Gioya DeSouza-Fennelly and Anasa Scott

00:05 My name is anaza Scott. I am 36 years old. Today's date is January 21st, 2015. We are in New York City and I'm here with Julia Finley a friend and close colleague and environmental Science Education.

00:23 And I'm Joya de Souza fennelly. I'm 57 years old. Today is January 15th, 2015, January 21st, 2015 in New York City. I'm here with an Asura my community partner who helped me while I was a teacher we work together.

00:45 So thank you for coming Jiraiya and I'm excited to get to talk to you about our work in Environmental Science Education doing Service Learning with your middle school students and my college students at city college and I remember learning about all of the project you were working on and you working on a greenhouse rooftop greenhouse on your school. And your kids were somewhat involved in that right by the time did they design did they get to design the greenhouse? Well, we started with the Garden in 1997 because the sense when New York was willing to give the school a grant for $1,000 to start a garden and I realized charity begins at home. So the best way for kids

01:45 Salon about environment science would have would be to have a garden in school and the kids were so enthusiastic about it. It was an inner-city school and

01:57 I figured we could make a deal around my having a greenhouse on the roof and making it a living lab. So I walked with full Foundation at Columbia University who designed the program program with feedback from students and it was that when I met you because you were willing to come in as a community partner and take what the kids are doing and give them a chance to share what they're doing outside the school.

02:22 So I remember one of our first project will you and I work behind the scenes trying to get funding for the greenhouse and we got the funding but it's still the project is still in limbo, right? All these years. Hopefully the school use the money Ryan day and and do that project. But in the meantime, we had we were engaging your middle school students and taking on environmental issues in their Community right to the first. What was the first project that we were the first project was when you came in to the school to work on the UK. You can't have no it was for the green green roof at city college. All kids did it on sustainable development. They did the community project the reached out and they looked at issues around the community and then they did a presentation. It wasn't an auditorium remember and the kids had their posters.

03:22 Bright yellow they came right they came to City College and participated in an hour. But I was 2007 - 2007 Symposium Symposium imposing and Ray and I remember them all sharpen their advisers and I think what made its really great was on their way into school when they were done one of my students who told me she hated science when she first came to my class ran into the principal and she said you're back and she said science rocks happy to be able to go there and see the kids and they were the most well-behaved and most prepared for the thing. There was no proud of themselves great in your class. I recall was probably among the youngest because most of our students were high school. So I did what you were the only Middle School Newton Middle School 8th grade. Is that what they are?

04:22 They were invited and I said because you had what it needed and you fit the profile and you would do something so far Advanced compared to other kids, you know without even knowing it was just part of you wanted to do it and I think that's the since I got walking into your classroom working with your kids is that they had a pride That You Don't See in a science classroom the confidence that you don't see especially among students, you know, in that in those can under-represented communities write a migraine household for all this negative statistics, you know, totally, you know shattered all those was a Title 1 school. And as I was telling you the other day in 6, I would have them 6th 7th 8th grade coming in sixth grade and I take them. Let's do this project and then we're not white kids. We don't go to these fancy School.

05:22 We'd never be able to do it and then by 8th grade a while having a dump do you were on MTV they were here. They won't want to go out and show their stuff. They were amazing amazing. And then it so happens that they got their first trip to the museum cuz we did that a couple of times y c ice. Right? So on their first trip was that with German right when they had the poster where they were doing it in on water supply of New York City from source to sewage and attractive. What is the blind they did the presentation in English Spanish and Arabic because we had kids speaking those and then we had some German tourists who were walking past and they were presenting to them. It was hilarious still have the photos of this one woman with Eric. I think guess who built the rain the rain Garden did Mike Gracin ride the rain Garden model. That was an amazing enough fish tank. So not only what they doing was so cold White

06:22 I only get to do but they were presenting to a broad like diverse audience of people from all over the world, which is amazing. I had the German tourist had kids their age and they will therefore they said they would never do that. Your kids would never even start think about doing a project like that so they was surprised acid and I remember you telling me that you owe your class after one year. We spent we did a lot of product you did a couple of Gardens and we did the Worm Composting and all of that and that you're you when it came time to the Regents you were saying that you encouraged because an eighth-grade you don't they don't necessarily have to take out they don't eat send all my courage than to despite the risk of having many of them not do well and it looks negatively on the school, but you decided to have them all take it right and you always have them all take exactly regions and that they did well better than they usually did after having mandated that

07:22 One eighth grade class always took it and I would ask the principal. Why do you do that? And she say the school looks good makes the school look good. But I said if the kids are not prepared. It really is not fancy. It's a hand pick the kids so that the kids to take it past and I said that's not right because if a child sitting in the class for the whole year, she they should be allowed to take think and what was amazing about it is they were taking the Regents exam as well as the New York State exams to do with two curriculums running parallel to the basically taking two courses and every time I taught the 8th grade 99% of the kids passed effortlessly because soft all these Outreach programs where they was starting and it was the living environment Regents it was

08:05 Science in action though it were they they didn't even know they were starting and they had become experts in all these topics. So people would ask. Why do they do so well, when are the teachers conduit and it's because of the Community Partnership they need to go out. It's 21st century skills communication. Thank you making relevant connection Yukon just eat out of a textbook that kids do too. Well. So and so I remember at the community board presentation that some of the students did and one student was that presenting her work and she was kind of sharing the background the backstory. So she's she said to the audience and what you may not know is that your water comes from, you know, such and such place and you may not know that this is any other so they were so, you know proud to be educating Community leaders on water supply issues and solutions.

09:05 Raymond you remember what was really odd about it. We had invited 15 students and only six girls showed up and then someone commented about it and then the girl said mrs. Finally gave us a chance all of us the chance the boys didn't show up my choice because this wasn't the ratio by biased thing I think six goals during fabulous presentation and changing things in their community and that was amazing because they would go out and do surveys must not only was the surveys making the local people think about issues, but they would then educate them. They had made a little booklet with in Spanish where they would tell people, you know, this is where the water is coming from. This is what you shouldn't do because what they found was people were flashing prescription medicine medications and when they did research on

10:05 They found it was so much and they were talking about how they can improve it all so many of people in the community would fish in the Hudson. So they were trying to educate them about that. They were you need to figure out where your fish is coming from in the chemical bottle mask.

10:24 I'll be reached out they would go they would not stop and what they were assigned. It said they would just take it and run and they would come back with amazing aspects to this project is to say they just had fun because they were given free rein and in the process they loves. I mean it was funny to see them. So we had we decided on looking at they did some water tide like pH testing and they looked at certain certain things and not in the water old minerals. Yes to the minerals in the water supply and they decided to build chemical model of them some of the molecules. It's so I walk into the classroom and there's like some students working on the rain garden and some were doing like a poster with all of the layers of soil and water and the water. What do you call it? The the layers of the earth layers of the Earth's water department and remember they couldn't buy anything everything have to be

11:24 Cycle so they had their coffee right now and I said find something to do and I'll make the models and he did the research and he did the models because he didn't want to do it right and they pulled it together and it was just amazing. Amazing to do that was an image of them found their own Niche and they did what they did better.

11:57 Pretty cool. So what got you involved in? I'll tell I'll talk about what brought me to environmental work and environmental science education. But what made you how do first time the question on you? What made you want to come and help a teacher in the school? I was just curious because I was just a teacher science teacher in inner-city schools. So I had become interested. I was always interested in like environmental issues, but never really had an outlet or knew how to do, you know become involved in and what I was hearing about climate change and sustainability and in college, I got connected to a program project at city college green proofing and after.

12:48 I don't know. I think I was wrapping up my degree. I ended up getting a master's degree there and during that time they gave me a grant that we got from NOAA National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration to do more Outreach to Youth and the community and I've been working with other groups of students who were also a part of the green proofing project and we we have done something at school of the future and that went really well. She got a lot of support the school is down in the finance like a woman in the in the closer to Financial District. It was a lot more support down there for what they were doing in a diverse school, but still surrounded by a lot of stakeholders with lots of resources, and I wanted to bring that to Harlem and Washington Heights and I have been doing a lot of Outreach and couldn't find a school in one day. Some of the fun is 143. Enjoy your family and just was blown away by how much first of all the gardens around before you even enter.

13:48 The school I see these Gardens and then I learn about what you were working on with the School of Engineering and all that you had been doing before and I'm like this is it and it we had tried so much will try to work with other schools at the time. We had been working with about five or six schools throughout Manhattan, including Bushwick Campus High School and Manhattan the Manhattan Hunter school. We were working with them and we would have a great teacher or partnership with a few grade teachers and then they would move on or they wouldn't have the sustained funding or support needed to engage us and we we were still we were college students are grad students and still trying to figure out how to make it work ourselves. When I got to you we had been we had kind of learned the ropes a little bit but you had also had so much you had made so much progress and you had a great partner. So we like yes, this is it and it was just so easy, you know.

14:48 To work with you and then we were able to integrate so much of Community Development work which is what I was interested in and bringing in Community Partners in Housing Development Professionals in all of those folks who were also supposed to remember the building the green the Leed building in Harlem. It was for the foster kids that are out in the Bronx can building remember your lead building and he's with the flow sustainably built buildings for Community Improvement. Me and my kids put together a sustainable Hayden in the school Community Brown gift bags for them to start like sheets and stuff for the ones. I completely forgot about that cuz remember able to go that day, but you

15:48 Yes, I would have been there but when you can't when you and your ears when they had the presentation and white and then they gave them the lead singer of the buildings and all these kids were amazed that he has a rooftop garden and I just thought it was so amazing for my kids because they considered themselves poor. But then he had were these 18 year olds who will being fostered out a list of Satan God of this family had nowhere to run the year. They were moving into a lead bullet load. So cool. That was so great. I forgot about that don't shed. That was really good. I also think that teachers by themselves con do a lot of work. They need someone in the community who can be eleison because he just have to do so much they have to cover curriculum and unless you are given the flexibility as a teacher to redo your curriculum where you can actually

16:48 Look what I taught science through the lens of sustainable development education medical physics chemistry, whatever it was it was always true that and what's the point of having a grade curriculum at they can go out and show it and you made that possible by making the connections of council meeting presentation the youth can you took these kids and you took them out and gave them the confidence in the opportunity, which they normally would not have had so they were so inspiring and it's so great to see, you know, the complexity of Science Education and experimentation like come alive and they see the application like Oh, I like that and oh, I remember now walking through my neighborhood and seeing this issue a phenomena. And and now I know if and rainbow making it in the capillary action of water and why you know, it's not this thing in a textbook or something that's downtown Manhattan. It's happening in the our neighborhood and

17:48 They then feeling power to go out and make a difference. You know, they became so involved they would go out. Let's do this. They would take the initiative and they used to look forward to when is anasa coming back that come out on Saturday and I can meet me we were in the cold one time doing research it on this Saturday, you know a few of them. They were just amazing amazing group of students of but what do you think like, so when I look at you know, science Environmental Science Education and applied learning and service-learning and so forth around so, you know and sustainability engaging kids in taking on taking leadership and sustainability and climate change and all that. I don't see him much. I I hear about a green roof here or there or Greenhouse but you know with the millions of millions of students we have in in schools and and you know, and the education that we know is needed around sustainability.

18:48 Are you optimistic about what's going on now or put the push for stem education and the new generation science standards deep focus a lot on physical science, but for the students to really become aware of this, I think you have to bring in the factor of science literacy where they are not just learning textbook information so they can pass the exam or do well on the SAT. They need to be presented with different research or scientific results and have them understand it and make educated decisions or even be able to comprehend. What is being given out there not just handed information that this is the way it is and we have to make them critical thinkers. Not just men. I now teacher teaches college and I do curriculum and methods for Priests of the science.

19:48 Is who I'm going out with in 14 months into the public schools into private schools in New York City and out of state and I keep telling them your job is to be a facilitator not to just have the kids. This is what we're doing. This is what you need to know because you want a good grade, but you're going to say to them. This is the concept of this is the science content. How can you make it relevant to your life? What is the real life connection? And if you look at it as a whole circle, it comes back to climate change because in the end what happens in the climate in the environment around us ends up influencing everything else and how long is the economics and everything right? But that's so important that you tell your students your your pre-service teachers to facilitate learning and then have it facilitate leaders facility having kids take leadership in their own learning so that they can make just because

20:48 Isn't aware of their actions and what's going on around them so they can make they can take leadership in their communities and so forth not just like being passive recipients of information right that they are really then you can take action in Pursuit and be curious and question and you know, that's awesome. And I always tell them I'm grateful to be having been able to give him the been given the opportunity to work with you to actually see students. Dude. I'm giving them first-hand experiences that I as a teacher was privileged to have I'm not just saying to them this is what is out there. This is that it's not secondary research or results. This is firsthand and I'm able to tell them and I don't impose my topic. So my advice is on them. I say to them what are you passionate about? It could be astrophysics one student like one loves gardening and then I say to them take that and look at a global issues.

21:48 And Implement them in such a way. That kids will then go with it. Didn't you are not teaching in a lot of maybe when we went to school. It was more short-term learning its to get do well on a test. I said when you teach you should teach so that they become lifelong Learners what they are learning is going to take them through life. So you want to set up good values for them. And so I am in school never hated science. I did okay, but I studied like crazy and just memorized everything you forgot it all you know by to the exam was over. But yeah, I wish they had like what you know, I was like kind of envious of devour kids cuz I'm like wow, thank you know, I wish I had the opportunity to do this, but it was it's so amazing to be able to do.

22:41 To work with you know communities and schools and teachers around and that is what we should all aim for I think every science teacher. Actually Any teacher should allow kids to find themselves to find what you're passionate about and then related to what the Aulani whether it's social studies or science so mad and school become so much more fun when you know, it's too much pressure to do content all the time instead of making it making real-life connection.

23:16 They make them better citizens. That's the whole thing, you know exactly where they can make educated decisions and they are not just being spoon-fed in Awareness is important. I was talking before this interview to someone and they're saying I was sent to them so many of my students were from the Dominican Republic and they all come from agricultural background and yet they never got a chance to be in a garden or share what they knew and by giving them the opportunity they love coming in and telling the kids what they did mix in the intergenerational relationships so much stronger. I remember them talking about their grandparents and tell me about if you remember we asked them to make to interview the F up some cures natural cure for as a princess and the stuff they came back with

24:11 Families were collecting weeds from coming to make a lot of rice have to hide because the people, and they made a book of a tentacle made little they made the book Leviathan. They also made like little salute like yeah, and then the other time we ask them to take products that they have and couldn't make an organic version of it. And then the girl made sense of cleaning product and then the girl made the nail polish with the witch hazel and the new black patent it and will be your first customer. It was amazing how resourceful they were.

24:56 Oh my gosh, we have to write this stuff to do you forget about it? Because we had so much going on and never really a documented. I was going through the photos the other day and I will leave my kids. I'm so I can't believe I did all this with the kids and she was like we were on autopilot we had this goal and we just Full Speed Ahead.

25:19 It's amazing. I mean and I see these kids Daphne the girl who has Ms. She's wheelchair-bound and she still thinks of the actually in one of her college essays. She wrote about to experience that you can wear. They showed about the Hydroponics and I'm yes, we did the basil will we have a growing basil is my coat rack, right? She left it down. Buss. You need this aboard their old ways teachers and the custodian they would always help with building stuff. They will help. You just don't know how to help you can say to them and give them options. You know, you can take a look at this is what I need. You say what can you bring to the table for us, you know kids adored and all the teachers who helped us, you know.

26:11 I think so. What do you plan to work on over the next five years 10 years 5 years 10 years. We talked about starting a school. That would be a dream come true, but I wouldn't want to have a structured school. I just want to have an opening at school baby just unstructured. I need to be amazing how you can do interdisciplinary curriculum everything. We need to follow up when people can just teach the kids at home. Yeah, it's really cool. What are you planning on doing?

26:55 You're always up to something.

27:02 Global

27:04 More doing what we were doing, you know globally so maybe cuz I want to try his Leadership Institute and I joined the board after that trip, but they take mostly black and Latino kids to Across the African diaspora. So Latin America Africa anyway with a large populations of African folks and they it's about identity and and Heritage so strengthened young people's connection to their you know to their ancestry and so forth, but also looking at social issues environmental issues and and taking on certain taking on activism and advocacy around social issues. So they take a project in New York City. Some of them are interested in like anything from animal rights to child welfare to

28:04 You know financial literacy or what-have-you Technology Energy and sustainability is a big part of the program as well. And then they bring the kids work on a project for a year and they go to this fellowship and they get stipends and they build a website around it and try to engage the community. They have to host a workshop or seminar seminar around it to share with a learning and then the projects overseas are more focused and it's a it's almost like an immersion College course for high school students. So we've had since as young as 14 participate and it's it is intense. I mean, I was I work I work with them on the program and it wouldn't really it was a lot and they but they get it, you know when it's again, it's applied learning. So they they study the basics of physics of they study language and oriented oriented. Yeah.

29:04 They get the basics of physics. They look at environmental science issues pay and they have two throughout the entire program. They have to do their own research around it. But then they also learn like coach like cultural and let you know cultural issues and then they learn they do language study. So we had a instructor who teaches wolof at Columbia University come in and do well off instruction with us for every day for a week leading up to the trip. So what did they do when they were in Senegal? Look at first, they look at environmental issues and they come up with they do a scan tool eat. They give them like a they do a survey they do. I don't know all of what they were doing collecting observing the landing of making observations of landscape or pollution or how people who made the utilisation, just basically

30:04 Lights without to and getting involved Gathering data do they did ethnographies and then they compiled and synthesize a day to do presentations really to each other. So each that very purpose of the appreciate the appreciate the land and everything else. So they're doing a media is amazing. So once they do it's a 30 day trip. And so I guess for 28 days they do they're doing the research that collecting information. They reading there they have book clubs and so forth but twice each student has to do two presentations or two workshops Ryan Gage of the students and what they learned in whatever they are in trouble. So it's more focused. So they take a special interest within the context of like them or environmental, you know, science issues impacting that

31:04 Area but so they can present it in the way, you know that that so they basically become experts on the topic and they share it. So at the end of it everybody has has learned about everyone else has worked on right see what that right. So they most of them working groups of four or Tuesday depends on but it's an extent. I mean the curriculum guide is like a hundred and fifty Pages how many students went there this year? We took six students from the US one student was a video ographer. He was sponsored by Manhattan Network Neighborhood Network or what-have-you and then we had five kids would just like high-school students on the trip. And then we had six students from Senegal that will also fellows so we spent a week into car which is like the main city and then we spend three weeks traveling throughout the country. So those synagogue together, so they together

32:04 Is it a one-time deal or to the American kids go buy some of them are going to go back but they decided so they want to the organization. We want to create a more lasting program there. And so right now it's been we have relationships we go back and forth. We want to establish a base and and really develop a project so we could be bringing solar to a village so they met with some scientists in Senegal that it working on like solar ovens and heating and so forth and and getting kids engaged in like the science and environmental implications of all talking about so loved and one of the projects I get my students they have to do an engineering design project and I have a student who works on the Cassini project for NASA. He wants to become a teacher though. His engineering project was to make a solar oven using a pizza box just said so often there is a pizza and he doesn't want to turn on the oven in the summer and he designed is fabulous so loud.

33:04 But he puts on his windowsill and it heats up his food left over food. He puts a different one and it was all from up cycled materials, which was amazing ravenzone. You know, I know one thing I always ask him what inspired you to do this and he's like, why would you put on a nap and you defeat the whole purpose and then we have sunlight coming in and I pulled the shade so why don't I connect those two and that's what it came up with and you see this in middle school and high school kids that you have to give them that opportunity. And so the stem thing is wonderful for them. So great. They make students who didn't see themselves as being interested in science at all, maybe like science classes. I don't want to do that, but then they get into it. They see the application for saying that it can be fun and I'm done they draw from the content. So they'll see why did this happen and then they can go back into their curriculum a syllabus and say that's what it was.

34:04 I'm worried. It's no longer these horrible fax papers expected to get on the subway. I was a teacher 20 years ago. And she said you remember that project you made me do I had no clue. I don't remember remember this was the bank now, but it was a project she did on building cells using Jello. I couldn't even you never know how your you know, how what you've done with them a kid. And then when she did this project you said she was terrified, but now she whenever she has to do a presentation. She thinks back to how well she did there and she got so great. But do you know what these are these unconscious things you do for kids don't have to make such a big difference don't we have to talk about that School homeschooling curriculum

34:59 Yeah. So wow.

35:05 I don't know.

35:07 Who is there anything else that you wanted to know how you talk about? I see a lot of things going on in New York and everybody seems to be so conscious about climate change and I just find that we have to

35:25 Percent students with not just the science but also make them aware that every argument or every piece of data that is presented should be taught about it. They have to make personal decisions and I just find that many people jump on the bandwagon without really doing the research and what is the Aztec. I mean, is it something that's a trend and will change on you to use how will I say to them think of yourself 10 years from now with those decisions you make today affect you and you know, we have to look at the long-term consequences of that. I keep thinking about it. My own kids are 27 + 2 + 19. I listen to them talk. What are they are values? What are they chasing after what's important to them? And in the end we have to look globally now because it's no longer. Geez. I live in New York, but something we are doing here might.

36:25 Text someone.

36:33 So it sounds like you two had a pretty strong and important School Community Partnership. Can you eat to tell eachother one quality really appreciated about the other person copper. I appreciated Julia's passion for her kids to take leadership and you know throughout the the course of the project so they was at you know, there's a learning standard that unit. Whatever you call the scope and sequence right? But then we had this project and your students, you know, we would decide on you and I would decide on what we would do in general what we present as options. But then I'mma come back in the students had taken it over and had like totally reinvented the project in really took ownership and it's artist 8th graders in a science class. Just being coached really just being coached and mentored by their teacher in and taking leadership in their learning was just amazing.

37:33 Time for me so and to me and Nasser was just my supporter. So I why she was my sounding block if I sit a nice I need to do that and I don't have time for it should say and any project I suggested she was like let's go for it. We needed funding when we thought if she said why don't we have a greenhouse on the school roof? And I said we don't have the funding. Don't worry about it. She went out she wrote the grant we got $250,000 for the greenhouse the councilman came to the graduation. And now I'm sitting the kids and you are the luckiest eighth-graders you are going to be the first school in New York City with a greenhouse and a living lab. Unfortunately the school got the money and the principal used it to

38:18 Bel Air Condition the gym but but we got them and we'd never know. Did we until the next year we go out and be apply for a second Grand and get 250000 again. So I don't know we just was so we just fit so well and what one couldn't do the other did we just picked up was almost like we finish each other's sentences. It was it was a great chance meeting that worked out so fantastic and it was like they're not just Partners there and I'll send you my kids and you know, we met outside in the game completely different relationship.

38:58 People often ask me about then. What is your relationship with a nozzle? Why does why does she do so much for this school? I know we would like clothes able to ask where very few saw me but not so busy with Julia kind of thing, you know, but it's because we applied to so many Grand Slam did so much stuff. You have town down Robert driving downtown into biodiesel cars in the phone on vegetable vegetable oil and then Garrett with the C&M to buy a project inspired people. You don't know my my my kids would say if someone can give up time to come to our classroom to teach us then we better make them proud. So you really instilled something pride in them.

39:49 You get my students lots of opportunities. They gave me opportunity and you are always taking this one's always taking care of me. Julia apply for this. Why don't you work there? Why don't you make him more money? Where is that? You need those you need that? You can always see where he's about to meet. You needed me to pay check. You know, I know I'm bossy. What kind of glad I was working?