Linda Hanley-Thomas and Howard Thomas

00:00 My name is Linda hanley-thomas. I'm 67 years old. Today's date is Wednesday, April 21st, 2021. I'm recording with my husband Howard, and we're here at our home in Travelers. Rest, South Carolina coding in our house in Travelers Rest, South Carolina with my wife, Linda with the first question, so, we call him how we not Howard.

00:48 You just pause for a minute. I know a lot of the answers to these questions, but I'm so happy to be able to record them for primarily our grandchildren. I certainly won't remember the stories to be able to tell them and they're his stories. So we'll start in the beginning and I, I will ask where you grew up, grew up in Upstate New York. Born in a agricultural Community, York City on an island for a couple of years before I went into the service.

01:30 Okay, and I was a bit younger than how he has had time. And I know at his service. From the news, from, watching the news with my family. And I, I do remember my brothers.

01:50 With the possibility of being drafted, actually, they did not serve and so I I would like to ask what from did Howie to join the u.s. MC.

02:03 During that time. It was something being raised and growing up in the 50s. It was a lot of Hollywood influence on young. Watched movies on.

02:18 It was just I think you for many of us and our fathers are uncles and so it would never question on top of that. There was a lot of time during the political turmoil of the questioning about what we should do in the country. And I said that we're going to go to war and that's a given no matter what any politician said, it was reality and it turned out to be so so I said I wasn't going to not do my share. I don't think we really had any insight as to what that we did anyway.

03:08 I do have to admit in retrospect majority, my generation 2. Serve, but that was it. Okay, when how he and I met we realized there was a coincidence that where he Enlisted the physical building was right across the street. From where I was in the eighth grade. We did not see each other worlds apart. So I'd like to ask him to say.

03:41 How that process was of him leaving home. I'm letting his family know that he was going to enlist and then enlisting and after signing up what the next steps were for you. Okay? I think it was never a question of whether I was going to go into the Marine Corps or the matter, with exactly one and various reasons. I didn't enlist until I turn eighteen before that. I am travel down to the US Virgin Islands for a month-and-a-half with a beach bum.

04:21 And,

04:25 Then return to Coral Gables Florida doing list. And that's where Linda said she was in elementary school. And so he was there that I enlisted in the Marine Corps. And I had a couple of days or just waiting to take the bus from Coral Gables all the way up to Parris Island. And so, I did a lot of walking around and she told me where her to school, but I said it was a little spooky to say the least, following the induction ceremony. And I think the next day or the next night that we got it. Myself and two other individuals who go in the Marine Corps, got on a Greyhound bus.

05:14 That all the way in the back all the way up, and that's a long ride, and we got there in the middle of the night or the next day, and we weren't met by drilling contractors in the middle of the night. We were not killed at that came later, and no yellow Footprints at least. For the next day with my, at all happened, quite a traumatic event for all of us. Moving from the Virgin Islands to Coral Gables, Florida to that morning after arriving. In Parris Island. Did you have any flashes of regret?

06:00 I don't know that it was regret is much as it was a mystery in the sounds were differences. Smells different my life at chain, with no longer a child, but I had no idea what to do. If I found out soon enough in the Marine Corps. There's a whole purpose behind it, and most of us survive being in the Marine Corps through their efforts and their training that they made us.

06:43 Able to survive and be good citizens after work. So it was a great experience. Even though it's a Once a marine always a marine heza gets the job done. Okay. So, let's see when you had your basic training. How did they assign you a job to do your High School record and 11 as a basic Rifleman. That was a very popular MMOs.

07:38 I wasn't chosen for that.

07:41 Been there at. It was still early enough, this was

07:45 December of 66 and January, and February 67, so the war was checked out, so they still gave people. Other MOS is occupational, Specialties and I wound up being a surveyor.

08:02 Drill, instructor said she was my language. What's up is a surveyor. He couldn't believe it. Takes lines of sight and measures, angles and distances etcetera. And so it was just left. It sad and that was my original Emma West surveyor, the Marine Corp.

08:29 At. So, that was your original bet. That was not what ended up being your brother and several months later on June 8th Engineer Battalion. They realize that surveyors were not getting wounded or killed in Vietnam and they needed more available Personnel for other jobs.

08:56 And so, because I had skill and doing engineering stuff that you decided to see my prime a hand at being a combat engineer. By the time that was all said and done. I knew I was going to be at my phone and so I went over to the career career and Co and said, you know, I have to go over but do I have to go over as a combat engineer? And he said well, we can send you over the frying pan Into the Fire.

09:35 Is there anything else he says? Well, I have his quota frog, dog. Handler. I had to be filled and said I'll take it.

09:44 Until that's why CMOS picked up. What's going to be at Nam Centre? Dog handler.

09:52 In order to become skilled in that job. I had to go to training at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas. That was an August and September of 1967.

10:07 Yeah, so how he was a dog handler and has a lot of stories about his dog, the dog that he served with. And I went when I met how we, again knowing my civilian history of Vietnam and in knowing he was 18 years old, 19 when he was serving and he was serving with a dog that was trained to fight. And so be it because of his dogs training, how we and and the dog needed to stay separate from his fellow Marines and safe and keep others safe. And I think that's where we want to focus. Our our story today is on meeting his dog tiger and and what they did together how they serve together.

11:06 At the century school and at Lackland Air Force Base. I was issued another dog.

11:18 And I trained with him. That's how I learned to be a dog handler and he learn to be a Sentry Dog. But the Marine Corps, having a tight budget. Like it's said, we can afford another dog or we won't take Torah or we needed to talk Hammer because we have dogs over in Vietnam already. So I went over without. And when I got to Danang October 10th 67 going to the dog.

11:55 And it was there that I was introduced to my dog tiger and smile.

12:04 Gmail account from there. What a wonderful. I wouldn't say what it was. Wonderful in the relationship. I had with tiger and the various things are expensive.

12:27 We went from there for almost a year worth of time.

12:32 Could, could you tell us the story? I don't know if it was Toro or tiger, but how you became introduced to the dog and the dog learning to trust you. Both cases. He wasn't aggressive tiger. On the other hand, had already been in Vietnam since late 1965. So that was almost two years. He didn't country.

13:03 And so he was very much an aggressive Century dog.

13:10 And so,

13:12 I had the opportunity to be outside the that the dogs were in each individual kennels, which was fenced in concrete floors. And so the gunnery sergeant said Thomas beginner wash his kennel down. You got to talk to him. You've got a fighter, put your finger through the fence without losing them. And and so we did that for a couple of days and I'm sick of this is really easy.

13:46 And the guy comes over and goes.

13:51 We knew we could do it because it ain't raining.

14:00 Training suit, I wasn't going in with her tax if I was just calling you.

14:07 In my skin and clothes, who are you?

14:24 And finally comes walking around and I'm staying in there. Please don't bite me please. And finally comes over and sit down and

14:34 And he wants to lick your hand when I go. Okay, from that point on it wasn't a matter of truck. That was a matter of building it to the point where you were basically one empty yourself in the door.

14:49 Later on horse, handlers realize that the intelligence quotient ran increase that you went down. The leashed dogs knew what they were doing. It was more for the Handler to figure out what you're trying to tell.

15:09 Could you describe?

15:12 The suits, you wore, when you train dogs for other. They were patting him and leather. And remember, this is Vietnam. You can't have enough. Pet some of the Dogwood, hit you, like you're being hit by a bulldozer, try to knock you over and yet they really want.

15:50 I knew you were like a football helmet with a big cage. And what you do is, you basically stand there with your arm out, front at the arm and some may be more vulnerable parts of the body shop where you ever been. So but not by tigers.

16:18 Tiger would never bite you. Israel was what was Tiger trained specifically for Marine Corps have two types of dogs are in Vietnam. When was Centre dog was primarily Patrol perimeters Bridges ammo, dumps artillery basis even are strips of going into combined action later on. So play Mary job of country, dog. Supposed to Mark presence of the enemy coming into there and be the first line of defense.

17:03 So if need be, the dog could be commanded to attack or if the hand was being.

17:12 Attack by somebody other, the dog would attack even if he was off leash without being commanded, that didn't

17:22 To track the factory dogs to react at to sensory perception person over a thousand yards away.

17:38 And it says more than a half-mile just by the sense of smell.

17:43 Her sense of hearing was heightened sense of night. Vision was also very good. So they were different than Scout to walk the point with the Infantry that happened later on with scent for dogs as well.

18:04 .

18:08 So could you describe tiger what he look like and how the that your fellow Marines knew him very, very smart? Typical time for dog, handler. And so whenever he was back in the kennel, called back in the rear with eating the MP battalion.

18:44 Where the candles were in the veterinarians were at?

18:48 He would be in a kennel when other people would walk by, and he knew them.

18:55 And if you didn't know somebody and he was that Ben Moline somehow he would.

19:03 Deprecate in a kennel.

19:07 And that he would tip over his water bowl so that the water in them.

19:14 Fecal, matter, mix mud bath. And so remember that.

19:23 And he wait for the people to go buy once he's Stephenie manure and then he breaks for them to come by and he circle circle circle and soon as they were right in front of the fence where he was he'd hit the fence with all four feet.

19:45 Thomas get that shit swinging out of here and away. We go back to back out into the field of though. It had its hazards was far more preferable than being in the rear area where you had to polish your boots and everything else police Battalion, so

20:03 So are you in training that way? They came that way already and also physically but you would probably about when I got it hears about 85 lb, good sized dogs. Remember these dogs typically lost a lot of weight in the field were suffering from heat. Air was suffering from malnutrition because we didn't always have the best food for them and they have parasites. So we have to make to try to get a better.

20:42 So he was at primarily at 8:10 covered.

20:50 Oh, you mean to tell me? He was bobtail with a previous Amber who had

21:05 What you're not supposed to do at the Centre of our camera, is walk in on a dog's alert. The dog alert to the enemy. Apparently the money lost to tell pay attention walked in on it. Somebody to charge didn't kill either. One of them had to be amputated, percent-owned blind. So I think that was his first Handler. How do you born that way?

21:48 CIA. I heard the story that he was referred to as the cross-eyed bob-tailed poop swinger accept another words. All right. So so you and tiger Be Tamed us and was Tiger already known and Country by the enemy. There are security leak. There was a lot of provide services to people back in their Battalion area and that may have included people who gathered information and that information could consist of of all things that tattooed. Serial number tattooed on the inside of the left ear of the talk.

22:49 And so, that's the only place other than it's his military records which were in the veterinary. I don't want to, I don't want to accuse anybody. Just when you have a lot of people around, they might have access might have left the file open. We are first assignment together. Was to go up to around the DMZ side x in Quang Tri airstrip.

23:23 And,

23:25 We get up there and we can listen to Hanoi Hannah or screws. She was the radio person who provided us with all of our music and she said and welcome to Vietnam.

23:38 Parc Howard, Thomas, and tiger on a 20. And I got a long time ahead of me so that the enemy would know then.

23:58 Alright, so

24:01 So for most of your time in Vietnam, you were with tiger. What are some memories that you you would like to share the archives for that the kids of your time with tiger?

24:21 The combatants is not something that plenty of people who comments, or it's the, the seemingly suet.

24:34 And mundane but ridiculous things to happen in the combat zone of all places when tiger and I got up to idexx. It was a big, big two, dog teams going at one time to cover the airstrip and frequently enough tours of the enemy. And so I'm just as cute as can be. I mean, I'm just brand new to the country. So I take tiger and warlock walking along the times and I'm not paying attention, and then I go.

25:12 The road is paved.

25:15 And I'm just walking along, Tigers, going to play in the way and it turns out that we were walking down Highway 1.

25:26 In North and South Vietnam, it's not the maybe we shouldn't be doing this and I turned around and the people at the gate though. We didn't think you should be doing that. You could have called me back. But luckily we made it back. So that's

25:55 Silliness another time.

25:59 Eras walking along and this is later on in my ear when we were walking point for a combined action platoon. And for whatever reason, I'm not paying attention to your life and tiger typically goes in a straight line. He always calls on his collar for whatever reason. He straight off to the side for a little bit and then came, like maybe like a circle around and I kept on walking stick and don't I fall into a very old Monday to it, likely they were so old that I hit them, they broke up to my armpit.

26:43 And the dogs. They're gonna come back to me. It looks me. Like, are you dumb fool? Weren't you paying attention? I was showing you and then everybody on the controllers, for the lack of response because because it was quite funny.

27:00 Those are some of them there is other things, too.

27:06 Yeah, I actually don't know how much time we have. So it I'm not sure.

27:16 Okay, any other stories?

27:29 We weren't I wasn't with tiger. I just thought I was with the 7th Marine regiment. We were guarding a bridge because Centre dog handler has worked mostly night. I have a days off. And so one time I came fast friends with three of the members of that platoon 7th, Marine. I still haven't made it home.

27:54 Maybe not cold, made it home alive, and they just, they had to go out on patrol. I said I'll go with you.

28:04 And I didn't think about that load of me up. I look like some kind of cartoon character with. I had like four hundred rounds of M60. Machine gunner, ammo standard across my chest, flak jacket on Alma. And because I was in the Mist Patrol, I was in the system machine gunner. I carried a pistol. We go out on a patrol. It was gone for hours. I made sure tiger Saturn, waternoose comfortable. And I go out and I come and we're coming back and usually with a machine-gun you set up the automatic weapons so that people can go across an open space with protection from the automatic weapons.

28:53 So we were the last ones to cross this right back.

28:58 And so I was the first of the machine gun came to to go across and I'm running water. Very dirty water.

29:12 And later on, I mean, scrambled my way out. I was able to crawl up the side of it because it had a gradual grade do it. But the people on the patrol said all they could see was Howie and then the next thing all I see is his helmet bobbing Bobby and then sinks. Luckily. It fell right next to happen. Are laughing. Thanks a lot at my expense. I get back and my sergeant because there was a sergeant he was angry.

29:53 He said, if you do that again, you'll be lucky. If I just bring you up on charges that I should shoot you. If you ever leave me with that crazy, dog of yours. Again, I'll shoot you first. Do that again.

30:12 He is because he knew that dog didn't have any love for him.

30:19 So, so how were you able to care for tiger as a dog? As a pet, when we were walking primitive. I had to take a cigarette smoke on the perimeter of shot. And then, later on, after our time is up for the night, come back in, and I'd read my mail.

30:56 I'd rather throw him in love the interesting.

31:06 How did you feed him? And give him water and Veterinary? Care. Groom him? You didn't have to exercise them before they got plenty of exercise and make sure that they had their medication. If they were on medication or Salve that you had a spot on their fur and dog food or your brought it with you. When you first went brought, everything you need it. For at least a week's worth of work, which means you were walking junkyard. You sounded like it. Thank you. Thanking, you got it. What about? You get food, bucket. You got to believe she got a choke chain. You got muscles. You got your own rifle, your own, all your equipment and said you were basically sound like,

32:07 You had enough food, they gave you can food, but you typically might run out. So I need a says, it's just go to the nearest, a mess hall and ask for, can't can't. And so we got used to that me to open it up. And we tell the people we without here's a dog's food, not telling them. It's hash. So, typically we talked with him. I don't hang up and I have a couple of Scoops, ever, got ready to go, and then I can give it to the dog.

32:50 How did how did you both rest?

32:54 Did he come back to a kennel at the end of the day? If you were going to a new perimeter or new position, you had to prepare your dog sandbagged bunker, and you took care of him. You didn't take care of yourself. So we didn't have any amenities.

33:22 So how did he sleep? Or what? Were you able to sleep when you were out in the bush scouting? We were, they realize that we put in a Long Day's worth of work and the Infantry with them fell asleep for About Tonight by watching for and typically I and I put my stuff down, lay down and tiger would just put them up by the Montage on top of it. And oh, yeah, one dog night.

34:02 Okay. Well, so

34:10 Do you think your relationship with tiger impacted your relation or was different than other soldiers? Were not closest companion your best buddy was your talk with no questions, especially because dogs. Typically, allow anybody else to come here? You were, you able to make friends with the other if we were able to put with the other people? Or we could have a talk with us, even when they were modeled. They would want to attack somebody in and do all that growls and snacks. So you couldn't be close to them if a dog near you

35:10 Coral, only point.

35:15 Alright, so do you think your relationship with tiger influence your civilian life? When you returned home and your chosen profession? Before I even went in there that I was interested in working with wildlife. And so it was fortuitous that I was able to come a dog handler because it would my relationship.

35:49 Other than humans are so giving, I did nothing to distract me from working going and choosing my profession. It actually probably

36:03 Do you think it was a benefit to have been a dog handler and you look back and and think that that was a lucky break or or I think so. Or I think everybody 3

36:17 Could be that the other two Endeavors is a combat engineer. They blow things up. Sometimes things are blowup, kalema to and are we know all about Rifleman air job at dog. Handler doesn't know what you're doing. So I think it was good and I'm very proud of it. Very, very dear place in my heart.

36:57 Could you say how he did? The alerting mean, did he protect other Murray? And we was at his job to protect the other Marine Marines or you're working with a to feel somewhat relaxed because we were able to detect enemy fire before it far before. The enemy knew we were, we were our otherwise, let the people know, when the perimeter that there's nothing out there, that's allowing them to be a little more relaxed. Are you need all the sleep? You can get sour. We can allow them to get a good night sleep. It was a job. Well.

37:43 How would you know what would tiger do that? You knew you were in danger of the dogs 2 years? Just look like a b side on a rifle right between the year that you know exactly where they pointed. They stop you typically stiffen the head goes where and it's facing right towards the enemy. And depending on how far away it is, the can try to head towards the alert. But if they're very close, it's like

38:24 He's very, very excited. You have to pay attention cuz if you don't

38:40 You want he or anybody else can get you out of the situation?

38:46 Oh, no, he didn't have to get us out of a situation. That seems intrusive. Our job is a sergeant or Lieutenant. We have something out there where it is. How far how far away do you say? Okay, we're going back to the middle. You guys do your job and four Walker at least six feet away from anybody else enemy or friend, Rafael urdaneta matter.

39:27 Is there anything else you'd like to add about being over there or coming coming home?

39:41 Sorry that I came home a little earlier than expected, but coming home was.

39:49 Someone shot. Because my best friend in high school by the paint, Joe over there, just as ours, be sent home as well. And that wasn't good.

40:00 Heading back to me.

40:04 Nothing other name on it.

40:07 So he was drafted into the army in the 25th, Infantry Division.

40:15 He was infantry. So I he did his job and he died doing it.

40:20 I remember before, I

40:24 Went to dog school in July of 67. I had 30 days of leave to go, go to dog school and then go over to Vietnam.

40:46 I want to see you when I get back.

40:52 I never got the chance.

40:55 Yeah, that I didn't text me more than what happened to me.

41:16 Welder.

41:26 How did you find out about his death?

41:29 It was mail from the hometown was delayed in getting to me because I was in Japan and terrorism.

41:42 San Francisco.

41:47 San Francisco, Japantown San Francisco, and it caught up with me.

41:57 Are just reported by the Town Newspaper that have been killed.

42:07 How, how did you come to be in the hospital? Close to?

42:13 Sniper will leave it at that.

42:19 Famous Amos. Never be third on a match. I was and I gave new meaning to cigarette smoke. Some action. I got shot, the grading, gunshot wound to the head and then later on from shrapnel and it just became a mess.

42:45 We can wrap up whenever you're ready, if you have any other questions.

43:02 What what would you say are some important lessons you've learned from serving in the Marines during the Vietnam war?

43:15 Odious.

43:17 The task be in terms of politically correct or not.

43:23 There's something more important than your individual out individuality and you serve a common good and being forced even greater experience.

43:41 Can you describe something?

43:45 That you were proud of particularly proud of that. I was a Marine.

43:53 Have the dog handler.

43:55 I wasn't perfect but I try to do the best I could and that's

43:59 Provide enough right there.

44:02 Could you describe the combined action? When you, when you went to communities, find a squad of Marines and Navy corpsman in about 40 to 50 popular forces Vietnamese troops to guard the village in which you live your life depended on each other? Cuz if you didn't trust each other and value each other, somebody is going to die for us cuz we're very small.

44:40 But it provided us with a great deal of access to Vietnamese civilians, which gave us.

44:48 Culture.

44:56 About what a politician say, or the big concept of War. All they were farmers who just wanted to defend their way of life. That Filly, can they did it. They were very heroic when they were fighting for their own family talked about the corpsman, the Navy corpsman, and was it a corpsman. Well, when you were injured seem to remember a story about a corpsman next, to you in the hospital.

45:33 Basically, when I was injured woke up in the hospital corpsman was there, and he was laying in the bed. And then I asked him, what happened. I was laying down. I was able to move and he was laying down on his belly. He wasn't able to mow and I asked him, what happened. He says it was like that's was fat in a while covering Moran.

46:03 Don't know what you do that. I don't know later on.

46:16 So they they covered you physically. So yeah, I just thinking of a Navy corpsman covered you up. Tiger covered you up at night.

46:40 I think that's a lot to talk about one day. Yeah.

46:45 We'll probably wrap up.