Lynne Murray and Kathrina Proscia

Recorded November 15, 2008 Archived November 15, 2008 01:18:27 minutes
0:00 / 0:00
Id: LMN000880


Lynne Murray, 57, in conversation with her good friend Kathrina Proscia, 48.

Subject Log / Time Code

Kathrina and Lynne on golf outings they used to organize to raise money for their children’s parochial school.
Kathrina and Lynne on another less successful fundraiser, a linen sale, that they organized to benefit their children’s parochial school.
Lynne on her brother who has stage 4 cancer.
Lynne on the saddest moment of her life, which was when a child she had adopted was taken away from her after one week by a sketchy adoption agency.
Lynne names Kathrina as one of the most influential people in her life.
Lynne on her earliest memory.
Kathrina on the great advice she receives from Lynne.
Lynne an Kathrina on where they see themselves in 20 years.


  • Lynne Murray
  • Kathrina Proscia

Recording Location

StoryCorps Lower Manhattan Booth


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00:04 My name is Catrina. Proscia. I am 48 years old today is November 15th 2008. We are in Foley square and I am here with my very good friend Lynn Marie. My name is Lynn Marie. I am 58 years old and today is the November 15th and we are at Foley square and I am very very very good friends with my dear friend Katrina.

00:31 Okay. So, when do you remember how we first met? I do very much to our children went to the same nursery school together. And what year was that? Oh my goodness. See now. Let's see. They were born 87. I think it was 90 years old and we were standing outside to school together and I knew immediately I knew immediately that I was going to be your friend. Absolutely. Absolutely no immediately and you know how you can tell when you just look at somebody has just there right you look at something on my gosh you like you want to walk away from somebody. I felt the same way about you to the whole group of people standing there and you knew exactly who you wanted to stand and have a conversation with and whose children with the same morals on the same values.

01:26 That's how we met cuz right and we didn't even know that we were going to be such great friends and have time so that was that was really great that a reaction, right?

01:39 What do you like most talkin about with me?

01:44 Wow.

01:45 There are so many things but I'm going to say I think the most is what has happened to us recently in the last five years and our spirituality where that has lettuce and both being part of a Catholic school and both being part of being brought up in a very strict religious facet that you and I have grown so and have our literature in our reading and the books that we read. It is just been fascinating fascinating on the journey and I don't talk to many people about it, but you but I will because you seem to understand and know

02:31 The past that we are both on of learning and growing I feel like we always want me to walk we always seem to be in this on the same wavelength definitely always, you know, what I'm talkin about, even though I may have a hard time explaining myself sometimes like you totally you just get it all the time and that's why I love you so much.

02:53 I always love you. We've had a lot of adventures together over the past 18 years. I was trying to think of some of the funny things like the really funny thing. What about the time that we will be founded the Paris golf outing together that came to me and said Our Lady of Grace has his golf outing and they make so much money for the school. Why can't we do that? And then like, oh, I know a lot about go. Well, that's because you knew so much about Golf and I knew your brother was a professional and I knew your father and husband played golf. I figured you would be the perfect person to run this that was just my suggestion. I had no intentions of running it. Okay, if I knew exactly exactly I just wanted you to do it either and I remember the the first time when we start

03:53 To organize the golf outing we were we had heard that people get cars donated for the hole-in-one. Remember that I said, what is our chances of getting some car dealer to give us a car. So remember when we went to I believe I called Buick first and ask him if that was even a reasonable request and then I I pick you up and we went to the car dealer remember that I remember Boulevard and we walked in there and novice as we were just running this grammar school golf outing and lo and behold were we surprised when he said no problem. We'll drive it right to the course if we was so surprised and so thrilled with what wonders what we were doing and we get this beautiful car and they drive it to the golf course, and we just thought we would have cats meowing.

04:53 Zedd and the funniest thing was I remember when we walked out of that dealership. We thought you liked this time to Mountain. Yes, right. We thought somebody could win this, you know get a hole-in-one at the golf outing that this would be like the biggest fundraiser for the school when we could do all the things that the school wanted to do, you know wanted to improve and whatever but do you remember him saying that one of us would have to drive the car there now, I don't remember yet only when we first went to him in the very beginning. He said no problem, but somebody has to get the car there and you and I looked at each other and said you mean one of us has to drive this car to the actual outing he turned around and he said yes, we were really nervous about that happening. I don't remember who drove it, but I know it wasn't you or I know if that was his responsibility we were to take

05:53 That was really something about the time then we had to find the first golf outing. I think we had at Douglaston or the first one or two, right and then after that we decided that we need to go to a kick it up a notch when we should try Country Club was never so I can remember the name of the golf Corrido Beach. That's right little what happened when we went to Lido Beach Grille Beach was very very expensive Way Beyond anything that we could afford they seem to have been more towards the when you have benefits not golf outings for grammar schools. They will more for cancer and that they donated then but when you wanted to have an outing just for a gram school, it was way beyond anything we could afford right because the tickets would have been so expensive.

06:53 Right, but remember who came with us that Monsignor came with us to try and convince them that this would be a very good deal and darling what happened while you were driving the car. We were so busy trying to find where we were going and this is after after we left the place right? And then we were on Long Beach Road, right? Yes. It was on the way home on the way home. For some reason. I thought it was while we were trying to get there as far as that goes.

07:32 But I'd say we were so busy talking we had Monsignor in the backseat and we're talking about he was in the front. Listen your the back tell the story then if they charged me twice, but you want to tell it because I forgot the I can't remember details. That's the problem. I also can't remember if it was funny though. We were we had just gone to this Lido Beach Golf Club golf course, whatever and we were like, okay forget it. It's too expensive. We can't do it when the car would like talking up a storm blah blah blah blah blah.

08:10 And I have never driven on Long Beach Road before I didn't see any stop signs or any speed signs that say what the speed limit was and I just keeping up with the traffic. So there was about three cars around us. Maybe like one in front and one on the side one behind we're just going along talkin blah blah blah blah, whatever and all of a sudden they are is a motorcycle police officer and he pulls us over. There ain't nobody else. Like is he serious? Is he mean me and you were like, oh my God, we got the Muncie man in the front seat. He's wearing his collar clearly part of the church we have like God is on our side has nothing to worry about when I getting a dick. He was quiet. He never said a word right we pull over.

09:01 The police got to the police officer comes off and he's like, okay license registration and like I did I do something wrong. I had no idea what I did and he said yes you were going like what what I don't remember remember like 55 in like a 35 or something. So I was like, oh I want to get that and so I gave him the information and he goes back to his motorcycle. I guess to call it in or whatever.

09:35 Mancini decides to get out of the car. He's like I'll I'll take care of this is no problem. Right I make you go guy and he walked back.

09:48 Went to talk to the officer. He comes back and gets in the car is like No Deal you seriously nothing I could do. I don't know. We just met I told him you were on Church business and that you were doing me a favor and and you know, whatever I end up getting the ticket. Long story short. I went ahead called up the Long Beach the town of Long Beach to see where I had to go to actually pay the ticket cuz my husband insisted that I should go fight it I had called up and the woman that answer the phone. I told her the story and like I can't believe this we weren't, you know, I like kind of church business. We wanted to know we're going to see where we can have our golf outing to raise money for the school and it was so unfair that we got this ticket. There was a monsignor in the car for goodness sakes and can't believe he's still got the ticket. So apparently she felt some compassion because

10:41 She told me that when I got to the courthouse or whatever night it was that I had to go that I should go see the prosecutor I believe and that he would knock it down to like a broken taillight something but I still had to go in front of the judge on seeing you didn't go with my weed. So, yeah, so I went and I spoke to the prosecutor and he like it was a broken taillight whatever and actually them unseen you had called me the next day and asked me how it went. And did you want me to how did he even offered to pay for it? And I said no. No. No, that's okay. I don't remember. What was one of the funniest things. Yes. That was one of our many many things that have happened to us over the eight years of doing the golf outing but having Monsignor in the car and not being able to get out of it.

11:41 He was a very nasty comp. I really wasn't. Okay. So do you remember anything else funny that happened to us during these golf outing years?

11:59 Well, I think the the best golf outing year that we have is when I poured and it rained so hard and it was cold and instead of being able to golf all the men decided to get drunk and got it at a bar and I kidding they went into the bar and instead of God. They what did how many holes did they do? If it's a 6 on believable holes in the pouring freezing rain while everyone else that in the clubhouse and had a little party but it was definitely to our benefit because when it came to Raffles, right they had no problem handing out money. We had the painting contest we supposed to have an outside. Right right. I had it under the tables and in between the chair the whole opposite, of course, that was his and the women got up and did that.

12:59 2 and the guys were cheering and betting on their wives. Yes write the money flowed. I think that's the year. We made the most money because nobody Golf and he was very very happy people having a happy hour, which was really fun. It really was they were very good sports about the whole thing. Yes. We have a good group. We had a good group of people good group of parishioners that always stood by us and always backed us no matter what day was good. It was a good eight year or so in the grammar school.

13:42 It's a lot of fun and now a homeschool association thing as yeah, I was a president you were the vice president live guitar not only did the linen sale. That was fun. Whose idea was that not mine. I don't think it was mine. And I don't even get that kind of my goodness. I don't know. I don't know that that was we've had a few that were that bombed in that was definitely the work that went into another little heavy lifting. Let me get like 10 or 15 of the parents and we're all standing there all going to like unload this distraught. We thought it was a truck small. We don't know how big was right pillows and comforters and towels and whatever right remember our faces and we saw a big tractor trailer pull up and just says, okay, here it is.

14:42 Hear it hear. What is that was the end of his job. He delivered it to the front of the school and that the rest holy mackerel unloading all of that put. Oh my goodness taking it out of the boxes setting it up in the gym, and we had very little help baby had well relative to the students in the school was relative to the number of

15:09 Items that doesn't matter but that you know, what for a friendship to continue most people that stay friends because of their children throughout school and even though our children went to different high schools. We continued our friendship now there in Cut. Well, it's four years after that. So it is 18 years of our kids not being friends so to speak but we kept our friendship going been fun. It has all the way it's definitely even though we don't see each other that often and our lives are different directions. Right? Look where we are now was sitting here. I'll ask you a profound question when you meet God, what do you want to say to him?

16:10 My my my when I meet God, what do I want to say to him?

16:20 Do you know this pause is too long? Because I am trying to think of my questions.

16:30 I think if it was a question that I wanted to ask would be why all the suffering for children? That would be the number one question I would have why would he allow children to suffer as they do for my niece with cancer and these families that have babies that just spinal tap after spinal tap and suffering even though I do know everybody's here for a lesson. I do realize that there is a reason behind everything but it's certainly difficult to watch children suffer.

17:04 So I guess that would be my question of why children.

17:11 Who your favorite relatives?

17:14 My brother tell me a little bit about your brother. My brother right now has stage 4 cancer and we're keeping our fingers crossed that he makes it he has had many many experimental treatments that we are hoping makes it.

17:31 But he he's one of a kind is the KSI character. He is a jack McCarthy and he just is always has been always has been a character life-of-the-party fun-loving very rarely gets things takes things seriously get some down and even this even with this cancer came from smoking and he still smoking so they're dead too. So so stupid he is he is and he just found true love he absolutely just found true love after a very volatile divorce and married life. He has found somebody that truly adores him and loves him and he feels the same way. So he is one of my favorite relatives besides my children. I didn't say my children, but I'm thinking relicate right outside of my children. Yes, my brother. What's your funniest memory of your brother?

18:31 What's the funniest thing that you can remember that he ever did or said?

18:37 Brother, he's such a character.

18:42 You know, I can only there's too many there are so so many things that he has done and said but I'll go back to when we were children and we were sleigh riding and I'm four years older than he is and he was really little maybe he was five. Maybe he was five and he had to go it was Highland Park you had to go up the hill and trudge up the hill and go over and over there was a bunch of teenagers that will hiding up on the top of the hill behind these trees and they were playing tricks on the kids that were coming up there and this poor little kid. He trudged up there so many times and he was so tired, but he was determined to do it and he gets up there and he finally gets up the mountain and these kids come from behind a tree and they yelled and this kid came running down the mountain. I mean, you couldn't believe how fast his legs went.

19:42 Snowsuit to get up that hill and he never went down the slide as anyway not being able to go sleigh ride and because they scared the bejeebers out of them. He just was a great kid and he he's just terrific terrific man. Does he have a tail like a classic family joke does he have something anyways tells when coffee jokes are just cuz if he was here, he spilled all 50 of them, but I can't tell now I can't say that there is

20:25 When did you first find out that you were going to be a parent?

20:33 Well after trying for many years and not succeeding and having children. I had gone to my empty my local doctor and told him I was having problems conceiving and that I wanted to adopt and I was wondering if he could help and lo and behold that was in February in April. He said to me well, I think we have a baby what year with it? And that was a 1972. No, 76 sorry 76 1976 and infant and April said he was born.

21:14 And that happened to be the most that would truly was the happiest day of my life. That day was the happiest day of my life.

21:23 Because they had said that this was definite this wasn't anything that anybody was going to change their mind. It was a definite adoption.

21:33 So I didn't have the fears that come with the normal adoptions like I had with my daughter.

21:39 But so that had to be the happiest day of my life and that was wonderful. He was three days old when we brought him home three days old. Can you describe the first time I can't even describe it was like I had him myself. There was no difference. Absolutely. No difference whatsoever. I couldn't imagine Feeling Anymore love had I given birth.

22:04 Then holding him in my arms and knowing that he was mine.

22:09 And how about Christy Christy was another process of adoption now, unfortunately, but having her and having a daughter has been absolutely wonderful or absolutely wonderful.

22:32 She um, she was much more difficult because there was a very good chance that we're going to take her away. I'm very good chance.

22:39 Cuz prior to having her I had had a baby taken away and it was all done illegally.

22:46 What is after yes, but not her but the baby Pryor which we didn't know that the agency was doing things illegally. And then by the time we adopted Christy, they were arrested. So then her adoption was very very much unstable that if they had found anything that was done. Illegally, then she would have been to six months old. I already had her since she's a days. So that was very scary. That was very scary. But it all worked out we had to go to a grand jury hearing and everything was fine. And now she is 21 years old and wonderful and he is 100% Italian and Christy is Irish.

23:42 I see you told me just now what the happiest moment of your life was. What was the status the day the baby was taken away when you when we get when we thought we were adopting a Brian we had him one week and they called and they said that he was going back to his birth mother which turned out to be a lie, but we didn't know that at the time.

24:09 And so that was that truly truly was the saddest day of my life giving that baby up. Where was he going if he was not going back to say he was resold to another cup so easily go again, which is what this agency was doing giving two people babies pee and you were paying for them and then selling them to another couple.

24:33 And that's why they were arrested which we did know what the time but that's why they were arrested and charged.

24:41 So that was the saddest day of my life.

24:44 Especially to have any watch that Eddie was how old was that at 10 he was 10. No, I didn't realize that. He was very very very hard on him to see that happen because then he starts wandering to why did my birth mother change her mind? You know, how come that didn't happen to me or also on the other hand. It is my home life unstable. Am I going to be taken away at all these things going through his mind so it wasn't a happy time for him. Let me tie was very insecure time in our life. And then he died soon after that. Did you not know that Christy? Well, they're not going to give me another baby. We had to get a congressman involved and he threatened them. That was a year later.

25:37 Can you tell me if you remember? What's the funniest thing that Eddie did when he was a baby? I can't think of anything. So, you know what? I tried to even think about this while you were saying that to me and I couldn't think of anything but I can't think of my recalls. Terrible. Terrible Who's the who has been the biggest influence on your life?

26:17 I'm going to there there are a couple of people but I'm going to say on the top of my list is you yes. Yes.

26:28 Because of our talks and because of our candidness and the way we're able to speak to each other. I feel that it has broadened my horizons.

26:40 Quite a bit because in speaking with you about our thoughts and our dreams and and what we feel is an afterlife or anything on the spiritual realm when we were both brought up. So narrow-minded black and white

26:58 It has opened up a whole new world and you basically was the only person I was ever able to really talk to about that and expand. It is definitely you win in every one of our conversations has been

27:17 Always liked you speaking about Mother Teresa and all the different things that people have done in their lives and you never get angry, which is one of the things I admire most about you and that's not easy to do. But in my opinion, it's not to get angry. You might get hurt. You might feel many different ways, but anger isn't one of them and that's a quality. I admire so it has been you LOL. You're welcome. There wasn't easy growing up with them because they had so many of their own issues and you had to find how you felt on your own.

28:03 And I find actually I mean that I found that through our conversations. I value them very much important to me to okay. What is your earliest memory?

28:22 Mike earliest memories not too early is kindergarten. I my brother with I was four when my brother was born and I don't remember that. So that's sad but you think you would remember for people do I don't see anybody has definitely my earliest memory of a best friend then no not that I can think of no, if you could hold onto one memory from Eli fraternity, what would that be?

28:59 Well

29:05 Well

29:09 My kids growing up. It had it would have to be my kids growing up when they were little and the fun and does love said I felt for them.

29:22 And just that just them solutely to the memories of the two of them younger, even though they are 11 and 1/2 years apart. The different memories of that are they were the happiest times of my life. They just for the happiest times with them young and growing up this so lucky to have you because oh my gosh, well kids never liked and their parents growing up but you have watching you over the last eighteen Years bring up your children and their the lessons that you've learned in the past onto me because we are a little bit different than any I have valued each and everything you've ever told me about parenting and guiding and decisions and Ike anytime I have any issues with my kids. You know, I'm always calling him going Lynn. Oh my God. I don't know why.

30:22 You know call me down and give me a very sound profound advice that I value in Treasure.

30:31 Always and if I could put all the wonderful things you've ever told me in a book. It would be the book of the wind because it's just there's so many amazing things. You've taught me and told me and shared with me. It's it's been amazing animazing journey and I feel the same way when I call you up and I have problems like you're the first person I'm going to go call the first person that I call cuz I think your objectivity is amazing and I think your calmness and how you handle a situation Ivo ID when your kiss was small and throwing up and everything, but I would instantly get angry over. I always admired how you stayed calm and played it out just played it out until they give kids finally calm down and then you saw what was really going on. That's very admirable. I spank you.

31:28 Okay, let's see when in life. Have you felt most alone?

31:43 Now

31:49 I'm going to say the last the last 5-6 years.

31:55 Yes last five or six years and neither one of you don't have to expand on that. If you don't know if you know the history is your future hold.

32:09 I know God only knows I am now in the midst of a complete new life and the turmoil that

32:23 Is upside down and I don't know. I don't know. I'm leaving it in God's hands. I've turned it all over to him cuz I have no idea.

32:33 Okay, who do you look like in your from your family people would say that I'm the spitting image of my mother but it's not true. It's my father that I look like and I have all his speeches but because of the blond hair and blue eyes people would just say, oh you look just like your mother.

32:57 But not really if there's a is there any question that you've wanted to ask me but something you want to know about me but have never asked.

33:09 T I thought I know everything score. I asked every not know it not just not know everything but not if it's certainly I have no problems asking.

33:22 I have a question. Okay, would you ever get married again?

33:30 I wouldn't I would never say never I really wouldn't say never I thought I would say no, but I wouldn't say never know. What I would like is a partner that shares the same values and she has the same spiritual illness that I've have and has a sense of humor.

33:52 Fun affectionate that's when I want. It doesn't necessarily have to be marriage, but certainly a partnership that we could travel and enjoy the rest of our life having the same meaning purpose purpose and meaning in life.

34:10 Okay, I just think about you a question that I haven't asked that I be hiding. We always cover everything you're not kidding. I don't really know.

34:28 Where do you see our friendship in 20 years? I've been a better day that you weren't by traveling and sitting on top of the mountain did meeting Gandhi.

34:38 That's what I want to do. I would love to have a spiritual adventure with you. That's what I would love some time in our future that you and I actually go to the Omega Center someplace. Where do you know if that's what I want to do doesn't necessarily have to be 20 years, but I sure would like to do that with you do that. I'd like to go to

35:05 You're up or did he go to India or Egypt Africa under so many places. I have a bucket list. Now. The reason you're picking these places is random places. I'm curious about that. I'd like to go with you would be nice to travel together because you've been to Germany and dragged there so many places. I'm wondering where in Europe and why you all the places.

35:36 This is more just traveling for culture rather than okay, maybe we could have an interview with the Dalai Lama. Whoever they thought yes. Yes, that would be wild when you like to have a session with him.

36:12 Yeah, I don't know what I don't know what I would ask. I think I would just be sitting there and listening. That's exactly right listening.

36:22 That's it. That's once. I was just listening is the Active Athlete has nothing over us. Let's see. What else did I ask you? Where do you see yourself in 20 years in 20 years.

36:50 Don't know I

36:53 Probably retired exhausted I retired maybe or maybe still working. I don't know if there's

37:04 I guess maybe after a certain point everybody just needs to retire and just enjoy life and I see spending time with my husband does Joey have the same desires to travel with you and him like to travel when your girls are he has different he has different that I want to be like in a house.

37:22 Looking at the ocean and he always tells me that I don't like to go into the ocean. So why would I want to just keep looking at it? And I'm like, I do go into the ocean. It's not that but I'm in the quiet in the ways don't you like the beach I do. Enjoy. I enjoy looking at the Belmar Joey. I enjoy looking at it. I don't want to be honest. It's beautiful to look at all the preparations that I have to do to get into on it and into the water somewhere to tell you that I am honored and it's a privilege to have you here today and I am so

38:06 Grateful for your love and for your friendship and your understanding and your enormous ability to listen and to help me work things through and I value your friendship. It's one of the most important things that has happened to me in my life and it will always be that way and I love you very much and that's it. Lean with me. You're leaving me speechless and wanting to cry I do know I feel the same way about you. Absolutely 100% the same about you. I admire you and I think you're fantastic and I'm the one that told you you would never have to worry about money problems. Did I not and look away you are you are an amazing person amazing spiritually intelligent and giving and loving and I wish you all the best in the world.

39:02 Always same to you when you I love you. I love you too. Trina with an H.