Kelli Dickerson and Carol Hilborn

Recorded September 13, 2021 Archived September 13, 2021 56:35 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: hub000401


One Small Step conversation partners Kelli Dickerson (45) and Carol Hilborn (65) met virtually to discuss the growing political divide and their shared hope that people can find common ground. They both discuss their connection to Mississippi, parenthood and how communicating with those around you can lead to change.

Subject Log / Time Code

Carol asks Kelli what she considers to be a reasonable person
Carol asks about Kelli's disability and how that has shaped her worldview
Carol talks about her mission trip to Mississippi and the racial division she saw
Kelli talks about growing up in Mississippi
Carol asks how Kelli's parents have influenced her parenting.
Kelli talks about how she votes
Carol talks about registering to vote in Oklahoma


  • Kelli Dickerson
  • Carol Hilborn

Venue / Recording Kit


Partnership Type




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00:03 Is September 13th 2021? I'm having a virtual conversation with my partner. Carol. I am in Oklahoma City. Carol is my one small step partner.

00:20 In my name is Carol hilborn and today's and I'm 65 years old today, to fix the Oklahoma. Just outside of Tulsa.

00:34 My partner partner is kauppi and she is. I think it'll be a new friend. Yes.

00:45 Okay, Carol. I'm going to put the first question for you. Ask Kelly.

00:57 I am.

00:59 Very much concerned for how we move forward as a society. I worry that the Divide between us will be more important than the bond that keep us together. I genuinely believe that we need to learn to listen to each other and respect each other's opinion. We also need to learn to respect a shared space when we are all together. And the way you do that is is to allow people enough room to be themselves and I would like to facilitate that as much as possible.

01:36 And Carol, what was it that made you want to have this conversation today?

01:42 I found it when I talked to Kate Lee a while back. We we talked. And she said, I have this new project. I wonder if you might be interested and it just, it just really piqued my curiosity. How cool it would be to to talk to somebody that is, is a new person and somebody that believes different things. Although, I must say that I talk to people that believe different things from me all the time. So, it's not something that just really fast.

02:23 I agree, completely.

02:29 Carol, I put Kelly's bio in there. So what you'll do with it with this is you'll read it like exactly how it's written. So in first person and then you lost, many follow-ups. You have about it and it should be the first time you guys are seeing each others by us. But the Bayou time, I'm a 45 year old kind intelligent engaged. Single disabled mother to a toddler. My personal attendants are rationality Justice and humor. I generally genuinely believe our greatest. Hope is compromise amongst people people. We don't have to like, what the other one has to say, but we are better off as a society to learn to respect in the effort. It takes to empathize with someone who disagrees with you is energy well-spent. However, we can't forget the end. She wants. The conversation is over.

03:20 So my first question because I'm a retired teacher is kudos to you for a toddler.

03:31 Thank you, I think.

03:43 My question to you is what what, what do you consider a reasonable person?

03:49 I think a reasonable person is someone who considers their own needs and considers the needs of those around them and they weigh the positives and negatives and they affect in effect follow. What? What makes more sense? If it's something that I want, but it's going to cause you harm. Then, to me, that's unreasonable. But if it's something that I need and you need something else, and if my needs won't negatively impact your needs, then I should have just fair game to have my needs. I think it's unreasonable when somebody prioritizes themself over everybody else around them. If if that answers your question a little better.

04:40 Forget to ask another question.

04:48 Personal. But no, go right ahead.

04:52 Disability, I don't know what that is. How do you think that affects? How you, how you see other people?

05:02 My disability is a spinal deformity. I have a 46 degree Bend to my spine and a 36 degree Bend. I also have brain lesions, which have been called multiple sclerosis and then undiagnosed in the diagnosis and then

05:19 We just know their brain lesions and it causes some cognitive function ality issues with me sometimes. And then of course, my Mobility can can be a little comical with the, with the bends in the spine. But as far is the vantage point, that it gives me,

05:40 It gives me a vantage point. That's a different for myself. It's pushed me to become much more compassionate with myself. It has pushed me to be even more aware of the people around me. And what their needs are. It is also giving me an opportunity to see how people respond when they think that you're invisible.

06:04 Yeah.

06:06 Yeah, it is that is that answers your questions? And I can elaborate more like I have a good friend that I've known her for quite a long time now. And it's been an interesting interesting for me to watch how she responds to things and how exactly how people respond to her and what people think of her because she's just aren't the same as I am. But, you know, I watched her she's exactly the same as she is so much smarter is in so many ways and it's just it's just it's it's been just a fascinating and I love it. I love that that she's my friends and I love that we can do things together. So, well, I can I can tell you one thing. Is that as somebody who has a physical or cognitive hindrance?

07:05 Somebody is willing to be patient with me and they use their time to be patient with me. I'm very grateful for that. And I suspect that your friend also appreciates you looking through what other people get. They just stopped. They see one thing, they stop and it does take a little more patience when your friend has particular needs, but I hope I hope I'm worth it. And it certainly sounds like your friend is right by the most interesting issue with her. At one point was required to the part about how I wanted something, and I did it with color and stuff. And she says, I don't know what color is a different way to convey things to her, which made it which way is hard, but I have to say,

08:01 I work with you. I worked with younger people and so technology. Sometimes drove me crazy. And I, you know, I would just say, forget this. I just I need to call. I need to call John. He will help me because I so appreciate it. His understanding. It's okay. I'm not going to roll my eyes at you. I will help you.

08:24 I got it. I think we all have some issue at some point in time. So yes, we do what you have solutely do. That is part of the human condition. Exactly. Tell me about your toddler. Okay. She is, of course. This is my opinion. I might be a little biased towards her, but she's amazing. She's three and a half years old, and she is kind. And she is patient, and she's thoughtful, she's funny. Oh my goodness. She started showing a sense of humor before she was 2 years old. She's she's insightful.

09:15 She's a rock. I mean, she's just a really neat human. She is my lovely little human and I'm just impressed with her and I appreciate the fact that she's very patient with me like when she was born. She knew I have an older mom. So I'm going to have to be a little more patient, but my mom's older. So she's going to be a little more patient with me. So it was like this unspoken understanding from the day. She was born and it's like the universe is gift to me. I mean she spectacular.

09:53 How cool that is so cool. And you know, one of the, one of the questions that we talked about was how, you know, whose influence your life and things. And it my thoughts about that. It is as the person that has two kids and has taught kids from kindergarten through high school for 34 years. I learned most from the little ones, they are honest, their thoughtful and they're not afraid. They're just not afraid to blurt it out. They don't have, they don't have that field. And so I just learned so much from those from those gets it. It's like pure genuineness, and authenticity. And that's just something that, you know,

10:39 I can honestly just bathe in it if it provides such a warm to be around someone who is candid and someone that can express love without concern, whether or not it will be reciprocated. It's it is people say it changes your life when you have a child in those or just aren't enough.

11:14 People, it's not just kids, but kids are what we're talking about. Now, you know, that those are things that does that one of my favorite mantras that I say, when we talked about stuff, is that every day is a gift and every moment that I have a meeting people in the grocery store or, you know, yelling at someone, when I'm driving my car, then I'm on my way.

11:47 With a bad feeling and it takes practice to get there too. I mean, surgery or redirect yourself in those moments of hostility. Something about success has like a work-in-progress like it's not but can never remember. Success is never owned.

12:26 I love that because it's something I was me off and said that you don't got it yet. Another lie or not another level.

12:45 Akelia, let's go and read Carol's bile a bio and have you a skinny follow-ups? May have

12:54 Carol. I'm a retired music educator. A person of faith and have an interest in politics. I am married with two adult children. The oldest is Korean. I grew up in Illinois, married and move to Oklahoma in 1981, other significant life events. Our mission trip to Mendenhall, Mississippi in 1974 and the Oklahoma teacher walk out in 2018 in my retirement. I plan on working with young people to teach them the value of voting and to encourage them to vote.

13:31 There's a lot of, a lot of nice beautiful things in that. So, I thank you for sharing. Number one, Caroline. Appreciate that. I'd like to start. By asking about Mendenhall, Mississippi.

13:44 Mendenhall, Mississippi in 1974. It was a church. I had just graduated from high school and was a two-week Church mission trip. And so we stayed in, you know, we went down from Evanston, Illinois in our big white, man, and to this.

14:09 Area neighborhood and we were staying in the gym, but we couldn't get in the gym right away because there was a church service going on and was a Pentecostal church service and growing up in the suburbs of Chicago. We had never seen this. These people running around the building and then going inside and out of Windows around the neighborhood, you know, trying to kill some time and it was a house there. That people would work sitting on the porch and they would waive you. No say, well, nice to see you here and all that stuff. We didn't, you know, okay, and so it started working and did some stuff.

14:55 But when we went into the town of Mendenhall with our white van people at the store, when asked what we were doing here, that the, the white folks and as soon as they found out that we were over on the voice of Calvary, side of town. They stop talking to it. And then the other is John Perkins, he is as a community developer. He's he's old old now that he was just starting this program invented Hall at the time and I got to know his daughter. She's pretty with Betty and lots of things other than that, but at one point, we were on the side of the road. We worked on there on a field that he was with us.

15:40 Black white. Sheriff came by this police car with a big ol cigar. I mean, the typical southern white policeman that you think I left and he had the biggest grin on his face when he saw us, but that he was kind of hidden. And when she popped out and he saw her the hatred on his face took all of us high school students. I mean, we were just dumbfounded and dumps truck cuz we have never ever seen it before and when it right now with a mean, we're back at it again with all this and all the stuff, you know, when when I talk to my friends that have not had an experience like that. I don't think, you know, they say, well, you know, they're just making it up there. And it was, it was, it was two weeks, two short weeks, but two weeks that

16:40 Absolutely framed refrigerate. What I how I thought about things and continues to refriend. You know, it is

16:50 It is a problem that you're around for a long time. In the more I hear about it, the more I hear about these racial matters and the more I see that, you know, this isn't, this isn't something that this new created in the last 20 years. 50 years. It's not because somebody has to be better than somebody else. I don't care if you're white or purple, your green. It's our, it's our little playground hierarchy, is what it is. And, and I don't know. I don't know how to fix it, except to talk to people and accept 22, you know.

17:32 Gently venture out my opinions when people take things like so it can't be that bad. Perhaps a little more informed about things about there.

17:51 Thank you for sharing. I would I think it's so valuable that you haven't lost that lesson and it seems like some people do lose hard lessons. They it's too much to carry that weight with them. But I think those are the most important lessons we have to hold onto. So I really appreciate the fact that you have really retained that experience and protected it in your memory and and you have it in your Reservoir to to go back in and tap into, I am actually from Mississippi originally. I was born. I was born and raised in Gulfport. And I my first year of college, I left high school at the end of my junior year on a scholarship to Millsaps, which is in Jackson, So I 29 South Mendenhall, Mississippi pop up. I was like No And then I looked at the year, which is not 74 was not too long after Medgar Evers.

18:51 Yeah, I know you need some, some very ugly, timeframes my mother. And

19:02 They had to have teeth. He's written stories about him. It's it's an actual you tell me if you'd probably enjoy it. Well, you might not enjoy cuz it's a rough story. But, you know, he had armed guards on his house in the front of his house because I believe it, I completely believe it, the chance of losing something or the perception of losing something evokes. A very strong response and in humans, especially insecure humans, I'm not going to lose anything. Somebody else has to and that's part of that empathy that we were discussing earlier being able to reach out. And not only see, your own needs being met Betsy. Your neighbors needs be met as well and that you don't always get what you want.

19:57 But you're supposed to strive to take care of yourself and to honor your community. I would also like to ask you about your kids. One of your children is ethnically Korean. Is that what I'm understanding? We adopted him and it is

20:24 It is not what one expect and I have to say, and I'm not your process. We were incredibly well, prepared by our adoption agency, about what this very well, and very well, prepared about expectations for your child, and all those things. Because we got over the years, we even have it at family, but I don't think anybody that I talked to was as well prepared as we were. So I'm very grateful for that. It was that back to my experience in Mendenhall that that ethnic thing and that multiracial thing, you know, about a about just having somebody different of your house, but once you have them for a while that that that difference doesn't matter anymore. It's what you see my daughter is this is God's one year. We thought we would never have children.

21:24 The next year, I have a little one and a half while one year old running like a crazy kid, and I'm pregnant with my daughter and and to make matters even more, My daughter was born December 5th, which in the music, teachers world is absolutely that time before. Christmas is the most busiest D frazee's, time ever there were times and I have this daughter that as a two-year-old thought, all the lights were for her. So it was still my daughter.

22:03 Was never comfortable around white kiss. And I realize that she was not seeking out her social situations, most of the time for social situations were with her brother or with other free kids because we were in a support group for Korean adopted. When she wasn't, what she wanted to see was a little Korean kid and she saw white kids and it bothered her, it bothered her on the flip side.

22:49 Later on, when I talk to people by church, that would say, we would talk about being a multi. Why, why is that? Well, that's because that's all you see you. If you haven't seen you and that's that such that importance of what I hear about women girls and then, especially women of color girls, color, and the and the importance of people seeing themselves and success, and other things, you know, right now, it's black musicians by professional musicians because they haven't seen that. So, it's been a very interesting. It was my kids. Are. It's all different now, but are our most

23:49 Enlightening conversation was when my daughter went to Korean Heritage Camp, which her brother was the only Korean his school. She comes home one day and says, but I don't like being the only Caucasian.

24:15 You have no sympathy for anybody whatsoever.

24:20 Power through a kid power through.

24:27 So, we've had my kids.

24:33 My son is always was probably saw, he's he's way smarter than we are way more. Is also an incredibly talented musician, which is so funny cuz my daughter is not and and they're not that close now, as adults, but they're there for each other, when they need each other.

24:59 What Carol is there? Anything else that you feel like I should know aside from what's in your bio?

25:07 I'm just a boring person that I retired. I get up.

25:22 I haven't quite figured out what my retirement is going to look like here. I'm still I put it off all summer. People said to me will how does he feel very tired? I said, it's still summer. It's just like any other summer. I don't have to think about that until school starts, which is typical me as well just procrastinate, push off. Push it off. So

25:44 I'm a regular person. I hope I'm a regular person. I hope I have a little more, I hope. Yeah, nice to meet you to Kelly. So I put the next question in there. Carol for you to ask Kelly. Its influential person one. This is the one I don't like, do I have to get to this one, too?

26:18 I'm waiting Carol. This is probably my least favorite question.

26:29 Is there either actually probably three people that are somewhat tied. My father was definitely a huge influence on me and he showed me how to show respect for other people. He was a public relations and business development director for City of Gulfport for several different mayors, and he just believes that if you're trying hard and you're working hard, and you deserve respect, and it didn't matter, gender or color or anything of that nature, that age didn't matter either. If you're

27:10 Purposeful, if you are.

27:13 If you intend good things, then you should be treated with respect and then a best friend of mine that I still know to this day and met him at age. 12 is name is William, not day and he,

27:31 He really taught me how to.

27:35 Try to be compassionate towards myself. We tried very hard and it took a long time for me to get it, but I'm finally there. And then my daughter, my daughter is probably tops the list. Kids, hold up a mirror, and I know some people don't like that mirror being held up. You know, they don't want to confront who they are. And I see it as an opportunity that she holds at this mirror and I go, okay. I like what I'm saying, or I don't like what I'm seeing and now I have an opportunity to improve on it and children just have that capacity coming out of that cancer. And authenticity, we were talking about

28:19 And then she just inspires me in a way that I've never ever been inspired before. And that definitely has a huge influence on me. She's made me a much better person, Gulfport, Mississippi, and the 70s and 80s on 80s. If I was in the 80s, ok, Google, my dad's from Piedmont, Oklahoma, and he joined the Airforce. So he was transferred there.

29:01 Okay.

29:03 And then,

29:11 Coincidence right now, but then my father went to it, when he finished up his enlistment, they decided to stay because he didn't like breaking the ice on the pond for the cattle to be able to drink.

29:33 Right there. Let's just say Carroll. Ye lycopus. Just stay here. And of course, the first year of my mom thought she was going to fall off when Dad said they'd transfer to Mississippi. What is that? Again? You're going to do that one alone, but then they stayed there for forty years and my father after enlistment went into radio and then he went into television and was the anchor for WLOX up until the early 80s. And then he switched to municipal government is also a journalist and is different aspects. So that was my daddy.

30:20 If I had had a lot of conversations and he really likes some of them made this one judge in Mississippi in the 70s. I wish I could remember the judges name, but he said that, that the KKK had filed to bug. But what is it a position to have a parade to the middle of some city in Mississippi and if you've been declined and so they pushed it to the court and so it ended up in front of this judge and the judge said now you can have your parade part of my language, but you don't get to wear any of those damn sheets over your head. Everybody gets to see who you are.

31:02 There you go. And my dad just invited it. Had him, it's respect for that judge. So my dad had lots of stories of a funny things and

31:12 And,

31:14 Stories of purpose. I mean, he was there was something he was trying to teach me when he would share a story with me and he was very charismatic about it. So, how are you? How do you?

31:36 Are you trying to be funny? That isn't as you're raising your daughter?

31:40 Oh, definitely. I mean, I remember watching my dad. He was speaking to some picnic with like a community picnic and I walked up to my father. My father was talking to another kid just having a conversation and an adult walks up and just completely interrupted the child and we just started talking. And my father turned and looked at him said, I'll be with you just as soon as soon as she's finished and turned right back to the child and let the child finish. I mean, it just that kind of an example. I mean, he never spoke to me about that. But just the examples that he Illustrated of how you show respect, and, and you think about your actions and that, definitely, I hope is coming through. With my daughter. I'm trying very hard. I'm trying to be very mindful, very thoughtful and to be aware that she sees everything that I'm doing.

32:36 And that if I don't explain it to her than it better speak for itself.

32:42 We had an old term when I was raising, my kids Concepts that are caught not taught.

32:51 I like that. Thank you.

32:53 And in most of what happens with kids I think is caught not talked. At least if it's caught its its memorable, much more memorable then it's it. It's a Salient memory and we know it's there and it's embedded that makes good sense. Thank you for sharing that with me because I'm going to ask about the day when I'm trying to reach out for a little more patience at different points. So

33:24 So, what about you.

33:36 Well, like I said, she's a patient kid and then we have dogs and cats. So she's got she got Playmates and babysitters and don't tell on each other. The dogs have been an email comes down with the dogs are. So I have to keep the clothes.

33:57 What is one in particular? Seems to work really well with Nina's in order to get into something like food.

34:08 Animals having figured out to they just the way they do, the rest of the animal kingdom, you know, we just we've lost touch with with our place in it. Sometimes I think

34:22 I just want to go back to school B.

34:34 Can't remember the words. You said that I went back to change. What, why people are so afraid of what's Happening, afraid of losing something. That's what you said, afraid of losing things and that, that translates into change. I think that's part of what's. The problem we have today is people are afraid of change. It's not like it used to be, we didn't do it that way. There's a person that a different color that lives in my neighborhood. Now, what's that going to do? You know that I have to confess that when, you know, we've talked about racism with people, I said, you know what, I think I am racist because when I see the person of color move into my neighborhood, it's like, what are you doing here? I shouldn't be that way. I should not be saying because you are a person. I don't know. I don't know, but but

35:34 That change is. What is I think? What scares all of us that makes it hard to move on. Nostalgia is very it has a lot of Temptation to it. It really does. There's there's a warm, there's a certainty to it. But the reality is that the world continues to spend, it continues to evolve and my job as a mother, for instance, is to help her learn how to adapt its but not to learn how to clean onto something that makes you feel warm and fuzzy. You know, I trust me, I did, I fight with my own Nostalgia and I'm just like, I just want this back or I just want it like that and then like, it doesn't work that way. You have a memory, appreciate the memory. Appreciate what can happen next. And so like she made herself her own little mask recently out of got a bread on velope and she just didn't teach her to do that or anything. I mean she wear

36:34 Mask. And she understands she reminds me if I don't have mine on and in enough time and I was thinking they would be saddened by the fact that child is making a mask and walking around the house, all the mascot but it doesn't make me sad. What what it brings to me is that my child can handle this, my child can roll with this. I mean, she can adapt. She's going to be a competent person that when the world throws her a curveball, she meant. Okay, I can take that. So, you know that perspective, comedian in perception, both. These are things that we choose.

37:17 And it's not easy to choose but we have that opportunity. Oh, we have the option to say, okay, I don't like this, but there is good that can come out of this now. Where can I find that little Golden Nugget gravity work on polishing it, right?

37:40 Well, and it again, you know, I think you probably been modeling that for your daughter and those are the concepts that are caught, not talked. And then it's a very cool thing. I think I'm supposed to tell you who's been the most influential person in my life, and I had to just be thinking about people.

38:02 I was talking to my sister about this yesterday. I said, you know, I'm not sure that I have any one particular person in my life that has influenced me and I can say yeah, this is what you did. I have people that have caused things to happen in my life and caused changing. My life that have stood me another Direction. So I can go, I can I'm doing like this little brief thing. My mom for introducing me to music and for cultivating dad in me that and figuring out that it was a gift. She did the same thing with my sister. It was not with her that it was with me. And then later on, in high school band director for just opening up that music world to me to make me just have that passion in that excited, love for it.

38:46 My dad for allowing me, he died when I was.

38:54 How old is I was a junior in college when my father died, but it, but I transfer universities and what I wanted to transfer. My mom was just all over at. Don't don't don't don't my dad allowed me to to move on and to do settings and to do what I wanted to do. Even if he thought it was a mistake. He he, let me do it, you know, which it, which I so appreciate it because when I transferred I met my husband, but yeah, we had all these things that happened. So so he really showed faith in you kind of state. My biggest memories of my dad or is his great sense of humor. And the last time I saw him before he died, we kind of tease each other about about stuff. But yeah, I'm glad I have that memory that we can laugh about things. So and then other things,

39:54 My husband was an educator and we had kind of decided that someone had to make money cuz teacher didn't make money. So, I would go into computers. So, I went, I worked in an oil and gas place. I learned about computers and she did that for six years, as like I really don't like this. And then the company laid me off, which was a fantastic thing because it pushed me into and my job came from being assertive in a community, Orchestra rehearsal. And seeing the trumpet player that sat behind me and I'm a woodwind player and Woodland. Players hate brass prices.

40:41 It's loud and you make me crazy. So I would never talk to him, but he was sitting in that Orchestra room with a Berry Hill band, t-shirt on and I had just heard that day, that Berryhill was looking for a, for a music teacher. So, I went in and I said, do you know the Berryhill band director? I'm looking for a job and he just got back in the chuckled and laughed. He goes. I am the very low band director and I'll talk to you after rehearsal. I got the job and I was there for 34 years, that the only place I ever taught. I had a, I had a great time, you know, but it's not like he he he taught me a lot about teaching, is no doubt about it. And he continues to be a good friend and a good Mentor, but it was him. You have given me the job. That really, that really changed my life and put me in this disgrace or so, and then, of course, the children up until

41:37 A little girl that just last spring that taught me about being more empathetic and understanding, kids that have issues. She just adjusted her, is her in her, braveness to show everybody that what's the disease, where you don't have any hair with an alopecia hair and she looked at me like, okay. What are you going to do about it? And I'm going, I got 25 kids and and she has to look on her face is, how are you going to react?

42:24 And I didn't know how to react to her. I didn't know what store the teachers dancehall. I said. Okay, tell me about this. What's going on. Am I going to say something you do? I need the story before I respond. And so she told me the story. It was it. It was a beautiful story about this little girl, that was tired of Keeping a Secret. She was in third grade and she's been wearing to work whole life and she was tired of that and show her work to do it though. So I had 30 minutes to figure out how am I going to respond to you? Because I know you're I don't know what you're looking for, and she was in the line and I just looked at her and said, what's your new book? Good for you?

43:07 And the next day, or the next time I saw her, she came in with two little weeds flower weeds, kids do this all the time. You know, that their Treasures, their Treasures that they find. She brought it in these things that she had picked up for the playground in the morning and gave them to me. And I thought, holy cow. I mean, that was, that was just something. I don't you don't 34 years of peaches last month of school. I'm still learning for kids of what what it's like, you know, so is very cool and I suspect that your memory that's caught and not. I hope so, I hope so Kate Lee you are right. This stuff go by quickly. We have we have about 10 minutes left and I want it. I want to get into something cuz I know we're alike at the fourth and final question.

44:07 And which is briefly describe being your worth your personal political values in your own words. I was hoping if you two could kind of mix that question within what is, what is an issue that we could and should come together on. So if if we could ask this question and then have you guys kind of mention a couple issues that you care a lot about and think that it should be something that both parties should come together on? That would be great.

44:40 You got it.

44:43 R. Kelly. Can you be? Okay, so last question for you both, there's some closing questions. I am an issues person. I'm not so much. A party person. I've been a member of both parties and as one party changes, then I'll have to switch to another one. It, it just depends on who it is, that's reflecting my core values. But ultimately, when I'm standing in that voting booth, it's going to be about the person that's running for office and I don't care what letters behind their name.

45:18 Are you more interested? Cuz I've been struggling with this to I'm, I'm timing issues for as well.

45:26 But,

45:29 What are you looking at the person? And we obviously are looking at issues. What about their character and integrity?

45:38 I think it is a mitigating Factor. Undoubtedly. It's a mitigating Factor. If it's a matter of personal indiscretion between the politician and their partner, that has nothing to do with me, you know, if you got an open marriage or you don't, but I don't, I don't care that has absolutely no impact on my life, unless, you know, you're trying to cover it up and you end up doing something craterus as far as

46:18 Practices. I would say if somebody is a known liar than no. I, I can't trust what they're saying. I mean, even if they're saying what I want to hear, it's all coming from an untrustworthy Source if they've been forward about the, for instance, Bad Business deals, but they're candid about them. I'll still listen to what they have to say, if they own their actions. If they own, what they've done is, things are in place, but if you've made a mistake before in your life, that's fine. Who hasn't made a mistake. Who are you now? And can we believe you? Are you going to stand by what you say? Are you going to fight for your constituents?

47:04 And if I genuinely feel like you will, then I'm going to listen to you and I'm going to try to pick and choose between who is trustworthy. As far as you know, I'm going to be at 4.

47:15 Are the same way I've always been a. I've never been a single issue voter about things and and so there are issues that rise up to the top more than others. But this will then I can't vote for you. You know, it's it's or it has to be a little, a lot of things so interesting. And so I can try to say yeah, I'm right with you when I moved Oklahoma and I went to register to vote. She said, the lady at the Skaggs, Alpha Beta said, what party do you want to register for? And I said, what do you mean? What party am I going to register for? And she said that you have to register for a party. I said I didn't have to do that in Illinois. I know. I don't want to play My Party.

48:11 And I shouldn't have to claim a party. And then she, I remember I gave her a little lecture and she chuckled and said you sound like my son, then you need to register it as a dependent. And I said, okay, I wasn't dependent for a long time, but I had to get a little pragmatic and practical about it living in and working and working the elections. 2018. OK. Google can I do? Because obviously fixing to change her, so I decided to become a priest. And so I went in and spent a whole day, did all the stuff in. And one of the interesting things I learned was that in order to be a judge order clerk. You have to be registered as a Republican or Democrat?

49:03 You can't be dependent and I did not want to have the higher up job, which was the inspector, the person in charge of everything. So I had to register. And so what I said, when I was at the bunny thing I said, so what do you need me to be? Cuz I really don't care. Just tell me what you need me to be, so that I can work for it. So that's what we did. I really do appreciate your pragmatic nature. Sincerely. I really do think she needed me to be a republican. So that's why I've been all right. And so now we have to decide what we need. What, what? What's the worst problem? We have that we can solve in 5 minutes.

49:54 What? You know, I definitely think that that Health Care is something that everybody needs access to including, mental health care, but I also think voting and in recognizing, from your bio, you know, you're interested in getting teenagers educated and registered to vote. I mean, I have to say when push comes to shove. I am not sure that anything is more important than registering people to vote in activating them to vote. Yeah. Yeah, and I agree with you. I think the voting think I think voting.

50:38 The lack of voting and, and not just like a voting, but uninformed voting person to trade me said, the only thing worse than a non-voter is an uninformed voter. And that is for me. It's like, okay, it's not just getting people to register to vote. It is getting people to learn and kids in particular, cuz this one night when I talked to young kids, and when I touch him, it's like, yeah, I don't care. I don't get it. I don't care. There's no sense in doing this. It doesn't matter anyway, and it's, it's okay. We need to do a better job at teaching, teaching, Civics and government, and teaching kids and some adults things, and figure out what it is that you're concerned about and who you could vote for it to change it. And my, my son who lives in Tulsa and has his friends with, with a

51:38 State representative now who was selected their, you know, and I remember him telling me about three or four years ago. He said, Mom, the change happens at a local level and he's exactly right about the local level. We get to worry about the alderman or whoever it is. And Bixby that represents me and the judges. That's where things are the exact. What is, what I mean. The federal level or whatever. I'm still has issues here at home. And if you start here and you build upon that. So yeah, exactly. So all the voting laws that we need to be very careful of and and and value and watch what, what they're trying to do this whole census thing and and

52:38 We doing the district's. We've got to be very concerned about and how that's done and how that's going to be done moving forward. So I completely agree with you on that can really be very Dynamic and I can have a real Fallout and it can be directly beneficial to one group over another. I think we've experienced that fall out in this last election for sure, with with last two elections of what happened then.

53:13 Have we solved the world's problems? We Starlight?

53:25 I am here just to kind of wrap up the audio and then we're almost done.

53:38 You can also come up with your own. I know which one I want to ask you Carol.

53:42 Alright, ask

53:45 Did I say anything that surprised you today?

53:53 I don't think so.

53:55 I actually I may be in the supposed to prize is how much we see we kind of see things eye-to-eye, you know, honestly when we were I was joking with with people around there and I thought, okay. I think they're going to pair me up with some old farmer that I don't know why.

54:22 So I think my surprise was just and I was so nervous about this and what we're going to do and so I should have just trusted Kaylee. She said you're going to have a good time and

54:39 I've really enjoyed it and I was very nervous too. And I spent yesterday just all excited about this conversation. I can hardly sleep last night. I was so excited but nervous at the same time. I've wanted to do this. I mean, especially throughout the different political and societal issues we have going on. I can't tell you how many times I've been in the car with my mom and of course, my child in the back seat, and I just, I just want to talk to somebody who thinks differently than I do. I want to try to have some kind of an exchange to better understand my community, which helps me to better understand myself. And so, when this popped up, I remember I was and it was on the radio and repeating the name of it.

55:39 One small step in muscle cell phone and I'm like a application out right now. Submit.

55:49 Well, I really enjoyed your company Carol.

55:53 It's been great, fun Kelly and and Kaylee is is there a way we can connect outside? Of course, I will get. If you both want to I will share your contacts that absolutely.

56:11 All right. Yes, we can go get something to eat at a nice little outdoor patios and place. You would be great. If you can meet Nina, that would be. That would be lovely.

56:27 Enjoy that.

56:29 Okay, so I'm going to, I'm going to stop the recording now.