Tina Beller and Charles Diamond

00:05 My name is Tina Belair. I am a 37 year old female today is January 26th, 2013 and we're here at the storycorps booth at Foley square and Chuck diamond is sitting across from me my friend and fellow veteran of the combat in Iraq 2013. We're at the storycorps booth in Foley Square New York City and I'm sitting here with Tina Valor a fellow veteran and combat veteran.

00:37 Tow truck. Why don't you tell us you join the Army how many years ago? And why did you decide to join a joined-up in 1999? So about 13 and a half years ago. Now I was I was an undergrad in college at the time and I was on my second College already and had been in school for the better part of six years without graduating and I just wasn't really sure what I want to do with my life and I wasn't doing bad in school. I just didn't have I didn't know what I want to do with it. I don't want to be in school just for the sake of being exciting. We got the degree just for the sake of having when I went to use it for something and so I spent a lot of time in the winter or early spring of 99 trying to figure out what do I want to do and then I kind of came up with the joining the Army then specifically going into

01:31 North our intelligence as a way to apply myself where I can still get a degree and still do other things, but it would it would it would give me a reason for doing things.

01:42 What about you? Well, I was 22. I had been in college once at local community college and I had I had I started college again at Penn State the local Penn State campus. I was pursuing College merely because my parents forced it on me and they said it was what I need to do. I did well, but truthfully I was not happy my hometown Allentown, Pennsylvania. Nothing wrong with it. It just it it couldn't capture my attention my heart my passion and I really felt like I you know, I didn't have any purpose direction to motivation. So I had a boyfriend at the time who was in the Army Reserve and who said want to go check it out. So I did and I am listed within 24 hours of going down to the recruiting the cruise office in my hometown and I had a self-esteem problem back then so I didn't think I was tough enough for the active-duty. So I went into the reserve Witcher 3 told once I got in I loved it and I took it every assignment I possibly could and I might in my opinion it was

02:42 Far better than anything. I could have ever done staying at home and Allentown. So not that again. It wasn't for me. It wasn't the right fit. So I was in the reserve for 11 years and had a considerable amount of activity time. I've been to 22 countries 11 11 years 22 countries for deployments to tour to combat and I am Army strong military intelligence. That was like I know nothing like that. I was an analyst actually so when you

03:26 When I was in college, I wasn't sure what I want to do. Like I said, but I knew I want to go into government service. I was doing well in school. I think I'm a reasonably bright guy. And and I wanted to do something that would enable me to serve the Country Inn in a in a real capacity not you know, not that there's anything wrong with being a fueler in the Army. Somebody's got a new fuel vehicles, but that's not an intellectually demanding Pursuit it it's hard. It's hard work and those guys work hard and the people in the 23542 near the fuelers in armors. They do a hell of a job but I didn't want to do a job to somebody else could do I guess was the one I was looking at it. So I looked into I did not join in 24 hours. It took me a lot longer to make the decision. I really researched it. I knew.

04:18 I had been I knew some guys in RTC and I had worked with them some and I really spend some time looking into into the military and Military Intelligence specifically analyst positions exist in every unit PS2 shop every Battalion and higher has an S2 and so you have an unlimited number of options every base has until every unit has until and then there's a lot of strategic level.

04:47 Opportunity in the intelligence field, you know, the defense intelligence agency is is the the until shop for the country for the military the hole for the Department defense day goes all the way all the way up to the four-star general level. There's always an Intel element. They are with the commander from from Battalion on up. So that made sense to me and also that I thought it would be a field in which I'd be more likely to be able to get a degree while we just finished. My degree was excited. I don't know 140 credits when I join the Army so I can I was really close. I knew I could do it by wanted to make sure I pick a field where I could and where I get skills like a top secret clearance that I could apply either in the military or thereafter, you know, if I went to do something else and just the idea of analytical work sitting down taking all these disparate pieces of of the puzzle that is, you know, the enemies of the United States and and the little tiny things we know of

05:47 Got them and trying to put together a larger picture, you know, the story of the Three Blind Men and the Elephant Walk Up on an elephant and the first blind man grabs on the elephant's tail sting in from they don't know what it is. The first guy grabs the elephant's tail and he says, oh clearly this is a rope and the other guy is up against the side of the office and he's feeling it and he said no it's it's it's it's a wall it's a big wall and the third guy grabs onto the tusks and and you know, he says like oh no, it's it's it's a polar railing of somebody that you know, this little tiny thing about this larger thing and they don't know him and the job of Intel as we get all these reports and we we all the stuff we we we no tiny little insights into what is going on in the rest of the world and we try to put together extrapolate from those three data point. So it's an elephant that interested me aware that you knew what your strengths and your

06:47 And you chose to pursue that in the military that I when I went to the recruiter's office that day, I had three job choices military policemen petroleum to petroleum Supply specialist and photojournalist your way those options out. I went. Okay, I'm definitely not hardcore or angry or mean enough to be an MP. So that rule that out. I don't see myself being in to hard labor. So that ruled out hot sweaty days underneath the the Sun and me smelling getting high off Petroleum in off the smell of petroleum in so I said, okay and I'll meet and everyone I've had I've had 14 International pen pals when I was like in 7th grade and everyone told me, you know, you got to go into writing. You're going to be a writer when you get older and I

07:34 I guess I just thought writing was something you did to communicate with people before we had computers and cellphones and I never looked at it as this is who I am. So I just by default went with the job that sounded the most interesting. I never realized that while I was in the Army while I was going through AIT at Fort Meade in Maryland at the defense information school where all them hoes trained killers are born and now I never realize all that experience. I got another appointment on those filled papers reporting and photographing. I never never realized how it would give me so much experience that's transferable to the job I have now as a civilian working for the Department of army, but I didn't know that like you knew that I'd I didn't know that at that time when I enlisted I just knew I needed a better opportunity in the Army Reserve was the way for me to go to be kind of perfect for you. It was the best suited I look back on it now and I think yeah, I think it was I don't know about Karma and fate and all that but I think it was meant to be I think it was the right thing.

08:34 Definitely cuz I've got some crazy stories from my deployments. What about you? So when was the first time you went overseas a 30 days after my my graduation from AIT. I jumped on the first appointment. I was the only one from my unit. He wanted to deploy. I was attached to an Army reserve unit out of Kansas and I went in support of do you remember back in 1998-99 Hurricane Mitch? I came through and it destroyed kind of like Latin America. So my appointment was for 30 days. I ended up volunteering to extend 19 people went home to of a state back myself in an E7. We went country hopping through instead of just being in Guatemala. I was in Honduras El Salvador and Nicaragua, so I had my experience with the sandinistas and I was yanking in banking and the in the Chinook up the EGO Coco and

09:32 Because I remember the night are we tried to go from Soto Cano Air Force Base to Guatemala and we were in these Chinooks and I remember the storm came and we were in another Ally and we had this we had a clear line of sight before we departed and then the storm came in we ended up having to land helicopters in the Honduran cow pasture and nobody had weapons because it was considered a of a safe, you know permissive environment. So we had no weapons, but now we've suddenly have two helicopters that are down in a hundred cow pasture. What's the Threat Level like here? Does anybody know where your ass to shop? So I just kind of sat there going? Okay. I looked at the master sergeant, you know, this Chris the old Master Sergeant. I'm looking around at the the Chinook pilot, you know and the Chinook crew and I'm going I was the only female on there. I don't thinking I don't have I have no idea why.

10:32 Going to happen. We ended up rocking rocking out. We went to bed obviously in the in the Chinook sleeping on a cold. Do you know floor metal floor and the next day you remember on the helicopters? They had like a twice I think want to know cuz they had those porthole window real small round windows. Obviously, we woke up with the sunlight before moving around the next day. You could see these little Honduran kids become their faces through the portholes kind of see you and I that time I realized this was a safe environment. I don't want to I'm going to admit this. I like coloring with crayons in soothing for me. So I took crayon and crayons and a coloring book with me and I went to pack my time, you know, one of those comforted him to hurry up and wait

11:22 Read books like the color, you know, so they drop down the back of the helicopter the ramp and I went off on the edge and I just sat there on the edge of the ramp with my coloring book and crayons and I'm kind of looking out of the corner of my eyes seeing what little kids are going to come up and no one spoke the language. They didn't speak English. I barely spoke Spanish. I mean, I we were out in the middle of nowhere Hunters know where Hunters like the education level was probably really low. So they're really rule really agricultural. Absolutely. There was not a whole lot of communication going on and I was coloring and all these kids started coming up to me and I would watch them run to me and as they were running across the screen fail. They were just they were Barefoot and they were just stepping in the cow poop, but it was nothing to them. They they didn't mind. So that was my first experience. I was 22. I was a PFC and you know,

12:22 States Army Reserve till my first appointment and it was just a wild experience. I never thought that a 22 I would be out of my country's borders and another country writing stories and taking photographs and seeing other people from other cultures. It was it was a wonderful stimulation overload. I enjoy that cultural part of life through cow pasture.

12:49 You do you have any memories from your new your deployments? You can share I mean, I was overseas three times though. Each of them were 4yo at roughly a year. The first time was Korea. I was over there for a full year as you know, as you know, we always we pretty much always do a year when you go over to Korea that would that was right at training for me first. I'm training and spent spent nearly 11 months and 29 days in Korea and was in I was actually in Korea. They have US Army Combat units and the second of tree division mostly in a few other units and then embedded in the US units. We have Korean augmentees to the United States Army or Catoosa, right exactly conducive and we've had those since 1951. I mean MacArthur star that program so we've had it ever since and itzy's Korean to her profession in English and

13:49 Clear easily educated and bait the Korean army. Then there in the crane arm in late. They give them to the United States Army. They wear our uniforms are embedded with us, but they're Korean citizens in the Korean army. So so they're with us. I was a reverse cuz we were a 60-person unit embedded in a Korean headquarters. I don't speak Uncle. I don't speak Korean. None of us. Did the only a couple guys so for the most part we did not speak Korean. We were still a US army unit. We are discrete unit combat support coordination team 3 in in young and Korea, but we are embedded in a in a Korean basic bass head over 10,000 people on it year was a good-sized normal size basic any of ours. It was an Army Level headquarters. There's a four-star general Korean on the base. We had a full bird running our Detachment of 60 set up almost like a brigade headquarters unit. But as a Detachment with no yo subordinate units was just a headquarters and and we existed to in Iraq.

14:49 The Koreans NBA lays on light like a lot of your experience. I think it's been to liaise. So so that was really strange. We were in on a cream base. We had our own dfac but we pretty much a Korean food everyday. We had maybe 40 30 or 40 226 embedded with us even within our unit. It was a lot of Koreans and then everyday wear on a Korean base in a Korean building working with the South Koreans about there and really dealing with their military every single day and most them Spokane attorney. Most people in South Korea speak at least some English and especially the military. It's a it's a real skill that they Endeavor to have cuz if it helps them can you say something in Korean? Do you remember anything while you also means? Hello, Tommy. Is

15:34 Thank you. You say it so well to I got a non-jew is my favorite Korean word cuz it's cream word. That means food you eat while drinking that there's such a convivial.

15:50 Culture that revolves around going to bars there that they actually have a special word for food you eat while drinking and it's somehow all the alcohol words ending in June and I I don't eat me. I'm not a scholar but likes old you is the is The Brood what rice wine like they're sakae basically so that enzymes you mix you the the beer ends in Jew and non-jew the food you eat while drinking and it's so it must all have the same root or something. But but I just found it incredible that they had a special word for it. I just really like I like going to bars and having a good time to we I worked really hard there working with the Koreans but we we definitely went out and had a lot of fun. But again, we are in a Korean town the bars. We went to we're not GI Barse most large US units you go outside the gate and what they called The Ville The Village outside the gate is full bars that are all service members and make sure they're conserving but the people who go there are US service members and they cater to you a service members and there's there's food places that cater to US service members are trying to approximate American food and we were in a

16:50 Korean World Market town where the all the farms in the valley brought their goods and go every week there is Market day and yeah severed pick heads on the table things like that so I can tell that you actually enjoy this assignment because you've been expressing yourself to us your face lights up with a sense of nostalgia event in the couple years. I've known you you've not seen that so this really meant a lot to you. This assignment was interested and it's your first on your first lights like with the Guatemala your first time is always the memorable. I feel I think that's the cool thing about being in the military when I look at the 11 years. I was in the military from 22 to 33 when I look at that time in my life. I found it more memorable more fulfilling and more enriching to me then I did they all the years before that growing up as a child no offense to any of my parents or anything like that, but I just felt so energized when I was in the military, I felt like I had this purpose I was contributing to this law.

17:50 Your front of of of society where I was hoping make generations of American lives generations to come of American lives easier. I felt like what I was doing was bigger than myself and I know we say that a lot in the military circles and I don't want to sound trite to her contrary or anything, but I just a really really really felt like that was the biggest impact. I will make cuz I don't want kids and I don't want to get married. So other than my job and the rest of my life what else is going to be that exciting and so I have maybe a bit myopic opinion, but I think my military years were the best time of my life they sharpen the saw my brain they gave me the opportunity to travel and I think I think that's why to this day. I enjoy New York City as much as I do because I can go and get any kind of culinary Wizardry. I want out of any restaurant I want they've got it all here, you know.

18:46 So yeah, I think it was great getting that sense of traveling and on the Army's dime that but it's about on the Army's Diamond thinks about 6. So again, I was each of them. I was in for a career for a year as in Iraq.

19:09 Twice for a total of maybe 18 months. I was in Qatar for you know over half a year if you'll probably all told us and Kuwait for about a month. It's that are so yeah, it's a you do you get to see a lot to give me one of your no shit there. I was stories that no one is ever going to believe when they listen to this recording like your friends go.

19:35 The way me and that was cool.

19:37 Anything you can share given the sensitivity of your job.

19:44 Unless you want me to do it there. I was surrounded had him right where I want to watch after 11 years. Well, this all happened in what 2004 so I guess after 8 years I should be able to come to grips with this. But yeah, I know shit there was it was September 12th of 2004 and I was living at the LSA write to about a mile away from the palace in the green zone and the colonel and I always will get up early he'd weed battle, you know battle buddy, and he would we would walk to the the gym together better, you know safety and pears and while we were inside the gym we knew we were getting attacked but we were safe in there because of how else was Taughannock on right now. So we came out and we went back. I actually laughed I went back to the area. He stayed up there. I went back to go through my normal hygiene and stuff and it hit me up on BART is so much. I got attacked by rockets in order so much.

20:44 But you don't really think anything of it anymore. I know that may sound crazy to a civilian who might be listening to this who doesn't have that military experience. But you you take cover you wait for the bombing in the attacks to stop and you go out today. Yeah, and that's kind of how was like, so once we got the all-clear we just keep going about our day. I took the vehicle. I went back to the LSA and I think the hairs on the back of my neck went up when the gurkhas were not there at the gate cuz that was the first time that something was wrong. The gurkhas were the guys from in the police army that guarded our area that was their countries contribution to the war effort when they weren't there. I I kind of panicked I got I got I got that hair on the back of my neck when I proceeded in with my vehicle and about I don't know three hundred meters away. I saw someone with the universal distress signal waving their arms over their head and I just knew I knew this was this is bad. So I pulled over in a parked vehicle.

21:34 And I got out and I ran in hindsight. I don't know why I pulled the vehicle over and ran why I didn't just proceed through the serpentine and drive the vehicle up there. I don't know why I did that. But when I got to him, he grabbed me and we ran and as we were running further down the road a man came out with a

21:51 Gurgling Fountain of red blood is pouring out of his mouth. He was just spewing blood out of mouth and I just was like man is just not good and we proceeded further. I'm running now. I'm running I'm running and we proceeded further down to the building. We saw that we were attacked and rlsa it was actually funny that you mentioned the caduceus in the Caribbeans the building that was bombarded was the Korean Embassy the Koreans had hired these squatters to do these repairs and one of saddam's former Palace servants quarters, they were building it up to become the Korean Embassy will they were sleeping there at night. They got the rocket, you know that Iraqi, they weren't the insurgents. I should say. They're aiming with rockets wasn't that great and that's why I hear it's under 10 most of the time. It just landed who knows work mostly empty are is if you think about it at the wrong time and they got hit and when I

22:51 Got into the room when I came around I saw the whole thought of the building was just completely blown out my mama. I'm just sitting there doing. Oh my God. Tell me this isn't happening to me. I remember walking around and there was a bunch of cans of paint on the side and I tripped over the paint the cans of paint and I remember trying to push the door open and I couldn't get in and we later found out the rocket had part of the rocket pieces had imploded and gone behind the door so I can get in but I have to be frank and candid with you as I tried to push myself in that door. There is an amazing sense of paralysis that took over my body that I had actually had this fear that oh my God, what if something was inside and going to jump out and shoot me because there I was with no weapon because you weren't allowed to take weapons into the gym. We had to figure some back in my room thinking of my God. What am I going to do? So I was terrified of what I was about to see in that room, but I got to have courage courage is one of those seven Army values. So I try to proceed through and I saw an araki guy sitting on the ground with his legs swollen.

23:51 He was prostrating for prayer and all he was doing was his rocking back and forth. He was covered in.

24:00 The dirt and the debris from the building and the guy on the ground next to him with his brains blown out all over the floor.

24:09 I just like oh my God, what do I do? Because I had nothing on me. We weren't allowed to take any of that Gear with us to the gym and I felt so vulnerable and so helpless and So Alone by Amy Lee I had no radio. No, I'm not the worst position for you to be in if you're trying to render first aid or provide rescue support, you know, right. So I'm so I ran down the street screaming. I need help. I need help. I need help. Nobody would come out cuz everybody was we were still I didn't know if they thought we were still being mortar to ever so I finally ran about a mile all the way down to where I had the vehicle to where are where my actual area was the enlisted lift and some of the Jose came out and heard me and then they were calling back to the top and then the generals, you know PSD came out in the bank got his vehicle is the Yukon and they were there and then and they were all like, yeah, you know an Avo a Navy SEAL came by before he's like you got to go run for hell.

25:10 And I'm like, okay, I'll go run for help. And you know, I really believed.

25:15 I think I believed that because we were from the best army in the world.

25:19 Best military in the world had the best trained everything. I think I really believed that we were going to fix those guys up and they were going to survive and then when I went back to the hospital the next day they have a pipe and that really hurt because I really like

25:34 I think I still carry survivor's guilt with me that I didn't respond quickly enough that I wasn't prepared and that if I had all my gear with me.

25:43 I could have saved them, you know what I mean, but

25:48 I guess what happens if you have to accept it and deal with it, but

25:53 Yeah, that was Mayim no shit. There was my what about you? I mean, you can't you can't carry it with you but you can't you never forget that at all. Not what I was expecting when I was over there doing my job as civil Affairs cuz by then I had changed him a message change the commands. I was no longer doing public affairs. But when you go through all this training all this muscle memory, you learn how to fire your weapon. You learn how to use your your protective mask and you learn how to run to first aid evaluate a casualty you learn all this stuff and there you are and you feel so helpless. I thank God that maybe it was there that day and he came by all calm cool and collected like, you know, what's going on here. I'm like really are you serious like that, There's people they're dead. They're bleeding. Oh my God. I'm so grateful for him coming by that day if I can find him. I really wanted to say, thanks.

26:45 Fitbit at the thing you got to you got to tell yourself is I mean he was there you went for help here under done for some kind of aid. While you were getting help they got these people into the hospital which was right nearby there right at the LSA. And and so if in the few minutes between when you found them and when they finally got to the hospital you would run her first aid can't hold yourself responsible for that. I mean they were in a hostile environment very quickly you you really do care with you and I know exactly what you're talking about, but you can't you can't blame yourself. You did everything you could in the situation given the tools that you had who went back and told their wives that they were dead.

27:36 Whoever went back to their family if they didn't have any ID on them, whoever went back to their kids and said Daddy died today in support of his country, you know, they were on base. They had to be no. No, they weren't that they were the contractors who work on the cranley right not know they were there and rlsa, what does that tell you? We didn't know they were there.

28:00 Or they couldn't find me cuz I didn't know where I had to run to they were in this sequestered area way down.

28:06 So either somebody new and didn't type up what I personally didn't know. I mean anyone I was a little cheese on the totem pole you help someone went back and told their kids and their wives and their mothers are the special you are being given military practice. Their families should have been compensated. Oh, I don't even know I don't even know how that works. Cuz I was General practice. Well, and also like you said low cheese on a totem pole like everything else in the military. It's it's everything somebody's job, right and you had yours and you did it you did what you could in the situation and that's the kind of best. You can tell yourself Reserve is there you go. Everybody always says that the reserves don't know Reserve in the guard don't you know, they're not real and they don't know what they're doing in there this weekend Warriors, but truth be told at the height of the war.

29:06 52% of the war effort was being manned by the garden the reserve and the other 50% was by active duty. So clearly we held our we carried our way as much as our friends and they had to component that I mean absolutely the whole time I was in especially after 9/11.

29:27 When I was at the command, I was in after 9/11 we had augmentees from the garden the reserve and then when I deploy to know to 2002 we were deployed with units that regarding Reserve units have been called up when I was in a wreck a Note 3. Same thing. The other is considered especially in the in the support capacity of the active-duty is designed to be the military we need

29:51 Day in day out there First Responders. And also when we don't have anything to respond to we need to have a standing army. So that's what you have the active-duty for when we call up and go to

30:02 Invade another country with hundreds of thousands of troops. We don't maintain that capacity in the active duty on a daily basis and that's why we have the Guard Reserve to provide that attitude. So, yeah, you said 52% I believe it especially in the support roles because we don't date a day need to maintain a force of 200000 troops into other countries every day. Like we maintain that peace sign what a waste it would be and that's why we have your the garden Reserve do a real job. Thank you. It's not often thought of as a real job though by different partners and that's why I'm making a point of saying this cuz it is like if we didn't have that capacity we'd be less capable and if we had to maintain that capacity during peacetime, we don't need it if we had to maintain that in the active duty. I mean you think the military's expensive now, what would it be if we had to keep the equivalent of the garden the reserve another 750,000 fer me just in the Army and other 750,000 troops and equipment.

31:02 Basis and everything else it would and we're having enough budget problems with the government. Right can you know, I was in for 10 years 3 months or days?

31:20 I don't know how many minutes but ten years 3 months is 0 days. I got out exactly 10 years and two months after I joined you were smart cuz I got out 30 days before my eleventh year. So I didn't really do 11 years of paper. I did 10 10 years at 11. Yeah, they didn't count that 11th year. I'm like, okay, whatever. So would you do if you got out and needed you like I got back from Iraq the second time I got back on Inauguration Day January 20th of 2009. We Landing I was planning to get out already. Yeah. Yeah, I had been I was going to be stopped lost for the deployment. I was supposed to get like one month after he deployed but once you deploy her you're within 90 days of employment you're held in involuntarily. Anyway. So I didn't reenlist because their benefits associate with Dad about to be in anyhow, so I might as well so I did reading list for those last two years deployed for 15 months got home.

32:18 From mosul Iraq and I got home and saw you went right in the transition process Army Community aid program a cap did all the stuff that that provides the training the how did interview how to do how to use the USAJobs Government website for government jobs in and I just hit that hard starting in May of 09. I got out in August. I was just applying jobs everyday. I really want a federal job. I wanted to continue Federal service. I knew I was moving in New York City at when I got out. I was in Fort Hood, Texas. I knew I was moving to New York City. So I was applying to jobs in New York City area when I got out I was unemployed for a little while and thank goodness you if you voluntarily separate from the Army you get unemployment. So I got employment for a few months yet. You automatically qualify to know that yes. It is a great benefit to the exiting veterans and within a month to get out by September October what's with the new fiscal year start interviewing a lot for

33:18 And by December had a job offer, right? And this was in 2009 year of the bad the financial crisis about economy and everything, but I was able to land a job and I am an investigator for the federal government to investigate discrimination claims in the workplace. And and I mean it's strange to think but the same tool kit that you use intelligence analyst in the United States military figuring out where are the bad guys and what are they doing? And where they going to do? Really? That's the same tool kit for figuring out is this person telling the truth where they discriminate against if so, how is it illegal assessing their story and the Virgin event provided by the employer against the laws and then just trying to figure out was federal employment law federal civil rights law broken in this case. And if so, what can we do to fix it? So

34:18 At night, I really feel lucky that I scored this job. And that I meant to do that transition I talk to you in the last 4 years since we seem to have adjusted. So well your transition went so well and that's and I'm very happy for you as your friend and I envy you because in the Army Reserve and that component we don't get to go to a cat. It's like, okay. Here's your your order says you're done and they just they need to improve on how they let the Army Reserve soldiers transition into the universe. They think that because you're already a civilian life in order and that's not true. I took classes. I went to jrtc NTC. I have no professional development. So I should have just joined in duty, but I was too afraid so I got a lot of friends because I know he's an officer but a buddy of mine was he's a reservist technically, but I think he's been on active duty for over six years now.

35:18 While maybe longer or for the better part of of six or seven years and he's essentially been voluntarily activated almost continuously. And so yeah the denial of a captive reservist and National Guard seems strange to me, but could you did transition how long did it take you to move into the civilian side of the army? Well, I was lucky what I did in terms of employment my writing when I was in a rocking laf to was recognized by the public affairs office down at army Special Operations Command at Friday. So I had a GS-11 offer when I got home so I accepted that but when I left Fort Bragg, the intensity of Fort Bragg is very operational louder than three operational for intense when I left Fort Bragg in 2009 to come to New York City the adjustment from Soldier to civilian and from Fayetteville to New York City was one that just didn't go well and it took me like two and a half years to learn.

36:18 It again because I wasn't prepared to be a civilian because I had been in the Army a lot for 11 years of my Reserve career. So I would tell you I'm still making that transition. I'm not where you are. You have a sense of confidence. I value that in you. I'm not there yet. I'm also trying to find my FIT. I'm trying to figure out if I want to say public affairs or do what you do it. I want to Apostle the Explorer military analyst soap. I mean kind of limbo but I believe that you have to be in limbo to kind of take that next step to self awareness and figure out. Okay who I am, who am I and what are my strengths and weaknesses where I want to go? Where is U10 to I noticed over the course of our friendship you tend to be very evil at the higher levels of awareness self-awareness and I think that's great about you know, I see that about you I do about you. Yeah. I mean you you might be in limbo in terms of decision-making but you know, you got a job. You got a place like Lord knows we know enough veterans employee.

37:18 Yeah, but but yeah, so having having some stability some security to work off of I think it is is I mean, I think you guys help me but that you guys give me some support that I'm so that's what's good about having a veterans group like you guys like we talked about civilians in a lot of ways being a civilian easier. It's it's less operationally demanding. It's less of an alpha environment. It's when things I like about my job, I don't get screamed at everyday much as I love being in the military about to go me to give me the command tan, but the downside of it is you don't have people there.

38:03 Taking care of you everyday of everybody's out looking out for each other and and it's not like that take that uniform off and everybody around you isn't there to help you out necessarily you guys I'm glad we came here today to do this. We just now need to convince the other three members of our group to come back to storycorps at Foley Square here in Manhattan and do a recording with us. Take care, and thank you.

38:34 So we didn't 3835 dude.