Liz Gamboa and Jake Foreman

[00:02] LIZ GAMBOA: Hello. My name is Liz Gamboa. I am 61 years old. Today's date is April 12, 2023, located in downtown Albuquerque, New Mexico. And I'm talking to Henry, Jake Foreman, otherwise known as Jake, my coworker.

[00:23] JAKE FOREMAN: Awesome. My name is Jake Foreman I am 35 years old, and I'm also here in downtown Albuquerque, and I'm speaking with our director, Elizabeth Gamboa. Liz Gamboa. Thank you.

[00:37] LIZ GAMBOA: So, yeah, Jake, do you want to. I'm going to. Since I am kicking this off, do you want to describe the work that you do?

[00:46] JAKE FOREMAN: Yeah, I think definitely. My official title is program director here at New Mexico community capital, and that really involves coming up with programs to support native entrepreneurs. So I would definitely say I create programs. I definitely help with mentorship. But I've been using this term kuya, and it's Tagalog for an older brother, older cousin. And I've also defined that as being, like, a lifestyle engineer. So I'm helping kind of engineers people's lifestyle. What is their highest good? What can they do with the skills that they have? You know, what are their dreams? What are their goals? What do they want to do in their life, how they want to live? And I think that's really evolved, right from just being a mentor and helping native entrepreneurs to really thinking about how you could engineer your lifestyle. And I personally have done that through this organization, through the help of you, Liz. But I'm wondering, how would you define the work that you do?

[01:43] LIZ GAMBOA: Well, I'm currently the executive director here at New Mexico Community Capital. Been in this role for four and a half years. Started off as an assistant director or associate director at that time, and then moved into the role. I come from a background of financial services and finance and money, and that was a switch that came. Boy, my early forties, I think, when I decided I needed to understand this world of finance in business and just understand how to utilize it for good. Right. What does that look like? What does sustainable business practices look like? And so what I do now is I take those teachings and I support entrepreneurs that I work with, and I teach them about investments. I teach them about retirement plans. I talk about financial statements. So what I try and do, just understanding, you know, at a later age, that I didn't understand what all those things were. And you hold a lot of power when you know how to manipulate or, you know, draw up financial statements. I decided to really devote myself, after working in financial services, to supporting native entrepreneurs and helping them understand it, because many of them just don't have the benefit. Right. Of this education, of this path. And I'm not saying it's the answer to everything, but it helps have that information to help their business, to help improve their lives, to save for their future, for retirement, for retirement plans, that kind of thing.

[03:33] JAKE FOREMAN: So I'm wondering, back in your forties, why did you get into financial services? What was the reason?

[03:38] LIZ GAMBOA: Well, if I must be perfectly honest, I would say that it had to do with the relationship, actually, that I got out of. And so it was really pretty much heart centered. And I felt that I was. I guess I was mad that I didn't understand that world and I didn't fit in, and I felt like I was really missing out on something. I didn't need it. Right. Ultimately, I figured out that I didn't need it to be happy, to know that's those skills. But it helped me. I could then be discriminating and say, wow, I don't want to do that. I don't want to be in this world, but how can we use it to help other people and just kind of be a bridge? And I think a lot of us do that here. Right?

[04:29] JAKE FOREMAN: Right. Yeah. You know, how I got into this work was very similar. It wasn't something that I wanted to do right away. I definitely was considered radical. I consider myself pretty radical as a college student, as a grad student, and in some cases, an anti capitalist.

[04:47] LIZ GAMBOA: You know, I see that now.

[04:51] JAKE FOREMAN: An insurgent indigenous educator, planner. You know, that was really, you know, about, you know, how do we. How do we transform the system that we live in? And I realized that all of these big terms, you know, a lot of. They were loaded. A lot of people didn't understand what I was talking about. B. Right. Like, of just, like, what? Why? What insurgent planning, you know, praxis. What are you talking about? And so I knew that I had to change the way that I spoke, and it was actually because of New Mexico community capital and with a mentor, Peter, I think, who brought both of us into this organization, you know, he was a perfect person to talk about all this stuff. And it just went over his head as a business entrepreneur, had season experience. He's like, what are you talking about? Wait, how are you gonna make money? I was like, you don't get it. It's not about the money. But, you know, as you grow up, you realize that, you know, what I'm. You know, money is a part of our everyday lives. You know, how can I successfully communicate my business in the simplest terms as possible? And guess what? Through that learning, it worked and money started to flow, you know, not only this business, but this organization, right. Of just, it's just being able to tailor the work that we're doing for funders, for communities. And I think we've been really successful with that, you know, in our time together and attendure together because we really have figured out some things. Right. Your background in financial services. My background as educator, bringing in other native entrepreneurs and professionals into this organization. You know, we've really expanded this and here we are, you know, five years, six years in the space we're developing. And so I'm just wondering like, do you still like this job? What it was been like for you?

[06:42] LIZ GAMBOA: It's terrible. No, I'm just kidding. I really like this job a lot and I live, breathe, you know, work, dream about this job. And I feel like I have a little bit, I'm a little out of balance in that way because I really can dive in and I, when talking to entrepreneurs and I know we talk about it too, right. We talk a lot about wellness, right. So there's something called, or a group in collaboration with four other organizations called the indigenous economic well being alliance. So there are four nonprofit orgs here in the southwest who were working to figure that out, right. Deep skills, deep business skills, and also how do we balance it all and how do we understand it in our indigenous ways? I would say I really like this job. I can say I love it. And it's also what I think is really beautiful, is the blending. And I can say that because I'm a different generation. I'm older, I've had three careers. This is probably my fourth and maybe my last career as I nudge or move into retirement within the next decade, so, or less. I won't say exactly how much longer, but it's good to challenge my structure and my mindset. And I have to say it is a little challenging, right? I mean, I still have to check myself and be like schedules and time and projects and then we all come together and we meet and then I shift, right. I shift because I see that is just the right timing, right? Like stuff is getting done, work is getting done. And I think I'm symbolic of my generation, right, of having task lists and the project management to dos and, you know, time is money and what's your start time? I think that was drilled into me early on. I was in the Air force early on. So I think, yeah, that, you know, that helped form me and just also being my age and yeah, I mean, I guess I would also ask you, do you, you know, five or six years later, right, you went through the entrepreneur program. You came on as a program manager. Now you're a program director. Like, how do you feel about this job and where do you see it maybe evolving?

[09:21] JAKE FOREMAN: Yeah, well, I love it because I have such an amazing boss.

[09:25] LIZ GAMBOA: No, get out of here.

[09:27] JAKE FOREMAN: Right answer. But I mean, like, what you were talking about is, like, I love learning from you. Right? And just like you said, your experience in different careers and that background, like, all of those things still matter in 2023, right? Even with all the technology, just being able to be organized. Right. And just to think about that in those ways, because I am truly the exact opposite, right. In every way. Just big, big picture creative, you know, just understanding that things will happen in the right time, that we'll be fine, you know, doing this interview, you know, just. Just by winging it, you know, that's just how I live my life, you know? And. And it's good to also share that, you know, especially in this business space.

[10:14] LIZ GAMBOA: Yeah.

[10:14] JAKE FOREMAN: Right. That the key to right action is right timing. And we see that time and time again, right. With, like, with the organization and. And just, you know, specific awards that we've gotten. It's because it's been the right time with the right people. And how do you do that? Well, that's art. Even though there's art to it, I guess you should say. And it is about planning, you know, I mean, I will say I have my background and my master's in planning specifically. So it's pretty ironic that I'm, like, a terrible planner, but I really. I'll reframe it. I'm a planner in a different way, in that indigenous kind of way that you were talking about. Right. So what did we use if we didn't have any written language? How did we organize ourselves? How did we know when to plant? How did we know when to build? And it was by being in tune. It was by listening. It was by just really, you know, understanding everything around us, right. Just even right now. And I'm thinking about farmers that are getting ready to plant. We know that it feels right, right in April, but we know there's going to be another freeze. And we just feel it, you know, just. We don't know it precisely. We can't ever measure the date, but we just know hold off.

[11:22] LIZ GAMBOA: Right.

[11:23] JAKE FOREMAN: So, you know, that's. So we bring that into. Into our work around business planning. And because you've been so open to this new way and you're also open you to these other kind of spiritual ways. That's what makes this job so much fun.

[11:38] LIZ GAMBOA: Yeah. That really kind of syncs us together. I mean, I think all of us have a spiritual path and a practice. Right. We're either walking the red road or where we're spiritual, just. And we just had a big meeting. Right. We had a big kind of deep meeting a couple of days ago, and we passed around medicine to begin with, and that. And with meditation. Right. Just a breathing meditation really helped us. It grounded us. We all understood it. We all knew what to do. And really grounding yourself in that way, for me, is the way to move forward. Right.

[12:15] JAKE FOREMAN: Yeah, that's the deep connection. But I'm wondering, what did you really want to be when you grew up as a kid?

[12:23] LIZ GAMBOA: I wanted to be a detective is what I wanted to be. So I had a very original name for my business. It was Liz's detective agency. Yeah, it was nice. And, you know, I am. I am older, so I used a typewriter to type my invoices, mostly to my family, you know, lost keys, lost glasses, sunglasses, you know, really kind of simple stuff.

[12:46] JAKE FOREMAN: Yeah.

[12:47] LIZ GAMBOA: And I kind of wonder now, as I think about it, if they planted things just to, you know, get me going. So that could have been a possibility. And this many years later, I just thought of that. So I like being inquisitive. I like asking questions. I like the whole layering approach of peeling the layer back. Right. The five whys, the. Okay, it's deeper than that. What is it? What is the root of the matter? And I think being in this organization specifically, right. There's a lot of community development organizations or entrepreneurial support organizations that there's a method. Right. You have classes, you have programs, you have this. I love the. We really demonstrate an entrepreneurial spirit, and I appreciate that. And that's, I think, what has allowed us to grow the way we are growing. Like, you know, this is the biggest staff I think we've ever had there. You know, it's a majority indigenous. It is, you know, probably the average age is young, younger, you know, a couple. At least a couple of decades older, younger than I am. And I. Yeah, I like working with young people, so it works. So I'm getting away from the question, but I would say I'm able to use those skills of being detected and really just asking, you know, what is the place and the space and what is the setup? And what was the path that you walked before you got to that point and you lost your thing and what were you thinking, and what was your state of mind like? I really like looking at that whole thing. So, yeah, I'm curious to know what your responses to that. What did you want to be?

[14:38] JAKE FOREMAN: You know, I mean. Oh, that's a tough one. I will say. Starting in middle school, I wanted to be a rock star, and in particular, a ska rock star. So I'm glad I didn't go down that path, but I knew I wanted to be on stage. And I think that's, you know, public speaking, as you've seen, is a part of my job. And being able to go up and be confident, that all was learned at the age of 1314 years old. Being in a ska band, playing trombone, being a lead singer while your voice was cracking, you know, like, that's. That's pretty brave. Yeah, that's pretty brave. My voice broke a couple times in public, you know, very, you know, with, with, amongst our peers. And Scott wasn't cool back then either, you know, never was. Maybe your generation. That was the second wave. I was the fourth way, the little ripple at the end. But, you know, it really. It really taught me a lot, you know, because we had to make our own band t shirts. So it was the first time I made my own screen printer. I got an artist, a graffiti artist, to do our, you know, band shirts, making stickers. That was the first time I made money because I was like, great. I buy them for a quarter, sell them for $0.50, you know, $0.25 profit, and, like, and I had a big bag of quarters, you know, and I felt so happy about that. Like, you know, I made it going into, like, making cds and just making, you know, our flyers. So there was so much I learned in that process of being in the band. And after I got out of the band, I'm still thinking of myself in some ways as a manager or, like, artist relations, you know, just, like, what does it mean to work with talent, you know, and we're working with so many talented entrepreneurs that I think is really the evolution of our work is, like, how do we get these talented people to a broader audience? Right. How do we make this crossover happened to. Right. So there's so much that I've learned just through the music industry and through pop culture that we bring into our work. So, you know, I'm still. I still play my trombone. Who knows? There might be another comeback.

[16:54] LIZ GAMBOA: Do you really? Yeah, bring it in.

[16:57] JAKE FOREMAN: It's gold plated. I mean, I still have my stickers. It's all from. From band days. So, yeah, no, definitely. It taught me a lot of discipline. You. You know what I mean? Even being in marching band, in jazz band, waking up as a 14 year old. 06:00 a.m. marching across the field. And I made all my band members do it so we could be the best band ever.

[17:21] LIZ GAMBOA: Did you have routines or choreography?

[17:23] JAKE FOREMAN: Choreography or. At all the games. And we actually got kicked out of marching band, I remember. Cause we decided to go to a ska concert instead of. Instead of going to basketball game. And that was the end of my band career. And then after that, just the whole, you know, you know, rock star journey of just losing myself and, you know, finding it later on. So.

[17:50] LIZ GAMBOA: Yeah, your million seller cd, right.

[17:54] JAKE FOREMAN: Yeah, there's one day I'll show it. Wrote a song in my English, my english class when I was 15. That still. That still pops. So, yeah. So I'm wondering, you know, what are some life lessons that your work life has taught you?

[18:13] LIZ GAMBOA: Life lessons? I think I'm still learning them, which is kind of funny because you think that I would have learned them all by now, but I. What I'm really leaning into, I think now at this stage, stage of my career is being as authentic as possible. Right. And it is, I think, a really hard line. What is the metaphor? Really hard road to walk sometimes because I just want to speak my truth. And there is always a little bit of vulnerability. Right. And so, you know, I mean, I trust everyone completely, but I think that there are some norms that just make you do that in business. Right. Don't share too much. Don't tell people that you're whatever it is. Scared, upset, confused. You don't know the answer. And I feel that it's okay to share that it's okay to come up with the answer together. And I think it also helps other people just see, oh, wow. It's just not me. Right. I don't have to know the answer. I'm not the wise one just because I have years on you. There's some lessons I'm still learning and growing up, you know, in a certain time, in a certain community, you know, certain expectation. Right. As brown girl, I didn't have an education. You know, I really put off college for years, right. Because I just wasn't very good. Like, I'm a poor studier. I'm really just had a hard time with homework, struggled with math. I don't have a math brain and, you know, stupid, but I got a finance degree. I think it's because I really just. And let me tell you. Right. It was hard. It was really hard. But I don't know, I kind of feel like if you do that, like there's, you know, you could do anything.

[20:21] JAKE FOREMAN: Yeah. And I feel the same way. I mean, just going through business school, I realized that none of these folks are any smarter, you know, than me. And that was that I needed to know that, you know, I needed to know that, you know, just because you have money doesn't mean that you're any better than anyone else.

[20:40] LIZ GAMBOA: Right.

[20:40] JAKE FOREMAN: Or any smarter or you have any, you know, more, you deserve, you know, any more or less than someone who doesn't have that. I feel the same way. But through business and through this work, it is a lot about perception.

[20:54] LIZ GAMBOA: Right?

[20:54] JAKE FOREMAN: It's definitely about who you know. It's definitely about dressing to impress. I had to take a lot of time to really understand that, you know, that how you show up matters, that it's. It's more important to speak less and listen more as opposed to being that kind of know it all, you know, in the room. Because at the end of the day, for my generation, it's all vibes. Right? We talk about that all the time. It's all vibes. What's the vibe you're putting out there? People could read that even without you even saying anything, you know? So that's really just those subtle kind of social norms, you know? I've learned a lot by working here. And also, you know, this idea of fake it till you make it.

[21:38] LIZ GAMBOA: Yeah.

[21:39] JAKE FOREMAN: It's a real thing. A lot of people do it, you know, and it's okay. It's okay, you know, and you will learn on the job.

[21:48] LIZ GAMBOA: And that's also called soft skills. Right. They used to call that soft skills, but I feel. And sometimes that that is more important. Right. You can learn the other stuff. Right. You could pick up a book, you can look at a site, whatever. But if you don't have compassion. Right. And sympathy for the people that you're working, you know, with as a mentor or as an entrepreneur or really understanding. Yeah. I think there's really no depth to it. And I feel like, you know, I will say this just as being an older person. Oof. The state of the world, right. Like, just seeing what's happening to the environment and to the climate and to the water and to the, you know, the levels of extinction distinction with animal life. Like, I see that and I feel it. And I feel that that is a vibe, too. We don't want that, so. Yeah.

[22:47] JAKE FOREMAN: Well, that goes to that question, though. It's like, if you could do anything now, like, what would you do if there's anything right now, can you. Can you affect any of that? What would you be doing right now?

[22:58] LIZ GAMBOA: I guess it's just believing that the work we're doing matters, and I do. Right. But sometimes I get a little shook. I'm, like, so little. Right. Is this. Is this really what people need, what they want? Is that gonna make. Is this gonna make their life better? Is that gonna help their heart? Are they gonna, you know, be able to heal from trauma? Like, I. I feel that we can all do that. Right? We're all doing important work here, and I can say that about all the entrepreneurs. So I. Yeah, I guess it's just maintaining a belief in humanity. I know, that's so broad and generalized, but just believing that people are good.

[23:44] JAKE FOREMAN: Yeah.

[23:45] LIZ GAMBOA: And that they can make a difference and a change with serving you coffee or, you know, helping you do your taxes or babysitting or. I mean, we need, you know, all of those people. What do you think?

[24:05] JAKE FOREMAN: I mean, my mind definitely goes, you know, to just thinking about this imminent ecological, environmental, you know, system collapse. You know, I think I. I've been waiting for ten years, I mean, more than that, for something, you know, to happen. And we saw it a little bit, you know, during the pandemic. So, you know, my mind goes to my backyard. I mean, really, it does. It goes to making sure that I'm planting my own food, that I'm thinking about where my source of water is going to come in case, you know, the water gets shut off. I'm thinking about, you know, new technologies that could really be utilized to decrease our dependence on these non renewable kind of energy sources. And definitely, you know, goes out there to this multidimensional reality that we live in. You know, like, what is. What is. What is life beyond this three dimensional, you know, space? So it goes out there. It goes out there. But, you know, again, like, that's what we're. That's what we're creating for individuals and going back to this kind of lifestyle engineer, right? Like, I want to make sure that I'm with my son. I'm going to pick him up after this. I'm going to take him into the garden. But I have time and space and energy to fill, refuel. Because, you know, the worry and as important as it is, it's like, it's shortening our life. And, like, I want to support life, so, like, how do I support life? And I'm going to kind of conundrum right now between this idea of supporting life and then also what we're doing around technology. I mean, technology is just a tool. It's how you use it. And we are using it in such good ways. You know, we're continuing to share about it and we're continuing to kind of push that envelope around technology adoption for our native entrepreneurs. But to what cost, you know? And so I'm always kind of, that's always my internal struggle, you know, is this idea of, like, technology and life, natural world and this technological space.

[26:13] LIZ GAMBOA: Yeah. What happens with those generations, too. Right. That don't know how to use it. So you're losing anyone over 65 or whatever. Right? 70, whatever, who just haven't embraced it, don't know how, don't know who to ask. And it is, you know, we're not going to lose it unless all the satellites fall out of the skyd. Right. Who knows what will happen? But.

[26:42] JAKE FOREMAN: So that's. So do you envision retirement?

[26:48] LIZ GAMBOA: You envisioning a new job? I am. I am. And I also just can't imagine. I think I'm going to work part time.

[27:01] JAKE FOREMAN: Yeah.

[27:01] LIZ GAMBOA: But I think I'm going to, like. You just made me think about solar energy. Like, that is absolutely a passion of mine and I had in grad school, we developed a business called Boomerang solar. It didn't go anywhere. We spent a lot of time yet. Right. Boomerang solar. So we would use previously owned solar panels. Right. So, like companies. Right. Large companies that rely on all the units of energy that come out of the solar panels have to get rid of the solar panels after it reaches a certain, like, you know, it's only 90% or 85% efficient or whatever. So they have to trash it, which, of course, adds to the landfill. Right. Which is. Creates the waste, what goes into them. Right. A lot of rare elements, that kind of thing. So we would like, you know, fix them up and clean them and fix whatever we needed to and resell them to use. So I like the idea. I like the idea of charging stations and. Right. Just relying on energy and water that is. That is available to us. So already. Right. And not using new energy. So cool.

[28:19] JAKE FOREMAN: I like that.

[28:20] LIZ GAMBOA: Yeah. So, yeah, you can't even talk about retirement at this point.

[28:24] JAKE FOREMAN: I don't think it's going to happen. I mean, I will say, though, you know, it is a reason to go into entrepreneurship, and this is kind of, I think to be the best educator for entrepreneurs, you have to be an entrepreneur yourself. You know, for us to really continue this work. So we're seeing that right now. And so, yeah, anything around sustainable energy calling on liberation technologies, anything that liberates us from, from this dependence on non renewable energy sources is, I think, 100%, you know, what I'm about. And, you know, I wouldn't need to retire because I'm going to start retiring. I'm already. I'm retired. I'm retiring after this meeting.

[29:08] LIZ GAMBOA: Wait a second. No, you're not.

[29:10] JAKE FOREMAN: I'm giving a my two week, 1 minute notice right here now, you know, but just to, just to know that, like, that idea of retirement is probably not an option for my generation, but what is an option is enjoying our life in this moment and finding that good work life balance now so I'll never have to think about retiring, you know, does that make sense? Like, yes, you know, and if we can, you know, create an energy company together and, you know, and do this work, hey, we might be that much, much closer to actually retiring.

[29:46] LIZ GAMBOA: Sounds good. For good? For good. 100%.

[29:50] JAKE FOREMAN: Awesome. Well, I think our last story is that, you know, do you have any favorite stories from your work life that you want to share?

[29:58] LIZ GAMBOA: Hmm. From my work life? Yeah. Let me think about that a minute. Or maybe you can help me.

[30:06] JAKE FOREMAN: Yeah.

[30:06] LIZ GAMBOA: Yeah. So what about you?

[30:09] JAKE FOREMAN: Well, I mean, we were just at Rez in Las Vegas. It's one of the largest, you know, conferences for native american economic development. And we kind of started our journey three years ago working together at that same conference. So, you know, I think that, to me, is like a work life, you know, story is like the difference between what that was like three years ago and that was before the pandemic till now, coming back after the pandemic, did you see anything, any big changes? Any big. Aha. Are you a different person from three years ago when we went to now?

[30:49] LIZ GAMBOA: I am. I feel like I'm more confident. I feel that, you know, in this work, you interface, right? One on one. You teach a lot of classes, you speak, and that's one thing that Peter did, which I appreciate. Right. I taught a class, I think I taught a class maybe six weeks into my term here. And it was at, I think it was it in digipop.

[31:15] JAKE FOREMAN: Yep.

[31:16] LIZ GAMBOA: Right. So which is a native comic con run by Red Planet books or Lee Francis and I? That was, you know, there weren't a lot of people in the audience, but I was still passionate. Right? I was still passionate. It's like just trying to communicate. Trying to communicate, you know, the topics of entrepreneurship and financial statements. I don't even remember, I heard you.

[31:42] JAKE FOREMAN: Bombed.

[31:46] LIZ GAMBOA: And it was, like, boring. Right. It was boring because I wasn't connecting, like, what it's really like. Right. What is it really like to be an entrepreneur working here in rural New Mexico or, you know, on a reservation in Arizona or in the Navajo nation, like that piece of it, because I was a little bit insulated. Living in another state was new. You know, there was. I had to learn that. So I would say that, yeah, I have changed quite a bit. And I, you know, you just roll with it. It's very. I love how entrepreneurial it is. Right. Because every situation is different.

[32:28] JAKE FOREMAN: Right, right. And it's like, you know, I feel different, too. And I want to say that I've, you know, improved for the better, and then I'm also, you know, I'm really not. I don't know how you say this. I. It takes a lot of energy to do the work that we do, to connect with the folks that we have to connect and to be an educator, you know, and speak in front of large audiences. So we both, three years ago, speaking to a huge audience, and this idea of regenerating economies, you know, through cloud based technologies, I mean, that was ahead of its time. It's still. Still resonant to this day. But, you know, going back now, last week, you know, we're in the community. You know, we have a network. I know people. I felt that much more welcomed and that much more connected than I did three years ago. So I think that's really a testament of the work that we've done. I think, been able to connect, make so many connections around the nation that I wouldn't have if the pandemic didn't happen, of having virtual calls with people from around the world. Like, it was an opportunity, you know, and it was hard. It was really hard. It was really hard for our community. And I know I'm also taking in those lessons, in some cases, taking on that trauma. And that's kind of what I'm working on right now, is to make sure we're not taking on those energies of our clients of the world, you know, just this pain, you know? So I'm that much more aware of that than I was three years ago.

[34:07] LIZ GAMBOA: Yeah. And that's where going out into your backyard. Right, and growing your food and being with your son, that really shifts things. Like, you know, we had a big meeting, and that. That evening when I got home, I walked for an hour, right. I was so tired, and all I wanted to do was crash, and I walked. Right. I walked and I thought and whatever and listened to music, and it was perfect. It was. It was perfect. So, um. Yeah, I don't remember if you asked me a question or not, but you know what?

[34:39] JAKE FOREMAN: This is. This is a perfect ending.

[34:41] LIZ GAMBOA: Yeah. So it's true.

[34:43] JAKE FOREMAN: Thank you. Thank you for doing this interview.

[34:45] LIZ GAMBOA: Yeah, thanks. I really appreciate working with you, Jake.

[34:48] JAKE FOREMAN: Likewise.

[34:49] LIZ GAMBOA: Yeah. Thanks.