Lynne Robinson and Genevieve Oswald

[00:00] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: Genevieve Oswald, 41 March 25, 2023 Taos, New Mexico Lynne Robinson mother Lynne Robinson.

[00:13] LYNNE ROBINSON: 69 March 25, 2023 Taos, New Mexico genevieve daughter.

[00:23] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: Hi, mom.

[00:24] LYNNE ROBINSON: Hi.

[00:25] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: So we're here at the Tufts Public library with StoryCorps, and I think it's important to say that I grew up here in Taos. And, of course, you're my mom, and you're Lynne Robinson, and you're the current editor of the Tempo in the Taos News, which is the local arts and cultural magazine. And why are we here to talk today, mom?

[00:51] LYNNE ROBINSON: Well, I think we were going to talk about you growing up here and being born here in Taos, specifically at the Harwood.

[01:02] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: How did we come to live at the Harwood?

[01:05] LYNNE ROBINSON: Well, there's a little story attached to that. Your father and I and your older sister, Angelica, had moved here from New York City for a time. We'd put out, we'd sublet our apartment in the village, and we'd come out here so that I could have a baby away from the city and spend some time away from the city. We were renting a house on Liebert street, and I woke up from a terrible dream one night that the house had collapsed in on the bedroom where your sister was sleeping at the time. I think she was about eight or nine months old. You two or 60 months apart, very close. But I woke up from that dream, and I was like, you know what? I'm finding a new place to live today. I'm out of here. And your father thought I was nuts. He said, well, we can't break the lease. And I said, watch me. And I went to work. I was working at Sam's shop on Bent street and sort of put an APB out that I was looking for a new place. And that afternoon, Robert saw Saltzman and Chaz Harrison came in and told me about the apartment available at the Harwood. So I went right over there, spoke to Bob Ellis, who was the director at the time, and he said, fine. And it was like $500 a month. He said he needed a down payment, a deposit, and one month's rent. And I went to the bank, got the money, came right back, and went back to the house and told your father we were moving. Now, a week later, on the front Page of the Taos News was a photograph of the house on Lebord street with the roof collapsed.

[02:49] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: So moving to the Harwood was good. That was good.

[02:53] LYNNE ROBINSON: Very good.

[02:54] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: So we're here in Taos, and I guess I'd like to know how we wound up in Taos.

[02:59] LYNNE ROBINSON: And you said your father.

[03:01] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: Yeah.

[03:03] LYNNE ROBINSON: Your father, I believe, had been going back and forth from Austin, Texas, to Taos during the late sixties and early seventies, where he'd been playing. He had a band called Sonny Boy and the Band of Joy. And the band included Kim Wilson and Jimmy Vaughan, who went on to form the fabulous Thunderbirds. Of course, Jimmy Vaughn was Stevie Ray Vaughan's brother. And somehow your dad found Taos and was back and forth here hanging out at the Mabel Duncan Dodge house, I think with Pepe Lashon and Lorelei Brown, Seth Brown, all the jewelers when Dennis had sublettered to them. Hot Dennis Hopper. And so he had a romantic, sentimental attachment to Taos. And when I met him in New York in the late seventies, I think, 79, your dad and I met Hentai. Our first conversation that we had, he mentioned Taos, which triggered me because I had heard of Taos once before in San Diego, where I'd lived with my first husband, your brother's father, for a time. And we worked at a radio station there. And I used to go down to the beach, ocean beach. And I'd shop at People's co op. And there was a homeless guy, I guess, who would hang out under the pier. And his name was Spacemandeh. And I remember when I was leaving San Diego, I went to say goodbye to spaceman because he used to talk to me. And I told him I was leaving. And he said, where are you going? And I told him I was going to Atlanta, which is where we were headed. And he said, that's fine, but you will end up in Taos, where they are waiting for you. And that was the first time I ever heard about Taos. He was kind of one of those sort of street profit guys. But that's how I heard about Taos.

[04:56] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: So, okay, so you're in Taos. Were you excited to be living in Taos?

[05:01] LYNNE ROBINSON: Well, you know, I arrived in Taos and of course it was very beautiful, but very different from now. There was nothing here. It was all just dirt roads, empty, empty spaces, beautiful starry, dark skies. It reminded me of where I'd grown up in the high felt of South Africa. And as much as I loved it geographically, and the beauty was extraordinary. There was another part that reminded me of being in the bush in South Africa, a million miles away from anything happening. And of course, I was still in my twenties. So this seemed to be a kind of a purgatory, in a way. Once you were born, I was ready to go back to New York. York City.

[05:48] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: Okay, so you're pregnant with me. We're living at the Harwood. Then.

[05:58] LYNNE ROBINSON: I decide I want to have you at home. I'd had two children. I'd had very easy births. Luckily found an amazing doctor practicing here in Dallas. His name was Junior. I can't remember his last name, but he was really, really a great guy. And he agreed to deliver you at home. He came with an oxygen machine and all kinds of contraptions and stuff, and he just told me. He said, you know, we'll hang out, we'll eat dinner, just do whatever you want. And so I took a long bath in the fantastic claw foot bathtub that was in that apartment at the Harwood. I think I spent hours in the bath. And then when you were starting to crown, we had a futon on the floor in front of a fire in that beautiful kiva fireplace. And that's where you were born. And your father helped junior deliver you.

[07:00] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: What was the day like?

[07:02] LYNNE ROBINSON: It was a cold autumn day, which is why we had a fire. It was a late September, but I remember it was cold. It was cold enough for a fire, for sure.

[07:13] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: Do you remember what was going through your head when you first saw me?

[07:19] LYNNE ROBINSON: I was just thrilled that my intuition had been correct about you being a girl. Your father, as you were being born, kept saying, come on, Matthew. He was sure you were a boy. But I already had a name because I knew I had a girl. And so I was thrilled to. And I looked at you, and you looked like a little squished prune. But I knew that you were just going to be a beautiful baby girl.

[07:49] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: I love that story. How dad thought I was going to be Matthew. He always says that's how he knew I had a sense of humor. How did you choose my name?

[08:00] LYNNE ROBINSON: Well, first, I first heard the name Genevieve as a young girl in South Africa, because there was a south african actress who'd gone to London. And then she came here, and she married John Phillips from the mamas and Papas, eventually. But she became quite famous in the sixties. Her name was Genevieve Waite, and I first heard the name from knowing about her. And the interesting thing is, after we went back to New York from. I was in Washington Square park one day with you and Angelica, and Genevieve Waite was there with her children, and we finally met in a park in New York City. I mean, life, you can't make these stories up. So that's where I heard the name. But then in Paris, Notre Dame, the statue of Genevieve, who was the patron saint of Paris, caused me to find out about Genevieve, who had saved Paris from invading Normans by pouring boiling oil over the approaching invaders. And I thought, you know, only a woman would be smart enough to figure out that the oil would just, like, knock these guys out and get rid of them immediately, because we spent hours in kitchens over hot pots of oil that burn us constantly. So I thought she was brave, brilliant, incredible. And I already liked the name. That's where your name came from.

[09:33] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: The Harwoods lived in Paris before they moved to Tass.

[09:36] LYNNE ROBINSON: They did. And before that, they were from Minneapolis, which is where your father's from.

[09:41] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: So I was meant to be born.

[09:42] LYNNE ROBINSON: In that area, I felt so. Bob Ellis told me at the time that he had found some indication that one other child had been born there in the thirties, but no records have ever been found. He had heard some rumor about that.

[10:01] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: Well, I still like to think I'm the only one.

[10:03] LYNNE ROBINSON: Well, unless they find any records, I think you're probably off.

[10:08] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: I mean, the house has been there. It was there a long time before I showed up.

[10:12] LYNNE ROBINSON: It was.

[10:14] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: So we lived there for a little while, then we went back to New York, and then a few years later, dad came back to Taos with us. And then you followed, and. And then what?

[10:27] LYNNE ROBINSON: Well, you know, your father came back to Taos, and you came with him. And I spent the next two and a half, three years back and forth from the city because I had a business in New York. I had a management company and a magazine. I worked in the music business, as you know. And it took a while to untangle all those affairs. And I came. When I came back, I called Bob Ellis, and I said, I'm thinking of moving back to Taos. And I wondered if any of those apartments at the Harwood are available? And if so, could you let me know? I'd even take a sublet. And a month later, he called me, and he said, your old apartment is coming up for a sublet for six months. And I wired him the money, and I was here three weeks later.

[11:14] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: I remember that. That was really. I have fond memories of that time. And was the library still downstairs?

[11:22] LYNNE ROBINSON: It was still the library. I think they were in a transition period, because I remember this library moving here. I think maybe 93.

[11:34] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: I think it was 96.

[11:35] LYNNE ROBINSON: Was it? So then it was there the whole time. I mean, I'm talking. I came back here at the end of 1990, and I was there for six months. So, yes, it was a library.

[11:45] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: So during iteration number one and number two, were there ever any complaints about the children living upstairs?

[11:52] LYNNE ROBINSON: We had the children's library downstairs, and Angelica loved to put on my shoes, especially high heeled shoes, and trot across the hardwood floors of this apartment. And I would constantly get calls from the librarians downstairs saying, could you please ask your children to be quiet? But it was her little tap, tap, tap with the heels.

[12:18] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: Do you have a favorite memory of that apartment?

[12:21] LYNNE ROBINSON: Oh, I have so many. It was such a beautiful space to live in. I mean, all those built ins and that little sunroom that I turned into a nursery for you girls. When I go there now to see Juniper and Shammai, it's changed so much. They've lowered the ceilings and they've done all kinds of things in there. But I still get that vibe, you know, oh, this is my home. It always feels like it's my home.

[12:48] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: So your favorite memory is not me being born there?

[12:51] LYNNE ROBINSON: My favorite memory is of you and your sister in that little room, playing with each other as little girls. I have such lovely memories of the two of you in that little sunroom and on the deck.

[13:10] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: I have a really nice memory of being in that sunroom. But it was snowing.

[13:15] LYNNE ROBINSON: Yeah.

[13:16] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: And you had just made us coco. And you read us the white queen.

[13:22] LYNNE ROBINSON: Or the Snow queen.

[13:25] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: That's a really nice memory.

[13:27] LYNNE ROBINSON: Yeah.

[13:28] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: From the second iteration.

[13:29] LYNNE ROBINSON: Sweet, sweet space, that room. Yeah.

[13:33] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: Well, do you have any questions for me, mom?

[13:37] LYNNE ROBINSON: I do. When you go to the Harwood, do you feel anything?

[13:44] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: I mean, other than I think it's, like, my special place in the world.

[13:49] LYNNE ROBINSON: You do?

[13:50] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: I do. And I know that it's other people's, too. But I was thinking about this earlier today. How many people really know the spot in the world where they were born and that it's not a hospital? And I'm so lucky in that. That place. I don't think anyone will probably live there again, but I've gotten to visit it again. I was just there a few weeks ago, and it always feels just like my place in the world. Home.

[14:20] LYNNE ROBINSON: I love that. And I always think that you brought me here to be born here, that somehow you directed the whole thing. And we're here, ultimately, because of you. You know, there was a lot involved around that period of time at the Harvard. Because when we moved in there, when I got that space about a week later, and I should backtrack now, when we left New York, when I left our apartment in the village, we walked out onto the street and there was a pink satin ribbon lying on the street. And I knew that it was something, and I picked it up like a good luck talisman. And I brought it with me. And a week after we moved, I had not been to the pueblo, but I felt I needed to go to the pueblo and kind of pay homage to the pueblo, because that's really why I had been given the safe place, went out there, knocked on the first blue door I walked. I knocked on the first blue door I came to. And this little old man came out of wearing the same colour pink ribbon in his braid. And I handed him the ribbon and he said, welcome home. Welcome home, my daughter. Come with me to the river. And he took me to the river to Rhoda's house, sat on the bench and did a blessing with tobacco to the four directions. Talked to me a little bit, asked where I'd come from. And I told him, you know, I was obviously quite pregnant. And then he said, you have to leave now. And I thought, well, I've just been here for five minutes. And he said, no, you've got to go now because you're walking. And by the time you get back to town, the sun's going to be setting, so you've got to get home before dark. And I always remembered how sweet that was, how he was looking out for us, you know. A couple of weeks later, I found a buffalo skull on the mesa in Carson. And I was trying to clean it outside the Harvard in the. In the yard, you know, the Harvard was on a tiny little dirt path and it was all residential down there at that time. These two Native Americans come walking up and the one guy says to me, can I buy that buffalo from you? And I said, no, it's not for sale. And he started telling me, well, you know, if you want to keep, you got to get rid of the maggots. And this is how you clean it. So I cleaned it. And a week or two later he came back and I said, I'm not selling my buffaloes to golden. I brought you a present. And he brought me a red hawk feather, former Buffalo skull. And that was Rhoda's brother, Tommy. And I met Rhoda years later and she became my best friend here. And we raised our kids together, which is how you got to spend a lot of time in your childhood at the pueblo.

[17:08] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: So lots of things happened at the Harwood. I was born there. We lived there two times. Buffalo skull met Tommy. What else? Anything else?

[17:22] LYNNE ROBINSON: Well, I think that connection to the pueblo is really powerful. And we know that Pueblo people built that building for the Harwoods, so there is a very deep connection between the two. And, I mean, you know, you must know that you had a unique opportunity to spend so much time as a child at that village. Maybe you can talk a little about that.

[17:51] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: Well, I mean, I don't know. I don't know if I have anything to say about that right now, other than everything about growing up here was unique. And from stories of being born at home to spending time in many different kinds of households, many different cultures, to continuing to live here as an adult and participating in the finer fabric of our community, like, this is a great place to be. I'm real glad you guys came here and then came back.

[18:34] LYNNE ROBINSON: I mean, you have really dug into this community. You know, you've participated in a lot. You ran for mayor. Yeah. You're on the housing and zoning commission. You're on the board of the TCA. I mean, you have very clearly made a point of giving back to your community over the years as well.

[18:59] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: A little like the Harwoods.

[19:00] LYNNE ROBINSON: A little like the Harwoods. And I think we should note that the Harwood centennial celebration is coming up, and you'll be emceeing that event, the big party.

[19:14] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: Yeah, that's my job.

[19:16] LYNNE ROBINSON: How exciting.

[19:17] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: Yeah, it's all full circle here. I'm so grateful that the Harwoods. That Lucy Harwood decided to donate that property. And learning more about her in the last few months as that centennial event approaches, and my relationship to it has been delightful, it's like a nice little additional addendum to the chapter of my life that is the Harwood, the start of my life. A footnote. Lucy Harwood was awesome, and that is a community center that has served so many people, from library to art space to birthing center. I mean, for one, maybe two, but.

[20:14] LYNNE ROBINSON: Excuse me.

[20:26] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: Do you remember what Angelica was doing when I was born?

[20:30] LYNNE ROBINSON: Yes. I had to send her on a walk with Shawn, our babysitter, because she was quite agitated by the fact that I couldn't give her a lot of attention. I was going into heavy labor. I was in and out of that bathtub, trying to give her the tension she needed, but I was also trying to breathe and into the contractions I was having. And, you know, it was not my first rodeo. You were my third child, so I knew what I was in for, and I knew it was. I had hoped that she could be there to experience the birth, but clearly that was not going to happen. So I asked Shawn to take her for a walk and take her maybe over to the Calems house, I think, to where Naomi and Noelle were. Who were my other babysitters. All those young teenage girls. So I think that's where they took Angelica and played with her until Sunny called and said you were born and she could come home.

[21:36] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: And then we were best friends for life.

[21:38] LYNNE ROBINSON: And you were best friends for life. She loved you right away.

[21:45] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: Thank you. It's been really fun to talk to you about this.

[21:50] LYNNE ROBINSON: It's been fun talking to you, too. Do you have any other questions?

[21:56] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: No, to you.

[22:00] LYNNE ROBINSON: Well, I mean, you know, you've travelled all over the world. You've seen a lot of places, been to a lot of countries. You returned. And this is where you've sent down roots. So clearly Taos is home, huh?

[22:16] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: Yeah. Well, I like to say, and I'm lucky, I have seen so much of the world and I have lived in places that weren't Taos. And I always come back to Taos. One because my family's here and my sister's here. Best friend for life. Brother, too. And also because Taos isn't like the rest of America. It's like another country inside America. We got a lot going on here, and it's dynamic and interesting, slow. And people care about each other. And that matters to me.

[22:56] LYNNE ROBINSON: Well, I'm happy that you got to be born here and grow up here.

[23:03] GENEVIEVE OSWALD: You know, I've always said if someone could. If I could choose where I die, I'd love to move back into that apartment and die there, too, standing up with a deep belly laugh, like a long time from now.