Piggy Blake and Marina Labarthe del Solar

00:04 My name is Peggy. My age is 22 today's date March 9th. 2019. The location is New York-New York and the relationship to my co-partner is we are friends whenever is my Nina lubarda, I'm 24 years old. It's March 9th 2019 where New York-New York and I'm with my friend piggy. So you're the first person that were interviewing and like having a conversation with this whole project which is really exciting. But what can you tell me just to start out with?

00:46 What can you tell me so I can understand a little bit more about the person that's sitting in front of me right now.

00:53 I guess I'm a person who's very strong-willed. I have a lot of goals and dreams that I want to accomplish everything that I've ever said that I was going to do. I have done and I'm really proud of myself for that. Even if it didn't go exactly the way that I had planned. I definitely was able to make it happen. So just somebody who has a lot of big ideas and I like to follow my dreams and I'm very excited because they're things that I also have experience in a way and I'm different ways, but would you like me to start talking with which thing would you like to start talking about first? Like we used to the fuhrer body things. I'd like to just give everyone in kind of an idea where I'm coming from, okay.

01:53 Tell me about your gender identity. So when I was younger, I didn't really think of myself as anything I guess because at that point no one had put any labels on me and maybe I was a girl but it didn't matter. I don't know. I was just a human being at the core. So it was probably when I was 11 that I was first mistaken for a boy, even though I was dressed feminine and even though my hair was very long. It was just something about me that just didn't really fit into that mold and that idea of what a girl or a woman is supposed to be

02:29 And when that happened at first, I was confused like I was confused but I was also interested it was intriguing and it was it felt. I guess the best way that I can explain it is it was something I had never felt before and it was kind of a realization that gender wasn't just what you're born as how did that feel at that exact moment. You remember can you look back on it a little bit and yeah, I'm first time when you were like Miss gendered or you know, like what it feel like I felt I definitely had a bit of confusion cuz I was I was shocked actually I was shocked it kind of just felt like

03:12 In a way, somebody was more. It's almost like someone knew something about me before I did. So that's always a very surprising thing is if you feel like someone is somehow understanding you more than you do at that time, which I it was a long process to cuz once that started I realized I don't know it just everything came with it. I hadn't heard of anyone else who identified as non-binary or who identified outside of gender. What we see is like the two Sexes and so but I had my own ideas of what I want and I knew that I wanted to change my name before I even knew that that was possible. I knew that. Hey you change your name when you get married. Why can I just change my name in general is my name doesn't suit me. And I also I started dressing more masculine because I really wanted to

04:08 Take that part of me and I wanted to become empowered by it. There are definitely some struggles during that time. My parents didn't really understand. I remember having some difficult conversations with them about it. I there were at points where I was actually fighting for the right to wear pants. And when I told my mother that I wanted to change my name she blew up she felt that it was

04:39 She felt that it was disrespectful of me to take something that she had given me and change that but at the end of the day, I felt like what was given to me was something to just describe me by until I figured out who I really was. So I love you were 11-second. Okay, so you're talkin about some of your like medical things that you're dealing with right now and they probably they backed if it was anything like it was for me. They date kind of act like

05:23 Puberty starts. Kind of when it started for me. Like I started having these like really bad panic attacks about wearing like when I first I got to wear a bra and I got really anxious about yeah. I having I didn't know what to scoria was then but I had a lot of anxiety with that and it led to something but I want to speak about and you brought that too late this morning and I don't know if you want to talk about that right now. But yeah, I would love to so I think a lot of I mean anyone who is trans thinking about a transition maybe or just doesn't identify with their the sex that they were born as you know, they feel some sense of dysphoria. I know for me it it happened to be my breast. Mainly I kind of felt like my job

06:23 Wine and the rest of my body kind of fit what I saw but my breasts definitely didn't definitely going through puberty is when I started to become anorexic. I was starving I was starving on purpose. I would a part of pro-ana websites all all the nines and for a long time. It seems like it was okay, you know, this is probably when I got really bad when I was 15 and then it just continued to get worse until I was 20

06:57 And when I was 20 the doctors had kept telling me hey, we really think you should put on weight and I was going back and forth with them cuz of the time I wasn't able to see a trans doctor. I had applied to see in soccer with the it was a year application cuz at the time it looked in the South was just not that much support there, but I kept going back and forth my doctor saying I don't want to gain weight. I don't want to have Bryce. I just didn't I couldn't just I just didn't want to deal with it. And I knew that I wasn't going to be able to at that time afford surgery and I wasn't able to see a trans doctor for hormones to even get my surgery later on so it didn't feel like a choice for you. Yeah, right. So I continued and at my lowest I was 92 lb and I was actually on my birthday. I always walking to go get a tattoo cuz it was Friday the 13th and Friday the 13th tattoos or so cheap, but I actually my legs just completely gave out.

07:57 And I called an Uber at that time. I could not afford it and feel it's so in Uber came and picked me up today brought me to the hospital. And at the time they didn't know they couldn't tell me what was wrong with me, but I wasn't able to walk for two weeks after that date. I finally was able to gain some kind of strings but I still wasn't very strong like you to kind of putting it into perspective. I couldn't stand in a shower. I still had to I had to take baths every time that I bathe because I couldn't stand long enough to shower. So it was really hard and basically what ended up happening is I actually developed nerve damage in my legs because what happens is when your anorexic for Surat eats through your fat and then the only thing left after that as your muscles and once it starts getting through your muscles, it starts damaging nerves. So now I struggle with chronic pain and

08:57 At the time I had thought I'll just put on weight now. I just got to put on weight in this whole hopefully go away which. Didn't actually happen but I will say it's important to be healthy, even if it's hard and and that's why I guess what I've liked people to know. I mean, how do you how do you do it at the app, you know because it's like you

09:25 Like putting on weight in certain areas means having potentially having like very dysphoric feelings, but sometimes

09:35 Like for some people might malloway like even if it's until you get to that moment of like, oh my God, I need to go to the hospital. They're so like

09:48 Yeah, like this pushing through of like no like I can't have my body looking like this because I needed to look like this and you can get

10:00 The dysphoria. Yeah, it's it's not good. And because it can be like you're literally put your health and life at risk and that's something that I'd I mean that's why it's so important to talk about this because like we need doctors that are trans competent that will like help people understand why it's like

10:26 You know not not okay to to be starving yourself for 4 like you're just for you but also like working with your dysphoria to be like let's hear some things that we should like talk of there. Just isn't that Healthcare and that's if it's it's a real shame, but I was wondering what was maybe the turning point after your diagnosis was there may be at a person or an event that made you see things in the new light after that or where did you get supporter? What kind of maybe what happened afterwards question. So during that time I actually didn't have any support. I told my parents and I wanted to come back home cuz I figured this is actually before.

11:26 Had had the fall when I knew my anorexia was at its worse and I said I wanted to go to the specific anorexia Hospital in their you know, and their location so that I would have support and they told me that they were not going to support me in that and that I needed to take care of myself. So I push myself to the limits and of course have my fall, but after the fact I

11:53 My heart breaks in a way for people who become disabled later on in life. I have always been an able-bodied person and then I don't know it was the shock of realizing I had taken it so far that I might not ever be able to walk again because at first I thought I might I just might not ever be able to walk again, and I don't want to

12:16 Put my struggle and anyone else who is not a full body, but it is it's it's kind of a hard thing to gamble with your your life and your ability at that point, especially with no support and not really much financial support. It would have been really hard for me to not be able to work or have that like to not be able to walk would have meant that I would have lost so much in life when I didn't have a lot to begin with and I just it was something in me that I knew that I had to be stronger than when I was dealing with an even with my dysphoria. I still have it. I still have breasts and you know, I'm I am now a healthy a hundred and forty pounds but what I do is, you know, like most people I bind and it takes some of the pressure off it really does.

13:10 So that's kind of how I got through that. I was just a strength inside of me that I knew I couldn't keep doing this to myself and I had to push through and I had to be stronger than the demons that I was feeling with really strong. I'm so proud of you. Thank you a lot to have to go through without any support. What what do you like say to yourself? If you could go back in time, like if you could like his current piggy could go back to talk to you maybe like like when at the peak of one things were bad and like what would you tell yourself what you tell yourself kind things or what? What kind of things would you do you say I really like that cuz I sometimes think about that.

14:00 I definitely would go back to myself and I would say, you know, I know that you're struggling right now. I know personally of course that you are struggling right now, but you have to understand that your actions to have consequences and those consequences are going to guide a large part of than the next you know, however long cuz I don't know what is chronic pain will be forever or not, you know, and I want you to know that loving yourself and taking care of your body is more important at the end of the day then anesthetic and this is an all about Aesthetics of course dysphoria, but I'm just saying at the core of it even if I don't look there's a ton of people in the world who don't look the way they want to look but at the end of the day you should not be putting yourself at risk for that. I love you and there's a way that you can love your body and be true to your gender identity and I just

15:00 You know that that's beautiful. Thank you so much. Wow. Oh my God.

15:09 I need like a second. I don't know if you have any follow-up questions to that but I I I don't want to switch gears if you have anything that you want to say.

15:24 Content context and how how old are you when the fall happened with your birthday? And and maybe where were you in if you could add like and what was what was adding some context to what was going on? So during my fault I had just turned 21. I was 21 that day. I was walking. So I went to the tattoo place. They told me that they weren't taking a card and so I was like, okay. Well, they're like there's a corner store, you know about 1/2 mile down. That's not bad walk. So I was like, okay no problem. I went to the corner store because I was anorexic. I was used to keeping like tuna packs with me in case my blood sugar got low because I knew you know, I didn't want to take myself to such an extreme where I would wear this actually would happen. But I thought having a tuna stack everyday was going to do something which really wasn't but

16:22 So I went there. I was feeling like I wasn't feeling good and I knew that I wasn't feeling good. So I sat down I ate the tuna snack. I got some money out of the ATM and I thought okay. I just ate a little bit. I'll be okay. I'm walking back down the road and

16:39 It actually was an instant and I don't know. I don't know why it was so like that but it was an instant. I fell to my knees and the way that my legs felt as they felt like they were on fire. It's they just felt like they were on fire and what that is, it's your nerves shooting off their misfiring basically, so I'm doing I'm also feels like if I was to stretch my legs like out straight cuz I had them bundled up against my chest if I was to stretch my legs out. It felt like they were going to tear like that is how it felt soap.

17:17 I was like, okay, I can't walk right now. Like I can't physically cannot walk right now, but I knew that if I called an ambulance cuz I already had an ambulance bill from the past and I knew who it is one another one, even though I have insurance sometimes in the past. I've still gotten stuck with an ambulance bill. So I just I didn't want to do that to myself. So I called an Uber very Millennial they came and I was like, I need to go to the hospital and my legs hurt really bad. Just you know, just a drive just I don't want a conversation. I can't right now and they were like, okay got you. And so then I went to the hospital.

17:59 I got to the hospital and they put me in a wheelchair and they were asking me you know, what's going on and everything. I told him. Hey, I'm anorexic. I don't know my legs just gave out and I don't know what's going on. So I was sitting in the hospital bed and they gave me a lot of fluids and they gave me a think some pain killer within the fluids and they were like we're going to need to stretch your legs out and I was like, no I don't I was going back and forth with them because I felt like my stretch my legs out. They were just going to tear somehow and I didn't want to do it but they just took my leg and they just stretched out and it was it was fine. And that's the time they told me, you know, your heart is racing but there's you know, there's nothing wrong with you.

18:43 I mean because it's very hard. You'll see an emergency hospital is very hard to identify nerve damage. That's something that you have to go to a specialist for.

18:54 So at the time they didn't really know there was anything wrong with me, but I my legs really so weak from everything that I just I would just wasn't able to walk I had to take off work and I finally went back to work. I would I was chair-bound. I had gotten a letter from the hospital at least gave me that even though they thought there was something wrong with me, but they wrote on it that I need to be like sitting until I was fueled I'd say it took about four months to finally get to a place where I could start walking and taking showers and you know, but I definitely still do struggle with the pain The Chronic pain, so

19:36 So before you move to New York, where you where were you living? I was living in Kentucky. So you need to talk to about some of your experiences in like having some fear in life in the community it right it is this mostly like in Kentucky or or in general and can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah. Yeah. So in Kentucky, I definitely felt fear for multiple reasons one is my queer identity and one is my black identity.

20:15 Definitely it it's kind of there was a point where there are a lot of points where people yell out of the car guy get

20:28 And that's an I don't know. I just I wasn't really affected by that word cuz it I guess it just to me it was this is so weird, but I feel like other queer people understand it was actually someone recognizing my queer identity. And I know I wasn't offended. I was just like I don't like you you get it when you get what I'm doing, so

20:50 But there were definitely times but I also I felt fear, you know, when I was in college, I went to a liberal arts college in Kentucky. So the college is like Barry blue in a red suit you like so the outside outside of the college in the city all of the community. They don't really like the college that it's there. They don't like with a college represents. You know, my calls was big on diversity and big on understanding and an empathy and it just the town just in really like that. So

21:25 You know there were times where you know, I'm crossing the street and you know, the walk signs on like it is safe for me to cross the street and trucks would rev their engines. And at first when this first happened to me, I was scared. I was like, okay, they're about to go and I'm going to die right now. Thankfully they never really did. It was just a scare tactic it but it definitely has stuck with me. It's just I can't imagine that mine said I can't imagine where someone's at that they that they themselves are so afraid that they feel like they have to put that fear onto someone else.

22:06 I definitely don't with that other things that I've kind of dealt with like a sphere in the community is

22:15 It can be kind of hard with other people's parents like it when our friends parents and things like that. I kind of I kind of I kind of feel like I want to hide a little bit just because of my own experience with my parents and they were not accepting and the last thing I want is for my friends parents to also not be accepting and things like that and I don't really have a lot of anxiety when explaining my identity to people

22:44 Come who don't really understand it and if someone's willing to listen, that's great, but a lot of times that you have anxiety about it. One of the most recent scares that I've had was actually in, New York.

22:55 I I had a queer hat on just said Queer on the beanie when I was sitting on the bus talking to my sister on the phone and it was crowded Buzz. So all the seats were taken up and then there were people standing in the middle and I hear the sky kind of like I can't fully make out what he saying cuz I'm on the phone with my sister but he's kind of saying things like Blac Chyna doesn't know I'm going to beat her something. We know something like that. He's like she doesn't know that I'm going to hurt her stuff like that and I'm like, this is I don't know what I'm hearing. Like, I don't know if he's on the phone cuz I'm not looking at him and I don't know if he's just saying weird things to someone else but

23:43 But I just I feel unsafe I feel uncomfortable. So I told my sister. Hey, I'm going to call you back and she's like, okay, no problem. So I get off the phone and I look and this guy.

23:55 Is like

23:57 He's definitely a little crazy but he definitely because of my hat had triggered something in him. So he was yelling at me saying I'm going to beat your face in when he got in my face and was like yelling and I was so scared because I I I mean obviously I don't know what I would do to you. So so so so it's like a crowded bus. There's no way I can lick run if I need to you know, he he's RC impending my safety, but I didn't know what out I kind of had in that situation to the other people around most people were just kind of like looking at me and not saying anything there was actually one guy I work all this he was actually recording the guy who was threatening me.

24:48 With a cell phone

24:50 And I just I don't know. I just felt like something is going to happen and none of these people are going to help me. That's kind of how I felt.

25:00 At the at the next stop that the bus took I just ran off. I just ran off the bus because I just I luckily was able to get past him if he didn't touch me like he did not actually assault me. He just kind of this verbally assaulted me and this guy actually gets off and he's like, hey, I'm just letting you know, I'm in the military and if he had done anything to you that I would have stepped in and so even though he didn't say anything as a bystander. It was actually good to know at least somebody was there for me in a way and he was like, are you okay? Like can I help you? Like he was he was really supportive. I think he didn't want to say anything because he didn't know if it would, you know, make invoke like violence out of him, but it was actually like good to know in that situation. There was someone he was looking out for me.

25:53 And so I'm I'm kind of like glad that at least in the Spheres that I've had. I've been fairly safe. I know that's not true for a lot of people, but I have been fairly safe.

26:06 It definitely is a struggle though. I do have some fears because I am on testosterone and I know that as I transition more I may be mistaken for a black Trans woman during this in between. And I know the violence towards black Trans women is is is so extreme that I do have fear about that. I will be honest and you know, it is at least being a New York. I do feel so somewhat safer, but I know that kind of things can happen anywhere in and it's your it's kind of feeling of you're never really safe unless you're in your home or your friend's home.

26:50 He talked a little bit about more about those fears that you you feel like a potentially being like red as a trans femme.

27:04 Like a trans black them because there's so much violence against that's pacific room and Community. Like what do these fears look like on a daily basis to feel like you

27:19 Like change the way that you act her dresser and you know what? I'm trying to ask again, I guess the best way I can put it is there's not really a point where I change the way I dress for anyone else. I'm very like proud of how I dress and I and I I don't think solely based on how I dress is what I will be attacked for. I think it's the

27:48 Like I've had it a couple times where someone tries to clock me already thinking that I'm like a trans woman like saying like, oh your suspects things like that and I'm actually like well, I mean, I don't like it. It's a weird. It's a tricky situation because I'm actually the opposite I'm actually transitioning the other way. So it's like I don't quite know what that how to take when someone does something like that. I just let them know like I'm non-binary. I don't have to prove any genitals to you. But definitely the fear is

28:27 There's like big fears with like men. I feel like if a man at first they think oh, this is a woman and then they find out just might not actually be a woman, but I've been hitting on them. So maybe they tricked me and now I'm becoming aggressive because I'm mad that you tricked me and you attract but I attracted to you and then it's like overcompensating for this like like that so far I have been faked clocked, but other than that, I haven't had an experience where someone was aggressive towards me. I have told people like I have

29:16 I have had people come up to me and start hitting on me. Like I know you're beautiful and all this and I just say I'm not a girl. I just am not a girl and I've had one guy who who stared at me for so long because he couldn't understand what I was saying and I was like, I'm not a girl and he just walked away like super fast. Like he was just like like at least he's kind of thinking his mind the wheels were turning like am I attracted to someone who's not a girl and then just want to do that?

29:48 That's very relatable. Ya trick view. You might actually need to do some like you are. No, that's fine.

30:07 I had no that's that's a lot of beer no matter where you are. Honestly, like even just New York. I moved here for the safety of like having more trans people around me. So I'm and I live in Chicago. So it's not even like like Chicago's look like very trans friendly. I mean but in New York, I've been harassed a lot and it's so it's like even when you go to a place for you think that it's going to be

30:43 Things are going to be like much brighter. It's still like the violence against trans people, especially when you don't appear like you don't look like one of them binaries took to that person. It didn't it instills all the sphere inside of people and I wish that it didn't but I guess that's why we're doing this right like to try to take some of that fear away and be like, hey, like we're we're just human beings just human. That's definitely one of the biggest things I think people, you know, there's definitely some confusion. They don't understand and I kind of tell people you don't have to understand in a way that you can empathize because if your binary you never will

31:36 What you should know is that you can still have respect for someone regardless of the differences and at the end of the day.

31:47 I put on my pants one leg at a time. You know, we're all doing the same thing here. We're all just trying to live for all just trying to take care of our families and we're all just trying to hang out with her friends. Like, you know, it's just it's kind of weird that being outside of the binary makes people view you as something other than human is it's a really really it's kind of disturbing but it's also it it kind of sorry. It kind of shed a light on how people's minds work. Like if you're just something they don't understand automatically you lose that Humanity to that man. That's that's really sad and it's really hard. What do you say that like

32:31 Like outside of your identity as a non-binary person like did you feel some of these things like just being a person of color because I know that when I moved here from Peru, and I'm I'm white. It's like it's not even like like

32:51 Is it just our face a lot of violence just from just that in and of its own and like dehumanizing and sort of feeling like like oh you are not I don't understand you. So I'm scared of you. So even before like I came out as trans or realize that I was trans. I already had some of these like things that I are familiar feelings kind of an I don't know. I wonder if you if you if that resonates with you at all or not. It definitely does of course being a black person, you know, that's that's being a minority and you take all of the ideas that people have of minorities on just walking just going through your life and I think the definitely being a part of the LGBT community as well. There's a lot of correlations between

33:51 No treatment that I got or like misunderstandings about a culture one culture.

33:59 It definitely I know in the black community. It could be hard to come out especially because there is this kind of idea that you're already in a minority group. Don't make it harder for yourself and I just want to like for anyone who doesn't know it's hard to stay in the closet. It's hard to not live life as you truly are and how you feel and and I think in the same way that I am proud of my black identity. I'm also proud of my queer identity and those things they they go they're all a part of me. It's not like you choose one at a time or if you're mad about this one. Like if you are attacking me in your just attacking All of Me.

34:47 I luckily there wasn't much racism that I endured. I actually heard another little story actually heard.

34:59 Another block queer person. Say that

35:04 That for them they would rather be viewed as queer and be attacked for that than they would rather be attacked for being a black person so they told me they were talking about it. They said that they like to be as flamboyant Lee dressed as possible because of someone's going to hate them. They want it to be for their queer identity. And I don't know I don't really know why I guess I can kind of understand it's like you don't at least if you're only being attacked for the same thing consistently you can kind of you can stand on the pride that you have for being black and then you can fight for the power to be queer and I I don't know I just that really stuck with me and I really appreciated that for me. I most of the time I feel like people

35:52 Assume that. I'm not queer. It just kind of depends on the day how I'm dressed up loud. But it definitely I feel like when people see me, they see a black person first and then when they get to know me, they know a queer person and I I guess that's kind of how I go through life.

36:08 Close I can find you just like said so many great things. I have. No it's a like if we could but we can talk about in the next 5 minutes slept like I'm like, wow, this is all just like I'm so touched me good. Do you have any questions? I also want to like give you space a few if there's anything else that you want to say and he's like next 5 minutes like anything else that you'd want to talk about.

36:40 Nothing of questions or just something that I like to always think that the ending of a conversation. She was really wonderful to say and

36:48 Either Lessons Learned her how would you like to be remembered or something kind of using the type of your time capsule moment?

36:56 I guess a big takeaway from this is at the heart of it. There are going to be people who don't like you you're going to struggle with your own inner demons, but I just want you to know that you will always in life find a community of people who are going to support you and who loved you might hear often, but it's a big thing in the community that friends are the family that you choose and and I probably wouldn't have making it made it this far without my friends ships.

37:33 Another thing is I feel like I really want to be remembered that I am somebody who I've made mistakes and if you're listening that I made those mistakes for you.

37:46 And I hope that you listen you hear my experience in that if you understand and you know what it's like to go through this that you at least he needs some of the warnings so that you don't have to go through life with pain. And another thing that I want you to know is at the end of the day.

38:06 You are stronger than anything I can come towards you. I am constantly reminded of that. Every time that I think of this no way. I'm going to get through this I get through it and come back 10 times stronger and there is such strengths from going through trauma and pain in your life. It just makes you a more creative person. It makes you someone who just sees life in such a different way and it's important to recognize that everything that you go through is molding you into the person that you are going to be in to the person that is going to go through life. And when you think about people, you know, I've had it before I think I wish I had that family support and I wish you could have just been easier but

38:57 Comparative Lee when someone hasn't really been through much in life when they finally feel a struggle it is going to be 10 times harder than what you have been through in. Another thing. I wanted to just add really quick. I like to keep notes to myself every time that I struggle and every time that I have a good day. Those are the two days that I make a note for myself. And the reason for that is because when I look back at those notes, I've been doing it for two years now, so I have a good time like throughout my whole journey with my green identity changing my name and

39:32 But I want you to know that when you do that when you actually write those things down you can see and you can remember where you were and where you are now and how you got through that in the past that it took and it is great and it is amazing to always have that with me to know. I know I can get through this because I got through that and I can just visibly see that so I hope that helps anyone that helps me and I mean literally I am so inspired by everything that you just talked about and I feel like your words hurt me so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. I really love you.