Lindsey Brown and Phil Shuler

[00:03] PHIL SCHULER: Hey. My name is Phil. I am 46 years old. Today's date is October 23, 2024. I'm at the Columbus State University Communications department and I am here with Lindsay my One Small Step conversation partner.

[00:19] LINDSAY BROWN: And my name is Lindsay I'm 40 years old. The date is October 23rd, 2024. I'm at Columbus State University and I'm here with Phil, my one small step conversation partner.

[00:33] PHIL SCHULER: Lindsey's Bio I am the oldest of three girls and grew up in the county, a rural suburb in Georgia. I believe the single biggest thing that shaped my life was losing my father at age 12. I believe in God, Christian, but find it very difficult to be involved in organized religious. I've been married for nine years and have one daughter. I make a point to spend a lot of time with family and friends. In many aspects of my life, I am the one speaking up for others, especially the less fortunate.

[01:06] LINDSAY BROWN: Phil's bio I am a husband of one wife and father of seven children, two which currently are in college. I enjoy spending time with God every day in Bible reading and prayer and desire to serve him as my Creator and Redeemer. I love people and especially love helping others through teaching, which I do often in many different ways. I'm very active in my church and in the broader community here in Columbus. I'm in vocational ministry and also work a full time second job in the secular workforce. I'm a part of Rotary.

[01:46] PHIL SCHULER: All right, so Lindsay why did you want to participate in a One Small Step conversation?

[01:53] LINDSAY BROWN: So, having grown up in Columbus, Georgia, basically I find that I view things a lot different than a lot of people around me, a lot of people from the South, I guess, specifically. And so I would like to find ways to try to understand people better. And also in an environment where it doesn't involve yelling or people getting angry. I just would like to get to know the person that's good. And what about you? Why did you want to participate in One Small Step?

[02:28] PHIL SCHULER: I love learning. I know I have a lot to learn and I know that I view things through just the perspective that I hold from experience and things that have shaped my life. And I want to understand, I want to understand why people see things differently or view things differently or believe things differently. So I just, I love learning and so I'm all about getting to know people and hearing new perspectives. So Lindsay I was going to ask you, I would love to learn a little bit more about your upbringing. I know that you said one of the things that really shaped your life was losing Your Dad at age 12, I can only imagine. I mean, I understand statistics and things of how, you know, kids growing up without fathers, how it affects their lives. But you had a father around until you're 12 and I don't know, like was your mother and father were together and then just would you share a little bit more about maybe your upbringing and how that, how that influenced your life?

[03:38] LINDSAY BROWN: As my father said, I'm the oldest of three girls and my mom was, I guess the typical 80s 90s. Mom stayed at home with the kids, my dad went to work. He was actually a court reporter, which is what got me interested in law. I used to go to court with him and sit up front with the judge.

[03:55] PHIL SCHULER: Wow.

[03:56] LINDSAY BROWN: So that's what started my passion, I guess. That's awesome. But little did I know as a 12 year old that he apparently suffered from pretty bad depression and he actually took his own life. So it was not something that obviously us kids saw coming. But I don't know that my mom could have even seen it coming because especially back then, talking about your feelings and emotions wasn't, especially for men, wasn't as big of a push as it is now, I think. And so she basically just had to go back out in the workforce with only a high school diploma and having been a stay at home mom. So the first big influence was I saw that and I was told myself if anything ever happens, once I have children, I want to be able to take care of myself. So that's why I really wanted to go to college and go even more and go to law school because if something happened, I wanted to be able to take care of me and my family. And my mom did a great job. I mean we're all, we all three turned out just fine. And I, looking back, I only have one child. I don't know how she did three by herself. So she gets a huge big thank you for making sure that we turned out okay.

[05:11] PHIL SCHULER: So I guess before that point, it sounds like you had a good family. Good. Yeah. That's awesome.

[05:18] LINDSAY BROWN: Yeah, we were involved in sports and we went to church and my dad worked and my mom stayed home and we, you know, lived out on a little bit of land and played in the creek all the time.

[05:29] PHIL SCHULER: Wow. So you and your sisters are pretty close. Like you guys stayed pretty close through the years?

[05:34] LINDSAY BROWN: Yes, we're, I feel like an abnormally close family as much as we see each other, but that's just, we've always had each other and we've just kind of continued that. And I Think because we're all girls, my husband's one of all boys. And it is not the same. We communicate a lot more. But yes, I'm very, very lucky to have them and be so close to them. And what about you? How.

[06:04] PHIL SCHULER: I had, I had a very, I guess, traditional Christian upbringing. Both my parents, they're not perfect, but they were good parents, good marriage. They worked together in raising us kids, discipline and just teaching us the right way that we should live. Grew up in church, always in church for my entire life. I have three siblings, two brothers and a sister. And yeah, it just, I know that my upbringing had a huge influence on really the way that I view the world, the things that I believe. I guess mainly in the sense that it was my upbringing that led me to a relationship with Jesus, who is my Lord and Savior. And that is the single great, greatest influence in my life. But yeah, so just seeing them and learning some things that I got married, there are things I would do differently. But it's. It was a good. I have a good family, you know, and I think family, family is important. Don't always get along with my brothers. I mean, we love each other, but we avoid conversation sometimes just because we just don't see eye to eye. And some of us are very stubborn and myself included.

[07:35] LINDSAY BROWN: I understand that I'm pretty stubborn, but I've tried to get better as I've gotten older at listening more.

[07:43] PHIL SCHULER: Yeah, yeah.

[07:45] LINDSAY BROWN: And seven kids. Oh my gosh.

[07:47] PHIL SCHULER: It's insane. Yeah. My wife and I knew when we started dating, we knew we wanted a lot of kids. We had talked about having 10, but then we started realizing just how much work it was and how big a car you needed. Yeah. Yeah. So she wanted to be done at six and somehow I kind of really strongly persuaded her into seven. And she didn't like me for quite a while after that. It was probably about seven months. The youngest was seven months old and she was just holding her and just loving her. And she's like, I just love our youngest baby. And I said, you're welcome. I'm not sure that was the right response.

[08:29] LINDSAY BROWN: That must be a husband thing because my husband does that all the time. You're welcome. Well, I only have one, but I definitely couldn't do seven. I think we're all made for different things in life. And I don't know that I could have handled seven, but.

[08:46] PHIL SCHULER: Well, one's a full time job too. I mean, one kid is 24 hour a day job and you have to.

[08:51] LINDSAY BROWN: Play all the time because they have no one to play with.

[08:53] PHIL SCHULER: Well, now, that's probably the more difficult thing about only having one as opposed to maybe two or a few more. Yeah. Like you have to entertain more.

[09:01] LINDSAY BROWN: Yes, yes. Was there a moment you witnessed or experienced that most influenced your political beliefs? Well, I believe that's your upbringing and your. Your faith. I would imagine those.

[09:20] PHIL SCHULER: Yeah, 100%. I mean, as far as a single moment out, I mean, those are the greatest influencing factors. But moments in my life that maybe have influenced things. I mean, obviously, I would say that September 11, the attack from the terrorists. I was a young adult, newly married at the time. That was, I think, a formative experience that kind of shaped and maybe more firmly rooted some of my conservative beliefs around the nature of defending our country and truth and just good and evil. I think we've lost a lot of that perspective today in our society about what's good and what's evil, and we call evil good, and we call good evil. And I would say that that day and what happened helped to continue to shape and just the way that I believe things like that. How about for you? Is there a moment that you witnessed or something that you experienced that really has been the greatest influencing factor for your political beliefs?

[10:36] LINDSAY BROWN: Well, it basically, as my bio said, always goes back to the situation with my dad. I remember him being more conservative, basically, because I remember him yelling at the TV at Bill Clinton. But that just stands out to me. But as I've gotten older, I've kind of gone the opposite way. And I would think, I think it's because, for example, my mom was left by herself with no work experience. We got zero insurance because of the way my dad died. So she had to just go get a job. And she didn't automatically have enough money to raise three girls and try to keep us in a, you know, a home and feed us. So we had to use things like, I don't remember ever having to have food stamps, but we had to use the state health care for, you know, so we could go to the doctor and things like that. So I know. I feel like a lot of times poorer people get a bad rap and, oh, they're just using the system or they could do better if they wanted to, or. But I saw my mom working her behind off and barely making ends meet. And for that period in our life, we needed help. We just. I don't know where we would have been without things like that. So I always want to err on the side of giving people too much than making them suffer just because I don't agree with them getting something.

[12:08] PHIL SCHULER: Yeah. Wow.

[12:10] LINDSAY BROWN: So that's. That's probably the biggest.

[12:13] PHIL SCHULER: That's fascinating to me.

[12:14] LINDSAY BROWN: And then also, even though, as I've said, you know, I believe in God and I want to be able to practice my religion, I'm also an attorney, and I firmly believe in the separation of church and state. So I try, when I vote, I try to do it in a way that doesn't force what I believe on other people, which is also kind of why I've gone a little more away from the more conservative side.

[12:39] PHIL SCHULER: Okay. So it's interesting that you referenced Bill Clinton. I remember when I was a senior in high school, my dad, he was in the Navy for a while, but he had gotten out and he worked most of his life civil service, and he was working in the shipyards at Charleston. And Bill Clinton closed down a lot of our Navy bases, and that was one of them. So I just remember my momma bad talking him a little bit. You know, we got to move and, you know, my dad got a job down at Fort Benning, and. But it's interesting that it's the Bill Clinton. There's that connection, you know, in both our families and homes and. Yeah. So I would love to ask you, because I want to understand. So I'm very conservative, like, and that's really rooted in just really the Bible and what I believe. But so I would be on the conservative side of the spectrum. You would say. Were you more kind of on the liberal side, like Democratic side? I guess. Is that. Did you describe yourself in that way?

[13:41] LINDSAY BROWN: If I didn't have to categorize myself as Republican or Democrat, I wouldn't. There's things I strongly disagree with both of them, but if I had to pick one, it's going to be more on the liberal side. It's. Yeah, I'm more of a lift.

[13:58] PHIL SCHULER: You said that the influencing factor was just that your family needed help, and you feel like maybe that side of the spectrum is more helping towards, like, financial needs or that.

[14:12] LINDSAY BROWN: Like I said, I don't. It's hard to trust anybody once they get to the political levels. You feel like they're all saying things that they just want you to vote for them. So it's hard to tell all the time who's telling the truth and who's just trying to get your. Well, they're all trying to get your vote, but just things like Social Security. I feel like, you know, older people, you get to a point you're gonna. You might need a little help Unless you were just very fortunate in life and able to save a ton on retirement, which is harder and harder to do these days. And, yes, I do. I think there needs to be food stamps and I think there needs to be helpful help with health care and all those kind of things. I've. My family's had a lot of health issues that I've seen how much it can put you in debt when you're really just trying your best. And I feel like the left is a little better at trying to provide those kind of things that people in need, need access to.

[15:09] PHIL SCHULER: Yeah. Okay, so how does you. How does your faith and your spiritual beliefs. How does that influence your political perspective?

[15:22] LINDSAY BROWN: So I'm actually, you know, everybody these days, I feel like, is pretty involved with social media. I'm actually in several Christian Democrat groups because to me, I think the biggest thing from a religious perspective is I'm afraid to say the word, the abortion issue. But to me, when I look at it, it's like, as long as you say the word abortion and then the people that are voting Republican right now, I feel like that's the only thing they consider and they forget everything else that the Bible or Jesus said about taking care of people and being kind to people and welcoming your neighbor and welcoming the immigrant and welcoming, you know, being there for people. I just feel like that's all forgotten and it just. That's part I have a hard time understanding.

[16:16] PHIL SCHULER: Yeah, that is. That is interesting. I. And I wish. I wish we could do a better job in our society. And I agree with you that we need to love people like we need to. Sometimes people just. They go through a period when they need help. I feel like we are failing in so many ways. Just. I know that my faith deeply impacts my political beliefs, and I tend to lean more on the. Just. I guess to me it seems clearer, like, what's right, what's wrong? I do lean on, I think, the whole abortion issue. We particularly on the liberal side, they ignore the life of the baby. And I think it's purposefully phrased in a very misleading manner all about reproductive rights and a woman's choice, with very few exceptions of maybe something like a rape. There's a choice that's made before a baby could ever be born. So to me, I think that's very misleading. And I just feel. I feel like every life is valued and the life of a baby is just as valuable, But I think that's forgotten. I agree 100% that I think the conservative side needs to do better at Taking at just showing love. Because you're right, love. Like we're supposed to love people. I think there's a better balance we could find of helping people with the means to make it through a temporary time, but also helping them with the lessons that can help them pick up and carry on better in the future.

[18:13] LINDSAY BROWN: Oh, absolutely. There needs to be more programs that teach, that help with if there's mental health or addiction issues. I would say at least 50% of my clients that I represented in the public defender's office have mental health or addiction issues or both. A lot of them try to self medicate when they can't get the proper mental health medication. So I definitely think there needs to be more rehab, more mental health services, which right now most people of lower means cannot afford, and then things like teaching them how to handle their finances, teaching them how to get a job. Those communities, I feel like, need to do a better job. And then the poverty level would go down and there wouldn't be so much crime. Most of the crime that occurs is that they're in specific areas of town, in very poor areas, and they just continue and continue because there's a cycle they can't get out of. So instead of just pointing the blame, oh, it's their fault, it's their fault. Let's come together and figure out a way to help and stop it from happening.

[19:15] PHIL SCHULER: Oh, yeah, you're right. One of my many jobs, of course, is with Safe House Ministries. And Safe House is a huge nonprofit in the Columbus area that helps those that are dealing with addiction and homelessness. I mean, more than 200 people a night are in one of our shelters. There is a substance abuse treatment program. It's entirely free, state licensed, high quality. There's no cost, and there's no wait list. Because I believe. And the founder and those that work at Safehouse believe that we need to help people more. I mean, it's just. I can. I can only imagine what it would be like. You know, the podcast I do every week is people sharing their stories coming from, like, just tragic stories of what they grew up in and what their home life was like, and then starting addiction at an early age and just the darkness and bondage of being in addiction and. And oftentimes we are so quick to judge, like, why are you doing that? You shouldn't be doing that. Just stop doing that. Right? You know, go get a job or stop doing. We have no idea. No understanding of the depth of the depth of brokenness and tragedy and hurt and how hard it actually is to come out of that. I know if we're. Were I to have grown up in a situation like so many other people have grown up in and then to see them doing so well on the other side in victory, I don't know if I would have been able to get through it like that. I mean, it's just, it's, I think, to me, I think we should oftentimes look instead and say, look where this person is now compared to where they used to be. Not compared to how well I'm doing or how well someone else is doing or how. Or how I think they should be, but where they are now, man. So often it's way farther ahead than where they used to be. But instead of seeing that you're right, we just judge people and say, you're kind of being worthless, you should be way up here. Why are you not way up here? But we don't understand how far they've come from where they used to be.

[21:27] LINDSAY BROWN: Right. And one of my favorite, I don't even know who quoted it or where it came from, but I've seen it a few times recently is we do not see people as they are. We see them as we are. So if you've never lived that kind of life or been in that position, you don't, you probably can't fully understand unless you're going to take the time to talk to them or try to figure it out.

[21:47] PHIL SCHULER: Yeah, you're right. That was one of the things that I'm grateful to the Lord that he helped me see this. I have recognized that. I saw that, you know, as I grew up in some of my family members, kind of the judgment of this person's not doing right and they should be doing X, they're doing X, they should be doing Y and they just need to stop and fix. And I have begun to understand, well, yeah, maybe they're not doing what's right, but what's the reason and how can we help them? It just, yeah, just not trying to not be as quick to judge. But I know that's a flaw that I struggle with still, just that quickness to judge. But I am endeavoring the older I get to be open minded and understanding and I want to help people, you know, and when you judge someone out of the gate, they're not going to listen to you so you're not going to be able to help them. And so it's counterproductive.

[22:46] LINDSAY BROWN: I agree with that 100%. Let's see. So we both live in or near Columbus what do you think Columbus is doing? Well. And what do you think we need to improve? We kind of touched on that a little bit. But is there anything else you think we should add?

[23:03] PHIL SCHULER: Columbus is a. Is an interesting place. It's a very split demographic. And it's interesting. We were talking earlier about income and the differences, the disparity of incomes and really it's. The discrimination in our society is not as much related to race or other things as it is really related to income disparity. And just people that don't have money are treated very differently from people that do have money.

[23:32] LINDSAY BROWN: Yes.

[23:33] PHIL SCHULER: And I think Columbus has a large population of lower income people. It is a challenging arena. I think we could do better with our money management in the city. I think we could not squander money on certain things that are of little value and we could take more money and use it in better places.

[23:55] LINDSAY BROWN: You mean we don't need another road page?

[23:58] PHIL SCHULER: Yeah. Or another $50 million for a minor league baseball team with the strangest name you've ever heard.

[24:05] LINDSAY BROWN: I'm just hoping that'll bring a lot in from the Braves. I don't know. I don't know about all that stuff. I. Out of my wheelhouse, I guess. But yes. Um, I. Yes. And not just Columbus, but the surrounding areas. I've done a lot of work in the outer counties where people may somewhat look a little different, but there's still a lot of people out there that have no money and no support system. And just seeing that for the past 10 years and in the courtroom and you know, a person with money gets out of jail immediately, almost. And then you have people that can't even make a thousand dollar bond that sit there for months and months and months and it could be literally the same charge. And it's just to me, when you're talking about right and wrong, that's just wrong. Just because you don't have money doesn't mean you should have to sit there in jail for months on end.

[25:00] PHIL SCHULER: 100%. And I don't know that it's just related to Columbus.

[25:06] LINDSAY BROWN: No, I think that's a nationwide thing.

[25:08] PHIL SCHULER: But I have a friend who used to work as a guard in the Muskogee County Jail, and he shared with me that there were people that were in there for years.

[25:20] LINDSAY BROWN: Yes.

[25:20] PHIL SCHULER: Before they even had their day in court.

[25:22] LINDSAY BROWN: Exactly.

[25:23] PHIL SCHULER: How is that even. Just how is that even legal? Like, how can we hold someone in court for years without even giving them their day in court to say whether they're even guilty or not exactly. That is.

[25:38] LINDSAY BROWN: As you know, from my perspective, what you have to do is you keep going back every 60, 90 days trying to get lower bonds, lower bonds, lower bonds. And you're like, this person can't make any bond. They have no one on the outside to help them. And then they just sit there for years and years until there's a trial or you.

[25:57] PHIL SCHULER: You'll have to help me. Because it. In a situation like that, it's. I am. It's so easy for me to be judgmental of the court system, the judges, like, I don't know, you should. I mean, are they. Are they like, oh, I don't have any more time see hear cases. I got to go be on the golf. I mean, I don't know what. I'm just. I don't want to judge, and I don't know what all the details are. But surely there's a way that we can do better. Like, surely there is.

[26:22] LINDSAY BROWN: If we could sit down with the judges and all of the people involved in the legal community, I think we could come up with a better solution than what we have. But you have certain people in certain positions, and they just want to do what they want to do, and they don't want to listen to the little person. So until that. No, they're willing to do that. I don't know how you fix it, to be honest with you. But, yes, it's not good. It needs to be. It needs to be fixed because you're not only is that person sitting there and you're affecting their life when, like you said, they haven't even been found guilty of anything, you're also having to use taxpayer money to house them, and.

[26:59] PHIL SCHULER: There'S children that don't have a father or a mother. And I mean, you are affecting a lot of people's lives.

[27:06] LINDSAY BROWN: Yes, you are.

[27:07] PHIL SCHULER: Well, we are. By doing that to them.

[27:08] LINDSAY BROWN: Yes.

[27:09] PHIL SCHULER: So I don't know if you have any suggestions on what the average person can do to help try to positively influence and change that.

[27:16] LINDSAY BROWN: Oh, now you put me on a mission.

[27:19] PHIL SCHULER: I mean, I think you have a. You. You shared that you worked on both sides of that table in prosecution as well as in defense. So I think you probably more than most have a good understanding of that system and probably what needs to change.

[27:35] LINDSAY BROWN: I have some ideas floating around.

[27:38] PHIL SCHULER: Well, share. Don't keep them hidden.

[27:40] LINDSAY BROWN: You know, I might have to come up with a whole memo on that. There's just. I mean, like I said, we. People need to listen to each side. I mean, the DA's office blames the defense attorneys and the defense attorneys blame the DA's office. And really you could just sit down and say, well, what one thing could we do here to make this better? And what one thing could we do here to make this better? And nobody, everybody's too busy running around doing their jobs that they won't pay attention and listen and figure it out.

[28:10] PHIL SCHULER: But yeah. Wow, so many. Let me ask this. You mentioned mental illness and mental health. I would love to get your perspective. I believe that many things contribute to mental health, but I believe part of the root cause that is causing a great increase in mental health problems in our country is the way that we are encouraging people to disassociate from reality, to just believe whatever you want to believe, it doesn't matter. And I think it causes an internal struggle in the person's life that leads to greater mental illness and greater struggles. What do you think are some of the root causes to why there's such an increase in mental illness?

[29:06] LINDSAY BROWN: So I'm gonna. I guess I need a little bit more direction in what you're talking about.

[29:12] PHIL SCHULER: So there's many, there are many things that I guess play into that. I think one is the agenda of our society to encourage people to, to disconnect from biological reality sometimes. But I think when I do that, like I am what I am, but if I want to believe that I'm not what I am, I think that causes mental distress. And that's just one of lots of factors. I think that when we. Because of my faith, I think that when we push God out of the equation and we try to solve our own problems in our own human thinking, I think we fail at that and we lose sight of the wisdom that's already given to us in the word of God, but also just the wisdom in the natural world, the reality.

[30:11] LINDSAY BROWN: I guess it kind of depends on what type of mental illness you're referring to. Because, for example, I know some people that are very devout Christians, you know, very close to God, and they still suffer from things like anxiety and depression. Things, you know, which I think that's a. First of all, our society has gotten so gotta do, do, do, do do, fast paced, that I think that gives a lot of people anxiety because our brains, you're right, we're not necessarily made to move and take in that much information that quickly. Yeah, every day, all day. Social media does not help. There's so many kids now that have such bad depression and anxiety. And I equate a lot of that to social Media. But I don't like. I guess I don't want to make assumptions about why people. So the first thing that came to my mind, which is another hot topic, is the transgender thing, which I know a lot of both sides completely disagree on, and I have tried to look into that, and it's. Apparently they've done brain scans and it shows. Like, men's brains, when you scan them, look different than women's brains. But a lot of times with people that are consider themselves transgendered, their brain will scan more like the opposite sex than what they were born, which to me sounds just more like a organ thing. I mean, I look at the brain as another organ. And yes, we have a lot more control of what goes in and comes out, and we can do things to help change it, but sometimes you just have to listen to science and listen to. I don't really even know how to explain all that. I just. I just assume that I don't know everything and that one day down the road God's gonna figure it out and that I'm not gonna sit here and treat anyone any differently regardless. So I'm just not even gonna tell people what they should or shouldn't do. I guess that's how I look at it.

[32:16] PHIL SCHULER: Love every. We should love everybody.

[32:18] LINDSAY BROWN: Yes.

[32:19] PHIL SCHULER: I mean, absolutely.

[32:20] LINDSAY BROWN: So honestly, I'm just more of the, you know, let people live their life. If you think that you need to go see a counselor to help with your mental issues, then do it. If you think you need medication, then do it. If you want to get closer to God and feel like that's helping you more, go do it. I'm not telling you what to do.

[32:38] PHIL SCHULER: Yeah. Yeah. And that's. Yeah. Personally, for me, I draw the line with kids, I think in that issue particularly, it does harm and abuse to kids to use hormone blockers or other things or try to have surgeries.

[32:57] LINDSAY BROWN: Well, now this is something that we both can agree on because me and my husband have had. You know, once you have kids, you start having more conversations about things. What are we going to do if this happens? What are we going to do if this. And I. I honestly wish that people wouldn't even get married until they were 25, because your brain does not fully develop until you're 25. And I don't think you should be making any lifelong impact decisions until your brain's fully developed. So it goes with marriage, and to me, it goes with that. Like, don't make major medical decisions like this unless they're life saving until you have the capacity to make 100% informed decision.

[33:37] PHIL SCHULER: It's so interesting. Like, we are. It's so interesting because there's so many things that, like, just the other day I was having a conversation with my kids and we were talking about how that your brain is not fully developed until you're like 25, 26.

[33:51] LINDSAY BROWN: Yes.

[33:52] PHIL SCHULER: And it's so true, and I agree with you, but it's so bad now. And one of the things that I am so deeply bothered about is the political side of our country that is not only trying to push and encourage, oh, let's do these hormone blockers, let's let these kids have these surgeries and mutilate their bodies. But there are cases where they don't even want to tell their parents or they don't even have their parents involvement. And parents are responsible for the kids, and parents are the people that are the authority and the ones that are best suited to make decisions to help their kids to love their kids. Yes. Not all parents are perfect. I get that, and I know that. But by and large, parents are the ones that make decisions for the kids, not our society. Parents should be the ones that are involved with their teenage daughters and what's happening when they're pregnant. And our schools should not take a girl to get an abortion or take a kid to get a. A body change. That's a serious thing. And try to not even tell the parents and, or get permission from the parents. That is. That is just. It's almost Orwellian to me. I mean, it's crazy.

[35:15] LINDSAY BROWN: I just don't know how much that's act. Like, I don't think a school would take a kid, like, to do. I mean, my. They won't even give my kid an ibuprofen without calling and asking me.

[35:31] PHIL SCHULER: We are in Georgia, though. It's a little different. Georgia's a little more concerned.

[35:35] LINDSAY BROWN: Like, my sister lives up in Maryland and I have. I went to law school up in Massachusetts. Like, I've been around. I've been all over the place, and I don't know anywhere that's doing anything like that. So I think sometimes in the politics of it all, it gets blown out. Like, oh, this is just happening everywhere. This is being allowed to happen. I don't know that it really is happening like that.

[35:57] PHIL SCHULER: It may be rare or it may be more that it's being talked about. Like, we want to do this. We want to pass laws, we want to pass legislation. Those kinds of things, I think, are in the work. I don't have any specific Statistics to reference other than I think it is being talked about, like you mentioned. And there are politicians that want to enact legislation that would allow such things to happen. I just want to draw us back to personal experience.

[36:33] LINDSAY BROWN: What are your hopes for the future, both personally and politically?

[36:39] PHIL SCHULER: Well, my greatest hope would be that more people would come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. I think living in this world is wonderful. There's so many blessings and benefits. But if all you do is live in this world and then you die without Christ, eternity is going to be horrible. And so that's, you know, personally for me, one of my greatest hopes would be that we would. We would be able to. That I would be able to be used of the Lord to help just love people and bring them to an awareness and a saving knowledge of Jesus. And I recognize, in addition to just eternal salvation, that living with Jesus and by what he teaches in the Bible, that has made my life better, that has made my marriage better, that has made my relationship with my kids better, that has made me more successful in my careers and all the many jobs that I have or all the jobs I've had over the years just following biblical principles, it has given me so many greater blessings just in this life. And one of my hopes is just to be able to help others find those blessings. I think I like to. I have a phrase I use where a lot of us in this world go through preventable tragedies. Like sometimes things just happen, but oftentimes things happen in our lives that didn't have to happen. And I think if we go back to. Well, if I would have followed the guide map that I'm given by God, then I could have avoided these situations. You know, one of the things that stands out to me is just the destruction in marriages and families and, and people getting divorced and then fighting over their kids. And it's just. I have a friend, I know someone that. He has been in divorce proceedings for like five or six years. And so the whole life is in limbo and their kids getting a lot older. And it's just. It's horrible. It's broken, it's. And yeah, I just. My heart wants to help people to have a better life, to be more blessed and to just. To have more joy even in this world. How about you? What, what. What would be your hopes for the future?

[39:13] LINDSAY BROWN: I wish first of all that we could go back to. I guess the phrase would be polite politics because I remember before watching both sides talk to each other like they were just human beings and that they didn't have an R or D in front of their name. It would be nice to go back to that where it's not just this crazy yelling back and forth with all the name calling and ugliness. That would be my first hope. As far as the political side, I'd.

[39:39] PHIL SCHULER: Like to see that, too.

[39:40] LINDSAY BROWN: And also, I mean, it's very easy to see how important your religion is to you, but again, from my perspective, from. I believe that people came to the US So they could have religious freedom, and I don't. I want that to continue just as strong as you are about your faith. I have friends that are Jewish and they believe just as strongly about theirs or, you know, other religions. And even though you're always going to go out and try to be a witness and try to bring people to God, you know, they should also be able to practice their religion as they see fit. And I think that's. We've kind of gotten away from the freedom part. It's not just the freedom to do what you want, but the freedom to do what your neighbor wants. And as long as they're not harming anyone, I feel like we need to get more back to that.

[40:30] PHIL SCHULER: Yeah, I agree. We have lost. We've lost a lot in that. We've lost a lot of religious freedom that we used to have and just common decency. It's, you know, it's crazy. Like, you go and you read some of the wordings on the billboards and you hear the way that people talk about each other. It's like they paint the picture that this is such an evil person. Like, they don't talk about the issues or the beliefs. They talk about the people. Like, you're a villain. You know, how can you do this? You're in. It's.

[41:03] LINDSAY BROWN: And that's honestly in the south, how I feel like, oh, well, if you're not. If you're not voting conservative, then you're just going to hell. Or you're like, well, first of all, you don't know what's in my heart. You don't know if I believe in God. You don't know if I've accepted Christ. And you're just going to sit here and say, because I don't have an R in front of my name, that I'm automatically going to hell. That's a bit extreme here. But, yeah, it's. I don't enjoy feeling that way, so I don't want to make other people feel that way. Yeah, Yeah.

[41:34] PHIL SCHULER: I. I used to be on Twitter and I Just deleted my.

[41:38] LINDSAY BROWN: Oh, there's the ugliest on that one.

[41:39] PHIL SCHULER: I would try to have just conversations and disagree and share, but people would get so just ugly.

[41:49] LINDSAY BROWN: We need to go back to the old school. What your mama used to say, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

[41:57] PHIL SCHULER: Yeah, yeah.

[42:00] LINDSAY BROWN: Should we, should we get to the closing questions? Is that kind of where we are? Or maybe one or two more.

[42:09] PHIL SCHULER: Okay, so let me ask you your thoughts on this. So I formerly was a part of a committee, an initiative in Columbus trying to address the issue of fatherlessness. So fatherlessness is a big issue across the entire country. But in Columbus we have a disproportionately higher number of kids who are growing up without a father and it detrimentally affects them.

[42:41] LINDSAY BROWN: Half of them are probably sitting in the jail and can't get a bond.

[42:44] PHIL SCHULER: In fact, you're probably right about that. So what I would love to hear your thoughts on what can we do better maybe here in Columbus. How can we help improve that situation? How can we help improve the situation where we can have fathers involved in their kids lives.

[43:05] LINDSAY BROWN: There? And I can't remember the name of it, but there is this program that I've seen and I believe they have a base here in Columbus or at least a satellite of the program where it's basically fathers helping other fathers or helping children without fathers. I mean, I think that I don't know the way to fix it, but I think one of the things is that the kids that don't have fathers need better role model. Like I know the Boys and Girls Club used to be a lot bigger thing where kids that needed someone to go to have a role model or to not get in trouble after school or things like that could go. And it actually helped a lot of them get out of their situations and get out of poverty. So I think things like that. I don't know how you make fathers be fathers. That's, that's kind of a hard one to have an answer on. Yeah.

[44:00] PHIL SCHULER: The person themselves. Yeah, yeah.

[44:05] LINDSAY BROWN: And again, I just put myself in the mother's shoes too. I'm like, the mother doesn't really have a choice. Like, I mean, most of the time it's the mom that sticks around in those situations and takes care of the kids. You feel bad for them too, having to do it alone. So I don't really know. I don't really know what to do.

[44:23] PHIL SCHULER: Can I ask you. So it seems like you've been married for nine years.

[44:28] LINDSAY BROWN: You said we just had our 10th anniversary. That bio was from my last time.

[44:33] PHIL SCHULER: Yeah. Mine is a little older, too. I have three kids in college now. So what are some things that you feel like have contributed to you and your husband having a successful marriage? Sticking it out. Because I know marriage is not perfect. I've been married for 23 years, and I know there's ups and downs, and I think oftentimes people just give up and they just. But what would you say are maybe some things that have contributed to just a good marriage that you and your husband have.

[45:01] LINDSAY BROWN: We used to fight a lot, actually, before we were married, which at first I was like, okay, maybe this, you know, maybe. Maybe we aren't meant to be together because we are very different people. But we have gotten better as we've gotten older at, again, the listening and asking questions instead of just assuming and yelling. It helped a lot with actually having a child who we never wanted to argue in front of. It made us learn how to just calm ourselves down and have a conversation where we didn't sound annoyed with each other. So that's helped. But also, I think we let. He lets me be me. He doesn't put me in a box or expect me to do specific things, and I don't do that with him. And we just. We get to be ourselves with each other, I feel like. And we support each other, even if we don't always understand it. We try to try to be supportive of each other. And also, we just. He knew when he married me, I had a very strong personality, and I knew the same about him. And we just haven't tried to change that. We just tried to communicate with each other better and be more loving and understanding.

[46:17] PHIL SCHULER: Yeah. You guys share a similar faith.

[46:21] LINDSAY BROWN: Yes, we. We do. Now he's more, I need to find a church to be in. And I'm more like, every time I go to a church, they're calling me names because it's.

[46:31] PHIL SCHULER: That's why you stay away from organized religion. You feel like they. There's judgment and not. They don't. They just don't love and accept you. They just want to judge and try to change you.

[46:42] LINDSAY BROWN: Yes. Or they just, like I said, assume just because I may not vote for specific candidate that I'm just, like, evil and making all the wrong choices. And I'm like, well, I'm doing what. What speaks to me in my heart and what I believe. And I just. Yeah, I have a hard time with that. But, yes, we do both believe in God, and we are both Christians. We just are going about it in different ways, but he tends to vote conservative, and I tend to vote more liberal. And he's an Alabama fan, and I'm a Georgia fan, which is an even bigger issue. Wow. But, yes, for the most part, we're very different people that have found a way to complement each other. I speak up. I get him to speak up more, and he gets me to calm down more.

[47:28] PHIL SCHULER: You guys compliment each other.

[47:29] LINDSAY BROWN: Well, we do. We do.

[47:31] PHIL SCHULER: Yeah. That's good. My heart hurts, and I'm sorry that you've been treated unkindly.

[47:37] LINDSAY BROWN: Thank you. Thank you. That's why I ran away and went to Massachusetts for three years. I had to.

[47:42] PHIL SCHULER: Was that college, or was that law school?

[47:44] LINDSAY BROWN: Okay. But then the weather and the food brought me back here.

[47:49] PHIL SCHULER: You don't have to worry about things like snow as much down here.

[47:52] LINDSAY BROWN: Oh, yeah. It was awful up there. But maybe one of these last closing questions. If we had another hour to chat, what types of things would you hope to discuss?

[48:04] PHIL SCHULER: Lindsay? So many things. I would love to. I would love to hear more about what you've learned about the justice system. Being that you were a prosecutor and a public defender, I think there's so many fascinating things that you could share, because I would love to learn and understand that world better. I mean, I really would love to be a part of trying to help things be fixed and to get better in that world. I really don't have any bandwidth or time with three jobs to actually try to take on another project, But I think you would have a lot of really insightful things to share in that way. So that would be a big thing that I would love to learn more about.

[48:43] LINDSAY BROWN: Mm.

[48:45] PHIL SCHULER: How about you? What. What are some types of things that you would like to continue discussing? If we had more time, I think.

[48:52] LINDSAY BROWN: I would dig a little more into the religious beliefs and how it points you in the direction of certain political belief or political. The way you vote. That's one thing I want to talk to everyone about. But like I said, we can't have these conversations with some people because it just leads to anger and yelling. So it's nice to have someone that can remain calm.

[49:20] PHIL SCHULER: It is nice. I hope and wish that we can get more people that would be able to just have civil conversations.

[49:27] LINDSAY BROWN: Let's just do one little quick. What is something that's bringing you joy lately? Like one sentence?

[49:34] PHIL SCHULER: Being a youth pastor, I just love it. I love. My youth group is growing. I love just seeing the kids, like, they're having fun. They're learning, they're growing. They're asking questions. They're asking me to pray for them about certain things.

[49:51] LINDSAY BROWN: And I just love that mine would be, I have a. Now she's five years old and just seeing her little brain spark when she learns something new, or she'll ask these questions that, you know, as an adult, you might have thought of when you were younger, but. But you'd never think of them now. And you're like, wow, that's a really good question. So it's just bringing a lot of excitement, seeing her little brain grow and develop.

[50:13] PHIL SCHULER: Kids are amazing.

[50:14] LINDSAY BROWN: Yes.

[50:14] PHIL SCHULER: Like, there's like. Yeah, there's so many stories you could tell about kids. Many years ago, I was in the pharmaceutical world and as a pharmaceutical rep, and one of my kids came to me and he was like, dad, you know, when I grow up, I think I want to do what you do. He said, but if I don't do that, you know, I think I might want to work at Sonic, because Sonic, but they are so slow and they don't know how to be fast. So I think I might want to work there and help them with that.

[50:43] LINDSAY BROWN: They are so slow, but they have the best cherry limeade.

[50:46] PHIL SCHULER: I think it was just fascinating to me the way his little brain was.

[50:50] LINDSAY BROWN: Working, trying to fix a problem, to.

[50:51] PHIL SCHULER: Recognize the name of the institution and the contrast between the way that they operate. I thought that was fascinating. But you're right. Kids, they just. They think differently sometimes and they have an awareness that we sometimes lose as adults.

[51:06] LINDSAY BROWN: Well, thank you for coming to speak to me today. It was pleasant. I enjoyed it.

[51:12] PHIL SCHULER: Absolutely. I agree. It was very nice meeting you and getting to talk to you. Lindsay.

[51:35] LINDSAY BROWN: Phil, have any political discussions or arguments strained any of your relationships with friends, family, or co workers?

[51:44] PHIL SCHULER: I would say yes. And I would say not in any serious or major way, but definitely in some minor ways. It's interesting that my dad has very different political beliefs from me, but I think it stems from his. He wants to be taken care of. He's retired. He doesn't want to worry about money and retirement, and so he leans on that. He wants the whole government, healthcare, and so a little bit. Nothing major, though. I mean, we all still love each other and sometimes we just avoid certain conversations.

[52:27] LINDSAY BROWN: Gotcha.

[52:29] PHIL SCHULER: So, Lindsay is there anything about me that surprised you?

[52:38] LINDSAY BROWN: It surprises me that you're able to do as much as you do and have seven kids and be here today and remain sane. But after I read your bio, I feel like you're pretty much kind of what I expected. Phil, is there something about my beliefs that you don't agree with but still respect.

[53:01] PHIL SCHULER: Yeah, there's probably a lot that I don't agree with, but I still respect. It's helpful to understand, though, like, why maybe you have come to those beliefs. But I think it surprises me that we agree on a lot of things, even in those political beliefs, even though maybe there are parts of things that we don't believe on. But then there are other parts that we do agree on. And I think sometimes we agree on a major root thing, but maybe we disagree on the way that we can accomplish that root thing.

[53:37] LINDSAY BROWN: Now, if we could just get everyone to stop watching Fox News and CNN and just talk to each other, maybe we could work some of these things.

[53:46] PHIL SCHULER: The media. The media messes up so much.

[53:50] LINDSAY BROWN: I can. I mean, I feel like just talking to people, if you get into politics is like, oh, you watching cnn? Oh, you're watching Fox News. Because they don't ever. Neither one tells the full truth about anything.

[54:00] PHIL SCHULER: It's crazy. Yeah. I've gotten in the habit of just the news articles on my phone. I just read the headlines and it's amazing, the tremendous bias just in the way that the headline is raised.

[54:12] LINDSAY BROWN: Yes.

[54:13] PHIL SCHULER: It's so clear that it's a purposeful intent for an agenda, not really to relate informational news. So, Lindsay how are you feeling about the upcoming election? What have you noticed or observed over the last several months?

[54:35] LINDSAY BROWN: I've noticed and observed so many commercials and signs that I'm sick of it. I'm quite nervous about the upcoming election. I don't really know. I don't really know how in depth to get on that. I have a major concern separate from ideologies and beliefs, because the Republican candidate just makes me nervous as far as how much anger and hate he seems to stir up. And I don't see that making anything any better. So that's my primary fear. It's not what he believes or what party he's running for. It's more. He just makes me nervous on a human level because I just feel like there's a lot of bullying and anger and hate, and that just weighs very heavy on my heart.

[55:33] PHIL SCHULER: I totally get that. I'm also nervous and I think it's going to be a disaster no matter who wins. I think it's just bad for our country. I think it's been a long time since we've had a really decent option as far as who we can vote for for president.

[55:50] LINDSAY BROWN: Well, we can agree on that.

[55:55] PHIL SCHULER: I tend to try to vote based on Policy, and I feel like the policies are very different. And I think certain policies align more with my biblical beliefs. But I do. I just don't think it's going to be good for us. No matter who wins. It's. Man, I'm nervous. I'm nervous, honestly, about our country's future. Like, I don't know how much America, like, if we are even going to survive. Personally, I believe because of my faith that the end is not far for the whole world, that Jesus is going to return, and that the end times will be here. But even however long that may be, I don't know how much longer America is going to last if we don't really find better people to be our leaders.

[56:43] LINDSAY BROWN: Agreed.

[56:45] PHIL SCHULER: One last question. Same way. Just pose it to each other. I want to know how you discuss politics with your children. And, you know, just like, how do you feel like you influence them? Do you let them make their own choices? And Phil, I'll have you ask Lindsay

[57:06] LINDSAY BROWN: First, and then Lindsay, you can ask.

[57:08] PHIL SCHULER: How do you discuss politics with your children? Okay. So, Lindsay how do you go about discussing politics and political beliefs with your children?

[57:19] LINDSAY BROWN: I wouldn't say we discuss politics with her because she's only five. We just teach. Try to teach her to be kind to everyone and that some people are going to be different than her, and that's okay, and we're going to treat everybody the same way and just basically by the way we live our lives. Children are very observant, a lot more so than you might realize at 5 years old. But she. She sees how we talk to people and what we do for people, and she's. She's picking it up. And whatever decision she makes down the road, like I said, me and my husband are pretty different on things. She'll one day make her own decision, and we'll love her either way.

[58:02] PHIL SCHULER: Awesome.

[58:03] LINDSAY BROWN: And, Phil, what about you? How do you talk to your children about politics?

[58:07] PHIL SCHULER: So in the same way that I try to teach them everything in life, I try to encourage them to make all of their decisions through the filter of what the word of God says. And if something lines up with the Bible, then it's right and they should do that. And if something goes against what the Bible teaches, then they should stand against that. And so we definitely carry that into our political discussions. It is challenging sometimes because you've got the policies that a candidate stands for, and those are needing to line up with the Bible, but then you also have the character of the person, which that needs to line up with the Bible. As well. And so where I'm at these days is often voting for a candidate whose policies line up, even though their personal character might be not great. And so it is difficult sometimes to try to. That's a little more complex to try to get that message across to my kids. And not just to. Not just to be so quick to judge someone, but to say, yes, that's wrong. Maybe they're saying something that's wrong, but don't use such harsh language to talk about them. We still need to be nice. We still need to show respect and kindness. And there's a way to speak that is much better than a way that will just not help anybody.

[59:38] LINDSAY BROWN: Right?