Betty Cohen and TC Cowles

00:02 Hello, my name is TC Kohl's. I am 29 years old. Today's date is April 16th, 2018 and I am in, Palo Alto, California.

00:18 My name is Betty J picon.

00:23 I'm 87 years young today's date is April 16th, 2018, and I'm speaking to you from Palo Alto, California.

00:38 And TC is my supportive care nurse in the Stanford NeuroScience Center.

00:46 Wonderful. What's so great to be here with you buddy this morning.

00:51 I'm delighted to be here. This should be fun. I'm excited for this. How are you feeling? I feel fine. I left the rain. It was pouring when I got up. I'm sorry. I just stopped for rainy day this morning for sure. I wish you would continue for the day. I must be a duck.

01:09 If I should we can enjoy it while you're the California Sun should be coming back this afternoon and on for the week. So looking forward to that. So.

01:21 Can you tell me a little bit more about how you met your husband?

01:25 Yes, we were teenagers in different schools in the borough of Brooklyn New York City. He was at the Brooklyn Tech and engineering high school.

01:40 And I was at Tilden High School. Just an ordinary Public High School.

01:46 And we met and Youth Orchestra that met every Sunday and played a rehearsed all day from morning until late afternoon, and the conductor was Julius rudel.

02:01 Who became very famous worldwide, but at that time it was a young man and my guess is that maybe supposed to Scripps job. He was quite a Taskmaster, but it was a wonderful experience Albert's my husband sat in the first end first violence, and I was tucked in the seconds.

02:22 And there would be one major break and then to Mission my most people went for lunch. We never went for lunch somehow we

02:33 Noticed each other when we could go for walks.

02:37 And walk and talk and at that time in life, he did all the talking and I listened in awe.

02:44 And I always say thank God for intermissions because that's how I met him. Then we found out that we were eating. Off castra because we have the same violin teacher and he had recommended each of us to be in the darkest red with Jacob mistaken and elderly fresh and gentlemen who have been the people of the LIE.

03:08 Great Renown to Leopold Auer from Russia.

03:12 And

03:17 It was just a wonderful way to meet and this went on for several years.

03:24 And

03:26 It was fun. And we was done at the end of the day walk to the subway station and we each have to take how to take a different Subway, but we would sit on a bench and let all the trains go ask.

03:40 And just sit there and communicate and I come home and my mother would say this happened weekly. Why are you so late? I would tell her what we were talking.

03:52 Did you know he was the one when we first met him?

03:56 I was very much taken by him.

03:59 And so much so that when I found out when his

04:03 Private violin lesson occurred with Jacob stechkin. I had my changed so that I could follow his and smile at him sweetly as he walked out and I walked it.

04:16 I did not admit that to him until many many years later now. I don't think he would remember it. How old were you at the time? I was 16 when I met him and he was 17.

04:27 But we didn't start to go out or date until I was 17 and he was 18 he was shy and I remember when he was trying to ask me out for a first date a year after we met.

04:43 Just having a very difficult time of it. So I invited him to come to my parents place to play duets.

04:52 Which he did he doesn't live at all nearby. Even though we were in the same Borough, we had to take two trains and a bus I believe.

05:00 And we started out playing Duets. It was a disaster very quickly put his violin down talked. It came to me my now put it down as it lets go out, but instead of being insulted.

05:19 I thought to myself. This is an honest person and I greatly respect on this date. That was a big it was a huge Plus for him. And we never played you rather. I was not of his caliber so I just don't recall.

05:47 That sounds like a pretty unusual circumstance to First invite the guy to come over your parents house to start playing Duets. So how much further will you guys continue to date until you decided to get married five years. It was lovely. We had a five-year friendship so that by the end of five years. We've been you each other and I just I'm not going to even know how are getting married to him about I don't remember his proposing. I know I didn't propose. It just happened. He doesn't

06:22 Even before he became so ill from Parkinson's he can't remember how it came about us. But after five years we just got married.

06:31 And then so after you got married, do you guys have any kids?

06:36 Yes, 13 years later 13 years.

06:41 If we continued with her education

06:47 And what were you pursuing?

06:52 Oh, well, we both we decided that we both have to get her bachelor's degrees before we would get married.

07:00 And the outlet went to an engineering high school and was fantastic and math and physics and all his heart was with music. You study violin from Age 5.

07:13 And

07:15 He took some engineering courses at Columbia and all that his heart was with music and he told his father that his father.

07:25 How to fit

07:29 Because he was determined that the sun would be in engineering.

07:33 And he was so upset, but he told me he went to a neighbor's not that enables drawer to say, can you imagine my son wants to be a musician?

07:50 Anyway, his phone is said if you're determined to do that, you have to be accepted to the best school. There is.

07:59 And if you are

08:02 I'll try to help you and if you're not you'll continue with engineering so they shook on it and I'll bet practice like crazy over the summer and audition for Juilliard acceptance. So he went to Juilliard graduates is on Fire Island from that and then went on for a masters and PhD in musicology get New York University to chose that place because of Gustav recent court sucks who are the two most eminent music colleges in the world at that time. We're both at NYU free at that time two, very different people. So he had a fantastic education me while

08:46 What about you?

08:50 Obtained my bachelor's and my masters from Brooklyn College of the City University of New York.

08:58 And throughout my masters, I worked at the Rockefeller Institute for medical research.

09:05 As a researcher and biochemistry.

09:09 And when he had his first academic appointment, which was at the University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan, I told the head of my lab doctor. I know the mantle magnificent person who was a true Mentor that I would have to leave and she asked why and I explained why.

09:30 And she asked me what I would do when I got to Ann Arbor and I said I'd get another research position and she said oh no, you won't because you're going back to school. You're going to get a PhD while we had just finished up. It's a PhD. I had done the editing the proofing the typing on an old-fashioned typewriter with carbon copies sent up computers when we don't even have electric typewriters then

10:00 And that's what started this all over again. I just looked at her as if she were mad at you. You're doing it. She insisted that I send materials and applications ahead and a wonderful offers and This Magnificent woman.

10:18 Cleared her big desk and spent the day with me doing through all the material. So I came from the University of Michigan and help choose the program that she saw thought was best match and that was in the hospital a public health department of epidemiology virus labs.

10:40 And I did a PhD in epidemiology. My specialty was influenza virus might x a bench scientist researcher working with a wonderful man from Syria who named the sub. They all called him John and he and his wife also from Syria brought his bride over from Syria and Albert and I became true buddies and we'd go to this home office and said dinner and the dinners his wife cooked or exactly the types of

11:17 Foods that help its mother had prepared. Albert's ancestry goes back to Spain and his ancestors were chased after in the Inquisition and they settled all around the Mediterranean some in Egypt some increase summon turkey. So his father was from the island of Helios Greek island and his mother was from Smyrna turkey.

11:43 And

11:46 And the Crusade was fantastic. I still have been invited there and so here with my

11:54 The rest of my research we have the same creature. It really looks almost identical you love them.

12:08 And my daughter and my PhD, we're like two days of first.

12:21 And nothing happened. Nothing happened. Nothing happened and I wasn't to spare but when I was at the height of my research, I guess my focus I could focus on my fixation anymore.

12:34 And

12:37 Became a race to the Finish.

12:40 I was up.

12:42 Alright 8:04 a.m. Every night make us when I became a night owl typing this time. I have an electric typewriter electric typewriter type us wanted two weeks. And I knew I didn't have two weeks. So I did it myself. I'd be back in the lab at 7 a.m.

13:06 To redo or add any experiment that anyone on the committee wanted it with two possibly three. I don't remember outside members and they always wanted edition of things.

13:18 And

13:20 I can get whatever this site requested and then back to the typewriter.

13:27 And I remember we had this talk that I had rescued from the lab, but that's another story. She became the love of my life and I always consider shy my firstborn Sophie Sophie Sophie. Don't ask me how I came up with the name. I would see her in the lab hidden away and every day go in and give her a good Ian to somehow of an imperfect came out of me, but I called her also. That wasn't her real name. That was what you have. No idea what your real name was.

14:02 If he's okay with doing research on the lab and tissue cultures and there was a doctor, remember his first name wanted to try a tissue culture made from the Committees of newborn pups sounds terrible. I know but let's research and where to get a newborn pup. Well, this is lovely Tucker poo has been owned by a family and at a very young age ran off became pregnant came back home and the people were just disgusted with her and donated her to medical research.

14:45 She ended up in some lab but the hospital of the University of Michigan and they thought you was too nice a dog to use for whatever they plan to do and they knew of dr. Cochran desire. So they gave her to dr. Cochran. She had to be hidden because no dogs are allowed in of the virus lives where I was because there were ferrets.

15:08 And dogs can carry the distemper virus and ferrets are very susceptible to distemper. The whole Colony would be wiped out could be wiped out. And so if I head of the department Thomas Francis Jr. If he had known we would all of them. So the dog was hidden away until she gave birth. Her pups was sacrificed immediately stuff for Doctor Cochran's research, but there she was left. She must have been allergic to something in the 10 where she was hidden in the back room. Somebody told me he has to have sheet for some research and perhaps she was allergic to the dander from the Sheep being impaled the place up and clean. She developed. She lost all her Fair. She had big bleeding ulcers.

15:56 Poor baby and then word got around. We have to get rid of her if somebody doesn't volunteer to take her. She has to be sacrificed because we can't keep her around any longer with David. Francis might get wind of her being here.

16:12 My browser to a vet and the vet said

16:16 Don't get involved too far Advanced never going to heos just don't but she look at me with her big brown mellow eyes and I thought my heart would just of God. What a lovely dogs are so Valentine's Day is not far off. I got a big red ribbon made a bow around your neck. Thought I had lost my mind. Did you like do you like dogs or any allergies to pets the wounds healed very quickly the fear of robots sleep and black and beautiful and she became my shadow house and she was a nice loving marvelous stuff one could ever want

17:10 And I adore her and she adores me.

17:13 That was my first dog ever.

17:16 You mentioned that we also felt like that was your first child. Yes. I told him my first my first born and when all the other students was so nervous. They were popping all kinds of pills to calm the nerves to stay awake to study and they suggest this that and the other pill to me and I shake my head. I don't need it. I have Alfred on one side. I have 50 on the other hand when I get nervous thinking about it sounds coming up right which was pet one the other one the other night because I got to sleep in a way dogs can be very therapeutic day going by without without one. Yes yellow lab.

18:16 After my favorite baseball player Derek Jeter, so we called him Jeter.

18:21 And it told me a lot of lessons is a young adolescent boy growing up responsibilities having to walk him except front in care of him. And yes the calming effect. It's marvelous no matter what age you are.

18:39 Can be very helpful in reducing Stress and Anxiety. And then yeah, I want to move to st. Louis after Jeter passed away. I got another dog and keeping with the sports theme. I got a black lab this time, but I named him after my favorite football team the Tennessee Titans, so I called him Titan to use half mix used parts show part black lab personality. But another time will tell you the story of my second dog.

19:20 Totally the opposite of my puffy but the sad thing was Sophie was that when my daughter after is born was born.

19:30 But he was very dismayed and did not accept her so and I was feeding her for people try to Claw at her but try to claw Between the Bars of the crib.

19:42 And if anyone would say you have to get rid of her you have to get rid of her. So I'm the child and I would look at people and say you expect me to get rid of my first born.

19:54 No way and so with perseverance and patience, so if he came to realize she could not harm this newcomer, but she never be friend of the new couch. So when even my firstborn started to crawl in with crawl towards buffet with Droid fluffy turn up her nose and go to the other end of the room in evil with crawl to the other end of the room turn up a nose and go back to the house. So she never be friends with her, but you never try to harm her again.

20:25 And I accept it. So remind me what what what time shirt are we in when this was happening? See? We got to Ann Arbor, Michigan in 1960. We stayed there for 10 years until 1970 if I was born in 1965.

20:44 Tell me more about the 14th 1965 and it was such a joyous.

20:50 Happy occasion, everybody in the labs have been predicting that it would have a boy.

20:56 The way I looked and I really wanted to throw her so badly. I think it's Boise. My second was the boy and I was thrilled to have him but my mother and I are extremely close.

21:11 And my mother and her mother were extremely close and I witnessed that and I wanted the same thing for myself.

21:21 And so the real thing boy boy boy and I are a fine. So I'll have a boy when I was told I had a little girl I burst out laughing and he said why you laughing cuz everybody was wrong and I have exactly what they wanted for my maternal grandmother.

21:41 Eva whom I admired tremendously. She came to the United States after the Russian Revolution.

21:52 They had been a family of of means and

21:58 Everything was lost in the revolution.

22:01 I don't have the story of what happened to my grandfather. I know he died or was killed. I don't know. It's never clear to me.

22:11 And she was a widower with five children five offspring.

22:17 Made her way to the US sponsored by half-sister who arrived in the US previously.

22:25 Angela

22:27 I said was monitored that that you came on her own with these five children and saw to it that they were all well educated. And how did she do that? She had observed that had a cook in Odessa Russia, then it was part of the United Republic of Russia whatever it was called now, it's Ukraine, but then it was Russia and have served whatever the cook would do particularly in baking and she thanked phenomenally. Well, I remember watching her my cousin Jesse my bills at one of my mother sisters and I were just saying I would watch her pull out of strudel Dough made from scratch on this huge dining room table pulling butter with pup. Never did.

23:18 And she made the most phenomenal cakes and where it spread to neighbors. And if anyone had a special occasion of wedding Bar Mitzvah Bat Mitzvah and engagement. That's the name whatever but I asked her to make the cakes and her reputation spreads so that you became a pastry chef at one of the hotels in the Catskill Mountains and I wish I could I don't know the name of the hotel was my mother and I would visit her. This is her for about two weeks during the summer sun. I never paid attention as a kid and now I regret it. I would love to know I'm either all of Defense, but I still would love to know which hotel it was. I have no idea. I just know it wasn't the Catskills.

24:03 But there by she's supported all the children.

24:09 For educated everything worked out.

24:14 Set an 11 more about Eva Eva.

24:24 But she had a very happy childhood. I I mean, I just wasn't a door child, but as a teenager, she was very rebellious.

24:33 Aren't they all and I don't know that we fought because I want to talk to concentrate on her studies cuz I was away Studios. I love going to school for picture with students.

24:49 But her social life was the most important thing to her and she's been studying up and we fought about that, but she turned into the most marvellous adult monk ever ask for

25:04 And she went to the University of Oregon and Eugene have in a 5-year program and the 50 years. She could do art or design and she phoned me and I said to her what do you really want to do? And I said I'd love to paint for a year because I'll probably never have another chance of my life to paint for a whole year then do it and my dining room is surrounded by the paintings that she did that year.

25:35 And I love them.

25:37 I want to die with them surrounding you make

25:40 They're in the style of

25:43 I say a abstract expressionism, I think.

25:48 Very colorful forms

25:53 Of all sorts

25:55 I think that's phenomenal.

25:58 Anyway, subsequently, she went to persons in New York City and did an intensive year of design.

26:07 At that time they accept it maybe three students into that program. I don't know what it's like now and she did so well as the head of the department wanted her to stay on and do another a bachelor's in design and she said know if I'm going to stay in school, I want a masters and at that time they didn't offer a master's. Maybe they do now. Maybe they don't I don't know why she went on to the school of the Art Institute of Chicago and did an MFA there.

26:39 And she teaches design and typography at Diablo Valley College, which is near Walnut Creek and does freelance work as much as she wants.

26:55 I guess a lot of time to her boy who just turned 12th.

27:00 So I'm very pleased with her and she's the most devoted daughter. She comes once a week to take Albert out for lunch and brings us dinner a wonderful dinner that day.

27:14 And I look forward to that day so much.

27:18 That's really nice to have ya very devoted to help and she calls every day to ask how he's doing. And she I think she best daughter anyone could have I kind of Praise her enough.

27:35 So within two months after giving birth to her I just give her that I was pregnant here having wanted a child for so many years and the second was a total surprise to the state I do not know how he happened

27:51 And and his was a traumatic birth because we have the Rh factor incompatibility my husband and I and it was prior to the blocking antibody being available.

28:06 Sell my antibody titer was mounting very rapidly and very high and when you it could not be carry to term.

28:15 So he was delivered intentionally.

28:19 I'm not quite sure about the month and a half in advance and Juice flavor and that turned out to be too traumatic. They lost his heartbeat. And so it turned into an emergency cesarean. I will never forget that day belt rubber soles and everybody running around and

28:38 Lots of excitement

28:41 Thank God we were at a major medical center.

28:44 He had several total exchange transfusions. It was a bright orange color. Not a very handsome, but he's turned into a wonderful.

28:59 Nevermind, I think just turned I think 51.

29:04 And a delight

29:10 A very interesting thing another digression. I found a composition on our kitchen counter. I think you must have been in Middle School.

29:21 And it was titled. It was a title of the things that influenced me. Most of my life was written by a son.

29:31 And he must have intended it for us to read. Otherwise, why would have been left on the kitchen counter?

29:37 And I know I saved some someday somewhere. I will find it.

29:43 It was very revealing and if he discusses my husband's life and music.

29:50 And My Life and Science and said that both fascinating he wants to do both.

29:57 But he wants to do it and totally different ways. The amazing thing is he's done that.

30:05 He went to Stanford as an undergraduate.

30:08 Nature's in international relations that Stan Getz was artist-in-residence at Stanford for three of the four years Stephen was there.

30:18 And I think Stephen spent most of his time rapping with Stan Getz. He's a phenomenal tenor saxophonist and they became very good friends. Please be which play

30:33 So he formed the life and Jazz.

30:37 But then he went to chiropractic school.

30:42 And

30:44 Well along the first year of chiropractic school. He took the mcats did very well.

30:50 He said he would never do allopathic medicine. That's not what he wants. He wants him to. Of holistic medicine. He was admitted to his school of choice in osteopathic medicine. I think it's a name.

31:06 But then was enjoying his Chiropractic.

31:09 For so much that he stuck with it and didn't accept going. I think it was a mistake but to each his own he's happiest working out.

31:19 And in time he fell he now has a holistic health center where he does Chiropractic work and he has someone for massage and yoga have some other things and he's happy and he plays with various groups Jazz and other forms of music. So it's not classical music. It's not laboratory research. That means he did two different.

31:51 Applications of Science and music continue to pursue their passions, and I'm very happy about that.

32:03 Someone tries to their parents. I assume with the music and the Arts very much. So

32:10 So what's let's turn back to Albert's tell me what's been going on with him current day.

32:17 Will have Parkinson's disease and it was diagnosed in 2015, but I began to notice changes 2012. I thought I'm imagining things.

32:30 Like 2013. I knew I wasn't imagining things I mentioned it to her.

32:36 Family physician internist and he said yes, he too was noticing things but nobody knew what it was in 2015. It was diagnosed and Kathleen Poston has his neurologist and she's fantastic. I think the world of her and I like her as a human being

32:56 Ac2. She's an avid swimmer every morning and all that was he was very Spartan 6 a.m. Every morning. He would walk to schroth Method Campus Recreation Association to live on campus do many laps swimming walk back home change his clothes walk to the university to do a sling.

33:16 That's all that is gone now.

33:20 But he was very active both intellectually and physically.

33:25 And now he's split upon a rather steep decline lately.

33:30 Which I find very painful to take leave.

33:34 Cognition and memory has affected you mentioned. He was doing a lot of exercise is doing anything to keep him active and we

33:49 Come to dance for Parkinson's he come sometimes he's seated does a few things with his feet with the fans what they comes or not. I can I attend I love those glasses.

34:03 It's my lifeline and then dance for memory and now Tango. Oh God Wednesday afternoon side of it for Wednesday afternoons Argentinian Tango set up for Parkinson's and in the class. It's a small class. We have people with early-stage Parkinson's or spouses and I'm so grateful to spouses can take these classes because

34:29 I find his illness very depressing.

34:33 And I think the thing that gets me through is going to the dance classes I go in feeling down and it came out on a high but he keeps me going I'd come out so I can do it. I can do it. I can help him. I can be by your side. I can be of support I can do it. I can do it when I feel how am I going to see another day through but you have no idea what those classes do for me.

35:01 I'm I'm counting on God help me if they disappear. I think I'll just appear to.

35:07 Oh, yeah, where I know where we're happy to have these classes for that went to that Community. Yeah, there's tell me 87 years young as you started off with this interview here.

35:27 Tell me out of those 87 years. What is what has been your biggest regret?

35:32 I've wanted to in 1972 gave a lot of thought to my mother taking care of my mother for five years. My mother have died children for school age and I began to think how do I want to spend the rest of my professional life and I realized I really don't want to be in the laboratory anymore. They were exciting or interesting.

35:59 But I had moved in other directions, I think primarily because of the Influence of Music with Albert and the things we had to do he entered into Administration after the 10 years in Michigan. He was invited to chill the Department of State University of New York at Buffalo specifically to build Bridges between town and gown and that's another long story, but they were three fascinating years and I devoted three years of public relations unpaid.

36:35 And made a major personal investment than that and but he was so successful that broke out around he was invited by Stanford to come here after 3 years and build the music department. It was a small Department David loved his philosophy of theory on performance cooperating with each other performance and academic Theory musicology music history being supportive and some schools. They are competitive and so he's brought here to build and he did it wasn't given much support. He had to fight for everything but turned out he was a good fighter.

37:19 And he built the department. That is I believe it has International recognition.

37:26 And I'm very proud of him. I think he was phenomenal. I think he is phenomenal.

37:35 And I'll never forget.

37:38 All that he gave of himself.

37:41 And it paid off for the university for the university is aware of it or not, but that he got them with his efforts. He bought the LeBron Music Center. We did a lot of fundraising lots of functions again in our home used a lot of our own money to do that. It would take people on tours of the of the Knoll where the Health Department's crammed into the novel and the floors were caving in it was condemned by the fire department at that time. The whole thing has been renovated and is used for karma ccrma computer center for research in music and Acoustics house. They with the best of electronic equipment.

38:23 And

38:26 Ccrma would not be here. If not for Albert because University denied tenure.

38:33 To talk Don chowning its main person.

38:38 It's from the director and that happened before we came on the scene out. The team looked at the books past history and said the university has made a terrible mistake and he fought to have him brought back.

38:51 And I don't know of any other case where a 10 year was repurposed, but he fought and he explained to the powers-that-be the oppressed ministration that a terrible mistake have been done and he found out all the major people throughout the world with that specialty and have them write letters anyway in two years. He got John chowning tenure not only does tenure.

39:21 But they skipped associate professorship and made him a full professor in the following year gave him an endowed chair.

39:28 And the cops don't tell me was going to go off. I think he was being moved by University in Germany. So, would not have been here.

39:38 I'm very proud about it. I really am and he was a wonderful husband and a wonderful father. I think both of my children would agree and test of that both raised two, very bright passionate truly individuals and of my grandkids for each have one son Superkids. Thank you so much. You're very long time to show your stories today. We appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome.