Martin Blank and Jairo Alcantara

00:03 My name is hydro. I'm 17. Today's April 17th 2009 wear in Foley Square in my relationship to Martin is he's my friend.

00:16 Okay, my friend. My name is Martin. I'm 72 years old today's date is April 17th 2009. And where in Foley Square Lower Manhattan, and I'm here with my friend Jairo.

00:36 Well, I guess the way to begin is to begin ya ask a question or two. Can you tell me a bit about your background if I wrote was your family like love?

00:53 I'm a Dominican.

00:56 I guess you can say that's what I consider myself. I have a very Spanish mom. She she wasn't enough. I'm around till she's only been here since 91 I think and I guess you can say to very

01:12 Spanish family rice and beans everyday very Spanish Community the whole I guess you can say what you called.

01:22 Tennis mentality

01:25 And

01:27 Right. Now I live in Jackson Heights. It's a Spanish community store in the Spanish Community. You know, there's a husband and there's a wife and two kids the husband goes to work. No wife is the Homemaker something like that. She stays at the house and that's my background.

01:46 What were you like growing up? What kind of a kid were you whatever is going up? I was very very shy.

01:53 They adding I spoke to certain people but I was a type of kid that when I spoke. Everybody would be like, oh my God, he talks and I was I would tell my mother everything is like those that make a close friend.

02:11 But other than that, I was very very quiet like that. He start speaking up until like 8 grade.

02:19 That's what I started acting up in.

02:21 Having a life

02:23 How about how how was how are you like as a child Martin? You don't really want to know but I'll tell you anyway as a child. I was very quiet as you are very introverted. I think that was the word that was used.

02:40 As opposed to being outgoing and extroverted. I lived a lot in the thigh fantasy-world. I didn't make friends very easily. I was unhappy as a kid.

02:56 And

02:59 It's not anything. I'd ever want to repeat going through that again, but took me a long time to get out of it out of my childhood. In fact, that was an adult and I stopped being a child.

03:10 What do you mean by fantasy world? Like what is it? What is that mean? It means that I didn't like the world that I was living in a lot. So I had to create fantasies for myself about when I grow up and I was on my own what would I do? And what would I be and where would I go and I had a vivid imagination pretty much how was your world that like, how is it so difficult that you had to create a fantasy want what was difficult because of my family Dynamics? You know, I came from a basically dysfunctional on happy family and

03:47 My brother and I grew up together if he's 7 years younger and both of us, you know, I think suffered because of it.

03:56 So they really wasn't too much fun as a child, but got better. What would you say that joke, like now it's an adult over almost an adult. We have almost an adult. Well now I'm not going I'm not that quiet any more surprised. She said she doesn't believe that I'm the same person because now if I have something to say, you will definitely hear it or you will read it or you will be staying or something. But now I'm not as shy as I used to be when I was like 5 or 7 or 10.

04:34 They must have going are you all going Martin?

04:37 Much more so much more with the fact that I'm here doing this interview. I think tells you that my 20s. I realized I needed some professional help and I got it and I was able to come out and come to terms with myself my sexuality and it took me a long time to get to that point.

05:00 When did you come out? How was all of that about?

05:04 Well, I just came out of the service and I was probably close to a nervous breakdown and I went to a therapist the first time I said, I'm a homosexual was his office to him and it was a very very hot day in August and I was wearing very short sleeve shirts and our shirt and when I said those words my body started to shake I went to Tremors and he went to his closet took out a heavy sweater wrapped around me helped me and I was able to eventually he'll calm down and I went to the therapy and several years later. I'm able to you know be pretty okay. I'm pretty healthy now did like cuz the earlier you said that it was a really not that good of a childhood. You think that your childhood played a big part in to why you went to therapy and stuff like that?

05:58 Well, I think it had a lot to do with why I was very unhappy and I didn't have a very loving father or he didn't show of a demonstrative. He was a very angry person.

06:11 And my mother was an overwhelming woman should suck the air out of the room as I used to say so between my father and my mother, I guess I'm like millions of other people I grew up, you know, what in a happy way and you know, everyone finds his own route to take to get to where he wants to be and that's the route I have to take

06:32 Pretty much so I kind of look at you Jairo and envy you because they think you're much younger than I ever was at your age and you're pretty much together. You know who you are and what you're about and I ain't never had that kind of freedom to really say who I was at that age.

06:53 I grew up in a different time and a different world. That's what I think. That's why I think you would feel like that because of the time difference cuz now it's 2009 and it's like people's brains are more like open the like people think now before they just decide to say being gay is bad or stuff like that.

07:14 Oh, yeah, I think it's a great time to be young. I mean, they're all kinds of problems about getting jobs and all the choices and all the options, but you have the freedom to be who you are at this point Kids come out today when they're 12 13 years old needs before and I think it's great yesterday was a governor Patterson who said that he's introducing legislation into the state of a sent it to allow gay marriages in New York state and this is something I was completely unheard of in my time when I was growing up.

07:48 How do you like if gay marriage was legal back when you came out with you have gotten married, but I found that point the person to marry that I want you to show me what I have and I'm in a relationship now and I have been for 30 years and if marriage is approved. I definitely want to get married.

08:11 Now, you know why not? I thought pretty cool. I mean 30 years is a long time and I guess like I'm 17 and I've never been in a relationship that's like more than six months and to me that's all I can eternity but I can't imagine 30 years. How did how did how did you come to 30 years of a relationship? That's something well, I guess the trick was I wanted a relationship at some point. I was about 40 years old that point so I came to the conclusion that I wanted one. I wasn't able to accept that before and as soon as I said that to myself I found somebody it's interesting. I never found anybody before because I never really admitted. I want a relationship. I managed to keep people away. But once I said, I want one.

09:04 I think 40 with a kind of a magic number for Maywood today at age 40 sounds like it and it worked it worked and there's a lot to be said for it. I kind of regret old was she is when I could have had one earlier, but you know, that's the way it was nothing I could do about it.

09:22 Yeah, I mean 30 years of a relationship. That's a long time.

09:28 I I don't I don't know. That's do you ever feel like it's too much though.

09:36 No, it's not enough. I think when you get to be my age now 72 you realize that life is very precious and it goes very very quickly. I look back and within my life go. I don't really I do know where it went. But you know what this ends. I don't know. We just went to quickly and you don't know what the age 72 how many more years you have left will be very nice to live my life over again and do things differently things that I could change but I kind of treasure the years that I have in front of me and I want to make them as good as I can.

10:11 This isn't when when you were first started with this person with your mom like involved without anybody in your family involved. Now. I always very closeted about it my mother found out eventually but we never discussed it. I never came out to her, but she wasn't happy about it. And I knew it was something she never would accept so we never discussed it. So you never liked said I'm gay to your mother. Now. Do you wish you would have told her?

10:40 I wish my mother would have been different so that she could have accepted me and accepted my relationship but there was no point in telling her because she just I didn't need to and she just never would have accepted it. She came from that kind of place where you know, it's a sin and what will the neighbors think and you have all those guys eating. What is she going to tell her friend family? What is she going to tell her friends? And so, you know, we never discussed it, but you know my mom she's something like that but she wouldn't say it's a sin she's always so good at Sheetz Sheetz, she'll get mad she did get mad but she got over it eventually and so she got mad because I didn't tell her it when I did told her. I mean when she did find out I was applying for a gay high school. So I think it was just too much when we were sitting in the cafeteria and she asked me if I was gay and I was like, yeah, I like guys, but cuz she had actually before but I've never I never I was delighted.

11:39 So I guess she's like all why did you do this to us? And I was like I didn't do nothing to you. It's my life. And you know that you live your life. You're like all the ready like it's my turn not yours. And she she always thinks it is worried about my safety at the time like cuz a lot of people don't take well to seeing a guy with another guy. So yeah, she would see if she can take it that bad like envy that you had the conversation even though your mother wasn't accepting at least you have to dialogue with our son. And I think she probably come around I think most mothers and fathers wanted the kids to be happy.

12:23 Too. That's what I hear. She asked, I mean she kind of has come around and see if she knows that I'm dating that I'm with a boy now. So she asked if I do know if I'm doing this or doing that it should I was to have a conversation as if it was as if I was dating a girl, but she know that I'm with the guy now so, you know, she kind of went stud.

12:45 I guess they include the guys. Well, that's her way of letting you know, it's something I wish I had that.

12:57 Let me ask you what dreams did you have as a kid about growing up? What would you like your wife to have been well?

13:06 Well, I mean what I say when I was a child, I wish that things were the way you wanted them to be. Like I never thought about sexuality. I just thought you were born liking somebody or something and then but I was a child. I always wanted to be a photographer.

13:23 Cuz I always like like to Capture Moments and I felt that with the camera. You can catch like the weirdest things. I like everybody would have a different view of what you have captured. But now it's like I don't want to do that anymore. Now. I'm kind of confused about what I want to do.

13:44 Yeah, it's like I'm still in high school and junior in high school. So I think I have a Click 2 more years to decide what I want to take or just you know high school and it's nice to have those choices you have options you have it all laid out in front of you. We can go this way or go. That way study what you want do what you want and be who you want Pecan Grove High School Martin your high school experience lousy in a word cuz I was part of my life when I couldn't come to terms with myself and I didn't want to be gay and I didn't want to acknowledge the feelings that I had and I was denying them or acting on them and you know telling myself. Well, I won't do it anymore or you know, all the things that we tell ourselves when we don't want it really be honest with the we are

14:34 So and I was shy and I was withdrawn and I didn't make friends and I was living in this fantasy world know what my imagination is a good time for me. Did anybody know like cuz did you even know yourself that like you like you knew you liked boys right? I know but I couldn't identify it. I didn't want to identify it because if I identify did it would be real and it would be devastating and it would do you know, I'd break up my family and all kinds of guilt feelings I had about it. So, you know, it was much easier for me to push it away and not to acknowledge what I was feeling.

15:17 Did anybody suspect I want sure most people suspect on 3rd Lake noticing into 6th grade, you know, I wouldn't say it out loud cuz I was very quiet but I knew and it seem like other people would know for some reason and they've decided to make their business and like all heroes Assisi of this and that but then I would go outside and kick their butts and it's like

15:53 People would be surprised that if I like boys that I have to act a certain way cuz I was never like a flamboyant type of guy people think that because I like boys, you know, I'm kissing a guy that I have to you know, where pink underwear like lip gloss and stuff like that and then that's not the case.

16:12 I like The Stereotype sometimes you know.

16:16 No, good bread.

16:20 And that's the secret I guess if we could do away with the stereotypes and see people for who they really are and just accept people and that's much more common today. You know 2009. Yeah, I don't even I was growing up did when you were going up. Like you said, it's easier not right. But cuz now we have like you sent it like the Hedgehog Martin instituted. Did you ever hear of a place like that when you were going on nothing existed you were breaking the law. I mean if you were engaging in any homosexual Behavior people were arrested Bars were rated clubs were rated just by wearing certain clothing. It was a tip-off to the cops. If a woman was very masculine looking she could be arrested but man was effeminate he would be arrested.

17:11 It wasn't a good time to until safe places.

17:16 No safe places at all. Now, there's a lot of things he says that's why it's a better time. You know, I mean, it's a better time but that still doesn't encourage people to come out the closet sometime. The problem still exists no having to confront people and stand up and identify yourself and say who you are and you don't feel good about it to accept yourself. Yeah that you can do that. That's the way to go.

17:44 I mean, I'm glad that I'm part of his generation where I can come out and like tell people and you know not get arrested or be in it. I mean, I might still get beaten but depending on the person but

17:57 At you know, I'm glad I can say it and you know that I can take advantage of it when I'm a teenager people lost jobs that were kicked out of their employment. They were kicked out of schools. I know two people that I went to school with college with who committed suicide because of their sexuality exactly. They couldn't come to terms with it. They couldn't admit it. They couldn't deal with it and it when people knew it was just too much for that. They just killed themselves. That's heavy stuff. Did you ever face like discrimination because of your sexuality?

18:34 I don't think so. One reason is because I didn't come out I was so secretive and so closeted.

18:43 I didn't come out now directly until I was well, you know went to my late twenties until I was an adult and at that point I was established in a career and we know pretty much doing what I want to be doing.

18:57 Mirror, that's good.

19:00 She did commit suicide you going to be here. So it's good that you know.

19:06 Play you came out at that age, but I would feel like

19:11 Attach the an electric guitars. I would feel like to lick tied up if I was to wait until I was almost thirty again, you know, you don't have to today today's there's much more encouragement as much more support. They're all kinds of groups for young people middle-aged people older people did the network of people people talk about it more gay didn't exist when I was growing up and people said, you know, he's back way and

19:40 Somehow you had to know that that way men homosexual, you know, people didn't even want to say the word homosexual is that way, I didn't even use words like a at that time.

19:52 It's been so many changes. It's difficult sometimes to know you know, where we are today and where we came from other have a word for it that way.

20:07 And you could say it with pride today. Yeah, you can play with Brian. That's why they have the gay parade. Have you taken part in it? Like I've never been to it. Nope. Never never met God might and we have to take you next year. I'll tell you honestly, I was ashamed not for me, but for a lot of the fun boy in second grade and what other people are seeing in the judgments they make about gays about you know, lesbian spell gaze the flamboyance the blowing kisses a lot of those feathers and yellow the sequins and all that kind of stuff. I was just uncomfortable with it.

20:52 I mean, I think I probably shouldn't be uncomfortable with that. But I still feel uncomfortable when I'm with somebody that's feminine or somebody that I'm comfortable with somebody like a girl that acts like a boy. I'm not that I'm comfortable with that. But like with a guy who's the little too flamboyant, you know, you looked a certain way walks a certain weight with a little like, you know barest but that's cuz like now in time they would like you could just lick it just kick your ass for no reason to The Gambler.

21:26 And it's not that I don't want like I have my best friend is actually very flamboyant and sometimes he knows when to turn it down and went to like act the way he act now, but we were on the train going to the Bronx or something over in the bad in the projects or something. Who knows I do know to turn it down and that's what I like about him. Cuz some people I admire them for their pride but you got to learn when to turn it does not swipe. I don't like sometimes that people just are like that 24/7 and you know, it's kind of you know,

22:00 I don't like to hang out with people like that too much, but maybe we'll reach the time. We won't need parades to identify ourselves. I mean, that's something that we could look forward to where gays lesbians will be accepted will be accepted for who we are and we all need special days to say this is gay pride day. We should be proud of you along and behaving so that's kind of a way where we were always accepted and I say look here we are at me to put ourselves in people's faces. So, you know, I know there are people that feel the way I do and they are people feel, you know, just it's important. If you'd be out there. It's important to show yourself important to you know Republic.

22:43 I mean

22:45 I don't know about like blasting it but it's good to like if somebody ask you you just you can say it but it's not like you have to blast it out cuz

22:55 It's kind of like, you know, it just yet it still weird for me, I guess cuz I just came out not too long ago, but

23:03 Like the situation that happened to me in the train today. I was actually walking in the train and I had some had my headphones on and there was some girls that thought I was listening to my music so they decided to say I don't like it how straight guys addressing gay now.

23:21 And she thought I was straight but she said that I dress gay cuz my pants I guess we're too tight.

23:27 So

23:28 I felt like you know like all what makes you think I'm straight though it like cuz I walk a certain way, but I dress a certain way, you know, I am a stray cat addresses gay. I like I don't blast but I guess people they know or they don't know they think they do and that's what you don't like if you have if you want to know my sexuality ask me why I'm so out of it that you look very strange. I don't think you're dressed gay at all baseball cap drains fine. I think I look fine too. But like for me to be defined by what I wear, that's a good I don't like like if I want to wear something let me where it is. None of your business if I'm gay straight or not or bisexual whatever.

24:13 You mentioned before that. You're seeing somebody now. What the kind of qualities are you looking for in a partner?

24:21 If you can say it's funny 50s know I never would have but no no no, no no, no, no.

24:40 Qualities that I'm looking for in a partner.

24:46 I like first my partner to be honest.

24:51 He's very honest so so that's a good thing. I don't like for people to hide things from me. Like if I have done something and you want to like speak about it. You should tell me before it's like 3 months down the road and you haven't told me in your you know, you bring it up. I don't know where I like commitment very committed person spend a lot of time talking. So yeah, just like I like for them to be honest up straight with how they feel than what they want.

25:24 And he's somewhat of that about you Martin in here, but I can talk about it then right? Yeah.

25:34 My partner

25:37 I love him and he loves me. I guess that's the key to it. I guess when I came out and I decided I wanted a relationship. I was looking for some I don't even know what I was looking for at the time, but he made it very clear when we met that he was a baby and that has seen us through 30 almost 31 years. He's very honest. He's very direct. He's very loyal he does things he goes out of his way for me anything that I want. He'll do he's

26:13 Very sensitive. He's very in touch with himself with feelings with me. He's very protective of me. He'll do anything that I ask of him.

26:26 And I try not to take advantage because he'll be very easy to say nobody knows who this and this and this and this when I know it's something that he doesn't really want to do to me. I wanted a relationship to work and I think that's the secret if you want the relationship to work and work when you back off from it, you don't want it to work if I know what kinds of reasons you know what this is wrong or he's this way they should be that way. So I think the caterer what is wanting somebody to be there for you and wanted to be there for the other person wanting the relationship to work 30 years and you still together.

27:05 Olympic gaining did you like cuz I know you said you didn't accept the fact that you you want in a relationship. So when he was there did you ever like turn away and go to somebody else and then come back and then turn away again. So what made you stick around 10 then cuz you said you didn't want one. He was very persistent. He will come to my house after work. We have dinner together. He stay over one night and then the next week went over to two nights by the third week. He was staying over three nights and I never really asked him to but he decided he wanted to move in and I didn't have direct so he did he moved in and that was fine when he moved in so scared me if he said, you know County live together and I probably would have enough out all kinds of reasons not to but he was smart enough to know not to ask me when he moved in.

28:06 You knew that he wanted to see if you wanted to be with him. Definitely, okay?

28:12 Cuz you know moving games to Dick's that's you know, I mean, maybe cuz I'm young but a person is my plans after high school attended by myself. I think you're smart for a while. So now we know who you are and figure all that out in your career and school and then yes, but taking on somebody living with his it's difficult as a person and walking around the problems of the way the problems. I mean at first I bet you guys didn't have to compromise a lot. But do you still do it now? You have to work at it?

28:48 It doesn't go on automatic pilot head after 30 years you was still you know, you just have to be considerate. You have to listen to the other person. I feel like I'm giving you advice. I don't really want to do that. I'm just telling you what works for me or I think works for me. Yeah, I mean everybody difference of eventually I'll find out what works for me and my boyfriend. Well, I'm sure it'll work out when you want to do I do it. I mean cuz

29:16 I mean, I know I'm young and you know, I haven't been in a relationship myself a long time. So the idea of being in one is kind of still fresh for me cuz you know, we just started.

29:27 Making it official that we're like together.

29:30 Well, that's the great. I'm testing the waters and learning about the other person first learning about you and you know, the beginning is always like, you know, you're feeling the water. I guess you can say I don't know how to put it into it. But I mean, I really like him and you know

29:49 Is gamine I like how is it going? I like the direction everything is going in.

29:54 Hope you feel the same too.

29:56 Well, he's smiling at he's not he's always smiling 10 years from today. What would you like for your future 10 years from now, you'll be 27 years old be able to go back in your life. I would definitely like to be living by myself. I don't see my life anywhere out of New York. I've always been a city boy.

30:22 I've always been stuck to New York when I leave the country. I want to come back right away. But as far as career-wise, I don't know.

30:32 I mean I thought about child psychology and if that works out that I might be doing that but I still like to draw and take pictures. So that's still there.

30:43 What are you cooking by that you could do a lot of stuff? And yeah, I'm actually actually found out about art therapy. I was going to say you're so interested in Psychology and behavior and artist therapeutic tool cuz I didn't know nothing. I just found out about our therapy like a month ago and I was like, oh, I didn't know you could do that cuz you know, I likes and stuff like that and then I like you know what? It'd be a child psychologist in a megabyte therapy, you know, that would be a good thing.

31:11 So maybe I'll pursue that.

31:14 Who knows what sounds like you're open to possibilities? And that's good. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I'm 17, you know, I'm not looking to I'm going to be like I'm a doctor and that's what I'm going to do without considering everything else. Now. I look at you today at age 17 and I think about my own life when I was 17 and boy, are you out there? I just feel like you had it together like everything was just started like you knew who you were and everything in my late twenties. I started working on it when I went into therapy.

31:49 Do you think therapy helped you want to get saved my life my mental Life by emotional eyes. Anyway, what do you think you would have been done without the therapy in an institution? You would have been visiting me there though. It got it was pretty bad. I mean, it's good that you went to therapy cuz it's not like you want to keep it all in your head. Cuz I like I said if I have something to say you will hear it you will read it or you will be saying it.

32:17 Cuz if I keep I can't keep stuff inside like if I'm feeling a certain way. I can't keep it inside it and really picks up me.

32:26 And you know, it's not me. It's I don't like to keep things inside. I just have to say how I feel.

32:34 What brings you great Joy or happiness in your life?

32:41 I like going to school. I really like school. I feel like school has played a big part in my life. Cuz that's why I meet at most of my people must have people to hang out with and stuff.

32:53 I like working. Like I said, I'm doing for internships. So I like to keep busy but not too busy. That's the way I can't be with my boyfriend and stuff and I like eating a ride. I'm actually trying to learn how to cook but it's not working out that well give it time. Yeah. I hope I get better cuz you know, I wouldn't cook.

33:17 Good and what else do I like I like to buy clothes. I'm a big stopper. So I'm always broke when I don't be broke. But you know, I like to buy things.

33:31 What makes you happy more eggs not shopping. I hate shopping. I don't like going to stores. I don't like dealing with people with crowds. That's why my partner is a great shop when he loves to shop. So we complement each other the things that I don't like he was doing and vice a versa I can do not like something I don't care about shopping at the last thing I wanted to know if he knows my size is he shops to me everything that I'm wearing he bought I don't go to stores I can deal with it. And yeah, I like going out with friends having dinners traveling going to the theater thing with my groups that mean a lot to me. There's things that I like that I do that's both of the trick I think doing the things that you like knowing what you like and I've already have the stuff.

34:28 I mean like you said you don't like to go shopping but I love something. I hate going to the theater you do. Yes my heart I know but you can get there with the therapeutic when I know but I can't I like it's not that I've been to a couple of Plano and you know every if I'm ever invited I say, yes, cuz you know, sometimes you never know if you might enjoy it but I can't stay awake. I think it really I can't do in the wrong shows. I can't stay awake. I recently saw a corpus. I forgot what it was called. It was called Corpus Christi or something like that. I saw that not too long ago and some parts kept me awake, but I couldn't stay out Martin. I really couldn't

35:14 It just I don't know it doesn't work out for me.

35:17 Well try saying shows with music. I think the music will keep you awake. Anyway, big boy and Dad age of your birth from the Dominican Republic and there's a show on Broadway now called in the Heights. Wait. Wait. What about that deals with a Dominican Salon Washington Heidi how I actually went to a musical not too long ago by Christopher Street.

35:39 And I was awake while they were singing cuz I couldn't stay asleep all the way up until they kept waking me up, but

35:47 But the talking parts right on television that I will have to do something about it fine to write shows for you.

36:04 It's been a great conversation. I'm glad we had the opportunity to talk and share some thoughts and ideas A fitting feel like about to be about the end so they could only been 5 minutes. Now, you know, it's good that we had to convert. We got to converse cuz right.

36:22 I personally like I don't know anybody that's gay in 52 years old if they are they want to tell me but in my neighborhood and if you would have you wouldn't find it game mature person. I feel like I'm the only gay person in my neighborhood.

36:46 Can I have a friend of mine who actually talked about that? He he lives in the projects in Chicago and he talks about when he comes in when he came out in his community all of a sudden he would go to the gay bars. And there were people in this community that were in the bar. They didn't look that hadn't told anyone just yet and I was wondering from you guys perspectives when you did come out. Did you run into people that you knew that we're kind of in the same space just kind of surprised you couldn't leave it like I could have done this a long time ago.

37:19 I remember one day I went to a party and there was this one boy that I went to middle school and Elementary School with he actually called me a faget one day in the courtyard and I'm at this party and next thing. I know he's dancing with another boy and I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe this kid is gay cuz he was actually calling me a faget and stuff back in elementary school and now he's here dancing with a guy.

37:44 That's what I was like Omega and we took the train together too, cuz he live close to my house. I was so surprised cuz I could never expect it cuz he had girls and everything.

37:55 Well, I met a couple of people at the bar that I didn't think would be there. So it was kind of an awkward moment, you know, introduce yourself and say so and so and you'll get over it. You'll get over it, but I'm still surprised cuz he said to me he he he's gay too.

38:23 Weird definitely. I think it's been a great conversation. But Patrick Martin and Sage going together and definitely use a collaborations. Yeah, I think that would be terrific.

38:42 I think it's an experiment that paid off that shows that you could have. There's a lot to be shared a lot to be said for good.