Kevin [No Name Given] and Adilene [No Name Given]

[00:05] KEVIN: Hi, Addie. My name is Kevin. I'm 59 years old, and the date is May 23, 2022. I am in the StoryCorps virtual recording booth, and I'm here with you, Addie my one small step conversation partner.

[00:25] ADILENE: Hello. My name is Adilene I go by Addie I am 31 years old. The date is May 23, 2022. I am in the story corp virtual recording booth, and I am here with you, my one small step conversation partner.

[00:50] KEVIN: Addie why did you want to do this interview today?

[00:54] ADILENE: So, it's. I had a professor at Fresno City, and I just kind of thought that it's kind of cool to meet people from all over the world. I mean, I don't know where you're from. I am from California, Fresno. And so I was hoping that I get somebody from, you know, out of state just because I wanted to see, you know, your point of view of other stuff and my point of view of other things.

[01:24] KEVIN: So maybe I meet two thirds of your one third, one third of your desire or hope, which is I spend about a third of the year now at my home in Costa Rica, but I happen to live in Hollywood Hills, so I'm actually not too far from you.

[01:46] ADILENE: Oh, okay. I see. Well, at least, you know, you're from Costa Rica, or you travel there.

[01:53] KEVIN: No, I travel there.

[01:55] ADILENE: Oh, nice.

[01:56] KEVIN: I consider it my second home.

[01:58] ADILENE: Nice. Okay.

[02:04] KEVIN: I wanted to do this because, and I actually mentioned this to Julia when we spoke over the weekend. In preparation for today, I was hoping to speak to someone who was radically different than me in many, many different ways, politically, religiously, economically, you name it. So that I could honestly almost even practice listening to somebody with very different views and not react, because I, in my personal life, find myself listening to NPR and Fox and this, that, and the other and thinking to myself, oh, my God, these folks stir up a lot of emotions. And I talk to myself and I talk to my spouse, and I'm, like, having conversations with nobody over my frustration. And I do have a friend who is very different than me politically, and I am finding it more and more difficult to sit down over coffee and lunch with him because of that. So I was hoping that there was going to be actually huge diversity or distinction between us. Although I read your bio and I kind of think, although this is an assumption, and Julia warned us about assumptions, I read your bio, and I kind of thought maybe we're not so different.

[03:45] ADILENE: Okay. Yeah, I don't. I'm very open minded, so I, like, I respect everyone's decision of who they are. Who they want to become and who they want to be. I mean, the reason. Well, at the same time, reason why I wanted to join this is because I also have a spouse that, you know, right now, it's a huge controversy of things that I myself have done, and I don't really talk about it because it. It brings a lot of pain and so. And a lot of regret as a woman. But I, you know, living with somebody that thinks the opposite from me, and it's okay to think different, but, you know, having those beliefs kind of makes me look at that person different. I mean, I. I. I'm very open minded, like I said. But, um, it just. Things that we have done, um, kind of makes me a little bit disappointed. But, you know, there's nothing that we can, um. I can't change. I can't change him. I can't, um. I can't. I can't think for him. So this is one of the reasons why I decided to do this, because it's, you know, seeing other people's point of view.

[05:10] KEVIN: And if I may ask you, do you mean politically? He has different views?

[05:17] ADILENE: Yes, politically. One of the huge controversy was one of right now, which is, you know, women's rights towards abortion. And like I mentioned, it's something that I don't ever open about, and this is my very first time opening about this, and so this is why I always have. That's why I'm very open minded, because there's things that we have done we can't. You know, I can't say that I haven't done it, but there's regrets within those. Yeah.

[05:56] KEVIN: Thank you.

[05:57] ADILENE: You're welcome.

[05:58] KEVIN: Are you okay if I proceed with your bio?

[06:01] ADILENE: Yeah, of course. Go ahead.

[06:03] KEVIN: Okay. My name is Adilene I go by Addie. I was raised in Fresno, California, since the age of five years old. I was born in Ensenada, Mexico. I am currently attending Fresno City College. I'm hoping to graduate with a paralegal certificate in the year 2023. Congratulations. Being an undocumented student was tough at the beginning. The bullying I was getting from my peers, not being able to understand the language, I overcame all these obstacles. I'm currently separated from my husband. We have two children, and we co parent two.

[06:51] ADILENE: Okay. Okay. I am a social liberal, officially. Is that what it says? Fiscally, physically, conservatively religious gay men. He him, who often sounds like a contradiction in values to some of mine. Mostly liberal friends and family. I grew up fairly privileged, with well educated, highly paid parents who taught me the value of hard work and money by letting me pay my things myself. I have a diverse education degree, history and economics, public health, medical psychology. The loss of my grandmother at a young age made me a highly empathetic person.

[07:49] KEVIN: Addie, is there. Should I go, Julia, or. It doesn't matter. Addie, is there something in my bio which I didn't remember that you'd like to know more about?

[08:02] ADILENE: Yeah, I do see that you are a gay man. And, I mean, how did you grow up, you know, coming out?

[08:17] KEVIN: So I was. I consider myself gay now. I'm categorically, or if you will, biologically by bisexual. I dated girls up through high school and then into the beginning, beginning of college when I started dating guys as well. And, you know, it was easy enough to come out to my initially female friends, which is what a lot of gay men do. They feel they're going to be less judged and that their straight male friends are going to feel most uncomfortable. I really didn't have any issue coming out, but I'm also not particularly expressive or overtly demonstrative in being gay. A lot of people thought I was gay because of the way I talk, and interestingly enough, they assumed that. And I heard this multiple times. The way you. The way I pronounce words and articulate things just sounds gay to people. To some people. And then for my parents, I think I was about 23, and it was when I had my first long term boyfriend. And I first, while we were out to lunch, swung by my dad's office and introduced him to kind of like, see how my dad would react. And my dad had, like, no reaction. And he was a brazilian model who was a bit flamboyant in how he presented himself. And so I thought, dad will get it. And dad asked me after, later in the day, oh, is your friend gay? And I was the one who got all offended and was like, like, what? You have a problem with that? I can't believe it. I thought you were, like, a really open minded thinker. And he's like, I don't have a problem with it, but it sounds like you have a problem with me asking about you having a gay friend. I think a couple months later, I went up to my parents house. I had written out a script. Like I said previously, because of my learning disability, I. I wanted to kind of make sure that I hit certain points in telling them about being gay. And because my dad is kind of a hyper masculine guy, or he was. He's deceased, I thought he was going to be rejecting, and I thought my mom was going to be protective because that would have fit with their style. So I start reading the script and I get all emotional, and it's taking me like eight, nine minutes. And I'm still not telling them what's in front of me. And I'm crying. And this is quite funny. My dad finally leaps to his feet. He walks over to me and he puts his hands on my shoulders and he says, oh, my God, you have cancer. And I burst out laughing. And I said, cancer? He said, what's so difficult to tell us? And I said, I don't have cancer. I'm just gay. And he, and he went, oh, thank God. And he sat down, and that was my coming out. And my mom literally yelled out, I'm not going to have grandchildren. And that was my coming out experience with my friends and with my mom and daddy. So it actually, it was actually for conservative, in my mom's case, first generation and my dad's case, third generation Americans. It actually went way better than most stories back in the eighties when things are better now.

[12:21] ADILENE: Right. I feel like right now it's more of a open, you know, it's natural to see gay men, gay women, you know, bisexual. Yeah. But I mean, it's, it's an amazing story. I mean, I think that maybe your dad already knew. And he was just like, you know what? Let's just, let's just laugh it out. And, I mean, they're really a really nice story.

[12:45] KEVIN: Yeah. Thank you. Didn't bother them at all. And they, they, they were extraordinarily welcoming to both the women and the men that I dated and then to my current husband, who they treated equally. They went so far as to put him in their will to make, to treat him like their third son. So really amazing. It makes me a little broken up. I'm, I'm super curious about the challenges of coming to the country unlawfully and what you faced initially. And if you still, if you're, if you're comfortable with this, I mean, I don't want to put anybody in a position where, you know, you admit to something that you don't want to admit to, of course. But to the extent that you're comfortable talking about that back then and now, I'm really curious about your experience with that.

[13:58] ADILENE: Yeah. So I was five years old when I came into the United States. I can remember it was yesterday how I crossed the border. It was in the van. I was in the front seat because I was so skinny. And so I was able to kind of squeeze, like, in the passenger side, where you put your feet at. At the bottom, right there. I ended up, you know, hiding under there from. From ice. And then my brothers were in the back of the van, and, you know, they. They had it. They had thin cover. And so that was my traumatic experience. Of course, I've always asked my mom. Cause I don't remember much of, you know, when I was barely here. And she told me that we didn't like it. We didn't like it, that we always wanted to go back home with my grandma. And so throughout, you know, the years I had to go to school, I didn't like school. I still remember the first date of elementary school. I told everyone that I was from Mexico, and everybody laughed. My teacher even laughed at me. I just remember seeing everybody laughing. I didn't know why they were laughing, but as I got older, I understood, oh, maybe they were. You know, they were laughing at me because I didn't know the language. I came undocumented, and it. And that had kind of brought me into, like, maybe depression. I didn't know. My parents probably didn't know, but probably depression. When I was young, feeling out of place, I felt like I was alone. I always wanted to come home. I didn't want to be at school. I would always cry. And, you know, hearing your teacher laugh at you was. I didn't feel secure. And I had to. Had. I had to have another person help me. Like, it was like a teacher's aide, where she had to translate. But, you know, I grew out of that. The language. I understood it a little bit as I went. I studied hard. You did mention that you do have some kind of disability. I don't know if you have. I also. I don't like to say it that I do, but I feel like maybe sometimes I do. Maybe. Or this might be coming where my laziness comes in, where I don't like to read. There's. Sometimes there's words that I don't understand or there's things that I don't get sometimes. And I don't ask for the extra help. I kind of just struggle on my own. They did tell me that I was dyslexic when I was younger, which I always thought that that was wrong because I said, if you know your b's from your d's or any of that, I know them, but, I mean, I never grew up from that. Where they said that you're. When you take the SAT test or a state test, but if you pass it, you know, you're considered already a professional at an english language, and so I never passed it. So I guess I'm not there yet. And so my brother did, and he got, like, a gold medal or whatever he got. And so I don't like to say, define myself as, like, a disability. I think I just call myself as a laziness of not wanting to read or write properly. So, I mean. But I mean, other than that, you know, coming into the US, I think it was a good choice. Maybe back then I didn't think about this, but now having this privilege of going to school for free, not city, because Fresno City or any kind of college or state degree that I want to go for, it's expensive and I have to pay out of pocket. Like, I did mention, I am married. My husband is a us citizen. And maybe about three years ago, we did try to talk to a lawyer where, you know, can he fix my documents? But I mean, that at that time was 14,000, and at that time, we just had a new porn and we didn't, we didn't have, or how to come up to it with that money. And I said, you know what? I am a deca Us citizen, or I'm a deca recipient. So I'm just gonna do that for right now and see, maybe in the long run, something will change. Something where I always say myself, I didn't get married to fix my documents. Maybe that's like, maybe an ego that I have, but I said that, no, I didn't get married to fix my documents. I have Daca, and I believe in it. Someday that will change where I can become a us citizen from being a US. A deca recipient.

[19:06] KEVIN: Your husband is american?

[19:09] ADILENE: Yes. Well, no, not. He's Mexican American.

[19:12] KEVIN: Oh, I'm sorry. He has, but he's. He's a citizen here. When we had four years of Donald Trump. And who knows if Biden isn't blowing it to infer my political leanings as a Democrat. Well, I'm actually independent, but more lean left. Aren't you worried that Donald Trump's going to come back or somebody who believes like him? Because that, that you're calling it DECA, right?

[19:51] ADILENE: Yes.

[19:52] KEVIN: That. That was already at risk under Trump the first time. I know that my husband is now an american citizen, but was born and raised in Mexico, and we would have conversations saying, my God, people must be scared to death because of this guy. I mean, he tried to get rid of it once. If he comes back, there's a lot of talk about getting rid of it again. Does that concern you? And does that drive you to think about what actions to take now while Biden's still there?

[20:35] ADILENE: You know, it is crazy that you asked me that question, but I am not scared. I'm not scared at all. I feel like. I feel like I'm very. I believe that nothing like that would happen. I strongly believe that my husband could put many petitions towards me to maybe keeping me here. Like, you did mention it was in the verge of not. Of getting rid of it. And I didn't know. I don't know if that was getting rid of DACA. All the people that applied for DAca, that I don't know. But I do know that I'm not scared. I'm hoping that this law hopefully will pass. And we did, my husband and I, we do talk here and there. He does mention, like, hey, let's put in your documents, let's do this, let's do that. And I said, no, not yet. You know, something would happen. You know, Daca will, you know, they'll eventually make us a us citizen. You know, that they were thinking about it not too long ago. I believe that they wanted to make tech people a us citizen. So I know, crossing my fingers, that nothing happens. But at the moment, to answer your question, I'm not worried about it. I don't live in fear. I do not. I don't live in fear. I mean, I have people that are police officers that I know, ice people. I know that they'll do their job. If they need to take me out, they'll take me out. But as in fear, I don't live in it. I don't think about it. I'm very positive that maybe one day we'll become us citizens to people who have. Dacaehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe.

[22:49] KEVIN: Do you want me to go first?

[22:51] ADILENE: Go ahead.

[22:54] KEVIN: Um. Oh, so my. So my heritage is really as a caucasian, eastern european male. My mom is romanian and became a citizen because she was born on the way over on a boat. My dad's side of the family is polish. And so you have a lot of farmers and laborers who come from, you know, in the. In the twenties, through the sixties, really, the forties came from agricultural businesses and all. And I. My parents both decided two things in particular. They took the position that with all the poverty that existed when they were young and they were born, they were both born kind of into poverty, that, one, they would not have children too early. They would ensure that they could afford to have children and provide for them, and secondly, that they would pursue education as a way out of poverty. And so they both did. So my mom, very early on, studied nursing and ended up getting the equivalent of her masters in nursing, back when that was very rare. And my father was a design engineer who studied mechanical and electrical engineering and then basically became an inventor. And they became wealthy because of my dad's work in particular, and because of his inventions. But they, they always remembered their, their roots and the challenges that folks without money or resources faced. And so, on one hand, I think that, like them, I am fiscally kind of conservative. I think we give away way too much money and tax people way too much. Especially the more you make, the more you get hit. And not only here in the US, but in Costa Rica, they do the same thing. My house is. If your house is 1ft bigger than the standard average house, you pay a luxury tax which doubles your property tax. And so I, you know, I'm blessed to be able to afford a second home, but at the same time, I'm really exhausted with all the taxes that my family pays. So I'm fiscally conservative, which leanshe certainly to the right and toward Republicans, but I am much more socially liberal. I believe that. And this, this comes not only from the way my parents raised me, but also comes from my christian values that say that every single individual has to be treated equally. You know, at least in the, in the eyes of God, everyone is treated equally. And whether you have money or education or in poverty or not, you're all equal. And that's how we're supposed to live our lives. So I've got these two almost contradictory values or beliefs that pull me in different ways. But to the extent that people must be treated equally, to the extent that we must both individually and societally help people who have less than us, I. That's a, that's a much stronger pull in the direction of my independent slash democratic political views than my republican views. So I also find it extraordinarily repugnant that people are not honest, that they. That they lie, that they use horrible terms. I am a doctor. I cannot stand. When Trump made the comments he made about individuals with, I'm not sure what the gentleman had, epilepsy, Parkinson's, whatever it may have been, but that just, you know, that was before he got elected. And that alone was enough for me to say, ah, well, I know who I'm not voting for, so that's how my political identity really developed. How about for you, Addie

[28:12] ADILENE: Now, you being a doctor, does that make you change your points of view of who you vote for? Or is it what they bring down to the table, what they can do for the people.

[28:26] KEVIN: No, I think it's really just what they can do for people. I mean, I'd be way better off. I'd be way better off with Republicans running the government, tax wise, financially, I mean, I'd be happy. But at some point in time, people often believe that money brings you happiness. And while it certainly provides you security and opportunities, it's really our relationships with people and our experiences, our shared experiences with people that bring happiness. Possessions only give you temporary satisfaction. So with that philosophy, and that's actually very well studied in the psychological research, with that being the case, I'd rather give up some of the money and see people be treated more equally than just say, well, you know, unlucky. You. You were, you, you were born to so and so, and you had a different life challenge. I mean, my husband was born into poverty. He became a private businessman and has done very, very well, but he still feels the same way. He's like, you know, I wish the government wasn't taking all our money. It angers him. But he says, but look, you know, I. How can I not count my blessings? And I think we have that same mindset that way.

[30:13] ADILENE: I mean, yeah, I totally agree. I think that coming here from having nothing, my parents having nothing, literally nothing, living in a trailer home, my mom was able to work her way up as well as my dad. But I can say that my mom has always showed me how to work a lot more, a lot harder, has always taught me that education has been our number one priority and to get away from poverty, and I mean, coming from nothing. And my mom now owns two properties. Working hard day and night has taught me to do the same thing. And I don't know why, but I always feel like I am on a timeframe. Like, right now, I'm 32. I'm going to be 32. And so I feel like, okay, mom, I don't have my house. I gotta have my house. You know, when I was married, I already, I had got one, but I sold it due to my separation. And so I was like, mom, I gotta get a house. You know, I feel so pressured, especially if everything is just going up so high, you know, it's a, you know, I feel pressured that I need to have something, and not just for me, but for my children. That's why you always think about my children, you know, where are we going to sleep? What are we going to do? I'm currently, I have, I was, I worked at a law firm office part time. And then I work at a restaurant as a waitress weekends. And so, and I said, mom, you know, I cannot let go of these two jobs because, one, it's my profession. Two, you know, working at a restaurant, you know, you get good tips, you make good money. My mom was able to buy two properties and in full on cash because of, because herself, she's a waitress. And, you know, they make good money. And, you know, you have to learn how to balance two jobs. My children and trying to get ahead and not live off the government because that's not who I came here for. You know, I came here to be better, to have that education, to become someone and to leave, you know, knowing my kids, to say, my mom was here, she came undocumented and she, she left this for us. Or, you know, not, not just a bypass where I just come and I don't do nothing and live off welfare or anything like that, which is okay if you need it, but, you know, there's a certain time where that needs to stop. You know, you got to go get a job. You got to go and work mentioned we have to pay taxes. I mean, so much gets out of deducted out of my, my taxes and due to Covid, you know, one thing that when my husband and I were still together, kind of got us upset is like, you know, they, he was trying to get some food stamps because he was laid off as well and they were counting my income. It's like, you don't count my inc. Why are you counting my income if I, you know, if I'm not getting no food stamps for, you know, for children and for him and they wanted to count my income and I said, well, that's very unfair. You know, you don't want to count me as part of, you know, of getting help, but you want to count my income. And I mean, it was, it's tough. It's hard, but what do we, what do I have to do? It's keep working. I can't let that stop me. And I'm. When I refuse to live off the government and, and I understand where you're coming from, where these taxes are coming from. I see my mom paying a lot of taxes for her property. I mean, just going to buying a cardinal, they put a Covid, you know, Covid release or some kind of money because I guess that they were backtrack and their, you know, taxes are just way up high. And a car that could have cost 35,000 not causes double that, you know, 45, 55. And it's crazy. I think that, you know, I think it's crazy. It's, it's absurd how, how taxpayers are just getting taxed. You know, I'm not considered low income, but I'm considered middle income. I'm a middle, a middle class person. And I said, how am I a middle class? I don't feel middle class. I feel like I don't have any money. I work so hard. I don't, I feel like I don't have any money. But, you know, it comes both ways. I feel like people just, our taxes are being used in ways that don't need to be used.

[34:55] KEVIN: Start off with, so, so what, what's your political identity?

[35:03] ADILENE: Like if I'm a Republican or a Democrat?

[35:05] KEVIN: Yeah. Left, right, center.

[35:08] ADILENE: I'm in more in the middle. I'm in the middle. I, I don't like to, I'm not very a political person. I listen to both parties. I mean, I think that I'm more of on the Democrat a little bit. Republicans, I know that they, I don't want to say, you know, take her money or anything, but I'm a little bit more on the Democrat side. How about you, you said you were on the both sides.

[35:42] KEVIN: Independent but leaning Democrat.

[35:47] ADILENE: Democrat, yeah. Yeah, me too. I think that they have their ups and downs.

[35:57] KEVIN: Oh, okay. One of the areas I have, I get super frustrated with is the political speak. You know, I listen to, I do watch on Sunday morning, the Fox News show. I jump between the shows. I watch Fox News. I listen to some aspects of Fox News, and I do so to kind of get a perspective of what folks who use that as a primary source of information, how they get indoctrinated. And then I listen to Democrats, the group that I fit in with more comfortably talk about the Republicans and the Democrats, and they do the exact same thing that the Republicans do. I mean, there's, I think there's greater diversity. There's less group think among Democrats than Republicans. But when I listen to NPR, I joke that every Sunday morning the alarm goes off and I wake up to NPR, KCRW here in LA, and I wake up and I always joke to my husband, oh, okay, here comes the five bad stories. Here's the five stories about how one's going to be, the Republicans are doing something wrong. One's going to be, oh, these poor people who through their own, through their own fault, dug themselves a hole. But now the government isn't doing what it's supposed to do to make everything better, you know? And so I hear the same junk, crap from the Democrats, as I hear from the Republicans. And then I talk to some folks. And for example, for example, the abortion issue. I mean, from a religious perspective, I am, I'm episcopalian. Episcopalians are similar to Roman Catholics, but without a pope and in other ways much more liberal. We have women priests, we have gay priests. I was married in my church in Pasadena, but I listened to Democrats talk about abortion, and it's like, well, you know, abortion under any circumstance at any time. And I think that's just as bad as Republicans saying abortion never even under incest and rape. So I just, I'm trying more and more to get away from listening to politics because I find it so corrosive and so manipulative on both sides.

[38:56] ADILENE: Right. I mean, like it was mentioned earlier, that's one of the huge issues that right now it's going on with women's rights. It's like I've even mentioned in class, you know, who are you to tell me what to do with my body just because a church states that it's bad, you know, we don't think about is this child going to be born in poverty? Is this child, not only that, but is the women, you know, as you mentioned, you are a medical psychology. Is a woman afterwards going to feel okay, you know, mentally, emotionally? I know that there's postpartum, which some women do go through it tough, tough. And some, it's hard to deal with. And with that, it's, it's, no one should have, at least in my opinion, no one should have that right from that woman, from a woman's body, because you don't know if they're mentally okay to say, yes, I am okay to have a child, you know, or am I ready? Am I emotionally ready? That's why many kids get abused, sexually abused, mentally abused, physically abused. You don't think about those stuff at that moment that I had my choice, wasn't my choice to bring a child when I'm not ready. I was not ready. And yes, I do agree that. Was I ready to have sexual intercourse? Yes, I was ready. I was very negligent on not protecting myself. Very negligent. And so, you know, at that moment, I felt a lot of resentment towards myself of what I had done. But at the same time, I know I wasn't ready. I know that. And mentally, I know that I was not going to be okay. And so there's a lot of regret that I did. And now that I have my two children, I do think about it. I mean, the first time, it just kind of killed me. I was just, you know, why? You know, why did I do it? But, I mean, I did it because I knew at that moment I was not ready. And for that, I mean, women get raped. They don't. And so why not do it? You know, it's a fetus that possibly, I don't know, we might not know if it has feelings. And I just think that women's rights should be just like anybody. If it's something this. If you're not happy, okay, what makes you happy? Be with another person, same sex. What makes me happy is being with a Mandev. So who is anybody to stop me from being happy, from being, you know, set, from being ready, which is the main. The main purpose. And as a medical, do you feel that? What do you think, your point of view?

[42:33] KEVIN: Well, so from med school, we know that there is a point in time at which the embryo is, in fact, a fetus, and the fetus does feel pain. Right. Which is why I'm actually supportive of banning abortion at a certain third trimester. I actually agree with that because we know that. That that fetus can live, I think. So that just from a medical perspective, I think that the issue is so complex, and we don't seem to be able to get all the key stakeholders together to talk about how to address it, because there are plenty of people, especially Latinos and Latinas, I should say, who, in fact, are told by the church that, you know, well, it's a sin to. By the Catholic Church, it's a sin to have premarital sex. And if you have premarital sex and you get pregnant, you better not have an abortion. And at the same time, so they struggle with the realities of biology, which is that the vast majority of men and women are going to have premarital sex. I mean, almost 100% we know that from multiple sociological studies, and then they're saying, don't do that. But if you get pregnant, don't have an abortion. Well, you know, you need to have the religious community and the medical community and the societal community and the economic community, the stakeholders that represent all these perspectives at the table having a dialogue about how do we prevent unintentional pregnancies in the first place so that we don't end up in a position where women are forced to make a horrifically difficult decision. And at the same time, I do think from a medical perspective, irrespective of religious, that, you know, the third trimester roughly, and it's a little earlier than that. You know, it probably should be banned because there's a living organism that, and I don't mean it has a soul, although I believe that that doesn't matter, but that it is, it is viable. And that's kind of problematic, you know, so I'm conflicted. I do think that I can hold, I can personally say I don't support abortion, but I can just as readily say I also don't believe that I should take that religiously based belief and force it upon anyone.

[45:42] ADILENE: Right. Yeah. And to answer Julia's question, nothing was said. It was kind of kept between me and my spouse. It was my choice. My mom, you know, speaking towards then my sister ended up getting pregnant as well. And my mom clearly kind of just told her, you know, if you didn't want the child, you should have had an abortion. But just don't let tell me, you know, you did it. And so my mom, I can probably say, if I were to tell her, would she, would she be upset? Maybe. Maybe be upset, but then I would give her my reasons. But as for right now, no one knows except my, you know, my spouse and now you guys. And so for that reason, I don't talk about it much because I don't want to be judged. I don't. But, you know, it is story corp, and it's something that I think that I can bring out to the table and for other people that might be listening that if it ever happens, you know, it happens. Of course. I feel like there's, sometimes, there's a limit, you know, happens once. Okay, accidents happened twice. Okay. Maybe not so much. And so it's, it's something that I kind of kept a secret, you know, and it's, it's always going to be a secret. And so, yeah, maybe in the future, if my kids have kids, I'll let them know, you know, from my experience, I regret it. So it's a mistake that I made, but I can't, there's no way I can go back. I learned from it.

[47:40] KEVIN: Yeah. So you have to let it go at some point in time.

[47:44] ADILENE: Yes. And it was very hard at the beginning, but now I've learned how to let go. I hear in the other states that I do remember, but, yeah.

[47:59] KEVIN: Was there anything, I mean, you didn't know much about me prior to us speaking for, you know, just under an hour, but was there anything that surprised you about me?

[48:12] ADILENE: Oh, yeah. I mean, when I read your bio, it surprised me that you have history in economics, public health and medical. Psychologically. I mean, did you feel like you had to get all these degrees because due to your parents having very high degree.

[48:32] KEVIN: I love being in school. I always joke with friends and family that if I could be an undergraduate student taking one degree after another after another, I would do so. But there's also a slightly unconscious motivation, which is, when I was young and I was struggling with learning disabilities, which were not diagnosed in the sixties, other than, oh, he's hyperactive, because I learned how to overcome that. And. And people said to me, wow, you're not going to succeed. Well, to. To be, you know, to go to medical school and graduate school and graduate school five times and get all these degrees was a way, I think, of proving to people and proving to myself that you can overcome a learning disability. So I think that's what drove that.

[49:31] ADILENE: Now, I don't think that. I didn't ask you, but do you mind me asking you, what disability do you have?

[49:38] KEVIN: So I'll give you the simple version of it. It's a receptive learning processing disorder. So when I read material, I have to reread the same sentence upwards of three times. I can. By the time I get to the end of a sentence, I may have lost the. I may find it difficult to construct the meaning of the sentence if I don't read it again. And so if I'm reading a medical text, I would have to read it multiple times while my friends could read it once. And that was one of the reasons why I learned that if I jotted down keywords as I read, aside from highlighting, of course, I could then look at that material and it would reinforce it and it would stay in my memory. And I've had add since I. Attention deficit disorder. It's very, very, very difficult for me to maintain my attention. I'm. I done a super good job. You probably can't tell that they're inside. I feel super distracted even in the course of 50 minutes. But I will do little tricks. Like, I will. I will. I will listen to you and stare at the tip of your nose. Not to make you self conscious, but I will focus on the tip of your nose and where it moves on the screen just to maintain my attention. So little compensatory things to overcome my learning disabilities.

[51:23] ADILENE: Okay? And I say this because when I told you about my disability, I don't think that I ever got treated for it. They told me how I was dyslexic. I don't think it's that because I feel like I have the same problem as you or maybe even disability, you know, because I do need to tend to read things more over and over to even understand what it's saying and out loud in order for me to understand. So maybe it's something that I might have to even go, even get tested by because maybe I do have something. And I. Maybe in my denial, it's like, okay, maybe I don't have anything. I mean, I just got to read more or, you know, things like that, because I do feel myself that I, that I do catch myself not understanding certain things well.

[52:12] KEVIN: And being that you're at Fresno State, they might actually have some free testing available, because I know you mentioned, you said, I don't like to think of myself as having a disability. And in some regards, I'm kind of proud. When I have patients who have children with disabilities and they say my kid is never going to grow up to do anything. And I tell them how I have three now diagnosed disabilities that I've overcome. They're like, well, how, you know, if, if you, with all your degrees can do this, then why can't my kid? And so, you know, there's, there are ways of learning how to basically figure out the tricks on how to compensate when, you know, your brain processes information differently. And then I guess I would say, Addie, I think what surprised me most about learning about you today is the fact that you consider yourself in the center, roughly in the center politically, because I do tend to think of Latinas, Latinos, or Latinx and immigrants, whether they came here with papers or without, as finding much more comfort in the Democratic Party than in anything close to Republicans. So that kind of, that really surprised me.

[53:57] ADILENE: Thank you. I'm. I mean, the same thing goes with thing that I kind of got surprised that is that you have a disability and with all these degrees. And I feel like. Yeah, like I mentioned before, if I were to have this, you know, you're, you're an inspiration to me because, you know, anybody with any kind of mental health or problems or anything, any kind of disability, that if they can do it, why can I? And just to kind of correct you, and don't mean to correct you, but I'm a Fresno City college student. Sometimes I feel like Fresno State as a US or a university, I feel like I'm not good enough to attend because when we get hard. So, I'm sorry, did I not.

[54:52] KEVIN: Did I say Fresno state? I thought I said city.

[54:55] ADILENE: No, it was. You said Fresno State. And so it's okay. It's. I am a Fresno city student, so. But, you know, you've to this to conclude this interview, it's like, I feel inspired by all your stuff and everything that you have came for and have conquered has brought me an inspiration as to if you can do it, why can I? And it's something that I like, you know? Thank you for your time.

[55:26] KEVIN: Yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing and taking the big risks of trusting me. And honestly, Julia as well, not speaking for her, but I mean, sharing. Sharing your experience with something that's very personal to you and your husband, and I appreciate that. And yet, I'm a big believer that with lots of hard work and studies, we can find ways to learn most any material we want and do well. So go to Fresno City College and ask them if they have any sort of learning disability testing and see if they can help you with that. If you go privately, it costs a fortune. I mean, it's probably not worth it. It'll cost you two to $3,000 in private practice. But a lot of colleges offer things and see, because not only it's not a matter of just learning, and having a label add does mean anything, but knowing what to do so that, you know, when you and I talk in ten years, you can stare at the tip of my nose and say, hey, I focused my attention. So thank you for sharing as you did today.

[56:49] ADILENE: Yeah, of course. Thank you so much. I really appreciate this. Learned a lot.

[56:55] KEVIN: Thanks, Julia.