Kia Harrell and Maurice Noble

[00:05] MAURICE NOBLE: Hello, my name is Maurice Noble. My age is 72. Today's date is Monday, April 29, 2024. And then if you could just say.

[00:20] KIA HARRELL: Who you're speaking with right now, the.

[00:23] MAURICE NOBLE: Last two things at the bottom. Uh, having conversation with Kia. And. And that's it. Yeah, I'm sorry. No, no, no, edit it out. Okay.

[00:45] KIA HARRELL: We'Re finished with him. Okay, cool. Hello, my name is Kia Harrell. Today's date is Monday, April 29, 2024. And I am interviewing with Maurice Noble. And we are friends that have gotten together over a love of the community. So as we get into this conversation today, Maurice and I have had several conversations over the years that we have been connected, and I want him to tell a little bit about his story. So Mister Maurice, I know you're not indigenous to Durham. Why don't you give us a little backstory about who you are, where you come from, and how long you've been here.

[01:33] MAURICE NOBLE: Okay. I am a resident of the Bradtown community. I've been living in Bradtown for 24 years or a little more. Well, I moved to Durham in 1970. From there I started working in the community. At that time I was in my early twenties. I started my first job here in Durham was the Burlington factory, I think Burlington Mills. It was on Main street in Durham. Then after I left Burlington, I went over to Duke hospital. I put in 24 years of at 24 years working there. And I also was in the military and I spent 25 years or more in the army reserve. And I retired in 1996. I retired at Duke in 1976. So I had an interesting career so far in Durham.

[03:04] KIA HARRELL: That is so nice to hear, Mister Maurice. It's interesting how you said those numbers and I'm just over here cracking up inside simply because you said 1972. I was born in 1972, man.

[03:21] MAURICE NOBLE: Very good.

[03:22] KIA HARRELL: Yeah, it was a very good year. We need to find a wine that has been aged to reflect the current state. But I want to get into a little bit about how we met. We met at a juneteenth event out in the park. So tell me why you were there and what were you doing while you were there?

[03:43] MAURICE NOBLE: Yes, before we get into the juneteenth. I really, I like that question.

[03:49] KIA HARRELL: I'm curious, do we want to go to you, kia, really quick about.

[03:54] MAURICE NOBLE: Sure.

[03:55] KIA HARRELL: Where you were at before. Sure.

[04:00] MAURICE NOBLE: Mister Morris, could you ask that same question back? So Kia, since you know a little bit about me, tell me a little bit about yourself.

[04:11] KIA HARRELL: Hey, I'm a little bit of an open book. I moved to Durham seven and a half years ago from the great state of New Jersey. I am a Newark, a city girl. And when it came to a point where my kids were grown and I was empty, nesting, and I was looking for a new challenge, I landed on coming here. And it's one of the best choices I've made in my life, because things that I thought that I had left behind in Jersey, I've wound up picking back up here. And I get to meet some lovely people like yourself that get to benefit from that experience. Truth be told, I didn't think I was going to come here and be doing community work. As a child, I advocated for myself. When I had kids, I advocated for my kids. And I pray that my kids will be able to advocate for their kids because I do have five grandbabies running around. But nonetheless, I thought that that chapter, I guess you could say, of my life, was over until we met some common people. So Miss Vanessa encouraged me to come out to a community meeting as the head of the Bragtown Community association. And as they say, the rest is history.

[05:33] MAURICE NOBLE: Thank you.

[05:35] KIA HARRELL: So when you and I met, we met at a Juneteenth event. So talk to me about why it was important for you to be there and what were you doing while you were volunteering that day?

[05:48] MAURICE NOBLE: Yes, well, I, like yourself, was. I had met Vanessa Evans, who's the president of the Bradtown community organization. And from there, from our first meet, she started, I found more about her, found out more about her and what she was doing, and then she started inviting me to community activities. So Juneteenth was one of the events that they had on that last year, 2023. I don't know how many events they have had that I can't recall, but I was there and I was glad to be there. And on this, I have a. I am a photographer, so that drew interest. And me being there, and also the history of Juneteenth, it's a holiday, it's a black holiday. And I just wanted to be a part of it and to take pictures and present them to the community organization so they have documents of, of the activities that are going on in Bradtown.

[07:17] KIA HARRELL: And Mister Maurice, we definitely appreciate you coming out. I mean, for myself, I'll serve two capacities, I guess you could say, while I was there as well. First and foremost, yes, we were volunteering to make sure that everything went off as smoothly as possible as part of the event planning team. But I'm also a realtor, technically speaking, my day. So I had a table up and I was educating folks, trying to get some more people to take advantage of these down payment assistance programs that are available in the Durham area. It's amazing to me that there's over $5 million that was funded for this and not more people have been able to take advantage of it. Yet as a city and as a county, we struggle with providing affordable housing. So, you know, it was important for me to be there to make sure that someone was talking about this because this is one of the things that we're tackling with the Bragtown Community association right now.

[08:23] MAURICE NOBLE: That's right. Mm hmm. Do you guys meet sort of right away?

[08:31] KIA HARRELL: I mean, do you guys remember those.

[08:33] MAURICE NOBLE: First time or that first conversation that you had? Was it, did you kind of become friends immediately or. No, I think we were, we did kick off with conversations and recognition of one another while we were there. But so far as the conversation, I don't recall. There was so much going on and we were so, like, what you might say, in charge because I was working also as a community person with the Bradtown community helping out in the event. So I was floating around, taking pictures as well, meeting other people that were there and had their vendors that were there. It was a nice occasion.

[09:20] KIA HARRELL: Our first real conversation occurred during our community garden project, really where we were able to talk a little bit more in depth. So talk to me about why the community garden is important to you, and then I'm definitely going to tell you why it's really not. But I'm near. Go ahead.

[09:38] MAURICE NOBLE: Well, I think that, well, my interest in the community garden first was it's great. I mean, I never knew anything about garden or anything, so I just struck interest in coming out when I was invited to work from that first day on, things I didn't know about gardening, I know now I'm learning, still learning, but it's just fun to meet people also to be among my community, other people that have the same interest to work the garden. And today, with the price of food being as high as it is, I think we all going to be planting our own food for the future, cut down on paying high bills for food. And it's healthier for you, the food that we plant, everything from herbs to vegetables to fruits.

[10:44] KIA HARRELL: Definitely. Definitely. And, you know, I went just to be a supporter of you and all the other people because I'm not, no, I'm a city girl. I'm not a gardener. I do have one plant at home that has managed to survive for, like, the last seven months. It has not been an easy road, but the plant is surviving. But I appreciate the times that I get to spend with you. I get to spend with Vanessa. I get to spend with all the people that are involved because I get to hear your stories because when I moved here seven and a half years ago, you know, I'm a Yankee coming to a southern town. I don't know what this was before. It is what I see it now. But you guys filter in those stories during those conversations to say, yeah, that used to be the this or that used to be the that. And you can see where the growth is happening. The question is, are we going to be part of the growth or are we going to be continuing to sit on the sidelines? And that's one of the conversations that we've had before. Just how are we going to respond when we're trying to advocate for ourselves? And it seems that the community has to get behind in so many ways, whether it's the planning commission, whether it's city hall, whether it's, you know, signing one of those petitions that we put out. All of those things are important in those conversations are funny because they, they start over something as simple as working the garden. And I think with the exception of you, I think you and a couple of other people are the only ones that really know how to guard.

[12:29] MAURICE NOBLE: Yeah, they say the harvest is plenty, but the labels are few.

[12:34] KIA HARRELL: Exactly. And I appreciate times like those because you've been here, you've seen the things that have gone on where we had 147 came in and it cut off neighborhoods and things like that. Can you tell me a little bit more about how that affected where you live and how you got around Durham?

[12:53] MAURICE NOBLE: Well, I'm originally from Greensboro. Like I said, I came here 1970. I was living on the south side of Durham at that time. It was considered across the tracks. Okay, round 70, 70, between 70, 75, I think. Development. What is it, herbal development, urban renewal or something that came to Durham and things were changing. You see things changing at that time. Now that we are able to go across the track and everything to me is better than what it was, but still, we got a long way to go and a lot of things to do to see that Durham is a safe place, a good place to live.

[13:53] KIA HARRELL: Exactly. I agree. What are some of the things that you feel should or need to change in order to bring about the Durham that you see that could be of the future?

[14:05] MAURICE NOBLE: Before you answer that question, I was just curious if you remember the building of that highway. Yeah, it was. Can you talk a little bit about memories? And there was like a before and after with that memories, not no more than there were a lot of black businesses up on Fairville street on the south side of town. But like I say, it's been much, a lot of change. I, like I say, I worked and I did a lot of traveling. I'm a traveler. And so I didn't spend as much time then in the community. I was more out of the community. But now Brad Town has drew me closer to the community through working in the garden, you know. And you said there was a bunch of black businesses. Yeah. Were those.

[15:16] KIA HARRELL: Were those moved or taken.

[15:18] MAURICE NOBLE: Down for the creation of the. It was, yeah. That's when the urban, urban renewal came through. And a lot of the businesses had either faded out or the closed down. And it was doing to their, uh. I can't remember, remember what caused all the change. But I did see the change being made, and I've been here long enough seeing change been made from the neighborhood to downtown city for me.

[15:59] KIA HARRELL: Right. So is, I see is an interesting conversation to have, because as we speak, they're still trying to really focus on getting a lot of recognition surrounding our black wall street. We had a very vibrant black community that was a stronger, proud community, and they served for years. And yes, you have issues with the government, some sanctioned, some not so sanctioned things that have happened over the years that basically took that pride away. And is interesting when you look at the campus of NCCU, because you mentioned Fayetteville street, you look at the Fayetteville street itself, that first section of Fayetteville street heading down towards the college, you see how those homes have dilapidated, and they were big homes. That's where the people that actually were teaching at NCU actually lived. So when all of this stuff started happening and you had the police brutality, you had the non education of blacks or the miseducation of blacks, when all of these things were going on and they were just shutting down businesses, those houses went vacant. And now they, they're, technically speaking, in the next, probably two to three years are going to be prime property because NCCU is building up all that stuff around it. So they're not going to have Fayetteville street looking like that when you get off the highway to get to that college, that's not going to happen. Right. So we see these things going on, yet we have those same struggles where we are in Bragtown, because we have all of these new housing communities that have gone up, but they have not improved. Some of the shopping centers that are nearby, like, I want them to just pave one good time that darn parking lot where comparison. I just want them to pay the parking. I don't think that's too much to ask, but simple things like this. But again, it's in a predominantly black community, brown, indigenous. Most of the people that shop there are going to be minorities. And it seems like business owners don't really care. But there's a whole bunch of traffic in and out of that shopping area all day, all the time. And nothing is being done to put pressure. And we've tried in small ways, but we're still looking to come to a solution to get them to do simple things like pave the parking lot. Yet I'm not knocking the route nine people that have been advocating for this bus lane. It makes no sense to me that you didn't pave the road, but you put in a new thing for the bus. I see this all over Durham and definitely in Bragstow because they just started doing the. But I just want us to work as a community, as a government, as a city. I just want us to work better on things that make sense. So that's why I'm here. That's why I'm having this conversation with you, having conversations with other people in the community to see how I can help. Because this is where I guess you could say that urban renewal and me comes from being able to utilize those skills that I use there to bring them here. Because there was no. There's no advocacy group that's really active to give you guys a precedent to say, hey, do this. Hey, do this. Hey, do this. Most of these organizations, they start off as grassroot organizations, meaning it's a mom and pop kind of thing. You hope to get a few people coming on, right? So with that being said, just understanding the business of how to do community work is sort of where I come in, where you take the marketing with your photography and your videography and things like that and being out in the community. Cause I've seen your pictures on Facebook. I mean, you're. What's your favorite jazz club right now is what I want to know.

[20:15] MAURICE NOBLE: My favorite jazz club. Let's see. I got many exactly. But at present time I am fellowshiping with some friends that does jazz on Sunday evening from five to 08:00 p.m. and we try to let the word, get the word out to people in their community to come for 3 hours in the evening. So it's called a complex and it's on Club Boulevard here in Durham. So we're doing that right now. You know, for. But there's other Greensboro. Like I say, I'm on the highway somewhere going home. It's Greensboro. So I. I go to jazz clubs up in Greensboro on Thursday night.

[21:06] KIA HARRELL: And what is it about the. The genre of jazz as far as music that gets you going?

[21:12] MAURICE NOBLE: Jazz is so relaxing. Jazz is life. Just like blues. Music is life. You know, it tells a story, you know, whether it's personal or if it's for entertainment purposes, you know, for fun or whatever. But I enjoy it. Matter of fact, I'm teaching myself now to play a piano. YouTube.

[21:37] KIA HARRELL: Look at you.

[21:38] MAURICE NOBLE: Yeah. So I'm just. I just have that interest. But I want to thank you, Kia for being an advocate in our community because that wake us up. We need somebody to wake us up. So you keep doing what you're doing.

[21:53] KIA HARRELL: You know, they said, and a child shall lead them. Don't quote me on what scripture that is. But, you know, let this young woofer snapper come in there and give you guys a reminder every now and then. And I definitely can relate to music being integral in my life. Well, most of my days. And it's funny because during the taping of this, I'm technically speaking, supposed to be online because I moderate an online music show that plays gospel music. We're on Mondays and Wednesdays and it's just tribute because in this area, just Durham, period. Whether you're talking brag town, if you just go down Dearborn, it's like 5011 churches just on Dearborn by itself. But, you know, christian music is something that really soothes me and helps me relax my mind. And I can appreciate that jazz because where I just was, I pulled out. They had a record player. I pulled out a Herb Albert.

[23:00] MAURICE NOBLE: Okay.

[23:01] KIA HARRELL: God damn. I was like, man, I ain't seen this. So I played it. It was pretty cool. So I definitely can relate to how music plays a vital role in your life. And if you look at some of the things that we've had happen over the years, there's always been some soundtrack to it. If you think about it, when you had Martin Luther King and that whole generation of leaders, we had that whole we shall overcome. And so now we're fast forwarding to this day and age where we have Audra day singing our rise up, you know. So music has been at the forefront of what we do out here on the front lines, out in the community.

[23:43] MAURICE NOBLE: I can relate. I was a member of 100 men in black. Matter of fact, I've been in choirs singing just about all my life. But I was with 100 men in black here in Durham until the pandemic came up, came along. And so I haven't got back into singing, but I am a member of Union Baptist Church here in Durham, where I serve as a videographer for our virtual service on Sunday morning. So, you know, and the inspiration I get. Bye. Doing that is great. It's just my life. I choose to, you know, I just love that.

[24:37] KIA HARRELL: Yes, yes, exactly. And I think that's a testament to anyone that's going to be listening to this in the future. You know, in this country, the retirement age, they keep messing around with it. It's gonna go up. It's gonna do this, it's gonna do that. Today I spoke to a young lady, I say young, who just celebrated her 83rd birthday, and she's still working.

[25:06] MAURICE NOBLE: Oh, still working.

[25:07] KIA HARRELL: She's still working. Cause she said, you know, she doesn't have any major health issues, and she wants to get out of the house. So, you know, I appreciate people like yourself that have chosen to use their retirement years to be active in the community, whether it's your church, whether it's the community garden, whether it's, you know, promoting a jazz show. I mean, all of these things go to uplift and inspire the people that are in the community. Because when you think about it, if you hit it at all areas, I'd have invited them to church. I'd have invited them to hear some good music, and I'd have invited them to the community garden where they could have some time to think. You know, that is overall going to add to their well being and their mental health. And that is great. So I don't want you to just like, you don't do much. You you do quite a. You do quite a lot. You rattle off a whole bunch on your your, uh, your resume.

[26:03] MAURICE NOBLE: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[26:05] KIA HARRELL: So talk to me about what gives you some hope for the future Durham. And let let me start by saying this old Durham compared to this Durham that you have now. What needs to be changed? Then we'll go to the hope.

[26:18] MAURICE NOBLE: Okay. The new Durham. I just find that people living close together, then they're not, as what you say, communicate with one another, are interested to carry on conversation. I'm talking about community. Neighborhood, community. Some you know, I think from the old days, everybody knew everybody. You know, you can go in the neighbor's house without knocking on the door. Now you try to go in somebody's house, even the neighbor. Or either. If you just park on the grass a little bit, it's all this friction, you know, between them, you know, and. But I like the old Durham better, and I like, and I can very much say I like the new one, the new Durham as well. Change. I'm. I can adapt to change. So that's all that was. Everything must change. So. And it will change.

[27:34] KIA HARRELL: You brought out some very good points. You know, even though I'm a city girl, I was raised in a community. The neighborhood where I grew up, believe it or not, was heavily eastern european. My grandmother was one of the first blacks to integrate that particular area. And I remember when I was little, you know, my grandmother always wrote out a check to pay her bills. That's just how they did it. I don't care. When the electronic revolution came along, that wasn't her thing. She never put Newark as her return address. Our section, much like a borough, I guess you could say, was called Fellsburg. That always was on there. Now you have to understand the context of this. If you know where, if you ever heard of Seton Hall University, where I lived, it's 15 minutes from that.

[28:27] MAURICE NOBLE: But it's Newark basketball. That's what I heard from. There you go.

[28:32] KIA HARRELL: Right? So that's South Orange, that's west Orange, and south of that is where Newark is. Right. And so it's interesting that we had this mulatto of people that were together in that area still. Now there's still a russian school, there's still a russian church. Now, I don't know who's going to those places now because the neighborhood has turned over and Durham is being, Durham is the same way. It has that turnover. When I grew up, most of my neighbors, like I said, were eastern european. As I grew older and those kids went off to school and came back and got their parents, they sold those houses. And so the neighborhood started to change. We see this in Durham now because in our area, those homes you talked about that are close together, where they put two and three homes, maybe four, on what was once a ranch lot, and now they're building those two stories. And you're right, they don't really all the time communicate because they don't have a sister community. But what I want to tell you about that is they don't communicate the same way you did. They may not be the one that's going outside saying, hello, neighbor, but guess what? They got email. They got listserv. They got. What's that other one? No, nosy neighbor. And. And it's another one I'm forgetting. But they have all of those apps that they communicate. They communicate on. But you're right. We, have we lost. Have we lost our face to face interaction with people?

[30:12] MAURICE NOBLE: What is it that the technology now is. Has really took us away from the past or what we call good life, good times back then, but I still don't. I don't. Not Internet, because I learned a lot about the Internet. That's why I'm on Facebook every day. I check and I learn a lot. I find friends. So everything, like I said, is changing now. But still, I think, you know, it's gonna be all right. We just had to.

[30:49] KIA HARRELL: With you out there. Yeah. We gonna be all right. Cause you making your mark.

[30:53] MAURICE NOBLE: Yeah.

[30:54] KIA HARRELL: Right. So talk to me about what your hope is for the future of Durham. I know earlier you said that, you know, you can adapt to change. If you had the power to change Durham and what you see in our brag town community. What would you like to see, sir?

[31:14] MAURICE NOBLE: What I would like to see, let's see, there's. I'm concerned about the youth in our community. I like to see more programs for the youth, the school system. I don't have children, but I learn a lot about children looking at others that have children and the respect that children today. I would like to see change in our community with our youth. We need to do the best we can to try to get them some that has got on the narrow roads that they come back and we can get them back on the straight and narrow. You know, cut out the fine crime. Every morning you wake up, you hear somebody that got shot. Now it's more young people than it is the older people, you know. So I think we need to come together as a community. There's all kind of ways that we can do. I would like to see people in the professional business that's already made it, that's making big money, can come back to the community and talk with the children without. We have to pay you to come out here. It's all for the same cause, not just Durham, but other cities or across the country.

[32:57] KIA HARRELL: I agree. That's a very big vision, and I share a lot of that sentiment. So what I can say, one of the benefits of being with the Bragtown Community association is that that advocacy piece that we talked about, one of the initiatives we have going on does include a youth initiative. Actually, two, if you count the, the endowment for Durham Tech that's specifically geared towards youth. But, you know, if we find another candidate that can possibly fit. Yes. The second thing is, remember, we have new developments that are coming up. So when you look at what, say, for instance, the builder LDG development is going to be doing at our VFW, they have a component built in that once they put their buildings up and they bring in the housing and stuff that they're doing, one of the pieces is educational after school program.

[34:08] MAURICE NOBLE: Okay.

[34:09] KIA HARRELL: So there's this hope with at least that I'm a realtor in Durham, and our realtor association is really committed to making sure that they get out there. I don't have no kids in the public schools system either, but I do attend a monthly meeting of my realtor association. We have a subcommittee that's just around Durham public schools. And it's exciting to know that we have a president of our organization that is looking at ways that, one, we can bring in better teachers or offer more incentives. So they're looking at some creative solutions for that. They're also looking at the long range plan that they had to establish zones so that we don't have to worry as much about our kids getting back and forth to school because they'll be able to streamline the bus service that takes them there. Because what I've realized is a lot of the things that we see happen with the youth happens in that idle time. You know this to be true as well. I'm quite sure you can recall the time in your young days when you didn't necessarily make a decision school on time.

[35:15] MAURICE NOBLE: I did. I just. We, on the subject of programs, what is Durham? I hear all the time about the housing situation, affordable housing. How do we know what's affordable in Durham? They say affordable. Is it if you can just afford a home? And yeah, it's because I'm thinking of the less. I'm saying I talk to people all the time, thank God I'm a homeowner. But I hear people saying that they paid 1000, $201,300 for a small space where I got four or five rooms, paying way less than what they say. So I'm concerned about that.

[36:12] KIA HARRELL: Right. So the reality is, as the years go on, it's going to escalate how much you get paid. It's going to push up what our area median income is. And that number is what determines basically what's affordable. It may not be a reality number for you and I, but it's what the government says because they set this number. So right now, for example, one of the things that I have a client of mine, she's from Durham, she wanted to live in Durham, would have appreciated taking advantage of the Durham homebuyer assistance, but she's purchasing in Raleigh because of the simple fact that the AMI here is 63,000 and the AMI there is 58,000. So that means that she's able to make more money and still be able to get more things. And plus it has more inventory. Durham, we're not building houses fast enough. We're not building apartments fast enough. Right now we have. I know, right. It's a lot going up. I mean, we have just in Bragtown, 123455 different housing developments that are going to be coming to the area. So it looks like we're filling a need, but in reality we are not. And we have to fight against the fact that some people, when it comes to these rentals, won't be able to qualify because they're not taking care of their homework, they're not making sure their credit is good, they're not making sure that they stay out of trouble. So you have to deal with maybe a conviction. They're not handling their business so that you don't have to worry about an eviction. So when I'm consulting with people, because I do help renters as well, those are the questions that I'm asking so that I can determine what I can do to help them. But the reality is this is something that we're going to have to continue to tackle because Durham as a whole, our county, includes parts of Chapel Hill, which is a higher price. So these things are going to happen. If you look at the homes that are going up in south Durham, you know, if you look at Briar Creek, in case people didn't know, Briar Creek is a combination of Durham and Wake county. So if it has a Durham address and it's in Briar Creek, guess what? Those high priced things also count in that number. So what happens is those essential workers that we have, they sort of get lost in the sauce. So here's where there's hope. There's hope in people like you and I having these conversations with each other and then having them with community leaders and then having them with developers like Habitat for Humanity that can come in and bring affordable housing. And they already have a program in place to reward people with the home once they go through all of their steps, all of their guidelines. So that's where the hope lies, because home ownership is the cornerstone. Home ownership. If you get into a home, you take a little bit more sense of pride in your community because you're not going to leave your garbage can out there on the thing all day because that's your garbage can. And you want to put it back where it belongs, right? And then on top of that, when your kids become of age and you want to send them to college like most people did, that own houses that were of other races, you leverage that home, you send that kid to college, you get him a better education. Now you're starting to turn your family around because you can start from here and graduate up into any level that you want to. So that's the hope that we have that it can be done. And if we continue to work together, we can make it happen.

[40:12] MAURICE NOBLE: Yeah, they're on their way.

[40:16] KIA HARRELL: Give me 10 seconds.