Kennedy Carter and David Sloan

00:00 Hi. My name is Kennedy I am 21 years old, and today's date is October 25. I'm recording from the University of Virginia, and my conversation partner's name is David

00:13 Okay.

00:14 Hi.

00:14 My name is David I am 67 years old, and today's date is. What is today's date? I don't remember.

00:24 October 25.

00:26 There you go. And I am recording from my office, and my conversation partner's name is Kennedy

00:33 Great. So I wanted to ask how you both found out about One Small Step and why you decided to have this conversation today. Yeah, I can start. So, I actually found out about One Small Step in this exact class that I'm currently in. We had somebody come and speak to us, so I'm currently working on an architecture project right now, and it's very community driven. And so it was a workshop where we wanted to know the ways that we can kind of produce work in a way that's very heavily focused on the narratives of people and kind of forcing people to speak their truth and then having that kind of become a part of the way that we design. So that's One thing that really stood out to me about One Small Step and that's something that I. That made me want to speak with David today was kind of just getting out of my comfort zone and getting to know somebody that I usually wouldn't surround myself with and understanding the perspective of a different side of person.

01:36 That was good. Kennedy That's a hard. That's a hard One to follow up. I think I got involved because I'm at a point in life where I have a friend who wrote a book One time called my Accidental Life. And it sounds sort of a lot like the path that I have followed. And it's been. I went to UVA and played sports and met a lot of people and was in a fraternity, et cetera, et cetera. And I was there not knowingly at the time, obviously, but I was there at the university during a time of high transition and tension, and I, you know, both with allowing women and then allowing African Americans, and I'm not sure about, you know, any other, you know, Asians, whatever, indian, you know, people of the. From. From the. From other parts of the world. I guess I'm saying Virginia was pretty much an all white, all male school. And so, as I've gotten older, I'm also a Charlottesville native. I've embraced learning more about those. All of those topics and how it ties into where we are as a city, where we are as a university, where we are as a country to some degree. So that's what pushed my buttons. I like people. And, Kennedy your little bio about loving to be around people and having a huge social life, that certainly was the track that I took and am still on to some degree. Although I will say that between getting older and Covid, I have learned that. And politics in America, which I don't think we're supposed to talk about that much, but politics in America certainly made me less inclined to be around a bunch of people that I've known for a long, long time. But that's a. That's another whole topic. Anyway, that's how. And I'm not sure where it came from. I mean, I'm not sure where. I must have been on some list somewhere. I'm not. I can't really remember. Riley, do you remember? I mean, was. I'm signed up on a mentoring site through the alumni association, but they don't seem to be that active, so I don't know how much sharing goes on. But anyway, those are the things that interest me, and I'm. I'm very interested in particular right now with things that are happening at UVA with the Jefferson council and some of that movement, and the fact that UVA is so diverse, comparatively, as it should be. It's a public institution, in my opinion. It should be diverse, and it should be everybody, regardless of their gender, their color, their religion, their sexual preference, any of that. It's just. It just blows my mind how much. How many people out there that are on a different page. So, anyway, there you go.

04:47 Thank you both. Those are both really compelling reasons to sign up, and I enjoyed hearing that. I also want to clarify. You guys can definitely talk about politics. Just sometimes people talk too abstractly about hypotheticals. So when you talk about politics, we just want. Like you were just doing, David talk about what it means to you that means to a group. But I also wanted to ask you guys, One Small Step is about putting yourself in your partner's shoes. So to each read your partner's bio aloud, Kennedy if you want to read David's first, and then, David you could read Kennedy's and then take about five minutes to just ask questions that you have about your partner's bio or expand on your own bio after that. Yeah. So David's bio says, I was born in Belmont in Charlottesville, and have lived here for all but two years of my life. Attending UVA was a big life event. Turning 60 was a big life event. Having three daughters was a huge event and continues with watching them in their adult lives. The biggest issue that I am passionate about is racial equality and systematic racism and how to try and make a positive difference in achieving equality for all of.

05:55 And Kennedy says, I'm a college student in her early twenties. That is a huge social life and loves to be around people. I have a tendency of getting over involved and stay busy with things from work organizations and schoolwork.

06:12 Yeah. So One thing that I wanted to ask you, David was just how was your childhood? I'm so interested in knowing, like, growing up in Charlottesville and then coming to UVA like, how did that look for you?

06:23 Well, my father was a police officer, which, in the city of Charlottesville, Belmont was at the time, and still is, for the most part, predominantly white, working class part, you know, part of Charlottesville. And so I played sports, which is how I ended up coming to UVA Had an opportunity to go to other places and certainly thought about it and looked hard at a couple spots. And I have no regrets ending up at UVA I've got so many people in my network that were part of college, and part of that is because, you know, I am very socially driven and, like, talking, which, you know, feel free, you can tell me just to hush anytime. But. So I grew up very blue collar and watched my mother and father struggle and finance everything they ever had. My mother was a very smart lady and did not get a chance to go to college. So she was pretty much determined that my brother and I would go to college, and we both did. And we both went to UVA We both played football, and that's how that got started. So, you know, and then I moved away for a couple years and came back in 1980 and got married in 86, and the rest is history, as they say, up in self employed. I watched my. I don't know how that happened because my parents both, you know, took. Took jobs that didn't pay all that great and, you know, financed everything we ever had, but they made it work. And I guess that's the One thing that I take from so much of the stuff that we see out there today, out there being just in general with social media, way too much stuff being printed and spoken and recorded and so forth and so on. But, you know, I did. I have two parents that. That did what they needed to do or had to do to make. Make things work for us. And for that, I'm very. I'm very grateful and hope that my children, One of these days will say the same thing about their mother and I. So, anyway, it's, you know, some say it's a little unfair that you're still in your hometown. And I know a lot of people that are born and raised here that are still around, and Charlottesville's just a great place. Things are going to change. I'm 67. I mean, it's not like it was back in the sixties, you know, and I came through at a very crucial time with integration and massive resistance and the Vietnam War and drugs and protest and civil rights. And those things did not resonate with me at the time. But as I've gotten older and have a little more time to focus on things outside of a career and getting my daughters raised, it's something that I'm very passionate about, very tuned into. And I love the opportunity to connect with UVA students in general, but certainly UVA students, that did not fit the historical model of UVA students. Kennedy women, people of color, et cetera. So, anyway, by the way, where are you from?

09:57 Yeah, so I am from Couchland, Virginia. It's about 45 minutes east of Charlottesville, so basically my hometown as well.

10:05 Awesome.

10:06 Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, where I'm from, it's a very rural white area, very country. And so coming to UVA it was kind of a culture shock just because I was used to being around. I mean, I wasn't. It wasn't a shock to be around a lot of white people, but it was a shock to be around a lot of white people with money. And so kind of just seeing that, and it's very different. I think I was raised very differently than you because I kind of, all my life, had to focus on, like, how I am in that different category. And so kind of understanding it from a different perspective, and then coming to UVA and seeing people that never had to think or deal with these problems, it was very difficult at first. And so some things that I would do as a response to that would be just to self segregate and kind of be around people that looked like me in hopes that they understood where I was coming from. And then I think One thing that kind of leads my bio is One thing that really helped me coming from Goochland to Charlottesville, which is getting very involved in organizations that kind of lined up with what I felt my morals were and what I felt like I was very passionate about, which was helping the community and kind of just, like, creating networks of peace between people. And so I think that's what led to me becoming very involved in all of these organizations. And as a result, I did make a lot of friends and I did find, like, my niche in my community here at UVA And I think that's what is so powerful, is just being able to be around people that kind of share similar stories to you and can relate, but also people that are engaged and people that are willing to go out of their comfort zone and meet people that might not kind of have similar backgrounds or experiences and be able to have conversations that are meaningful with them. So I think it's very interesting to hear your story and see how you became passionate about this. I want to ask is, has there or was there a specific event or something like in history that made you very passionate about what you are now? Like, has there been an instance in time that you want to talk about, or is it just kind of as you got older, you felt as if these are things that you really want to start diving deeper in?

12:23 Yeah, I think the initial spark was marrying my wife, who's from Waynesboro and who has been a lifelong Democrat, all of her, you know, she's been a lifelong Democrat. And I would say that I'm probably a heck of a lot more liberal than I ever thought because I don't find, you know, of course, I was like a lot of kids, born in the mid fifties and raised during the sixties and early seventies. I mean, I went to church till I was twelve, got baptized. So I have that christian foundation there in there, for what it's worth, category, and I'm not trying to poo poo that, but the older I've gotten, I've realized how basically Christianity really ought to be love thy neighbor, and we fall woefully short on loving our neighbors, regardless of income, color, whatever, there's a lot of that going on. And that's the only thing I will give Donald Trump credit for, is that he has stirred that nest up, and now it's really up to those of us who believe that we ought to be loving One another and not hating One another, that we somehow get involved in that. So I would say that probably, you know, my dad was a cop. He worked at least One other job most of the time. And obviously, unfortunately, just due to the way things have been in this country for so long. And you touched on it a little bit just a minute ago, not only being a woman, but being a woman of color. You know, I look at some of my friends sometimes if this discussion comes up and I say, you look at a white woman in her sixties and say you've only had the right to vote for 100 years, and they look at you like, wow, this man is crazy. You know, what is going on with him? But anyway, so I became passionate because I played sports, and sports are the great bridge between the races. You're nothing black or white. You're a football player or you're a basketball player or you're a field hockey player. And I think athletics goes a long way. And then getting involved both from some of my own initiative as well as a project going on that I'm involved with right now about massive resistance, which is all about athletics and integration, stuff that they really honestly didn't teach us coming up in the sixties, you know, just One part of it, One part of history, or as I like to call now, critical race theory, which is a hot button, is a real hot button of mine. So, you know, some of my african american teammates, even in high school that I've called specifically to meet and talk about, how do we turn this huge ship around? We've made progress, but we really haven't. How far have we come? How do we turn that ship around? And, you know, they make comments like, you know, we would practice together and we were on the same team, but then you'd go home to your white neighborhood, and I'd go home to my black neighborhood. And oftentimes those things were, you know, very, very different. And again, like you, I was absolutely. I mean, the greatest, One of the best things that ever happened to me was getting involved in things other than athletics. And. And then I joined a fraternity at the beginning of fraternity at the beginning of my third year, and it had a hell of a lot of wealthy prep school guys in that fraternity, and they're great guys. I'm getting together with them this weekend to go to the football game and stuff about six or seven, excuse me, coming into town and different backgrounds. And that has allowed me to. I mean, I've gotten into some pretty heated discussions with a few of them, but I. Anyway, I don't know. You know, so, like you, I mean, I went to UVA kind of thinking, man, I wore khakis in a button down pink Oxford shirt. I never wore that high school. I thought I was some kind of preppy. But it is still there and very much so. And, you know, I think it's our. I think it's our mission in many respects to not hold that against them. We can't. We're not going to change that. And it's the way that. It's the way that that part of that equation works, but also try our best not to make any judgments about them. And maybe more importantly, is be who you are and not who they are sometimes, you know?

17:10 Right, exactly.

17:11 So sounds like that's something that you have. You have examined and decided where you are in that process. So that's very, very commendable and mature on your part.

17:25 So, anyway, yeah, and I think I also am in a sorority. I'm a member of Delta Sigma Theta sorority, Incorporated. So it's One of the sororities in the divine nine, and it's very interesting to see how different we are. I think One thing that I'm interested in is kind of bridging that gap. I think right now there's a disconnect connect between some of the white fraternities, white sororities, and the black sororities and fraternities on grounds. And so I think something that would be beautiful to see in the upcoming years would be kind of just like, conversations, difficult conversations that need to be had between these, because I feel like, in a way, greek life is kind of the head of the social sphere of the University of Virginia. So it's like we, as the leaders, can kind of start bridging these gaps, and the rest will follow. And then kind of the culture that's happening here at UVA can become altered in a way that allows for, like, more understanding of all backgrounds to be able to come together and be who they are, like you said, but coexist in a way that is productive. So I definitely agree with you for sure.

18:35 Well, good. I mean, I think it's time. I think you're at a perfect time in your life and junction in your life to start having those hard conversations, and they will be hard. It depresses me sometimes to talk to guys my age that were from Chattanooga, Tennessee, where life down. We think life here is reminiscent of the old south. But when you get to the old south, you really realize that things have changed, but not to the point where they need to change. And that's a mighty big task. But starting at your point in life is, I think, is going to be the key. It's the key to everything. It's a key to understanding technology and science and human nature and so forth and so on, is starting early, as opposed to, you should have fun. My goodness, I've had so much. I've had so much fun in my life. It's just a crime how much fun I've had. And yet. And yet, I think that's part of my issue, too, sometimes, is that people see me as mister good time. Let's have a beer and yuck. Yuck. A little bit. And, you know, look at the pretty girls and that sort of thing. And, you know, I don't mind saying that that's, that's been a lot of, you know, the socialization. I owned a bar for 20 years, you know, owned a restaurant bar for 20 years, so. But I think they look at me sometimes like, what's going on with him? And, you know, why does he want to defund the police? His dad was a policeman. No, no, I don't, I don't want to defund the police. I want to charge you more taxes so that we can pay the police a living wage so that they don't have to live in another county. So, you know, hearing you come from Goochland, and I, of course, know where Goochland is. In fact, guts was on the radar today for. What's the high school in Goochland?

20:28 High school.

20:29 It is good to high school. So what's the other county I'm thinking about that has. I would, I was, Langley's team, played a team right there. There's a shopping center now down when you go down, not the Powhite Parkway, but maybe 295. What is that? High school?

20:50 Yeah. Oh, my goodness.

20:52 I know.

20:53 So Louisa is closer to us. So I'm thinking it might be. I'm awful with directions.

21:00 It's right. You know, there's a shopping center that south of Richmond, cross the river.

21:05 Yeah. Is it in Chesterfield?

21:06 Chesterfield. It might be Chesterfield county. What's that, high school?

21:11 Oh, it could be either Thomas Dale or.

21:16 You said it, I'll know it.

21:19 I don't, I don't fully know, but I know exactly where the location is because we def, we ran them in track as well. I ran track in high school, so.

21:28 Well, I gotta tell you, you know, Langley's team, uh, played them in the state playoffs a couple of times, actually. And I was, I was, I gotta say, I was not shocked, but I was, I was a little bit befuddled. Lacrosse tends to be a predominantly white sport still, even though it, even though that's changing. But I was amazed. This school is obviously just a, um, you know, it was all white, and they all looked like they were doing pretty good to me. I mean, you know, in the, in the judgment scale here. Sorry, I can't, I can't help but notice these kind of things anymore because it's such part of my fiber now when I, when I'm, when I'm looking at things, it's, it was definitely my hot button. I don't want to spend their whole time talking about that. But I do think. I do think that you should be very proud and very active and very involved in your involvement with a sorority. Now, is your sorority, is it mixed? Does it have white and black girls in it? Does it have Asians, et cetera? Is it pretty much a melting pot sorority?

22:49 No, it's not. It's predominantly african american women. I mean, obviously, we don't discriminate, and there are a few. Not in my chapter right now, but, like, nationally, there have been some white. Some white women in the sorority, but it focuses primarily on the african american community. And so we kind of look at uplifting the black community in Charlottesville. But I think One thing that's important is to recognize the other cultures that are existing around us and having conversations with them, like I said, and kind of fostering this community. So, for sure, good. Yeah.

23:28 Well, you know, again, progress has been made, but in my book, that there's still a long way to go. So I'm glad you guys are having those conversations. And, you know, I really, honestly, I've got a guy that just moved back to Charlottesville that went here in the late sixties. By the way, if you ever get a chance, there's a book out there called. I'll have to try and remember it. Maybe Riley's heard of it, but it's written by a UVA grant named Joel Gardner. Joel Gardner was from. Was from Long Island, New York. And most of the guys at his school, most of the. I don't know if there were women at his high school, to be honest with you. I think he was in a public school, but he ended up coming to UVA because he didn't get into any of the Ivy League schools. So he comes to UVA and he happens to be here during the last four years of all white, all male UVA outside of the nursing school. And maybe the Ed school had allowed some women at that point in time. So he wrote this book, which I think would be an interesting read for you, from rebel yell to revolution or something of that nature. Joel Gardner. I'll try to figure out how to get that info to you. But, yeah, of course, I was disappointed because I thought the book. He was also jewish. Okay, so he's a jewish white guy coming to UVA and joined two jewish fraternities. And so I don't know if those two fraternities still exist. But. But, you know, I was also at UVA when all the sororities first started, tried, dealt and so forth. I came I can't remember the names.

25:07 Of them, but they're still here.

25:11 They're still here. So. So, you know, sounds like we still have some work to do there. But. But, you know, it sounds like you guys are bringing that to the forefront. Not only that, but being involved in the. In the local community.

25:27 Right. Right. I think it's important to do everything. I mean, as long, and this is my, like, motto with everything that I do, is just to do it with love. I think if you can do difficult things, do things that you might not want to do, as long as it's with love first. I think that's when progression and movement will happen. And so that's One thing that I try to push, and it's difficult because sometimes, like, you have to disagree with people that you normally agree with. And it's like those conversations are, I think, what's hardest, because you have people that are in your corner that you kind of feel the same way, but then it's like sometimes they do things that you don't necessarily agree with. And it's important to not to make sure that you kind of become your own voice and you don't become attached to the collective idea, because we are not a monolith. I think we all have our own identity. And so making sure that you stay true to yourself, of course, out of love, but calling people out when they're wrong, like you said before, just holding yourself accountable. So things of that nature, I think that's. Those are other ways that we can continue to just, like, push for change, like you said.

26:33 Right. Well, and I didn't finish that story. Thanks for bringing me full circle back around to it. So I saw, I saw. I can't remember. I think it was on an email chain. I don't. Are you aware of the. Of the Jefferson council, I think they call it.

26:47 I'm not aware, no.

26:48 Okay, good. Well, I'm glad you're not. To some degree. The Jefferson council actually is group that was formed, and One of the. I know several of the people that are members there. One of them was at UVA when I was there. Now he's on the board of visitors, a guy named Bert Ellis. And I think this guy that sent me this, that sent me, for some reason, I'm on the list, I think it's just because I'm an old white guy, quite frankly, and I know these people. But you know, the. By the way, I might add, I'm an old white guy privilege. And any old white guy that thinks they are not a privileged white guy is absolutely wrong. That's between you and me. We can spread that word with love sometime to others. And I would love for you at some point, to consider having a conversation with this One particular gentleman whose son was head of cybersecurity for Trump, who was let go because he certified. He said that the election was good. I don't turn this all about politics, but it is, you know, it is how we. How we approach these subjects. You can either approach them with an argumentative standpoint, or you can know your stuff. If you know, if you start knowing your stuff, then all of a sudden that that conversation can end pretty quickly. And he was talking about critical race theory. And I said, well, and I went to the Ed school at UVA I was supposed to be a teacher and a coach. And they don't have CRT embedded in the curriculum at the curry school. They don't teach CRT in the public schools in Virginia. And that this guy's putting these cartoons out there that alluded to that. And I took exception to it, and I just went, got back to me, said, hey, how you doing? I hope you're doing well. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, trying to be nice. And then, and then you said, I got two teachers. One teaches in the city and One teaches in the county. Nobody. That CRT is not a part of the curriculum. And so until we start having those conversations head on and feeling especially like we come from a position of. I don't want to say authority, but a position of knowledge, then you, then you've got somewhere to go. So I would love to get this guy sometime and meet you for a cup of coffee somewhere, if you're comfortable doing any of that. Or come to your sorority and sit on the front porch or sit on the back porch or sit in somebody's living room and have that conversation.

29:26 Have a conversation.

29:27 Because I think this guy, I think these people have to understand that it's not woke. This is not a woke thing. That's just another bell whistle or whatever they call it. That dog whistle, I think they call it. That particular political party has brought to the forefront a little scary how many people are uneducated. Pardon me? I can't think of another way to say it. Ignorant might be a little harsh. And certainly I'm trying to lean more in your direction with the. With coming from the position of love.

30:09 I understand, though.

30:10 No, I think those conversations. I think those conversations have to happen. And until. And you may or may not want to read that book, but I think it's an interesting book. It turned out to be. This guy's a lot more conservative than I thought he was. He started out thinking, okay, I'm a jew and an all white, all male, you know, university in the south. My God, in the south, right. Never forget, I had a guy from New Jersey, and I lived in Eccles my first year, and I had a guy from Jersey right across the hall from me, and he eventually left. I think he thought there was something really strange and weird about. About southern universities. I don't know.

30:49 Maybe not.

30:50 Maybe we scared.

30:52 I definitely agree with you, though. I think that would be amazing to kind of sit down and make that an event for us to, and open that up to the public just to hear this conversation be made, just to let people think in a different way that they might not have thought and then see where other people are coming from. Of course, in a respectful way, but just kind of having these conversations and doing it in a way that's very public. So I love that idea, and I'm thankful for you that you proposed it. I'm interested in knowing. I have to ask what your thoughts are on, or if you are, if you know what's going on on the UVA at the ground level with the noose at the homer statue and the letters that were attached, how do you feel? What are your thoughts about what's been going on on ground?

31:34 I mean, I've heard. I heard it on the news last night. I'm not sure. I don't think, based on what I've heard so far, they don't think it was any sort of hate thing. Can you refresh me? Tell me exactly what it was and maybe your perspective. I'll give you mine.

31:55 Yeah. Okay. So about, I guess, three weeks ago now, somebody left a. Like, a physical noose on the homer statue. And so it was found at like, 04:00 in the morning. And so then there was an email that was sent out saying that there's a noose. And I think it ended up being deemed a hate crime. But later on in the week there, or later, later on in the oncoming weeks, there was talk that there were also letters attached to this news. And we were, as a black student population, we were very scared. We felt very uncomfortable being on grounds because we felt as if we weren't getting all of the information we already were. Felt scared and anxious that there's a noose being left on grounds. And so that is in its own an issue. But then knowing that there are these letters that haven't been identified or given to the rest of UVA student body and the facility, the faculty. It just had a scared that, like, people were with keeping information. And so that was a time of fear for a lot of black members in the black community. We even assembled as a coalition to kind of work against these. So we had a lot of, like, silent protests, a lot of, like, meetings, debriefs about what was going on, just to figure out a way to cope with what's going on on grounds. The letters apparently said, tick tock on them, like, tick tock, like a clock. And so that they finally did get addressed, that there were letters attached. And so I think that just scared a lot of us and had a lot of fear. But of course, we stood together as a black student body and tried to just exist still on this area, in this school, even though all of these things were going on. And so today, actually, they just released who the person was. So it's slowly ending, but it was what they think it was a hate crime. And it was something that kind of just, like, stirred the pot for a lot of people. I think as a black student, One of the things that was the most difficult for me was having to fight this with other members of the black community, of course. But then going to school and then having my white classmates have no idea about what's going on and just kind of living their lives. And I think that's something that hurt a lot was just to see how, like, we're so polarized and we're so different of the things that we are having to go through on grounds is completely just not even acknowledged. I mean, it's obviously nobody's fault, but it's just the fact that they're two different. We're kind of living two different worlds at the same university is something that's really crazy to me, and I think that's why I'm so excited or so passionate about just, like, fellowship with various backgrounds so that these stories can be shared and, like, true feelings can be shared about what's going on so that we can kind of do something about it, you know?

34:51 Well, I think it's always, first of all, I didn't know there was a noose involved. And I'm trying to remember, you know, if they had deemed it a hate crime or not. But they did find the person who was responsible.

35:04 Yes, they did. They did today. And so all the information is becoming released now. But it was. It was. There was. There were other things as well. There was, like, vandalization or. Yeah, to One of the african american buildings on Dawson's road. That wasn't a hate crime. But, yeah, there was something else with the news that made it a hate crime, so it was just. And it was so early in the year, so we just wanted to make sure that, I mean, UVA has a history of having not so nice events happen on ground, so we just wanted to make sure that, like, we were aware of what could be happening again and kind of just. Yeah. Finding ways to combat these issues.

35:46 I think you guys need to explore avenues where you can say the things you just said to me, and I will help facilitate that in any way that I can. I will be part of that dialogue, and I have lots of other folks that would Step up and be a part of that dialogue because people don't know what is going on. I hate to say it. It's like these generational racism that. That until the tide fully swings, you know, those are the right. You know, but. But to hear you say that you and some of your friends or sorority sisters or classmates were actually worried and scared. More people need to hear that, Kennedy More people need to know that that's the case. But it also needs. In my. This is my opinion, it needs to have a collective front. It needs to have just not young black women at the University of Virginia, because there's a certain amount of population, right. Excuse me. That thinks, you know, it's just angry, you know, activism and so forth and so on. It needs to be. It needs to be, like you said, delivered with love and contextualized, because there's. If there. If anybody's a parent and they know their daughter, especially regardless of color, if they know their daughter feels threatened or feels, you know, you should not feel threatened. It's just like going to high school yesterday for those people in St. Louis. No One should feel threatened that somebody's going to walk in that building with a. With a automatic weapon and start shooting people. And with school teacher, two school teacher daughters, it's certainly something that I think about. And by the way, my other daughter lives in London, and she's a human rights lawyer, and I just talked to her today about One of her most recent. About One of her most recent cases. And, uh. Yeah, so, you know, I didn't have a lot of choice, but. But I was on that. I was on that path anyway, and they just, uh, accelerated my, um. And I don't know that I have a big voice, but I know a lot of people in. And when you start taking a stand with some people, you eventually get other people to pipe up that normally would not be talking about it, you know? And so that's, that's One of the things, you know, One of the things I'm passionate about is I've already said.

38:36 Your voice definitely matters. I think it starts Small and then it gets, it gets larger. But I think it starts with you being passionate about speaking to whoever will be willing to listen. And then, you know, you kind of just move forward with there. You kind of gain people as a collective and do that. But I agree. I think it's definitely a collective effort. It can't just be done by us. So we need to realize that, like, we need the people that are in authority right now to help us, because if we just sit here and kind of fight against them, nothing's going to be done. So we need to look to those that are in power as a way to kind of work with them, not against, and push forward what we're trying to achieve. So. For sure.

39:15 And I think you do that by killing them with kindness, as they say. You know, that.

39:22 You say kill them with kindness. Yes.

39:24 You know, because a lot of people aren't even thinking along those lines. Some people are going, oh, how horrific. Somebody put a noose on Homer statue. And, and then there are some people are going, you know, well, we ought to put a noose up there. I mean, that's the scary part, you know, and we're all, we're all part of that. You know, we don't want, I mean, I'm scared we're going to have a civil war between the extremes on both sides of political parties, you know.

39:51 Yeah.

39:52 So, and which brings up another whole topic, which is making sure you and your, and your, and your associates and your friends and your sorority sisters and your classmates vote, you know, and get out there and vote and don't be. I think apathy is what I was, apathetic. I mean, I've always voted because I am an american and I do believe in my rights to vote. And so I do believe. But I also know that as Americans, we've done a lot of crappy things through history, you know, both through our own people as well as, as well as people around the world. And so, you know, that's One thing we, you know, we need to, you know, we need to make sure that your generation, especially, is not apathetic, that, that apathy is start, is on the way out the door because it's easy, because you got a life, you're social, you're happy, you're studying, you're hanging out with your friends, you're doing, doing things, going to sporting events and lectures and so forth and so on. Well, why should I worry about voting? Voting is just so crucial. And until that seed gets established or reestablished, things won't change because we're putting a lot of people up there on both sides, that once you get there, their only goal is to stay there.

41:14 Exactly. That's very true.

41:16 And, you know, it's, and I think that's why Trump got elected, quite frankly, because, you know, there are a lot of people that think like he does in the, in the truest sense, but he got elected because he was promising to drain the swamp, remember? Well, we got it. We got to get the people, we got to get the swamp people by their ears and make them listen to the fact that here, here's what the, here's what the story is anyway. I'll shut up. I get going on that. You can tell I'm passionate about this, but I really, really do. I want to. I mean, One of the things I did when Covid hit is I got six or seven of my contemporaries, including a couple people from UVA and then I got six or seven black contemporaries that I grew up with in Charlottesville. And we met at Rose Hill, we met at Washington park, over on Rose Hill Drive, I mean, not Rose Hill Drive, over by Shenandoah Joe's on Preston Avenue, if you know where.

42:12 Yeah, I used to live, yeah, I.

42:14 Used to live when I was a, when I was a kid, as a white boy, you did not go to Washington park unless you wanted to get beat up. Okay? So it was a little bit symbolic from that standpoint. And we all brought our chairs and socially distanced and we talked about how it was growing up where we each grew up and about and about the relationships with One another. And I'll save that story from some for another time. But One of my friends that I went to once we were integrated, and I went, I finished elementary school and went to middle school and then, or they called it junior high school at the time. And then the high school, you know, was someone that I stayed in touch with. And I don't, you know, we're not calling each other to have dinner every other weekend, but, you know, it's nice that we stay in. I'm having lunch tomorrow with a guy who's spitting my face in the 6th grade.

43:07 Look at that.

43:08 For a black guy named Dick Dickerson. And I'm having lunch with him tomorrow. And Dick lives in Richmond now, but he lived in Alabama, and he makes it a point when he comes to town to say, hey, let's go have lunch. And, and we go have lunch. And we have, we have terrific conversations about a lot of stuff. Not, not, not, not just, you know, not just race anyway.

43:28 Right.

43:30 I see our moderator is back.

43:32 Yes. Hi, moderator. Hey, guys. Well, we're in about roughly the last ten minutes of the conversation, so I just wanted to ask some concluding questions to kind of get the ball rolling in that department. But is there anything about your partner that surprised you today? Were they who you expected them to be? Well, David I think seeing where you grew up and seeing where you're from, I think I was surprised at the way that you kind of, or I guess I was surprised at your passions. I think it was a beautiful surprise to see that our passions kind of align with each other coming from such different backgrounds. And I think that's very inspirational for other people that I see and kind of would base what they think off of where they're from. So I think that's something that surprises me today.

44:32 I didn't really know what to expect, to be quite honest with you. And I'm pleasantly surprised to meet you, Kennedy And I'm pleasantly surprised to know that you come from a very rural community in a very rural county, Goochland county, and here you are at the big university of Virginia, and you're making a difference, in my opinion. And so I was very surprised, you know, nothing, you know, One of us, One of the things that we as humans can do is we can make a lot, we can have a lot of preconceived notions about people that we see based on their color, how they look, what car they drive, you know, what kind of neighborhood they live in, et cetera, et cetera. And, I mean, I'll be honest with you, Kennedy Carter I didn't expect a young, vivacious, smart african american woman to pop up on the screen. So it just look at that, being totally frank with you, that that's, and I really think if you, if you are, if it is something you grow comfortable with, I would love to explore with your sorority sisters and with some of your friends and classmates that you made. I would really love to explore a little more on this dialogue. It doesn't have to be, you know, it can be One One more time or it can be every second month that, you know, whatever time works and just sit down and let me bring a few people and sit down and open their eyes to the fact that we have these wonderful people like you at the University of Virginia that are. That are spreading some love and trying to make this a better place for us, as opposed to whomever the idiot was that hung a noose on Homer's statue.

46:26 No, for sure. I think we would love to host this conversation and have multiple of them. I think they're extremely important. I'll relay the message back, but I'm thankful for the time that we were able to have today just to sit down and get to know each other a little bit. A little bit more than surface level, for sure. So thank you so much for sharing about yourself. I hope you learned something else or something about me that you didn't know, which I'm pretty sure you did, as you said. So thank you so much for everything. Definitely was a. It was a great time and a great learning experience.

46:56 I've got to ask you One question on our list. Okay. If we still have time, who has been the most influential person in your life?

47:05 Yeah, I love that question. I actually wrote about that for my scholarship that I have. And I wrote about my brother. My brother. I have an older brother who is 27 years old who lives in Richmond, and he went to VCU. And he's probably One of the smartest people I know. Even though he does some pretty stupid things, he's very, very wise with the way that he thinks. And so I think my brother Quincy has been the most, and still is the most influential person that I met. He's kind of grounded me and given me the, I guess, starters of sparks that make me inspired to do things. And also just the way that he approaches life is very similar to mine. I think he serves as a great mentor to help me deal with things like this, where I might be doing something. I'm not used to getting out of my comfort zone, but doing it to kind of develop myself better and also doing it in a way where fear is not. Fear is not the thing that you need to be having. Fear is, like, with fear comes growth, I think, with conquering your fear. And so he's kind of just served as a trailblazer and a mentor. That kind of pushes me to also do the same thing. So I think that's who my most influential person is. What about you? I'm very interested to know this as well.

48:24 You know, I've never given that a ton of thought, but I think probably my father. My father was the youngest of 14 children. He grew up in Franklin County, Virginia, down near Farum, where farm University is very rural. He ended up in Charlottesville at the Miller School of Albemarle, which at the time was a military school for either widow, for either widowed children of widows, or single parent boys. It was a tough place to go to school. But all the guys that I know from there, that graduated from there, like my father, that was a life changing event for them to go to middle school. But I watched my dad. I watched my dad be. Enjoy himself when the time was right, work hard his entire life. He's what, he's the guy that drove my brother and I into sports. So I'll always thank him for that because that definitely was a game changer for me, I think. I'm pretty sure I would have gone to college, probably. But who knows? I mean, it was a lot easier getting into UVA as a football player than it was as a regular. So I commend you for. I commend you for that and realize that the kids that get into the colleges like UVA the or universities like UVA these days are truly special and gifted people. And I hate to say it, nothing makes me a little bit happier than to hear somebody with a lot of money whose kid didn't get into UVA who's. Who's pissed off about it. Pardon my friend. You know, it is a Small shift in the direction in which hopefully, we are. We are taking, and I think the more interactions we have, the better. But I would say my dad, he worked hard. He had fun. He was a cop. He put his life on the line every day. I had a guy come up to me at his funeral and say, you know, your dad arrested me in 1968, and I thought, damn, and you came to his funeral in, you know, 2007 or something. I mean, come on, it's got to tell you a little bit about your father. But he didn't. Despite the fact that growing up poor and white, I think maybe that contributed to the fact that he just liked people, and he didn't care if you black, white, or yellow or green or what you were or woman or not a woman or some of the other stuff that we're going through these days. Yeah, gender stuff. So, anyway, listen, I'm going to count on you and rally to carry on this conversation if you're comfortable with it in some fashion. And I would like to open the doors to get some of these hard headed, old privileged white dudes that I've known for a long, long time engaged with not just you and your sorority sisters, but just the people at UVA period. Because I think it's an amazing place that, that should not, should not have students being worried about their own safety with, with regards to some, some ignoring ignoramus, putting the noose up or anything else of that matter.

51:53 So I agree for sure.

51:55 I really, I've really enjoyed it. I hope I haven't talked too much. I'm really good at

51:58 No, it was great. Thank you so much again for sharing. I think it was a great conversation. I think we both learned a lot for sure.

52:04 Yes, absolutely.