Latif Tariq and Lea Zikmund

00:01 I am Latif Tarik. Mh-48 today is August 3rd 2020. I am currently located in Chesapeake, Virginia and Leo will be my partner in this conversation for today.

00:18 Hi, Emily has a kind and I'm 24 years old. Today is Monday August 3rd 2020. I am in Brooklyn New York and I will be speaking with Latif Tarik who is a new acquaintance of

00:37 Okay, so I just kind of want to know a little bit more about you first. I'm curious. You know, where you grew up.

00:44 I grew up not too far from where I'm currently located in Chesapeake, Virginia, which is Portsmouth Virginia, which is roughly Less Than 3 miles. So I I was born and raised there a majority my family. This is from there then about 10 at 10 years of age. I moved to Chesapeake Virginia where I attended all of the schools from elementary to high school in Chesapeake.

01:16 I like school, but I did not like school. So I guess somewhere school was okay until I can probably got to about high school and I really did not like high school, but I did like the people I like the community I play basketball in high school and sports for 4 year. So I really like that portion of it. But in terms of high school itself, I really like it and that's probably why I'm a history professor today. So I really took it upon myself to probably read more during those years things that I wouldn't ordinarily get in school, but I didn't necessarily do my school work and all of those things for say

01:59 I got you not make sense. So you teach now College open teaching college courses since 20 probably about 2014 and prior to that. I taught K through 12, mainly middle and high school social studies.

02:19 Of course.

02:22 I guess I'm curious. What made you interested in having this conversation before I ask you some of the the questions that we have on our list what made you interested in having a spray for conversation about your military experience? Well Pata Pata, what I'm trained to do is to be a octopus switch off work as an archivist for about about five years off work for years for the United States Army of set of of military history from 2014 to 2018. And then I was the University archivist at Elizabeth City State University for a year. So part of my training in Bena archivist is doing or history and I've done a lot of oral history prep on the soldiers who've come back from both Gulf Wars and some other military campaigns. So it is the or History part of this conversation that I'm particularly interested in paying attention to your format.

03:22 I teach public history courses at Elizabeth City State University. I'm also teach digital history as well. So just pan attention to the different platforms of telling stories is what's up. This is really what I'm very interested in and then over the last two years. I've been part of the University committee that's been part of the North Carolina African Americans veterans heritage project that's been going on where we look for those generation of veterans of African American descent who may not have had probably the type of documentation on their experiences like the

04:08 First Black Marines

04:11 Who was at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina and they will they were mainly young man who were born and raised in various counties and cities of North Carolina who went into the military doing this type of Gatorade are so I've been able to meet like some of the first black Navigators in the Air Force those who I met a gentleman who was one of the first blacks who work in the in the medical field in the Army Ashley his story was unique because he asked me to serve from the end of World War II until he retired in the late 1970s. And then from there he became a science teacher from the late 1970s until he retired again. So this is the reasons why I'm very interested in storycorps really paying attention to how you all.

05:07 Allow other people to tell their story and how you all are recorded in documenting or histories.

05:15 Do you mind if I move into some early service day questions drafted into the military or did you unless the the first question that you were one of the earlier question that you asked me how the one like high school right. So I really got into the army because I was in school and my junior year they made an announcement anybody who come and take the ASVAB test get out of school a half a day. So I nudged my friend. Dion Boone was like Hey, man, we could go take this test and put down anything and we get out half a day right there with the springtime and it was probably maybe I never said it was roughly maybe the springtime right? So

06:15 I know it's the eye and we went in started taking the test. I left it at tell him like that. This test is fairly easy. So he he took the test. I took the ties I didn't think anything of it and then a National Guard recruiter call me maybe a couple months later. And that is how I listed it. What is the acronym for the test? Like, what is it? I cannot remember but it's like anyone who may be interested in the military just a basic standard tests that anyone who want to go into any branches of the military would take

07:02 What do you remember about that phone call this Dugout call by recruiter asking could you come over and he came over to my parents house and just talked about some of the options that I could take take advantage of by being in Virginia National Guard. So I did I did spend a considerable amount of time in Virginia National Guard before I asked it went to active duty. So I ended up being able to use the GI bill right which is part of Virginia National Guard is well as I got a monthly paycheck for the service of serving on the weekends and doing active duty.

07:47 During the summer. So I don't think that the recruiter really needed to ask to really needed to inform me a lot on the military because Chesapeake Virginia. The top water area is a is a military town is mainly Navy but was surrounded by government Navy and an army bases.

08:10 And do you remember what you thought about that growing up? But army bases in that environment, right? So me and my father was in the Air Force he retired as a electrician from Newport News shipyard. My grandfather was in the Army as well. He served in Korea my uncle graduated as idea from Norfolk State University. We both were commissioned officers in the Army and we went to the same RTC program and he I got out early as a captain but he did retire as a colonel in the Army. So my uncle Reginald was in the Navy he retired from the Navy then my great-uncles they were several them with men who also went into the army retired and then came out and work at the post office and retired. So always had its peak

09:10 And people that was close to me that that greatly benefited from being in the army.

09:21 So I would guess then that it was probably a positive reaction on there. And when you decided to enlist is that true, I went into the military because I didn't like high school even though I like playing basketball. I did have a very good opportunity of getting a basketball scholarship. But by the time the end of my junior year, I didn't have any offers and things at that time and he was just mainly because of my grades and then when I did come out of high school, there was a new revelation at Kmart call proposition 48 and then proposition 48 was the beginning during that time of all of the rules that you have in the NCAA. Now that they didn't have before body came out of you earlier about to come out of high school you earlier probably been fine cuz you could have got a scholarship and all you really have to do is do your school work your first year college and everything was okay.

10:21 But then after that you had different criteria soul, I think I was kind of going into my senior year. It wasn't impossible to get a scholarship per se but I think I was also being proactive in like if basketball doesn't work out then there are other opportunities for me to go to college so

10:48 You decided to enlist and then what happened? Next Army. I went to basic training at Fort Jackson, North Carolina. I did what you call split option and split option is a unique program where you actually enlist in the military particularly for me the Army before you graduate from high school. So I was actually already in the Army and my senior high school, right? So I completed basic training that summer. I guess that someone should have been the summer of 1990. So I wouldn't Fort Jackson for basic training and I did my basic training there for 8 weeks before I return back to my hometown to finish my senior year of high school.

11:40 Do you remember what it was like then get out leaving high school to go to training? So leaving this summer with just a probably kind of average probably average experience for me baby. I thought basic training was fairly easy for me. Always thought that anybody who played football who played on any type of athletic team who could take instructions and be somewhat physical can make it through basic training, right? Which I did then I came back to high school, but I had to finish my second part of my training which was called AIT at the time. So I I went to Fort Bliss on Texas. That was the first time I actually wrote on the airplane. So I wrote on there. I took a flight out of Norfolk and took the airplane for the first time to El Paso, Texas to Fort Bliss, and that's why did my AIT so

12:40 Weather and the reason I was there because the particular the branch or not Branch, but my what you call MOS military occupational specialty of the time is called stinger missile system Sarah. So we had to like being a desert so we can train on the the Stinger missile. So it allowed me to go to Texas with child wasn't supposed to write but I did go to Mexico Juarez Mexico while I was there. We kind of snuck across the board at that time. It was a lot easier back then to go to Mexico and do all those things or those type of experiences that the military gave me at a early age along with meeting people that you wouldn't ordinarily meet. So when I was in Texas, obviously that was my for me that was my first time really coming in contact with other Mexican Americans.

13:40 Oakland, do you know who lived in the area for very long time and a lot of them were in the military with me the New Mexico New Mexico National Guard and just being able to meet different people from around the world. I think that was the first time I had the bill Corona. I'm actually positive of it because back then before they actually change the laws may be about 2 years after I got out of the army. I mean after I got out of basic training by then if he was 18 years old you can drink on base as long as you were 18 so up. That was my first time having Corona as beer and I don't think I've I don't think before going to, Texas.

14:31 I recognize that beer anywhere else, right? So so I I did my AIT I come back home. I'll come back home and the latter part of the Fall Mega Ball October and it was different because this is the first time that I'm no longer in school, right? So a lot of my good friends we're going to wear a hat. Nothing went on the college and I went over to a good friend of mine from high school. And then Corey Daniels his his uncle Mister Creedmoor was a long time.

15:14 Counselor at Virginia State University and he asked me why I wasn't in college and I just told him I came back for my second part of my training and that I wanted to go to Virginia State University, but I really didn't do any preparation to go. So he just so you just like what boy do you want to go to college and not and I was like what? Yeah, you know someone can help me and he was like Hey, I'm going to call over to Norfolk State University and in a couple days. I want you to come back over here and I came back over there and get told me he had called over to Norfolk State University band for me to go and do all of their missions because I can still get in for the upcoming semester and that's basically what I did.

16:08 So

16:10 And the let me see here. So that is for 91 soul and spring of 1992 is where I started college at Norfolk State University at one of the things that I did because I was already in the National Guard already had an uncle who was a officer in the Army. I had several friends BJ Jones who still a friend of mine. I'm his mother. Mrs. Jones was I was at a elementary school teacher in which to play in front of her house going up. So I join ROTC because he was there and some and some other friends of mine from high school was there so I was in the Virginia National Guard and ROTC

16:55 In college for the amount of years. I was in college until I graduated.

17:03 And what do you remember about the time like any fun memories of being in the ROTC and being College will I mean just really I mean it was everything about RTC was quite everything for RTC was positive and I guess one of the things about being in Archie cell Norfolk State University, which is a historical black college in university is that all of my mentors were mainly African-American men who all had experiences of being in the army during the years of party Part II gated for those are those men who came in the army during the Vietnam era in the Army has changed tremendously by the time I come in in the 1990s. So it was certainly a positive outlook in terms of being

18:03 Professionally developed and having many opportunities to do a lot of different things on the college campus such as you know being escorts or maybe Miss RTC order just being part of the I'm doing community service through all TC and just understanding that the Army could be a stepping stone in terms of your Young Adult Career or it could be a long-term career. Like I have several friends who got off early like I did but they still went on to hold her position and government jobs in Corporate America, and then I have those who retired from the military

18:54 Right. So so now I am at the age where my friends are retiring right tone in terms of RTC is that in itself was a great experience and I think that unlike high school because I still wasn't a very good college student, right because I had so many bad habits from from high school that I needed to grow Auto, but RTC certainly helped me to grow out of that Soul. You know, I had people RTC to look over me, you know.

19:33 I'm a junior RTC. Well, mainly people RTC are either scholarship or non-scholarship rights for the scholarship people usually come in their freshman year and they have that scholarship for the entire time. They're hard to see I wasn't scholarship but I became what you call a contracted Cadet my junior year. So your junior is one of your most important years RTC because that's the year that you have to go to training. So let me talk about that my junior year so that year in 1995 of the summer 1995. I went to Fort Bragg North Carolina to do my officer Cadet training there and that is where at that time all of the cadets in the country with the exception of United States Academy West Point, but everyone else who's in RTC go to the same place to be evaluated and you being evaluated.

20:33 Your ability to be a leader.

20:36 Because you would be commissioned as a second lieutenant in the Army. So I went there 1995 to Fort Bragg arms about six weeks, my dear very welcome. The highest-ranking you can get is a V and that put you in like the top 5% of that RTC class for that summer and I got a for which puts you in the top 10% and everybody else would just been asking to get up 3, so that was very positive for me and

21:13 You is at that point where you probably, even when you look at my transcripts my college transcripts. It's at that point where you can see where that training and RTC cause me to really become more discipline take more pride in my school work understanding understanding. I guess the system better, even when I was in high school, even though I wanted a basketball scholarship. I don't think there was ever anybody that really set me down to explain the system of how to make that happen. I'm almost sure that right I wanted something and but I didn't know it necessary to know how to put all the pieces together to get it where in RTC

22:04 There is no doubt that you are taught exactly everything that you need to do at every stage of your development. Right? So it's both theoretical and it both practical the only other I would say you was an individual at that point Jess. You would just need to want it. You would just need to want to succeed but the the the structure and the format is Ashley there for you to succeed. So that's my junior year in RTC and Norfolk State and year was very typical. So when you come back to the campus and I had a very competitive RTC class. So that's where the assignment are giving out your senior for RTC because it's the seniors at RTC that is really the leadership of RTC. So you have the valkyrie Cadre then you have the seniors and it's the seniors that really oversee all the

23:04 Other functions that's going to happen within the RTC Department before they actually get commission. So I was put in charge of I think I was put in charge of the freshmen and sophomores when I came back and probably if I would have participated in some of the other activities irtc. I probably would have received more responsibility. But my that summer that I had

23:41 That summer that I had at at Fort Bragg that year really did help me in terms of coming back and receiving more responsibility and RTC and everything out there that is just your senior just really about career professional development before you become a second lieutenant in the Army at that point. You you really have a primary responsibility of graduating and I I graduated in 5 years not for years because I I switch Majors. So I end up graduating in about 4 and 1/2 5 years.

24:22 And what was their major original major was Electronics, which I actually like I like building the components and all of those things. But because my high school

24:38 Experience wasn't good and not tell people this today. I'm a history professor today, but I've always been in the history. So even at my worst and high school that's still too honest honest history was the only artist courses that I would take right because I I like history but I didn't necessarily tape the upper math that was necessary to be a electronic engineer. So coming in and going straight into Algebra 2 trigonometry was a little bit too much for me.

25:14 I'm not sure. I just know that I would just kind of boring knowing history really so like either I was fascinated by things that were old or just fascinated by the past. So growing up. I used to watch a lot of old movies. I live in a very historical. So some of the some of the monuments that are

25:46 That were up. All right, because a lot of Confederate monuments are down now, but even over the last month, I went and checked on like a lot of The Monuments in Portsmouth Virginia, right? Because some people they don't know the difference between a Spanish American Soldier or confederate soldier. They were just turned out Monument, right? So I live in a town they have monuments to a lot of the different eras of of of military campaigns and soldiers. So when you think about Virginia you're talking about the origins of the country right starting from 1607 to win the first British colony set up in Jamestown, Virginia, which is about 45 minutes from me and Williamsburg to 1619 when the first African Americans commit to comfort which is now Fort Monroe, so we've always had a lot of old.

26:46 We have extremely old cemeteries. So growing up are used to kind of like walk through the cemetery. But like who are these people right? Cuz he's people born in like 18 hundreds and you know Civil War in Spanish American war and all these other. So, I think just being fascinated with the past and then once I got to about 13 years old, it went beyond just been fascinated with the past. I start asking myself questions like oh, so if we are black people and we came from Africa who were those people in Africa, right? So I will go and start studying like studying that connection and then growing up in the 80s. I think it was a very good time for me because in the 1980s that was a. Call the Afrocentric

27:42 Movement, right and when you go back to the the older rappers where you are in New York people like Wu-Tang Clan and Rakim in a lot of these rappers from New York who have more positive messages and in their videos and messages included a lot of black history. So that was a another way of me being informed not only about history but then learning a lot about myself and write about the age of off 1314. I really started intensely reading history a lot of fiction a lot of nonfiction.

28:24 Cool. Thanks. I guess maybe we should go back to where we left off with you graduating college, then I'm curious to know what happened after that. All right, so I graduated from college May 17th 1997.

28:43 And being a good friend of mine by the name of Calvin glass who was a lieutenant colonel in the Army right now is about to retire him and I both maybe a week after we graduated we were assigned to go to Fort Lewis Washington, which is right. So we went to Seattle Washington and the military base Fort Lewis was there so the same cap that I went to a 1995 have moved from Fort Bragg to Seattle Washington. So that was my first time having the chance to go to the West Coast. So for that maybe seven or eight week. There I went to

29:30 Seattle Washington where I'm down evaluating as a second Lieutenant, I'm now a bio waiting the cadets around the world in the same way that I was evaluated two years earlier in 1995. So that was my first actual active duty duty assignment. So I stayed at Fort Lewis for about maybe seven or eight weeks and then from there. I went to Fort Knox. Yeah went to Fort Knox Tennessee, which is about maybe about 40 45 minutes from Louisville, Kentucky.

30:10 And is 2 hours north of Fort I can't think of you I think is Fort Campbell, Fort Campbell, Kentucky.

30:22 So after Fort Lewis, I go to Fort Knox and it's at Fort Knox where I did my training roughly from I think maybe from September.

30:36 Yeah, maybe the late August to may be the middle of December.

30:43 I did my training there to be a tank platoon leader at Fort Knox, Kentucky.

30:53 It was not like that was good. I mean I think with your young everything you do with this item, right? So even if it's dangerous you just young and is it citing a you really don't think about being in a tank battle, right? And I'm and I was never in a tank battle, but I know those two were right. So so just, you know learning how to be a tactician and being a petunia leader. So when your platoon leader your second Lieutenant, you put two so you are in charge of four tanks in your platoon your tank so late. Well, let me see so got to put Sergeant tank Crew That's why you got my tank. That's too

31:48 I can't even remember now, but certainly you are in charge of anywhere from four to six tanks. Right? So I learned to do that and after Fort Knox my first overseas Duty station was the Republic of South Korea while I was stationed at Camp Casey.

32:15 In Korea for year where I was supposed to near there, so that's my that's my first assignment where I'm stationed out of the country and that was a very good experience.

32:31 Okay, and then I guess I'm curious. How long was your service? When did you leave the military in about 2002. So with the National Guard and active-duty together I served from 1990 to 2002.

32:55 Can I ask how did you was it a decision to leave or how did that happen for you? When I was so I ended up going back to Fort Knox and there I went back as a first lieutenant then I got promoted to Captain there and I had several positions. I was just active officer in the in the company. I was assistant Battalion operations officer. I was at the National Guard liaison officer, which I have the title National Guard liaison officer because they couldn't give me the title as a company Commander because if they would have did that and that would have taken away from when I was supposed to take a company.

33:55 Man, so I was in charge as being that liaison officer. I was in charge of National Guard and Reserve is who will come to Fort Knox over the summer to get their training but they're still responsible for training our soldiers. So I did that and I was a lot of responsibility but it was a positive outcome to everything. So to answer your question during the time that I got out of the military. I just thought at that time that I had everything got admitted to her that I needed and that I wanted to go and contribute to society in a way that didn't necessarily related to practicing War everyday, right? So my original playing with it going to military retired and you can get a PhD in history and go teach so that was always the original plan. So I went in the military.

34:53 With the intent of getting out and coming back into the reserves.

34:58 But when I got out when I got off at the duty I was like hey, I don't have to be I mean, I have a lot of what I think I can get out of the military at this point. It was a good experience. It wasn't anything that I regret it. So I just decided to become a full-time civilian and I did go straight into teaching cuz I actually start off as an elementary social studies teacher and from there. I mean, I got certified in teaching got my Master's in education and my Master's in US history and they had a PhD in history is just simply the military is a lifestyle choice that mean it is a career for people but people also have to understand it's a it's a lifestyle choice and it's different from being

35:52 A civilian so I just got it to the point where I did want a lifestyle change and just have more autonomy over my life. Right? So I'm not responsible for anyone else then myself as well as being able to do the things in life that I wanted to do at an earlier age than before I retired so that it was just a life lifestyle change for me.

36:24 Yeah, that makes sense. I'm curious. I know that we are we have a little less time several implants in the last couple minutes. If you would want to tell me anyway, like big takeaways from your experience in the military.

36:38 You know, I guess the biggest takeaway from the military is the level of discipline and focus that I've developed over the years and I really don't know how

36:55 I would have accomplished a lot of things that I've been able to accomplish after the military if it wasn't for that experience, right? So when I just think about all of the training that I had and all of the professional development that I had a really has carried over into other areas of my life and it has allow me to set the same standard in the civilian world for myself so I could be successful and I and I learned that from being in the Army I learned that discipline from being in the Army. I don't have to always be either right? I don't always have to hold myself to such high standards of achievement as long as I know that I'm doing the things that's necessary for me to be successful. Right? I like for instance when I got out of the military.

37:55 I didn't went when I work. I didn't allow people who work with me to call me by my first name. They always call me. Mr. Right so I had to learn it's okay to allow people to call you by your first name, right?

38:12 I didn't necessarily like the civilian world for sale, right because in the Army at every level of achieving a different rank, it is all laid out for you. But no one really lays out to you how you get a PhD you have to take care of yourself and you have to work and you really have to figure these things out on your own and the best way to Baby to do it is learning to network through other people. I really learn how to do that and getting out of the military. I didn't quite understand that cut the military structure in such a way that even if you don't know people they still have a responsibility and directing you.

38:58 On the best course of action so you don't necessarily get that in the civilian world. So I just kind of learned how to balance things and use my military experience in the civilian world and understand the culture of the civilian world as well.

39:20 And it sounds like that was an adjustment. Probably but then you know, you're doing something that you really like now to yes.

39:29 Anything else that you want to share? I think that's about it.

39:34 Do betta. Do you have any questions?

39:42 Yes.

39:44 So should I. Do you want to thank each other or?

39:48 Lock the both of you are.

39:51 Thanks for sharing with us.