Kathleen Knoth and Kerry Callegari

[00:01] KATHLEEN KNOTH: Hi, my name is Kathleen Knoth. I am 65 years old. Today is March 18, 2023, and we are in Taos, New Mexico. And I am here with my sister, Carrie Lynn Callegari Again, she is my big sister.

[00:19] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: And I am Carrie Lynn Callegari and 67 years old, Kathleen's big sister. And it is March 18, 2023. We are in Taos, New Mexico, a beautiful area. My partner here is my younger sister, Kathleen Knoth. And.

[00:42] KATHLEEN KNOTH: Well, we're here today just to chat back and forth a little bit about the University of New Mexico Taos branch library. This was something that's kind of my baby. This is Kathleen again speaking, and my last name is Knoth. And I always joke and say, pronounce the k and rhymes with both. Knoth. It's a tough word to look at. So I just want to talk a little bit about UNM Taos library. Some of the history again, it's kind of my baby. I started this library in 1995. We started offering higher education courses here in Taos around 1993. And then a couple years later, I had already completed my master's in library science in California. And I had fallen in love with Taos and moved here after I completed my degree. And I was, as most taosenos here, we worked many jobs in order to be blessed with being able to live here. And so I was doing everything from working in bookstores to babysitting to helping lay Saltillo tiles, doing hard labor just because I wanted to stay here in this town. Eventually, in 1995, they started to look for an academic librarian that could start a library for the college courses here. And so they gave me one room, one desk, one bookshelf, and one computer and said, see if you can get us going with an academic library. So that's how I started the library here at UNM Taos in 1995. At the time, we shared a space here, downtown Taos, about two blocks north of the main plaza area. And we were sharing space with La Plaza telecommunity. And that was actually the first organization that brought the Internet to Taos. And so we shared space with them and they provide the Internet for our students. So that was when I first started getting people familiar with how you actually do research and write your papers on a computer. So again, this was a big deal for me to get a professional job here in this little town that I had fallen in love with. I was wondering, Carrie do you remember where you were around that time in 1995?

[03:05] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: Yes, in 1995. We were living in central New York, as we still are. And Jason, my son, was ten years old, and Aaron, my older daughter, was 13. So it was a very busy time because I was working full time as a social worker and doing all the kids stuff and family stuff, traveling with sports and all that stuff. So it was a busy time.

[03:32] KATHLEEN KNOTH: We were on two different sides of the world and involved in two different things. But the thing I like about our family is I have difficulty sometimes when I talk to people and they say, oh, I haven't talked to my brother in years or something. And it's like, I don't know what I would do without my family. We have an older brother. He's actually seven years older than me, named Bob, Rob, Robbie. And so we come from all different. We come from the same family, the same upbringing, same parents, and yet the three of us are completely different. And yet I always wanted to study this in psychology or something, how the fact that the three of us can be so different, even though we came from the same upbringing, same family, and even though we are so different, we're still very close. And so I feel very blessed about that.

[04:23] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: As do I.

[04:24] KATHLEEN KNOTH: Yes. I had gotten my master's in library science in 1989 in the Bay Area, San Francisco Bay Area. My master's actually from San Jose State. We are. I guess the buzzword nowadays is first gen students. And that's something that I deal with a lot nowadays at the University of New Mexico Taos branch, because we're up in northern New Mexico, a lot of our students are first gen and non traditional. And so Carrie was. We are first gen students, and Carrie was actually the first gen of our generation to go to school. So I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about that.

[05:04] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: Well, that was. That was kind of a big deal in our family because my father was pretty. We called him Papa. He was pretty old school, and he really didn't see any reason why girls needed to go to college. You know, you could be a secretary or work in a store, and that would be fine. That's it. That's what.

[05:22] KATHLEEN KNOTH: Or stay home and be a mom.

[05:24] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: Stay home and be a mom was the big one. Yes. Yeah. But, I mean, I wasn't ready for that yet. But that was not something that he really supported. My mother, who didn't go to college, but was. I always felt she was extremely bright because she was a voracious reader, which is maybe the influence that Kathleen had to go into library science, perhaps. But she wholly supported me in going. She really, really was excited for me and enthusiastic about me going. And I think once I got there, I just absolutely loved being on a college campus with everything, all the opportunities that were there, all the academic and social and athletic and music and spiritual at the Newman center. I just loved it. And my poor mama really wanted me to go, but I know she really missed me because she wrote to me every day.

[06:20] KATHLEEN KNOTH: Those are good memories. Yeah. And that was really helpful to me, too, because, again, I didn't know anything about college. It wasn't something that was, you know, honor, vocabulary, or spoken about at dinner every night. So once my big sister Carrie, we joke that she's my big sister because she's two years older than me, but she might even be an inch or two shorter than me. And we're short enough as it is. I don't think I ever hit five foot. So I guess today we would call it vertically challenged. But that's why we joke she's my big sister. But, yeah, I remember I was probably, like a junior in high school, junior senior in high school, and I got to go upstate New York and see my big sister at college, and that was my first taste of it. And, you know, again, I'm blessed that my sister welcomed me to be, you know, come to her college and meet all her friends. So it was a real big, real big influence on me. And I think that's, you know, working at UNM Taos, we have an initiative right now called the caring campus. And it's interesting that it has to be considered an initiative because, you know, the way we were raised by our parents, where I think it's built into us to be caring. And so that's kind of with the first gen students at UNM Taos, I feel like I can relate to them, and they can come to me comfortably. So I feel like that's a big part of my life at the community college here at UNM Taos.

[07:55] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: And thank goodness, if I can just jump in, that we have state universities and state systems, because I couldn't have afforded to go to any other private college. I didn't. Neither one of us got any financial help from our. From our parents. Not because they were mean. It was just. That's how it was. And so we both worked a lot of jobs to get ourselves through college, but the state system was the place for us to get our education, and it was. It was a very good education.

[08:26] KATHLEEN KNOTH: Took us a long way again. I started the library down here in downtown Taos in 1995. We pretty much stayed down here, just kind of kept moving into different rooms to enlarge the classroom as the school enlarged. We're actually in a very beautiful building in here, downtown Taos. It's one of the older buildings that still had some of the hand hewn vigas and woodwork, I believe, from the WPA era. We had these long, narrow classrooms with glass fronts. And I found out later that it was actually used for garages, for forest service trucks. And so when you're in a place like rural northern New Mexico, you make do with whatever you have. But it was exciting that we were bringing higher education to this small community. Eventually, in 2003, we did become a full fledged branch of the University of New Mexico. It was not without a few years of proving ourselves. That was really interesting for me, too, because I was beginning to really feel like a professional. We were having to testify in front of the commission on higher education. Really what was happening was the university in New Mexico thought that we would be taking away a piece of their pie. But they eventually realized that we were feeders to the university because the folks we were getting into college courses here in northern New Mexico probably would have never gone down to Albuquerque and started college. So we became a feeder college. And that, again, in itself was rewarding. Again, talked a little bit about Carrie and I being first gen students. Some of my favorite memories was going to. I think that was back in. What years were you at? This was Brockport.

[10:23] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: Yes. SUNY Brockport, 1974 through 78.

[10:29] KATHLEEN KNOTH: I remember visiting a few times with mom and pope. Those were interesting times. But then I felt like a big girl. And I got to drive up myself, I guess, during my senior year, going up in my old Chevy station wagon. And again, I can relate a lot to some of our first gen students here at UNM Taos. Now, I actually didn't go to college until I was 25 years old, even though Carrie was a big influence on me in my latter years of high school. And I felt. Started to feel what college life was like. I was kind of this free spirit that felt like I still needed to go find myself before I went to college. So I wound up driving across the country with my doggie Chester, and kind of was going across the country, finding myself. And I wound up with some relatives clear across the country in the San Francisco Bay Area. And I started worked there for a little while. And that's when I discovered, again, like Carrie was pointing out, you know, our state schools, our community colleges are really big stepping stones for people who wouldn't normally take that path. I taught for a while also, as well as being the library director at UNM Taoshe. I was also a teacher for what we call now FIACs, first year experience or courses to get people comfortable with the university life. And I would do something called an educational roadmap. And I kind of, Carrie and I were talking about that, too. We've had two entirely different roadmaps. But she wound up as a social worker. I wound up as a librarian. And I see that both as going on the same path of being helpers. And I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about that.

[12:21] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: When I went to college, I had no idea what direction I was going to go or what major I wanted to pursue. And when I was in one of my core psychology classes, I started learning a little bit more about helping professions. And I kind of zeroed in on social work and ended up receiving my bachelor of social work and then going on to receive my master's in social work. I stayed home after that for about eight years, nine years, until both of my children got into kindergarten. So I was, that was a blessing that I could stay home with them in that very important time. And my husband, luckily, had some very good jobs, and I was able to stay home with them. I got antsy sometimes and wanted to get back to work, but the time did go fairly quickly, and, and then I was so lucky to get into the school system so that for 25 years, I was working in the school system, and I had the school schedule so I could be home when my, when my kids were off from school. Absolutely loved my job till the day I retired. And, yeah, that's another helping profession. And it was extremely rewarding. It was very challenging, also, but it was extremely rewarding. I worked with kindergarten most of the time, kindergarten through third graders, and I just love that age group. So worked with them and teachers and parents, and it was a, it was just a wonderful, wonderful career. So I was lucky that that path worked out for me.

[13:59] KATHLEEN KNOTH: And again, this was another thing where I would go back to New York and visit, and I would be able to go into the elementary schools and see where Carrie was working and sit in on some of her. I think that one of that one, one of the ones I thought was kind of fun was called banana splits. And I think that was for children.

[14:17] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: Whose parents were separated or divorced or one of them had died. After that, I changed it to changes and challenges, and it kind of broadened the scope of children who could join the group and gain some support and some coping skills.

[14:35] KATHLEEN KNOTH: And I think, again, kind of keeping this whole theme of education, you know, Carrie talked a little bit about when she was in college and not really knowing what direction she was going at the time. Some of her psychology professors, I think, were kind of influential, and I can say the same for myself. And I just like to bring this up because I think its important for college students to have some sort of mentor or influence somewhere along the way. I had gotten my bachelor's in journalism from San Francisco State University. Eventually when I started getting into the whole college scene. And once I got out into the journalism world, it wasn't exactly what I thought it was going to be. So I was very glad that I had a mentor who saw in me my passions, my skills, and suggested that I go to library school and use those abilities to become a librarian. So Janet Hildebrand, I'll never forget her, but she was my mentor up in East Bay, in the San Francisco Bay Area. So again, I just wanted to point out the fact that it's really helpful to have family backing you up and supporting you and having someone along the way, especially. Again, a lot of our college students here in northern New Mexico are either first gen or a lot of non traditional, what we call non traditional, where they either took a couple classes right out of high school and then they had to stop out for take care of their parents or an illness or didn't have the money. So they're now coming back. Or we have people coming, you know, in at 50, 60 years old, just learning how to use a computer. So every day is interesting at work because you never know. I have students that can do dances around me as far as technology goes. And then I have students who don't even know how to use the mouse. Every day is a wonderful challenge. I just, people keep asking me, when are you going to retire? When are you going to retire? And I'm like, why should I retire when my job is so rewarding? And I love it?

[16:40] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: But I think one of the points that you're making as well that's important is there are, it's okay to zig and zag. There's no one direction where you get out of high school and you go to four years of college and you go work in that field for 50 years. Everybody has their own way of doing things, their own timeline, their own path that you discover along the way. And so I think, I think it's important to support whatever direction people decide to go.

[17:10] KATHLEEN KNOTH: And again, I just kind of want to sum up some of my work here as the UNM Taos librarian. Again, like I said, it's been very rewarding, obviously, very challenging. I always say life is a roller coaster. It has its ups and its downs. And so there have been moments where I would go home crying, and some of them would be from stress, and some of them would be from joy. And so over the years, again, this has been my baby. I started the library in 1995, and here we are in 2023. We actually, I moved probably, I think, four times in various different, you know, situations that they would give me and tell me and make this into a library. And so I always kind of. We always say, bend like a willow. And so we always have to be adaptable and flexible, but the bottom line is always to serve the students. And so that's what the focus has always been over the years, I've been recognized in various ways. In 2003, from the New Mexico State Library, I was given the community Achievement Award. I. Part of that is because we have a library bond every couple years, and I'm able to get out into the community, and Taos has always been one of the highest approval rates for our library bonds in the state. Part of that is my work, and part of that is just that. Again, I'm blessed to be in a community that cares about education and literacy. In 2007, I was actually the president of the statewide. It's called NEM Cal, New Mexico Consortium of Academic Libraries, which is all the academic library directors around the state. So that was really a big deal for me that they voted me in as the president of NEM Cal. I've since been very involved, and I'm currently their treasurer and on their legislative committee. In 2017, I was again voted statewide as the academic librarian of the year. So my hard work has been stressful at times, but again, very rewarding. And it's nice to be recognized by your peers and by the rest of the folks in the state. I do want to say that I think, and maybe, and I was trying to remember, Carrie, if I had, I must have gone to your college graduation. But one of my favorite days here in my job at UNM Taos is graduation in May, again, especially because it's such a big deal for the students here in UNM in Taos, because a lot of them are non traditional and first gen. So we've actually outgrown any venue in Taos because we have so many people coming to support their college graduates. It's just. I'm going to start crying. It's just unbelievable day each year, and it's a very special day also because it may be a little different than your average graduation across the country, you know, we have Taos Pueblo come out and they do a drum group, and we get a special blessing from the pueblo. The National Guard comes out, one of the students sings the national anthem. And again, it's just, I just, I'm beside myself as these students that I've watched come through are now walking across the stage.

[20:39] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: It's just incredibly rewarding, such a special celebration time. A lot to celebrate because they've worked hard to get there.

[20:46] KATHLEEN KNOTH: Yeah. Like Carrie and I, a lot of these students have to work while they're going to school and, you know, take care of family. But again, now it's to the point where I'm almost like a celebrity in town. It's really silly cause I can't even walk through the grocery store without seeing a student. Recently, I felt like this car was kind of following me through a parking lot. And I didn't know if someone was stalking me or what was happening. And all of a sudden they pulled up and rolled up their window and went, Kathleen, I got my master's degree because of you. Thank you. Thank you. And so it's like, you know, it really is interesting to see. And also because I've been there for 27 years, which is crazy to think about, I have college students now coming in who are the children of college students that I had worked with years ago. And so it's become generational now. And you can see that we're on.

[21:46] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: A good cycle and the fruits of your labor.

[21:50] KATHLEEN KNOTH: So I don't know. Carrie do you have anything else you kind of wanted to share with us about your experiences or. I know, for one thing, and we've been talking a little bit about this recently also is talking about the cycle. One of the things with Carrie and her husband Brian is they're very supportive of their children going to college. And now they're also starting accounts for their grandchildren. And so education has become very important in our family.

[22:22] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: What I have seen through the years, as we talked about, you know, not being really supported by our father and not thinking that girls really needed to go to college. That was that generation then, our generation. Well, we, you know, we all tried to, most of the friends I have gone to college and had careers. And of course, when we are raising our daughters, we're saying you can do anything. You can, you know, you can be in the military. You can, you can be president of a company. You can, you know, go for it. And so we really encourage our daughters to pursue higher education and careers. And so now it's interesting to kind of look at those three generations for me personally, because it's not so easy for them to have these great big demanding jobs and raising a family. And so there's always pros and cons and trade offs. But I find that interesting to kind of sit back and look at the changes for the generations, some good, some more difficult, you know. But, yeah, we love to support those who are pursuing education in any way.

[23:35] KATHLEEN KNOTH: And I think maybe to kind of start to wrap up a little bit again, kind of looking at it holistically, we haven't talked that much about our older brother Rob, but again, we were all brought up in the same way, but we all took different paths. And I'm not saying that one was better than the other. I have a lot of respect for my older brother Rob. He tried college and God bless him for trying, but it wasn't him. And he made that decision. And he eventually worked in a really good job and eventually became a partner in that job and raised a wonderful family. And so I think the three of us are kind of really reflect our parents. My father had an incredible work ethic, and I think the three of us took after that. And again, like Carrie was saying, my mother was very literate. I mean, it was really silly because I would never read a book. I was always outside or playing sports or something. And here I am, a librarian now. So you just never know what influences they're going to be on your life.

[24:39] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: And our mother died when she was 50. We were young. I was in my final semester of college, which was extremely, extremely difficult, the most difficult time of my life. But, you know, all these years later, now being 67, I think she still every day influences Kathleen's and my life in so many ways. So, you know, if we were to be asked the old question of who's been the biggest influence on your life? I know I would say my mother. She probably would, too, all those years, but, yeah, she's been the biggest influence on me.

[25:18] KATHLEEN KNOTH: Yeah, for a while there, there were people wearing these bracelets. WwJd what would Jesus do? And I was going to make my own bracelet. Wwmd what would Mama do? So, yeah, I think I. That is what I wanted to share today as far as our story and the story of the University of New Mexico Taos library. Again, the library started in 1995, and in last year, 2022, we finally moved into the most exquisite, beautiful building. We have a real live library now. So I'm very excited. I feel like we pretty much came full circle.

[26:03] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: And I want to say that I am so honored and thrilled to be here. I never would have imagined when Kathleen called me a week ago and she texted me earlier in the day and said, give me a call later, I have something to run past you, I thought she was going to be saying, well, which trail do you want to walk on when you visit? And all of a sudden, she was talking about StoryCorps, which I was very familiar with because we listen to NPR a lot, and I could not even believe we were going to be on Storycorps together. So this is the thrill of a lifetime and a chance for me to say how proud I am as the big sis of all the work that she's done at the library and what she has built that into heart and soul all those years, affected, influence positively so many people that she's going to leave a legacy behind. And it's really, really just wonderful. Really, really wonderful. I'm very proud of you.

[27:03] KATHLEEN KNOTH: Thank you, Carrie. I love you.

[27:05] CARRIE LYNN CALLEGARI: I love you, too.