Lisa Lambert and Fredrick Richardson

[00:02] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: I am Lisa Carol Lambert, and my age is 60 this year as of August. Today's date is November 11, 2023. We're in Mobile, Alabama, and my interview partner is Frederick Douglass Richardson. And Frederick is a former city councilman. So he is a former colleague, work colleague, and he is my friend.

[00:32] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: My name is Frederick Douglass Richardson. My age is 84 years of age. Today is November 11, 2023. We are in Mobile, Alabama. I am interviewing Lisa Carol Lambert, currently the city clerk for the city mobile, and she has been my friend down through the years, and I am happy to be the person interviewing her. So, we ready? So, Lisa, this is just a great opportunity for me. Would you like to tell us something about yourself?

[01:17] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Sure, I am. As we said, Lisa. Well, I was born Lisa Eileen Carroll to doctor Lawrence and Annie Mary Carroll on August 14, 1963, right here in Mobile, Alabama. And I grew up here. I went to school here. I graduated from Davidson High School and 1981, and from there, I left mobile, and I went to. Well, actually, I graduated early from high school, and I graduated mid year, and I could have graduated my junior year, but I wanted to stay with my class. So I thought that graduating mid year, you know, would allow me some time to just chill out, relax, and wait for college to start in the fall. Unbeknownst to me, my father had enrolled me at Bishop State Community College to start taking college courses they never had. They didn't know how to even approach this, to do it. They'd never had a high school student enrolled in the college. So I could only take one class, and I took an english class just to get ahead with my english coursework and whatever other coursework I would need to take as a freshman in college. So I was enrolled at Bishop State and going to high school, and it was new for the community college. And, of course, it was a disappointment for me to not have to. To not have the opportunity to sit around the house every day while my friends were in school. So I did that, and I went to bishop state all through the summer until it was time for me to leave and go off to college in the fall.

[03:31] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Okay, outstanding. Outstanding. So, I would just like to back up a little bit, and I would like for you to tell us, what was it like growing up as a child in Mobile, a city that was segregated? Can you tell me something about growing up in the south, in the city? Mobile. And this was a segregated city. Well, was it anything you had to be careful about, you being a minority? Were you cautioned about anything? So surely you couldn't act like everybody else. So were you cautioned about things you could do, things you could not do?

[04:16] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: So, Fred, really, honestly, I don't. I'm not familiar with having been cautioned about anything. When I was young, a small child, my parents and my grandparents, I stayed with my father's mother and father a lot when I was, you know, toddler and young age, up until I started to go to school, they did not. They didn't warn me of anything that I couldn't do. As far as I knew, I could do anything that any other child in the city of mobile could do. My grandmother often took me downtown with her. We went downtown, of course, you know, downtown was where you did everything, all your shopping for your clothes and your furniture and all. And there was one incident that I vaguely recall. My mother actually was talking about it not long ago, and my grandmother was in the furniture store, and she went in to purchase a marble top table. And whatever the store was, they had lots of marble top tables. Apparently, I walked off from my grandmother. She was not one to hold tight onto me or anything like that. But of course, we were told to behave. You don't touch anything. You go in the store, you can look and look around, but don't touch anything. Well, a piece of marble fell, and it fell near me, near me.

[06:01] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: So were you the cause of the.

[06:03] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: I was not. I was not the cause of it. I had not touched it, but for whatever, it fell and it broke. And of course, you know, the store owners like to have had a fit. You know, they panicked because I guess they just thought that my grandparents would naturally want to sue, you know. And of course, everybody was concerned with whether I was injured. I was not. It just frightened me because of, you know, the crash. So with that, they started to offer my grandmother pieces of furniture.

[06:41] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Wow.

[06:41] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Pieces of furniture and discounts and all. And my grandmother assured them that she could pay for it and it was not necessary, whatever. But none of. No, not as a child. As I got older, I would say probably junior high school, I became more aware of people's attitudes and not being accepting of black children or all cultures. And I think that was more because, you know, we grown up and you're more aware. When I was in elementary school, I went to all black schools until, I think it was the third grade. And then we were transferred out to John Will elementary school, and we lived in Tomanville. So John will was all the way out Ziegler Boulevard, and that was quite a trek from Tomanville to bus children to school to go out there at.

[07:50] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: John Weirs, you came in contact with children not of your culture. So how did that work out?

[08:02] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: I didn't know any difference. There was, you know, I do recall instances where there were some children that were, and they were white children that weren't as nice or friendly, but they pretty much just stayed away from us. I know that there was. I remember this one girl in particular. Her name was Alice, and she was Chubby. And when growing up back in, you know, that time, it was sixties, seventies, you didn't have a lot of chubby kiss because we were all outside. That's all you could do is go outside and play. So you usually had one fat friend, one chubby friend in your group. But Alice is one that was in our class, and she was bullied, and she was bullied a lot. And I remember one time this person was bullying her, and I went, you know, and I told this person, oh, no, she is not giving you money today. And I told Alice to put the money back in her pocket or I was going to beat her up. Wow. You know, she just became a friend that I guess that was just a, you know, a point she had never experienced being, you know, with black people or whatever. And so it was just a difference for her. And I remember that.

[09:27] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: So the reason I ask you. Well, let me say this for those. Would you say that you lived in a middle class?

[09:39] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yes.

[09:40] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: The reason I say that, because kids that were in poor neighborhoods who had to catch the bus, they had, some of those kids had to put the money in the front of the bus and run around to the back to get home and hope the bus driver didn't pull off. So you didn't ride the bus?

[09:56] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: No, I did not. No, I did not. I was blessed, fortunate. My father and grandparents, they own vehicles, and so I. My only experience with a bus was with a school bus. A school bus.

[10:17] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: So, yeah, on the school bus, you could sit anywhere. You.

[10:21] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yeah, you could sit in. I mean, because everybody on the school bus looked like me.

[10:24] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Oh, okay.

[10:25] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yes, everybody looked like. Including the bus driver?

[10:28] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Yes. Okay. Okay. You were bused from the african american community over to another community to go to school.

[10:35] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Right? Now, that was an experience because I was a safety patrol. And as safety patrol, you had to go to different intersections in the neighborhood from the school to help kids cross the street and so on and so forth. So you did get some looks. I do remember people driving in their cars. I guess they lived in the neighborhood or whatever, but they would look at you, you know, really strange I didn't give it a whole lot of, you know, pay a lot of attention to it, but it did give you an eerie feeling that these people were looking at you like you weren't supposed to be there.

[11:21] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Okay, so you finally graduated from what school?

[11:25] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Davidson High School.

[11:26] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Graduated from Davidson High School, yes. So where did you end up going to college?

[11:32] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: I went to college in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. To Southern University? Yes. I made a. My father said that we could choose our own college, but we had to go to college. He graduated from Talladega, and I knew that I did not want to go to Talladega. It was nowhere. As far as I was concerned. It was, you know, this, okay. There was no football team there and no band, nothing going on, you know, and we took a trip to Baton Rouge to visit the campus, and it's. We call it the hump, and it's the overpass coming onto the campus.

[12:18] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: I've been there.

[12:21] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: As soon as we got on top of the hump, and I looked to the right, and I saw the Felton G. Clark activity Center, I knew that this was where I needed to be. And of course, the students call it the mini dome, but as soon as I saw that, the stadium, football stadium on the campus, I've got to come here. I've got. And I think that was the best decision ever to go to Southern University.

[12:46] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Can you tell me about your major? What did you major in?

[12:50] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: I majored in political science.

[12:52] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: I did, too. Okay.

[12:55] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: I know my mother used to always tell me growing up that she just, you know, I just know that one day I'm going to turn on the news and I'm going to see you on the street somewhere with a sign, protesting and picketing and so on and so forth. Well, she didn't get to see any of that. But I have been, you know, pretty active politically in college, and now I work in the center.

[13:27] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Of politics?

[13:27] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yes, in the center.

[13:29] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Okay, so once you finish Southern, what happened?

[13:36] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Well, on graduation day, we. There were five of us that graduated that day, and we had a party, and the party was at the home of the dean of my college, Doctor Jewell Prestage, and her husband was the chancellor of the university, Doctor James Prestige. Their daughter Karen. We pledge sorority together, and we became very, very close friends, but we had a party at their home for graduation.

[14:10] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Wow.

[14:11] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: So, how cognitive. Yes. Well, that semester, I had been basically staying at their house because KK and I were just, you know, hanging out. It was our senior year. I had one required course and two electives. And I thought that I had taken all my electives, but I hadn't. So, anyway, it's my senior year, and I have two electives that I got to take. Karen needs one class to graduate, and she's taking one class. So anyway, we graduated, and we had this party at their home. My parents came and introduced them to KK's mom and dad. And they had a friend, doctor prestress had a friend there, Doctor Tyson. She recognized my father from college. From Fisk University. Yes. So they were so excited to see one another and so on and so forth. So Doctor Tyson asked, she said, well, Lisa, what are your plans now that you've graduated? And I'd taken the LSAT, but I really wasn't that keen on going to law school. It was just something that I thought that I probably would. Just a natural progression from political science major and Doctor Jewell Prestige looked at my dad and said to him, leave her here and just send back more clothes. She's going into our master's program of public administration. So I said, well, I guess that answers that question. I'll be here. So that's what we did.

[15:52] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Okay.

[15:52] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: They left me there.

[15:54] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: How did you get from Louisiana back home to Mobile

[16:01] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Well, that I. When I left from the graduate program, I started working for my best friend, Robert Carter's dad's company. He had a managed healthcare company. They managed third party. They were claims administrators. And they had an office in New Orleans. And he hired me to run that office in New Orleans. So when they downsized and my position was terminated, I moved back to mobile. I came back home and I started working as a substitute teacher in the mobile county school system. And Sheila White, she worked at George Hall Elementary School. Rhonda Waltman was the principal at the time. I worked every day as a substitute teacher. The teachers regular, regularly. The teachers at George hall would wait for me to finish one class, and then they would put in their time and so I could, you know, come and hold their class while they were out. So anyway, while working there, a lawsuit came about with the school board and a student at George hall that required this student to have a one on one teachers aid. And that became me. So I became permanent. Then a good friend, Victor Crawford, called me and said, lisa, there's a job opening with the city of mobile that I think you would fit into. And I said, well, what is it? And he said, it's assistant city clerk. And of course, I didn't know what in the world that was. And I said, well, what do I need to do. He said, you have to go to the personnel board and fill out an application and apply for it. So I did. And as I understand, there were over 200 applicants, and from that 200, they interviewed maybe 100 or so people. And then they selected. No, they interviewed 20, and they selected ten from that 20. And I was one of the ten names that was sent to the mobile city council at the time. And I interviewed with them and got the job as assistant city clerk. And that was in 1994.

[18:58] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Okay. That was three years before I got there. As city council member.

[19:03] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yes. Yes.

[19:03] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Okay. So when you got there, what were you faced with? Were you the first african american assistant city clerk in the city of Mobile?

[19:18] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yes, I was.

[19:19] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: None before you?

[19:20] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: None before me. None before me.

[19:23] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: So tell us a little about that.

[19:26] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yeah, well, that was, you know, it was a little. It was a little stressful because at the time, Clinton Johnson was council president, and he brought me into the office to talk to me, to explain to me what was happening, that of all the applicants, I stood out, you know, more than the others, because I had a. This experience of running an office in private sector. I had educational background. I had history in Mobile. And he saw it as an opportunity to have history in Mobile, of having the first black city clerk for the city of Mobile, and that I would have be here long enough to ascend to the position. And I did. I did. I stayed. But there were times that I really considered leaving. I really and truly did not think that I would stay here that long. My spouse at the time had taken a job in Atlanta, and so I was here, and we had just gotten married. So it was a decision to make. Do you leave this? And you have so many people here in the city of Mobile that know you, and they know your family. They're excited. Unbeknownst to me, my friend here, Frederick Richardson, was one of those people that was excited because he knew my family about the possibility of me becoming the city clerk for the city of Mobile. And, you know, do you leave and go and find a job in the city with your husband? So we talked about it, and we agreed that I would stay here in Mobile. And it was a good decision. It was the best decision.

[21:39] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Okay. So from being the assistant to the clerk, you were eventually made. Am I telling the truth? Were you eventually made the first city clerk, african american city clerk in the history since 1702?

[22:01] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yes. Yes. In the over 300 year history of this city, that would be me. I am the first african american city clerk for the CFO.

[22:10] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Bill, tell me something about that. How did that come to be? What were the challenges? What were you up against?

[22:21] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Well, the city clerk at the time, glenda morgan, and she was the first female city clerk for the city of mobile. She retired after. I think I always get confused. It's either 13 years or 14 years she retired. I had been here that long, 13 or 14 years. And she retired, and I was promoted to city clerk.

[22:48] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: I was there.

[22:49] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yes, you were. You were there. And.

[22:52] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: And I made a speech to denote the historicity of that moment.

[22:57] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yes, it was. But, you know, I mean, seriously, and I think I told. I was nervous. There was. That's a lot on a person. You have a lot of people looking at you. You have, unbeknownst to, you, have a lot of people, you know, just really looking to you to do extraordinary things and to really make a good impression. You know, the first black person, you know, I just. I never in my wildest dreams ever thought that I would be amongst those people, you know, standing on those people's shoulders that had come before me as first blacks to have accomplished something. So this was a big thing. And to. To go to my church, one of the oldest black churches in Mobile, State Street, Ami Zion church.

[23:53] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: It's close to the oldest.

[23:55] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: I said, one of the oldest. Yeah. And we're the mother church in the state. Yes. All right. So I, you know, I felt tremendous, you know, amount of pressure to do good and to. And of course, my friends were excited for me, too. But just to make everybody proud and do a good job and be a.

[24:25] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Good servant, can you tell us about your responsibilities and being promoted to the clerk? What can you tell us about that? What was you responsible for doing? I want to know the ins and outs. I want you to tell me what you. What, by law, by state law, what were you responsible for doing as the city clerk for the city mobile?

[24:54] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: As the city clerk for the city mobile, I am the only employee of the mobile city council, meaning that I am the only person employed with the city that the mobile city council can.

[25:11] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Give directive and that the mayor is not over.

[25:15] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Exactly. So I like to tell people I have seven bosses and the mayor is not one of them. So the mobile city council appoints the city clerk. And as such, I look at myself as the city council CEO. So I am in charge of making sure that the city council's meetings happen every Tuesday. The agenda is prepared. I am the official custodian of the city seal. I am the official record keeper for the city that all actions taken by the city council are recorded. I am the. I'm not the archivist, but I am. I guess you can call me the chief archivist, because the archives department falls under my authority as city clerk. And I am in charge of the municipal elections every four years for the mayor and city council, which is a monumental task now that in itself would make the strongest person run and crawl under a table and just babble at the end of that election cycle.

[26:42] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Okay, before we get. Cause I want to delve a little bit into the election. I want. Because I think people need to know, when you say you're responsible for the election, what it is that you had to do. But right now, I would like for you. I want to start. And you have the city council's office? You have the city clerk's office.

[27:06] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yes.

[27:07] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: And the city clerk is responsible for all the deployees except the council members. And all of those offices?

[27:12] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yes, in both offices.

[27:13] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: I want you to start with the city council's office and tell me, what are the responsibilities over in the city council's office.

[27:22] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: So in the city council office, the staff and I are charged with making sure that all things that the city council needs to carry out their responsibilities and their jobs and duties are provided for. So we are the administrative arm for them. We take care of all of those things around, arranging their district meetings, making sure their letters go out, correspondence to their constituents, keeping up to date with what's new in technology. You were one of the first ones to tell us to get rid of these pages. And let's get cell phones. When you came down there, so nobody was walking around with this buzzing on the side, on their hips. Everybody got cell phones. So that's in the city council's office.

[28:17] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Okay, so move over to the city clerk side. What are your workers doing on the city clerk side?

[28:25] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: So on the city clerk side, we are primarily doing the council's agendas and keeping of records, archiving records. We make sure that all of the paper is scanned and that there's a record of all the actions that have been taken by the council. Those things are recorded. So there are lots of things by law and statute that we have to do. And primarily it's, you know, keeping the record. And with that, the legacy that I intend to leave the city with when I retire as city clerk, I have. I found a company that restored all of our old minute books from the 17 hundreds. So it's 17 and 18 hundreds. So all of those minute books, they started to deteriorate from being in old city hall, which is now the history museum. It was Hurricane Frederick, and it flooded, so we were without electricity, water, moisture inside the building. The books were damp. Some of them were damaged to the point of not being able to restore them. So as time has passed, of course, those books, they dried out, and now they're, you know, they became dry and crumbly and you couldn't handle them. So we had them wrapped up. So we found this company to restore these record books. And, of course, the assistant city clerk at the time was Marianne Merchant. She and I talked about it, and when we talked to the company about restoring these records, and of course, we were having great pains, because it's like, oh, my gosh, these books are about to leave our, you know, our office for the first time. But anyway, we got it done. And so now we have that history preserved in the city of Molar.

[30:40] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Before I know we don't have that much time, I want you to take us downstairs in the main arena and take us through a city council meeting. What happens on Tuesday? You in charge? You're the one who cares. You in charge of telling who is next and calling everybody up. So take us to what happens when you open, when you hit the thing and get going. What happens?

[31:11] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Well, the business of the city is conducted. But even with that, my favorite, one of my favorite parts is right after election, when you all are doing your first meeting, your first business meeting, I get to be in charge. I am the chairman of that meeting. Yes, you are.

[31:33] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: You have to declare that we all are certified.

[31:38] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: That's one of my favorite parts. Okay, but I preside over. I preside. I don't preside over, but doing regular meetings, I'm simply reading out the business of the city that you all are going to act on.

[31:52] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: And what's going to happen with that body of information?

[31:57] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: That body of information is then transcribed and of actions taken by the council, which will become the council's minutes for each meeting. And they are archived and kept by us.

[32:10] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: And it's some date, not certain yet. Those people who sign in to address the council can go over to the archives and said, I would like to get them.

[32:27] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Well, actually, no, Fred, they can go online now and pull up the council minutes online, and they can see their name, they're listed, that they addressed the city council on that day.

[32:39] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Okay, but my point, what I'm getting to is that you're in charge of the municipal archives, and eventually, all of the records that you keep would end up in the municipal, preserved in the municipal archives. And hopefully one day we have a microficher, whatever you say. They can come in and type in digital.

[33:03] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yes.

[33:03] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Whoever. And it'll pop up there.

[33:06] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yes.

[33:06] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: And I think that's, I think that's just going to, going to be great. So we got a few more moments. Tell us about. I know one of the biggest things you have to pull off is an election.

[33:18] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yes.

[33:19] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: What? We don't have much time, but give us an overview.

[33:23] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: So everything that goes into an election, getting the machines, getting the voting places, getting the people that work the polls, getting the ballots printed, all of those things are my responsibility. My responsibility. Absentees, the absentee ballots, the absentee staff, again, the machines. Then at the end of poll workers, you in charge. And at the end of it, at the end of the night, getting all of that information tabulated and brought forth to you a week, you all a week, the council a week later to certify it.

[34:02] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Right?

[34:02] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: Yes. So would you say, and all of the complaints.

[34:08] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Okay. You know, you city cleek, you allowed the city clean. Can you tell us what's your feeling about ethnic, having done all of this? Do you feel good about it? What would you have to say?

[34:29] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: I do. I feel very good about it. I feel that I have done an outstanding job in holding the responsibility of the city clerk and also it's being the first black woman city clerk. I think that I've represented in an amazing way and with much gratitude for one thing. I'm very grateful for the opportunity, but I think that I've had a lot of integrity in my job and doing my job.

[35:09] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: I want to say, because we're coming close to the end, is that I was here while you, while you were the assistant city clerk and we had another person ask the clerk. So I got a chance to work with that person who was the clerk and I got a chance to work with you. And I have to agree with you that you, based on what all I've seen, you have done an outstanding job for all of the citizens in the city mobile. And we all are proud of who you are and what you have done.

[35:45] LISA CAROL LAMBERT: I certainly appreciate that coming from you, you are one of the best things to have happen also as me being the assistant city clerk and city clerk, because we've created a friendship that I'll always be grateful for. You've been a great mentor to me and I appreciate it. And thank you so much for doing this with me today.

[36:12] FREDERICK DOUGLASS RICHARDSON: Thank you. We are sounding off.