Les & Susan Cooper

00:04 Do you want to introduce yourself?

00:06 My name is Les Cooper.

00:09 I'm Susan Cooper. He's. I'm Susan Cooper, his wife. And we're doing this interview for the. I think for the Jewish home or for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they. They just interested to know about your experience during the Holocaust and after the Holocaust. Like, maybe you can tell them where you were born and when.

00:41 Yeah, I was born in Budapest, Hungary, 1944, which is really. I was a baby during the Holocaust. I remember nothing. I was too young.

00:56 Yeah, but there were stories that your parents said about how you survived. You almost did not survive. Do you remember the stories they told?

01:10 Not really. I didn't pay attention as a kid.

01:15 I know you had a nickname.

01:17 They called you Rozoga

01:20 Yeah, Rozoga That's a Hungarian word saying, like flimsy, really flimsy and fragile. He. He basically, there was no food. The mother had no milk, so he almost died of starvation. That's the story I heard you telling me before. And he had no energy even to cry. So he. As I said, he almost died. And your mother told me a story.

02:04 Well, I lived down here 72, eight years later.

02:11 And your mother told the story about how she went to get you some. Get herself some food so she can have milk. Do you remember that story?

02:21 I don't remember the story, but I know it happened.

02:26 Yeah. Should I tell the story? Yeah, yeah. So the mother went to get some, like, oatmeal kind of something. So she. Because they were all starving, to have some kind of food so she can feed the baby with her meal. And she was stopped by the. By an SS officer. And it was a dangerous time because you're not supposed to be out there with the yellow star as a Jew. But she had the courage and she begged, begged the officer to please let her go because she has a baby who needs the food. He's in a bad condition. And she was very religious. And I prayed to God and the officers just said, okay, I'm gonna look away. So basically, it was a miracle that the officer let her go and she was able to get home and feed the baby. Well, this is about that story. And do you remember stories about how your dad was hiding? Where he was hiding?

03:51 No.

03:52 Like he was hanging out on the.

03:54 Oh, yeah. On the side of the.

03:58 On the ledge on the third floor or what floor. He was outside on the ledge hanging out when the SS officers came to search for Jews. And that's how he was, like, survived. And there was another way. He was hiding under the Coals like these apartment buildings had in the cellar. They had the coals to heat the building. So he was hiding under the coals. And when the search team came.

04:41 And. This was in Hungary.

04:42 This was in Hungary. This was in hungary. Budapest in 1944.

04:48 So the war was almost, almost over.

04:53 But they actually started winding up the Hungarian Jews at the end.

05:01 Oh, so they were. The Hungarian Jews were allowed to sort of live outside the camps?

05:08 Yeah, it was. They. They got to the Hungarian Jews at the end.

05:13 Okay.

05:14 But it was like a panic time because Hitler felt like they losing the war. So they really quickly, they wind up. I don't even know how many million Jews.

05:27 Six million.

05:28 Six million Jews at the end. And even when the war was like, ended, they still, like gathering. So he was born in that time when it was panic. And let's get more and more Jews as much as we can.

05:46 That must have been something, I mean, just for her, his mother to have been pregnant during that time. Do you have other siblings? I have three others. Are they all older? I have an older sister, an older brother and a younger sister. Okay. And so were your parents allowed to work during this time? I don't know.

06:13 Do you know his mother never worked? She was home with the home keeper. His father worked. Where did he work? I don't know if during the war he worked. I don't know if people worked during the war.

06:31 I think he worked for the Jewish Agency as a clerk.

06:38 During the war? After the war?

06:41 I don't know.

06:41 It might be after the war.

06:47 Were your parents. Was your father able to avoid the Gestapo?

06:57 Like hiding.

06:58 Hiding until the end of the war? Yeah. And what happened after the war ended? What happened after the war ended? Things went back to normal. So the Jews weren't treated really any differently?

07:17 No, no. There was still anti Semitism even today, Even today in Hungary. And the communists came in. The Russians came in with a communist regime. And basically they were not allowed to have any religion. Not even. Not just Jews, but any religion. So I was born in 56. So I don't know that era right after the war, but I know some of the communist regime era since 56. After 56, that's when I grew up. I mean, I was born in 56 and his family, basically in 1956, the Borders. There was a revolution in Hungary. The Hungarians wanted to help the Russians out. They wanted to have their freedom. And during that revolution, basically, the borders were like, sort of like opened. They opened the border so thousands of Hungarians, Jews and non Jews.

08:34 Hungarians just some 75,000.

08:38 75,000. Just escaped. And he has a story to tell. That's a really good story if you can tell that you escape.

08:48 Yeah, we escaped on the Austrian border at night walking through the snow? Yes. And can you. So what was that like? How old were you? 12. 12. And what was that, what was that like? How did you feel like when you were trying to escape in the middle of the night? It was interesting, but it was nice. It wasn't scary. We just walked through on the side of the. By the buildings on the street and we got out, took the train out. So you were. You having to sort of hide in the shadows as you walked along just to avoid being seen. Were there a lot of people sort of doing this all at that. Some 75,000.

09:42 You had to be very careful and you had to be doing it in secrecy. Basically. The mother sold all the furniture and like last minute, because even if the neighbor got a hunch that you're moving, they reported you and then you were taken away. So it was. It had to be a very. In a very secretive fashion. And then the father, like a week ago, a few days before, did like a test trip with his sister, right?

10:18 Yes, younger sister.

10:19 Younger sister. So they went to the train and they like tested out how it's going to go. And then when they came back and.

10:28 We had a helper on the border.

10:30 They hired the coyote helper who like had them through the border. And then at the middle of the night, the five of them, family of five, they went like.

10:46 Six.

10:47 Six, yeah, six. Sorry, six. Plus another neighbor joined them. Right?

10:53 Yeah.

10:55 They were not happy about it. They had to take them because if they didn't, they would have reported. And they had a little baby that they were scared of because the baby starts dying. And it was a more.

11:09 Right. Was that other family Jewish as well?

11:14 Yes, yes. And yeah, they went through a tough time. It was a long, long walk. First they got on the train to get to the. Close to the border and to cross the border. It was how long? It was like four or five hours walking and through mud. And the mother had problem with the shoes.

11:39 Were you on like in the street or like in the woods?

11:43 No, it's the woods. And like. How do you call? Like mud, Like a rivery muddy. It wasn't terrain. And they heard gunshots in the woods.

12:00 Could you see other families also in the woods? I don't know if there were families. I know there were flashlights and we didn't know who was a guard and who was Escaping. And then. So once you got to Austria, what'd you guys do? Well, we had tea, but, I mean, you know. So did you live in Austria for a while? Yeah, we lived in Austria for, like, three, four months.

12:41 They got into a camp, they welcomed them and they gave them food and drink. And for a couple of days they were in a camp until the country decided where to place them.

12:58 Then we had written to family in America. And then. So, okay, they helped us out. So. Yeah, so then they brought. They, I guess, sponsored you to come. Yes, yes, yes. Jerry Fisher.

13:15 I have a whole book up here. They made, like, album how it happened, who helped. And he had. He had families here who were very, very gracious. They got together and they all put money together to help them.

13:32 You know, $25 a family. But we had a large family. Yeah. So where. So did you go through Ellis Island? No, no, you didn't have to go through Ellis. No, we didn't go to Ellis Island. Where did you end up in the States? In New Jersey. In New Jersey. And that were your other family members that were already living here? Lived? No, no, no. They were all over the country. Okay, and so how did you end up in New Jersey? Do you know?

14:09 Was it in Bronx?

14:10 Was it in Bronx? Well, I mean, then we moved to the Bronx. At the very beginning, it was New Jersey, and no, the family was living all over America. And what did you think about America when you landed here? I didn't think much of anything. You know, people had long arms. Heads. People all had long heads. Long heads. Long heads. Because the style was bold, you know, at the time for guys, and that made them look like they had long heads. Did you speak English? Did any of your family speak English? My father did. Your father did. So that probably helped as you. Yeah, he got us through, but we learned fast. In six months, we all spoke English. Okay, so how was. You know. Did you have a hard time assimilating into. No, you were young. I don't remember having a hard time at all. Yeah. Of anything. So is your family still alive? Well, my parents, of course, are gone, but. And a lot of those relatives who were alive then are gone.

15:54 But your siblings are all alive.

15:58 And so how did you guys meet?

16:02 We met in Hungary in 79. Then he went back to Hungary for a vacation to visit, and then we met there by a lake. By a lake. Remember the story? I don't think it's a story for whatever.

16:28 So you were.

16:30 I lived in Hungary until 79, so we met over there, and then he came back, it was just a vacation. And then two years we were dating on phone and letters, and then I came out, and then we got married two years after.

16:50 Yeah. Can I ask, are you Jewish?

16:55 I converted.

16:56 You converted? Oh, okay. I was just wondering, like, you know, if you were, like, you know, what happened with your family.

17:04 Yeah, my family was. Yeah, he's not Jewish, so they didn't have any experience.

17:12 Yeah. So is there anything that you would want to make sure that your kids knew about your history? I don't care. You don't care? You have. How many kids do you have?

17:30 We have three kids.

17:31 You have three kids? Well, is there anything else you'd like to share about your story? I don't care. My kids don't have to know anything. If they want to, they can. Okay.

17:45 But they would only know it from you.

17:48 She would tell them if they ask.

17:51 Yeah. He used to be very, very outgoing and spoke a lot, but last few years, he's not that talkative.

18:04 Is there any other stories that we should know about?

18:11 I don't know.

18:15 Well, then I just want to say thank you so much for sharing your story with us.

18:20 Thank you. Thank you.

18:23 All right.

18:24 Thank you.