Kelly Crowley and Suzanne Scott

00:03 My name is Kelly Crowley. I am 40-ish.

00:09 Today's date is Saturday, November 2nd 2019. We are in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

00:17 In my interview partner is Suzanne Scott who is a friend and a colleague and a teammate from the US politics team.

00:29 My name is Suzanne Scott or SB as I went by when I was swimming. I'm 27 years old. Today's date is Saturday, November 2nd 2019. We are in Colorado Springs Colorado. I'm interviewing Kelly Crowley who is a friend and teammate from the US paralympic team and Collie.

00:50 Information on depression

00:53 Sprites we should introduce ourselves a little more, right? Okay. So I am a two-sport pair Olympic medalist. I went to gold medals in Athens and swimming that was in 2004 and then I got recruited to the cycling team which we can talk about and I went to the London Games in 2012 and competed as a cyclist. Try one to bronze medals. I also raced professionally unprofessional women's team and

01:25 Yeah, those are the highlights.

01:28 I was a paralympic swimmer in 2008 and 2012. I competed in London and Beijing in the paralympic games there. I won a bronze medal in Beijing in the 400 freestyle after breaking the world record and then getting nominated for an Espy earlier that year. I got the runs amazing and one day and I got Bronze in the 400 again and it was a part of two relays one got Bronze in one got silver.

02:06 I totally forgot about the SP. I want to start their experience like it was very surreal. I I have used that word several times this weekend. I feel like I've used that word several times in my life. I grew up in a small town swimming wasn't even a real sport. A lot of people considered to be a real sport in my town and I wasn't very much interested in the rest of the Sports Animal. So I remember I was 15 when I got nominated. Nominated and I called my parents to tell them that's crazy. You didn't believe her.

02:54 Have an email saying that I'm nominated for this award. So that was I mean, it was very surreal to be able to go I got to go to the awards show. I didn't win an Espy, but just seeing all of these sports stars seeing just my family be very excited to see their childhood Heroes and having my coach Jimmy flowers there and that's all you do now. I swear there was just an incredible experience that I'm never going to forget.

03:28 Very humbled by yeah, right like you were the who were the other I want to put it in context like who were the other nominees so that name some other people that were nominated for ESPYs that you're right? I do remember Tim Tebow was nominated.

03:49 I remember.

03:53 Jessica golly. Oh, yeah, the other that was dominated the best athlete won best female athlete with a disability. I was on a paralympian but a softball player. That's the one who wanted so I don't remember her name honestly. Yeah, but what's not a paralympic sports? That's really not on our radar. So that was probably the Highlight is that date? They thought no, okay, I would love to hear about how you were recruited to the cycling team after having a

04:34 Olestra swimming career. Oh, well, okay. So tell the stories like two different ways to write. So the first there's like two sides of it. There's first side of it is that in the US. I mean, you know that still write like we don't have a very robust athlete development pipeline. Right? Right. And so when you retire from one sport the national team director and the other sports are like hey, there's a talented athlete. Maybe they're just burned out on that sport. Maybe they're not really done. Maybe they want to try something new right? So there's like that aspect of the paralympic universe. Right? Right coincidentally at the same time. I met my husband who I was with my husband at the time. We ate were still getting to know each other and

05:25 This is such a long story. Imma try to tell the short version but we so a bunch of my guy friends at the time were way into cycling, but they weren't like they didn't race. They just didn't have cars. So they ride their bikes everywhere. They got me a bike at the swap meet and I would go out on the weekends with them we would ride bikes. And so I thought I was a cyclist. So then I meet my husband who was erased bikes. He is a cat 1 racer which is like the highest amateur category before you become a professional and a couple weeks into our relationship. He was like you want to go for a bike ride and I was thinking about my guy friend by commuter. It's right if I was like, yeah sure it's good. We got on his bike ride. And I thank God I was like still sort of swimming at a time cuz I have a lot of Fitness. I was working so hard to stay on his wheel and stay in his draft on this ride that we went on we get back. He was lived in San Francisco at the time. So you go across the Golden Gate Bridge and you ride around this just like grout called.

06:25 What are they call that one? I forget the name of it now. But anyways, you basically just go around is there's a lot of hills and it goes by San Quentin. This is very beautiful on the water and great Paradise Whoomp. There it is. Okay, so we get back from riding Paradise Loop and where most of the way back to his apartment and he turns around at this one stoplight he goes. Oh my God, no woman has ever been able to stay with me when I ride like that. You're so good. And I was like, no I think maybe he just fell in love with me. So anyways fast forward a couple months that he was really good and I was like nah, I'm just burned out on something. I need to take time off, but I'm going to go back to swimming cuz I'm not done. I still have things I want to do in the Paralympics and he sort of coerced me into doing the time trial with the power wheel or the power meter on my back. Really no Treasures your power output downloaded the data and then he showed me he was like look your competitive with like cat to

07:25 I'm in and you're not even trained like you could be really good at this and I was like, oh interesting. So then I said what any of like aspiring athletes as I called the national team director, my boyfriend said I should tell you that my power and my time trial was this and he goes, oh, will you send me the power file file and then a couple days later, he called me back and said she should come to one of our training camps and then effectively recruited me to the team. So I was still on the like I'm going to do swimming and cycling cuz they're still awfully. It's who at the time were like kind of able to do both Sports, you know.

08:25 But it's so competitive right? I mean you can't it's definitely not in swimming. Anyways, what class did you race in? And so yeah, so there's like there's a good number of athletes in our categories really bright hard to qualify and stay on the team. You tell me a little bit about I'm curious about the classification and what that was like for you but actually how it feels to be I feel like there's a lot in the Paralympics a lot of people go of that person doesn't even look disabled. What are they doing here right was I ever like something that you felt on our team?

09:09 Classification

09:12 Sure.

09:15 Yasso in the Paralympics Sports is dumb.

09:18 At least in swimming there are 13 physical and visual classifications and then one classification for cognitive disabilities. So s 1 through 10 are the classifications for the physical disabilities. So I Suzanne M or was it an S10 which meant that I was in the most able-bodied of the classifications in the physical classifications 11 through 13 or visual. So 11 would be completely blind or close to it and have to swim with a blacked-out goggles 13 is legally blind, but can still see some things and yeah. Elaborate if you now I think you nailed it with any sport life in general there going to be people that try to find ways to cut corners and cheat the system.

10:13 The classifications of Hot Topic in Paralympics right now, and I don't think that's

10:19 Really?

10:21 Newsworthy, I think that's kind of been a Hot Topic since at least I was competing to think it's ever going to change. That's a whole other conversation like yeah, I

10:32 I remember when I was swimming so I'm an S10. I walk. I have a form of spina bifida, but I walk I don't look disabled. I'm not none of my appendages were missing and when I was actually in shape, I walked a lot better than I do now, so

10:55 Yeah, I do remember hearing any rumors about me personally, but just I know that.

11:04 It's a Hot Topic and has been a hot topic. I always try to trust that the class of the classifiers knew what they were doing and did it the best I could it was it's not a perfect system and I don't think it can be but that it was the best that it could be and that's kind of in just that I would work as hard as I possibly could and it just control the things that I could control what kind of My Philosophy when I was training and stole my philosophy now, I don't

11:35 I don't like to speculate on other people's like life situations and their

11:40 You know, there are their stories that that's them and yeah, yeah, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the classification like just in general or

11:54 Yeah. Yeah, I think classification is tough that there is there never is never going to be a system where the the

12:05 Weather where everybody's happy never never never going to happen. And the reason for that is because classification is this it's this disability is a spectrum. Right? Right and they're having in order to make classifications. You have to draw black lines and gray and so like everybody on one side of the line is always going to be wanting to be just on the other side of the line because that's where they're more competitive and and that's just always going to happen no matter what so to me it it I feel like a lot of that change the impetus for change in the classification system comes from

12:44 External outrage, right like athletes are super upset about it or fans don't understand like in swimming, especially I feel like there are a lot of races we get to the end of the race and you see some athletes climb out of the pool and other athletes can't walk and they slide under landline and said get in their chair and be like wait, how is that a fair race? So try to address some of that. I feel like those are the things that are putting pressure on the classification system. And I think they're probably there needs to be more of a a research-based underline the classification system and that just nobody's ever invested in that too much IPC is working on that sure, but it's, you know, it's still evolving what you were saying when you

13:37 When when this type of topic is approached from a point of speculation?

13:44 They're going to be the external outraging not always healthy things for the sport. But yeah, I appreciate that. You were in classification like you went to your classification quite a few years. What year I initially did it was 2005 and I was nationally classified. Okay, and then

14:10 Again later that year in December and there was some confusion IDK class out except for the breast benign for a while, which is a sign out. There are different classifications for Different Strokes, but then I got classified in San Antonio several months later in 2006 permanently and made the world Chevy dock in tell the rest. I had no idea that happened to you was never an issue after that. I and then I had spinal cord surgery week in my life even more. So yeah.

14:50 2016. Okay. So what what was the actual classification like like what happens when you walk in that room? I was asked to walk there with their bench test. This will be kind of test the functional limits of each limb and your core and then you're asked us when he took the strokes and you're evaluated by a professional sewer have a number system and now they kind of rank each limb on the ability and as well as the corn your motor functions and

15:26 And then they watch you swim right? Do you think that the class that they the classifiers?

15:36 They are making are taking into account how much time somebody has spent training when they're doing classification cuz I'm going to look at athletes and I think we're just getting started and said, of course, they're technique isn't great. And of course, they look really slow and uncoordinated in the water and you have to take that as late and put them five years later and if they went up through classification that first classification 5 years later would that change her category that they end up right because of the perception the way that cause fires you them. Have you given any thought to that or do you have any opinions on that?

16:15 I am several finding somebody. I haven't given it a ton of thought. But yeah.

16:26 You my opinion about your opinion my opinion is it?

16:33 Yes, but those types of scenarios that should be taken into account and just looking at the edge of the athlete the time since developing a disability whether those from birth or an accident of some sort.

16:49 I think all those factors need to be taken into consideration. And again, you're trying to draw black and white with the gray and I think it's just very it's just very difficult to

17:02 I have set boundaries all of the time, but how did you get into swimming? So I grew up?

17:11 Failing miserably at all of the sports gravity and a ball my parents were coaches and very much wanted me to not fail at the sports. So I've been asking to swim since I was very young and finally they decided to let me swim swimming know like what was it about swimming? I feel free in the water. I didn't have to feel like a clumsy on athletic person. So when I started swimming I felt like I was normal and I didn't consider myself as a disabled person. My disability is very mild. But when

17:56 Sports I I noticed it and I felt like I was not coordinated and I'm not very coordinated athletic. I don't believe that but yeah swimming was different. There's freedom in the water and

18:12 We're at my brother's soccer tournaments in 2004 and a half and a catch on the Paralympics and I saw women walk out to the blocks.

18:26 And actually owns one of them. Oh, yeah. I was just hundred free app and I got curious sleep, but that prompted me to learn more about the Paralympics and see if I could qualify. So I have no idea that you found out about the Paralympics on TV. I just assumed that you had cuz you're you're kind of in my mind, you're like the generation behind me and things have been changing so fast that I just assumed that your coaches knew about the Paralympics know who he did but I would be very curious to hear about how you started the Paralympics and why swimming is very similar very similar because I grew up swimming at my parents. Actually. The funny thing is I got into swimming because I got kicked out of gymnastics because my funny arm, right? My elbow is fused and my of these three fingers

19:26 Android and so that doesn't work very well for all the bar routines and I couldn't do I can't hold on going around or I didn't have coaches to help me figure it out. It's probably the real truth of that cuz there's very few things. I thought I really can't do but anyways, so I got kicked out of gymnastics and my mom wanted to hang out with her friends and her my friends her friends kids were in swimming and so they joined the club where those girls or something so that I could go swim while my mom could hang out with her friend. So I got to do something in second grade and I eventually fell in love with it because I realized it there came a certain point in basketball, which is the other sport that I loved that there came a certain point where I could see that I wasn't going to be competitive and I knew that in swimming Expressions kick sets

20:26 That I was like faster than everybody else. Like I can keep up when I was included. I felt part of the group. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I was like, that's why I fell in love with it and then I went out to applying to colleges I had this dream has aspiration to be on the Olympic team because I was the only I was like the the fastest swimmer on my high school program who came to our practices. We had a couple of girls on our team who are technically faster than me, but they were never a practice cuz they swim like a USA club. Right and I was like look at all these people that I'm faster than right. Like, I'm clearly I'm good at that isn't anything else, but I'm good at

21:16 And so I wanted to swim in college and I had one coach they sure happy to have you and so I said it wasn't going to school then. I went to lunch with one of my friends and he said where you going to college next year and then I blurted out the thing that I had told anybody else in my life because I want to be an Olympian and he sort of like POTUS Independence. I'm really slowly and he's like the Olympic serve for people with.

21:46 Natural talent and I was like, okay he's right and he he meant it in a positive way. Do you know what I mean? Like he was trying to protect me from like chasing the impossible sounding thing, right? I mean like wouldn't it sound it sounds on if you don't know about the Paralympics, it sounds crazy that this girl with the funny arm or somebody was it don't work is going to somehow compete against people like Michael Phelps and and Katie Ledecky right? Like that's absurd. Yes you work hard, but that's like right. So so anyways, I went to the only school that didn't have a swimming program. I pursued other things in life and it was at the end of grad school when I was up late at night watching TV. I don't know if I want to live in DC or move back to California. I saw pool on TV, and I went the reshowing is Sydney Olympics. I used to love swimming and so I flipped

22:46 Talk to that channel and then they zoomed in on the athletes on the blocks and they were all empty teas and the announcer said welcome back to our coverage of the Sydney 2000 paralympic games and I was like what that's exactly like how I mean to Athens. What's my parents? We're in a hotel because my brother was the athlete and he had a soccer tournament and my friends were flipping through the channels because we didn't live in St. Louis. We didn't know them but he's all pool on TV like we swim too. So, let's see what this is. But yeah, that's crazy. I can't believe our stories are so similar. That's amazing.

23:30 Casual, I just assumed it was so different because you guys are I feel like things are changing so quickly, you know, so will cool. I'm glad you discovered it. So what I want to know so after I switch Sports after after Athens, right like you were in Beijing and London, so how would you

23:54 Compare those like London. How was it was an experience like as a swimmer?

24:00 Who's it was crazy honestly in my

24:06 Stories play a little more unique if I came out here in 2007 to train for Jimmy flowers for a year. And then he passed away sadly in 2009. So in the middle of right after my first games, which was this incredible experience and I was so excited and going into London was I mean definitely exciting. I had a great group of friends surrounding me and just say I felt very supported I did feel like I was you know something for Jamie anyway, and so there's a little bit more emotional definitely and I was older and

24:40 Mature, but but definitely great both great. I'm so grateful for both experiences and

24:53 What was the crowd like in a can you compare the two? Yeah, I think it's rough estimate. I remember in Beijing. I will look and see my family in the stands and I can pick them out in London. They would get there early and I could see where they were sitting. But by the time this dance. I could not pick them out in the crowd. That's crazy. I've never been in that kind of situation. But if a velodrome was like that too. It was like the the it wasn't there was fewer people in the velodrome to there was like so hot in there because there's so many people right and the decibels like when during the races it was so loud. I believe they're after the evening session in your ears would be ringing like you've been to a rock concert. I remember that feeling. Yeah. That's so cool. So cool to see how

25:53 Ported grown for years

25:59 Okay, so I have no eyes but I saw on the on the list of questions what three sounds do you associate with your sport?

26:09 I like this question the good question. Yeah.

26:13 I think I am going to go with even the quiet is when you're swimming in your head's underwater. Everything's muted. I was thinking also the beat the beat the ass.

26:29 This is exactly the two things that I was thinking and I think I'm going to go with.

26:36 Whistled at my Coach Dave Dennison before London lovingly called. Mr. 2D. What are you the same exact thing? I love that that like the sound of like when you're especially at a big meet where like you go to breathe and there's like a ton of noise and then you put your head back into the water and everything's kind of like it's just water like you hear water moving. I love that and and the beef cuz that's like an important moment in the race Asia the tone of it right now like yeah, and I think the other thing is the sound of

27:22 Like my hands holding the water in freestyle and Butterfly like that like that moment of contact with the water cuz that's to me that was how I was I would set my race Rhythm based on like. Sound kind of yeah. Yeah. How did you okay? Here's the one sound and that is the sound of your disc wheels as your racing like when you're wasting your time trial bike, you know that the disc wheels are the ones that have like the the solid back wheel they make this like boom boom boom boom sound. And so when you're going really fast. Combined with like your Aero helmet it kind of like the sounds kind of like

28:08 It to get Amplified and muted at the same time like it's hard to explain but you hear that the sound of your wheel in this really exaggerated way inside your helmet your helmet and then the sound of your like, you know gasping for air is here like hear that your helmet to

28:32 I'm sorry, I dropped you know, that was a good. Yeah, I know do I also wanted to ask you what was your like pre-race routine? Like what would you do to like get in that frame of mind or did you ever so when I was a swimmer? I was really bad at this like I did not do a good job of getting into like competitive mental headspace. I didn't know that I had control of what is a cyclist had to figure it out and I got better at it. So did you ever feel like you were in control of was going on before you racist mentally or and Mike if so, how did you what was that like First International Meat was when I was 14 in 2006. So I definitely learned a lot since then. I remember coming back from that meet thinking.

29:19 I need to have a routine of some sort and it's free trade said it had kind of my own different routine for my best race the 400i.

29:29 Would usually listen to music and have my like pieces that I would do in warm up and I'd be a little quieter and more withdrawn but also

29:41 I had everything I still have a really good relationship with my competitors from

29:47 What's my race so I I would you know.

29:51 Because I put them in the ready room and kind of build a relationship with them which was fun for me and it was very cool to be able to beat them when I was in the pool, but I know that we were friends outside the pool and

30:09 Yes, sorry. I didn't listen to music and kind of just getting in my head space but then also and kind of knowing.

30:15 Where was but also in my head space, but also not shutting everyone out. So a blend of that if that makes sense. Sure. I can't believe you came back from that meet at 14 and said I need to have a plan. Where did it did you actually without did that come from one of your coaches, or did I come from you because I'm nervous and diet of a butt.

30:52 It's kind of similar. I will as a swimmer. I didn't have a plan right was just totally random. So the cyclist honestly it was because I was in such a such a tough position qualifying for the London Games. I wasn't initially on the team when they name the team, even though I had won the National Championship race and just beating everybody and and so and I knew that was going to happen 9 months out and so every day I had to wake up and decide like am I going to continue to pursue this thing that I'm pouring all my money into and making no money off of him delaying my like career or ought to know that I'm not going to make the team or am I going to like find a way to put all that stress and anxiety and worry about whether or not this is the right thing to do put that aside in order to go out and do what I feel like I need

31:52 What you see this through and so I think just there was you know, my my coach Jim Layman St. Jim Layman called him like everyday to be like, I don't know if I should continue to do this and bless his heart. He was just like, you know, what if you wanted to stop doing this tomorrow or today? I thought you liked it. Totally I get it and that's all I needed was permission to quit and then I was like, okay, I'm good. Talk to you tomorrow.

32:24 Permission to quit with a huge one cuz it's hard and then the other part of it was like almost everyday self-hypnosis, but pretty close noticed one day on when I was riding my trainer and that I was training in the garage a lot cuz it was a more controlled environment. I noticed that uncertain songs. I was like super focused and riding really hard. And so I said, oh this is where I get like really really pumped. So I took those couple of songs and I put them aside and I saved them for race day. I took them off my playlist so that and then on race day I took those three songs and put them on infinite repeat and literally like I remember the first time I tried this on race day so that I wasn't worried or stressed about anyting literally just put it on put in my headphones like when I woke up and walked around the house getting dressed and pack in the car and everything like with this response just late and I

33:24 Just like so focused and I managed to like maintain that all the way to the race course all the way through warm up all the way through Mary's it was the best race I ever had best time trial I ever had like wearing my like at the national team event and I was like, holy crap. This is like, this is Magic money like this like this van Gogh's just know. I mean it just three songs like find what

34:09 What was on your playlist I was going to say I was going to offer to ask who's your okay? So speaking of inspiration and whatever who is your who were his words here? I was growing up you like or all of them?

34:37 I need a group training as a distance from her. So Janet Evans Casey glitter cases with broken world record.

34:46 The same summer that I was getting really competitive in the Paralympics. So I looked up to her and ended up meeting her in 2012 because it's cool. Just do the national team like she real Training Center. Oh and my car when I was driving and I didn't hit her, but we ended up talking one day and then talking at this light gymnastics demonstration was happening and had this like really cool conversation. They were able to catch up in Washington DC right after amazing and then I mean my teammates so Ashley Owens and Aaron and

35:31 How to say all of that the greats but I love that you had paralympic Heroes right like that. They said that they were paralympians that you could look up to. Yes cool that did not happen to me Jerry Rice and Joe Montana. You probably don't even know who they are.

35:53 Yeah, I know my room was plastered. I grew up in the Heyday of the 49ers, right? And so and 7th grade like all of my friends their rooms are plastered with like New Kids on the Block posters and my room is plastered with pictures of 49ers and unlike people at professional sports athletes that I torn out of Sports Illustrated for kids. So mostly guys actually except for there was a couple like some of the female basketball players like Jennifer AZ and actually Lisa Leslie. I don't want to be fangirl this event because I know we're all Olympians and paralympians here, but I really want to be like, I almost walked up to her and you say that you didn't have paralympic Heroes, but I know that you were paralympic hero you were a paralympic hero to some of my teammates even I know that

36:53 It's like I don't believe that I mean you helped crazy and she helped July's get it to I have said so many things about you. Just yeah, I knew who you were.

37:12 In a very positive way so well for what it's worth. I I heard a lot about all of you guys and I I definitely was like man, they got it good like they there is it sounded like that. You guys had a really special team likes good team chemistry and just injustice for Jimmy, which I would have like I would have loved it. I would have loved it cuz I'm a few interactions that I had with him. I was like you're amazing right and so for you for you guys to go to have that kind of opportunity is why it's like Bittersweet. I have probably for the both of us that to hear about, you know, the metal money and the name change on the organization is so groundbreaking and it just

38:12 Not so fundamentally changes the way the athletes are perceived and treated right and and so is it there's like this like I didn't get to be part of that. Like I had to be part of the area where I was writing letters with like the slogan that are teachers was offencive get branded as the letter writer. So I think it's cool to me to be able to hear you say that and to see what the some of the younger athletes get to say. Like I had part Olympic Gyros right like that's huge for

38:54 I think about the LA games, right La 2028 and the I totally hope I don't know. Maybe you thought about this too, but we have such a long run of from when they announced the LA would be the host City to when they're actually hosting the game but there's literally eight-year-olds who can hopefully see the paralympians like this crop of this year's paralympians on TV and go I want to be that I want to do that and then actually go do it like what that would be so cool. And you know, I'm on the one hand like so my personal I personally I'm like I didn't get to do that.

39:38 But actually maybe we did write like maybe I did get to do that in London. It just has a different it wasn't exactly the way I would have written the story if I had written the Fairy Tail, right, right.

39:52 Yeah.

39:55 When you imagined when you imagined as you were like growing up?

40:00 Did it did the did did this adventure like meet your expectations? I didn't even even dare to dream that I would be living at the Olympic Training over five years. We get to a room where I'm nominated for an Espy award.

40:25 Oh, yeah, it's it's been phenomenal, you know, not not necessarily because of like the the trappings in the stuff cuz let's be real didn't make any money from I became a new person when I discovered that I can control like my frame of mind and my the way I handle stressful situation and like right, I mean it transforms the way we operate in the real world.

41:05 I think yeah, it's it definitely does but

41:10 Okay, so describe your parents a career in I don't know kick five words that are like this summarizes my paralympic adventure.

41:23 Okay, really hurting right now.

41:27 It's a humbling.

41:29 Definitely end

41:33 That's a good question. I'm going to think of the two of us. We can come up with five. Okay, so you got one now my turn to come up with one cuz I'm like, that's a really good word humbling.

41:46 I like the I think of it it yet Community because I discovered this whole part of the world is holding me giant community in the world that I didn't even know existed and it's just been amazing. Yeah.

42:03 Yeah, go one step further and belonging. Yes. Yeah. It's kind of like a little bit more.

42:17 How's my turn again?

42:41 Good question. Good question.

42:50 AC privilege, yes.

42:58 That's really Choice word. I love the way you think it's all been a privilege. And also I really appreciate you getting to know you more Kelly and just more of your story and just have this kind of conversation about likewise. Thanks for sitting down.