Rosel Schewel and Susan Schewel

00:04 My name is Susan schule and I'm 53. Today is November 8th 2008 and I'm in lower Manhattan and I'm interviewing my mom.

00:16 My name is Ruth cell. I'm 80 years old. Today is November 8th 2008. I'm in New York and I'm being interviewed by my daughter.

00:29 Are you ready? I'm ready.

00:31 Thanks, Mom.

00:34 So I had various questions. I wanted to ask you but then we got Obama as our president. So kind of changed things around what I was thinking, but so I want I just want to start by asking you about.

00:53 Just about the election in what your reaction to it is. Well, first of all was a Hillary supporter as a big Hillary supporter. So I had to sort of get in my head supporting Obama, but once I got over that then I was a big supporter for Bob and did a lot of work for him in our community which we did think whatever go for him or even nearly go for a message did but I was I thought it was a star collection either way either the first woman or the first African-American us right side to bet that and being the first African-American was and I never thought I'd live to see the day I grew up in a time when there were separate facilities for whites and blacks if they were marked and

01:48 Never ever thought that I would live to see the day when I'm so very very excited about it. And I was very excited when he came to Lynchburg and had a chance to see him up close and

02:01 Also, I was excited about the amount of enthusiasm. He stood up by a lot of people we had people stay with us come to Lynchburg live in our house and work for him and all that kind of thing, which was amazing on Blown Away by his organization organization was set up.

02:27 So you grew up in Baltimore.

02:29 And what was race like in your growing up? What was your experience of race when you were a kid? First of all grew up in all Jewish neighborhood and I didn't know there was anything in the world except for

02:42 You know, I just thought was a Jewish World until I was probably in the sixth grade and we did have household help that was African-American to get a cook and a cleaning person it also at some point in our life. We had the same help that was white, but we off visit more often. Louis African-American then known as black and

03:06 So

03:09 You know, that's the way it was in your school was all school was all white and all Jewish. It was public school and there one or two not Jewish kids, but no blacks.

03:24 And was their conversation about race not that I'm not at the child that I can think of there wasn't any conversation about race.

03:34 It was sort of an assumed mean I grew up in a household where it was assumed that this is the way it was and nobody seemed bothered by it.

03:43 And then came the war in World War II tell me the story about Uncle Irv.

03:51 Earth was not sure what his request but he was an officer and he was a white officer.

03:59 In all African American

04:03 Unit R22 whatever they called it and he was greatly loved him such a wonderful man. And that's really all that. I know is a transportation unit. They provided and they got trucks to where they were needed and all that kind of stuff and I have a feeling that that that early I don't know early in the war African Americans were in the fighting units. Where did that come later? I don't know.

04:33 Did he volunteer for that position? I think.

04:38 I don't know.

04:41 And was that what was the feeling in the family that he was leading that you there wasn't any wasn't Pride or particular pride or particular particular pride? Yeah, I would say that but no opposition no criticism. No worry about that, or was it just a neutral reaction?

05:00 So I would say there's a certain amount of pride.

05:05 So after the war you met dad you moved from Baltimore to Lynchburg, Virginia, go talk about moving to Lynchburg. I love these stories. Well Mutual Lynchburg. I was 21 years old. I just graduated from college. The week before going to college was a big step for me too, because it took me until World Oak.

05:32 Bus different for me and that there were a few African-American students and there were not many Jewish students. So then I moved moved to Lynchburg made up my mind. I was going to hate it.

05:44 And daddy agreed that if I hated it for 5 years he'd move but of course we're with you in the movie at a job. They are so but I believe him at the time and but then I liked it right from the beginning people were very nice. I've got a place for myself.

06:02 Very easily really due to the fact of chance happening.

06:07 It's the family next door to me to where we had. This little house was looking for a girl scout leader. And I was for the new person around got a job and Aaron seek and they asked me if I'd be the Girl Scout leader, which I did and I had a real good time. I met a lot of nice people one of the mothers of the other girls in the truth really became my mentor sissy Davidson who just died last week and so she sort of his real she was really interested in me and she got me started on thinks she got she was involved in Planned Parenthood. She was involved.

06:48 In Girl Scouts, and so

06:52 So you said to Dad? Okay, I'll stay in Lynchburg and make a life here. And then the Civil Rights Movement started. So the sixties one other thing that I think is interesting is when we first moved their daddies high school friends were very nice and fight admitted this or that and it took me awhile to figure out that I wouldn't really interested in them. And then shortly after that our next door neighbor Margaret Thomas it and

07:22 Started the League of Women Voters in Lynchburg. And that's people that join that or people that became our friends they were cut interested in other things things other than what I told friends were interested in and

07:37 So then why did you ask me? Well?

07:41 Why were you not interested in Dad's friends from high school? They were very conservative. They're kind of limited in their interest in their interested in Garden clubs in

07:55 Things like that, which I didn't have any calendar much interest didn't have any gallon in and didn't have much interest in and

08:04 So, although they were always very nice. I just

08:10 So you already had a very?

08:15 Formed political views and political perspective

08:20 I know if I had a very formed one, but I guess I was forming one. That way I could see was not the same as did you identify as a Democrat? Ohyeah. Go up to the house was Franklin Roosevelt's victory over my bed. And my father was very active in the Democratic party. And oh, yeah, definitely stop at the Democrat. So what was the League of Women Voters back there? Then we're all of course first. We were considered a bunch of way out radical leftists, but it illegal in the greater Stephen associate with any parties not allowed to but it's supports issues with all the issues was more liberal issues.

09:04 So we were you know it first people were a little suspect of these women particularly, but it's great. You know, they got over that and now it's a well-established organization that does what advocacy people think of it is liberal, but it's nonpartisan but it supports liberal issues, you know.

09:31 So they take stands on issues and if they do not support candidate, right? Okay, and if you're like an officer of a legal advisor if you're not allowed to publicly support a candidate.

09:45 So

09:47 So how to when I ask question about the Civil Rights Movement you went to the League of Women Voters was that part of the we had daddy and I had very definite.

10:04 Feelings about that. I mean we've the issue with the integration of schools. Are we lived and we were definitely for that and we, you know took a strong stand about the publicly in our social group and as a result, you know people separated from us.

10:23 You like

10:26 Like we were very friendly with slow Trawick and that her friends and we just never really again socialize with them and then there was just one person as president or whatever was of the Girl Scouts and we had this we bought this camp and we decided from the beginning it was going to be an integrated cab. And this one woman. I knew that sign up for child when she heard that she took the child out and never spoke to me again and would get up and leave the room if I came into the room.

11:01 And then years later probably 20 years later. I saw on the beach at Virginia Beach and she's reading Sophie's Choice got up from Richards came over and spoke to me and said, you know, I never knew a lot. So I don't know what she said. But what you said, I'm reading this book about Jewish oppression and I see you and I write what I don't know.

11:28 Anyway, so and then I was at that time, you know, I was teaching I was a reading specialist and I went from I was swept aside to make me choose two or three schools and one of them was an all-black school and I was only white person in it and it was fine loaf. No issues about that or the teachers have all this pain and you were itinerant. So I'd be there like in the morning or the afternoon and work with certain children.

12:00 So

12:14 Do you remember in the in Dad's store? Do you remember water fountain separate water fountains for black and white? I remember separate bathrooms.

12:25 I don't remember they were two women's bathrooms into men's bathroom song.

12:30 And I'm sure this there was ever would have rats. I don't remember them particularly, but I'm sure they were.

12:37 But there's just the only bathroom for African Americans downtown apps to tell me about the Obama Victory party in Lynchburg.

12:47 Well, actually it's very disappointed the Obama Victory party in Lynchburg know very exciting. But this is the interesting thing was in a big place and all of the African Americans who were there had planned groups and they have tables of their groups of friends and then we came in as we've always got to those parties and somebody would said you what party are you here for? I said done. So most of the white people were upstairs in a separate area and it was you know, I was real disappointed in that. It was really him.

13:22 It was very sadly revealing that it takes something else to really change his Social Scene. That's so interesting. It's so the the victory party was relatively segregated. I'm not no not by anybody's command just by the way, it worked out. Well, it reminds me of the book. Why do all the white kids sit together in the cafeteria, right?

13:47 So it was there any mixing up to restore there was some you know, we went down and people we knew and spoke to and that awful garnell stamps got Daddy and make a speech you doing that kind of stuff, but it wasn't the way it should have been especially that night, especially that night.

14:12 Thanks, Mom.

14:15 I really appreciate it. It was it was fun. Really? I'll do it again. Alright, we next next year and I'll get another half an hour. Okay?

14:28 Okay.

14:30 So

14:33 Talk to me about public education. So I'm just thinking about when when the schools were integrated School integration. I think in Lynchburg went very smoothly. And if you remember you were in a group that you're going to age you're going to middle school or going to 8th grade and they had all the 8th grade kids from all the black and white schools. I've been totally segregated till then it all of y'all go to one school for 8th grade City begin to get acclimated. And also there were some summer programs you participated in and I was at

15:10 Call Monroe when that in elementary school in that integrated and it went very smoothly but there was a lot of subtle things that you didn't know like thinks about free lunch and all which very few kids at Fort Monroe had free lunches. And in the day of integration. They are a lot of cats and there weren't enough lunches and things like that and expressions other minor things like that. They didn't realize we're different. So so the kids in.

15:50 In the formerly White Elementary Schools, I remember I brought my own lunch from home to kids did that or other kids bought their lunch. So you're saying the cafeteria didn't have enough food for the kids to Godfrey watches right that first day and the teacher asked the question in the morning, but the response wasn't but didn't see your right and there I can't think of them, but other very minor things like that that just Were Trouble lack of vernacular and not a lack but a difference and subtle things and then

16:28 Let's see. So when so first black kids were allowed to choose to go to White schools first. There was Freedom of Choice and then was and then lead integration right in it.

16:45 And that was about when you were in the eighth grade, actually it was intense was when I went to Dunbar so

16:55 Did you tell me about that among my pure group and you're among the parents of my paragraph and here's this decision but in some people chose to use somebody started a private school. And so some people chose to send their children to that. We had already had established Virginia Episcopal School. Some people said their total did that and then it was a conscious decision to keep you all public school and we have other friends who made that same kind of decision, but it it was something that you have to think about make the decision. And so did you ever consider that I would go to Seven Hills? No, never considered private school, but

17:42 You have to think about it. I mean you're you had to take a stand yet had to take a stand and we took a strong stand about that and I've always

17:52 So

17:56 At least you know, we started done being advocates for that. And what about the public library? Tell that story where we had our what was called a public library, but it wasn't public. It was money was left by somebody who had a will that's it was for White's father. We considered a public library and

18:19 So at some later time, I guess in the 80s baby 70s.

18:25 And when it was 6060 somebody decided to open really have a public library. That was a big.

18:34 Public decision mean with a city council decision

18:38 But it was open a lot of people were there and the decision was start this new public library and

18:47 But I remember was tomorrow might this from turkey and Israel was with me and she was amazed at the public could influence have that much influence.

19:08 So there was this really a private Library. I have a vivid memory of the children true and that Library it had that old beautiful building. And yeah, and I remember sitting on a Windows in here. So so they were group of white citizens who got together and said this is crazy. We need to have a library that and your buddy hard to break the will I guess they did or something like that and they made after that but it was a big butts a big deal. So Jones Memorial shut down and became the publicly I researched Library, which is the stairs from the public library and it's very good, you know, it's archival and all that stuff of Virginia stuff. So they must have had to go to court. Oh, yeah. Oh, so that's where the I can't remember the details about them baby daddy knows I can't remember face on city council that you're not

20:05 Interesting

20:08 Alright, okay.

20:13 Thanks, Mom. Thanks. It was great. We made it happen. Yay.

20:19 That was a good start.