Leonila Serna and Juanita Lavadie

[00:01] LEONIDA SERNA: My name is Leonida Serna. I'm 82 years old. Today's date is March 27, 2023, and the location is Taos, New Mexico. The name of the interview partner is Juanita Lavadie and my relationship to her is that we are friends.

[00:28] JUANITA LAVADIE: My name is Juanita J. Lavadie. I'm 74 years old. Today's date is March 27, 2023. Here in Taos, New Mexico. I am interviewing Leonida Serna, and my relationship with Leonida Serna is we are friends, but also, too, we have worked together in the schools. And the first time I met Leonida Serna was when she was working here in Taos with co directing the bilingual program with Oclides Tenorio. And I am very excited to hear Leonida's stories. Although I've known her for many years, I know she has many stories that I've never heard before. But also, this is the 50th anniversary here in New Mexico of the bilingual act. So I think this is a significant thing to celebrate. So, Leonida, I would like to know about your background, you know, who are the inspirations and the people that had a big impact in you, your decisions that you've made in life.

[01:36] LEONIDA SERNA: I was the last child in my family, so I was the little one, and I was the one who got away with a lot of things that my brothers and sisters didn't have. We lived in Arroyo Seco, the town not far from here, a very quiet town. We knew all the neighbors. The neighbors knew us, and that was my growing up. I started school in pre first because we did not speak English. We spoke Spanish. So they gave us an extra year so that you could begin learning to speak the language. And I loved school. School for me was like I was going to a rich treasure and had a good teacher. In kindergarten, my first grade and second grade teacher was very, very strict. And it was very hard for me because I love to talk and I love to make friends with everyone that was there. And I also was very competitive. I wanted to be in the first reading group, and she did not put me in the first reading group. And I was devastated. And eventually I went into the first group, and I felt very, very like I was so rich and that I was rich in knowing how to read, in expressing myself, and in knowing both Spanish and English at the same time.

[03:15] JUANITA LAVADIE: And your family.

[03:18] LEONIDA SERNA: Go ahead.

[03:19] JUANITA LAVADIE: Well, how they supported you with all your progresses that you've made?

[03:24] LEONIDA SERNA: Well, I was the youngest one, so sometimes it was beautiful to be the youngest one. And sometimes it was very hard because I had the habit of if I didn't get my way. I would cry. So of course, I was a cry baby. And dad used to hurt me quite a bit. But my sisters helped me very much. They always took care of me. They made sure that nobody bothered me. My brothers were much older. My oldest brother was eleven years older than me. I barely knew him growing up. And he joined the service at the age of he 16, and actually lied to the people that he was already 18. And so I never knew him as a child. My next brother was like six, seven years older than me. That was made a big difference when you're a child. My sisters were five and four years older than me, both of them. And they took a lot of care about me. They cared a lot for me in school. They made sure that I got there. They made sure. But they were also very. They were very happy about the situation, that I would get away with a lot of things that they couldn't do. They just couldn't do it because my mother would get after them, my father would get after them, and I would skip away. And that was the way that the youngest one got away with a lot of things that she shouldn't have gotten away with. And that was me. But I had a good life with my parents. My father worked in Los Alamos and was gone off the entire week and would come home, back home on weekends. And I would just wait and wait and wait for his car to show up, making sure that my father would come back to us, a good life. And eventually we moved to Taos because my brother thought that the education in our royal seco wasn't as good as the one in Taos. So he bought us a house. My oldest brother bought us a house here in Taos. And we came to live here. And that was when I was in fourth grade. And we had a good life in Taos, good house on Montoya street, walk to school, talk to myself, because I was already used to talking to myself and not to my sisters. And I had all these wild things in my mind because I saw myself in big states or going to this place or that place. And then I skip and hop all the way from Montoya street to the. To the high school, first to the sister school to the catholic school. And then in 7th grade, I didn't tell my mother I didn't want to be in the catholic school. And I went and I registered myself in 7th grade at the public school. And my mother didn't know that I was at the public school for the first semester. And I was never hit, but I got talking. That was not very nice.

[06:53] JUANITA LAVADIE: But you decided to go to public school?

[06:55] LEONIDA SERNA: Yes, I did, because they would change classes. This was 7th grade and then it would have one class and then the next hour another class. And at sister school it was the same sister the entire day. And so I decided that. And I, I never got a spankings, but I got a good talking too. And my mother was very disappointed that I hadn't done that. And the nun went to see her, drove all the way to our house to see my mother to make sure that I went back to sister school and I did not go back. I insisted on the public school and that's where I met people, that's where I was. More freedom, not the same teacher. And it was also happiness.

[07:50] JUANITA LAVADIE: So you really enjoyed making the switch with what the public school was able to provide for you?

[07:56] LEONIDA SERNA: I was very happy with it.

[07:58] JUANITA LAVADIE: And what prompted you to continue with your education?

[08:02] LEONIDA SERNA: I always wanted to. We had some neighbors and, and their children, they were way older than me or they appeared like that to me and they went to college and they always talked about college. And so I said I would go to college and somehow I would make it and people would say, it's too expensive, you can't do that. And a lot of times girls that age would get married. My cousins all had boyfriends and got married. I didn't, I didn't. And second semester I asked my brother if he would lend me the money to pay for the entrance at New Mexico Highlands University. And he said, I'm not giving it to you, but you need to pay it back at some point in time in your life. And that's how I went.

[08:58] JUANITA LAVADIE: That's the older brother that bought the house?

[09:00] LEONIDA SERNA: No, it was the second brother. The second brother, the second brotherhood. And so I went to highlands. I loved it. I loved college. I worked hard because I didn't have the money to be there. But I worked at the student union and I selected the student union because I would work making the sandwiches and the hamburgers. And at the end there was always a lot of them left. So that's how I ate. And I told my parents, I will be the one that will make myself go to school and I will pay for it. And they said, how are you paying for it? And I said, I work and I worked my way through college.

[09:45] JUANITA LAVADIE: You didn't get a scholarship?

[09:47] LEONIDA SERNA: I did not. And I was very disappointed because I went early to the university, but I came back to graduate with my students and there was no mention thought they were, well, annoying me. I thought they were going to say, and she's already in college. They didn't say anything. I think I came out number four in the class. I thought I was number one, but it was number four. I was kind of disappointed, but I said, well, I'm already in college and they're not in college.

[10:20] JUANITA LAVADIE: So you went to college ahead of your.

[10:22] LEONIDA SERNA: Yes, I did. Okay. So my senior year, I went to college.

[10:28] JUANITA LAVADIE: Oh, okay. Early admission. I didn't know that about you.

[10:32] LEONIDA SERNA: Yeah.

[10:34] JUANITA LAVADIE: And so once you're in college, you are selecting your major.

[10:40] LEONIDA SERNA: Yes. And I wanted to be a teacher, and I wanted to be a teacher because my mother, my mother's mother did not allow her to be a teacher. And I wanted to do that just for my mother to be a teacher. My mother, I think, probably cried and her mother said, no, that was a job for loose women. And so she didn't get to go to school at a university, and I did just for her.

[11:13] JUANITA LAVADIE: And how was your mother perceiving all this progress that you were making?

[11:17] LEONIDA SERNA: Oh, she was very happy. She was very glad that I could go. And she didn't say no, although we couldn't afford it. But I went on scholarships and I went on my work at the student union and at the library and with one of the. Correcting some of the papers for one of the professors. That's how I went to school. And summers I would come back to Taos and I was fortunate enough to get a job at JC Penney's. And I was like the person that took. I was the person that took the money to the bank. Can you imagine? I would take a sack full of money to the bank and I was the person that I do the errands for the other ladies and I would bring things and I would never try to make sales because the ladies that worked there and the Mendez, their check depended on how much they sold. So if I would go and take care of the work for them and then just hand it over to them, and then at the end of the summer, they would collect some money for me to take to school, supporting you.

[12:37] JUANITA LAVADIE: Supporting your education. And once you, once you got your degree, you were a certified teacher and what happened to you?

[12:47] LEONIDA SERNA: Well, the schools used to go to New Mexico, Highlands, trying to find teachers. And I went in and Santa Fe right away took me. And on the way out, Los Alamos, people were coming in and they say, we wanted her. And the men from Santa Fe, we already have her. And my job started in Santa Fe. And I taught first grade and I and the janitor were the only ones who spoke English and Spanish. Acequia Madre Elementary School big name none of these children were Hispanic. And they had to go to, they could never say the name of their school, elementary school. And it was wonderful. I had a really wonderful time there. And at that time I got married and had a child, my only child, my daughter. And my husband continued his work at New Mexico Highlands to get his degree. And I worked in Santa Fe for two years. And then I said, oh, I want to go Las Vegas. Because he would be in Las Vegas, my daughter would be here in Taos with my mother and I would be in Santa Fe. And it was very hard. So we moved to Las Vegas so he could complete his college degree. And I said, I'm not working this year. No, no, don't even think about it. And we had a knock on the door and it was my husband's uncle who was the superintendent of the public schools there. And he said, I have a job for you. I didn't want to work with my daughter. He said, what do I do with my daughter? Oh, we already made an agreement with the place that takes children and so on. So I taught in Las Vegas. It was very nice. It was very nice because it was my husband and I and my daughter. And then the following year I said, we're going to go visit in Taos. And I told my husband, don't you dare get a job in Taos. I want to go back to Santa Fe. And we came to Taos and they offered him a job and he took it. And so I was well, what am I going to? What am I going to? No, I'm going to take care of my daughter. I'm taking care of my daughter. That's what I should do, mister. I forget his name. He's from El Prado. He was a principal. And he came in, he called and he said, are you home? And I said, yeah, I'm home. I'm back in Dallas. He said, I have a job for you in Arroyondo. You're going to be teaching first grade. I said, but I don't have a car, mister. Cruz. Alex Cruz. I said, I don't have a car. And he said, I'll pick you up. I'll just be ready tomorrow. And he picked me up. He took me to Arroyondo and I spent two years there. And then they asked me to come to Taos. And I taught first and second grade, I think, in Taos and third grade at Taos elementary. And then all of a sudden, I get this call, and they said, we want you to work at the administration building. And they gave me bilingual education to take care of, and they gave me three other jobs, and I became part of the administration of the Taos municipal schools. And eventually I became the superintendent of the schools, the first woman superintendent that had been his. And that was great. And I think because I was hispanic, for one thing, I was kind of a little different than everybody else. I got called by the national. I forget how it's for administrators, the national Administrators association, for me to join them. And eventually I became the president of that association. And I traveled quite a bit throughout the United States. And at one point, I spent a semester, three months and working in Florida, and then I worked in San Antonio for the other three months. And then three other months I worked in Albuquerque and in California.

[17:34] JUANITA LAVADIE: You were active with a lot of connections then.

[17:37] LEONIDA SERNA: I was. And then eventually I came back home after being superintendent, I thought maybe I wouldn't work. And I got to get a call. Ring, ring, ring. And it was the principal at Taos Day school at Taos Pueblo. And he said, what are you doing? And I said, oh, I'm here helping at the Mabel Dodge house. And he said, we need you. Get over here. And I spent another 20 some years at Taos Pueblo. But the best, I think the best years of my life working with native american people, they were very good to me. I didn't have any problems with the native american people. I just had a good working time. They put me with second graders to teach second grade, and I just loved it. And eventually I made a decision to retire because I had already been teaching over 50 years and being superintendent and being other administrative jobs. And I did retire because my husband was very, very ill, and he passed away. And I decided that I wasn't going to work anymore. And my daughter got a big job with the Albuquerque public schools, and she said, you're going with me to Albuquerque. And I didn't want to go to Albuquerque. I cried, but I went with her. And I didn't work in Albuquerque. I just had a real good time. And I said, I'm retired. I'm not going to have a regular job. I will help other seniors that need help. And so I went to the senior center, one in Albuquerque, because Albuquerque has beautiful centers for seniors. And I was kind of like the person who gave. People would talk to me about their problems, and I would try to settle them for them. And now I'm retired.

[19:59] JUANITA LAVADIE: Yeah. Well, I know when I worked with you, that was at the Tel day school.

[20:06] LEONIDA SERNA: That's correct.

[20:07] JUANITA LAVADIE: Yeah. But I had met you before that. I was there at the day school for about ten years, and that's when my husband died and things changed for me. But I remember the first time that I met you, you were in the barracks. They don't exist anymore. Those buildings were changed. You were there with oclides and audio and you were working with the bilingual program. What was that like?

[20:29] LEONIDA SERNA: Oh, that was great. That was, I love that. It brought me back to my memories of a child as being bilingual because by the time I was in first grade, I was speaking some English, and eventually I spoke both English and Spanish. And it was one of the best times in education for me because people actually wanted their students to know both English and Spanish, and we were there to work on that. And it also gave a lot of teachers because we received a lot of federal money and a lot of teachers to go back and get their following degree, whatever degree they still needed. They would advance, they would get better, better pay with a BA and an MA. And a lot of teachers did that. They went for the MA and we worked with New Mexico Highlands and we work with a university in New Mexico. And our teachers were progressing and loving what they did. And eventually, I guess the money just went down and I don't know, because I don't work for the Taft schools. I don't know if they still do bilingual education.

[21:52] JUANITA LAVADIE: Who are the, would you think, like, were the movers and shakers of getting the programs going?

[21:58] LEONIDA SERNA: Well, we had real good, we had good friends at UNM and we had very good friends at New Mexico Highlands, and we had good friends at the Capitol, the senators. And the senators. I know I went to several other meetings and not begging, but asking for more money so that our students would advance a lot better. And we did get the monies. And that's what it takes. It takes to go and talk and show what your progress is and not just give me, give me, but the progress that the students were making.

[22:42] JUANITA LAVADIE: Do you have any memories of students being active with bilingual programs?

[22:48] LEONIDA SERNA: Oh, there were so many at that time. Some of them. The other day I saw this man at the store and he misses Serna Misses Serna. Remember me? Misses Serna? Well, no, I don't remember you. You were a child. I was an adult. And do you remember my mom and dad? And I forget who this mom and dad were, but the mother was a teacher also. And I go like, yeah, yeah, I do remember and I said, what's your name? And he told me his name. He said, I have a daughter and I have a son. This is somebody that I had in first grade and this was a man. And I said, oh yeah, I do remember you. And my daughter said, do you really remember him? And I said, no, I have no idea who he is, but I'm glad he's glad to see me. And that's the kind I meet up with students like that. I met up with one the other day and he was in this big line again at Walmart and he wouldn't. And people said, move, move. He said, no, I have to talk to misses. Serna, remember when you told me that I was a good student? Those are the memories that come back, or when you were the superintendent. Remember that you were able to get me a scholarship at UNM and you helped me out and that kind of thing.

[24:15] JUANITA LAVADIE: What about classroom memories?

[24:18] LEONIDA SERNA: Classroom memories is I had, when I was in Las Vegas and I was getting my degree at New Mexico Highlands and you had, and you were getting your degree in teaching. Then you had to go do a, it wasn't a semester, but maybe about three months to work with a teacher or teachers so that you would know what you could do in the classroom. And I had heard about this lady in Las Vegas. She was a wonderful teacher. I wish I could remember her name right now, but she was, she was super. And she took me in and she showed me how to get students to work and still like you. And boy, I used what she did and it really worked for me. And at the same time, I did like those students. I did like them. But, you know, they can be stubborn at times or whatever, and I say, that's what saved me and that's what showed me what a good teacher was.

[25:28] JUANITA LAVADIE: And student memories, you know, sometimes as a teacher, I have memories that I have in the classroom, those, aha. When you see a student reaching a level of understanding something because you set the groundwork for that. Do you have any special student memories?

[25:47] LEONIDA SERNA: I had two students who, they had claimed that they had a lot of problems. And that was, for me, that was the way I was way up here. I thought when I could get those students to really work, to really participate, to be happy because they were so unhappy at times. And sometimes I would just ask them to stay in for recess and we would, I would show them how to do things or how to. And then they thought they had become like my mentors, I guess. And I love working with that kind of children and some children that just didn't want to participate. Some were family problems. I never got into those. That was the situation. I did speak to some parents and say, try to tell him that he's really doing good instead of us telling him that, and I include it myself instead of us telling him that he's not doing his work well. And it was usually boys. And with working with the parent, not only with a child, the child would be able to rise up and show what his or her I abilities were. And I always think about this and that. I always wanted my students to rise up, and it was hard, but if I did it and I kept doing it, they would do it. Nobody wants to stay low. Nobody. And if they do, that means that whomever the teacher is or whomever they work with is not helping them out. And there's some children that need some real serious help, and a lot of it is at home, things that are happening at home, and you don't ask them for personal to tell you, well, did your mom do that or did you? That's. That was not my way of doing it. But eventually you like somebody, you really like them, and they will. They'll do what they're supposed to be doing. I cannot remember one hateful student, or if they were, eventually they turned around.

[28:29] JUANITA LAVADIE: What was your favorite thing to do with the students?

[28:35] LEONIDA SERNA: My favorite thing was to read to them and to discuss what was in the story or what would you do, and how do you think he worked that out? And so they not only got to hear, they also got to talk about the story. And a parent one time said, gosh, I already know that story up and down. He's already told it to me and asked me if I understood it. That, for me, was a good feeling.

[29:07] JUANITA LAVADIE: So it's like the question and answer.

[29:10] LEONIDA SERNA: Yeah, question and answer. Or what would you have done instead of what happened, you know, that kind of. And that even would get some of the ones that were always, I don't know, I kind of would perk them up, you know, and try to get those ones to participate. Sometimes you. Sometimes they didn't. You know, it wasn't perfect, but it did get them to at least voice what they thought.

[29:46] JUANITA LAVADIE: So we have ten minutes. Is there anything you want to talk about besides teaching?

[29:52] LEONIDA SERNA: Well, I. I liked working. I liked participating in church doings, and I wasn't the one that was really bang for. It was my husband. He loved to help, and he loved to help people. And sometimes I would have to remind him that we also needed food at the house, because he was very. He knew a lot of his students that were having a lot of problems. And a lot of the problems, he says, they just don't have any money. They just, you know, there's no father at the house or there's no mother. So I think my husband bought more shoes for others than for us, you know. But that was his way of thinking, and that was, he came from a very big family. He was the oldest. He had to work. He worked through his whole high school, and he knew a lot of how to help others. And from him, I learned a lot. I learned that you just can't sit there and say, oh, poor thing. Poetic. No, you find a way that you can help, a way that is not problems for them, a way that they appreciate somebody even telling them how nice they looked, you know, that kind of thing. I learned a lot from my husband.

[31:29] JUANITA LAVADIE: Well, he was a popular coach.

[31:31] LEONIDA SERNA: He was very popular. Yeah. And I was the last child in my family, and I. I have to confess that I was spoiled.

[31:44] JUANITA LAVADIE: You know what I remember about your husband in school? One time, he reached into his pocket and he pulled out a paperclip. He said, I always have one of these in my pocket. I never go without a paperclip. And I thought about, yeah, I guess you could do a lot of things with a paper clip. But I remember that, yeah, he was a very popular coach.

[32:04] LEONIDA SERNA: He was. He was a very good person. At the end of his life. He had a lot of problems, health wise, and he left us very, I thought, very soon, you know. But he, I think a lot of it came from. He probably had never had a good meal when he was child. He probably didn't. If he was sick, he was probably not taken to the. He was the oldest, and there were like nine, nine children. And his father had left him and had not taken care. And the mother worked so hard that she passed away.

[32:50] JUANITA LAVADIE: So he was orphaned when he was.

[32:51] LEONIDA SERNA: Young, and he was the one. And he came to New Mexico Highlands just to get away, because he became the father of all those children. And so he was very. And at the end of his life, he was very tired. Very, very tired. And he was very willing to give, to give, to give, to give not just money, but to give his time, to give his good thoughts to others. The kid that, because he was a coach, the kid that ran in the race just didn't make it. But he was always. But look how much much you made then. The last time.

[33:34] JUANITA LAVADIE: The progress.

[33:35] LEONIDA SERNA: The progress.

[33:36] JUANITA LAVADIE: Recognizing the progress. Everybody has a chance to be recognized for progress.

[33:42] LEONIDA SERNA: And I liked that he did that. And I learned a lot from him, too. I learned, because I was the youngest child, I never had to do anything at the house. I skipped and I jumped and I went and I played, and my sisters, one washed the dishes and the other one dried them. My brother chopped the wood and me skipping around. And then I couldn't understand why my sister didn't like me that much. But that was the life of the youngest child.

[34:21] JUANITA LAVADIE: So of your siblings, were the others. Did any of the others become professional?

[34:26] LEONIDA SERNA: Well, my sister, no. One of my sisters got married and had, like, six or seven kids, you know, so she was a good mother. She knew how to do that. And my other sister worked at the capitol in Santa Fe all the time. And she had real good jobs. And then she took a lot of courses, a lot of classes. And then she got married, had some children, but she never did get a ba or an ma. But she had a lot of college work done. Yeah. And my brothers both went into the service, did very well in the service. My oldest brother was a paratrooper, and my other brother was in the air force, and both retired from the service and retired. And the oldest one has passed away. The second one is still with us. He's 90 years old now, and he was in the air force and did very well, married a german woman and has a real good life. I made a trip to Phoenix this past summer just to see him, and he brought up all the things that I used to do to make me laugh and to tell me that I was a brat, I think.

[35:56] JUANITA LAVADIE: Well, it seems that you come from a family that's made a lot of accomplishments. I think so I appreciate what you've shared with me.

[36:06] LEONIDA SERNA: Thank you.

[36:07] JUANITA LAVADIE: I've known you for a long time, but there's a lot of things that I hadn't heard about. And so thank you very much.

[36:13] LEONIDA SERNA: Well, thank you very much for listening to my life in Arroyo Seco in Taos and then moving out on. I love to travel.