's hard to see the disappointment in her, but I do think that she's finally accepted, you know the choice she's made. So eager to go. So

14:36 And what's yours and your husband's alma mater Northwestern, which is in Illinois. So yeah.

14:44 I was okay with her if she would go there, but I wanted it to. I'll also wanted her college to be your own experience and not to like us to live nostalgic lie through her kind of thing. You know, she really did love the campus. It's a beautiful campus, but it's a different College than when we went there, you know, so,

15:07 Yeah, it's funny. You say that my daughter. It's funny. What? Younger children's kind of perceptions of what they should do. My ex-husband. The father of my children has two children that are older than them. So they have a brother and sister and their oldest sister had gone to TCU in Fort Worth, Texas Christian University. And that's one of the schools but Alexis looked at and Morgan was real quiet through the whole process, but after she ended up injury Morgan said, oh my goodness. I'm so glad she didn't go to TCU because then I would have had to go there just a little pressure right now. Aren't you? Glad we went to college back when it was cheap, like well still wasn't cheap back then.

16:07 For sure. So, how did you, how did you become a doula? What was that passed before? I was a doula. So I was, I was a bunch of different things. That was a medical, like not a medical transport for a medical biller. So, I build for medical offices for many years. Almost 25 years, and I was also a costume designer for 15 years in there. And I really wanted to retire from both of those, for different reasons and I had read a book. I highly recommend it to anybody. It is an amazing book is called the power of lift and it's by Melinda Gates, who is soon to probably drop that name at some point, but it is called the power of lifting. It talks about, you know, when you want to rock, it lifts up and that it reaches that point where it can get out of the

17:07 Area of the Earth and get into space. If that's the power of lift. She was talking about. So she basically says when you Empower women, you Empower communities and that can empower the world. And so she takes it really is amazing. But I really loved it. It's it's, it's simple, but I think it's great. So she takes any chapter. She takes an issue that we have in our world and that we have in our communities. To not just our world that how can women, and how are women making changes in this? And one of the very first chapters was about birth,

17:48 Birth can be an amazing thing, but it can also be a very scary and a very hard thing to go through. And I said, to myself, while I had three amazing, Birds always midwives. I was built very empowered. I had a doula at two of them. I said, I could make a difference in women's lives and in families lives, if I become a doula. So, I literally put down the book and I started doing my work towards certification.

18:25 And then I told my husband. Oh, by the way, I'm changing. My job becoming a deal. I've had 67 birth now and I, even if I have only have those birth, I say it is been worth it at. I feel like I've helped women Empower their birth and do what they wanted to do with their own story. You know, I don't want somebody else to write their story. I don't want somebody else to make their decisions. I want them to be able to feel that they're doing it. So

18:58 I, I love it.

19:01 That's great. And what does your husband do? He's a computer programmer right now? I can say he's he works. There's a National Lab very near where we live. So it's been there many in the country. But the one here in Tennessee was the one that was instrumental in creating the enriched uranium for the first atomic bomb. I mean, it's not something to be famous for, I guess, but he right now works with drones and he works with drone technology at the lab. But he starts a new job at the same lab in October or he's going to be a manager for the salesian neutron source, and if you don't understand what that is just nod and smile, cuz that's what I do.

19:49 So, yeah, he is. And then hit in his in his spare time. He likes to do radio astronomy. So, if you've ever seen the movie contact, with those big dishes, and they like point to space, and they're listening for aliens. That's what he likes to do in his part-time spare time. So yeah, he's a, he's a bit of a geek and so what brought you into becoming a pastor?

20:21 I guess the short answer is God.

20:27 Which part of my Ministry is with the Unitarian Universalist Church so that the answer doesn't work for them. So yeah, I grew up in a family that was not at all religious. So as to demonstrate that point, like all of our family reunions happen at 11:30 on Sunday morning, and then when I get there, an hour and a half late there always like where were you?

20:57 When we were going to have you pray, but you weren't here because I was there in French.

21:11 Like I said, I'm the youngest of five kids and they're all enough older than me that they were going to do in their own thing. And I feel like as a kid, I was probably looking for connection and just spaces that felt really structured and and go to that way. And so I think it probably, when I was like 7 years old, I was walking to church by myself in a really small town and, you know, it was 1970, something so those things seem safe. And so I would walk to the church and I went there for several years and then we had some neighbors move in that went to a church. That was a little further away and I started going with them. And there was just something that kept sort of drawing me back to church when I was ordained and I Was preparing to serve communion at my ordination. I was remembering that as a child. I would play communion with my friends.

22:11 I grew up in a Baptist Church. So I'm sorry. I was in my late twenties at the church that I grew up at helping with the youth program. You're taking them to amusement parks and doing those kinds of things with them. And just really sensed that there was, there was a vocation there. That was kind of calling me to something that I couldn't really understand. And that was a very long process, right? I'm a woman in the southern baptist church and I go to my pastor and say so I am pretty sure I'm called to Ministry and he thought that was pretty funny and he said, God call women in Ministry. And so incredible thing about it was though that like that at church had prepared me for that. Very moment. Like we had done this really intense Bible study a couple years before.

23:11 Where they were essentially. Like, you're going to come to a point where you have this kind of fundamental crisis of belief and all of the embedded ideas and belief systems that you relied on up to that point. All of the sudden won't work. And you have to like shut out all the other voices and wrestle it out with God and so I did. And so I just said, okay. So this is the thing that I made called to and that means I have to leave this place. And so I went from there into the Assemblies of God, because I knew that they are dating women and had for a long time and that's felt like a place where I could do what I was being called to. I spent about five years there. And in that process, I was halfway through my, my Seminary, my Master's Degree. When I came to the realization that I was also gay.

24:00 And we were married at the time. I was training path. We were both in that Cemetery. When we split up. He he abandoned it pretty quickly. I think it was kind of a thing that it just we were doing together and individually that doesn't really make sense to him. And I also sort of tried to abandon it because I struggled through this about myself that I kind of need to figure out. And so there was about a year. Of my life where I was doing a lot of that figuring out and came to the end of it and understood this to be sorta integrally and fundamentally who I was as a person and that I couldn't do ministry outside of that kind of authenticity and understanding of mine.

25:00 I'm sorry. I tried to just walk away. So and God terms I would say like God sorry. There's a fly are or if you're calling or the universe or whatever it is. Like if you're called to a thing you don't just get to walk away. At least not very comfortably. And so I, you know, if Eaton Cemetery in St Louis, which is an open and affirming Seminary and it just started to discover this whole world experience of religion and church and Christianity that I had never even known existed was a little bit like walking into my skin.

25:48 I did I took my transcript, I was all proud of it. So I have the cemetery that I was in Regent University School of divinity, which is Pat Robertson's inseminate. Her with my transcript and I was like, I successfully argued that are they should give me equivalent credit for it, which is actually not true at all. I learned pastoral care in one place was very different than past but I got those three hours over. But the rest were all elective credits is full program all over again. And I'm glad I did find. Did you find out the new Seminary? That the classes? I mean, what did you find different about them?

26:48 Different approaches difference.

26:53 What ya. So so everything was different but fundamentally the kind of lens with which you do the particularly in biblical studies at Eaton Cemetery. You're not coming at the text as this kind of Monolithic like God wrote it through the hand of a human literal interpretation kind of thing. And there's much more learning about historical-critical context and in all of these kinds of different understandings of of the text. And so it's def. It's definitely like this a fundamental shift in the way that you understand the biblical texts and also church history. Like honestly it was through that experience of having SO2 required to report to history classes in one place and then to require church history classes in another place that I fell in love with her.

27:53 History and became such a church Deacon that I'm just sort of obsessed with the systems and the structures and the institutions and and the ways that we humans, keep messing them up, but somehow there's something that keeps it moving along and

28:12 When you say church history, do you mean search history from a Protestant perspective or church history from Jesus Through the early church through? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So that was kind of the path. Is there. A religious or spiritual path that you been on? So I pretty much grew up Catholic and I say, I walked away from it in high school for a while. I did not get confirmed, and my mother said, fine, whatever. I'm sure you'll get confirm some and then in high school, I was actually hired by another church to sing because I had a pretty good singing voice. So I was going to a Congregational Church in high school just because

29:12 Made me do and it was very different cuz obviously, it's not the same liturgy. It's very different liturgically. So I had to get kind of get used to that, and then in college, I think this is what happened in colleges there were so many people. I went to a Midwestern College surrounded by, I'd say a lot of friends in Presbyterians, and I think that the only thing that I felt safe with was being Catholic again, because that's the thing I knew. So I was like, I was like, well, I'm going to be Catholic and you can, then everybody would say, oh you're not don't be Catholic and that's going to ruin your face, you know, and so they say stuff like that and be like, well that made me want to cling on to it even more to prove to them that I couldn't I couldn't be Catholic and, you know, and and everything. So I got confirmed in college and

30:12 We my husband and I met in a Christian group in college is called intervarsity. Christian Fellowship. I'm not sure if you know that so we met through that. He he is a very interesting story and I mean he could tell it to you and take three hours, but he had this crazy experience between his freshman and sophomore year in college, where he he was he was a little bit of a, a recreational drug user. Anyway, he had this experience or trip in which he felt that Mary Mother Mary was calling to him. And he had all these different experiences and he said he came out of that. Feeling that a

31:00 He should become Christian and end in B. Hell would mean he'd have to pick up all the cigarette butts and

31:10 Nnn see that that Mary was calling him to something. Right? So he went to college that year and he was at the airport and he there was this Salvation Army table with giving out tracks. And one of them said, give up your way. Give up your your, your bad way. They turn over to God, he goes. Okay, just like that. And so he went to college and then he joins this intervarsity. Christian Fellowship. We met and and a friend of his, you know, on the on the same floor, gave him a Bible which he read in one weekend. Just going to say that though speed-reading there.

31:56 But you know and then when we met, he wasn't anything. In fact before he read the Bible, the only thing he knew about Jesus was that he walked on water and that he was tempted by the devil. He doing nothing else about you. Nothing. And so he ended up becoming Catholic, as well. And it's so funny because when people find out that he wasn't anything before and that he had this whole past before they're like, but you're so cancel it. I can't believe it, but we recently moved and so we changed churches. So that's been a big change in our lives.

32:41 But yet it's the same liturgy, we feel it's a very comforting thing. You know, it's it's, it's one thing that you can say. I'm I mean, I could go to a Catholic Church in

32:52 Spain. I might not understand it but it's the same liturgy. So it's a very comforting kind of thing. He really likes the new pastor at the church, right? Because the pet before he became a priest he was a computer programmer so they can talk shop to write books and the flyest hitting my head. I hope to write books and Lenox in Atlanta. So I'd been in the space for like 4 days with all this preaching and talking about preaching at all, these church people and I was driving home and I was listening to a book by Richard. Rohr. I can't remember what it was called, but it was the one that talks a lot about Francis, St. Francis.

33:52 And then I became like obsessed with Pope Francis for a while. And so I've decided that one of the books that I'm going to write some day is going to be called poke crush with the subtitle of the mainline Protestant church still in love with the leader of the Roman Catholic Church in why? That's a good thing. So, I love it. I absolutely. I'll admit I've always wanted to write a book to and it's based on this one line in the church, in the, in the Liturgy. In the, the service that says Lord. I am not worthy to receive you but only say the word and my soul shall be healed. So I've always wanted to as it's my favorite like favor prayer in the whole liturgy, right? And but I wanted to write the book called lord. I am not worthy and I think I have a title at least so I don't have anything else but

34:52 That's great. I will, but I also believe that the the Roman Catholic church has the greatest like a social teaching that there is an, so I greatly appreciate that. And it's funny how so I grew up. Like I said Baptist and there's this real particularly in like Mid-Missouri that's real kind of anti-catholic sentiment. So the strangest thing is like being a kid and having like, some Catholic friends in school and and hearing that preacher. We didn't even call him Pastor. He really was preacher. That's what he did. And then

35:35 Pastoral care of the harder. They even suggest that your Catholic friends are like, going to hell, right? Like this, but it seems so bizarre to me right now, that I can't even fathom it. But I was preaching at church. And in the service, I was talking about how our, how communion as we know it today, you know, it developed through the years, you know, certainly in the Roman Catholic church and that we adopted some of those practices transubstantiation thing and all that. Like, their conversations around that much in the same sermon. I spoke about and quoted the Dalai Lama and after the death of woman came up to me and I think she literally called me the Antichrist. And and it was because I had talked about a connection with the Roman Catholic Church.

36:35 Did you hear me quotes of Dalai Lama? Yeah, I'm in a live in Tennessee. In Tennessee. Is probably, I think 49th out of the 50 states in the percentage of Catholics here. Where is small? So I can go down like the road Country Roads around here. And there are probably twenty Baptist churches within 5 minutes of me 20 or something like that. You know, there's a lot of Primitive Baptist churches around here too so I can find a lot of Baptist Churches, but I have to go half an hour to find at the church.

37:21 So, I'm wondering how that you're Catholic identity. How do you connect that with like the, the state of the world right now? And, and what do you feel like? It kind of calls you two out of that identity.

37:42 Well.

37:44 Starting to say, I mean definitely you're right. The social teachings are important and seeing everybody as a child of God, is a very important thing and I think that it's it would be hard to

38:04 I don't know. You definitely need to look at people in a different lens, and I don't know if that's my Catholic teaching, but I suppose it is about looking at each other and add. The basic thing. We are all children of God. We are all called to personal Holiness. We are all called to do what we can for our brothers and sisters, and our brothers and sisters are not just the ones that were the same who have the same father and mother is us, you know, our brothers and sisters in need are our Brothers and Sisters in Christ, whether we get along with them or not. Whether we

38:47 You know.

38:49 Feel the same way about things or not. We are called to reach out to them and to serve them, you know, and I think that the pandemic, I mean I think has I hope has brought this awareness to more people.

39:06 When the pandemic started, I was in the middle of certifying to be kandula, which was kind of hard because, you know, things were closing down, hospitals are closing down, and I tived it with a lot of other people and made face mask. So, I made a ton of face mask and I it's it's it's definitely the numbers over 4,000. But I don't know the exact number. So yeah, and and that was one, I tell you. So, you know, it was one, small thing that I could do every day Focus, get the job done and mail them out to people, you know, and there and then some people like. But you don't know where they're going to, I don't care who they're going to, they're going to somebody who will use it and maybe save their lives right now.

39:56 Thank you for that. I'm in the, the epicenter of the Delta bury it right now in Southwest Missouri, so and I'm so thankful for all the people. We had a big interface effort here, if people making masks who were Jewish and Muslim and Christian and, you know, atheist and you you and it was just a really beautiful effort. And I was amazed, by the way that people could just hit the ground running with something that was so practical and so meaningful at the same time.

40:31 I I met a lot of people doing it, you know? And it first. I I met some adversity from people saying why are you wasting your time? Nobody's going to end up wearing a mask then like, well, you know, we'll see about that.

40:48 And I honestly, I still wear my mask almost everywhere, even though I fully vaccinated, I still strongly believe in The Masks. So

41:01 Yeah, so thank you for making masks. Thank you for taking the time to share when people share their the kind of their journey to where they are and in their face, and in their vocation as our life, I just feel sort of deeply blessed to be honored, to take care of, that story with them. So thank you for sharing your story with me. And thank you. Also, for sharing this with me and getting to know a little bit about you and your family and I wish you all the best in the near future and yellow, be an empty nester soon. So don't try to read, you know, organized the rooms right away.

41:48 Good advice. Thanks.